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Vizfizz
09-28-2006, 08:40 PM
Is it getting about time for another contest?

arketype
09-28-2006, 10:05 PM
Sure...
Do you have an idea in mind?

Vizfizz
09-29-2006, 01:31 AM
Well.. I'd like to offer a prize package again...but there are limitations on what we can do here on CGTalk without involving "sponsership" from an external company. If a company sponsers a competition, they must be CG Society members and they must be paying advertisers on the board. The other stipulation is that any "sponsered" competition must be open to all CGSociety members and we could not place limitations on what software package could be used.

In order to get around these rules, the CGSociety allowed me to hold an application specific competition, along with a prize, provided the prize was offered through me and wasn't vendor specific. (like seats of EI or plugins and so forth..thats a no no, and paying CGSociety vendors wouldn't be too happy about that.)

Last time I gave away an Star Wars Episode II leather crew jacket. However, I would like to up the anty a bit this time. Of course I'm only 1 man and as much as I like being generous, there are limitations to my resources. Its just that without a prize package, people just don't like making an effort.

So..any ideas? I suppose we could set up a paypal donation page. Any finances donated to the competition could be combined with my contribution and be directed towards some sort of specified prize package. As long as it was a donation and not a "fee" we could potentially generate a pretty reasonable sum for a very nice prize. Participants and non participants alike could donate. Its just a thought. In the last competition I almost gave away an iPod with the EP II jacket, but the competition failed to draw enough participants to warrent the additional prize.

We could open the floor upto users from outside packages, but would you EI users being willing to compete against LW, Maya, Max, or CD4 users?

Obviously, this is all in the discussion phase right now...I'm pretty open to ideas.

As for the subject matter of the competition, I have a lot of ideas. But I'll save those for later.

halfworld
09-29-2006, 08:04 AM
Yo,

Work has finally become sensible again, so I'm up for it....

I'll donate and compete against anyone!!

I would personally very much like to have models provided this time though :)
Ian

Vizfizz
09-29-2006, 05:17 PM
Well one of the things I was considering was team competitions. Small groups working together to complete an entry. Problem is of course, that makes the prize package a little more difficult. Its rather difficult to give iPods to 3 to 5 people let alone 1. But I think it could be really fun to see what could be produced in small groups.

mike33
09-29-2006, 05:52 PM
Brian,

I think the focus should remain on EIAS. CGTalk has other contests where the different software rendering and animation packages can show their strengths and differences.

If the goal is to get more EIAS users then I think a "big" prize would give people, who do not use EIAS, an incentive to try it out. I would suggest an effort by EITechnology and their Plugin associates to pitch in for a MAC or PC System with an EIAS Lic and associated plugins as a prize. A computer system would seem a small price to pay if they won over several new users.

If it's just a contest to show what EIAS can do then the prize could be much smaller.

I can see Ian's point of view about supplying models... though by having users make their own, it would show EIAS's ability to work with multiple modeling applications. One option is the EIAS forum could sponsor a modeling contest where the winners model would be used in the EIAS Challenge... that would open it up to a lot more people but makes the challenge a bit more involved(a minus?).

Questions for consideration...

What kind of time frame would the contest have? Would it include a still image or animation? Would EIAS plugin support be needed?

Well that's my 2 cents... Cheers,

~Mike

Vizfizz
09-29-2006, 07:43 PM
Hi Mike,

You have some good points and suggestions. I'll need to open discussions with EITG about actually sponsoring a contest. They're already CGSociety members because they had to approve of this particular forum to the CGSociety in order for me to start it. Any company on this website must "endorse" the forum leader. However, they are not currently paying advertisers on this board. If they would consider that, they could officially offer products, like seats of EIAS, as a part of a potential prize package. 3rd party vendors are also restricted because they are not paying advertisers either. Its also the reason why I can't include and Paralumino products as apart of the prize pacakge. Something to consider though...If EITG sponsors an official contest, the rules of the CGSociety prohibit the contest from being closed. All CGSociety members must be allowed to participate. The only reason why Project Phoenix, our last competition, was closed was because it was a personal prize not associated with any 3D product that I was giving away. So therefore, I had more controls on the "rules".

