PS3 Predicted to Lead Market Through 2011

[thoughtlesswhisper]

yea wateva. the cheapest console out of the lot will only have a 16% share? i think these guys are dreaming just a liiiil bit.....

[ThomasMahler]

I think it's stupid to compare PS2 sales with how the PS3 will do - There are some really great games available for the PS2 (and that's what it's all about), which will take a while until the PS3 gets it's share of.

Also, the price will be a huge downer for the first 2 or so years - 600 dollars for a gaming console completely rules out all the children, so it'll be a geeky thing for the first 24 months - at least. And since it'll take a considerable amount of time until we get software that actually makes the console worth buying, Microsoft still has some time to decrease the price of the Xbox360, where you'll get mostly the same games that are even looking the same for less money. People are still buying the PS2 nowadays, cause it's simply cheap fun and there are tons of games out there - Microsoft did fairly well with the X360 up until now and if they're playing their cards right, the exact same thing could happen that we've seen 96/97 - they could just eat away all the market share from the marketleader, because there's great software out there already, Xbox is a strong brand now and there are a lot of cool games already available for the console. Who would have thought 10 years ago that Nintendo could ever lose this battle? Sure, PlayStation is a huge brand nowadays, but so was Nintendo, Super Nintendo and so on 10 years ago. And since most of the games nowadays will be created for the weakest console on the market and then just ported over to another platform in order to gain a little more profit... why buying that huge PS3 thing if I could get a 360 for 200 bucks less that's about as powerful as the PS3?

As for the Wii - now that's the only console I'm currently interested in. I don't have the time anymore to play huge, epic RPGs, I don't have the time anymore to sit in front of the TV all day to play games - Instead, the idea that you're playing with friends one of their franchise titles with that funky controller makes me jumpy. I'll buy this thing for the virtual console stuff alone, hope Nintendo will still ship it this year at a good price, then they could really catch up a bit.

I'm not really following the videogaming market at this point... so that's just my opinion as someone who once invested huge amounts of time into videogames. Games should be fun. I think that a lot of people have forgotten that over the last decade or so.

[Kaostick]

Ok, Wii'll see. (couldn't resist :D ) 2011 is a long ways off, and the PS3's price could drop enough for it to be a contender. I honestly believe this will be Sony's last console. I hope I'm wrong :shrug:

[PyRoT]

LOL What rubbish. Id love to have such an easy job.. making stuff up.
I mean, how can u have all those percentages ad up to exactly 100% anyway when many people will probably buy more than one console?

[NRG-Alpha]

Ok, Wii'll see. (couldn't resist :D ) 2011 is a long ways off, and the PS3's price could drop enough for it to be a contender. I honestly believe this will be Sony's last console. I hope I'm wrong :shrug:

I can't honestly beleive that this will be Sony's last console. Sure, they dropped the ball getting this thing out (which hasn't even happened yet), but the Playstation brand brings in a large portion of what Sony makes (although admittedly, they haven't been doing so well these days).

I think that there will be another console for Sony after this one. Sony has done phenomenally well so far since their enty into the gaming console market. They have won two console generation wars back to back. No one else has accomplished this (Nintendo won the 8-bit market, Sega won the 16-bit market [by %60], thus Sony has won the 32/64 bit market [64 bit being the Nintendo N64], and now Sony has pretty much won the 128-bit market (PS2). So I have to say that the track record is pretty damn impressive so far.

Everyone falls sooner or later.. and Sony is no expection.. But I would think that it would be rather foolish to rule them out just yet. The next gen lifespan has just begun. There is alot of room to make a comeback. Just ask Sega when they rushed Saturn out the door many months ahead of PS2. Now notably, this situation is different altogether.,. but again, I would not be too quick to rule Sony out just yet. They have the firepower (on all fronts, ranging from hardware, to first and third party support, marketing, etc...) to do it (again).

Cheers,

NRG

[Apoclypse]

Well at some poin the graphics on the ps3 and xbox 360 will lok dated. Where will that leave the Wii. Yeah, the gimmivks interesting and I love the snes arcade thing, but how long before you get tired of playing older games you've played to death the nintendo magic fades away. You can say whatever you want about sony but if you buy one of there consoles you'll be keeping it and using it for a while.

[pixelmonk]

Well at some poin the graphics on the ps3 and xbox 360 will lok dated. Where will that leave the Wii. Yeah, the gimmivks interesting and I love the snes arcade thing, but how long before you get tired of playing older games you've played to death the nintendo magic fades away. You can say whatever you want about sony but if you buy one of there consoles you'll be keeping it and using it for a while.

I agree... and I agree with the assessment on Wii's marketshare. I doubt its sustainability.

[Ninjas]

That's the funny thing about market analysts. They project past trends into the future. You can't understand the gaming industry by looking at a spread sheet. How does Hironobu Sakaguchi working for Microsoft factor into that analysis? You think Square is going to keep making good games when they ran off the creative force behind their games? Sony is fighting tooth and nail against user created content, yet games like Counter-Strike are still wildly popular. The PS3 controller is downright regressive. And pretty much time has shown that there is no console brand loyalty. Folks dropped their Ataris, then thei Nintendos, then their Segas as soon as something better came along.

By 2011 Nintendo will probably have their new system out. That is how they have worked the handheld market and it's worked really well for them.

I think that with the open format XBox360, it will probably have the most, best and cheapest games, created mostly by users.

[CodeNothing]

total bull. Unless the PS3 halfs its price it will not be able to hold that kind of standing. everyone i know is planning on buying a Wii. No one i know is even considering buying a PS3 when it comes out. And i work in the game industry. Even the hardcore gamers want to drop nearly a thousand dollars (system + controllers + games) for a console. Especialy one that promises to offer games at $70 and $80 (or more).


Wii is affordable, and will be in nearly every house hold. People who can afford more, (or dont want to sit around playing kids games) will buy a 360. Its overall more affordable, and for shooter fans X-LIVE is a far better online service that anything Sony can produce.

I think possibly 5 years down the road (if PS3 can stay afloat that long) the tech will become cheaper to produce and the price will drop dramaticaly. But by then will players have built a considerable library of 360 and Wii games? will anyone feel like starting over with the PS3? i duno.

also within that time Nintendo and Microsoft will probably have released new handhelds. Which will take more attention from sony.

DIE SONY DIE! :scream:

[richcz3]

OMG - The chimps in the board room turned the chart upside down again. :rolleyes:
PS3 will lose 56% more market share to Nintendos Wii and Microsoft will sell its XBOX unit to a yet undisclosed company


and keep the laser pointers away from them - Those silly monkeys

[BinarySoup]

though I'm a huge Nintendo fan and eager to get hold of the wii, I'm also a realist. PS3 will dominate. the most important market is Japan, since 99% of the quality console games are made there. and in japan Sony has a firm grip of the Console market, just as Nintendo has the same for the handheld. XBox and XBox360 has failed and will continue to fail there, the japanese people are extremely loyal to their domestic brands. the wii, I hope, will do alot better than the gamecube did. but seriously, all the big names like Konami, Square/Enix, Capcom, Namco etc are focusing their best efforts on the PS3. new versions of Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Metal Gear Solid, Gran Turismo, Tekken etc.. all have new versions coming for the PS3. while waiting for PS3, the japanese keep buying games for their PS2's rather than go out and buy a 360. meanwhile, the 5 year old PS2 is outselling the XBox360 in the states aswell...

[JohnD]

I'm sorry...but I can't take those numbers seriously.
Same as CodeNothing said...everyone I know...including those in the gaming industry are hyped on the Wii...not PS3, but I'm still waiting to see how the PS3 does. Plus, has anyone heard anything about the Wii being backward compatible with the NES, SNES, N64, Genesis, and TurboGrafx 16?
Now this is a Wikipedia article...so take it with a grain of salt. It's near the bottom under "Backward Compatibility" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Console_war)

Holy crap, that would be sweet if true.

[Neil]

I think possibly 5 years down the road (if PS3 can stay afloat that long)

Please, Sony isn't going bankrupt anytime soon. It hasn't even been released yet... jeez are we all jumping to conclusions here. MS had a sloppy release of Xbox too and finally got the ball rolling.

[Womball]

If Wii was just an emulation system it would do well. There is a huge library of classic games that are much better than anything released today. And some of them haven't been released stateside.

[Mondo]

Well this Analyst is 85% sure that the Yankee Group is 90% wrong 100% of the time.

[Denart]

total bull. Unless the PS3 halfs its price it will not be able to hold that kind of standing. everyone i know is planning on buying a Wii. No one i know is even considering buying a PS3 when it comes out.

ditto. Nintendo will come back

[EpShot]

someoen should start a website analysiing analysts.

