F-117s and clouds

[jussing]

The planes are almost done, here's a test pass.

http://www.duck.dk/cgi/f117_09.png

Click here to download 900 kb Quicktime animation (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_09_web.mov)

They need some ambient occlusion, supersampling, and some more work around the cockpit, engines and radar sphere.

Lighting a F117 is a bitch, as its color can vary from pitch black (leaving out all your precious details), to a bright grey (which easily looks fake).

Look at the animation now, I might regret having them fly by the camera so fast, that you miss all the detail. Oh well, that's what I get for animating before texturing.

Cheers all,
- Jonas

[SoLiTuDe]

I was wondering what you were up to with all your chatting in the afterburn thread. =) Can't wait to see it rendered out completely. If that's the final timing I think i'd like to see the camera follow a bit closer for a bit longer :)

[jussing]

Hej Solitude, thanks for checking it out.

Yes, I'm totally going to try to fake volumetrics without plugins. :)

I agree with you on the camera move, but I didn't discover that until I had textured the bastard. :shrug: And now I just wanna get the shot done, so no time for re-animating.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[jussing]

Plane's done! Time to move on to clouds and mountains.

This is what comes directly out of the render, but I will tweak reflection, lighting, specular etc. in compositing.

Cheers,
- Jonas


http://www.duck.dk/cgi/f117_10.png

[jussing]

I've reanimated the shot to show off the model's shading and details better.

CLICK HERE to download 800 kb Quicktime animation (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_14_web.mov)

Animating an airplane is a compromise between three things:


Making it look cool, in terms of Michael Bay/Rob Cohen/Star Wars, and have stuff whoosh right by the camera
Making it look real, as if a real airplane was filming other real airplanes (meaning the camera doesn't get too close)
Showing of all that precious detail you spent weeks modelling and painting (which means getting the camera close to the planes, and not too fast)
I'm pretty happy with where the shot is now (which is a bit of all three things, but more 1 and 3 than the original shot ;) ), so I'll get to work on the environment.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[jussing]

The cloud work has begun!


Click here to download 1.5 MB Quicktime animation

http://www.duck.dk/cgi/cloud_02.png
(http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_cloud_02_test_web.mov)


Here's a demo of how the cloud rendering works:

http://www.duck.dk/cgi/cloud_02_composite.png

Cheers,
- Jonas

[balage]

Hi,
the motion what you have presented in the first place was the best, that was like in a movie, absolutely movie-style, but the later ones was like some amateur tourist video camerawork, you just wanted to show us the plane . who cares about the model, it's the feeling which matters. I dont wnna be a clever dick, but you have fallen into the trap of I want to show everything in 5 secs, I know that, and it's good way of thinking if you make advertisments but now it's a different question, seemingly you are after some cinematographic look, these kind of shots you can see in the blockbuster movies, where the whole safety of the galaxy is at stake and that's why was your first choice good, later on (you didnt get enough responses) you strayed into some strange direction, I think now what you have to do is to render the first movie whit proper background and atmosphere and all the fking itty bitty details you can find in your store and then you are ready with a great shot. I hope it will help

[ACantarel]

Wow Jussing, I like it and it looks very promising :thumbsup:
Waiting for the final :)

Cheers
André

[jussing]

Hey guys,

thanks for the feedback balage, but I'm pretty satisfied with the camera motion as it is now. Maybe it'll make more sense when the whole environment is rendered, too.

André, haven't seen you around since the avalanche! Love your paintings.

No updates the next week or so, I'm re-rendering in 1920 HD, just to try it out.

Cheers folks,
- Jonas

[larsgehrt]

Hi Jonas,

looks very promising, cant wait to se your final comp. The plane looks very good, top marks on the texture part. I think its also very essential that the models are as high quality in all aspects as the movie animation.

Ser godt ud, bare klø på.

Cheers.
Lars

[thehive]

looks great i think the plane on the far right should wisk the cloud abit like swerl it up you if possible other than good work. i looked at you mini demo for the clouds i sort of understand what you did but what compositing program are you using shake? or after effect? or could you go into a but mor explanation on how you ahcive that effect would be much appreciated

[jussing]

Hi guys, thanks for the feedback! ;) (davs lars)

@thehive, by using red, green and blue light sources, I can split the three channels in compositing (I use After Effects), and then fine-tune them individually (levels correction, typically), and use them as masks to illuminate the cloud.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[bazze]

looks very promising!
I'm subscribing to this thread to see its progress.

