Aggie93 - Painter Thread

[Mu]

I would advise against the colour picker (eyedropper) for finding out which colour is which on a ref (that's what you mean, isn't it?).


Can only teach your eye for colours.

I rarely use the mixer palette, though. I use the colour triangle.

the axis from left to right determines the amount of saturation.
the axis from up to down regulates the share of whites and blacks.
the outer ring determines the hue.

this together with the colour info palette set to HSV (via its menu which pops up after pressing that little arrow/triangle pointing to the right) gives you a great amount of control over your colour.

Play with it.

:thumbsup:

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu - That triangle thingy just seems difficult. I haven't used it yet. I have been using the mixer tablet like I would a real palette. I will try it. I do not understand the Hues and Saturation stuff. And how would you get back to those colors? How do you make it store the colors you are using for later use?

[razz]

You paint with that color, so you can use a color picker from your own painting to get back that color. Just don't use a color picker to pick colors from the painting you're studying. Or there's a pallete in painter , where you can store colors. Not the color mixer, but the other one. To turn it on go to windows > color palettes > show color sets. I think that might be what you need.

[Mu]

aggie,

the color sets can hold color swatchs, much like a real life palette.

If you hit the plus button below it, the colour set palette will add the actual colour that you paint with at that time.

You can also choose to transfer all the colors of your mixer palette to the color set palette. Check its menu.

COLOR:

it is important to learn what determines colour.

HUE:

-Hue is what people would probably normally call colour. you can choose a red or an orange or a blue hue, e.g....

SATURATION
- That, however does not say anything about its saturation. Saturation determines how much red is in a red hue.
If you remove all of the saturation from any hue you always end up with a shade of grey. No more colour in there. If you increase saturation the colour moves more and more away from grey to a shining colour of the hue you specified.
Saturation is very important to increase the depth in your paintings as distant parts will be much less saturated than close parts, e.g.

VALUE
- Ask anyone out there (and better still: find out for yourself!): The value of any colour is the most important parameter for you as a painter. Value determines how light or dark a colour is. No matter how high the saturation is, if you set the value to 0% you end up with black, vice versa you end up with white if you set it to 100%. Value specifies how much black or white is contained in your colour.

Now, the exact shape and lighting of everything you paint is primarily determined by VALUE alone. If you paint on a white canvas with black, a 50% value of grey (no saturation, or saturation=0) and finally white - that is if you paint something in greyscale only - then you practise handling the most important part of any colour. If your values aren't correct, no hue and no saturation is going to put it right. On the other hand, if your values work, almost any hue with almost any saturation will do the job.

So, master your use of values, then add the other two parameters. That's why I think the color triangle is an important tool (together with the color info palette set to HSV [Hue Saturation Value!]) It shows you exactly what the three parameters do to your color.


Finally, take a close look at what happens here,

http://www.androidblues.com/JealousyStepbystep/jealousystep.html

you can do the value part of your paintings first and then cover it with colors while keeping the values!

Let's see your greyscalee studies!

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu - good call. I think looking at that link I learned that grey first would work better. i will try that.

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu - Thanks for the link, androidblues. That was real informative. So I am trying that technique with the OFDW. Here is what I came up with last night:

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/5236/awakening008ck3.jpg

[Mu]

Hi aggie,

glad you found the link informative.

One suggestion with this method. It is advisable to get rid of the white areas, because they influence your perception of the values that you lay down. No colour and no value can be assessed on its own, but by the relations to the neighbouring colours and values.

That's why the white areas won't help you. It will make you think you are adding dark values when in fact it's a middle grey.

Therefore:

- put your lineart with the white background on a separate layer. I hope you still have it untouched somewhere.

- set this layer to layer mode "multiply". This will slightly darken your lines. But it has two other important effects.
1. Whatever you draw under this layer, the lines will still show through
2. The white areas on the layer will practically become invisible.

- then, create a new layer under the lineart layer which you will use for putting down values.
- Fill it equally with a 50% grey (any Hue, 0% saturation, 50% value)

- build your darks and lights from this middle grey.
- use big brush sizes, avoid scribbles - the blending comes at a later stage!
- avoid white and black (100% and 0% value figures). If you are going to color it later with a layer set to color mode, whatever hue and saturation you put over spots you used black or white on will always stay either black or white. That's not what you want.

Keep it coming!

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu - Thanks! I created a layer to fill, called it values. Used 50% value, no sat. So now I can add dark and light tones of grey to a new layer called paint? I did have my sketch isolated in its own layer called sketch, as well as my background sketch in its own layer. I assume I treat my background like a seperate painting. I am still unsure what Hue is and how it works? Never was much of a painter.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2331/awakening009uh4.jpg

[Mu]

So now I can add dark and light tones of grey to a new layer called paint?

Well, wether you want to paint on that same layer you filled with grey depends on wether or not you chose a variant/brush that smears and blends with existing colour. If yes you should either paint on that grey filled very layer or make sure the "pickup underlying colour" checkbox is checked in the layers palette, so the smearing does interact with what is already there regardless of wether you paint it on that same layer or another layer above it.

When I look at you canvas it might even be a good idea to choose a darker tone still. I don't know - it depends a bit on the atmosphere you want to create, but I am saying this because more often than not I found myself adding bright values and never getting the desired effect, because my bright tones were already surrounded by comparably bright tones. Bright tones start to shine in a dark environment, of course.
I don't know, really...depends on what you want to do. But don't worry - this is digital... you can always do that at a later stage, still...

as concerns colour theory: check out this thread in the tutorial section! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=303793)

that helped me a great deal.

So for now, I am looking forward to your first round of lighting on that lineart!

:)

[aggie93]

I got venturous last night. I painted a ball. I found out how to customize paint brushes, make things blurry, etc. However, I am not sure exactly how to add color. I just took the paints opacity and toned it down to 50% and made the layer with the color soft light. I probably did that wrong. Also how do you blend hard strokes to smooth them out?

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1629/decoball004so3.png

[Mu]

and made the layer with the color soft light.

does that mean you chose "soft light" for the layer's blend mode?

That is indeed the wrong method: choose "color"...

:)

[aggie93]

does that mean you chose "soft light" for the layer's blend mode?

That is indeed the wrong method: choose "color"...

:)

I chose soft light for adding the blue color. Not to blend. But I do not know how to do that either. I know I done it wrong. What do I do?

[Mu]

I know some people swear by hardedged brushes for blending (setting it to low opacities), but for me the real blending breakthrough came with soft-edged brushes.

It is rather late around here and I need some sleep, but you just tell me if softedged brush rings a bell with you or not and in case you need more info I will put something together...

:)

[NR43]

Hey aggie93
In Painter I blend using the "just add water" brush. You can find a tutorial on Don Seegmiller's website if I'm not mistaking.

The brush is located in the Blenders brush category
experiment a bit with that... change the size of the brush up n down... blend by pressing hard and softly... etc.
Great way of blending and pretty fast too, compared to blending by actual painting
Hope this helped

btw, I'm really sorry to hear you stopped on the OFDW. i'm hoping you'll pick it up again after getting used to the blender brush :)

take care
43

EDIT:
hm I must have mistaken coz I couldn't find a tut for that just add water brush on http://www.seegmillerart.com/ (http://www.seegmillerart.com/)

maybe it was on one of the video tutorial links I got when buying painter IX. (maybe you got them too? it's worth to check those tuts on the corel site if you haven't)

[Mu]

Hi aggie,

one thing I did when I was new to Painter was to create a category of very simple brushes.

This category I named laboratory. Painter's abundance of literally hundreds of brushes can be both intimidating and confusing at the beginning, so I decided I would do with three or four simple variants to get accustomed to everything.


http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/killme3.jpg

In there I initially placed a hard-edged round brush and a soft-edged round brush. No impasto, watercolor, liquid ink or other fancy stuff. Just the basics. Should you want to create a category of your own, too, you can simply paint a category symbol on a small resolution canvas (300 * 300) and select all (ctrl+a) and then choose "capture dab category" (direct translation from the german localization, I hope it is the same in english) from the brush selector menu. You then get a dialog where you can specify a name for your new category and then you should be able to create new brushes in there using the brush creator/designer (ctrl+b), e.g.

For blending, instead of using a specific blending tool I used a soft-edged round brush with which I put down the paint/colour. The soft edge provides a fade-out area on the outer circle of your brush dab which can be used to blend colours into another.
Many people frown on the usage of soft-edged round brushes, because they fear that your painting will loose any distinct edges, but that is because they probably don't mind that you can always change the brush size (very conveniently so by ctrl+alt and then click dragging, btw...:D ). That reduces the outer fade-out area and gives you a wide variety of edges you can choose from.

If you want to create a brush like that choose
brush property window->general->dab type->circular (or round?, damn the localization!)

then go to the size section of the brush properties and choose the following dab profile...

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/killme1.jpg

Think you can see the selected one. Make sure to play with the others so you see the effect of each of them...

here's a comparison of hardedged round and soft edged round

http://muratkayi.de/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/killme2.jpg

you can see that I changed the brush size to rather small on one area on the left side (where the softedged strokes are) and that those little strokes have a different edge.

Apart from that, noone hinders you to change brushes while painting...:D But I just thought it might help to cut down on the variety of Painter's brush library to focus on some simple basic brushes. I found it useful at least, but everyone has different approaches.

I painted the complete face of this painting (http://mu.cgsociety.org/gallery/344647/)with softedged brushes, e.g., and while I can see its weaknesses, I have still fond memories of it, because I sort of had a breakthrough on blending with it.

keep going...:thumbsup:

[aggie93]

Mu - I was wondering if there was a way to creat a custom brush holder. Thanks. I will try that and try to create my own brushes. It is intimidating trying to find all those brushes.

NR43 - Thanks for you help. I couldn't even find the way to water down brushes. I am still looking. I like my first paint strokes to be wet and transparant in traditional. However, I cannot find out how to do this in painter.

You guys are big helps. Here is what I did last night. My tribute to the finding of Munch's Madonna and Scream in Oslo. You know I was right in front of these paintings just a few days before they were stolen. Had my picture made in front of the Scream, even. When we got home, I heard about it on the news. I was just hoping Interpol wasn't looking for me. Glad they found them.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/6606/munchmadonnanl9.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8595/munchmadonna001ln0.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4974/munchmadonna002ez9.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3982/munchmadonna003du8.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7506/munchmadonna004oz2.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/4893/munchmadonna005sy9.jpghttp://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7240/munchmadonna007kc0.jpg
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/62/munchmadonna006qo0.jpg

I started using the blender brushes to blend the paint. It is probably wrong, but it did the trick. By the way, I am using the artist oil paints. I also find it easier to paint in color that in the grey tones, why is that?

[aggie93]

Again, played with painter for a couple of hours last night. I think I am getting this down or at least it looks a little more real.

Reb - Thanks for the link to the anatomy pictures. You have been wanting me to work on that so I did last night. I think I am ready for the next OFDW now.

Anyhow, here is what I have done.

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1603/musclestudywr5.jpg http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3061/musclestudy002dh6.jpg
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/2978/musclestudy005ro1.jpghttp://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1944/musclestudy008pq2.jpg

I decided to play, after I thought I was getting it, with the layer thingy.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/623/musclestudy011nh0.jpg

[Rebeccak]

Aggie,

Impressive start to this!

I would really love to see you bring up the rendering of the anatomical model as much as possible, and worry less about the 'grim reaper' character.

This could work out to be a very nice study. :)

Cheers,

-Rebeccak

[aggie93]

Aggie,

Impressive start to this!

I would really love to see you bring up the rendering of the anatomical model as much as possible, and worry less about the 'grim reaper' character.

This could work out to be a very nice study. :)

Cheers,

-Rebeccak

WHAT!! You do not like my grim? :sad: That is alright, I got tired of zooming in and moving around on the muscles. It was a ten minute breather before I went to bed.