[tozz]

People seem to be forgetting that the PS2 almost had the same price tag as the PS3 at release ($40-50 cheaper) and the technology was pretty fresh then too. What happened to the PS2 five years later? I'm not agreeing with the numbers, but I can definately see Wii going the same path as the GameCube.

[sheppyboy2000]

That's the funny thing about market analysts. They project past trends into the future. You can't understand the gaming industry by looking at a spread sheet.

1. How does Hironobu Sakaguchi working for Microsoft factor into that analysis?
2. You think Square is going to keep making good games when they ran off the creative force behind their games?
3. Sony is fighting tooth and nail against user created content, yet games like Counter-Strike are still wildly popular.
4. The PS3 controller is downright regressive.
5. And pretty much time has shown that there is no console brand loyalty. Folks dropped their Ataris, then thei Nintendos, then their Segas as soon as something better came along.

By 2011 Nintendo will probably have their new system out. That is how they have worked the handheld market and it's worked really well for them.

I think that with the open format XBox360, it will probably have the most, best and cheapest games, created mostly by users.

1. Really, how does the hype of Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon effect the 360 right now? How about the "massive push" Team Ninja was supposed to give Xbox? Unless Sakaguchi's first drop can critically top FFXII, I don't see it turning the tide anytime soon. Especially when both the makers of FFXII and Kingdom Hearts are hard at work on PS3.

2. The funny thing? After running off all their "talent," SquareEnix managed to score the first perfect Final Fantasy ever from Famitsu. Ironically, the director of FFXII made his perfect scoring debut with Vagrant Story. You have to wonder... if Sakaguchi never got a perfect score from Famitsu but this up and comer has two, what talent was chased away, exactly?

3. Sony has an outreach program to get unique games their fair shot at the big time. A tradition since Playstation. Sony is fighting user created mods on PSP for a very simple reason. And I bet if you search online for PSP related torrents, you can figure it out.

4. And yet more and more "hands on" previews are raving about the controller. The main complaint being that it is light.

5. Atari screwed their own market and crashed the industry in the states. Nintendo was dropped once the government busted down their illegal retailer pressuring tactics. Sega built up a history of bad faith in their consumer base and finally gave up the console game after ten years of losses. Time will tell if Sony's regime is ready to fall. But considering both the PSP and PS2 are still selling well (and zero indication of a slowing down), PS3 isn't all that important to Sony this year. Yes, it has to launch and generate hype but where is their money coming from versus their losses?

[havokzprodigy]

As long as the PS3 doesn't spontaneously catch fire and blow up it should do ok.

[Ninjas]

2. The funny thing? After running off all their "talent," SquareEnix managed to score the first perfect Final Fantasy ever from Famitsu. Ironically, the director of FFXII made his perfect scoring debut with Vagrant Story. You have to wonder... if Sakaguchi never got a perfect score from Famitsu but this up and comer has two, what talent was chased away, exactly?


Vagrant Story didn't do so hot in the US because we don't care for hermaphrodite main characters. I suspect FFXII will have that same problem. Making games for the Japanese market is vastly different than making games for a world market.

[sheppyboy2000]

Vagrant Story didn't sell too well anywhere. But go to www.gamerankings.com (http://www.gamerankings.com) to see how much the critics loved it. And most people I showed the game to were addicted as well.

[Apoclypse]

Vagrant story didn't do to well in sales, but its reviews were pretty good across the board. Not to mention that the creator had reviously ha FF; Tactics under his belt which imo is one of the best ps games ever even with the awful translation. Square has other titles to draw on if they really wanted to. The Chrono series comes to mind. They could make remakes for the next five years and still make a killing. Sakaguchi may never have had a perfect score, thats more because of his adherence to classic gameplay (which I like btw) and melodramatic story lines. The other guy has a more subtle way of telling his stories and the politics he inserts into his games are really interesting. Whatever you want to say about Sakaguchi he is a visionary and the fact there is another game being made in the series or even that square is still around is a testament to him. Give the guy a little more credit.

[sheppyboy2000]

I'd be willing to give him credit except for two things.

1. Lost Odyssey... nothing is known. Not even a guesstimate on it's release date. To me, Lost Odyssey is like Too Human on Playstation. I'm sure it's under dev and I've seen a video, but when is it coming?

2. Blue Dragon... aside from the massive number of enemies of the screen at once, nothing about the project has me excited. We've seen the art style before. Seen the character designs before. Hell, we've seen the few glimpses of gameplay before. Is Akira Toriyami and Sakaguchi enough to push a title that looks good, but typical. Especially considering the flailing status of 360 in Japan.

[hightillidie]

Hmm, Im the one thats gonna buy PS3.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

4. And yet more and more "hands on" previews are raving about the controller. The main complaint being that it is light.

And the fact that it is a 12 year old design. And the fact that it has no ergonomic design.... The fact that a device that is meant to sit in ur hands... for hours.... has no ergonmic design. And the fact that they waited for nintendo to reveal their controller before they released their pivot crap.

that joypad does not sit in my hands nicely. the archs for the l/r buttons dig into my middle fingers. iv thought that for years. its just straight lines and circles. i was taught erganomics in 3rd year CDT. i was 14. cmon man, get real.

[sheppyboy2000]

When they changed it, people complained. Now they go back, people complain.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

When they changed it, people complained. Now they go back, people complain.

yea because both ideas were crap.

[TimMehmet]

I think initially PS3's price will put off alot of people from buying it, and it wont have the same impact the PS2 did. But give it 2 years from its release, when its cheaper and all the must-have games are out.... everyone and their grandmothers will be getting themselves a PS3 and itll probably make a comeback and dominate then.

[tozz]

yea because both ideas were crap.
You're dissin' the most respected controller of all times, perhaps the error doesn't lie in the controller? The Dreamcast might have it beaten, but then again, it didn't provide the same possibilities.
Of all the next gen machines I'd say Microsoft learnt the most, they did a real upgrade on their 360 controller.

[Apoclypse]

just wait unitl the greatest hits hits the shelfs, then we'll see. Though if the ps3 doesn't sell or enough games how can hey have greatest hits? I think that was the best thing Sony ever did, the greatest hits. Its a great idea, because they can still sell games to those cheap bastards out there and gain more players. Nintendo never did this before sony. I would have to go to a thrift store to play any old snes games and those were used, you had to blow on them suckers like you was taking a sobriety test. A huge example chrono trigger was still around 60 dollars used in some places, yet ff7 after a year was 19.99 brand new (All my ff games are original btw, except ffx).

[sheppyboy2000]

Nintendo had their Players Choice lineup (which, incidently, shaved a scant $10 off the price for NES and SNES lineups).

[Ninjas]

I'd be willing to give him credit except for two things.

1. Lost Odyssey... nothing is known. Not even a guesstimate on it's release date. To me, Lost Odyssey is like Too Human on Playstation. I'm sure it's under dev and I've seen a video, but when is it coming?

2. Blue Dragon... aside from the massive number of enemies of the screen at once, nothing about the project has me excited. We've seen the art style before. Seen the character designs before. Hell, we've seen the few glimpses of gameplay before. Is Akira Toriyami and Sakaguchi enough to push a title that looks good, but typical. Especially considering the flailing status of 360 in Japan.

Yeah. I agree that it is too soon to know if Sakaguchi still has his magic. When I go back and play Final Fantasy 1 the thing I notice is that it has very tight gameplay for an RPG. I don't know if the Japanese will ever take the XBox seriously, but I think it could make a big difference for US RPG lovers (if the games are fun).

[heavyness]

As long as the PS3 doesn't spontaneously catch fire and blow up it should do ok.

like the batteries Sony makes for Dell's.... jk... had to say it.


i don't think ANYONE knows how this next gen war will unfold. sure, people have educated guesses, but some many things are changing. Microsoft is focusing on the online/always connect/micro payments, Sony wants to be that one media box under your tv, and Nintendo is getting your ass off the seat with the Wii. any of these could fail or be the next best thing since sliced bread.

next-gen is becoming more about "how can we make a better game experience for the gamer." the days of next-gen being defined as "more polygons" is over.

with only 1 system out of the 3, it is way to early to even guess.

[noisewar]

Cmon guys, this is merely a PR trick to purposely be contrarian and get these analysts some headline real estate.

[vitor]

I'm with the most of gamers here that are already a bit tired of the current idea of "next gen hardware", so just Wii here...

About the PS3, with already a few studios complaning about the high development cost for it, won't the its games and the Xbox be the the same? (expect the exclusives of course.) So i would really prefer a Wii+Xbox360 pack than a PS3 big thing...

Fun article anyways, and it won't be this time we loose Sony (really hope not)...

[switchblade327]

Forget all this next-gen console war business. I want to know what the Yankee Group has to say about flying cars!

