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BenEoff
09-04-2006, 11:50 PM
Hi everyone, long time lurker first time poster. I hope I can learn a lot from the amazing artists on this board. I'm currently working on my portfolio so maybe I can get a job some day. This is my take on Batou, and it would be great if you guys could tear him apart for my benefit. Thanks.
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batou6.jpg

urgaffel
09-05-2006, 01:01 PM
Strange that you don't have any replies yet. Model looks great, can't really see anything that stands out as wrong so... No crits from me. I'm not 100% awesome when it comes to anatomy so I'm not sure about the shoulders but they look ok so I guess it's alright. Are you going to use this to generate a normal map for a lowpoly model?

*edit*

On second thought, the lips look a little bit funny. His face looks a bit scrunched up for lack of a better word, you could smooth it out a little bit. I know he's a grim and weathered person but it's a bit over the top at the moment in my opinion. Still a great model though :)

Headless
09-05-2006, 01:06 PM
Looks great! Big thumbs up so far! :thumbsup:

weasel.acuh5o
09-05-2006, 01:15 PM
can't say much about it at this point beside that it looks great - I see the point about his expression, but don't really think that's a big deal. maybe cut back a bit on his eye ridge.

the only thing that bothers me are the grenades, compared to the hands they seem awfully small.

ChimpanG
09-05-2006, 01:20 PM
I've only watched ghost in the shell once a few years back and I instantly recognised him, you've got his character down well :D
I disagree with the facial expression thing mentioned above, it suits the char.

obelisk
09-05-2006, 01:31 PM
I disagree with the facial expression thing mentioned above, it suits the char.

agreed. he's a dead ringer. agree on the grenades though. and i can't help but think that the dimple on his chin seems over deep. it makes sense in 2d, but seems over the top here.

great model. keep truckin.

-O

hakanpersson
09-05-2006, 02:03 PM
Great model! My only crit is the ears, they are too thin
cheers

/Håkan

glynnsmith
09-05-2006, 02:06 PM
My number one, most favourite character in any anime/manga. Awesome!

It looks very much like him. A great start. Good luck with it, I'll be watching fo shizzle.

G

BenEoff
09-05-2006, 02:12 PM
Hey guys, thanks so much for the comments thus far, lots of good stuff. The grenades obviously need to be a bit larger, I had a hell of a time finding a good reference for that type, and even more of a difficult time finding it in relation to hands (i.e. I couldn't). If anyone has a good reference I would be so greatful. In general I don't plan on changing the weathered feel of his face, I think that is Batou, regardless of the fact that he is a cyborg. However, there are deffinitly some issues there that I will be working through. Most comments I've gotten from other people suggested that the sternos were a bit too harsh, so I'm deffinitly going to make something better happen there. This will be used to generate normals for a 5000 poly model. He'll be posed with this gun, pulled from Ballistics, which still has some detailing to go. Again, thanks for the comments.
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/big%20gun.jpg

Brasil
09-05-2006, 04:36 PM
Great modeling skills! He looks almost perfect. What about textures.. ?

hanzo
09-05-2006, 07:14 PM
Great take on Batou BenEoff, how original that you choose him for normal map project. Got to love ghost in the shell!

Alos nice gun, I'll keep watch :)

ts-falcon
09-05-2006, 11:22 PM
wow this looks awesome, cant wait to see the low res mesh. was the highres done with mudbox? looks pretty game character to me mate :D the clothing is looksing very good, onyl crit is the brachial radialus seems a bit too defined

RO
09-06-2006, 02:03 AM
My fav charecter in ghost in the shell series!!! I keep looking at this. I am actually making a tachikoma sp? type design.

tin-tin
09-06-2006, 06:39 AM
looks good will be even better , I may have seen this before but still looks good :)

AdamAtomic
09-06-2006, 04:05 PM
hey man rock solid :D beautiful model! though i was hoping to see his Big Gun from the spider tank scene...

FirstManOnMars
09-06-2006, 04:29 PM
Hey I really like this, very faithfull to the look of the Batou character.

Crits and suggestions -

The chin depression just under the bottom lip seems very deep in the render, maybe soften that.

The arms and skin in general seem very smooth, maybe brush in some finer details such as veins and styrations.

Maybe some finer lines in the hair, it seems a little heavy, like putty, at the moment.

No legs? :)

Great job, can't wait to see this guy finished.

-Matt

AchmedtheSnake
09-07-2006, 12:09 AM
bloody awesome, excellent accuracy to detail

i've got some Shirow concept books and the first concept companion to the new series - stand alone complex (season1) - it has excellent concepts and character backgrounds, but the way they present Batou is with just his trademark coat and normal small arms.
In fact i can't see any concepts of grenades in the firearms concept section at all?
still looks bloody awesome - give me a heads up if you still need ref for his hands and stuff.

