The Scar WIP - Emotive

[RalphDamiani]

First let me compliment you on this piece. It's one my favorites since I started visiting the wip forum an year ago. It has alot of soul and I can relate to the theme, very beautiful.

Regarding your concerns, I can't find anything wrong with the anatomy without altering your nice style. The leaves and drapes are also nice.

My only suggestion is regarding the lighting. Your light source seems to be located behind and above the character. While his face is fairly correct in this lighting scheme you might want to go overboard on the shadows there by toning down your ambient light and letting your light source create more dramatic shadowing. This makes the pain of your model more palpable as he gazes upon the viewer from a blanket of shadow while his body is bathed in light (the pain is still there). If you go for that scheme, notice that the hair, the blood, the drapes and the left arm might need lighting adjustments as well.

You could also tone down the image a few levels so it looks beautiful but not so heavenly.

Last and not least, I'm not sure what you're planning for the bottom, but if you add that purple, make sure you add it in other less logical places of the composition as a complementary colour in shadows and possibly some leaves. As is now it looks a little lost.

I made a quick paintover to illustrate my points, I hope you don't mind. I made the face look a little flat unintentionally but with a little more time it can look right. I'm running out of it today. :]

Hope this is helpful somehow and looking forward to save the finished painting on my hard disk. :thumbsup:

http://xs106.xs.to/xs106/06383/TheScar6X.jpg

[Pegahoul]

Hi Ralph, thank you so much on the feedback. Really appreciated.
You're right, the lighting was from behind and the face was indeed too bright than I had planned. (I don't mind the paintover).
As for the front red-purple things, I don't have a plan for that yet. My rough immagination was a cluster of blood red butterfly or bushes that serves as accesories to this pic (we'll think about that later)
I'll post the update tommorow. Thanks again.

[Pegahoul]

The lighting on the body on the first pic was wrong. I took a picture of myself in the morning and used it as reference. Here's the correct one (or at least near to).

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar7.jpg

I think I ruined this pic more than fixing it. Now it look really dark and ugly, but that's the real lighting... Oh this is gonna be hard... I already like the look on the first pic.. (hics hics)

I'll adjust the background next.

[RalphDamiani]

I don't think it's dark and ugly at all! It has more impact and emotion than your first image. =) But it's the artist and not the viewer that should be happy with the painting in first place. If you're not satisfied with your lighting, add another light source or change the position of your current one! If you like the face lit, perhaps pushing the light to the foreground a bit more will take you closer to what you imagined in first place.

[Cothull]

I like the face in shadow in the first image better. I think it fits the melancholy mood of the painting. But the anatomy of the arm looks much better in the second version! I like your attention to anatomy while still keeping a stylized feel to the figure.

[aldog]

I think that your latest lighting efforts look great and have a great mood.

I think the blood needs more realism, try using the burn and dodge tools to put some darker almost blackish colors in there

[Pegahoul]

Hi guys, thanks for the advices. Here's an update.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar9.jpg

I'm trying a new hairstyle, just for comparison (Actually because I was angry that I couldn't fix the face, so I change the hair. Although it's better now). Please tell me what do you think.

The face is still the same with the third pic. But if the first face gives melancholy feel better, I can still tweak it (I hope)

Now that the body's lighting right... please tell me, is it too hot? The first image got a cooler feel...

Need to adjust the BG as well... weee...

Thank you all ^^

[Pegahoul]

No reply yet?
Whatever. Here's the latest update:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar13.jpg

I think this is the closest thing to what I want in the first place. Already started polishing the face. Next is the hair (Gotta leave the face for some time before overworking it)
then the finger... (forgot to get a reference on that one. shoot..)

Not sure about the front plant and cobweb. Don't like it coz it obstructed the sheet, but I need foreground elements...

[Pegahoul]

aiyah... I forgot... I put the bar thingy on the background coz I imagined a greenhouse garden, but, that will probably be erased.

[Gisaiagami]

the scene is very nice
congrats

[RalphDamiani]

I'm not big on the cobwebs, they don't match your theme in my opinion.
Whatever happened to the purple and red flowers? They'd look great. Choose flower types that match the weigth of the scene such as orchids and violets for instance.

Anyway, great progress on the face, it looks far more realistic, as does the hair.

[LDiehl]

I really like this piece! His face is definitely my favorite portion so far.