[Bael]

Sony will pump enough money into marketing and hype that the PS3 won't be a failure, but it won't do nearly as well as the PS2 in the US market. It has real competition this time around from Microsoft, and the Wii will be soaking up the younger and low budget markets like a sponge. No matter how great of a system Sony can produce, it will never top the PS2 with several real contenders in the market - especially at a higher price point and no technological advantage to speak of.

Yes, the PS3 will dominate the Japanese market - thats a no brainer. Japanese tend to only buy Japanese games (go figure), while the rest of the world pick and choose the handfull of hit titles that make it. And while Sony and Nintendo might be going at it tooth and nail, the Japanese market has very little effect on the Xbox outside the die-hard MGS and FF fanatics.

The Xbox360 will pull the market lead in the US, barely, with the PS3 and Wii fighting for 2nd and 3rd.

[CGmonkey]

"My wang is bigger than your wang"

Who cares which console comes first, second or last? In my eyes, eventually all that matters are that all three consoles will be here alteast 5-6 years to come. Hopefully I'll get as memorable and emotional moments as I've had with nes, snes, sega, dc, gc, ps2, ps1, xbox and all the other obscure gaming consoles I have..

So, stop trying to convince everyone else that you made the right choice..

[pixelmonk]

"My wang is bigger than your wang"

_snipped the boring parts--

So, stop trying to convince everyone else that you made the right choice..

Dude, you sound like a broken record. You posted the same exact thing on another thread. Be passive agressive elsewhere.

[Hawke]

Just on the subject of Wii dominating the budget concious market, the hardware may be cheaper and development costs may be cheaper but the end price point for the games looks like being exactly the same as the PS3:

http://www.play.com/Games/Wii/NAVSUB/5-/RegionHome.html
http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStation3/NAVSUB/5-/RegionHome.html

[thoughtlesswhisper]

Dude, you sound like a broken record. You posted the same exact thing on another thread. Be passive agressive elsewhere.

dude that was uncalled for. if thats what you call aggressive then id hate to see what you think about alot of my posts. this guy made a valid point anyway. wats the point in bickering over which one is most popular. evryone should just buuy the one that THEY like and well all be happy.

if anything, your posts are generally aggressive.

[Andyman]

People seem to be forgetting that the PS2 almost had the same price tag as the PS3 at release ($40-50 cheaper) and the technology was pretty fresh then too. What happened to the PS2 five years later? I'm not agreeing with the numbers, but I can definately see Wii going the same path as the GameCube.

In the US, PS2 launched at $299. I hardly call that $40-50 cheaper than $500-600US.

I know that in Australia, it launched at $749, but neither know how that translates into US$ or how many were sold.

While the initial price of a PS3 is way too high for me and many others, I don't think the price is their main problem. I believe it's because they are trying to do too much at once.

It's like trying to carry too much stuff at once when you're bring in the groceries or move books. You try to carry them all at once - a "lazy man's load" - so you only have to take one trip, but because it's too heavy or bulky, you end up dropping so much stuff on the way that you have to go back and pick it all up anyway.

[Cronholio]

Just on the subject of Wii dominating the budget concious market, the hardware may be cheaper and development costs may be cheaper but the end price point for the games looks like being exactly the same as the PS3:

http://www.play.com/Games/Wii/NAVSUB/5-/RegionHome.html
http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStation3/NAVSUB/5-/RegionHome.html

I'm not sure those Wii prices are going to stick. EA has announced their Wii games woud be priced at 49.99 USD and first party games are going to be 39.99-49.99 USD. I know Atari Europe announced some ridiculously high prices, I wouldn't expect people in the UK to be paying that much for games. They'll probably be 25-40 GBP with the average being around 30 GBP.

[tozz]

In the US, PS2 launched at $299. I hardly call that $40-50 cheaper than $500-600US.

I know that in Australia, it launched at $749, but neither know how that translates into US$ or how many were sold.

While the initial price of a PS3 is way too high for me and many others, I don't think the price is their main problem. I believe it's because they are trying to do too much at once.

It's like trying to carry too much stuff at once when you're bring in the groceries or move books. You try to carry them all at once - a "lazy man's load" - so you only have to take one trip, but because it's too heavy or bulky, you end up dropping so much stuff on the way that you have to go back and pick it all up anyway.
Lucky US people :)
I assure that wasn't the case over in Sweden, but even at 5000-5500 sek it sould out everywhere.

I really appreciate Sony doing everything right now, instead of taking the MS path with a addon that will never be fully utilized. If I can save space and money on a PS3 by not needing to buy a DVD/Blu-Ray player I'm all for it. And if Linux will enable people to create their own multimedia applications I don't need a htpc either. This is all uncertain of course, but I wouldn't bash anyone for trying to bring as much as possible to the consumer (as long as quality won't have to take a too big beating).

[sheppyboy2000]

I think the main question is, will PS3 survive on the market long enough to see their "future proof" claims come to fruition? I mean, PS3 just finally unveiled it's UI recently and it looks like a more in-depth PSP interface although, unlike the PSP and Xbox 360, system settings and adjuestments can be made without backing out into the home menu. It's a slick system with mroe hi-tech gear than anything out there. But if they can make it past the first two years with a steady price drop, they'll eventually win back some of their fanbase. People are discounting PS3 on price alone but easily forget PS2 beat out Gamecube despite being $100 more. And it sure as hell wasn't the ability to play PSOne games that did that, but killer PS2 games. Right now, Sony is nursing one hell of a lineup and I truly hope most of the titles come out even remotely close to the potential showed on early vids.

[LetterRip]

sheppyboy2000

People are discounting PS3 on price alone but easily forget PS2 beat out Gamecube despite being $100 more. And it sure as hell wasn't the ability to play PSOne games that did that, but killer PS2 games.

Actually it was that PS2 had a built in DVD player when everyone was thinking strongly about getting a DVD player but didn't feel like shelling out the cash for an expensive standalone model.

LetterRip

[Nazirull]

Why Sony wants PS3 at the first place?

Do they want to build the gaming machine to compete with PC? From what im hearing , Sony is trying to squeeze in everything into the PS3 unit. I dont know what to expect.

[Pikmin]

One thing is sure, nobody can't really tell who will be first , second and third in 5 years. One think I'm sure, I'm gonna pre-order my Wii soon :) .

[Zanmato]

Actually it was that PS2 had a built in DVD player when everyone was thinking strongly about getting a DVD player but didn't feel like shelling out the cash for an expensive standalone model.

True, when I got my PS2 I considered it a bonus though. The PS2 DVD player is pretty rubbish however, it won't play other media types only original DVD's and the playback control is a long-winded affair too.

PS3 is too expensive at the moment, that's why the Wii looks fairly tempting. Also, to be fair the Wii has a few good looking games also. I think Sony will lose some of the market share in 2007/8 on price alone but if they stick at it and not let things like slip like they did with the PSP then I think coupled with price reductions on both the console and games they will claw some of the ground back. I just wish they would pull their fingers out with EU releases but some monster AAA titles are lined up.

[NanoGator]

I think initially PS3's price will put off alot of people from buying it, and it wont have the same impact the PS2 did. But give it 2 years from its release, when its cheaper and all the must-have games are out.... everyone and their grandmothers will be getting themselves a PS3 and itll probably make a comeback and dominate then.

I hope for Sony's sake that you're right. Right now, the 360 has a heck of a head start, and it's not clear at the moment that the PS3's hardware is going to be that much better. Worse, Nintendo's coming out at a much lower price point. If Sony doesn't nab some must-have exclusives (GTA?), the PS3 is going to be in a lot of trouble.

[Neil]

Vagrant Story didn't do so hot in the US because we don't care for hermaphrodite main characters.

I think the word you were looking for is "androgynous"

[Womball]

Explain Final Fantasy X than? Tidus seemed rather androgynous.

[Hawke]

Explain Final Fantasy X than? Tidus seemed rather androgynous.

There are millions of fans who will buy anything with 'Final Fantasy' on it while Vagrant Story was comming from nowhere - good game though :)

[parallax]

People who think wii will all of a sudden play a role of significance, are not in touch with reality. Despite it's games, innovation and pricing, Cgtalk is in no way representative of the complete demographic.
In case you didn't notice, Nintendo lost this battle even before it started. This is a marketing and marketshare game, wich was lost to Sony to begin with. Cgtalk and people who really appreciate gaming and innovation are 0,01% of the public. The rest wants Madden 200X and Fifa Soccer 1234, or GTA.
It's like people claiming a CPU will be a hit because it's easily overclocked. Overlooking the fact that the number of overclockers is limited to exactly 3 people.

[Zanmato]

There are millions of fans who will buy anything with 'Final Fantasy' on it while Vagrant Story was comming from nowhere - good game though :)

Final Fantasy X has sold near 8 million copies. It was also the first PS2 game to reach 2 million and 4 million copies. As March 2006, it is amongst the top 20 games of all time and is the 11th best selling game of the 21st century in the US. It also the first FF game to directly spawn a sequel but the less said about that the better.

