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Hookflash
01-27-2003, 03:33 AM
I'm surprised by how many "big guns" (ie, Avalanche & Blizzard employees, etc.) are fans of A:M. Why don't you guys band together and use your clout to force Hash into getting their act together? ;)

bugzilla
01-27-2003, 02:36 PM
Where did you hear that Blizzard and such are AM fans? I know that Blizzard uses Max almost exculsively. If you have links where the "Big Guns" talk about AM please post it here.

Wegg
01-27-2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Hookflash
I'm surprised by how many "big guns" (ie, Avalanche & Blizzard employees, etc.) are fans of A:M. Why don't you guys band together and use your clout to force Hash into getting their act together? ;)

A couple years back. . . JoeW did just that. He posted to Postforum with all the gripes and frustrations we are all venting now. I guess he was ahead of his time. . .

I was one of the first to shoot him down. :-/

At the time I bought into Martin's vision of this being a lot of tool for the dollar and we shouldn't openly complain because that would hurt potential customers. Boy I feel like a heal now. . .

Sorry Joe.

JoeW
01-31-2003, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Wegg
A couple years back. . . JoeW did just that. He posted to Postforum with all the gripes and frustrations we are all venting now. I guess he was ahead of his time. . .

I was one of the first to shoot him down. :-/

At the time I bought into Martin's vision of this being a lot of tool for the dollar and we shouldn't openly complain because that would hurt potential customers. Boy I feel like a heal now. . .

Sorry Joe.

No hard feelings here :) That post was mostly because I was frustrated with all the WORK I was doing to try to get Hash to listen. I can't count the number of examples I created in several packages and sent to Hash to compare. These were *fair* tests, meant to be used as *measuring sticks* to help them improve - give them something to aim for. What did I get for the many hours of work, project files, examples, etc? I got labeled a malcontent and a trouble-causer. I can't tell you the number of times I heard "Most of our users don't care about X" - (X being the object of my current crusade for improvement).

I *still* think AM is a great tool **for the money**. I still love animating and rigging in it. I like modeling in it, and although it's primitive by many people's standards, I like texturing *organic* objects in it. It has some of the best ideas ever put forth for character work, and it floors me that none of the "big boys" have adopted their paradigm. You can get some really nice stuff out of it - if you're willing to work your ass off for it. If it wasn't for the new (horrid) interface and it's renderer (especially the renderer) I'd be fairly happy with it overall.

Avalanche and some of the bigger studios don't have much pull with Hash unless we help them sell software - and a lot of our stuff is under NDA, so we can't give them much. Other than that, we don't have any more pull than the average users. If the mass of users can unite, THAT will have an effect. If potential users walk away because of what they read, THAT will have an effect. We need to have one voice, though, and right now I think they're hearing a lot of unorganized cat-calls and jeering.... (which I'm guilty of being a part of).....

Well, I don't want to re-hash (no pun intended) all that's been said, so I'll stop here...

JoeW

Wegg
01-31-2003, 04:46 PM
Well do you still have all those tests you did? I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would be interested and even willing to input their own side by side benchmarks. . . I know I threw a few simple ones together a few years back dealing with shadows. . . I wonder if I still have those. . .

JoeW
01-31-2003, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by Wegg
Well do you still have all those tests you did? I'm sure there are plenty of people here that would be interested and even willing to input their own side by side benchmarks. . . I know I threw a few simple ones together a few years back dealing with shadows. . . I wonder if I still have those. . .

I think I might, but to be fair they need to be done in AM10. I'm doing some new ones as I write this (shhhh - don't tell the boss)....

I'm going to hit the "high-spots" because showing *everything* would take a lot of time...

JoeW

PS - Does anyone have an FTP server I could dump my examples onto? I feel kind of guilty using Hash's FTP site to serve images that trash on them.....

Wegg
01-31-2003, 08:09 PM
I can probably swing something for you.

My Fault
01-31-2003, 09:39 PM
I can work some room for you as well Joe

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