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Ghostscape
09-13-2006, 08:57 PM
So I'm working on bolstering my portfolio's next gen content and I'm making a slightly futuristic (50-100 years or so) desert scene. The basic idea is a portable front line/base camp, and one of the more detailed models is going to be a foldup turret/AA gun. The whole thing compacts to about a 6x6x10 space, but then unfolds for deployment and has collapsing legs to allow it to walk to a position before plopping itself down.

Here's what I have so far for the high poly model:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/3628/iwanttorollwithnl7.jpg
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/6278/thegangstershe3.jpg

The second image shows it both walking and deployed, when in actuality it would deploy when sitting and walk when folded up :D

Obviously I haven't gone and detailed things yet, right now I'm just working on getting the basic shape down and brushing up on my hard-body subdivision modelling skills.

WesleyTack
09-13-2006, 09:37 PM
Nice start, my one crit would be... the way you designed it, it can only walk in straight lines, not turn left nor right.. so i guess it would be flawed in combat pretty fast :)

RuinedMessiah
09-13-2006, 09:46 PM
For something like an AA gun or something with a huge amount of pressure applied when firing, you would really want to look over a quadrapedal design. As it stands right now, this thing is a liability in a battle. Also, since it is going to be a desert scene and this thing will obviously be very heavy, you'll want to redesign the feet. Otherwise this thing will sink like a very expensive rock.

Ghostscape
09-13-2006, 10:10 PM
For something like an AA gun or something with a huge amount of pressure applied when firing, you would really want to look over a quadrapedal design. As it stands right now, this thing is a liability in a battle. Also, since it is going to be a desert scene and this thing will obviously be very heavy, you'll want to redesign the feet. Otherwise this thing will sink like a very expensive rock.
It's actually designed to sit down when opening up and firing, the bipedal walking is only used for getting from place to place. My second picture is just it fully opened, for both walking and firing, but it's only designed to do one at a time. It's a little hard to see but the feet actually are wider than the legs and almost meet in the middle, so the overall surface area of each is larger than would appear.

Nice start, my one crit would be... the way you designed it, it can only walk in straight lines, not turn left nor right.. so i guess it would be flawed in combat pretty fast :)
D'oh! I knew I had screwed up a join. I have the turret pivot on top of the "hip" platform that will act as a hip pivot,, but I need to put in ball joints for the legs or else it won't be able to turn :)

Ghostscape
09-15-2006, 02:02 AM
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6094/whatupyofaceax2.jpg
Finished setting up the gun assembly. I'll probably do a second version with different weapons.

Also, right now this is just me massing in forms and such, I'll be putting a LOT more detail into this once I mass out the seat/controls a bit more.

Any other comments on the design would be nice.

The way the gun works is the whole assembly folds out 90 degrees, the guns flip out and lock into place, and then the ammo box rotates back down. The ammo box itself actually can be slid off it's rail to reload.

Ghostscape
09-19-2006, 07:34 AM
Started Detailing things
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1195/starteddetailingmd8.jpg

Ghostscape
09-20-2006, 06:51 PM
Increased the size of the front armor plate, changed up the detailing style.
edit: I removed the image because it was huge and I have since made updates.

tin-tin
09-20-2006, 08:15 PM
Some variation in design would help, at the moment its very box like. I like it so far though.

Confracto
09-20-2006, 11:31 PM
looks neat
but I agree, it does look boxy

I also think it could use a few things. First off, I'd hate to go into battle in that, only to get shot at from the side. the pilot is gonna need SOME protection, otherwise change the front plate into something he could see though/around.
Second, where's the power source? It looks very thin and small, and no room for any kind of engine or fuel. Third, I'd give him some toes or something to his feet, and maybe a radar dish or some sensors or something.

good work tho, can't wait to see more!

Ghostscape
09-20-2006, 11:57 PM
The tubes on the front are supposed to be sensors allowing the pilot to see targets, but it isn't obvious right now - I'll need to change that.

The engine is actually going to fit between it's legs, I was working on that right now, but Max crashed, and I reopened Max to load up the autoback, but my dog was barking, and I walked her first, and now my autobacks are all saved over with empty files :(

Confracto
09-21-2006, 05:30 PM
gah! I hate it when that happens!!