March 2006 - FF8 has sold 7.86 million, FF7 has sold 9.72 million making the best selling title.

So that more or less equals 8 million PS2s out there and some of those PS2's would have been purchased just to play FFX alone more so in Japan where gamers there go literally 'nuts' over anything FF. But we long-suffering Europeans have to wait even longer than usual to get our hands on these games, eg. FF12 slated as end of August release, then mid-Dec, now mid-Feb 2007. Surely converting to PAL doesn't take this long...

As long as these titles stay on the PS3 which isn't really all that a certain future then Sony have already secured a decent market share. Square was toying with the Xbox I seem to remember but perhaps Sony threw some money their way to stay pretty much exclusive on the consoles. I know some of these games are now available on the PC.

[NanoGator]

People who think wii will all of a sudden play a role of significance, are not in touch with reality. Despite it's games, innovation and pricing, Cgtalk is in no way representative of the complete demographic.

Go take a look elsewhere. There is plenty of good blood for Nintendo on just about every forum except the OMGSONYPWNS! fan sites.

In case you didn't notice, Nintendo lost this battle even before it started.

Well... I have to give you credit for that, I didn't notice a prediction of the future happening. ;)


This is a marketing and marketshare game, wich was lost to Sony to begin with. Cgtalk and people who really appreciate gaming and innovation are 0,01% of the public.

You have a good point about marketing. There's still a wildcard here. But let's break this down a bit. Sony's going to try to market a $600 machine that has yet to demonstrate that it is significantly more powerful than the 360. Sony had better have must-have exclusives (i.e. the GTA franchise...) in their pocket because they're up against a formidible opponent. (You've already made this point, I'm agreeing with it.) The Wi, however, i has a sickeningly lower price, a distinctive and new way to play games, a huge library of classic games, and Nintendo themselves making exclusive titles for it.

You know that .01% CGTalk market you're talking about? It's a heck of a lot bigger than you're making it out to be. You see, CGTalk isn't the only site alive with Go Nintendo! babble. Go to just about any other gaming site (Even Slashdot...) and you'll see people flocking for Nintendo news. You want to talk about marketing? Nintendo not only creamed Sony at E3, but the news sites are STILL alive with ripples from those events. Nintendo has a strong game plan. They've proven it with the DS. That thing is like the N64 going against the PS2 (I'm referring to the PSP) and in a year it has become a must-have item. The Wii is definitely being poised in the same fashion to go toe-to-toe with the PS3 and the 360.

Sony will likely market the heck out of the PS3, but don't count Nintendo out just for that alone.

[ParamountCell]

Holy crap, that would be sweet if true.

Yes its true.

[mech7]

blablabla.. sounds like crafty marketing to me

[Andyman]

Lucky US people :)
I assure that wasn't the case over in Sweden, but even at 5000-5500 sek it sould out everywhere.


Ouch. I hope you guys don't have to pay over double this time around as well! =/ If it follows the same ratio as the PS2, you guys will be paying like 13,000 kroners... yuck.

[Ninjas]

I think the word you were looking for is "androgynous"

Did you get to see the character's genitals? I meant what I said.

[tozz]

Ouch. I hope you guys don't have to pay over double this time around as well! =/ If it follows the same ratio as the PS2, you guys will be paying like 13,000 kroners... yuck.
It's almost as bad this time around. If we would pay $600 it would mean 4400 sek, but dealers here are expecting a a price around 6000 sek and that'll be around $820. Still, the PS3 pre-order kit (the 60gb kit or whatever) is ranked higher (in number of pre-orders) than Halo3 and the World of Warcraft epansion so there's definately a market for it.

Edit:
Rechecked and Halo3 is off the chart, quite alot can hapen fast :)

[sheppyboy2000]

So that more or less equals 8 million PS2s out there and some of those PS2's would have been purchased just to play FFX alone more so in Japan where gamers there go literally 'nuts' over anything FF. But we long-suffering Europeans have to wait even longer than usual to get our hands on these games, eg. FF12 slated as end of August release, then mid-Dec, now mid-Feb 2007. Surely converting to PAL doesn't take this long...

I would have thought Europian gamers would be praising PS3 for one simple thing, region free on games. While BluRay movies will remain region locked, Sony has stated games will be region free. And if you own an HDTV of some form (aka, the ability to go beyond PAL and NTSC restrictions), suddenly the PS3 looks like the best console to the Europian market just because they no longer have to suffer from the "we'll get to it when we get to it" attitude all three companies throw around.

That's just my opinion anyway. I do know that DS and PSP had region coding, both Sony and Nintendo would be tasting my Ire.

[NanoGator]

I would have thought Europian gamers would be praising PS3 for one simple thing, region free on games. While BluRay movies will remain region locked, Sony has stated games will be region free. And if you own an HDTV of some form (aka, the ability to go beyond PAL and NTSC restrictions), suddenly the PS3 looks like the best console to the Europian market just because they no longer have to suffer from the "we'll get to it when we get to it" attitude all three companies throw around.

That's just my opinion anyway. I do know that DS and PSP had region coding, both Sony and Nintendo would be tasting my Ire.

Makes me curious if the Wii's retro library of games will be region locked.

[Devenish]

2011 is a long time from now and probably why the Yankee Group chose such a safe date since they are a work for hire firm. In all reality average console life is ~5 years and considering Microsoft’s history, they don’t stand still for long. I am sure they’ll already be pushing the next system by 2009-2010 with Nintendo to fallow.

[heavyness]

I would have thought Europian gamers would be praising PS3 for one simple thing, region free on games....

the xbox 360 is region free... to a point [1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Region_Free_Xbox_360_Games)] [2 (http://forum.lik-sang.com/showthread.php?t=9766)]. companies can decide to make the game region free or not. most will not because some countries have guidelines you must follow [like Germany... no blood] for them to sell the game. but even then, it doesn't matter much since the general public will wait for the game to be released locally [and cheaper then importing].

[tozz]

It's never* cheaper to buy locally, I payed 50-80% of the local price for all my GameCube titles because I imported (same region). So for me it's heaven that the companies finally get it, NO REGION CODES! :D I'll probably buy all my PS3 titles from over sea.

*Importing from Asia can be a little more expensive, nothing certain though.
And if you live where the games are the cheapest in the world, it would be more expensive to import ;)

[parallax]

Go take a look elsewhere. There is plenty of good blood for Nintendo on just about every forum except the OMGSONYPWNS! fan sites.



Well... I have to give you credit for that, I didn't notice a prediction of the future happening. ;)




You have a good point about marketing. There's still a wildcard here. But let's break this down a bit. Sony's going to try to market a $600 machine that has yet to demonstrate that it is significantly more powerful than the 360. Sony had better have must-have exclusives (i.e. the GTA franchise...) in their pocket because they're up against a formidible opponent. (You've already made this point, I'm agreeing with it.) The Wi, however, i has a sickeningly lower price, a distinctive and new way to play games, a huge library of classic games, and Nintendo themselves making exclusive titles for it.

You know that .01% CGTalk market you're talking about? It's a heck of a lot bigger than you're making it out to be. You see, CGTalk isn't the only site alive with Go Nintendo! babble. Go to just about any other gaming site (Even Slashdot...) and you'll see people flocking for Nintendo news. You want to talk about marketing? Nintendo not only creamed Sony at E3, but the news sites are STILL alive with ripples from those events. Nintendo has a strong game plan. They've proven it with the DS. That thing is like the N64 going against the PS2 (I'm referring to the PSP) and in a year it has become a must-have item. The Wii is definitely being poised in the same fashion to go toe-to-toe with the PS3 and the 360.

Sony will likely market the heck out of the PS3, but don't count Nintendo out just for that alone.

You must not be in advertising or marketing, thinking those little websites matter for one bit. Ms and Sony are bringing their consoles where they matter: early adopters and large media outlets like VIACOM etc. They are plugging their product 24/7 to the people they have to reach to get the market share needed, and Slashdot or a gaming site is nothing compared to the likes of MTV etc. Those few 100+ post threads with basically the same people over and over responding, makes you THINK it matters. Look at Amazon sales, and you know better (ignoring DS sales etc, where Nintendo is the Sony of handhelds).
As long as Nintendo does not join in, the only possibility for it to win the war, is coming up with such an awesome product, that it makes the PS3 and the 360 look like a game of checkers.
People are stupid, and the hype machine is effective. The quality of a product is irrelevant.

[Jaspar]

For me it has to be the Wii. Saw the promo vid, and was giggling like a school-girl by the end. It just looks so much fun!

At the mo I have the gamecube, and xbox, and I have to say, I play the xbox much more.