[jussing]

Thanks Bazze.

Your planes look great!

Please tell me these clouds are photographs!
http://bazze.cgsociety.org/gallery/346830/
http://bazze.cgsociety.org/gallery/288277/

Cheers,
- jonas

[MisterE]

Hey Jussing! Wow, not sure how I missed this one. But so far everything looks great as usual (modeling, textures, shaders, camera work)!

However if I were to crit one thing, and you mention how tricky it is to light the scene, to me F-117's themselves look too pale (?) maybe. Even if this is for a daytime shot, it looks too gray. For example, when I think of an F-117 stealth, I think JET BLACK. Like REALLY black. In your renders, it seems to lack that intense black color.

Here is an example:
http://www.avion-de-combat.com/Avion-de-combat/F-117A_Stealth_Fighter/f117/F-117A-011.jpg

Compared w/ the image of your textured jet, yours appears too grayish.

However, like you mention, it may be too hard if you want ppl to see the great amount of work you put into modeling and texturing the planes themselves.

Anyways, good luck to you!

[jussing]

Hey Rocky, thanks for checking it out, long time no see. :)

You're absolutely right, the pitch-blackness vs. brighter gray of the F-117 is what makes it really tricky, and I haven't really nailed it yet. What I'm going to do is render texture, lighting, reflection and ambient light out in seperate passes, and fine tune it to (hopefully) get the right look.

- Jonas

[thehive]

oh ok i see , so you are using AE pro then?

[jussing]

Yes, 6.5 pro. :)

Here's another go at the lighting:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 600 KB QUICKTIME ANIMATION (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_comp_03_web.mov)

Cheers,
- Jonas

[larsgehrt]

Looking good Jussing,

not much to say about the lightning yet, looks really good. But i would have to agree with rockymaru about the plane´s blackness, but maybe when you have the passes out you can get it like you whant it to.

Bare klø på.

[jussing]

Latest update, more clouds:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 1MB QUICKTIME (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_comp_04_web.mov)

This is just the unprocessed plates so far, so the colors look a little bit trippy. :)

- Jonas

EDIT: Status of this update is, I'm still working on those clouds. The clouds on the left is in the process of being re-rendered to patch that hole (and remove that loose particle hanging in the air after the cloud has passed). The clouds on the right are being re-rendered too, because in the process of working on the left cloud, I found a better way to handle the particles and materials.

Next update will be a handful or so more clouds, and after that comes mountains and skydome. Then compositing.

[MisterE]

Very nice clouds! May be a bit too colorful for my tastes, but the volumetrics, or the look of it alone, looks very convincing! Only other crit would be the jets now look even more blue than ever..so much so that they almost at first glance don't look like F-117's.

Have you been thinking about the sound design for this project yet?

[jussing]

Hi Rocky,

well that's what I meant with:


This is just the unprocessed plates so far, so the colors look a little bit trippy. :)


;) Meaning, everything is lit with red, green and blue light sources, so I can split those in compositing, and make it look real. :)

No, haven't thought of sound yet, I don't even have a piece of music.

Thanks for hanging in here,
- Jonas

[jussing]

Here's something closer to the final grading:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 1.2MB QUICKTIME (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_comp_06_web.mov)

- Jonas

[MisterE]

And that's a wrap!!! You NAILED everything perfectly there! The color and shader of the F-117 looks utterly convincing. The clouds look great as well! I wouldn't change a thing!

As for the final piece, I just can't wait! I know you will choose a fine selection of audio and that will be the icing on the cake.

[Kev3D]

Everything looks brilliant, I'm impressed.

I reckon there should be some camera shake as the planes fly past.

[Kinematics]

Wow...that is awesome dude!!! I really love what youve got there. Thanks for posting and showing us so much...its really snazzy to see all the levels of progression!


what time of day isit? Are you gonna be adjusting the blackness further? I think it still should be a tad darker for the stealth planes but i could be wrong. As for the camera movement...i think you could tone the shake down more and have it shake a lil more violently as the planes go by. to really feel it go by...know what i mean :) I think this shot could be faster...but that doesnt really matter i guess...jsut that planes and speed go oh so well :)

Nothing much to really pt out...just lil personal thoughts...but its really really really really good. I love it. looks like a lot of fun dude!