Ghostscape
09-26-2006, 12:22 AM
Unless anyone has any crits / suggestions I'm calling the highpoly model done.
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6559/frontyz7.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3687/backtf7.jpg

Volvolus
09-26-2006, 01:30 AM
Minor point: Perhaps a couple of your viewing scopes at the very top of the rear surface of the operator's shield, or on the rear of the hips, for monitoring behind while running forward.

It looks GREAT! It's come along well from what you posted first up.

Best wishes.

Ghostscape
09-26-2006, 01:57 AM
Good point on the cameras for the rear. I'll add those before working on the low poly.

Gamedev
09-26-2006, 02:12 AM
can we get a wire?

Ghostscape
09-26-2006, 02:26 AM
can we get a wire?
It's messy as hell but sure:

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3730/frontwirebn1.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2765/backwirekb8.jpg

Gamedev
09-26-2006, 02:33 AM
I was just interested in how you were modeling out all those fine details. Are they originating from poly insets? For exmaple, those those two circles on the back connected by a flat rod piece. How did you integrate those into the geometry?

WesleyTack
09-26-2006, 02:34 AM
Thats looking really cool, i'll watch closely to see how this gets made and hope to learn from it! :)

Ghostscape
09-26-2006, 02:48 AM
I was just interested in how you were modeling out all those fine details. Are they originating from poly insets? For exmaple, those those two circles on the back connected by a flat rod piece. How did you integrate those into the geometry?

Through the miracle of Floating geometry.

Since this is a high poly I'm using to generate the low poly from, a lot of the details, especially insets, are actually floating above the surface.

To get things to merge nicely with a surface, I simply expand a ring around the detail that is facing the same way as the surface below it (so the normals will be the same)

There is a lot of good information at:
http://www.iddevnet.com/quake4/ArtReference_CreatingModels
On making normal maps, and it has pictures illustrating the basics of floating geometry.

Once you do a couple of normal mapped objects you'll realize that it isn't really about creating a high poly object but about faking everything to hell. It makes it a bit faster to make things which is nice, but it also means that if you make a normal mapping model like this and then you get told to turn it into a cinematic asset or whatever, you've got a lot of work to do, which I guess illustrates the importance of planning :D

Gamedev
09-26-2006, 03:24 AM
touche! I suspected that might be the case. Well done either way.

Ghostscape
09-26-2006, 04:38 AM
I've modelled all the indents and stuff into a high poly before and it really is a giant pain in the ass.

SubD modelling can suck a fat one :D Especially when you're trying to keep lots of nice corners.

WesleyTack
09-26-2006, 09:16 AM
thanks for the tip on the floating geometry!
i'll surely be able to use it on my truck

tin-tin
09-27-2006, 02:05 AM
Ghostscape, thats looking nice, good going with those floating stuff, you got a target polycount for your lowpoly.

Ghostscape
09-27-2006, 04:38 AM
Probably 8,000.

Orestes11
09-28-2006, 01:28 AM
I wasn't going to crit this but now that I see the wires I'll give it a go. The floating geometry idea is pretty sweet. That was a definately a good read.

I think overall the design could be a bit more interesting. Right now it just seems like a lot of primitives thrown together and seems really boxy and a but unfunctional (just an opinion, it's your design). Also to, as was also mentioned I would look into developing some sort of side protection for the user because right now it's pretty unprotected. Maybe beef up the controls a bit as well since they seem pretty out of proportion to the rest of the model. They look like they would break if a midget was using them :) I would also think about adding some sort of foot rest in there so the operator's feet aren't just dangling like in your previous screenshots

I think that even though you're using a lot of floating geometry to get your high res model put togther you should take a look at the geometry that you do have "cut in". Right now all your edges are rather soft and nothing is very crisp when it's smoothed which is causing some areas to shade rather odd (ie, the circles that you have cut in around the center pivot point. Either way it's a decent start. I would look into that stuff before you spend too much time getting your low res fleshed out.

RuinedMessiah
09-29-2006, 06:26 PM
I'll chime back in with some points that I previously mentioned just because I haven't seen them addressed but you sig asks for hard critiques.