Did that study look familar?
http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3088/01headtrunkarmantlp9.jpg I will probably work on this study a little more. I am really enjoying it. However, it appears I may start out with a scale to small because when I get to the detail information my brush size is already as small as it gets (1.0) and that is too big of a brush stroke. I start with a 8 x 10 @ 100. This is Acrylics mostly Wet Acrylic 10-30 then I blend it with the Wet Soft Acrylic brush. This could be entirely wrong to do, but it is a way. I also cannot work well with the greys. Just opposite with my traditional works. That's weird, huh?!

[aggie93]

Ok Reb, I continued with my muscle dude. Here is what I did after the HS football game last night. I will try and finish it this weekend.

http://img305.imageshack.us/img305/2663/musclestudy012uo5.jpghttp://img305.imageshack.us/img305/5596/musclestudy013ut0.jpg

[Talaria]

Aggie93, I wish i could help in your Painter journey D: but well I use photoshop...

Your muscle dude is looking great!

[aggie93]

Talaria - Thanks. Really any information helps. Especially crits.

I finished my muscle dude this weekend and I am submitting it for the OFDW, since there is a small world. I am actually suprised at myself on this one. Never thought I'd be able to catch on so quickly.

Really, thanks to the guys with the information that got me started.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8351/musclestudy015sh6.jpg
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1859/musclestudy017bs1.jpg

[aggie93]

Question to all CG'ers: When you are commissioned to create a painting, let's say a portrait, how do you present your final piece since it was created on a computer? Do you print it out on specific paper? Can you call it original or prints? I Was hired to do a comission piece and I was thinking on doing it digital, but I wonder if they think they were cheated since it is not 3D paint on canvas, all layered up.

[Talaria]

Well Aggie I use a round hard brush with low flow in Photoshop, I find it better for the blending.


About your workshop piece, I thought some reference might help you to do the clouds in the small earth so I searched for this:

http://www.maps-continents.com/pictures/earth-globe.jpg


I hope it helps :>

About your question, I don't get comissions so I can't answer that :/

[aggie93]

About your workshop piece, I thought some reference might help you to do the clouds in the small earth so I searched for this:

http://www.maps-continents.com/pictures/earth-globe.jpg


I hope it helps :>

Tal - I knew I needed more clouds but I was clueless. Thanks for the reference. That looks great.

I will try the hard brush next time.

[aggie93]

Playing around with different brushes now, air brushes. Here is what I did last night, real quick. I am running out of time since I will be studying for a couple of exams coming up.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/8033/pinup2003er6.jpg

Then I was going to play with a stellar idea I am having. I may try and finish this one.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/2333/dropsofjupiterxc3.jpg http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6394/dropsofjupiter001fn3.jpg http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3259/dropsofjupiter003di1.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is my WIP of my first TORSO study.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/328/jesus001ra4.jpghttp://img456.imageshack.us/img456/8681/jesus003yr5.jpg
http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/4839/jesus006bf0.jpghttp://img456.imageshack.us/img456/9150/jesus009gv9.jpg

[Mu]

wonderful man!

That's exactly the kind of work you should focus on!

Lookin forward to your workshop updates...

[aggie93]

Here is the WIP of Torso #2
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6946/torso02002vr2.jpghttp://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1435/torso02004gf6.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5945/torso02007jz1.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is my WIP for Torso #3 for the Torso Study on the other thread.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/1511/torso3001xv0.jpg
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/9815/torso3001aor4.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is my Torso No. 4.

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6705/torso07002td6.jpg

I know I need some smoothing up to do. I will work on that tonight...? Yea right!

[aggie93]

Here is a WIP of Torso Study No. 4

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7633/torsono4gn5.jpghttp://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7896/torsono4001tm7.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8148/torsono4002fz0.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is last night's Torso Study No. 5 WIP:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/8141/torsono5vm0.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9103/torsono5001kl9.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9466/torsono5002pz9.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9024/torsono5003cp5.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7057/torsono5004ha5.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4337/torsono5005bz4.jpghttp://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3374/torsono5006uz4.jpg

I am using a combination of acrylic brushes. I am just changing the opacity.

[NR43]

aggie93

Nice work!
May I suggest you play a bit with the layer setting for your linework layer? Maybe set it to overlay or soft light or something and see if you like the result.

Do you use a tablet to draw in Painter?
I can't help but thinking you are drawing in a very small room where you barely have any space to move your hand, arm and shoulder to draw (forgive my bluntness).
Our wise friend Thomasphoenix once told me it would be a good idea to draw more from the shoulder than from the wrist to get my lines on canvas.
Maybe try this approach:

Look carefully at the reference (image or real life model) and your paper/screen and imagine the line you want to draw and simulate it with your pencil, pen or whatever medium you're using. Do this a couple of times before you actually draw the line. If the line you've drawn isn't what you had in mind, don't erase immediately but start over again with simulating and then draw it again. You can use the wrong line as a guide to correct as well. When you're happy with your line you can erase the wrong one(s)
Remember to observe first and then draw.

Now this takes a lot of practice so don't let yourself be discouraged if you fail at first.
Focus on this and take your time.

You will see that after a while your lines will become more solid, more fluid.
You're sense for proportions will improve as well with this technique.

Hope this helps and really looking forward to see more of your work
Keep at it!

[aggie93]

aggie93

Nice work!
May I suggest you play a bit with the layer setting for your linework layer? Maybe set it to overlay or soft light or something and see if you like the result.

Do you use a tablet to draw in Painter?
I can't help but thinking you are drawing in a very small room where you barely have any space to move your hand, arm and shoulder to draw (forgive my bluntness).
Our wise friend Thomasphoenix once told me it would be a good idea to draw more from the shoulder than from the wrist to get my lines on canvas.
Maybe try this approach:

Look carefully at the reference (image or real life model) and your paper/screen and imagine the line you want to draw and simulate it with your pencil, pen or whatever medium you're using. Do this a couple of times before you actually draw the line. If the line you've drawn isn't what you had in mind, don't erase immediately but start over again with simulating and then draw it again. You can use the wrong line as a guide to correct as well. When you're happy with your line you can erase the wrong one(s)
Remember to observe first and then draw.

Now this takes a lot of practice so don't let yourself be discouraged if you fail at first.
Focus on this and take your time.

You will see that after a while your lines will become more solid, more fluid.
You're sense for proportions will improve as well with this technique.

Hope this helps and really looking forward to see more of your work
Keep at it!

NR43 - Thanks for the help. I will try the new layers. As for the workspace, I am using the new Gateway Tablet PC. I am just not use to the canvas that I am drawing on. I go back to my engineering drafting days. I will loosen up a bit as I get use to the digital paper. You are right though, I do notice the rigidness of my lines.

[aggie93]

I am more pleased with this one I am working on. I am going slower and moving my arm more freely.
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4014/wmboug001pf4.jpg
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9083/wmboug005am9.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is my cartoon character's WIP. Martian Queen:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/855/martianqueen001gc3.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7328/martianqueen002gz9.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8208/martianqueen003xf9.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4838/martianqueen005qy2.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6537/martianqueen007fd1.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8830/martianqueen009te6.jpg

[aggie93]

My cousin asked me to do a picture of her wedding in Hawaii. Here is the source:
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/4369/picture001jx5.jpg

Here is the study I have so far (WIP).
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6726/cousin1pv7.jpg http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7708/cousin1001cj3.jpg http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5023/cousin1002aa5.jpg

[aggie93]

I have been working on my digital art. I finished my exam so I have time to study this. Here is one of the ones I am working on. I have learned about opacity and resaturation. This has helped me out alot in blending my highlights and shadows.

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2222/study002ig4.jpg

[AztcFireFlower]

Hi aggie93,


Thanks for stopping by my SB:) .

You have some good things going on in your computer drawings. Eventually it will become natural to draw with a stylus. Your paper and pencil studies will make it that much easier to coordinate your gestures.

What I would keep in mind is seperation of value. lights only lights, darks only darks. And keep all the variations within each realm. I think the massing of value in post #37 is very good. You have this happening well.

[aggie93]

Aztc - I am not sure what you are talking about with the massing of the values. I have been trying to work with three different values; light, grey, black. Then I am trying to blend those, like in my last post. I just varied the resaturation and opacity using acryllics. #37 was broader strokes but no variation with the opacity and resat.

[aggie93]

I worked on this for another hour. I am trying to get my brushes smaller and more detailed.

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6374/study005ao1.jpg

I think this is the best I have done yet. She appears to be better purportionate than my previous ones and she is starting to have character, which is something I have not been able to do. I may be getting this down. It has only taken me three months but I haven't had the full time to devote to this. I am about ready to get serious. I still need to figure the coloring after you do greys.

[AztcFireFlower]

Hi aggie93,

Sorry if I confused. I just meant that I like the way you organized your values in post #37. To me they were distinct and nicely seperated. If I squint, the darkest lines (e.g. in the hair) and the grey become one value mass. That mass is your dark. What isn't in this mass is your light mass. Massing is seen when you squint. Approaching a figure in this way, has always helped me avoid spottiness and confusing light sources in the pic. It is pretty much instinctual for me when I draw or paint.

[Rebeccak]

Hiya Aggie,

Looks like you are making a lot of nice progress here. :) One suggestion I might have is not to go too light in your highlights - right now her whole flank is pretty light, so much so that you can't really add much in the way of highlights since there's not much further up to go in the light value range - I would recommend adding a layer of low opacity mid gray, and painting on top of that to bring out highlights selectively.

Keep up the good work!

[jramauri]

Great sketches. I like a lot the last ones, of a bending woman. Keep going, it's geting better and better.

[aggie93]

Hiya Aggie,

Looks like you are making a lot of nice progress here. :) One suggestion I might have is not to go too light in your highlights - right now her whole flank is pretty light, so much so that you can't really add much in the way of highlights since there's not much further up to go in the light value range - I would recommend adding a layer of low opacity mid gray, and painting on top of that to bring out highlights selectively.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks Reb - The reference I am using is a bit too over exposed as well. I thought about redirecting the light source, but I guess I could tone it down by doing what you said. I am going to need help adding color. How do y'all add color to the already greyed values in the digital world?

[aggie93]

Hi aggie93,

Sorry if I confused. I just meant that I like the way you organized your values in post #37. To me they were distinct and nicely seperated. If I squint, the darkest lines (e.g. in the hair) and the grey become one value mass. That mass is your dark. What isn't in this mass is your light mass. Massing is seen when you squint. Approaching a figure in this way, has always helped me avoid spottiness and confusing light sources in the pic. It is pretty much instinctual for me when I draw or paint.

Aztc - that is helpful advice. I will try that tonight. I assume you loosen your squint as refined you get.

[aggie93]

jararuma - Thanks for your comments. I feel like I am progressing with the help and advise from everyone here.

Here is tonight's update on my bending woman as jararuma puts it. I think I know where I am going with this painting. I am still just adding brush strokes. I did make her a little more greyed from the advice of Rebecca. That took more time than expected, but then I was able to work the details in a little more.


OK Apparently Imageshack has decided to try and think. It has decided that my digital art has turned into porn. I will investigate and get back with you. This is like photobucket all over.

Damn, I must be a great artist. It will allow my previous entries but this last one must be so realistic it blocked it with the following:

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/3037/study006bl4.jpg

So if you want to see my latest and greatest master piece that confused the bran of a website, you will have to wait.

Here is the link to my account on Deviant Art. You can view it there. Let me know if it is offensive like the big red banner above so thinks.
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42690947/

[aggie93]

Let's give this another try.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/518/study007od5.jpg

I do not know why it is working now. This is what I submitted this morning. i refined her a bit from last night. However, last night's rendition was not accepted. That is odd.