[jussing]

Hi all,

thanks again for the feedback.

It'll be a while before the next update, as I'll be busy putting my cartoonish reel on dvd and sending it out. :) Check it out here. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=421905)

Time of day: it's supposed to be in the middle of the day, but that will be more visible when the sky and the mountains come in. Then I'll propably modify the clouds shading once again.

The planes aren't completely finished either, right now they're just a monochromatic conversion of the RGB lighting render. They'll be tweaked and sunlight-ish, and I'll do what I can to preserve some blackness! :)

The camera is shaking now, and mostly when the planes pass. But it's more of a wobbly handheld, than an shockwave shake. I think the "shake the camera when something flies by" is grossly overdone in animations these days, so I'm trying to keep it natural. :)

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Mylenium]

Just got here thru your AE post. There are several things wrong with your planes. First and most importantly, you don't see any "waviness" on a F-117. The outer hull is made up of a honeycomb-structured aluminum/ composite material that is so stiff, it can't possibly allow any deformation from bulkheads and longerons. If at all, the effect needs to be much more subtle. Don't let yourself mislead you - the streaks you see on some photos are just dirt getting stuck on the mat/ rough surface.

Secondly, your flight physics stink. When doing a turn, you only use the ailerons (outermost flaps), not the slats (which are strictly for braking and descent on most aircraft). In addition to that, your tail stabilizers would move as well either for trimming or to get an additional quick boost. The elongation of the flaps seems excessive. At the speed your movie suggests (which seems to me something like 700 km/h) you'd use very little or none to get the subtle movement you are suggesting. Also keep in mind that the Nighthawk is entirely flown by wire, meaning you would see lots of small jiterry trimming/ compensation movements rather than one big sweep.

Mylenium

[jussing]

I like it as it is, but thanks. :)

- Jonas

[Lman]

that looks fantastic well done

[jussing]

Thank, Lman!

Here is the latest update.

CLICK HERE TO VIEW 3.1 MB QUICKTIME
http://www.duck.dk/cgi/f117_11.jpg
(http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_08_web.mov)

Of course there's still a billion things that need to be done:

Clouds:

Compositing is only temporary, hence the weird colors. They will all be graded based on photo reference.
I need some clouds over the mountains, throwing shadows.
Planes:

Still need color correction, right now they're just a B/W version of the three-colored lighting.
They also need to receive some light bounced from the clouds.
Sky:

I'm satisfied with the sky in the ending, but the sky visible in the beginning should also have photo elements, right now it's just a gradient.
Moutains:

Need details: buildings, roads, settlements and corn fields in the valley.
The pitch black "holes" are to be replaces with lakes, with a specular highlight from the sun, blocked out by mountain reflections.
...I think that's about it... dang it, still a long way to go!

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Animals]

wow honestly this looks very fantastic.. I am from Sweden by the wa:)

since I am working on a similar project.. could you tell how you did the sky? did you use a spher the how?

and the clouds.. ples dont tell me it is max original plugin:) lol

as I said your work is like a dream man! keep goin!!

[MisterE]

Man, this is starting to come together now! Now we know how high the planes are in the sky and that there will be more visual elements in the scene to add some variety, which is always nice. Obviously as you already stated, I feel the mountains need more texture work and the lake looks very boring right now. And even though you stated about the cloud colors, they still look very convincing! Good job so far!!

[anthonymcgrath]

er wow?!! bloody hell man thats looking really good - the motion and cam angles are superb. If I can add a couple o thoughts and some questions:

-I noticed the red/green/blue render - can you elaborate on how that works in compositing? Is it used to enhance areas of the beauty pass or something? any details you can share would be cool.

-only thoughts - some of the clouds seem a bit bulbous - maybe thin them out a little as the planes pass through. also fg clouds in front of planes but I'm sure you had them in mind.


truly superb work man. Is it just this one shot or do you have more planned?

[Skyraider3D]

That's looking pretty cool so far mate!
I'm still a bit confused about all the weird colours, but then again I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to video editing.

How are you creating the 3D clouds? They look pretty neat! Do they render quickly?

[Chems]

Looks great, I really really like the way the planes move looks very good.