As far as other competition specifics goes, I'm open to ideas. Still frame competitions are usually easier to judge, while animation competitions usually require more time and overhead. As far as modeling goes, I would probably guess that would remain open and free. I don't agree with Ian, however, that models should be provided. Procedural, stock or "canned" models restricts the creative potential of the project and turns the competition into a competition focused entirely on rendering technique. (Not to mention that the CGSociety discourages the use of stock models in any original artwork) Besides, EIAS is more than that...and a display on how accomodating it is with any modeler is a good thing to show.

mike33
09-30-2006, 02:27 AM
As far as a topic goes I'd suggest something in the realm of maturity, a veteran, a wise or experienced entity, item or thing that has been in the world many years. It's not an old object or person or thing, but nor is it young. The theme could follow Project Phoenix, where EIAS was considered in a rebirth, but in the next contest it would be related to EIAS's years in the industry...

The opportunity this theme gives the contest is it's open to a broad interpretation, can cover many objects, people, places, and events. It also follows the film industries need to mimic reality... that worn look, that lack of newness... the everyday life happened here look...

In regards to being part of a team effort, that would be great except for the fact I don't have the experience with EIM or EIAS to be very efficient with the time I'll have to do any future contest, I think I'd hold others back.

TGIF,

Mike

Martin Kay
09-30-2006, 09:00 AM
What an odd, restrictive set of rules this forum has... As I see it, if EI wants to 'expand' it needs to be seen competeing with other 3d products. A competition just for EI users isn't going to have many entrants anyway. One good thing about the CG Society is that many of the contests or galleries of work aren't app specific.
What I'm saying is that unless EI is seen outside of this forum no-one will notice it. A competition neeeds to involve other software users.

Martin K

Vizfizz
09-30-2006, 06:07 PM
Martin..

Are you referring to this particular EI forum or to the CG Society contest rules as a whole? I tend to agree with the CGSociety. You can't hold a contest or competition unless its open and available to everyone. I also agree with sponsorship rules too. Unless you're a paying advertiser, its unfair to benefit on all the exposure your product gets from said competition when every other sponsor is paying to participate. Society competitions must also be highly planned and formally presented.

Project Phoenix, our last competition, was for EI users only. The only way I could do that was to offer a personal prize package myself. I conducted it entirely by myself and with the Society's permission provided it didn't give away software or 3D products from a specific vendor. We had a lot of visitors to this forum during the competition, but I agree that more exposure would happen if the contest wasn't closed. (up to a point) Hence the reason for my starting this thread. I'm attempting to find out if we should try for another private competition, or if I should attempt to arrange something bigger. If we go the route of something bigger, it means more coordination with the Society and if EITG wants to be a potential sponsor of the event, they'll have to start advertising here. Plus, EITG most likely wont be the only 3D program contributing to the prize package. Attempting to do so would show favoritism to one specific application.

Essentially, the bigger the competition gets, the more likely some other software vendor will "trump" EITG's prize with something better. Wouldn't be hard given EITG's limited resources. The other thing to realize is the Society wont allow for an open competition to be sponsored by a sole vendor. Again, favoritism. If EITG were to contribute the "grand" prize, I'm sure it would have to be a doozy.

We could do another Project Phoenix style competition if its organized and "sponsored" by individual CGSociety members rather than the vendors. We could probably offer a rather nice prize package if individuals were willing to "donate" to the cause. Obviously there can't be a fee to the competition because then that violates the rules of the Society as well. The system Ballastic Media has arranged in their formal competitions is quite elegant. Entrance to the competitions are basically free. Vendors get exposure thanks to the large draw these competitions produce, and Ballastic obtains rights to publish results in their Expose art books, which they turn around and sell to help fund their company and the Society. I think its brilliant.

If we wanted it to be open to all software packages it would basically have to be like this: "Compete in the XYZ competition, brought to you by the members of the EIAS forum". But even that gets tricky. The prize would have to be defined in advance, it couldn't be vendor specific, and any "donations" towards the prize would have to be anonymous and only applied towards the predefined prize package. It must be members helping members essentially. But even with that, this could potentially expand way beyond the little Project Phoenix competition and some discussions with the Society would have to be made if somehow we produced a prize more substantial than a leather jacket and an iPod.