[Rebeccak]

Geesh, aggie, I'm sorry for the crazy ImageShack notice - I guess the best I can suggest is to cover the so called 'pornographic' aspects and host your censored images to imageshack or Photobucket. I really haven't found a much better alternative except your own website hosting.

Sorry for that. :sad:

[aggie93]

Geesh, aggie, I'm sorry for the crazy ImageShack notice - I guess the best I can suggest is to cover the so called 'pornographic' aspects and host your censored images to imageshack or Photobucket. I really haven't found a much better alternative except your own website hosting.

Sorry for that. :sad:

Well, it seems to be working now. It was just that one update from last night.

[NR43]

Here's a really nice tutorial on coloring your grayscales Davey
It's made by a true master :)

>>link<< (http://www.androidblues.com/JealousyStepbystep/jealousystep.html)

[aggie93]

Here's a really nice tutorial on coloring your grayscales Davey
It's made by a true master :)

>>link<< (http://www.androidblues.com/JealousyStepbystep/jealousystep.html)

NR43 - Thanks. I have seen this before. I will try it. I assume you'd use a different layer for the color?

[NR43]

yep, in color mode

[aggie93]

OK another post. I am so excited about this one. I feel like I am finally coming around to figuring this out. I am fixing to start my coloring stage. I hope my enthusiasm continues.

The Bending Woman (name from jramauri) Grey scale

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4258/study008es4.jpghttp://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7279/study009ul9.jpg

OK NR43 - I did the color thing, but you may not notice I got color outside the edge. Is it just I need to stay in the lines? Well, do you think I did it right? I just picked a skin tone and broad brushed it over. That seem to simple. I must have done something wrong.

[Mu]

hi aggie,

I dont know if you painted the lady on a seperate layer (one layer for the background, one for the lady, one for the color), because then you could right-click the lady layer in the layer palette and choose the layer transparency and then specify wether you want to paint inside or outside of the selection only with the three toggles in the bottom left corner of the image window.

If you got lady and background on one layer you will simply have to be careful about your strokes.

BTW, if you don't have your figure on a separate layer you could also just fill the whole color layer with a colour (e.g. via the colour fill bucket).

did not read the whole process behind it, but I hope this helped...

[anandpg]

Hi Aggie!!.. Awesome progress, man!!:thumbsup:

[aggie93]

hi aggie,

I dont know if you painted the lady on a seperate layer (one layer for the background, one for the lady, one for the color), because then you could right-click the lady layer in the layer palette and choose the layer transparency and then specify wether you want to paint inside or outside of the selection only with the three toggles in the bottom left corner of the image window.

If you got lady and background on one layer you will simply have to be careful about your strokes.

BTW, if you don't have your figure on a separate layer you could also just fill the whole color layer with a colour (e.g. via the colour fill bucket).

did not read the whole process behind it, but I hope this helped...

Mr. Mu - Thanks for stopping by and checking my progress.

The lady is on a seperate layer from my colorized layer. However, when I toggled the transparancy I could not get it to paint. My color layer is set for the following:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/9374/capture2ux9.jpg

You can probably barely read this. But the background is a seperate layer and yes I did use the fill feature.

anandpg - Thanks for the inspiring words. I feel good about my progress too!

[aggie93]

They lovely thing about digital art is going back to the sketch to add. I am finishing my lady up and figured out what to make of this piece of art. I am going back to one of my favorite myths of Psyche and Cupid. So I finally found a picture reference I could use for Cupid. I froze the other layers so I could get back to the sketches and started sketching Cupid. Here is what is coming about:

Ecstasy of Psyche
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1285/study011uk4.jpg

And no it is not going nasty. It is supposed to be her being swept off her feet and flown into the heavens. I can kinda see right now it may be taken the other way. I hope to calm that down once I start rendering it.

[SpiritDreamer]

HEY...Aggie....:applause: :thumbsup:

Looks like you are really starting to get the hang of this digital painting..GREAT to see such rapid progress...:thumbsup: A piece of cake, once you get the hang of it...:scream: :)
I like your idea for the embrace painting....might be a good one to experiment with a few folds of cloth, being blown by the wind maybe...might add to the motion, and increase the sense of entwinement...just a thought..:)
Looking forward to seeing where you take this last one ...has all the elements of HIGH DRAMA..:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

Thanks Spirit. I pretty much dreamed about this picture last night and tought to open up the front view of Cupid and swing his right arm out a little more. I know this exposes Cupid a little more but it won't look like Cupid just jumped right in to the Honeymoon. lol I like the idea of the cloth. I am going to extend Psyche's hair, she had long hair in my dream. Maybe that can be part of her cloth and I still have the wings to go. I do not draw many men espcially frontal. I am unsure of the background. Just clouds now.

I have another question I posed Rebbeca. How do you justify selling a digital original printed on canvas as an original piece instead of a copy? I have a commission piece and one I am thinking of donating for an auction and I want them to realize that even though it is printed out it is still original.

Thanks again.

[SpiritDreamer]

HEY...Aggie....THANKS...:)

LOL...:scream: ....HEY, is that a trick question that you just asked me..:scream: ..ORIGINAL//ONE OF A KIND
If you painted it, then it is an original...if they don't want to settle for a print, tell them to find someone to paint what they want WITH TUBES OF PAINT, or take your word that you are not going to sell that image to anyone else, if that is a concern. If a binding contract is necesary, well that's what contracts are for..:) ...of course you can always run a limited edition, destroy your file like they destroy the plates on old fashioned prints, if you chose..:scream:

I sell my work on tiles, cards, shirts, giclee on canvas ,...whatever....the more options the better chance of selling it.
Digital Art is a New technoligy, and requirers a new selling stratagy..honesty is always the best policy, and stratagy....Hope that helps to answer your question.
Check out my store on my website
http://www.cafepress.com/glenngallegos
and
http://www.art-discovery.com/artist.asp?id=11 .....these people do GREAT work....:thumbsup: :)

TAKE CARE, and HAVE A GREAT DAY...Aggie...:thumbsup: :)
Glenn

[batte812]

Hi Aggie, thanks for stopping by my skectchbook. You're doing great on the digital painting. Keep on going.

[aggie93]

Here is today's update while watching A&M lose... again. I think this pose will work. My wife wonders about my sanity, but I think it will come out right.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5622/study012rh9.jpg

Spirit - You are right. I guess being up front is first and foremost about the product.

Batte - Thanks! I am keeping on with this. I have nothing to do without the OFDWs.

[aggie93]

Man when you do not post you in 24 hours you get thrown to the back page. Here is my update:
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6026/study015lt1.jpghttp://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6573/study015ava5.jpg

[aggie93]

I took a break to just play with different brushes. First is water color then color fill. I wanted to mimik the cartoonish art, like the manga stuff.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3137/femalecartoon002je2.jpghttp://img296.imageshack.us/img296/2225/femalecartoon002bbg8.jpg

I'll take any comments. Tell me what to do to get that comic book style.

[aggie93]

I am having the most difficult time with Cupid. I started on the wings for both to move the focus around.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/9919/study018ay3.jpg

[SpiritDreamer]

Hi...Aggie...:thumbsup:

I think that if you put a strong shadow between the figures, it will act as a unifying element in
the composition. You might want to use a mirror to get the hands and wrist on cupid,want them to be bigger, and to show strength, will add to the sense of embrace. Use your own hands as the model for study...also wouldn't mind seeing a few more curves on the back outter edge of cupid...hips, buttock, legs ect. ..I think that if you exagerate the curves a little there, it will really add to the ryhem and flow of the piece.
Now might be a good time to change the background to a very deep , almost black purple,...will
really add depth, and a sense of atmosphere for the figures, and the wings...Cupids wings could fade into the darkness, adding to depth and adding mystery ect....The dark background will really make the female figure stand out also.
When doing a two figure composition, it is always good to have one of the figures stand out more than the other, through lighting, expression or whatever works...keeps them from competing with each other in the composistion, and creates a harmony,...Think of it as music,..you don't want two loud voices drowning each other out, you want them complementing each other, to creat harmony...Just some suggestions that might be of help to you..don't know..:)
Anyway, nice to see your progress on this, and also your progress in digital painting...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

...mirror to get the hands and wrist on cupid,want them to be bigger, and to show strength, will add to the sense of embrace. Use your own hands as the model for study...also wouldn't mind seeing a few more curves on the back outter edge of cupid...hips, buttock, legs ect. ..I think that if you exagerate the curves a little there, it will really add to the ryhem and flow of the piece. Now might be a good time to change the background to a very deep , almost black purple,...will really add depth, and a sense of atmosphere for the figures, and the wings...Cupids wings could fade into the darkness, adding to depth and adding mystery ect....The dark background will really make the female figure stand out also. When doing a two figure composition, it is always good to have one of the figures stand out more than the other, through lighting, expression or whatever works...keeps them from competing with each other in the composistion, and creates a harmony,...

Spirit - I thought the hands looked a bit small. I was using my hand for the left hand but the right was of the model. It looks a bit awkward. The back of cupid look large right now. I would hate to add any more. Cupid looks like he needs to go on a diet. I do not think his wings can lift him and Psyche. I like you idea of fading his wings back. That was a rough 5 minute sketch of the wings last night. My background was going to be some dark stormy clouds, I like your suggestion of a purply color. I will try! Thanks for the suggestions.

[SpiritDreamer]

LOL..Aggie...:scream:

I had in mind with those curves on cupid, to wittle him down some, and shave a few pounds off,...that should happen atomatically, if you make the curves lye inside of the exsisting edge.
The shadow in between the figures, will also have the same effect, making his gut disapear..:scream: The curves on the back edge,will also creat more rythum and motion ect....:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[Mu]

The lady is on a seperate layer from my colorized layer. However, when I toggled the transparancy I could not get it to paint.

Hi,

I am a bit online lazy atm so my reply to this comes off a bit off topic by now, lol.

You should not toggle the transparency, just create a selection of the layer's transparency by right-clicking the layer in the layer palette and choosing the option "select layer transparency" from the right-click pop-up menu.

Then, with a selection representing where you painted on the layer you can specify if you want to paint within or outside of the selection by toggling one of the three buttons in the lower left image window corner. This will help you coloring a greyscale sketch on a new color layer because you can be sure not to paint outside of the figure of the sketch layer that way, e.g.

see?

[aggie93]

Added shading and color. Still need to work on the male

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/621/study019gh4.jpg

[SpiritDreamer]

Hi...Aggie...:)

Looking lot's better..:thumbsup:
If you want to, take a look at page #1 and 2 of my skechbook // anatomy thread...will show you what that dark purple background color that I mentioned earlier looks like, and what effect it can have in your painting..you can drag or blend some of that background color into your figures, here and there...really creats a nice atmosphereic effect...:)
Also, you might consider extending the wing on left side of painting, so that it creates a nice sweeping ach, that aims towards the womans lower leg, maybe even overlapping it...will add more depth, motion, and rythum to the composition, and also make cupid seem like he can really lift the two of them, with no problem...just a thought..:)
Keep going Aggie...it's starting to shape up nicely...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

Nice little tutorial Spirit with your first post.

[Cris-Palomino]

Aggie, did you say you had photo ref for the guy? The hands look small, but they also do not look anatomically correct. What are you trying to do with the hand closest to us? His head looks a bit like you're showing two angles; his face is down, but the top looks more like the head is looking up at us.

Also, just a suggestion, rather than cutting them off at the ankles, perhaps have them end in deep mist or something. I don't know what you have planned for the background.

Cris

[aggie93]

Aggie, did you say you had photo ref for the guy? The hands look small, but they also do not look anatomically correct. What are you trying to do with the hand closest to us? His head looks a bit like you're showing two angles; his face is down, but the top looks more like the head is looking up at us.