The clouds vary in colour a lot but I think you mentioned that already.


What I did notice thou is that about 3/4 of the way through you can see a plane (as in single sided objected not one with wings) just off the port side of the first NightHawk's nose, looks like it might be a cloud facing the wrong way. Just incase you hadnt seen it.

Really good work love the detail on the jets.

[jussing]

Hi guys!

@animals & Skyraider: The cloud are just the oldfashioned billboard method, not even a lot of particles, so yeah, they render pretty quickly (the mountain pass is the longest render at the moment). The trick is the lighting... Since you can't light billboards using conventional light (because it reveals the angle of the planes), I'm using a direct ambient direct, with a far attenuation, to give it a volumetric look. On some clouds I also map an inverted z-buffer from the light source's POV, to fake a kind of ray-marching. Kinda difficult to explain in words...

@Rocky: Thanks for loyally hanging in there. :) What about the moutain texture itself, do you think that holds up? I wasn't really planning to add more details to the cliffs themselved, only some houses and stuff...

@Anthony, Skyraider & Chems: OK, the weird colors.... basically, it's because I want to have as much control over lighting as possible, in compositing (meaning I want each light source in a seperate pass), BUT, I only want to render the clouds once... So, by lighting it with red, green and blue lights, and rendering it ONCE, I can seperate those three channels in compositing, and have the same possibilities as if I rendered it three times with different light sources. I'm new to this technique too, I'm only trying it because I saw it in some Digital Domain's making-of's (the avalanche in xXx, water splashes and twister in Day After Tomorrow, and meteor strike in "Pebl" Motorola commercial).

@Anthony: Bulbous clouds... Hmm, not sure what you mean there. :) I did think about having one cloud release some puffy whisps as the plane strafes it (actually a tip, not an idea of mine), but I don't think I'll have the patience for that. ;)

@Chems: Yes, there's a stray master particle hanging in the air there. I was wondering when somebody would bring it up. Well spotted. ;) I haven't bothered to remove it yet, cause if I decide to re-render that cloud, I'll just hide that particle. If not, I'll mask it out of that pass.

Thanks for all your lovely feedback!

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Archetype]

man its been a while since i saw some of your work..
so far im loving the clouds..

but the mountains "lack" the realism u have put in the clouds and airplanes.
perhaps you should take a look @ dreamscape for a mountain setup it has always worked nice and fast for me. "www.afterworks.com" it works verry well with their sexture set too.
"currently you have a lot of streching going on"


as for the colours i figure that alot of colours give you alot of controll in composit so i wont critique you on that.


with regards.

[jussing]

Archetype, Mr. Bismarck, welcome! :) Glad you're tuning in. It's true the mountains lack something, I'll see what I can do. I don't think I have stretching, though the picture makes it look that way because of motion blur.

...forgot this one:

could you tell how you did the sky? did you use a spher the how?

Well no, it's basically just a cylinder, but not all of it is mapped. In the final framing, only the piece of the cylinder visible is mapped with a photo I took in Austria. For the beginning of the clip, I'll
find another sky photo that fits. :)

Cheers again,
- Jonas

[MisterE]

NP jussing! It's enjoyable watching this progress further and further :)

About the mountains, I just think right now they seem a little too plain. I know it's not the focal point of the animation, but even still, looking at them, there's nothing really that sticks out to make them look "cool." Maybe vary the sizes more, so that one set is really tall, while the others are lower in elevation. Or maybe make some of them rougher/edgier. Also perhaps consider adding more snow.

Overall, it's just a minor critique, b/c as I said the mountains are just a background element and I'm not sure how much you want to push the detail there. It's really all up to you, of course. Either way, I'm sure it'll turn out nicely :)

[jussing]

NEW UPDATE, CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 3.7 MB QUICKTIME. (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_09_web.mov)

Fixed in this release:


Planes
Clouds
In prioritized order, I still need:

Sky image in the beginning of shot
Lakes
Engine glow
Engine heat shimmer
Details on the mountains (forest, houses, roads)
Clouds in the background (at the end of the shot) are out of scale? I think I need to scale down the image, and do some clone-brushing to make it larger...
Masking out that stray particle :)
A subtle lens effect from the sun
Clouds over the mountains, throwing shadows (I'm considering skipping that one, I want to be done)
Cheers,
- Jonas

[nickryan]

I think this is a really great piece. The movement of the planes is good, the camera work is not too tricksy. I think the colours in the mountains are a little off, but a bit of colour correction in post will sort that out. ( And some nice reflective water!)