I reckon it's all about the games. The reason I play the xbox the most at the mo, is because there are a lot of good cheap games available for it. With the new consoles, I reckon they have a real problem making them appealing towards the people who have the previous generation of consoles. The XBox 360, has really struggled to show itself as being a major improvement from the XBox (Far Cry for $10, or Far Cry for $80? Hmm...). It sounds like PS3 has majorly messed up it's strategy, costing a small fortune, and losing a load of third party developers. With the Wii, Nintendo could really make people excited about games again, and having cheap downloadable classics could really win many people over.

I reckon they've got the list the wrong way up, should be...

1. Wii (Cheap, innovative, fun, with many good games)
2. XBox 360 (Prices on the 360 will no doubt fall earlier than the PS3, and they'll have a larger library of games than the PS3)
3. PS3 (Too expensive, and I think the brand loyalty that worked for the PS2 might well have faded for the PS3)

I guess the PS3 could still win over people with it's bleeding edge tech, but I still reckon the Wii is going to be a major hit which will be hard to beat.

[sheppyboy2000]

the xbox 360 is region free... to a point [1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Region_Free_Xbox_360_Games)] [2 (http://forum.lik-sang.com/showthread.php?t=9766)].

There's an awful large amount of red there. And on many of the console sellers as well.

PS3 is claiming completely region free, not the Xbox 360 variety where, like backwards compatibility, maybe your game will work, may it won't.

[havokzprodigy]

I was never impressed at the number of ps2's out there.

I bought 3 myself becuase they kept breaking playing GTA liberty city on it.
I refused to buy a fourth when the third broke.
My cousin went through even more.
So that total isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[SalvadorRuizJr]

I may not agree with the numbers, but I'll place my bet that the PS3 will be at the top by 2011 (if the ps4 doesnt come put by then).

[thoughtlesswhisper]

I may not agree with the numbers, but I'll place my bet that the PS3 will be at the top by 2011 (if the ps4 doesnt come put by then).

no way. costs too much. does the same thing as cheaper devices and xbox 3 annd nintendo wateva will be out by then which will be even more kick ass

[sheppyboy2000]

no way. costs too much. does the same thing as cheaper devices and xbox 3 annd nintendo wateva will be out by then which will be even more kick ass

If I want to play Devil May Cry 4, Ratchet & Clank 5, Wipeout 5 (that the correct number?), the untitled Naughty Dog project, the next David Jaffe project, Final Fantasy XIII and Versus, Metla Gear Solid 4, Coded Arms, Warhawk, Gundam PS3 and Lair, it doesn't matter how much more ass is kicked by 360. Because 360 will never have to games listed above.

Why do you always seem to underestimate the rather impressive selection of exclusives Sony has secured? Yes, they lost GTA (but seriously, did they ever really have em?) but in their stead is a huge selection of exclusive titles plus the multiconsole releases.

Fact is, if the games are worth the price, consumers will come initially. This usergroup will support their console before the ever important price drops come. And most of your casual gamers are still buying PS2 and Nintendo DS. In other words, the rush for Sony lies in the hardcore.

Incidently, what does the price tag of $200 have to do with the casual gaming market? I'll reveal the answer after I've gotten a response.

[AdamHerbert]

If I want to play Devil May Cry 4, Ratchet & Clank 5, Wipeout 5 (that the correct number?), the untitled Naughty Dog project, the next David Jaffe project, Final Fantasy XIII and Versus, Metla Gear Solid 4, Coded Arms, Warhawk, Gundam PS3 and Lair, it doesn't matter how much more ass is kicked by 360. Because 360 will never have to games listed above.


Those all may be exclusives, but why do I want to play the 4th, 5th and 6th+ installments of these games? I'm much more excited about new games like Gears of War, Assasins Creed, Huxley, Mass Effect and Heavenly Sword.

BTW, here is a list of exclusives for each system.

Playstation 3 exclusive games (not announced for Xbox 360):
Eight days
5th Phantom Saga (Confirmation (http://games.kikizo.com/news/200509/113.asp))
6GUN II
Afrika
Angel Rings
Black Blade
Blade Storm: Hundred Years War
Bomberman
Coded Arms Assault (Confirmation (http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=822))
Dark RPG (Working Title)
Derby Stallion
Devil May Cry 4 (Confirmation (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/DMC4_Not_A_PS3_Exclusive__9125_4394_0.htm))
Driver
Endless Saga (Confirmation (http://www.gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=6732))
EyeDentify
Fatal Inertia (Confirmation (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/703/703918p1.html))
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIII Versus
Formula 1
Full Auto 2 (Confirmation (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/02/sega-announces-ps3-exclusive-full-auto-2/))
Genji 2
Gradius
Grand Turismo 5
Guan Yu Project (Dynasty Warriors 6)
Heavenly Sword
Hot Shots Golf 5
Iron and the Maiden
Jack and Dexter
Killzone 3
Lair
Metal Gear Solid 4 (Confirmation (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/news.html?sid=6113163))
MMORPG from Square-Enix (Working Title)
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam World
Monster Hunter 3
Monster Kingdom
Motor Storm
Naughty Dog (Working Title)
Ni-Oh
Omikron 2
Ratchet and Clank 5
Redwood Falls
Resistance: Fall of Man
Ridge Racer 7 (Confirmation (http://spong.com/article/9908/Ridge+Racer+7+for+PlayStation+3))
Rockstar Old West Title (Working Title)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Tekken 6
The Eye of Judgment (Working title)
The Getaway
The Wall
Unreal Tournament 2007 (Confirmation (http://www.thila.ropage.com/index.php/2006/05/18/unreal-tournament-2007-will-be-a-ps3-exclusive-according-to-epic-games/))
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom
Virtual Fighter 5 (Confirmation (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9218))
WarDevil Enigma (Confirmation (http://xbox2news.com/news3.php?subaction=showfull&id=1147360574&archive=&start_from=&ucat=))
Warhawk
Way of the Samurai 3

Xbox 360 exclusive games (not announced for PS3):
Amped 3
APB
Battle Angel
Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
Blue Dragon
Burnout Revenge
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3
Chrome Hounds
Dead or Alive 4
Dead or Alive Code: Cronus
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 2
Dead Rising
Demonik
Dog Tag
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Fable 2
Final Fantasy XI
Frame City Killer
Gears of War
Godfather
Halo 3
Huxley
Kameo: Elements of Power
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect
Marvel's MMORPG
Metronome
Monster Madness
Need for Speed Most Wanted
Ninety-Nine Nights
Outfit
Perfect Dark Zero
Prey
Project Gotham Racing 3
Quake 4
Saints Row
Test Drive Unlimited
Thesis
Tomb Raider: Legend
Tony Hawk’s American Wasteland
Top Spin 2

*Edit: I guess Assassins Creed isn't announced exlusive yet.

**Edit: Also looks like Capcom may not keep their games exclusive forever.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/20/will-we-ever-see-devil-may-cry-on-the-360/

[sheppyboy2000]

I shall change the color of titles reported incorrectly.


Playstation 3 exclusive games (not announced for Xbox 360):
Eight days
5th Phantom Saga (Confirmation (http://games.kikizo.com/news/200509/113.asp))
6GUN II
Afrika
Angel Rings
Black Blade
Blade Storm: Hundred Years War
Bomberman
Coded Arms Assault (Confirmation (http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=822))
Dark RPG (Working Title) cancelled
Derby Stallion
Devil May Cry 4 (Confirmation (http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/DMC4_Not_A_PS3_Exclusive__9125_4394_0.htm))
Driver undecided
Endless Saga (Confirmation (http://www.gameinfowire.com/news.asp?nid=6732))
EyeDentify
Fatal Inertia (Confirmation (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/703/703918p1.html))
Final Fantasy XIII
Final Fantasy XIII Versus
Formula 1
Full Auto 2 (Confirmation (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/02/sega-announces-ps3-exclusive-full-auto-2/))
Genji 2
Gradius
Grand Turismo 5
Guan Yu Project (Dynasty Warriors 6)
Heavenly Sword
Hot Shots Golf 5
Iron and the Maiden
Jack and Dexter No sequel has been announced or even rumored. Naughty Dog busy on untitled project.
Killzone 3
Lair
Metal Gear Solid 4 (Confirmation (http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/adventure/metalgearsolid4/news.html?sid=6113163))
MMORPG from Square-Enix (Working Title)
Mobile Suit Gundam: Gundam World
Monster Hunter 3
Monster Kingdom
Motor Storm
Naughty Dog (Working Title) Naughty Dog is dev team, not game
Ni-Oh
Omikron 2 Confirmed as "multiple systems)
Ratchet and Clank 5
Redwood Falls
Resistance: Fall of Man
Ridge Racer 7 (Confirmation (http://spong.com/article/9908/Ridge+Racer+7+for+PlayStation+3))
Rockstar Old West Title (Working Title)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Tekken 6
The Eye of Judgment (Working title)
The Getaway
The Wall
Unreal Tournament 2007 (Confirmation (http://www.thila.ropage.com/index.php/2006/05/18/unreal-tournament-2007-will-be-a-ps3-exclusive-according-to-epic-games/))
Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom
Virtual Fighter 5 (Confirmation (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=9218))
WarDevil Enigma (Confirmation (http://xbox2news.com/news3.php?subaction=showfull&id=1147360574&archive=&start_from=&ucat=))
Warhawk
Way of the Samurai 3