BenEoff
09-08-2006, 11:05 PM
Thank you everyone for your comments! Here's the full body shot. Don't think I can push detail much further without my box doing something horrible to me in return. I'll let it sit for a day maybe while I get the low res built, and if there is nothing nagging me by then I'll go ahead with generating the maps from it. And thanks for the suggestion AdamAtomic, it shall be so. Please continue to let me know what you guys think!
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batou7.jpg

FirstManOnMars
09-09-2006, 08:57 AM
damn man, looking great.

The folds in the pants could use a little softening and some pooling at the bottoms... And the butt looks a little flat for such a muscular guy. The feet seem a tiny bit small compared to the hands and arms.

Awesome work.

phantomworkshop
09-09-2006, 11:46 PM
This Character is really shaping up. Very impressive sculpting details on this guy. His face kind of reminds of a weird movie I saw the other night on HBO, The Mangler.

BenEoff
09-10-2006, 05:27 AM
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batou8.jpg
Ok, reworked the pants, dunno if they're there yet. Would love to hear some suggestions though, or techniques? This time around I built up the basic forms of the legs and then started into the folds, but I just can't seem to figure out how much creasing I should do or how soft they should be. I keep going back and forth like that, and it's irritating me. I will go in and so some more smoothing though to get them cleaner. Think I'll do his gun before I worry my self any more though.

ChimpanG
09-10-2006, 10:58 AM
I preferred the old pants however this guy is amazing reguardless of how un-ironed his pants are :D
i simply cannot wait to see this guy textured :|

Headless
09-10-2006, 02:30 PM
Looks awesome, although I think there's a few proportional tweaks you could make. Currently his muscles/torso and the size of his head, seems to be a bit too big compared to the length of his arms and legs. I'd either make the arms and legs longer or shrink down the size of the head, torso and muscles.

Just my opinion.

albynism
09-10-2006, 04:14 PM
The new pants look nice. Keep up the great work.

BenEoff
09-13-2006, 02:54 AM
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batoulow2.jpg
Low poly sits in at ~3900, the other 100 will go to the gun. I'm happy with it and will start texturing unless someone can point out some very horiffic mistakes.

FirstManOnMars
09-13-2006, 04:37 AM
Looking really great. Can you summarize the process your going thru? I'm not clear on the Hi-Poly to Low-Poly process.. I've been going low to High and I guess that is not the best way?

Very nice work. the only nitpick I can make is that the folds on the legs could be bigger an softer when tucked into the boots ("Pooling folds")

TheGodZero
09-13-2006, 05:12 AM
If you set up basic materials (color and spec values) on your hi first and bake everything on to the low with a skylight it will save you a shit load of time. That way you already have the depth lighting info baked in. Normals cant do everything as we all know, so a lighting info baked into your diffuse will give it that extra bit of sexyness.

oh and he needs one more edge loop on his sholders.

BenEoff
09-13-2006, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the comments.
TheGodZero-This is just the normal map applied here, I'll be baking in other information to help with my other maps. It usually takes me a couple of renders to get all the normal detail I want, then I pull those into photoshop and make grab the bits that worked best from each render to come to my final normal map.

FirstManOnMars-Thanks. Personally I do a very quick proportioned "stick" figure model, kinda like you would gesture on paper, using strips of polys. This helps me get that initial "feeling" of the character's pose. Even though it is just a standard rig pose, I like to think that it feels lose and natural. That's due to the process above, and it actually helps me to maintain an image of the character in my mind, and keeps it fun to work on. Using a combonation or poly-by-poly and box modeling I then finish up the base mesh for the organic areas (sometimes this will be good enough to use as a base for the low poly as well). I take the base mess into my sculpting package and go to town on it until the character is roughed out enough to where I feel comfortable making the accessories for it. This is usually still pretty low res, and very quick as doing the accessories will most likely mean deleting some of the original base geometry so I can optimize for maximum detail later on. Bringing the model back into my 3d app I start poly-stripping in the clothing accessories pretty much the same way I started my base mesh, by defining the contour/sillouette first, and then building up the form. This usually takes a bit of time as most clothing accessories are a combonation of organic and inorganic features, and I have to juggle with the detail of the inorganic bits while keeping in the back of my mind that the organic bits will be sculpted. Also if my mind explodes because I don't know what I want to do next, I'll print screen and pull it into photoshop and do paint overs. When I'm done with the accessories I save them all out to seperate obj's and bring them into my sculpting package and go to town until the sculpt is done. I'm always careful to keep lower res versions available as it makes my retopping a lot easier. I bring the lower res sculpt, which has all the form but hardly any detail into my 3d app and from there it's just a matter of either building a low res from scratch or manipulating the orginal base mesh around until it's all done. Unwrap, bake, bake, bake, bake, paint, paint, paint, and done. All the while I'm herassing you blokes for comments and critiques, cause I really want a job in the industry, and my only option right now is to make the best damn portfolio I can and cross my fingers.

Sorry for the lengthy explination, I was feeling chatty.

