Thinking about converting to wings...

[dAfTiE]

Hey there :)
I'm also a C4D user,and I use Wings for most of my poly modeling.
Just the fact that it has ngon support,and is REALLY focused on one task,namely poly modeling,
I find it much quicker to work in,and thus a perfect companion to Cinema.
As for the .obj thing,I've never had a problem.
You just have to remember to tesselate your models to quads before exporting,
and you need to reverse the normals after import.
Other than that I've really haven't had any issues with exporting at all.
Good luck with Wings! :)

[BazC]

I'd totally agree, Cinema is a great programme and easy to use but I really don't like it for poly modelling. It just imposes too many restrictions, when I tried it, it felt as though I spent as much time removing edges that the app added as actually modelling. The only restriction Wings imposes is that your model has to be a solid, otherwise pretty much anything goes.
Obj export to other apps is fine, you shoudn't have any problems, but sometimes obj import FROM other apps can cause problems. I've heard of difficulties in importing from Lightwave and Maya. It seems that sometimes Wings interprets the file so that every poly is a seperate obj! Not good. Having said that I've imported from Lightwave without problems and I'm sure if this aspect of the prog can be sorted out Bjorn will do so. In practise though you'll mainly be moving models from Wings to Cinema so it's not that big a deal. You're gonna LOVE Wings!

Baz

[Jhonus]

Originally posted by BazC
Obj export to other apps is fine, you shoudn't have any problems, but sometimes obj import FROM other apps can cause problems. I've heard of difficulties in importing from Lightwave and Maya. It seems that sometimes Wings interprets the file so that every poly is a seperate obj! Not good.

Yeah, i had that problem with maya... it was caused by some faces hanging off a 'closed face' model.

but yeah try it out... its free and all. :beer:

[dAfTiE]

Only prob I've had exporting from C4D to wings have been forgetting to flip the normals before export,
and getting "front face" culling in wings. Hardly ever do that anymore tho :)

[BazC]

dAfTiE, you can always flip the normals in Wings - Body menu - invert.

Baz

[markyjerky]

I reject the question ... even though Adrian is my friend. Seems like he wants to say something more but is not saying it. LOL.

Adrian ... have you had trouble with OBJ exports in general ?

Have you heard something in particular about Wings3D Obj export ?

Wings3D OBJ export seems sufficient in its compatibility with other programs and workflows. I hope it will work well for you.

[That Adrian Guy]

I'll post something later on tonight. Getting used to the wings workflow is kind of annoying actually, but It's clear that this is a powerful program.

I feel so much like a traitor to Cinema 4D! (then again... R8 has edge extrudes.... hmmm.....)

Wings clearly has the friendliest price tag

[That Adrian Guy]

Here's what I have so far.

I don't think I like the wings workflow yet... hopefully I adjust in a couple more hours......!

C&C is more than welcome.

[wasamonkey]

ya when I started using wings I was used to a click and drag system
if you wanted a bigger selection you would hold down a modifier key and if you just selected something the old selection was cleared
but after a while I realized that it was accually faster
and with hotkeys for your most used tools (when it came to wings) found it even faster

the method only seems slow until you get used to it

[Lunatique]

Hey, how do you fix the obj import problem from maya? I have the same problem.

[BazC]

I'm not sure you can fix it yet. Someone mentioned a "make solid" plugin for Truespace which might work, otherwise I think we have to wait on Bjorn.

Baz

[wasamonkey]

ok here is what I have seen and beleive to be true

alot of 3d apps especially non solid modelers draw double sided faces
when these double sided faces exist in a mesh that mesh is made into a group
when i downloaded some lw models in obj format I found some of them were perfect without any glitches
others half the faces normals pointed inward

so if bjorn were to fix the problem generated by these other programs not handling geometry correctly
he would have to determin what is the correct normal and weld all the verts

but since the programs can export the models correctly also
this opens the question is the artist the one doing funky stuff while building

[BazC]

Wasamonkey, if that's the case it should be easy to test. All you need is a model that is causing problems, take it into an app that will let you align normals and try importing to Wings again. Anyone got a problem model out there?
If it proves to be true all we need is an option to align normals on import, shouldn't be too hard should it?

Baz

[Jhonus]

Originally posted by Lunatique
Hey, how do you fix the obj import problem from maya? I have the same problem.

Are you talking about the split vertice problem? If so...

"A solid consists of faces which form a closed volume."

I think the problem occurs when Wings3d is unable to create a closed volume from your geometry.

