Workstation specs for a noob ;)

[cooperunionstud]

if you want a new computer right here right now, and can't afford to wait, i would suggest the mac pro with dual xeon processors. If the budget is a little bit tight. i would recommand an mid range amd or intel dualcore processor. namely 4200x2 or a 6600 conroe. 2gbs of memory is standard now days, but if you have some extra cash, migh as well go for 4gb, its only 200 dollars more than 2gb. Also a nice video card like the geforce 7900 should suffice for what you are doing.

on the other hand, if you can afford to wait, i would wait till christmas and get a dual quad system (8 cores). that should improve your render times tremondously.

for reference, a penitum 4 3.0ghz is probably about as fast as your dual processor amd pc in terms of rendering, while the 4200x2 is about 2.5 times faster for rendering, the new woodcrest xeon 3.0ghz is about as fast a 270 quad opteron (dual dual core) in terms of rendering, and a quad woodcrest xeon (mac pro) is even faster...and so on and so on

[Valkyrien]

Knock off the SATA cables--your motherboard comes with them :)

Make sure to add a processor to that list too :)

[tecton3d]

Ok, not completely a noob, but if you don't stay on top of this hardware stuff religiously, your knowledge is worthless in 6 months.

In a nutshell:



I'm a MAX/Vray/PS/ACAD/SU user.
I do arch vis almost exclusively.
I don't do heavyweight MAX stuff
Typical workflow: Model building in SU, assign mats in MAX/Vray, place Onyx trees in MAX, do lighting and other scene setup, render.
This will be my primary box. I have some other lesser machines for DR. In the near future I will begin adding render slaves.
I am coming from dual 2400s with 2GB and a 980XGL, so anything will be a step up.
Here is my latest attempt. Please feel free to crit.
http://www.jscottsmith.com/ng-misc/6300system.htm



I want good performance, but I don't need the absolute best thing out there. My main priority over my last machine (now DOA) is better render times. Everything else was tolerable.
The Raptor sounds fast and cool and all. But do I need it? Which would be better - 150gb at 10kRPM, or 250gb RAID at 7200?
Video card opinions?
Do I need the 4GB, or would 2GB do it for me?
Any general advice on components, compatibility, best use of $, etc. is greatly appreciated!!!
Thanks :)
if you're wanting best use of your money, then forget about the raptor! For that money you could get a pair of 300gb's with RAID 1 and have some money left for the pub : )

I'd you'll be safe with 2gb of RAM since your primary modeler is SU and it's probably not going to go 64bit anytime soon... however, if you anticipate getting more serious into MAX/V-Ray, definitely go with 4gb's of ram.

go with the 6400 instead of the 6300 (assuming that was your intention from the title of your 'egg saved list:P).

[ScottSmith]

Huh. Don't know what happened. Must have blown it out of the cart somehow. Yeah, I had actually gone with the 6400 rather than the 6300 (just named the html wrong)

I was wondering about the big RAID vs fast small single drive. Also wondering if I would be better off getting just 2gb and putting the money saved toward another slave. I'd like to get heavier into MAX modeling, but I'd rather buy RAM, etc. when I outgrow a system than buy it in anticipation.

Thx for the tip about the SATA cables. Is there anything else I need or don't need? I know monitor, kybd, etc. of course. But as far as inside the computer, do the primary components come with all required cabling, fans, heatsinks, "heat paste", standoffs, etc...? I've replaced about every component at one time or another - just never built one from scratch.

[lots]

for reference, a penitum 4 3.0ghz is probably about as fast as your dual processor amd pc in terms of rendering, while the 4200x2 is about 2.5 times faster for rendering, the new woodcrest xeon 3.0ghz is about as fast a 270 quad opteron (dual dual core) in terms of rendering, and a quad woodcrest xeon (mac pro) is even faster...and so on and so on

That seems quite off to me. Especially since you contradict your self :P Two Xeon 51xx series CPUs at 3.0GHz in a system will be exactly the same as a mac pro with two of the same Xeons. It will just run OSX nativly rather than Windows. Which could cause some problems down the road when you want to install Windows on the Mac Pro. Boot camp isnt 100% stable for all those windows apps...