I think the most glaring issue is the sheet he has draped around him, it just doesn't read to my eyes as cloth. It would really help, I think, if you got a sheet (or better yet a satin sheet) and draped it about a person (or similar sized object) arranged the folds and lighting just right and snapped a few references. The color of it kind of bugs me too, though I can't quite place my finger on it. I've love to see how it looks as a white sheet with a couple splatters of blood on it.

Another thought: for the bed, I want to see some kind of supporting structure. I think some carved dark brown wood at the end would be just the thing.

Keep up the good work! I look forward to updates :)

[Pegahoul]

Waaahh! Something bad happened! I accidentally save as a new version with the old one, and now the 'good hair' is gone. I tried to change the hair coz it look too dry (like he just woke up, well, he did just woke up, but still...)

...and my eyes hurt... all red and watery... hic hic... might take sometime befre next update...

RalphD, I'm not sure about the cobweb as well. the red and purple flowers add more color to the pic isn't it? I'll browse for flower reference. Thanks for the suggestions.

LDhiel, The sheet isn't done yet. I do have a reference back home. White sheet and blood spatter sounds cool ^^ I'll try it.

[LDiehl]

:hugs: I know the feeling, it is awful. It's part of the reason I always number up (a different file for each "step" in an image's progress. And also the reason I always have each step saved twice (one copy on each harddrive).

At least you still have the .jpg to go by in reclaiming your lost good hair.

[RalphDamiani]

<yoda mode> To Laura you listen. </yoda mode>

I always save different progression versions so I don't lose everything if Photoshop goes nuts on me. While Photoshop is a very reliable piece of software, it's a habit I got from working with 3d and those bloody unstable programs. I also excel at saving my files after I flatten them for preview, so the different files also come in handy. Otherwise it's a mess to get all those nice layers back.

[Pegahoul]

Hehe ^^ thanks for the tips.

I'm not really fond of that hair anyway. It's actually my own hair... so drawing them in this pic was kinda scary.

After that 'incident' I drew many type of hair and found myself in the beginnin, like the very first hair I draw and fit my imagination perfectly. Here it goes.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar17.jpg

And how's the sheet and the bed? Better? Satiny enough?

I tried to add a supporting structure for the bed, didn't really work for me. Also the orchid for forgeround elements are already drawn, but for now it didn't look good.

So those things are for later. My primary concern now is the one that will give me nightmare:

The all-bunch-of-leaves-and-maybe-trees background

My eyes cured. Already started on the background. Will be back with updates after your messages ^^.

[eishiya]

The sheets look great now. The folds on the shaded side are slightly unnatural (they look like thicker fabric than the rest of the sheet), though.

Painting lots of leaves can be a problem, but you must remember that you don't have to draw all of them. If you draw everything, it'll draw attention from the character and just look cluttered. I've seen many pictures with leafy backgrounds like that, it hurts the eyes. The area to the left of him, the areas around the yellow butterfly look great right now, I don't think they need more detail. Since everything above the blue butterfly is probably further away, you can pull a DOF trick of some sort and make things a bit more blurry. If you just add a few short tapering strokes to hide the round ones, you will have a sufficient illusion that you've drawn hundreds of leaves.

One more thing, I think the figure could benefit from a change in the lighting color from the left (our left) to something more greenish since to his left are leaves rather than flesh.

[Pegahoul]

About the BG, understood and applied, eishiya ^^ thanks. About that greenish hue on skin, I'm planning to add it later when the background is really-really sure (or when I'm tired with it ^^). Here's the current update:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar20.jpg

The image look much more colorful now, but a lot of this are still mix and match. Most of the background will be pushed back (means a bit blurry), maybe even the tree too, I don't know. Though I want at least one bushes at the left side of the charater to show some detail on the leaves (just simple detail, not overdone)

How about those flowers on the front (still trying)? Nice or nay? Different color maybe? The initial color was blood red... Did it stand out too much for the main character? The main focus is still supposed to be him and the scar.

though him and the scar isn't done yet... ^^

[Pegahoul]

Took a break for 4 days (bored) and... this is the latest update. If all looks good all I have to do is detailing (ouch). I'm kinda loose patience (a bit) since this one has taken too long.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScar28.jpg

I took off the berries from previous pic, and gave a bigger bush instead (easier to draw, although lack color). I also finally decided to push the tree to the background.

This has taken too long coz I couldn't decide how the background looks. Sheesh...

Feedback please?