As far as a starting time frame for a competition, it would probably be a little while...depending on the level of complexity we want to take it.

Martin Kay
09-30-2006, 06:55 PM
Martin..

Are you referring to this particular EI forum or to the CG Society contest rules as a whole?

Hi Brian, well I meant the Society as a whole, but I take your point. I'm not sure that donating a prize quite constitutes advertising, but rules are rules. Incidently I doubt that people enter 'competitions' just to get prizes- I think there's more subtle reasons, like prestige, ego, just a bit of fun, a challenge etc etc.

How about getting a group of users to enter some of the other challenges that come up on other forums. There's the Jeremy Birn Lighting challenges, a while ago there was a free for all on a kitchen set to see who could come up with what, as regards GI. Not only would the results be viewed here, but on the original forums as well. I already did a couple of lighting challenges using c4d, some time ago.

Martin K

arketype
10-01-2006, 03:49 AM
How about getting a group of users to enter some of the other challenges that come up on other forums. Martin K


This is a great idea- Let's get a bunch of EIAS users together to enter OTHER competitions. That would definately give EIAS more coverage. Especially if we placed high in the finals.

The Society's rules are obviously geared around the idea that these forums aren't about X software vs. z software, but about the artists, designers, and illustrators whos talent and ability create great imagery.

So, alternatively (without being too manipulative) how do we host a contest open to all, that helps show off EIAS? (that being the point of this forum).

Martin Kay
10-01-2006, 07:38 AM
This is a great idea- Let's get a bunch of EIAS users together to enter OTHER competitions. That would definately give EIAS more coverage. Especially if we placed high in the finals.

The Society's rules are obviously geared around the idea that these forums aren't about X software vs. z software, but about the artists, designers, and illustrators whos talent and ability create great imagery.

So, alternatively (without being too manipulative) how do we host a contest open to all, that helps show off EIAS? (that being the point of this forum).

Exactly! How about looking to see what other contests are running. The Lighting Challenge isn't exactly a contest, but has no time limit. This is the type of challenge to show off EI in its best light. One of the challenges is a small kitchen and is ideal I think to show of EI's GI capability.
Someone posted me yesterday re an image on my site- they had never heard of Electric Image...

Martin K

Vizfizz
10-01-2006, 08:19 AM
Well I know that the CGSociety will be offering a new challenge soon. Perhaps you'll wish to participate in that event. It should be an interesting one.

arketype
10-01-2006, 08:04 PM
Is there some way we can find to offer an incentive for EIAS users to enter these challenges? Basically an "unoffical" prize package coordinated and paid for by the users of this forum? Very much like Brian's idea of people contributing some amount, to help fund a prize? Could this prize be EIAS related (plugin, etc.)? The idea here is to organize this incentive "outside" of the general challenge contest to get EIAS users involved.

Is this even possible with the rules currently in place?

Martin Kay
10-01-2006, 08:46 PM
Is there some way we can find to offer an incentive for EIAS users to enter these challenges? Basically an "unoffical" prize package coordinated and paid for by the users of this forum? Very much like Brian's idea of people contributing some amount, to help fund a prize? Could this prize be EIAS related (plugin, etc.)? The idea here is to organize this incentive "outside" of the general challenge contest to get EIAS users involved.

Is this even possible with the rules currently in place?

Well if I entered a 'contest' it would be for the fun of it or the challenge or chance to learn something new... if I had the time. I don't do graphics for a living- its more of a second job on top of my main employment which has nothing to do with graphics, so I don't have too much time to mess with these things- wish I did have.

Martin K

Vizfizz
10-03-2006, 02:34 AM
Well gentlemen...it looks like we're going to have to put any EI contest ideas on hold for now. I've volunteered to be a judge on the next CG Challenge here on CGTalk. They're planning on posting the challenge details later today or tomorrow. I'm not at liberty to discuss them, however, I will say this next contest is right up EIAS' alley. Team efforts are also permitted! Of course you'll have to get past the jury first...then it hits the judges...but the prizes are pretty nice. You want to represent an EIAS team Martin? Put one together an be a team leader and do EIAS proud. You guys can make a strong EIAS statement.

halfworld
10-03-2006, 05:09 PM
Speaking of contests, VizDepot just announced a competition to model and render a lighthouse... Damn it! :)

I'm up for a team effort on a CGTalk comp.....
Ian

Vizfizz
10-03-2006, 05:18 PM
Well.. they should be announcing the contest rules today I believe...I was looking over the initial descriptions and it looks like there is going to be a video/animated portion to the contest in addition to the standard 2D and 3D still categories. Its the animated/video portion of the contest that supports team efforts. Still images are individuals only. I encourage everyone to participate.