Also, just a suggestion, rather than cutting them off at the ankles, perhaps have them end in deep mist or something. I don't know what you have planned for the background.

Cris

Cris - Oh where do I start. What screwed me up on the man was I needed to move him around. I have a photo reference but the angle of him made cupid look like he was getting lucky at that point. I was really hoping he'd wait. http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5499/photoset023173bd4.jpg Now, as you can tell his hand is twisted. I have had a real problem with this position. I have been thinking all weekend on the position of his hand. I really think I will move it to a more embracing position on Psyche. His head is tilted down a little to much from where I started with it. I think he moved to take a peak at her breast while I was painting (damn still photo models, you can't get them to keep their minds on the business at hand). Hell, I am thinking of scrapping Cupid and starting over. I am a male therefore I may have to pose for this position. It is hard to find that position I am looking for. As for their ankles, I ran out of paper. I like you idea of a foggy feel. We can come up with the story of Cupid rescuing her from the swamps of Louisanna. I could have crocs and other swampy creatures trying to get her. lol

[SpiritDreamer]

:scream: LOL :scream: :scream:

You can do it Aggie...:) ....just run the diaginal from the outside of his elbow to the inside of his wrist,which would be the one bone overlapping the other bone,...then make the backside of his hand, thumb pointed inward,...grabbing the woman,...gently of course..:)
HEY, at least you took off his boxer shorts...right..:scream:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

:scream: LOL :scream: :scream:

You can do it Aggie...:) ....just run the diaginal from the outside of his elbow to the inside of his wrist,which would be the one bone overlapping the other bone,...then make the backside of his hand, thumb pointed inward,...grabbing the woman,...gently of course..:)
HEY, at least you took off his boxer shorts...right..:scream:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Hey Spirit, here is what I had in mind (straight lines for center of his arms). Lil' more racy with his hand between her breast, but more sensuous! I will tilt his he up a little more and looking at her chin. I still need to widen his left wing.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4817/study019corrql5.jpg

[SpiritDreamer]

HEY...Aggie...:thumbsup:

I like the idea of him looking at her face, instead of her breast, but think his hand would be better placed,...just under her armpit,...wrapped around her upper torso ..side of back.
would look like he is lifting her instead of fondlling and groping her.:)
Just my opion and thought though..:)
Honesty is the best policy in painting, if you are going for LUST, than don't beat around the bush in your painting of it...:scream:
If you are going for him lifting her from danger, then make it appear that way...it's your creation... your thought and feelings that you are representing, so just be honest about it...:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

HEY...Aggie...:thumbsup:

I like the idea of him looking at her face, instead of her breast, but think his hand would be better placed,...just under her armpit,...wrapped around her upper torso ..side of back.
would look like he is lifting her instead of fondlling and groping her.:)
Just my opion and thought though..:)
Honesty is the best policy in painting, if you are going for LUST, than don't beat around the bush in your painting of it...:scream:
If you are going for him lifting her from danger, then make it appear that way...it's your creation... your thought and feelings that you are representing, so just be honest about it...:)
TAKE CARE
Glenn
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3910/study019corryd8.jpg

Here is my rough draft to the new cupid.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/5607/study021nj5.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is my update. I am going on memory for Cupid. Not real good at it either.

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8366/study022zo1.jpg

[aggie93]

I needed a break from Cupid. So I decided to start a study of Nadia Lorenzo's work. This is a ten minute piece from late last night.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/4518/lorenzo001ci7.jpg

[aggie93]

Oh I cannot stand it. I am through with Psyche. Followed Spirit's advice and added a purple background and distorted it. It makes her look like she has steam of love off of her. I need to go on with more experiments and studies.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/1736/psycheecstasyci1.jpg

[Cris-Palomino]

Hi, Aggie.

Sometimes it's good to take a break from a piece. It was not an easy piece. Take some time to learn about the parts that were giving you trouble and then come back to it at a later time and try it again.

Part of it was that you had basically done the one study and was then trying to conform your male figure to accomodate this piece. It's better to do that with both figures being drawn from the beginning together.

You also don't need to rely on just one or two pieces of reference. Find as many as you need to see what you want to draw. Do studies. The more you understand what you're drawing, the better you can extrapolate from reference to make it just what you want.

Don't give up...just study and try it again sometime.

Cris

[aggie93]

Thanks Cris, I probably will someday. I need some practice with sketches.

[aggie93]

I am just practicing my figure drawing. I am using Painter 9, pencil. Short 15 minute sketch using reference photo.


http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/269/femalelaying004pw9.jpg

[aggie93]

My amage to Rebecca K.'s latest series. That was so neat I had to try. This is my first attempt at air burshes. Love 'Em! I am still working on her but I think I'll call this one Milk Bath!

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6513/femalelaying008oe9.jpg

[Rebeccak]

Heya aggie,

Thanks for the homage. :) Keep rendering! Lots of good progress here, sorry haven't stopped in for a while...I'm counting the days til I finish up with my degree stuff!!

Cheers, :)

-RK

[aggie93]

Heya aggie,

Thanks for the homage. :) Keep rendering! Lots of good progress here, sorry haven't stopped in for a while...I'm counting the days til I finish up with my degree stuff!!

Cheers, :)

-RK

Thanks Reb, I may have asked you this before, what are you getting you degree in? I assume art.

[aggie93]

Couldn't quit. I need to study. I guess I can do that tomorrow. Art is an addiction!

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3630/femalelaying010fa9.jpg

[NR43]

Hey Aggie,

shouldn't her left breast suffer from gravitation? :D

I like the left upper leg, where the foreshortening shows nicely
May I suggest to expand the canvas a bit so you can put the figure completely visible?

keep going :thumbsup:

[aggie93]

Hey Aggie,

shouldn't her left breast suffer from gravitation? :D

I like the left upper leg, where the foreshortening shows nicely
May I suggest to expand the canvas a bit so you can put the figure completely visible?

keep going :thumbsup:

NR43 - Thanks for the comment. I guess I need to look at the photo reference to see if the breast is a bit more saggy. Maybe she has perkier boobs on one side. LOL I want to expand the canvas and finish it out.

[aggie93]

NR - Here is an update on Milk Bath. As far as her left boob, I think it was a little misleading. Part of her upper boob was her shoulder, causing it to look like it was larger and standing up a bit more. I just hadn't gotten to render it like I would like. I worked on that as well as her stomach, which seems to be a little flat; no deminsion.

More comments please!http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5403/femalelaying012hr9.jpg

[aggie93]

Milk Bath update (WIP for 11/30/2006):
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/536/femalelaying012sl8.jpg
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2701/femalelaying014kj0.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4822/femalelaying015dy2.jpg

There has got to be a better way of coloring. I also think she is looking a little too bronzy. Next highlights! See ya later!

[NR43]

you know... I can't help but thinking her head seems too narrow.
I also have a problem with her right shoulder, it doesn't look right.

Try putting your hand in a sink filled with water (or milk if you want to go all the way) and carefully observe the edges where the milk touches the skin. I think you will end up with harder edges in your painting.

[aggie93]

you know... I can't help but thinking her head seems too narrow.
I also have a problem with her right shoulder, it doesn't look right.

Try putting your hand in a sink filled with water (or milk if you want to go all the way) and carefully observe the edges where the milk touches the skin. I think you will end up with harder edges in your painting.

NR - Now that you look at it when you are awake you see it. The head is too small. I will work on the shoulder and the milk's edges and get those sharper. Thanks for the comments.

[anandpg]

Oh!:argh:.. double post... sorry!!:blush:

[anandpg]

Hi Aggie.. the milk-bath drawing is awesome:thumbsup:... I agree with NR43 on the hard edges, though.

[aggie93]

Hi Aggie.. the milk-bath drawing is awesome:thumbsup:... I agree with NR43 on the hard edges, though.

Anandpg - Thanks for the comments. I will work on those. I have a quesiton about 3d if you are willing.

[razz]

Hey, Aggie, great progression looking at the first page and the last one, keep going, don't stop!

[aggie93]

Hey, Aggie, great progression looking at the first page and the last one, keep going, don't stop!

Razz - Thanks for the comments. This has been an adventure. I want to even take it farther. I do not plan to stop. I almost completely stopped my traditional work though. I also want to start 3d work. Any pointers?

[razz]

I would take a good thought before doing that. I was a total 3d guy doing traditional drawing at the art school. No serious stuff at all. Was just playing. I was always interested in human figure, so I decided to learn anatomy to help me with 3d characters. Now do you see lots of 3d work at my thread? Of course not. Because I decide to become a 2d after starting to learn, which was a bit more than a half year ago. Now I have no time for 3d, not that I wouldn't want to learn 3d, but because I'm in love with drawing and painting. I didn't think this would happen, but it id, and, well, I'm happy about it, I found what I love the most. Now I can only be mad about not finding this out earlier.
Of course, that's just my story :) It's really fun, 3d I mean, but 2d conquered my world.
Oh, but I see I'm not answering your question. Well, I worked with Maya, great program. Would suggest you to start with it, if you decide to (shut up max lovers!). The newest, Maya 8, is very user friendly. And just start with simple stuff. Modeling at first, simple objects. Don't try to hit the full figure the first day. Look for some tutorials, learn from them, practise.
Though I do think that if you start 3d you won't have time for 2d stuff. And me, I'm a 2d lover :)

Good luck there :thumbsup:

[Zephyri]

Hey Ags! Long time no see! And wow, this was a great surprise, you've come on leaps and bounds with the digital art! That last piece is looking particularly promising, i really like the use of the negative white space to pick out the figure, but defintely harden up on the edges of where the white stops and the body starts, you can't really blur water/milk unless you're photographing it while its moving... and her pose is so still and peaceful it'd be lovely to just finish off the serenity with some nice strong lines.

[aggie93]

Hey Ags! Long time no see! And wow, this was a great surprise, you've come on leaps and bounds with the digital art! That last piece is looking particularly promising, i really like the use of the negative white space to pick out the figure, but defintely harden up on the edges of where the white stops and the body starts, you can't really blur water/milk unless you're photographing it while its moving... and her pose is so still and peaceful it'd be lovely to just finish off the serenity with some nice strong lines.

Thanks Sam! I haven't heard from you in a while. Thought you hit the big time! I will change the milk lines and work on her hair. I like your avatar. What's been going on?

[aggie93]

Well, after enough comments on the milk, I decided to work on it. Here is what I got so far.http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/8350/femalelaying016aa9.jpg

[NR43]

definetely better, although quite a bit of work to do still...
also the hand looks a bit awkward to me. I think it's the way the ring-finger bends.

Also, to pick up on razz' 3D/2D story...

I've been playing with 3D for years without making anything really good... wasn't learning because I didn't have a plan... it's a loooot of fun making a model in blender or max, but a model is just a model....

If you want to make excellent 3D... you must be able to make excellent 2D... that's my opinion.

I still have a plan to pick up 3D... in 6-10 years from now (I want to make an animated short one day). I think one can learn a lot of the essential things needed by doing traditional work. So please don't stop that, I would even encourage you to do more traditional work than you ever did (it sure is helping me, I'm learning faster than ever) :D

[razz]

To add what NR said. After all, I do think that 2d and 3d add to one another. That's sort of why we had to have sculpting (from clay) lessons at the art school, to have a better understanding of the form in space. But we don't have any sculpting lessons for some reasons...I can't really tell if 3d helped me travel to 2d a lot, but I understand the forms much better. I can more or less do boolean in my mind :D
It's your decision, Aggie, but I'd take Johan's suggestion and do loads of traditional work.

[Therverian]

Looking over this piece you have made some strong improvements on it, the milk lines are starting to look stronger, though some fine tuning may be necessary (right fore-arm possibly?). The belly, as you pointed out, is starting to take nice shape but still looks a little flat. Keep up the work, you are making this come along very nicely.