[LDiehl]

First off, I like what you've done in your latest version of the background. I also think that the front flowers give you more depth. Two small things: the sheet seems too stiff at the top and the full-on butterfly to the right of his head has a rather cartoony outline.

My main concern at the moment is the color-scheme. The problem is I find this really hard to critique (as in my own work it just -happens-). I guess the most glaring thing is the bright and saturated colors of the foreground flowers that take away from the guy (who I suspect is your focal point).

I feel like the light should have a temperature. Is it warm spring/summer sunlight or cool light of a fall morning?

I just spent a few minutes doing a little "paint-over" in Photoshop, using mostly color layers to give you an idea of one of the many possibilities. This is obviously taking the very saturated approach, and exaggerated for the sake of example. I think you could also take it the other way, to nearly monochrome with perhaps a few splashes of color in the center around the blood and his face (but I am not as good at that).

Hope you get something helpful from this... Keep at it! :)

http://www.ldiehl.com/misc/TheScar28_paintover.jpg

[Pegahoul]

.... Fancy... ^^

About color scheme, when I first imagine it, it was blood red on the foreground (angst mood) and blue in the background (sadness mood). But after I took reference photos, those colors are forgotten and they became realistic ^^

Anddd... it's pretty hard to change now that it's near completion... I usually choose my color scheme first thing and never change it, but thanks for the suggestion, Laura.

About temperature, at first I imagined it would be cool morning, but I guess I was influenced by my country's temperature... (I look directly out my window for reference... ^^).. so now it look hot...

I'm not sure what I want. This is one of those "let's go along and see what happen then" pic.

But essentially, it should be cool morning... maybe rather wet (the leaves now still look dry and the color pretty warm...)

I do think those flowers too saturated. Will be fixed

-----
Current hair detail:
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/scarhairdetailbegin.jpg

(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/scarhairdetailbegin.jpg)

[LDiehl]

Peter: Love the close-up of his face. Obviously what you chose to do with the colors is your decision. If you do have Photoshop (or another program with the "color" layer blending mode) it is not too late to change your color scheme, without having to touch your previously painted forms. I do urge you to think about color and light a bit more, experiment on a copy of the image! I just feel that the colors you have now are holding this image back from what it could be. But only you know the image in your head -might help to be clear on it though ;)

[Pegahoul]

Grin, I guess I forgot that I work in computer ^^ (that happens sometimes). I'll try it. I do think that the image lack... something. Currently I feel that the mood isn't quite right. I'll tweak it some.

In the mean time, I'm confused about my next pic: Winter Prince.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/IcePrince7b.jpg http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/IcePrince7s.jpg
Which one? At first I made the bird big, but then I realized maybe it's too big to be held by one finger. But then if I make it small, it look weird to me since my plan is for the prince to hold the bird close to his mouth in a cute, affectionate kind of way.
When he held the 'small bird' like that, it seems he's half-hearted (or thinking twice). Should I change the arm to make it closer to his mouth (Please don't... those fingers a pain... but if I have to...)

[LDiehl]

Peter: With me it happens the other way around. I'll be oil painting something, make a mistake and fumble around for the "undo" button until I realize "real life" doesn't have one >_<

I do look forward to whatever tweaking you plan to do on your last image.


As for the new image: First off, birds are very light creatures (they almost feel like they are made of air in a way). Especially the berry/seed eating types (as opposed to birds of prey -heh I don't know any of the proper terminology)... Meaning the weight of your large bird wouldn't be a problem on his finger.

My main concern so-far is with the static composition. It just feels very flat at the moment. Are those snow-covered trees in the background? You might want to think about again having something in the foreground, middle ground, and background. Also, give thought to your focal point and how you will go about creating visual interest in currently "plain" items such as his costume and the bird (you might want to try your hand a creating a fictive snow bird of some kind). Also, movement could be created even with this still pose; if you had his clothes and hair stirred by a chilly wind.

Think about the relationship between the guy and the bird. It will really help to know what they are doing. Is he was sheltering the bird from the wind? Talking to the bird with his mind-power? Trying to lull the bird into complacency so he can cage it? Something else?

I look forward to updates. :)

[Damselfly]

I like the concept of the new painting. As far as the bird goes ... I might be mistaken, but it looks like you've painted a female northern cardinal(?). If that's the case and you're shooting for accuracy, the smaller bird is more accurate in size. If you don't want to repaint the arm, you could always turn the larger bird into a Stellers Jay by painting it blue and black (might ruin your colour scheme though). :D And Laura's right ... birds are practically weightless so the larger bird would not weigh down his finger.