Xbox 360 exclusive games (not announced for PS3):
Amped 3
APB
Battle Angel
Battlefield 2: Modern Combat
Blue Dragon
Burnout Revenge
Call of Duty 2
Call of Duty 3 PS3 is also getting it
Chrome Hounds
Dead or Alive 4
Dead or Alive Code: Cronus
Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball 2
Dead Rising
Demonik
Dog Tag
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Fable 2
Final Fantasy XI
Frame City Killer
Gears of War
Godfather
Halo 3
Huxley
Kameo: Elements of Power
Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect
Marvel's MMORPG
Metronome
Monster Madness PS3 is getting it too
Need for Speed Most Wanted
Ninety-Nine Nights
Outfit
Perfect Dark Zero
Prey
Project Gotham Racing 3
Quake 4
Saints Row
Test Drive Unlimited
Thesis
Tomb Raider: Legend
Tony Hawk’s American Wasteland
Top Spin 2

*Edit: I guess Assassins Creed isn't announced exlusive yet.

**Edit: Also looks like Capcom may not keep their games exclusive forever.
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/20/will-we-ever-see-devil-may-cry-on-the-360/ (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/08/20/will-we-ever-see-devil-may-cry-on-the-360/)

Incidently, your link to a quote about Capcom is a tad premature. The speculation is based upon the success of Dead Rising (incidently, where in the hell is this game new and unique instead of repetitive and annoying?) on Xbox 360. Jostiq tends to favor speculation when regarding Devil May Cry on Xbox. Incidently, Jostiq also broke a news story about Devil May Cry coming to 360 once before but it turned out to be a possibility of DMC 3 coming to Xbox as well when it comes to PC. So no, don't trust stories stating "coming to" in regards to DMC4. Especially considering the director is quoted as saying "much of the code is directly tied to the PS3's unique abilities." So... yeah...

[thoughtlesswhisper]

I shall change the color of titles reported incorrectly.



Incidently, your link to a quote about Capcom is a tad premature. The speculation is based upon the success of Dead Rising (incidently, where in the hell is this game new and unique instead of repetitive and annoying?) on Xbox 360. Jostiq tends to favor speculation when regarding Devil May Cry on Xbox. Incidently, Jostiq also broke a news story about Devil May Cry coming to 360 once before but it turned out to be a possibility of DMC 3 coming to Xbox as well when it comes to PC. So no, don't trust stories stating "coming to" in regards to DMC4. Especially considering the director is quoted as saying "much of the code is directly tied to the PS3's unique abilities." So... yeah...

dude dead rising is kick ASS. in a BIG way. and is totally new. where have u been able to interact with that many characters on screen and have so many items and methods of killing them with all that physics. its GrEAt!! and dont judge it just by the demo. there is way too little in there. im sure youv seen the trailers. u can do tons.

the setting of a mall or city which is familiar with us coupled with the zombies granted, is a simple idea, but somebody had to do it. and they did it on xbox. and its kik ass man!! i mean theres no question.. i dont know what kind of games you like but... but... there basically not the kinda games i like....

[sheppyboy2000]

I gave Dead Rising a rental. Give it the old 72 hours to convince me. And I know you're probably gonna hate me as I say this but it reminds me a lot of State of Emergency. A huge scene with a whole lot to do and yet it feels very unfocused (kinda like a Dynasty Warriors stage... any of em or N3). I'm all for sandbox games but every time I sat down to Dead Rising, 20 minutes later, I'm asking myself is there a point beyond "Grab Item A, use until you cannot use anymore, Grab more items, lather, rinse, repeat." Like N3 and Dynasty Warriors, this is the kind of game I'll buy when it's $10. For my $60 cash, I need something much more focused.

[heavyness]

I gave Dead Rising a rental. Give it the old 72 hours to convince me.......
.....For my $60 cash, I need something much more focused.

i guess you weren't following those pesky missions in the game. the ones that make sure your not just going around and thrashing zombies left and right endlessly like Dynasty Warriors of N3. fact is, once you get into the game and following the missions [and saving what humans you can] you have little time to beat zombies down endlessly. actually, you'll fail the game if you do that.

also, just because some of these games are exclusive launch titles for the PS3 doesn't make them any better then any other launch list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_title

some of the crappiest games made are launch titles. then again, i loved my original playstaion launch with Riiiiiidge Racer and Battle Arena Toshinden

[heavyness]

double post...

[tozz]

I'm missing out on THREE Dead or Alive games if I don't get a 360? Omg, worst thing that could happen, ever. Sorry, just had to... :D

[AdamHerbert]

Incidently, your link to a quote about Capcom is a tad premature. The speculation is based upon the success of Dead Rising

There was a link on joystiq to where they gathered their information here: http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3658&Itemid=2

Fukuda speculated that the "healthy sales" of Xbox 360 titles may prompt Capcom to take currently PS3-exclusive titles multi-platform.

So while it is speculation, Capcom will base it's decision on Dead Rising sales, which has already surpassed their expectations. Will it happen for sure? No one knows, but Capcom could only benefit from it if they decide to.

(incidently, where in the hell is this game new and unique instead of repetitive and annoying?)

Hmmm, never said anything about Dead Rising being new and unique. If you'll notice I named Assassins Creed, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Heavenly Sword and Huxley.

[sheppyboy2000]

So while it is speculation, Capcom will base it's decision on Dead Rising sales, which has already surpassed their expectations. Will it happen for sure? No one knows, but Capcom could only benefit from it if they decide to.

Capcom benefitting is a bit premature. After all, if DMC4 hits Xbox 360, that will definately take some man hours to adapt. Now DMC has a proven fanbase on Playstation right along with Onimusha. Taking the time to adapt DMC for Xbox 360 could benefit them. But it could also bite them in the ass, ala Resident Evil on Gamecube. Keep in mind, Xbox fanboys tended to bash DMC in favor of Ninja Gaiden and DMC4 should drop right around the time Ninja Gaiden 2 does. So there is a slight risk in bringing DMC4 to Xbox 360. Meanwhile, PS3, for DMC4 remains fairly risk free. It's gathering enough buzz to become the MGS4 after MGS4 gets releaed, aka... "must own."

[AdamHerbert]

Keep in mind, Xbox fanboys tended to bash DMC in favor of Ninja Gaiden and DMC4 should drop right around the time Ninja Gaiden 2 does.

Good thing Xbox fanboys don't make up the majority of Xbox owners then. Plus, the only logical reason for fanboys to bash DMC is because they want to play it themselves, but don't want to betray MS. So I think DMC would do awesome if it was ported to 360.

[Stankluv]

Virtua Fighter 5 being PS3 exclusive is a solid 50-100k units sold alone. That game has a solid dedicated following that are in their early thirties. Back in college, '92-96 : (, there were obnoxious gatherings at my student union arcade due to this. It started with VF1, and lasted through 3. I only experienced VF 4 in arcades in Korea and this was after it had been around for a while. Suffice to say, it was a very popular game. (I especially enjoyed the local's utter dismay that round eyes could actually be good at at least one video game, forget Starcraft though... : (

I basically played VF3 exclusively on my Dreamcast and I have no regrets about its demise.

I do not expect PS3 to dominate like the PS2 did though.

[Neil]

But it could also bite them in the ass, ala Resident Evil on Gamecube.

Please explain...

[Neil]

I was never impressed at the number of ps2's out there.

I bought 3 myself becuase they kept breaking playing GTA liberty city on it.
I refused to buy a fourth when the third broke.
My cousin went through even more.
So that total isn't all it's cracked up to be.

104 million sold making it the highest seller (non-handheld) is not impressive enough?
Even if you bought it more than once, no manufacturer is gonna care. A sale is a sale. The same way it doesn't matter if you got an A on your report card in Biology or Gym.

[sheppyboy2000]

Please explain...

With pleasure. Everyone remembers the Capcom 5. That infamous little jaunt that began with one simple phrase, REmake. That was a major gun on Nintendo's side. A fanbase that had already shunned the incredible Eternal Darkness could look around and be proud that they, and often overlooked sector, had secured one of the biggest exclusives in the industry.

