Thinking of purchasing Cinema 4D XL 8

[ThirdEye]

Let's start with the reviews:

a perfect 10/10 on 3Dworld: http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/347/00347_00347.html

and a perfect 5/5 on MacUser:
http://www.maxon.net/pages/dyn_files/dyn_htx/htx/345/00345_00345.html

Strenghts: fast modeling with many tools for speeding up the process (simmetry object, a lot of spline tools, good polytools, edgetools), extremely good workflow (defined the best workflow ever by 3D festival), ultrafast and hi quality raytracing and global illumination, stability (it NEVER crashes), good new CA tools (Mocca), excellent particle system (Thinkin Particles), the best 3D painter possible (BodyPaint 3D, it allows you to paint even in real time raytracing), possibility to add the best hair simulator on the market (Shave&Haircut, cut price now), and last but not least the greatest thing about C4D imho: it's a young package that never stops growing up!

Weakness: it doesn't support ngons yet.

The manual is simply great, it explains clearly all you need to master the program.

Differences between XL and Studio bundles: C4D NET (the net renderer), Bodypaint3D (real time 3D painting even in raytracing mode), Dynamics (the name says it all)

:thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Just to clarify, the XL Bundle comes with a 3-seat net render license, whereas the studio bundle comes with unlimited net render.

FYI, if you search for Lightwave or LW on this forum you'll find a lot of debates about the relative merit of the two applications.

[Nurb'd]

Hey Hook (we get around huh?)


Cons - Organic modeling will not be easy as it would be in some other packages. Though you can do it by adding points (a method I have used in Maya myself) to build polygons. Can be a bit tedious way of modeling a human. Take a a couple edges.. say you want to subdivide them to add detail. When you do the result will be triangles on all sides. Makes speed editing complex characters a real pain but not impossible. You can not just do a cut and go on. The result will be triangles on all sides. Triangles produce the effect kinda of creases in AM. Of the top 5 (cinema/lw/max/maya/xsi) Cinema (at this point) would have the weaker modeling tools. No n-gon support is no small thing and frankly at the price studio is.. is beyond me why it is not been included.

Price - Cinema industry wide is not there yet. The price the big factor I would assume. They chose to compete direct with Maya complete. You can get Maya for $1,999 and LW 7.5 (no tuts) for half that. Both products having long industry support. Here is a industry report for 2000 - 2002.

http://www.3drender.com/jobs/jobcount.htm

That is employers asking by package. I am not really sure what Maxon was thinking. While Cinema4d has come a LONG way... that is very bold. Mocca while better then LW CA (IMO) is not close to taking on Maya CA. Dynamics (not included in XL) again is not close for Maya dynamics (Maya's strongest point). I have heard Thinking particles is not the easiest thing to learn. Milage may vary on that one. I would argue Houdini is the hardest thing I have ever took a swing at :scream: Advnced render only adds stuff that should have been included. There is no "paint effects" or maya artisan type in studio or xl. You can not just pick a flower and paint the model into the scene and be able to fully animate it into a short. I guess I am shocked Maxon would decide to just charge as much as Maya complete but more.

Shaders - although R8 has sla (sold to Maxon?) (who I think bhodinut (the makers) just quit) the shaders are a tad limited. No huge node based shader tree. If you are not used to it then it might not matter.

Community - not as much "help" out there as far as shaders/plugins go.

I think some would argue Deep Paint is the best 3d painter :surprised


WHEW enough negativity

1. VERY stable product on both Mac and PC

2. Great workflow, no real searching... everything close by

3. Lower learning curve. You can jump in and get going

4. Pretty darn good raytracer. Cinema is capable of rendering some sweet images and it is fast

5. You can customize it from schemes to creating tabs, etc , like shelves in Maya. You can save them and load them up for certain tasks like in Maya. I think all cg software should have this.

6.. Pro/Con - shave and a haircut is not close to Maya fur but you would not get that anyway with complete. Can not buy it either. You will have to buy it for Cinema. It is good however and not a bad price.

7. It can just be fun to use.

8. Due to the ease you will not need much help learning it until you start messing with tp.

9. It is a young growing, expanding, company that shows promise. Since V.6 they have made real effort to take big steps. It can only get better.

10. You could do much worse


--

If it was not for the high pricing I would reap heavy praise. They should have completed directly with LW and not Maya complete. You know I use Lightwave at home and Maya at work. I love LW. The truth is though it is starting to show its age. Some odd stuff is in the air. With the price of LW and the free training.. I have to wonder why. Here is a good thread

http://www.cgchannel.com/forum/viewthread?thread=229

I think before you lay money down you should have the facts and speculation. Not everyone can lay down a lot of $. If I was you I would go for Maya complete. I think though.. no matter if you go Cinema/LW/Maya complete... you will be a lot better. All 3 packages can achieve amazing things.

Have a good day :beer:

[ThirdEye]

I heard nobody uses Maya fur because it's slow and not as good as S&H. There's also a S&H version for Maya, if Maya fur was so good why Joe Alter created the Maya version? ;)

[Nurb'd]

for complex .. it can get VERY slow

but for throwing up some grass... some short fur... mid haircut on a woman... you are not going to top it

make plane... click add fur, hit grass preset.. change a couple options, ahhh

make cat, click add fur, a couple options, pow

honestly though.. forget about making a long hair cut without some pain

[ThirdEye]

S&H doesn't have these limits, look at some XSI videos or Joe Alter videos ;)

[Nurb'd]

one built in and one you buy

hmmm

:surprised

[fxgogo]

First off; I would not look at the training as a big advantage when thinking of buying. If you have come from AM, you will have all the concepts you need. Actually you will be in a better position when it comes to character animation. I feel that a lot of training is a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere. You can teach your self so much quicker and use the forums and other internet sites to get tuts, etc. I made the mistake of buying loads of books to teach myself, and most of them have just sat on the shelf, while I learnt what I needed by myself or via the net. So don't look at the training from LW as an asset.

Second; you would not do anything bad by going for either package. Both will get what you want to do done, albeit via different methods. All I can offer you is the reasons I went with Maxon and C4D. It is a piece of software that is growing and changing very rapidly. You can be rest assured, that if something is not there that you want, it will be in a very short while. The package has very innovative features added each time a new realease comes out. It is one of the only packages at the moment that is growing and gaining market share (The fastest if I am not wrong). They are not trying to just keep there market share they are growing out and getting others. It all just feels really positive.

I was making the same descision as you a while back. Now I have used Lightwave and I have enjoyed it as well. My only major gripe has been the two seperate programs, ither than that I would not have a problem using it. In the end I went with my gut and went for the company and software that looked like it had a better future in it.

Hope that helps.

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