FirstManOnMars
09-14-2006, 12:21 AM
Haha, not lengthy to me at all... It actually opened my eyes to a couple of key things my mind was not getting. I'm very gratefull for the time you took to explain it :)

Post an update soon! And then get to work on Motoko :P

weasel.acuh5o
09-14-2006, 03:23 PM
definitly coming in nicely. can't wait to see how he looks fully textured. :)

BenEoff
09-17-2006, 02:42 AM
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batoutex1.jpg
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batoutextsets.jpg
So... Here he is, 1024 maps and all. I should mention that blank spot is for his gun when it gets done (sorry won't be the one from gits, just too frikken big for this piece). I didn't do much color for his skin as he is a cyborg and he is almost white in the menga/anime. As texturing isn't exactly my strongest point, any help/seggestions would be recieved with an open mind.
Thank you!

TheGodZero
09-17-2006, 04:33 AM
You need to add some grime maps to him, nothing in this world is clean.

You need to add a layer of random small grit grime and large grit grime over the whole thing to give some woreness to him.
Then go in and make some material specific grime for each type of material. So some skin grime overlays, some stains for his pants, some skuff marks on his boots, and so on.

Its all about adding in the extra details that bring them to life.

Also it looks like you didnt bake any GI into the diffuse or spec. Trust me its worth the time.

BenEoff
09-17-2006, 04:52 AM
I did bake the gi in, though it seems like I'm getting very bad results, any tips? I agree with everything.

TheGodZero
09-17-2006, 05:57 AM
Sure show the GI bake.

An idea is also to put a flat grey material on the whole hipoly then bake out the GI so that only the shading comes out. (not sure if thats what you already did) Then use that as an overlay ontop of your diffuse texture. You want it so all the deep creases stay pretty dark all the time so it gives depth.

Also the face still needs to have this apply, just not as obvious. He may not be human but hes supposed to look damn close.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/Neo_God/skincolor.jpg

Might want to do the same for his elbows (dirty so more blue hues and brown) and knuckles (reds, browns), that will really bring him to life.

BenEoff
09-17-2006, 06:03 AM
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/Batou2_occlusion.jpg
This is how it keeps rendering, I'm using xnormal for this though, since it is so much faster than xsi atm. Guess I can give xsi a shot and let it render over night.

TheGodZero
09-17-2006, 06:29 AM
here is a quick paint over of what i'm trying to get at.

http://www.tgz3d.com/batou.jpg

BenEoff
09-17-2006, 04:19 PM
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/batoutex2.jpg
Better? Added suggestions.

TheGodZero
09-17-2006, 07:54 PM
Much better, now you just need to fix up the spec map. To do that apply the same ideas you did to the difuse to the spec map. That way it will break up the shine. Also tone down the spec on the cloth areas.

jogshy
09-18-2006, 04:21 PM
Nice model!

I think just need some work in the specular map and eyecandy shaders.

You can add some kind of cloth pattern ( like nylon cells ) in the specular and normal map to give him a few more detail. Perhaps mark more some veins in the arms too and paint more corporeal hair.

And to finish can use the diffuseGI environment map and add some reflection map for the shirt buttons, glasses, etc in the xNormal viewer texture slots :p

great work for your first post omg!

weasel.acuh5o
09-18-2006, 04:46 PM
coming along nicely. I agree on the nylon cells or something similar, just make sure to pull down the specular far enough on the pants. as for the reflection map I wouldn't do it - especially not on the eyes, as far as I can remember they're not shiny in any of the series/manga either.

FirstManOnMars
09-19-2006, 02:14 AM
Hey, great work so far on the color. You might want to get some more realistic detail in the scalp line, right now it looks like a straight line where the hair abruptly starts.

An example of what I'm talking about,
http://www.rafaelsstory.com/images/rflpost%20hairline_sm.jpg

BenEoff
09-23-2006, 03:16 AM
Hi everyone, I'm done with this guy. I don't ever want to lay another pixel on him, I need to move on. I've learned what I can from this project and am excited about what to do next. Thank you all for your comments and critiques!
http://beneoff.com/images/batou/BatouFinal.jpghttp://beneoff.com/images/batou/BatouFlatFinal.jpg

NOTORIOUS-ro
10-21-2006, 10:04 PM
Well.. your pretty much amazing... I guess even remodeling my Batou (a third time) seems pointless and even more discouraging now. Congrats on the model and maybe when you have a little spare time you'll throw in a cell shade (you know.. just 1 cell for all the model).. just for the sake of shadows and lines. Good luck with your portofolio :thumbsup:

WesleyTack
10-21-2006, 10:40 PM
Nice work man, great model and normal maps !

I have one question though:

I see some people use their specular map with the color spec map on it directly (so not a seperate spec map and color spec map) is that the same? or how? what? cause in 3Dsmax you have two slots: specmap and colorspecmap? I've been wondering this for some time :p

TheGodZero
10-22-2006, 05:49 AM
The colored spec map is both the color for the spec and also the specularity level, now if you had a alpha map on that it could be used at the spec fall off map.

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