The Nintendo market, however, remained a fickle bitch. Yes, they were glad they got REmake and several other Capcom 5 titles, but the most impressive selling of the Capcom 5 (before the deal began falling to hell) was REmake. Impressive as the sales were, they were a little over 1/3 of the expected sales. But Capcom had faith. And so they unleashed Resident Evil Zero (ported from the N64 project believed to have become vaporware). Once again, this game fell well short of expectations and so the decision to limit the production numbers of RE2, 3, and CV promised that, while they still wouldn't grab impressive numbers for these ports, they could at least ensure that, those few supporting the RE efforts on GCN would gather the most valuable titles in GCNs entire lineup.

And along came Resident Evil 4. Depsite huge signs that GCN would lose their biggest third party exclusive, Capcom remained firm in the claims that GCN would, ineed, retain RE4 as an exclusive. RE4, however, would later come to PS2 (with bonus features to make up for the huge cut in graphical prowess) but not before becoming the first Capcom game on GCN to actually exceed expectations.

[nofosu]

104 million sold making it the highest seller (non-handheld) is not impressive enough?
Even if you bought it more than once, no manufacturer is gonna care. A sale is a sale. The same way it doesn't matter if you got an A on your report card in Biology or Gym.

sorry my friend, sony has not sold 104 million ps2's out there, i belive the correct term is "shipped". Not desputing that there are not a large amount of ps2's out there but, i hate it when people get it confused in thinking that many ps2s hvae been sold, sony and microsoft never say how much they sold, but instead how much they shipped. ok rant over :thumbsup:

[tozz]

sorry my friend, sony has not sold 104 million ps2's out there, i belive the correct term is "shipped". Not desputing that there are not a large amount of ps2's out there but, i hate it when people get it confused in thinking that many ps2s hvae been sold, sony and microsoft never say how much they sold, but instead how much they shipped. ok rant over :thumbsup:
Actually you're wrong. In march this year there was 103,690,000 sold PS2's, and that number has increased since then. I think the amount of shipped units is closer to 107 million.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

Actually you're wrong. In march this year there was 103,690,000 sold PS2's, and that number has increased since then. I think the amount of shipped units is closer to 107 million.

where did u get these numbers from?

[Neil]

sorry my friend, sony has not sold 104 million ps2's out there, i belive the correct term is "shipped". Not desputing that there are not a large amount of ps2's out there but, i hate it when people get it confused in thinking that many ps2s hvae been sold, sony and microsoft never say how much they sold, but instead how much they shipped. ok rant over :thumbsup:

Give or take a couple million, I don't care. Whether you compare shipped or sold number between them all, it was still the leader. Thanks for clarifying though.

[tozz]

where did u get these numbers from?
http://www.vgcharts.com/page2.html

Use google for more, there's plenty of charts available :)

[thoughtlesswhisper]

http://www.vgcharts.com/page2.html

Use google for more, there's plenty of charts available :)

i thought the DS recently overtook the psp in hardware sales. and by quite a lot. these numbers say otherwise.

[sheppyboy2000]

i thought the DS recently overtook the psp in hardware sales. and by quite a lot. these numbers say otherwise.

A common little bit of smoke and mirrors Nintendo likes to put on.

First off, VGcharts are based off numbers shipped. So keep that in mind when comparing PSP versus DS numbers on vgcharts.

Second, when Nintendo loves to talk about how drastically they are killing PSP, they always add the "in Japan" numbers. Yes, in Japan, PSP is getting slaughtered by DS. But in Europe and US? It's a much closer race than Nintendo likes to put on. The main reason why they constantly cite Japan in their "we are kicking their asses hardcore" speeches.

Not saying this is wrong... after all, companies do this spin marketing off their numbers ALL the time. Just like Sony loves to point out copies of UMD movies shipped and it doesn't seem so dire, until you look at the sales.

[tozz]

i thought the DS recently overtook the psp in hardware sales. and by quite a lot. these numbers say otherwise.
Check the date, the list is old, it doesn't include ds lite either.

[sheppyboy2000]

Check the date, the list is old, it doesn't include ds lite either.

You're right, here's the better list.

http://www.vgcharts.com/page3.html

[noisewar]

Check the date, the list is old, it doesn't include ds lite either.

Don't forget to look at Japan as well, where it's demolishing the PSP. Euro charts shouldn't look too different either.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

A common little bit of smoke and mirrors Nintendo likes to put on.

First off, VGcharts are based off numbers shipped. So keep that in mind when comparing PSP versus DS numbers on vgcharts.

Second, when Nintendo loves to talk about how drastically they are killing PSP, they always add the "in Japan" numbers. Yes, in Japan, PSP is getting slaughtered by DS. But in Europe and US? It's a much closer race than Nintendo likes to put on. The main reason why they constantly cite Japan in their "we are kicking their asses hardcore" speeches.

Not saying this is wrong... after all, companies do this spin marketing off their numbers ALL the time. Just like Sony loves to point out copies of UMD movies shipped and it doesn't seem so dire, until you look at the sales.

A ha, so you see tozz, fanboy, ops i mean Sheppyboy said that vgcharts are SHIPPED numbers not SALES.. a contradiction to what you said.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

double post

[ParamountCell]

sorry my friend, sony has not sold 104 million ps2's out there, i belive the correct term is "shipped". Not desputing that there are not a large amount of ps2's out there but, i hate it when people get it confused in thinking that many ps2s hvae been sold, sony and microsoft never say how much they sold, but instead how much they shipped. ok rant over :thumbsup:

hey hey hey hey hey !! :scream: Why didnt you tell me that you had left, huh? and when are you coming back? huh?! Dont even like to ring manz no mo!

Anyway I was under the impression that sony always use numbers shipped in there sales figures, rather than those that are actually sold to the consumers.

[ExKArt]

oh great more analyst news, and more system bashing. It happens everytime a console is coming out and then after everything is fine. PS1? PS2? XBOX? I've personally had enough of this already, but I am constant drawn to forums topics thatsay these things just so I can get a kick out of it.

All consoles will have problems, every game will not look "the the shizz", and the price is right for all the consoles.

[sheppyboy2000]

A ha, so you see tozz, fanboy, ops i mean Sheppyboy said that vgcharts are SHIPPED numbers not SALES.. a contradiction to what you said.

Calling someone a fanboy? A bit low for someone who's been using fictional stats to back your facts and placing opinions as facts when in dire need of something to bash Sony over.

And incidently, Nintendo uses "shipped" numbers too although they tend to call them "sold." After all, do you really think they have a computer somewhere tracking game and hardware sales on every front from Ebay to Alco? There is a ton of Nintendo software out there and in plenty of stores that do NOT use the computer reordering system.

So Nintendo uses the term "sold" for "shipped." Deception? Not really. Because, technically, it is sold. It's sold to the stores. Then the stores have to resell at a profit. Your $50 games cost stores anywhere between $36-$40. In order for a retail outlet to make a profit, they need at least a 20% increase on software sales. Now that covers rent, utilities, wages, etc. Incidently, the huge mark ups used games get at stores like EBgames and Gamespot are where the real profit comes from.

Now if you look at those charts, you'll notice Nintendo's "shipped" numbers directly relate to the numbers they claim as sales. The charts from CG charts are ALL based on numbers the companies state as shipped.

[tozz]

A ha, so you see tozz, fanboy, ops i mean Sheppyboy said that vgcharts are SHIPPED numbers not SALES.. a contradiction to what you said.
Well, this is the part where we start using the head and logic..
If in march a company has shipped 104million units, and by august they've shipped 107million units. Does that mean: a. The stores has ordered 3million spare units to keep on the shelf or b. That the previous shipment has sold out. I won't spoil anything...

So I said they've sold 104million based on the current shipping figure, you say they don't. I have used logic to prove my point, what tool will you use? :)

[thoughtlesswhisper]

Well, this is the part where we start using the head and logic..
If in march a company has shipped 104million units, and by august they've shipped 107million units. Does that mean: a. The stores has ordered 3million spare units to keep on the shelf or b. That the previous shipment has sold out. I won't spoil anything...

So I said they've sold 104million based on the current shipping figure, you say they don't. I have used logic to prove my point, what tool will you use? :)

Hey i never claimed to know any of these figues. I was just asking. I wanted to educate myself.

Same for fa... sheppyboy. I havnt quoted any number/figures/facts and tried to pass them off as real?

[tozz]

Hey i never claimed to know any of these figues. I was just asking. I wanted to educate myself.

Same for fa... sheppyboy. I havnt quoted any number/figures/facts and tried to pass them off as real?
Sorry about that, you continued on the track and I figured you took the stance of the original poster when doing so :)

[sheppyboy2000]

no way. costs too much. does the same thing as cheaper devices and xbox 3 annd nintendo wateva will be out by then which will be even more kick ass

Costs too much is something that can be agreed upon. Of course, in my opinion, the value of the console is directly related to the value of the games. That is why Sega Saturn failed in the US whereas Xbox 360 is succeeding. Saturns launch was... pathetic. Xbox 360's launch was... well, better than nothing. Better than Nintendo DS, that's for damn sure.