[aggie93]

NR, Razz and Therverian - Thanks for the encouraging words and critical comments about "Milk Bath". You guys, I assume, are in the digital art world for a living. I am just a hobbiest. I have been an amatuer artist all my life. It is a passion that allows me to get away from my normal work load. Without formal classes, I have learned everything by trial and error. This is my same approach with digital art. Today's time makes it so much easier through the internet and forums such as this. I post on three sites. My traditional, now digital, is being posted on TSOFA, my finished works on DeviantArt, and my digital work on this site. The most constructive critism comes from this site. I have participated in Reb's OFDWs and posted my WIP on this thread. Inevitably, you guys have always lead me to a productive change in my works through you kind comments. I wouldn't have gotten this far if it wasn't for the anatomy forum of CGTalk. Thanks!

[aggie93]

OK guys here is a question. How do you resize the canvas? I would like to finish out her head and feet.

[razz]

If PS, then go to image > image size (or canvas size, if you want to extend it to one or other side) , and add whatever you want.
It Painter, go to canvas > resize (canvas size for extending into chosen side/sides).
And yes, art is my life :arteest:And one day, hopefully, I'll do art for a living. Gotta finish school after that an art academy, you know :)

[aggie93]

Thanks Razz, but I cannot get it to open that drop down menu. It is like it is not active. It will go to the resize but that expands the whole drawing not just the margins.

I am starting a new painting. Our professional society has an auction every summer from things donated by other surveyors. I decided to volunteer a painting. Since it will be digital, I thought to make it unique, as a print, is to make ten signed original copies only. They can bid on a price to sell each one and buy as many as they want. The rest can be placed on the society's website to sell. It is to raise money anyway. What is everyone's view on that way of marketing digital works?

Here is a loose sketch of what I am doing. It is partly from an old advertisement for surveying equipment, about 1900 circa. I am going to change up the background, women and the dresses a little from the original. I guess you could say bring it up to date. It is on an 11" x 17" canvas.

Without further ado, 2006 Surveying Etiquette WIP 1:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/942/06surveyingpt3.gif

[NR43]

aggie
you have to make the canvas the active layer in the layers dialog first.
Then do as Razz suggests: go to
canvas
canvas size
add pixels to top, left, right or bottom as you desire and
press ok :D

[aggie93]

Thanks NR43. I am sure that will help.

[aggie93]

I noticed I haven't posted any of my WIP from the OFDW 20. Here is from last night. I need to work on her face... ugly!

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3516/ofdw2017a008mm4.jpg

[Mu]

What is everyone's view on that way of marketing digital works?

hey aggie,

afaik, that's the way professional artists doing exhibitions and working digitally do it. They do a small series and then enhance each print manually. For some artists this can go as far as working on the print with acrylics or other colors as well as, for example, bleaching parts with chemicals and so on.

That way they do in fact sell originals or unique pieces of art.

Reeeeally nice value study on the OFDW piece, btw!
Hint for that study: be cautious not to go to light from the start, because you run the risk of running out of value range for the highlights too soon. Remember that if you want light parts in your image there's two ways to do that:
- you can lighten parts up
- or you can darken neighbouring parts down!
starting from overall darker values gives you more range to play with.

:)

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu - Thanks for the comments. I did tend to go to white with her off the bat. That is what is hurting me.

It is not that I want to go professional with this hobby, but if I can make a few dollars to help pay for my toys, that would be great. And who knows, maybe I can make enough to keep a good side income. I also want to produce a painting for an auction coming up this summer and do some commissions. Thanks for the advice.

[aggie93]

This is an update on my K&E

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/300/06surveying002au7.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is the final of "Milk Bath"

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/66/femalelaying018br9.jpg

[aggie93]

Females love 'em. They are fun to draw. I was just sketching from memory and decided to ink it. That is interesting. It creates a new layer called ink. Oh well. I rearranged the layers to let me sketch be on top of the ink. 10 minutes.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/2773/sketchdr7.jpg

[aggie93]

This is one I started to basically do a study. This portrait is coming from a different approach. I did a fill first. Now I am using the airbrush to sketch out the outline. I will slowly work in the rendering as I go. Trial and error is the only way I learn.

http://img331.imageshack.us/img331/6775/sonja1yu7.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is an update on the portrait from late last night.
http://img116.imageshack.us/img116/2235/sonja001wg6.jpg

[Gord-MacDonald]

nice to see all of your hard work! :thumbsup:

Gord

[aggie93]

Thanks Gord, come back anytime and visit and please feel free to comment.

Here is my update from this morning.
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7388/sonja001ap2.jpg

[aggie93]

Update. Added water. Having problem with ripples in the water. Anyone? Help?!

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4425/sonja001df7.jpg

[NR43]

don't be afraid to use reference Davey.
Pictures of water will really help you.

Water reflects, in order to make the reflections look interesting, there should be something to reflect ;)

The painting also needs more contrast. Go darker for the darker parts and brighter for the highlights. Blend more when going from dark to bright and vice versa, but make sure not to make your edges too soft. Showing some hard edges here and there will create more depth to your character.

anatomically spoken, I'd say her nose is kinda wide for a female. I think her neck should be defined more as well.

Hope this helps

take care,
43

[aggie93]

NR - Yea your right. It was looking so good last night, but this morning is a different story. I need to start over with the painting portion.
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5424/sonja002re3.jpg

[aggie93]

I found a photo reference for the chest. I think I will start over. I worked for just five minutes to get this sketch.
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2982/capture1fk3.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is an update: Trying something new again. Airbrush with heavy constrasts then used the blender tool to smudge smooth surfaces. Seems to be working better.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1876/sonja003bm0.jpg

[anandpg]

Hmmm... nice work, aggie... its a lot better after you started using the reference image. The breasts look a bit over-emphasised, though.. Maybe you could tone down the shading on the inside edge of the breasts slightly.

[aggie93]

Hmmm... nice work, aggie... its a lot better after you started using the reference image. The breasts look a bit over-emphasised, though.. Maybe you could tone down the shading on the inside edge of the breasts slightly.

Do you mean between the breasts or shadowing the breasts themselves. Here is an update, mainly the face and hair.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/5262/sonja003ht9.jpg

Maybe to much highlights on the boobs.

[NR43]

make the breasts suffer a bit more from gravity (remove the darker greys at the top side of the breasts)

also, make the collar bones show, as well as her ribcage...
try to find different references for a female torso of a skinny woman, different angles will give you more insight on how and where to place the ribs, bones, muscles,...

you're making progress, keep going

[aggie93]

make the breasts suffer a bit more from gravity (remove the darker greys at the top side of the breasts)

also, make the collar bones show, as well as her ribcage...
try to find different references for a female torso of a skinny woman, different angles will give you more insight on how and where to place the ribs, bones, muscles,...

you're making progress, keep going

NR43 - I did find a reference. That is probably not making me look good. But look at a couple of posts earlier.

[Intervain]

I think it would be nicer to have reference of natural breasts - those are MOST DEFINITELY implants :) and they just don't look natural, they look like she's having a permanent and invisible push-up bra on there!

if you'd still like young and not too 'gravity stricken' example [which might actually be more interesting to paint] I think this picture might help:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/Intervain/breast.jpg


cheers and keep them studies coming!

[aggie93]

Intervain - Yes, I realized those were not natural, but trying to find a head on shot of them with the arms down were difficult. I like your photo better.

[aggie93]

Update with a new photo reference for the face. Added a dress.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/3832/sonja004uh4.jpg

[aggie93]

Added color, I am a little tired of this one. Maybe after Christmas I will pick it back up. Merry Chirstmas and Happy New Year to Everyone!

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6706/sonja005tm9.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is a piece I did for an hour. Just color no grey scale work. Acryllics and blender. Works better for me apparently. I will try and finish this up later.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/3598/back002gr8.jpg

[NR43]

The last one looks a lot better Aggie!
the torso seems a bet long though (even though it's stretched)
the arms need a lot of work
when the torso is stretched, the ribcage should be very visible.
do you have any anatomy books?

Studying body parts: heads, neck and shoulders, arms, chest/torso, legs, etc separately will give you more insight on how and where muscles and bones are visible.

Why not pick up a pencil or ballpen?
I would really really love to see you doing some muscle studies :D

nevertheess, you are making a lot of progress. Your proportions are greatly improving. I really like the shading in the last one. also, how you handled the reflections... very nice :)

Keep it up mate :bounce:

edit: just thought if this... I think I know what it was that caused this "untransparant" thing around your lines in painter...
you were using pencil brushes right? do you work in rather low resolutions? anyway, it doesn't occur if you use the pencil brushes on the canvas layer... hope that helps
cya

[aggie93]

NR - It was when I was using acryllics it gave me the white haze edge. I think it had something to do with the opacity. It did occur with the pencils. My resolution is set at 75 for a 6 X 9 canvas, equated to about 3MB.

[aggie93]

Yea, leaving to Colorado in the morning; 430 AM to be exact. Thought I'd get in an update. I worked on her hands and left arm a little.

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6159/back002cx9.jpg

[NR43]

75dpi at 6 x 9 inch = 450*675 px

the image in your last post is 500 x 600 px, so that can't be it.
is it maybe 300dpi at 6 x 9 inch? That would sound more logical...

Still, I would suggest to go even higher if your pc can handle it.

[aggie93]

My computer can handle it. I just do not know what I am doing. I set up the size at the beginning to handle a 6X9 in at 75 to 100 dpi. Then when I import the drawing into imageshack.com it converts it into something that handles a 15 in monitor. Not sure what conversions goes on there.

[NR43]

Aggie

I think you will have a better idea on how big your image is when you set it to pxels instead of inches.

The dpi (dots per inch) are an indication for printing usage.
If you plan to print images, it's best to work at 300dpi, which is commonly accepted as a certainty for decent print quality.

You can calculate your required resolution as follows:

Say you want to create a painting that will be printed in a magazine, sized A4:

A4 = 210mm × 297mm or 21cm x 29.7cm
1 inch = 2.54cm

thus A4 is 8.26inch x 11.69inch

So if you want to be able to print at 300dpi, you'll need a minimum resolution of:

width: 8.26inch x 300dpi = 2478 pixels
height: 11.69inch x 300dpi = 3508 pixels

In other words, when you start a new file in Painter you can either:

1. enter the width ( minimum 2478) and height (minimum 3508) in pixels (then the "pixels per inch" setting doesn't matter)

or

2.when you choose to do it like you did before, you ought to set the dpi at 300 and adjust the width and height to respectively 8.26 and 11.69...

if you want to be able to print on A4 at 300 "dots per inch"
---
Ofcourse you don't have to work at these resolutions, but it's recommendable to do so, or even higher if possible...

I hope this whole dpi thing is a bit clear to you now :)

[aggie93]

Here is my completed "Back".

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/5619/back003jq8.jpg

[reaveress]

Hi! I looked through your thread i must say you progressed like crazy and you certainly got the hang of Painter very quickly, i gave up on it after a couple of hours-too baffling :)

As of your last picture-you managed the skin wonderfully it really looks alive, almost real and the foreshortening of the arm came out great. Maybe its just me, but her stomach looks a little strange narrowing down like that. She seems well-built so it should bulge a bit in the lower abs region, i hope u understood what i mean)
Cheers :)

[aggie93]

Hi! I looked through your thread i must say you progressed like crazy and you certainly got the hang of Painter very quickly, i gave up on it after a couple of hours-too baffling :)

As of your last picture-you managed the skin wonderfully it really looks alive, almost real and the foreshortening of the arm came out great. Maybe its just me, but her stomach looks a little strange narrowing down like that. She seems well-built so it should bulge a bit in the lower abs region, i hope u understood what i mean)
Cheers :)

Thank you very much for your kind words reaveress. Words like yours are an encouragement for me and makes me want to keep going. I am an amature artist. I delt mostly with traditional work until August when I purchased a tablet PC and bought Painter. It took time to get used to the tools and the brushes. They work so much differently than traditional mediums. Do not give up, especially after an hour or so. I still get the "I cannot do this" feeling on some pieces. If you get stuck on one, drop it and pick up another. As you can tell from my thread, that is what I did.