In my case it was bascially caused by having a face attached to the side of a closed volume. Just delete that face before you export from maya to obj format. That is if you actually have this problem.:beer:

[ilasolomon]

importing from maya's obj or max' 3ds to wings3d, same problem, spilited vertices, how to fix?! nobody?!

[Lunatique]

I have all of my normals pointing out(I averaged them in maya before exporting. I don't have any weird attached faces, and my model still splits.

Any ideas?

[Jhonus]

what version of maya are you using?

[Lunatique]

I got the problem fixed. Must delete any weird faces, then you'll be fine. Wings will automatically close up your mesh for you.

[ilasolomon]

Thanx to Krugar & Lunatique
well, I think i have got what's the problem, seems when we have an edge shared with more than 2 polygons (like a extruded edge) then wings can't convert the geometries properly.

[Jhonus]

Originally posted by ila_solomon
Thanx to Krugar & Lunatique
well, I think i have got what's the problem, seems when we have an edge shared with more than 2 polygons (like a extruded edge) then wings can't convert the geometries properly.

yup, thats right.

[howardt]

The reason why wings has difficulty with models that, like those mentioned above, have more than two polygons sharing an edge is that internally wings uses the "winged-edge" data structure to represent the model.

With a winged-edge data structure (in the form implemented by Bjorn), each edge must be adjacent to exactly two faces, and each face must consist of a connected series of edges with no edge or vertex repeated.

There are lots of advantages to this representation; the main one is that the program is always quite on top of the topology of the model, and this makes it easy to program many of wings's cool operations.

The downside is that it makes it difficult to import arbitrary sets of polygons and turn them into a solid model. In the case of a polygon extruded from an edge (so making 3 polygons sharing one edge), all wings could do would be to turn one of the polygons into two polygons back to back and then split the edge that is now shared by four polygons into two edges in the same physical spot. But then what about the other edges of the doubled polygon? In general, a very hard programming problem, and one Bjorn admits needs more work.

Now that I'm switching to a more polygon-based companion packaged for wings, I might take the time to help Bjorn improve the algorithms for importing/exporting arbitrary sets of polygons. But if you want smooth interoperability with wings3d, you're always going to be better off if you can model in other packages as if you were following the rules for a winged-edge data structure.

[Mauritius]

The biggest plus of the winged-edge datastructure from an external application's pov is that your geometry is guaranteed to be manifold all the time. A Catmull-Clark sds must have a manifold control polyhedron.
If you render using a RMan compliant renderer, a manifold geometry is a prequisite for sds. If working with PRMan from Maya, I find myself constantly invoking "Clean up Polygons" then fixing the mesh again to ensure the geometry stays manifold. With data from Wings I can start texturing and riggin right away.
This is my personal no. 2 reason to use Wings instead of Maya for sds modeling. Reason no. 1 of course is the workflow approach which I feel is superior to Maya's -- even if I miss manipulators in rare times ...

.mm

[howardt]

Excellent point, Mauritius, about the advantages of winged-edge representation for sds. I forgot about that; it is indeed probably the most important advantage.

I think you've mixed up manifold vs. non-manifold. It is manifold geometry that is what winged-edge guarantees, and that is good for sds.

[Mauritius]

Yes, manifold is the implicit topology of a Winged-edge datastructure. Maybe I shouldn't post here after getting home from a party, hehe.
I corrected that op of me ...

.mm

[Peter Reynolds]

I use wings with maya all the time now, and I haven't had a problem with obj files in or out.

I'd also agree, most times the wings workflow is a good thing helping you stick to good modeling habits.

[Mauritius]

Peter: first, I'm talking of PRMan with MTOR here to render polygon meshes as subdivision surfaces from Maya (not Maya sds -- I don't use them).
Second that was indeed my point. If I import polygon data from e.g. Max or Rhino, I often get baad non-manifold topology (open vertices, edges shared by more than two faces etc.).
But never with data coming from Wings.

Of course you must take care if going back and forth. You can easily create a non-manifold geometry in Maya, export that as an OBJ and get all sorts of trouble in Wings as it automagically fixes this on import, possibly rendering your geoemtry hard to edit.

.mm

[wasamonkey]

a simple experiment
creat a cube
cut an edge on top of it from edge to edge
now cut a vert into it
then move this vert up
select the verts and the ends of the edge we created
now connect them
wings handles it differently
notice it creates 1 edge on each side
other apps tend to just create one and use it for both sides

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