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Andy1010
09-28-2006, 12:51 AM
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting to redesign my TV stations news graphics. I've been doing some research for the last week, and I've seen some amazin graphics from two companies that have inspired me.

Giant Octopus (http://forums.cgsociety.org/www.giantoctopus.com)www.giantoctopus.com (http://www.giantoctopus.com)

Renderon www.renderon.com (http://www.renderon.com)

Both of these companies are well known within the industry. I'm looking to do some similar graphics. My animation skill are pretty good, but when it comes to lighting and texturing. I need some help.

This is where you come in. How do I make a good looking glass material in Cinema? How do I make a good looking metal material in Cinema? Lastly, lighting scense like this seem to be a nightmare. Can you suggest how to use lighting setups for motion graphics? Lastly, How do I sweeten 3D renders in AE. Is multipass the best way? Thanks

Also if you have any other links for broadcast news stuff it would be greatly apperciated. Thanks

barrymcw
09-28-2006, 01:07 AM
Well, this is one big ole' question.

In terms of the material specific questions, I'd just do some searching around the web for shader tutorials. There are plenty around that address specific materials - glass, metal, etc. The Maxon website has a bunch of shader downloads that have been very useful to me, not that I've actually used them in projects (which is probably against the terms of the download but I'm not sure), but in terms of picking apart different people's textures. There's on set of 30-ish textures created for a contest on a Spanish C4d forum that is really great for poking around in.

Also, chrome and metal tutorials are all around the web. Check c4dcafe.com and 3dattack.net. I'm pretty sure each has some metal tuts.

Lighting rigs, yeah, that's a forum all to itself - and one area in which I am particularly weak. Still, do a search for rigging, it can be application-independent, meaning that a good Maya rig will teach you nearly as much as a good Cinema rig. Some names and procedues won't translate but the basic concepts will. For me, a lot of lighting is experimental.

I'll often set up a standard 3-point on the main object/title/whatever, then with additional lights, make good use of "light linking," meaning including and excluding objects from certain lights. Light linking is the single most useful thing I've ever learned in terms of lighting rigs (but I am a lighting lightweight, for sure).

Oh, and yeah, Multipass everything. Having the layered files really, really, really helps. Additionally, put in the time to learn how you can export object buffers, use external compositing tags, etc. The two app's integrate pretty darn well and you can easily set up one Cinema render and then use it to create a dozen "tune-in" animations in After Effects, where all you're changing is the type, or a clip, or whatever. There are tuts for this all over the web too. Ko Maruyama has a bunch of tut's that start to explain how to do this. Just search his name.

Is this any kind of answer at all? I'm not sure. I guess the main message is that all the answers you need are out there, you've just got to find them individually. Once you do that footwork, more specific questions will surely arise...and so it goes.

Good luck.

rsquires
09-28-2006, 02:15 AM
It is a big question but I can offer some suggestions, although barry has pretty much covered them I can re-iterate.

For good chrome for broadcast graphics try the Danel shader as a starting point. It has a gradient in it and by adding some extra darks and lights across the gradient you can get some pretty cool effects. Also chrome depends to a large extent on the environment it's in. Infact this is the single thing that makes chrome "Chromey". Spend your time on the environment or chose a good map and you are a long way down the track to good looking metal.

The great thing about C4D is that you can include or exclude lights from objects. This is really useful when you are doing logos etc. You can light the background different to the text elements. It is the broadcast designers friend.

Render in passes and use After Effects. Nothing ever comes out of a 3d program and looks any good without various passes being put together in my opinion.


As I said at the start it's a pretty big topic you're asking about, and I have been doing it for over 18 years and I am still learning.


regards

rich

govinda
09-28-2006, 03:53 AM
Christ, not Giant Octopus again. Step 1: Raise your standards. Go looking at better stuff, and I'm not saying the most crazy, youth-oriented stuff. I'm simply saying more compelling stuff that's less tired. Take a look at the Reels section at mograph.net and the 'Cream of the Crop' at motionographer.com. There are a lot of local TV people contributing at both places who know where to look for better inspiration.

barrymcw
09-28-2006, 04:35 AM
Hi Govinda,
didn't know you hung out on these boards too (I'm a mograph regular, lurker more than poster, however).

Cheers

ChrisCousins
09-28-2006, 07:00 AM
Howdy - just to add to the already excellent advice - the quality of a decent glass/chrome render is dictated by the environment you put it in. I've bought quite a lot from these guys:

http://www.sachform.de/index_EN.html

and use the maps all the time.
Cheers - Chris

Hi Everyone...

rsquires
09-28-2006, 10:06 AM
Howdy - just to add to the already excellent advice - the quality of a decent glass/chrome render is dictated by the environment you put it in. I've bought quite a lot from these guys:

http://www.sachform.de/index_EN.html

and use the maps all the time.
Cheers - Chris

Hi Chris

for studio type environments what do you use? The images seem to be largely outdoor shots. Some of the gallery images look great though so I'd be interested in what is your favourite. We all have one HDRI that we always use and I seem to always go for Paul Debevecs kitchen. Ha Ha.

Have you also used the stuff from Dosch?

regards

rich

nutriman
09-28-2006, 10:40 AM
when it comes to such things i usually disable specularity and just work with
reflection planes or visible area lights for nicer specularity effects.
also fresnel reflections look very nice in combination.
...well not that much but maybe helpful :)

ChrisCousins
09-28-2006, 12:09 PM
Hey Richard - to be honest, with studio setups I just make a nice gradient for the sky and use area lights - and if I have to I'll add a highly blurred environment map just for a bit of colour variation. The whole point of studio photography is to eliminate distracting reflections, shadows etc so I try to stay true to this in 3D studios too.

I've only used the Sachform maps until now, I'm sure the Dosch ones are also excellent, but I like the fact that Sachform have used EXR which keeps the file size nice and tidy (and the quality seems improved also). I've noticed that decent HDRs/EXRs whatever make getting clean radiosity renders much easier, with less artefacts and nice clean reflected highlights.

Plus that bloody kitchen is getting a bit too easy to spot!

I've bought three collections, they're not cheap, but I use them all the time.

Cheers - Chris

Hi Chris

for studio type environments what do you use? The images seem to be largely outdoor shots. Some of the gallery images look great though so I'd be interested in what is your favourite. We all have one HDRI that we always use and I seem to always go for Paul Debevecs kitchen. Ha Ha.

Have you also used the stuff from Dosch?

regards

rich

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