This design, as it stands right now, looks imbalanced and fragile. Someone mentioned side paneling and, given the purpose of this unit, I don't feel that would be the best solution. The problem, as it stands to me anyway, is that you have a large amount of weight on top and a fairly "shrimpy" support system for it all. I also mentioned long ago how this thing would fall over. It NEEDS wider feet. I know it has the internal space but do yourself a favor. Stand up, look down, and notice how your feet are built. If you notice, the weight bearing aspect of the human foot is on the inside and the balancing portion is on the outside. I hate to point towards these but your design needs some revisions on the lower half.

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Star-Wars_AT-ST-diecast.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/29/46403227_57d35d169b_m.jpg
http://www.jeffbots.com/ed_209-2.jpg

I threw in Ed-209 just because the big gag with him was how unbalanced his design was. For some reason, your support system strikes me as an Ed. It seems like this thing would be excessively vulnerable when moving, to the point of becoming a liability. Also, when it's sitting, there doesn't seem to be much support to prevent tipping over just in case it is hit.

I know it's hard to fall in love with a design just to change something about it drastically and that's part of the cost of producing believable CG. My suggestion is to convince yourself something is wrong with the leg design and download some videos/tech manuals to see how other people have tackled this concept. And no, I don't mean checking my own walking turrent because mine was designed as a bit of a joke. Like "hah, look at the crab legged liability."

The top half is fine. In fact, I'd even go more extreme and have a glass style paneling with various HUDs on it. That is how the design looks to me. Especially considering all of your camera seem to be placed in the blast shield and yet no gun mounted cameras exist as far as I can see.

-KDX-
09-29-2006, 07:06 PM
Everyone agrees this is a fantastic model, but it seems most everyone is also agreeing there is some design flaw. In order for this to be a believeable machine, I think you could make 2 EASY adjustments to the design which wouldn't compromise too much of your original concept...1 is to increase the surface area on the "foot" by having some side support...just a simple 3-4 foot section jutting out would sufice and also look good. And 2, make the joints have a swivel action. You could add this in by adding either a "ball" type joint or making a secondary pivot which goes side-to-side as well as front-to-back. If you are not following what I mean by that, I could technically draw it out...

last thing...if you insist on keeping the skinny legs, I would at least spread them out some so they have a wider base footprint because as it is now, a good push from either side would knock this guy over.

anyways, again...good model. Very cool idea the design just needs a bit of work is all. =)

-KDX-

seedo
10-17-2006, 10:27 PM
i think its nice, but am sure the texturing will make it look better

Ghostscape
10-24-2006, 09:31 PM
not done with the texture yet, and some of the photoshopped normals are putting up a fight at the moment. I need to orange up some other bits, too.
http://img319.imageshack.us/img319/9044/checkxx6.jpg

nicewolfz
10-31-2006, 12:40 PM
This is my first post, so here it goes...

I really like the modeling I think there a few poly's you could discard without loosing shape though. Your textures are coming along good, the colors are a good pick, but as for the scratches on it, if you use different width and shape brushes it will give a more realistic look and less of a photoshop look. Keep up the good work I really like the design and I think that's something alot of people ignore. Can't wait to see the finished product.

nicewolfz
10-31-2006, 01:08 PM
Never mind the comment on the poly's after reviewing, it's very clean my mistake! sorry.. But I wanted to add, I'm not sure I agree with the comments about the design flaws, that is what I think makes it good, as you said before it can't do everything at once, which doesn't make it a super machine, which is great, most people try to make the ultimate flawless machine, yours isn't, which makes it original. Good job.

BadSpleen
11-14-2006, 06:09 PM
First of all I was wondering what style you're going for ?

In my opinion it just looks too clean, with all the perfect cylinders and box's, it just doesn't look like it could walk if it was real. I'd take a look at some of the early walking machines the japaneze made (possibly HONDA), and add lots of wires and cables, as these will show that the machine could be in the real world.

This is mainly due to the fact that some details you've added are purely to fill in large areas of otherwise blank spaces, without considering what the details do ? Such as the back of the chair has two cylinders connected by a block, but what do they do ?

It looks kid of like something from Total Recall, kind of like its made from painted wood. Other than that its great modelling, and nice textures.

Chilli

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