Anyway, about the setup. Ditch the raptor. In fact, dont even worry about RAID, as in most cases the added HD speed will not benifit you at all, at least judging by your usage (Modelilng and rendering). A simple 320GB drive from seagate (7200 RPM) for about $95 will be fine. You probably wont need any more than that, unless you're starved for space :P

I'd personally go for a Core 2 Duo E6600 if possible, but if not, the 6400 will be fine. 2GB of RAM is great. Get more if you can afford it, but its not that vital at that point. Though I would suggest just getting slower value end RAM. No point in spending nearly $300 for 2GB of RAM when it can be had at around $150. The primary thing to take away from this is, if you plan to over clock, you will want the high end RAM, as RAM stability at higher clock speeds is key to overall system stabilty and over clockability of the CPU. If you have no plans to OC, then basic value RAM from a name brand company will be absolutly fine.

Video card: You could probably get a card with similar or better specs for less. RAM on a video card is not quite as important as many people make it out to be.. 256MB is fine. I would favor higher core clock speed and RAM speed over quantity of RAM. Not to put RAM down, but it just isnt as important as the other two in most cases. You'll also find that dropping your RAM down to 256 MB you can get alot more for your money in terms of performance.

EDIT: I would look into getting Artic Silver 5. Instructions on applying this thermal paste to a CPU are found all over the net. It should provide the best heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink. Also, the stock heatsink for the new Core 2 CPUs should be fine, but should you be interested, you can probably get better cooling from an aftermarket heatsink/fan combo. It is not manditory, but lower CPU and system (good airflow in your case) temps combined with a good stable PSU can help improve system stability quite a bit. Having good quality RAM helps a good bit as well.

[ScottSmith]

Thanks for the additional tips.

More followup Qs....

I'm with you on the HDs.

On the RAM: I'm not intending to OC. The way I see it, it will put me in another price range by the time I up every component to match specs, add cooling, etc. Those costs, plus the concern about life of the system are more than the value I get out of the speed increase. Maybe for a gamer, but not for a primary office workstation.

Anyway, shopping RAM is way over my head. Which numbers do I need to look for?

Same for video card. Other than the amount of RAM, what do I look for in a faster processor and faster RAM? (Target numbers or vid card examples)

Thanks! :)

[Valkyrien]

EDIT: I would look into getting Artic Silver 5. Instructions on applying this thermal paste to a CPU are found all over the net. It should provide the best heat transfer from the CPU to the heatsink. Also, the stock heatsink for the new Core 2 CPUs should be fine, but should you be interested, you can probably get better cooling from an aftermarket heatsink/fan combo. It is not manditory, but lower CPU and system (good airflow in your case) temps combined with a good stable PSU can help improve system stability quite a bit. Having good quality RAM helps a good bit as well.

Definitely a good reccommendation. Thanks to that and a nice Zalman fan, I'm doing 44C under load. That's less than the idle temp on my last box ;)

[lots]

Anyway, shopping RAM is way over my head. Which numbers do I need to look for?

Same for video card. Other than the amount of RAM, what do I look for in a faster processor and faster RAM? (Target numbers or vid card examples)

Thanks! :)

Video cards and thier specs, the thing you want to look at most are the core clock seed (this is the GPU's speed) and the RAM speed. This is usually advertized on the links on newegg. I cant give you any specific numbers as each video card grouping (Geforce 7600GT, 7800GT, etc) each have thier own different speeds for these specifications. Most video card manufacturers overclock the cards out of the factory as well, so some will be clocked higher than others.

I would look to getting an eVGA, BFG or XFX card. You can look through thier line ups of the varying speeds and prices of each card and get a good idea of where the higher performing cards sit. You should be able to get a good Geforce 7600GT for around $170.

RAM type is also important. You want to make sure your card of choice has at least GDDR3 (4 is out, but only on a few ATI cards).


As for system RAM, you'll want to look at DDR2 at the specified memory speed of the CPU. Something like 667MHz. After that, the latency numbers, and all of that is really not that important to a non-overclocker. Lower numbers are generally better (CAS 2 for example or sometimes they are written 2-2-2). The lower these numbers the better. But since you'll be aiming for value ram (to save a few bucks) you shouldn't really find any realyl low latency stuff.