My educational background is in medicine. I studied anatomy and comparative anatomy. I understand what you are saying about her lower abs. In her pose her stomach went straight down from her rib cage to her pelvic bone then changed directions a little. I may have over exaggerated her pelvic bone protrusion a little to much and I think that is what you are seeing. She was a very skinny model.

Thanks for your input. Do you have a sketch thread yet? I noticed you have very few posts. Are you new to the forum or art in general?

[reaveress]

Yes i`m new here, but i`ve already made a scetchbook thread) I`m more of a photoshop artist, when i get suicidal i`ll have another go in painter)
If you get stuck on one, drop it and pick up another
Thats a good idea actually)) I tend to stick to every single project and do hardly any exercises so i don`t get any better mostly. I`ll follow everyones advice and do more studies\scetches to train my hands and eyes :)

[aggie93]

...but i`ve already made a scetchbook thread...

What is the link...or maybe I will just get out of my thread and look?

[aggie93]

My contribution to the 15 mintue sketchathon.

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9707/15min070108ev1.jpg

[reaveress]

Did you do that without any sketch at all? Very impressive! :thumbsup: Actually the values on this are great)) I usually just do the linework for the sketches, cant seem to get the hang of placing simple shadows and highligts))
Cheers :)

[aggie93]

Did you do that without any sketch at all? Very impressive! :thumbsup: Actually the values on this are great)) I usually just do the linework for the sketches, cant seem to get the hang of placing simple shadows and highligts))
Cheers :)

No reaveress, I left it all on one layer. Therefore the sketch lines were absorbed into the paint. Your highlights and shadows are good, you can use more grey scales and then start to blend them together with the blender tool to smooth it up some. I am really liking your laying girl pose you have going. Make sure about the antomical correctness in the head though. It seems to be getting elongated.

[aggie93]

My sketchaton contribution
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3640/15min070110cv7.jpg

[aggie93]

I started a commission piece for my cousin's wedding. I have two light sources, the sun and the camera position. This is two days work (not consistant or consecutive). About two and half hours. I'll post WIPs of it.

Comments please!

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5105/cousinsqc7.jpg

[Cyanid]

I like the right person more than the left.
Nice try on skintones, good to see you searching and trying.
I see too many hues now, try to stick to one or two. I see some green, pink, brown. the colors need to be more consistant...now the right one has a much more pale skin than the left one, and she has a pink spot on the left side of her head.
But its a good start. make sure the construction of the faces are good (something I always fail). there seem to be some problems with the left person. the mouth bugs me I think, the head is a bit to round too. can you post your ref?

I'm looking forward to see it finished. good luck!

-Cya

[reaveress]

Hi aggie! Your cow sketch is so cute :bounce:

I like your last piece, the pose is pretty original and hard to do. I agree thiugh that maybe you started on all the diffirent skintones a little early. Maybe do some rough lineart of everything mark out the faces with guides that kind of stuff. I like the eyes on your models but the lips seem a bit thin in myopinion and on the right one dont they slant a little heavily downwards on the left? Also her nose looks a little weird.
And i remember reading in the colour workshop that in the background when using colour it is better to use the colours from your picture or complementary colours, not gray because it will be difficult to fit the models into the background.
I hope something that i`ve said will help you! :)

[aggie93]

I am going to try this again in grey scale.

[batte812]

Hi Aggie, nice progress with the digital work. The cow turned out well! On the portrait: the lower lips seem to protrude to much, which gives them a sad look. Maybe you should draw the lower lip a bit narrower than the upper - and make it slide underneath the upper lip at the corner (i hope this makes any sence - you should of course look at your reference).

Keep going!

[aggie93]

Hi Aggie, nice progress with the digital work. The cow turned out well! On the portrait: the lower lips seem to protrude to much, which gives them a sad look. Maybe you should draw the lower lip a bit narrower than the upper - and make it slide underneath the upper lip at the corner (i hope this makes any sence - you should of course look at your reference).

Keep going!

Thanks Bate. I will work on that. It is still in the rough stage.

[aggie93]

Close up of the right girl's face.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3818/capture1qp8.jpg

[aggie93]

Update with reference:

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/9682/capture2yv2.jpg

[Zephyri]

Hee hee, the cow is great! As is the top one, of the guys hanging off the rings. This latest colour work has a couple of issues... the facial features on the girl on the right are bigger than those of the girl on the left in the photo, due to distortion from the camera lens, but I think you could stand to make yours a little bigger, especially the mouth and lips. The girl on the right's face seems to be skewed a little to the left too... but a nice mix of colours for the skin tone, and you've got the curve of the cheek on the left girl down very well. Keep at it!

[aggie93]

Thanks Zeph, I am having a hard time with these faces. I might have just went detail too fast. I do not use a graph but that may help too.

[Zephyri]

I'd say if you're really going for likeness, use a grid, there's no shame in it! I use them frequently, especially when I'm after a true likeness. Then maybe try just silhouetting the whole form and working down into your details with a progressively smaller brush... it takes a good degree of self control but I think you might be surprised at the results!

[aggie93]

Thanks Zeph, again! I am really not going for true likeness, but close enough to tell who they are. I will give it a try!

[aggie93]

I couldn't use the grid. I already started it in a certain scale so they did not match from the reference. I started the wedding dresses. I kept the original sketch layer on so you can see where I am going.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9908/cousinsze7.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is some quick sketches for practice.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/6562/sketchesjan16wl1.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is a quick sketch to warm up before another 30 minutes on the cousins pict.

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9871/10min070118hi3.jpg

And for my cousin's wedding picture:

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/408/cousinsyj6.jpg

[Intervain]

Hey Davey!

The painting is coming along really nicely [one thing I've learned - there's no black in nature! use purples for instance... oh I love that colour so much, especially with skin]!
And oh my that yellow bg on one of the sketches is powerful :)
You might want to read on opposing curves a little! This will help you construct your sketches way more easily :thumbsup: [there's an article somewhere in this forum - ehem :blush::surprised can't find it now... but Becca links to it every now and again on other people's threads so it should not be a prob!]

keep it up - a good tip, well I find it helpful anyway so you might not want to follow it LOL, with drawing on colourful bgs: I use only 1 colour - same as bg on 2 different layers - Multiply for shadows and Screen for highlights! Hope it makes life easier ;)

Keep going!

[aggie93]

You might want to read on opposing curves a little! This will help you construct your sketches way more easily

drawing on colourful bgs: I use only 1 colour - same as bg on 2 different layers - Multiply for shadows and Screen for highlights!

INtervain - Explain opposing curves to an idiot, please. I also need further instructions on the backgrounds you are talking about too!

[Rebeccak]

Heya aggie,

Link to the Opposing Curves article is in my signature. :)

[aggie93]

Heya aggie,

Link to the Opposing Curves article is in my signature. :)

I think I understand. And yes, guilty of the ().:scream:

[Intervain]

what I ment about coloured bgs is that sketching on them, the way you attempted is easier if you draw with the same colour as the bg - only to get light areas put it on a layer in screen mode and to get darker areas put it on multiply... that's the way I do those sketches in photoshop :) I know you're using Painter but it should be just as easy... [I think - I kinda suck at Painter or rather dislike it enough not to want to learn it ;)]

[aggie93]

Thanks Intervain. I will try that on this sketch I am working on. This is from the book How to Draw the Human Figure by Louis Gordon. I want to try using this book to do my warm ups and practices.

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/5416/torsostudy6wk.jpghttp://img309.imageshack.us/img309/5573/torsostudy0017mo.jpg

[aggie93]

Intervain - I did what you said. What am I doing wrong? I have a layer for the sketch, one for the shadow (multiply), and one for the highlight (screen) and one under these for a solid skin tone (default).

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2172/torsostudy0039fy.jpg

[aggie93]

I am ready to start the background.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/9049/cousins7va.jpg

Here is the reference photo.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8006/picture0016vn.jpg

Are there any suggestions to this background.

Oh, and I need help with how to do the hair!

[aggie93]

First Step: loose drawing of the original, sketch pencil
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/734/mc10lu.jpg

Second Step: Broad brush strokes, airbrush No. 30
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5436/mc10015bm.jpg

Third Step: Blending and smaller brush, blender stump 30 and airbrush no. 20
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5436/mc10015bm.jpg

[Zephyri]

Hey Ags, looking pretty good with the cousins pic, i like the dresses in particular, and that photo background looks a-okay to me, the lighting actually fits nicely with how they are lit. As far as the hair goes, do you have any brushes in painter that leave spaced brush marks? I don't know the program that well, but I have a couple of very nifty brushes in photoshop for doing hair. Failing that, I'd say start with a block solid colour, then try laying in some more sections in a slightly lighter tone, then go back and add detail into the sections with both a lighter and the original dark tone. Leave the highlights til absolutely last, or they can override the hair easily. Try squinting at the original picture to see where the lights and darks are, especially on the blonde - her hair is mostly dark brown apart from those chunks of blonde caught in the light. So maybe try laying those in in the darker goldy colour you have andd detailing back in with the brown, then add the paler yellow highlights at the very end, and not too much!

hope that helps a little. :/

[aggie93]

Zeph - You do not know how much your comments mean to me, especially after a comment I got from a different forum on all of my digital works.

I can create brushes. The brush I have been using for the hair was in the acryllics. It was the dry bristel brush. It left spaces in the brush strokes. I will try and use the technique you discribed.

Thanks!

[aggie93]

Update on Master'shttp://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9458/mc1003qn1.jpg http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8500/mc1004fs5.jpg

[aggie93]

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2210/mc1006ij5.jpghttp://img262.imageshack.us/img262/8209/picture044ak6.jpg


A small update of the head!

[Zephyri]

it's amazing the difference a little detail makes! The whole of the body seems to have more substance with the face put in! I've not seen the original reference, but it strikes me that her neck should curve in a little more at the back, where the skull would poke out over it. You might also want to try making your whole background black too, as she seems to be fading inot black in the shadows round her stomach and arms. It might help you see all the relative values. Have you ever given thought to just detailing certain parts of the image much more than others? A truly great man once tried to teach me that, but I was too young to get it at the time, and I think it might suit your work from what i see here... maybe concentrate on her face and hands...

[aggie93]

...I've not seen the original reference...

I edited the above message to include the reference.

[Rebeccak]

Heya Aggie,

Making some really nice progress here. :) If you can afford it, I recommend purchasing Photoshop down the line as well...there's just so much more detailing you can get more easily I think with that application. But it looks like you are progressing steadily with Painter - I think you might try to do a really refined Skull Exercise study - to see how far you can really push your rendering skills on a simple object.

Looking forward to more. :)

[aggie93]

Heya Aggie,

Making some really nice progress here. :) If you can afford it, I recommend purchasing Photoshop down the line as well...there's just so much more detailing you can get more easily I think with that application. But it looks like you are progressing steadily with Painter - I think you might try to do a really refined Skull Exercise study - to see how far you can really push your rendering skills on a simple object.

Looking forward to more. :)

Thanks Rebecca. I will give the skull study a try. I wanted to wait until you got the anatomy lecture thingy working. The position of the most recent one is really ackward. When I was first getting ready to purchase the software I posted which one to get to the forum. There were mixed responses. I went with painter because I thought photoshop was more for photo manipulations than painting.

