Who the hell at Corel thought this was a good feature to add?!?

[tomt]

Can you detail what the problem is. Autoclone makes a copy of your original image and doesn't modify it.

[Shogmaster]

Can you detail what the problem is. Autoclone makes a copy of your original image and doesn't modify it.

That's nothing like what it does for me. Just go ahead and make a decent sized canvas (2000x1000 or better), pick you favorite brush, and then hit Ctrl+Shift+Z. Hope fully you won't need your computer for the next 5 minutes, LOL.

[rattsang]

That's nothing like what it does for me. Just go ahead and make a decent sized canvas (2000x1000 or better), pick you favorite brush, and then hit Ctrl+Shift+Z. Hope fully you won't need your computer for the next 5 minutes, LOL.

ture this happened to me once- but then i deleted the keyboard shortcut- so really it isnt a problem

[tomt]

My goof, When I've used this, Rarely, I cloned first. I have to stand corrected.

[Jinbrown]

Hi guys,

To answer the question in this thread's title:

Corel didn't add the Auto Clone command. It was present as far back as Fractal Design Painter 4, the earliest version I own and can check. It may have been a part of Painter even earlier. In any case, it was Fractal Design that included Auto Clone in Painter.

Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z is not exactly the same as using Effects > Esoterica > Auto Clone, though the default keyboard shortcut is the same.

What's different is that:





There are times when Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z will work when the Auto Clone command won't work.
Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z can sometimes be used with brush variants that are not set to Clone Color (take color from the Current Pattern or user specified Clone Source image) so we can apply the effect with many other brush variants just using the currently selected color. In other words, we're not limited to Clone painting only.
No need to wait 5 minutes if you accidentally (or deliberately) use either the keyboard shortcut Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z or the Effects > Esoterica > Auto Clone command.

Just click in the image to stop the action.

If you didn't want that action to take place, use Ctrl/Command+Z to Undo it.


Why the Auto Clone command (or Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z)?

There are a number of ways this feature can be used. Here are just a few but the artist can use it in other ways, limited mostly by his/her imagination and willingness to experiment.


It's a quick way to either Clone imagery from the current Pattern or from the user specified Clone Source image.
It can be applied over the entire Canvas or Layer or within a selected area of the Canvas or Layer.
It's a quick way to create (or take the first in a series of steps to create) an interesting background.
It's a quick way to create (or take the first in a series of steps to create) an interesting Pattern or Paper texture.
Sometimes photographers who are commissioned to do paintings from their portrait photos will Clone paint the entire image using a brush variant that "roughs up" the imagery making it softer and less photographic looking. Then they'll either Clone paint detail back into the portrait or paint using non-Clone Color enabled brush variants and using the original photo only as visual reference to paint detail while leaving the background soft and only suggesting shapes from the original photo.

Using Auto Clone or Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z definitely can change the Clone Source or Current Pattern imagery depending on the brush variant selected when the Auto Clone command or Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z is used.

If applied directly on existing imagery, it can definitely change that imagery.

The only brush variant I can think of at the moment that won't change the source imagery is the Cloners' Straight Cloner variant which produces an exact copy of the original imagery. Try it with, for instance, a brush variant that uses Method: Drip and you'll have a very different result.

[Cris-Palomino]

One thing to keep in mind with the Auto Clone is that it creates through the application of DABS. Therefore, it will only work with Dab or Pixel-based type brushes.

These brushes have a dab type that is either Circular, Single-Pixel, Static Bristle and Captured. They are composed of image dabs (like Photoshop brushes) that because they are so close together and overlapping, give the illusion of a continuous stroke when, in reality, they are not. These four dab types have the Spacing controls available and if you strengthen the spacing, the more you see the individual dabs which make up that brush.

Remember that color is being taken from the assigned source, so if you do not see the clone button on in the color palette (the colors will look dimmed out), press the rubber stamp icon and colors will be sampled from the source.

Some examples. You can auto clone with the captured bristle (dab type: static bristle) variant of the acrylic brush set, but not with the bristle oil (dab type: bristle spray) of the oil brush set. Even within the acrylic brush set, thick acrylic round (dab type: camel hair) cannot be used for auto clone.

Keep in mind that a larger dab will result in a softening/distortion of the image. You can create a less soft image by decreasing the size of the dab.

As Jin points out, there are many creative reasons why you would use cloning and auto-cloning.

Hope this helps,
Cris

[Cris-Palomino]

One thing to keep in mind with the Auto Clone is that it creates through the application of DABS. Therefore, it will only work with Dab or Pixel-based type brushes.

These brushes have a dab type that is either Circular, Single-Pixel, Static Bristle and Captured. They are composed of image dabs (like Photoshop brushes) that because they are so close together and overlapping, give the illusion of a continuous stroke when, in reality, they are not. These four dab types have the Spacing controls available and if you strengthen the spacing, the more you see the individual dabs which make up that brush.

Remember that color is being taken from the assigned source, so if you do not see the clone button on in the color palette (the colors will look dimmed out), press the rubber stamp icon and colors will be sampled from the source.

Some examples. You can auto clone with the captured bristle (dab type: static bristle) variant of the acrylic brush set, but not with the bristle oil (dab type: bristle spray) of the oil brush set. Even within the acrylic brush set, thick acrylic round (dab type: camel hair) cannot be used for auto clone.

Keep in mind that a larger dab will result in a softening/distortion of the image. You can create a less soft image by decreasing the size of the dab.