Some good brand names to look at are OCZ, Corsair, Kingston, Crucial. Keep an eye out on your motherboard's memory compatibility list though. I'd recommend buying memory found on the list, under the brands I pointed out.

[lukx]

As for system RAM, you'll want to look at DDR2 at the specified memory speed of the CPU. Something like 667MHz.

for Core 2 isn't it rather 533 than 667?

[lots]

yeah.. I keep thinking woodcrest with its faster FSB when I think of Conroe ;)

[lukx]

yeah.. I keep thinking woodcrest with its faster FSB when I think of Conroe ;)

just a sec... "faster FSB" on woodcrest? Here: http://www.intel.com/products/processor/core2duo/specifications.htm

Core 2 has 1066 FSB

and here: http://indigo.intel.com/compare_cpu/default.aspx?familyid=5&culture=en-US

the fastest one is 1333 this is the one you're saying is 667? Cause I have to divide FSB by 2 to get maximum ram speed, right?

[lots]

I dont reacall off the top of my head, but I do believe that the new Core architecture that Intel has developed is a dual pumped FSB (rather than the quad pumped P4), thus the true FSB speed is half that of the one they advertize.

The Xeons use a FSB speed of "1333MHz" and FB-DIMMS, while the Core 2 Duo uses a "1066MHz" FSB and plain old DDR2.

[GregHess]

It's still quad pumped. 266x4 and 333x4 respectively.

You shouldn't need to go any faster then PC5300 if you aren't oc'ing to rediculous levels, or not at all. You could actually make due to with step lower, however there are diminishing returns when trying to save money on ram. (ie sometimes its better to just pay 10 dollars more a dimm for more elbow room).

[ScottSmith]

Ok. Here's where I've ended up. Any glaring problems?


COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW
Black Aluminum Bezel
SECC ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
Retail
Item #: N82E16811119068


FSP Group (Fortron Source)
FX600-GLN ATX12V/ EPS12V
600W Quad. SLi Power Supply
Retail
Item #: N82E16817104014


Intel BOXD975XBXLKR Socket T (LGA 775)
Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard
Retail
Item #: N82E16813121016


Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz
LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6400
Retail
Item #: N82E16819115004


Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound
OEM
Item #: N82E16835100007


CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB)
240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400
Retail
Item #: N82E16820145590


(2) Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS
(Perpendicular Recording Technology)
320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
OEM
Item #: N82E16822148140
(For RAID array)


SONY Beige IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DDU1615
OEM
Item #: N82E16827101132


BFG Tech BFGR76256GTOCE
Geforce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card
Retail
Item #: N82E16814143049


OPTI-UPS GS1100B 1100VA 550W UPS
Retail
Item #: N82E16842107140


DATACOLOR|S2100 SPYDER2
Retail

[GregHess]

Replace the sony dvdrom with one of those liteon combo SATA drives. That way you won't have any IDE devices at all.

Also, the FSP makes a sound "tone" that is quite annoying to some people. Supposedly they've resolved it, but depending on how close the case is to you, it might annoy the living crap outta you.

This is the second fsp system I've built, and its still got that tone...I guess you wouldn't notice if it if there was any noise at all from anything else, but I try to build minimal db output machines, so I can pick it out =/.

[ScottSmith]

Thanks Greg.

Just found out the order already went thru. Are the DVD and PSU issues big enough issues to make the call and try to switch?

Also, what's your opinion on OC?

[GregHess]

No they aren't big enough issues to warrant changing, or paying extra in shipping. The lite-on is more just a solution which results in no ide devices then anything else. There is really only 3-4 SATA rom's right now, and it happens to be the cheapest.

My stance on oc'ing remains the same. Don't purchase a system hoping to reach a preset megahertz range. Purchase a system that you'll be happy with the megahertz its running at.

Also though overclocking can result in a very fast, very stable system, you must ensure that it's 100% stable at all times through proper selection of power, ram, and processor/system cooling. Even then, it may be too hazardous to perform on your only workstation, as a crash or any instability could effect your workflow, and your resulting pay (or lack there of).

After the system is setup, run two prime95's (one on each core), [max ram on one core, max heat/power on the other] for at least 24 hours (the more time you can run the stability tests the better), to ensure that there won't ever be any stability issues.

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