The clouds are great. Can you expand on the lighting theory behind them a bit more, as in where you place the R/G/B lights etc.

Stay with it, by the way, it should end ip looking really good.

Cheers

Nick

[jussing]

Hey Nick, thanks for stopping by.The clouds are great. Can you expand on the lighting theory behind them a bit more, as in where you place the R/G/B lights etc.Well, the trick is to use ambient directionals (lights that don't care what angle the polys are, or even if they are backfacing) with a distance decay that covers the range of the cloud.

Then place the lights so the cloud is mainly backlit or frontlit compared to the camera angle. Iif you light it straight from the side, the decaying ambient light will just look like a textured gradient, and you don't want that.

That's the trick, really. :)

I don't know how much I'll be able to update this project in the near future, as I've just landed a new job, working on an show for British TV.

Cheers all,
- Jonas

[jussing]

New update with a new sky in the beginning, and trees on the mountains:

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 2.7 MB QUICKTIME (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_11_web.mov)

Next up is the lake!

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Skyraider3D]

Looking better and better, mate! :thumbsup:
The sky at the beginning looks a little bit purple though, and the planes have a bit of a transparent feel to them... can't put my finger on it. Also I spotted a small UFO on the left as they exit the clouds :D

[jussing]

Looking better and better, mate! :thumbsup:
The sky at the beginning looks a little bit purple though, and the planes have a bit of a transparent feel to them... can't put my finger on it. Also I spotted a small UFO on the left as they exit the clouds :DDammit, my girlfriend said that thing abour the purple sky, too! I told her it's from a photo I took of a real sky, so it has to look real, but I guess maybe it doesn't match the surroundings and the other sky. I'll tone down the red, then.


I'll look into the transparency, though I think it's just bloom and reflections.

And yes, there's a stray cloud particle, I'll have to mask it out of the pass.

Thanks Ronnie, compliments from you on an airplane clip means a lot.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[jussing]

ALMOST DONE!

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD 3.1 MB QUICKTIME (http://www.duck.dk/cgi/jussing_f117_13_web.mov)

Things fixed in this release:

The lake
Details in the mountains
Trees
The UFO particle has been masked out
Less purple sky (beginning of shot)
Still need to do:

Heat shimmer from the engines
Rehash of mountain details (roads are not visible)
Resize the clouds in the background (end of shot)
Match sky color in beginning with sky color in the end
Subtle lens flare thingy
Clouds over the mountains (?)
I rendered a pass with engine glow, but it kept looking fake - F117's never have engine glow (at least not in broad daylight).

Cheers,
- Jonas

[Skyraider3D]

Looking better and better. The lake looks good though I'd make the specular highlights a bit stronger and sharper. It feels a bit "leathery" now.

[anthonymcgrath]

oh wow that really is looking superb now. I agree with the glow/engine thing - dont think they'd really be doing that anyhow and the speed they're moving doesn't give the impression that they'd be on full boost anyhow so the heat shimmer would be enough.

the trees on the mountains look fantastic too :)

superb work - looking forward to seeing it finished. quick question - how long (days and/or hours) has this shot taken you? Is there any more to it or is it literally what you see in the qtime movie? Is it a showreel piece and do you have any other examples?

[jussing]

Thanks guys!

Ronnie, I'll try your tip on the lake spec, thanks. :thumbsup:

Anthony, thanks for your compliments. Phew, I really have no idea how much actual time it has taken. I've spent one or two short evenings per week on it, except some weeks and months where I haven't worked on it at all. And it's been going on since late August.
There's no more of it than what you see in the clip (except I'm working in 1024 resolution). It's just for demo reel purpose, not part of a bigger project. I have no more airplane examples, but you can check by my website (http://www.duck.dk/)if you want to see my other animations. Just click on the gallery thumbnails.

Cheers,
- Jonas

[jussing]

DONE! FINITO! NO MORE!

Woohow, today's the day. The project is now closed. I'm a very happy man. :)

Please click here to go to the final animation! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=154&t=450662)

Cheers and thanks for all the support!

- Jonas

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