Vizfizz
10-04-2006, 08:37 AM
Ok gentlemen...CG Challenge XX is out. Take a look at the rules and description and make your mark. Good luck. Show off what EIAS can do.

Martin Kay
10-04-2006, 10:38 AM
Crikey...this is a major and very ambitious undertaking.
First, and most important, I can't easily see what the deadline is, only that entries musn't be late.
Ambitious, because you're going to be 'competing' with the best out there and also because you need to get to read the book to get a handle on how to present and construct an image or short that 'drags you in' wanting more, wanting to know what its all about. In this world, saturated to the brim with sci fi imagery that's pretty difficult, especially if the 'book' is in reality no different from a score of other sci fi books. Already I'm thinking about the 'stone' in 2001 and the 'ring' thingy in the 'halo' game, plus a few other 'asteroid' movies.

In my view, the overall idea or concept or teaser is what will/ should 'win' this, provided its executed professionally. What I never get about these things is the WIP bit. If it's a 'competition' why share ideas or concepts for others to lift?
Ok, that was a rhetorical question...
Apart from the necessity to present professionally and convincingly, this is 110% about ideas.

Martin K

halfworld
10-04-2006, 10:45 AM
Well, I just browsed through this:
http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/eon/inspiration.php

All pretty nifty, seems like an epic undertaking as you say. I think I'll have to stick to the rendering challenges as I simply don't have time to contemplate something like that.

I hope someone else here does though :)
Ian

Reuben5150
10-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Depending on what the timeframe is for this, i might be up for a team effort for the video entry....

Reuben

mike33
10-04-2006, 02:36 PM
...

I agree with Martin about the story having similarities to other scifi novels. 'Rama' also comes to mind...

So, what to do, what to do...

~Mike

Vizfizz
10-04-2006, 05:49 PM
A lot of people have noted how Eon reminds them of Rama, but several have noted that after reading the book it possesses its own flair...so I guess I will need to read it too. Probably a good thing to do. :)

Something to consider for those interested in this particular challenge. This is the first time I've ever seen a specific, pre-existing, published storyline integrated into a competition. (at least on the web) Notes in the competition description state that several "important" people will be looking at this competition and I believe that. Since I do so much previs in Hollywood, they're taking a very familiar path towards positioning EON for actual film production. Of course I have no way to prove that. But basically the competition is doing exactly what my company does on a limited scale. Conceptualizing a script with visual images and animated story animatics. (The trailer competition is just an offshoot of that process) If you're interested in being "seen" in the film industry, this is a very good competition to do it with.

Vizfizz
10-07-2006, 12:16 AM
So is anybody gonna enter the EON competition?

Martin Kay
10-07-2006, 10:14 AM
So is anybody gonna enter the EON competition?

Well, I'm still learning the very basics of EI and comparing the GI to that in c4d. This is incredibly time consuming. Not come to any concrete conclusions yet, but possibly GI in EI is as fast as c4d (which utilises dual core processing).
So EI is potentially twice as fast as c4d?

Martin K

mike33
10-08-2006, 12:00 AM
So is anybody gonna enter the EON competition?

I bought the book Thursday and hope to finish it within two weeks.
Once I'm done I'll decide if there are parts or themes to it that interest me enough
to take a shot at the Challenge... Update: I finished the book Monday and decided
to pass on the challenge...

Another challenge of interest is the Peugeot Design Contest.
http://www.peugeot-concours-design.com/index_en.htm

I'm also working slowly on my 24 hour comic marathon story, though it won't be done this weekend or within 24 hours... I turned it into a 15-30 minute a day challenge with the goal to finish it no matter what. www.24hourcomics.com (http://www.24hourcomics.com)

Back to family time...

~Mike

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