I still want a more painting effect than to be realistic. I would like my work to come out that if you are standing about ten feet away it looks real, but an up close look reveals all the complex brush strokes to comprise the whole thing. I have always been amazed at others pieces from this perspective.

I have an exam on Friday so no painting for me until after then. Have a great week everyone.

[aggie93]

Huh, I posted my beginning last night on this but it didn't store. I will post the start and my update now.

I am doing this for an auction to raise money. The idea comes from an 1906 advertisement for surveying equipment. I am changing it up a little by replacing the women and building in the background. The positioning of everything will remain the same.

Started last night late:
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/5489/historicsurveyingoz6.jpg

This morning's update:
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7011/rightclosesr1.jpg

[aggie93]

OK, I have to stop here for this morning. I have parenting duties. I am finished with my victorian girl for now. I will start on my saloon girl on the left later. I need to research for a picture of the capitol for the center. Any how, here is an hour later. So far a total of three hours spent on this since I started last night.

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1551/historicsurveying003ib9.jpg

[aggie93]

I had a little time yet to do some more. Here is the saloon girl.

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5839/historicsurveying004xh3.jpg


Close up on left girl:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9461/leftclosekg2.jpg

[Rebeccak]

Aggs,

At what res are you working? :) I think that if you up the res, even if just a little bit, then you will be able to refine details to a much greater degree. Nice start here! Your proportions and values are looking good so far. I would just say that as you start to refine, add some sharper edges where necessary and continue to make the value gradations more subtle.

Cheers!

[aggie93]

Aggs,

At what res are you working? :) I think that if you up the res, even if just a little bit, then you will be able to refine details to a much greater degree. Nice start here! Your proportions and values are looking good so far. I would just say that as you start to refine, add some sharper edges where necessary and continue to make the value gradations more subtle.

Cheers!

I have it set at 100 on an 18 x 24 inch canvas. What res should it be at? Is it too late to up it?

[Rebeccak]

Aggs, you might try upping a copy of your current version to 300. Since you're still at the beginning of your painting, it's fine to upres, just so long as you continue to paint on it after you up the resolution. :)

[aggie93]

Thanks Reb, I upped it to 150 res. I can delete the color layer and do some more rendering. Here is what I done a little more.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3527/lockleftad2.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is today's update, added Texas capitol and some color. I started on some of the background. I have about two more hours in it now. This adds up to a total of five hours.

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3484/historicsurveying006ej8.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is a close-up on the hands of the girl to the left. I was kinda please with the outcome of the viens. I painted strokes of shadows and highlights, then used the blender to smooth it out.

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9445/handsonleftmu0.jpg

[Rebeccak]

Aggs,

I think the main thing I would suggest is using less black - try avoiding black and getting more of a range of values. The black in combination with the yellow pallor of the skin is making the figures look a bit ghoulish. I would recommend using a warm / deep reddish brown for some of the shadow areas - just experiment and see what happens by using a limited palette (minus the black). Hope this helps. :)

[aggie93]

Aggs,

I think the main thing I would suggest is using less black - try avoiding black and getting more of a range of values. The black in combination with the yellow pallor of the skin is making the figures look a bit ghoulish. I would recommend using a warm / deep reddish brown for some of the shadow areas - just experiment and see what happens by using a limited palette (minus the black). Hope this helps. :)

I understand but everyone suggests painting in grey scale then add color as a fill on another layer. Now I am confused.

[aggie93]

Here is tonight's update. Another hour. I am trying to clean it up and add some background. The reference is a 1906 add for a instrument company. I tried to keep some original but change some up.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5213/historicsurveying007rc0.jpg

[aggie93]

Just another update

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/8918/historicsurveying008xi8.jpg

[Cyanid]

hi aggie, I think this is coming along really nice!
the blue cloth is well done. I agree with rebecca on the use of blacks.
In nature you won't find any complete blacks. and when you use a color layer on top of a 100% black area, it will stay black.
keep it up!

[Mu]

Hi Davey,

yesterday I saw the photos you put into that thread in references and I must say that the one of your family (along with your comment) was really heart warming to see!

I understand but everyone suggests painting in grey scale then add color as a fill on another layer. Now I am confused.

Well, there's no contradiction between Rebecca's advice and the "greyscale first" method.

Besides it's a good idea to "finish" the painting in greyscale, creating all of the lighting information and form and only then start colouring the whole thing.
Even then, if you apply color on a separate layer set to blending mode "color" (or another blending mode which allows for the use of only the value information of the layer benath it) you could still go back to the value layer and correct something, but the thought is that getting form straight first is the main goal.

BTW, what Cyanid said about black staying what it it is true for white also. These two never change when being coloured.
White would only occur on very well lit very glossy surfaces (e.g. the core of the highlight in a wet eyeball, illuminated by a strong light source)
Black only where no light was present!
So, if you define a black area you practically say "no single photon of light ever reached this area!"
If you think about it that's rather improbable. Bouncing light with the colour of the reflecting object (floor, walls etc.) will pretty much illuminate everything in a room. In the case of skin you even get an increase in saturation (not in value) in the shades.

Did I mention there's the colour info palette which you can set to showing Hue,Saturation,Value instead of RGB (Red Green Blue)? If you do that you can access the sliders for each parameter and get good control over your colours and values.
On your coloring layer, only saturation and hue would be used, though, of course, as value parameter would get its info from the layer beneath...

You are makin great progress, I think... still checkin out your thread...:)

[aggie93]

Mr. Mu and Cyanid - Thanks for your comments and I understand what you are saying about the shadows and highlights. When you do you work in grey scale first then color it on another layer, what do you set that layer to do? I set my color layer as a soft layer. My cousin painting was without grey, all color. And it appeared I created to many different colors by blending. Thanks for your comments. This is how I am learning. Keep them coming.

[aggie93]

I have hitten a low on my art work. I feel like I am going no where. My blending keeps messing up the painting. I decided to start on a new one to try a new method. It is of Mary Magdalen. Here is the first sketch.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1491/magdalendla9.jpg

Has anyone every used impasto or the brushes in arcryllics to get textured brush strokes? I think that is what I would like to try.

[aggie93]

Anyone know what I am doing wrong in painting? I am using multiply layer for shadows, screen layer for highlights and another default layer to bring in smaller brushes and softer brushes using pick up underlying color.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5341/magdalenamq1.jpg

[Zephyri]

Hey ags, don't feel too down with your art, you're making some good progress of late, certainly in your understanding of mass. I'd agree with Mu on finishing a whole painting in greyscale before you start adding colour, maybe try converting the image you're working from to grayscale too, if it helps. Have you tried not using the multiply and screen modes, and actually picking shades of grey? This might help your understanding of tonal value too.

And then once thats done, try using the 'colour' mode and maybe the airbrush in painter to lay down some basic colours.

As for the acrylics, I've tried both those and the pallette knife, which is trickier to use, but gives some interesting effects. The acrylics weren't massively different to oils - for me, I should add, but I've not played about with them much - aside from the slightly more obvious brush shaped endings and the ability to turn the impasto setting on and off when using the thicker versions of the brushes. Which only seemed to make the program run slower for me, but they might have sorted that out with later versions (i'm on painter 8 at the minute).

It's difficult as I'm not too conversant with all painter's brushes, so I can't suggest which ones might work well for blending. Do you use the preset blenders when you blend? If you do, you might want to try the method that Lunatique suggests, of using any brush you like (so say you're using acrylics for arguments sake) rather than switching to the blender, you turn the resat (resaturation) value on the brush options down to 0% and use that instead, so you keep the original texture when you're pushing the paint about. I found that to be much more like using traditional paint.

Just some suggestions more than anything. Maybe you should just take an hour to play with all the brushes and find out which ones you like?

[Mu]

hey davey,

first things first: feeling down about one's art is a natural thing. I suspect it comes when you are really making progress, because it might have to do with the fact that your perception changes and all of a sudden you re-evaluate everything you do. Don't let it drag you down. It's a good thing.

I notice you are concerned with many technicalities of the app. Do away with those! When I am trying to learn something about painting in general (as opposed to learning something about the brushes or the app), I stay on the canvas all the time (that is: no layers at all!) and I don't use any of the standard variants on Painter.

I then use a simple round hard-edged brush and a simple round softedged brush (the latter for blending). This lets me concentrate on the painting instead of on the brushes or anything else.

I think I will post a zip of the two variants, so you can check them out.

[NR43]

I agree with Mu

don't use layers unless you are working on a big project (something you know will take 20hrs to finish or so)

I've put 2 brushes for painter IX.5 up in my thread to download. One is a basic round brush with a hard edge, based on an airbrush. It's the brush I mostly use to paint. Blending I do with the "just add water" brush. You can find it in the blenders brush category. I learned this technique from a tutorial from Don Seegmiller. Can't find the link right now but will post it here when I do.

If you do use layers, don't put them on screen or overlay. It will totally distort your feeling for value because you will paint your shadows lighter and your highlights darker than you want them.

first things first: feeling down about one's art is a natural thing. I suspect it comes when you are really making progress, because it might have to do with the fact that your perception changes and all of a sudden you re-evaluate everything you do. Don't let it drag you down. It's a good thing.


Mu is so right here. I hope you will get motivation out of this!

[aggie93]

Thanks guys for your uplifting comments. I think y'all are right in that I am worrying about the brushes and application more than the painting itself. I was doing better when I knew less about the different brushes.

How would I bring the brushes into painter once I download them?

[Mu]

hi davey, there's more than one way to do it, I am checkin it out and will post some more info when I upload the brushes...:thumbsup:

[aggie93]

Update on the girls. I tried to add more defined lines using oils instead of acryllics.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/462/historicsurveying009xa6.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is a little study I did to work on shape, shadows, and three grey study. This was done without reference. Took about twenty minutes.

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/7246/cartoon1tb8.jpghttp://img412.imageshack.us/img412/8499/cartoon2ol2.jpghttp://img329.imageshack.us/img329/139/cartoon3yu5.jpg

[reaveress]

Interesting interpretation of the human figure)
Why don`t you try the Doctor Bone way of doing refrenceless drawings? I`ve fallen in love with it :)

[aggie93]

WOW. I haven't been on in a while and look what happens. I am on page 4.

Here is what I did while on a camping trip. I wanted to do something with star clouds. I call her Stellar Bride.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/5965/weddingkx0.jpghttp://img480.imageshack.us/img480/5007/wedding001gw7.jpghttp://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8245/wedding003hm2.jpg

And the final:

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/7128/stellarbridetk1.jpg

[SpiritDreamer]

HEY....Aggie...:)
I like the feel of that last one.....maybe a darker sky towards the top of the painting...will add more to the night time feeling, and creat a greater sinse of depth in the sky....There is a great brush in the painter #9 program ..is that what you have, not sure...anyway, if you do, the brush is in the TINTING BRUSHES section in the brush catagories menu...it's about half ways down on the list in the TINTING brushs, it's called...SALTY...MAKE THE BRUSH SIZE BIG...MAKES NICE STARS, WITH A GLOW AROUND THEM...I just found it recently, and used it on a painting I was doing with a woman at night sitting on a rock..posted a few pages back in my sketch book thread...page #70...great little brush, check it out if you feel like it...:)
LOOKING GOOD..Aggie...KEEP PROGRESSING...GETTING BETTER WITH EACH ONE...:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

[aggie93]

My friend in Oslo and her baby girl. Started this one about an hour ago. Painter acrylic brushes and blenders.

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/259/ellaninaje5.jpg

[aggie93]

Nothing to do but paint and watch TV. I am liking the outcome, it is making me go on with this. Another hour and half:

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/2819/ellanina001tw9.jpg

[aggie93]

ate dinner working again.

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/4256/ellanina002ib7.jpg

[aggie93]

Last night I celebrated St. Patrick's day with an traditional Irish meal. Therefore this update is from Friday night. Worked on Ella a little more, she is a cute little girl.