[LothIssen]

HI, the sscar pic looks really cool, the face is brilliant, but the plants at the front seem too distracting, their brightness seems to distract from the figure, apart from that it's amazing work!

[Pegahoul]

I don't even know what that bird is ^^. Just imagebanked it coz I want a pretty realistic looking bird. As for the image, kinda static huh? Afraid so. I think I'll have a wind from right to left to play on his hair and feather, and slightly on his clothes, but not too much. There's nothing I can do about the pose, since I first imagined it would be like a portrait instead of a scene.

The background is indeed a forest, but it will be blurry. Foreground elements: maybe I'll add some snow covered branches/twig, maybe even some more birds on that twig if I have time. I don't know.

Relationship with the bird: His reminder of the warm outside world, which he secretly miss but also afraid of. He's wondering if he should leave his snowy shelter, the world of his own. I won't change the bird, but I'll make his eyes looking to the bird for focal point. So I guess that's the scene and story.

Back to the main pic ^^. First tweak, overall green. How is it looking? It looks much fresher in my comp, and all I need is to add some morning dew on the foreground flower to get that wet, cool morning look... and maybe adjust the flower color more.
Q: Does the morning light fits? Since it was warmer on the previous pics.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScargreen.jpg

[jmBoekestein]

Hey this looks nice :). I think looking at how you rendered the cloth you should go for a soft pastel feel on some brighter parts and scruffy fun shapes in the darker. You could also add more variations in colour to give more depth and complexity. for instance where the bright light is some hints and whisps of blue's. nad maybe in the shadows too :).

[Pegahoul]

Sorry for leaving "The Scar" behind :D but I want to finish this "Winter Prince" for contest in DA before the end of the month. I'll be back working on The Scar once this is done. It will be quick.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/WinterPrincealt11.jpg

:sad: Hate it when i keep changing minds halfway through a pic, but this version of Winter Prince looks much much better than the previous. I wasn't satisfied with the first version in many ways. Any crits?

[eishiya]

This does look better. I think the hands are too small and the fingers are too similar in length. I think the eyes are slightly too big, as well.
I really like the colors, though. I've never had much luck with blues.

[Pegahoul]

Thanks Eishiya, about small hands and fingers, and big eyes... for me it's a trait of cuteness in this pic. I like the eyes as it is, but I'll check on the fingers again ^^

[Pegahoul]

I'm back.
Winter Prince is done, and already posted here: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3973639#post3973639

Back to The Scar. I cropped the lower part because it's unnecessary and the bed look more like a box before. Darkened the bushes to bring out the face. Rearrange the foreground flowers...
Geez... I want to finish this fast. Compositing this pic has gone past annoying.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScargreen7.jpg

[Pegahoul]

Hi. Here's the next update. I've polished some things up.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScargreencon.jpg
Question 1: Compare this one to the previous. I've heightened the contrast around his eyes and hair, coz when I view from afar, I almost couldn't see anything in his face. But is it a good thing? The last time I double the contrast like this, the image look less realistic...

Question 2:Is there something wrong with the dark part of the bed or the sheet? I feel it still off from the background and foreground

I'll be moving on to detailing. Thank you.

[Pegahoul]

Hi everyone, here's the latest update
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScarcompletionfine.jpg

and the close ups
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScarcloseuphead.jpg
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a288/pegahoul/TheScarcloseupflower.jpg

I don't know when to call this pic done. Maybe it's already done a while ago, coz all I do now is running back and forth... fixing what's already fixed to make it look better... trying to see if I miss anything.

Am I being overly perfectionist for a pic that should've been simple? This pic has turned to be a practice pic, one I can come back to and polish more like it's eternally unfinished...

[LDiehl]

I'd say call it quits and move on :) It looks good the way it is!

[Pegahoul]

Wahaha! That was fast! Thank you! Somebody has said it!
Actually I already moved on, just didn't dare to leave this behind ^^. I'll just tweak and tweak it again if I feel like it or if I don't have much to do, but maybe now I can call this WIP thread finished ^^

[Shadowbrooke]

Hi,

I love the pink orchid, it's so beautiful. I'd agree that this looks finished. I'm glad you actually finished it because you were working on "Winter Prince". Nice work!

And thank you for the wonderful crits on my new work. Looking forward to see more works from you too.

Take care,
Brooke.

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