As Jin points out, there are many creative reasons why you would use cloning and auto-cloning.

Hope this helps,
Cris

[tomt]

Thanks for straightening this out Jin. I have a further question on the same topic; is there a list of brushes that will work (or not work) for the control>shift>Z command? Simpler maybe; how about brush categories?

[Shogmaster]

If you didn't want that action to take place, use Ctrl/Command+Z to Undo it.



WHY DIDN'T I THINK DO TRY THAT! *smacks head*



Thanks Jin. You are ever helpful as always. :applause:

[Jinbrown]

Thanks for straightening this out Jin. I have a further question on the same topic; is there a list of brushes that will work (or not work) for the control>shift>Z command? Simpler maybe; how about brush categories?

Hi Tom,

None that I know of except one that an artist on another forum began a while back. I'm not sure which forum it was and, as I recall, the list wasn't complete.

The best way to find out is to try brush variants you think might work well and begin your own list of favorite Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z or Effects > Esoterica > Auto Clone variants.


Again, just so everyone will know:

It's not always necessary to use Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z with Clone Color enabled.

Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z will work with the currently selected color, or Main Color.


Here are some examples done with Clone Color disabled:

Ctrl/Command+Shift_Z used with a custom brush variant, a take off on the Chalk's Square Chalk with Color Variability set to from Color Set:

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/Jins_ABlendyChalkRake_ctrl_shift_z.jpg


Ctrl/Command+Shift_Z used with Chris Cimonetti's Fine Art 2 brush library, RND A Split Bristles variant and Color Variability set to from Color Set:

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/FineArt2_RND_A_Split_Bristles.jpg


Custom Paper created by using Ctrl/Command+Shift+Z, the Pens' 1-Pixel variant and black as the Main Color:

http://www.tutoralley.com/ubb/jins_images/sparse_sandpaper_demo.jpg

[Cris-Palomino]

Here is an example use of autoclone (shift+cmd/ctrl+z) with photography.

The original photo:

http://www.elektralusion.com/painter/Original.jpg

I selected the acrylic captured bristle variant at default. I then selected the figure and applied a 20 pixel feather stroke, decreased the size of the brush and applied again. Selected only the face, 20 pixel feather, stroke and even smaller brush size. I then selected the soft cloner in the cloner brushes and brought back some of the original features and enhanced the highlights in the eyes.

http://www.elektralusion.com/painter/AutoClone.jpg

There are so many ways to use this feature with a little creativity.

Cris

[Shogmaster]

Now that I know I can interrupt it before it renders the whole canvas completely black, I can easily see it's usefulness. I'm so embarrassed that I never tried tapping the screen! LOL

[tomt]

Here is another little tibbet that confused me at first when I started playing with Autoclone. I was trying to clone an image like Cris's using Autoclone and kept getting a pattern from the Pattern Portfolio. Come to find out that in my case the clone source was set as Pattern rather than the image. I believe that's the default although I didn't see it in the help files.

Shogmaster, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did me a good deed by bring up the question. So, My thanks.

[Jinbrown]

Cris,

Nice demonstration, so thanks for taking the time to share it with us.


Tom,

Here is another little tibbet that confused me at first when I started playing with Autoclone. I was trying to clone an image like Cris's using Autoclone and kept getting a pattern from the Pattern Portfolio. Come to find out that in my case the clone source was set as Pattern rather than the image. I believe that's the default although I didn't see it in the help files.


You're right. In the File > Clone Source flyout menu, Current Pattern is the default.

When we open an image and use File > Clone, the original image's file name is automatically checked in the File > Clone Source flyout menu.

When we end a Painter session and want to start a new Painter session and continue working on a Clone painting, we have to open two images:

Original image
Clone of the original image

Then we need to reestablish the relationship between the original image and the Clone by going to the File > Clone Source flyout menu and checking the file name of the original image.

If we don't reestablish this relationship, the default, Current Pattern is what will be painted when we continue working on the Clone painting.


Shogmaster, you have nothing to be ashamed of. You did me a good deed by bring up the question. So, My thanks.


I'll second that, Shogmaster. Nothing to be embarrassed about at all. It's questions like this that help others learn things too, so this wasn't a waste of time and everyone got to share and learn together.

More fun learning together, dontcha think? :)

[Shogmaster]

Thanks you two. Only if we can track down the cause and solution to the dreaded "Painter Poof!" as easily.... I'd all set then. I'd never say bad thing about Painter again! :D

[Laurindo]

I use autocloning to make backgrounds and other surfaces to my paintigs, the use already mentioned here.

Painting by hand some large area, it's very difficult to get the same feeling of randomness with exactly the same average density (if that happens to be what you want).

I often have a selection to define where I want that brush trace rain to fall. You get a very rich effect even with two colors, current color and additional color, which you can choose in color palette (or make a color set to get more variation, like in Jin's examples). Then go to Brush Controls and in Color Variability give some amounts of variation for hue, saturation or value, or all of them. After clicking shift+cmd/ctrl+z, you just wait the right moment to stop the process...and often make a new try with other adjustments. It's always exiciting to see what will happen, you never exactly know.

Opacity of the brush makes also big difference and using layers gives you countless possibilities with opacity and composite methods (or blendig modes if you open the pic in photoshop).

In picture I "cloned" Oil Pastel (opacity 100) on white canvas with two colors and some H, S & V variability added, but didn´t use any other tricks.

Lauri

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