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/9842/ellanina003nm8.jpg

[aggie93]

Worked a little just now. I am almost through. I need to do some refining to the facial features and very little to the clothes. I want the emphasis in the faces not the clothes.


http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5451/ellanina004nd8.jpg

[FateBringer]

HI aggie93

looking good, keep on pushing it :)
just a thought, i realize your not done yet...you may want to add some lighter color to the irises

Mark

[Rebeccak]

Hiya Aggie,

You're making great strides with this painting! Keep going, I think this is another leap for you. :)

[aggie93]

Fate - I will be working on the eyes and the skin some more. I do not feel good with them right now. I desperately need tutorials with hair.

Reb - Thanks for your words of encouragement. There are times that I feel my art is going nowhere then other times I do feel like I am making some progress. I think I found a medium I am getting comfortable with, like I do with graphite.

[FateBringer]

hey

hair tut (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=166&t=259468&highlight=enayla) if you want to check it out, i did it, very helpfull

Mark

[aggie93]

hey

hair tut (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=166&t=259468&highlight=enayla) if you want to check it out, i did it, very helpfull

Mark

Fate - OMG! Amazing! I will try!

[aggie93]

Before the battery dies on my laptop, I thought I'd post what I have done on my friend. I am adding definition. I need to smooth some of the edges a little to make her not look so old. I haven't tried the hair thing yet with that tutorial. I would love to import those brushes. I have never made brushes before. I have no clue where to start. Any-who, here is Nina and Ella:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3232/ellanina004gt3.jpg

[NR43]

skintones look a bit over-saturated I think but I agree with the others... this is remarkable progress you are making

keep at it!

[aggie93]

skintones look a bit over-saturated I think but I agree with the others... this is remarkable progress you are making

keep at it!
NR43 - What did you mean by "over-saturated"? And, thank you I am trying to get more definition.

[aggie93]

The hair tutorial is more difficult than it looks. I cannot create the brushes it talks about. Is there a place to buy specialized brushes?

Here is my update tonight on Nina and Ella. I am trying out different approaches to the hair. I will need to work on the background then it will be ready to print.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3747/ellanina004eg1.jpg

[FateBringer]

hey

i never have much luck with making brushes either, so i just took the general ideas in the tut and used the brush that came with the program

i have seen where people have posted their brushes for download for free, but never had any luck with that either. I'm sure someone here can help you though

Mark

[NR43]

With oversaturated I mean too much color or in other words too strong colors. I think it would feel more natural if you would desaturate the painting a bit more. It's easily done in painter, photoshop or gimp with a slider. Just make sure you save a backup of your file first so you still have that to work with in case you don't like the result.

the saturation issue could be caused by different monitor settings so if it looks ok with you never mind ;)

About creating brushes... in Painter it's not so hard...

Cris Palomino made a nice thread about it here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=199&t=431203)

Hope this helps you out
Keep at it!

[aggie93]

With oversaturated I mean too much color or in other words too strong colors. I think it would feel more natural if you would desaturate the painting a bit more. It's easily done in painter, photoshop or gimp with a slider. Just make sure you save a backup of your file first so you still have that to work with in case you don't like the result.

the saturation issue could be caused by different monitor settings so if it looks ok with you never mind ;)

About creating brushes... in Painter it's not so hard...

Cris Palomino made a nice thread about it here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=199&t=431203)

Hope this helps you out
Keep at it!

Thanks this will help. I will try the desaturate thingy.

[aggie93]

I am finished with this... I think. I want to print it out first and see how it looks. NR I tried the desat thing and could not get it to work right. I think I am just tired of working on it. Anyway here it is.

Nina og Ella

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/5728/ellanina005nm5.jpg

[aggie93]

I wanted to get a few finished up. Here is the commission piece of my cousin and her companion at their wedding in Hawaii.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9361/cousinsun2.jpg

[aggie93]

I haven't done anything in a while. I thought I'd do some studies. I got a cartoon 101 book for my son. Good ideas. I will try some.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6870/studyij6.jpg

[aggie93]

Back to some traditional work. I am still working on my Floral Series.

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/769/scan0005xz0.jpg

[aggie93]

OK I finished No. 3; White Calle. Here she is and my other two in the "Floral Series". I just entered all three in an art competition for August. I'll let you know how it turns out.

No. 3; White Calle
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2341/whitecallemn8.jpg

No. 1; Magnolia
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/1953/magnoliahg2.jpg

No. 2; Rose
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3852/rosetm9.jpg

[aggie93]

Here is a Nydia Loranzo study (WIP).

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/84/angeldx4.jpg

[aggie93]

I may work on it a little more later.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/6350/angel001gr2.jpg

[NR43]

Hi Aggie
can we see the ref of the last one?

looks like the arm is very thin. there is definetely something wrong with the breasts and the angle they have with the chest
for the drapery, I would suggest to paint the folds while keeping the natural flow of the cloth as a result of gravity in mind, and add light and shadow once you have the basic shapes.
Actually that's a common way of painting that is valid for everything that can be painted.

Looking forward to your next updates

[batte812]

Nice start on that last one! It has a good sence of depth to it. You will need to fix a few things ( as Nr 43 indicated). Keep going!

[aggie93]

UPdate My WIP and the original

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6430/angel002nj6.jpghttp://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9705/n50se2.jpg

[aggie93]

St Anger WIP

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3227/stanger001rb5.jpg

[aggie93]

An update, all memory. I need a model. I cannot get detailed without one! Help!

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3347/stanger002ik6.jpg

[Mu]

Hi Aggie,


just checking out your thread for the first time in months - you made pretty good progress!

Why did you stop with your copy of Nydia (hadn't heard the name before, btw...)? It's a fantastic start! This being digital, you could easily correct the overall gesture (watch how your version has a pretty upright back/neck while the original is actually pretty much crouched and relaxed) by cutting out the head and adjusting its tilt and all.

[NR43]

You know Aggie


I would really love to see you start drawing with a pencil...
If you get a mechanical pencil (0.5mm) you don't even have to sharpen it :)

... and do many many MANY pencil studies. Draw bones, muscles, gestures, portraits, objects, nature, architecture... quick sketches as well as longer studies...

... draw every day, even if it is only for 20-30min, but don't skip a single day...

... draw mostly from reference, whether it's from real life or from photographs, and go back to drawing from imagination every now and then. Then focus on the problems (in your last example the neck, the hip area, the foreshortened legs)... study the anatomy, the perspective and the foreshortening for each of your problems and then go back to your drawing from imagination. Try not to rush but take your time for it... if it takes 6 months to complete a piece at the highest standard you possibly can, so be it.

... above all, try to find a method that works for you (if above doesn't)
but sketch every day :)

It's all about practice... the more you practice, the more you improve (even if it is not always noticable to yourself). Try to think of it as a longterm plan, a plan for life. Every drawing/painting is only an exercise and it's one step (of hundreds of thousands) closer to the end of the road.

If you catch yourself getting frustrated, stuck,... be brave and let go. Summarize what you have achieved with the exercise and what problems you have encountered... and then it's a close step up to the next exercise :)

[aggie93]

Hi Aggie,


just checking out your thread for the first time in months - you made pretty good progress!

Why did you stop with your copy of Nydia (hadn't heard the name before, btw...)? It's a fantastic start! This being digital, you could easily correct the overall gesture (watch how your version has a pretty upright back/neck while the original is actually pretty much crouched and relaxed) by cutting out the head and adjusting its tilt and all.

Thanks Mr. Mu! I guess it is like my quote for my signature. I normally get bored with it because it seems it is not going anywhere and I move on. I will look at it again. I have been inspired to do this new one; I call it Saint Anger after the Metallica song. I have also gone through some stuff personally that has given me inspiration. After I finish it, I will look into Nydia again. I also have been working on some traditional stuff too! Thanks for stopping in every once in a while. Your words of encouragement keeps me going.

[aggie93]

You know Aggie


I would really love to see you start drawing with a pencil...
If you get a mechanical pencil (0.5mm) you don't even have to sharpen it :)

... and do many many MANY pencil studies. Draw bones, muscles, gestures, portraits, objects, nature, architecture... quick sketches as well as longer studies...

... draw every day, even if it is only for 20-30min, but don't skip a single day...

... draw mostly from reference, whether it's from real life or from photographs, and go back to drawing from imagination every now and then. Then focus on the problems (in your last example the neck, the hip area, the foreshortened legs)... study the anatomy, the perspective and the foreshortening for each of your problems and then go back to your drawing from imagination. Try not to rush but take your time for it... if it takes 6 months to complete a piece at the highest standard you possibly can, so be it.

... above all, try to find a method that works for you (if above doesn't)
but sketch every day :)

It's all about practice... the more you practice, the more you improve (even if it is not always noticable to yourself). Try to think of it as a longterm plan, a plan for life. Every drawing/painting is only an exercise and it's one step (of hundreds of thousands) closer to the end of the road.

If you catch yourself getting frustrated, stuck,... be brave and let go. Summarize what you have achieved with the exercise and what problems you have encountered... and then it's a close step up to the next exercise :)

Just curious NR, what exactly are you seeing wrong with my last painting? It is in its rough stages of laying down the paint. Just to let you know, I have been dowing some traditional sketches with HB, 2B and 6B graphites since I have been gone from here. I have only been copying master prints. I got a book of Waterhouse's works and started copying them with my pencils. I will have to scan a few and post them. I do not have time everyday to devote to art like I would love to. This is not my money maker, just a passion I have had all my life. As I get older, I do find it my get away for relaxation. I do not have time for formal education in the arts therefore specific directions from fellow artist is more directive for me. Again, like I told Mr. Mu. I appreciate the comments, keep them coming!

[NR43]

Well I've been trying to sketch over your WIP but it's not an easy pose you chose
So for now I try to explain with just words *blushes*
It's a good test to see if I remember anything from the B Hogarth book I'm reading ( Dynamic Figure Drawing) :)

The pelvic mass of a female is nearly as big as the chest mass. It is wider than the pelvic mass of a male.
The head should be more overlapping the torso from this angle.
The breasts: if you draw a line from each nipple to the point where both collarbones meet the sternum, the angle should appear like a 90° angle (yours is too narrow)

The foreshortening of the legs... well... it's very hard to get it right... because the pelvis is at another angle than the chest, I think the left upper leg needs more mass.

The arms: try to see the collarbones as an extension of the arms. (both arms = 1 unit)
I think the deltoid of her right arm is too high

I hope this helps. I will try to get a decent sketch of the pose (bloody hard this one omg) but I'm not promising anything ;)

[aggie93]

NR is this a little better?

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/4580/stanger002pl3.jpg

[NR43]

Hi

I'm here at work thinking about this pose and I have found out while sketching that the woman loses some of her elegance due to the foreshortening of her left leg. Now she is rotating her leg outward, to her left side, and it sort of breaks the flow of the rest of the pose.If you sketch her left leg more in sideview, the whole pose looks a lot more gracious.

I also think you should play with variations of the position of the head. Make her look straight up or down to her left knee or something.

Just to let you know, I have been dowing some traditional sketches with HB, 2B and 6B graphites since I have been gone from here. I have only been copying master prints. I got a book of Waterhouse's works and started copying them with my pencils. I will have to scan a few and post them.

Can we see them? :bounce:


I do not have time everyday to devote to art like I would love to. This is not my money maker, just a passion I have had all my life.


Not even 30 min a day? I know I know I can be a pain :p
But it's just a matter of making it a habbit really. At first I also found it hard... coming home from work, still having a lot of work to do at home (I have 3kids) and then finally... bamm... in the sofa... totall loss. Then I found out I can still sketch while being totall loss...
I hope you will find a solution too :D