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SheepFactory
01-28-2003, 05:22 PM
Hi Guys ,

http://www.3dfestival.com/story.php?story_id=677

after reading this and seeing that the apple 20 inch flat screen display is now $1200 i am inclined to buy one.

My question is , do they play well with PC's? , I have a Boxx system with quadro 900 xgl. Will there be any problems connecting the monitor?

Also if any of you is an owner of the apple 20inch lcd , can you please tell me what your overall impressions are.

Thanks in advance.

Ali

imashination
01-28-2003, 06:22 PM
I've used a fair few flat panels and have to say that the mac flat screens are the best I've ever used, the image quality is simply superb. If not then the new NEC screens are also very good.

Generally avoid anything in a cream matt case.

beaker
01-28-2003, 06:25 PM
Search the forum here on a thread about the using the cinema display on a pc. I remember there were just a few things you had to do to get it to work but it was no big deal. Like apple has their own display connector(ADC) which is just dvi with power, so you just have to get a converter that splits out the power and dvi in two.

dmeyer
01-28-2003, 07:42 PM
Make sure your card supports the wacky aspect ratio resolution. No one would have experience with these yet...just released today (the former mid range was 22")

singularity2006
01-29-2003, 05:07 AM
*droooL*.... 24in cinema display on a PC... *droooL....* :drool:

GregHess
01-29-2003, 01:49 PM
Quick note....

The Quadro 900XL and 980XL don't have the capability to run Dual displays at that high a res...so if your currently using a dual head configuration, and looking at buying a 24" inch cinema display, realize that you might not be able to run Dual head when the primary display is at 1900x1200.

Its interesting because we were debating which cards can actually power the Cinema display yesterday on Irc.

Came down to the 900/980XL and the 9700 pro...

Turns out that the 9700 pro and I quote:

RE: maximum supported DVI-I resolution

The Maximum resolution that DVI-I out supports 1280x1024.

Should you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us.

Regards,


Kally
Customer Service Canada
ATI Technologies, Inc.
http://www.ati.com

So be VERY careful when picking a video card for the cinema display.

P.S. If anyone has a radeon 9700 pro, and is running DVI-I at a higher res then 1280x1024, please tell me. 1280x1024 seems REALLY low, considering some geforce 3's can run higher DVI-I Res's then that.

beaker
01-29-2003, 02:57 PM
Greg: shouldn't the dual head GF4Ti be able to handle dual at 1920x1200? The one apple has on their site has 128 meg of ram on it.

GregHess
01-29-2003, 05:02 PM
Beaker,

The highest rated dual output for a ti 4600 is the gainward golden sample 750XP. It can do dual DVI-I 1600x1200, and is supposedly one of the only geforce 4's capable of that. Most are limited to dual 1280x1024 (Analog+ DVI-I)

It seems that the limitation of output is not determined by ram allotment, but by the type of ramdacs on the chip. I've been emailing a few manufactuers and it seems that the actual dvi-i outputs differ from the analog ones so flaunted on the websites and box packages. DVI-I is actually falling under a type of tv-output type thinking, with its own seperate resolution support chart.

PNY's site is even listing the quadro's max dual dvi-i as 1280x1024 on both screens, though I don't think that can possibly be right, which is why I emailed them.

CgFX
01-29-2003, 05:57 PM
RAMDACs are not involved at all in the DVI output.

DVI-I is not itself limited to 1280x1024 as the ATI email implies, that is a 9700 Pro limitation.

DVI using external transmitter chips (such as many GeForce4 TI's, Quadro4 7x0/9x0 XGL, and Wildcat VPs) allows for a DVI resolution of at least 1600x1200.

DVI using on onboard transmitters (such as Quadro4 550 XGL) often has a DVI resolution limit of 1280x1024.

DVI is currently resolution challenged (and I believe the max is 1900x1200 for single link) and hindered by old-school scanning/refresh methods and interference/noise.

Dual link DVI will address a lot of this. I noted that that some 3dlabs boards (VP) and the Quadro FX support dual link DVI. This will allow much higher resolutions and probably provide support for the IBM Big Bertha using one monitor port (3840x2400).

GregHess
01-29-2003, 06:11 PM
CgFX,

Thanks for the clarification. I was having discussions about some chips yesterday on the newer quadros (something begining with T) and somehow thought they were related to the ramdacs.

SheepFactory
01-29-2003, 09:08 PM
excuse me if my question sounds lame guys , i have no knowledge in the subject matter , here goes:


are you guys saying that Quadro 900 XL will have problem running a dual Apple cinema display setup?

I guess i'll take my computer to comp usa today and hook it up to the cinema displays to check out if it works fine.

GregHess
01-29-2003, 09:55 PM
1) You can't run the displays without the converter.

2) The Quadro 900 and 980XL are incapable of doing a dual 1900x1200 output across the DVI-I...so thats correct, you can not Dual Apple Cinema Display. (Information direct from a PNY Support Rep).

However, you can do a 1900x1200 HD Display on the primary dvi-i, and a secondary DVI-I screen AT A LOWER than 1900x1200.

CgFX
01-30-2003, 03:51 AM
I found a better answer to all of this. Bless Google.

Single link DVI can not (regardless of vendor) support any resolution higher than 1600x1200 without modifying the timings of the scan. In other words, without reducing the intervals between the horizontal blank and vertical blank (CRT legacy crap that LCDs don't need), no single link solution can go higher than 1600x1200. I am 95% on this.

So the Apple displays that are doing 1900x1200 are reducing these blanking intervals and require graphics cards that support this.

It is also my understanding that all the Quadro4 700 series and 900 series support this (as well as the GeForce4 Ti's) on one DVI port. Only 75% on this. I am not sure about the Wildcat VPs or Firegl's and Radeons.

However, I don't think this is something that you can make work yourself. The card will either recognize the panel and do the proper driver things or not.

You still need Apple's DVI to ADC adapter. ~$150

GregHess
01-30-2003, 05:25 AM
CgFX,

One of my friends just ordered a 980XL and a HD display after talking to the PNY rep. I guess we'll know for sure when he hooks it up early next week.

Thanks for the info.

dmeyer
01-30-2003, 05:29 AM
HD's for $2K :eek: Might make a nifty CGTalk monitor.

madyak
04-04-2003, 03:57 AM
So what exactly was the upshot of all this?

I'm looking at Cinema Displays for the first time and have been told that the only way to get top performance is with a card that will support the required resolution natively (1680x1050 on a 20")...

Is there a list of cards that are a perfect match? I don't see one on Apple's site.

Thanks.

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