Does the same thing as cheaper devices? Now this is the odd part. What cheaper devices exactly? As far as I can tell, it will take $600+ to build the $500 equivelant of PS3 on the Xbox 360. And the $600 version? Well, let's just say $800 is definately a reasonable estimate. So saying the PS3 is expensive is one thing. But to say you can find a system that does everything the PS3 does cheaper elsewhere, well, that's where it all falls apart.

And incidently, who's to say Sony won't be readying PS4 around 2011 either. And also, you continue to ignore the continued impact Playstation 2 still has on the market. Seriously. Look at the release lists for PS2 over the next 6 months. How many AAA titles can one console hog? IF PS3 catches on (which is definately going to be a huge uphill battle), how long do you think it will continue to be supported past 2011?

And you also continue to blast me as a fanboy.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

And you also continue to blast me as a fanboy.

:p sorry. but u know you are. deep down u do. its kool, if im honest im an MS fanboy though i dnt really like to admit it. i say its all about the games, but i dont like playing anything thats not next gen at the moment. so im not really a purist, anymore.

and btw the addons which u put for the xbox are unnecessary for games. you dont need them or it. imnot buying the hd dvd drive unless they use it for gaming which i dont see happening.

sorry if this is incoherent i should realy be asleep/

[erilaz]

Since everyone knows what they're talking about in here, can I ask you which system I should buy and which will be better in the long run?

Or should I just wait and see after the actual consoles are all out and the games start selling?


Hmmm..... what to doooo.



:p

[jason manley]

but ya know...I will end up getting all three for the studio. must have all the good games. :)

[sheppyboy2000]

:p sorry. but u know you are. deep down u do. its kool, if im honest im an MS fanboy though i dnt really like to admit it. i say its all about the games, but i dont like playing anything thats not next gen at the moment. so im not really a purist, anymore.

and btw the addons which u put for the xbox are unnecessary for games. you dont need them or it. imnot buying the hd dvd drive unless they use it for gaming which i dont see happening.

sorry if this is incoherent i should realy be asleep/

Actually, I tend to be playing Chromehounds, Magna Carte, Field Commander, Ouendon (damn Ready, Steady, Go! how you tease me with your difficulty), and Resident Evil (I finally completed my collection for Gamecube.. huzzah!). That's the games I'm playing through right now. If you notice, that's 360, PS2, PSP, DS, and Gamecube all represented on my currently playing list. I'm sure I could try to work Xbox into the rotation but... well, I finally finished Psychonauts and nothing else in my collection is begging to be played there. My recently finished games are Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction, Tomb Raider Legend, Xenosaga 2, and Final Fantasy III (US, recently did another playthrough).

As you can see from my gaming habits, I don't tend to stick to one console. Nor do I tend to stick to any one given generation. I currently own 1200+ games (including a complete Working Designs collection.... booya!) and right now, my collection habits are forming around Genesis and PSX. But one thing I don't like can be split into two categories.

A. Pretending a company can do no wrong and is the ultimate. Many times, these claims are unfounded and untested. Companies can and do make mistakes and claiming they don't is folly.

B. Bashing a company pointlessly. I know I have been accused of this with Nintendo but oh well. I tend to see what can gop wrong instead of what can go right. And yes, that does include PS3. After all, I haven't predicted anywhere close to an easy victory for PS3 because I know it's just not going to happen.

As for "what can be used for games" excuse, it's irrelevant. You said what can be done cheaper elsewhere. But if you do want to get into what can be used for games, fine. I can do that. Were you aware that PS3's version of The Darkness has the ability to play full motion video through in game TV sets thanks largely to BluRay tech that Xbox 360 cannot do? How you can, feasible, sit down and have your character watch the original Nosferatu (among other great bonus flicks) on PS3? That's a launch game that's thought of that. Imagine the uses later down the road. Xbox 360 and PS3 both have their strengths and weaknesses and as Ted Price said, "There is a noticable difference in power between the two systems. But initially, the consumers won't see it. As the developers tap the PS3's potential, we'll see the difference in the long run."

[hellgatemedia]

I run a major gaming store, #6 in the country of a chain of about 800 stores, and we sold over 30k in Madden 07 on Tuesday alone, so I think I can speak on this.

XBOX 360 is poised to dominate the industry, with the Wii coming in a very close second.
PS3 is going to be Sony's downfall. Here's why.
1) The price point makes it unavailable, both to minors whose parents aren't going to spend 600, and to adults who also need to make the mortgage payment, and eat.
2) Although there are people who are blindly brand loyal, Sony has decided to short ship the PS3. When people come in for a system that they can't have, it will be my responsibility to offer them a system they CAN have. They will have two choices, both significantly cheaper than the PS3, both with a great lineup of games.
3) No parent is going to choose a 600 dollar PS3 over a 175, or 250 dollar Nintendo Wii, especially not when they know which system is going to have more ESRB friendly titles.
4) The PS3 has Metal Gear Solid, Unreal, and Final Fantasy. Not bad, but the 360 has Halo 3, Gears of War, Saints Row, will be sharing GTA 4, Chromehounds, Elder Scrolls, Dead Rising, and tons of incredible exclusive titles that make it a "why not" system.
5) The majority of people who in fact purchase the Sony, are paying for a technology they probably won't use. Even if you get the PS3, and you want the Blue Ray, it would require you paying between 25 and 30 dollars for the Blue Ray version, whereas you can purchase the standard definition version for 16 dollars. Currently, the lineup of available Blue Ray titles doesn't demand a purchase, so I see no current benefit yet in having the Blue Ray.
Smart move by Microsoft to have the add on HD DVD drive.

[tozz]

I run a major gaming store, #6 in the country of a chain of about 800 stores, and we sold over 30k in Madden 07 on Tuesday alone, so I think I can speak on this.

XBOX 360 is poised to dominate the industry, with the Wii coming in a very close second.
PS3 is going to be Sony's downfall. Here's why.
1) The price point makes it unavailable, both to minors whose parents aren't going to spend 600, and to adults who also need to make the mortgage payment, and eat.
2) Although there are people who are blindly brand loyal, Sony has decided to short ship the PS3. When people come in for a system that they can't have, it will be my responsibility to offer them a system they CAN have. They will have two choices, both significantly cheaper than the PS3, both with a great lineup of games.
3) No parent is going to choose a 600 dollar PS3 over a 175, or 250 dollar Nintendo Wii, especially not when they know which system is going to have more ESRB friendly titles.
4) The PS3 has Metal Gear Solid, Unreal, and Final Fantasy. Not bad, but the 360 has Halo 3, Gears of War, Saints Row, will be sharing GTA 4, Chromehounds, Elder Scrolls, Dead Rising, and tons of incredible exclusive titles that make it a "why not" system.
5) The majority of people who in fact purchase the Sony, are paying for a technology they probably won't use. Even if you get the PS3, and you want the Blue Ray, it would require you paying between 25 and 30 dollars for the Blue Ray version, whereas you can purchase the standard definition version for 16 dollars. Currently, the lineup of available Blue Ray titles doesn't demand a purchase, so I see no current benefit yet in having the Blue Ray.
Smart move by Microsoft to have the add on HD DVD drive.
1. Isn't the majority of gamers in the age around 25-30, parents and minors are not a big market any more, that generation has grown up (or aged).
2. I've yet to see this, alot of stores around here have decent shipping figures (and they're all booked).
3. See point 1, parents aren't the aim of Sony and has never been. This probably go for Microsoft too, parents and kids aren't buying like 25-30.
4. Comparing two of the biggest IP's ever to brand new games like Chromehouns and Dead Rising makes 0 sense. I can agree on Halo and Elder Scrolls though. As for "incredible titles", that's pretty much up to the buyers to decide and I know alot of people doesn't go for the dead or alive games...
5. Does standard definition give you 1080p? I think Blu-Ray landed the last movie company just recently, they now have _all_ companies releasing Blu-Ray. DVD's was 25-30dollars too, new technology, high price.

How is 360 gonna dominate when it's selling like crap? If it can't even outsell the PS2 I say they have a insane battle to fight with both Nintendo and Sony.

[AdamHerbert]

How is 360 gonna dominate when it's selling like crap? If it can't even outsell the PS2 I say they have a insane battle to fight with both Nintendo and Sony.

Actually, the 360 isn't selling like crap at all. Consider the numbers: 311,000 PS2's vs. 277,000 360's sold in the month of June. That's only a 34,000 console difference and the 360 is twice as much as the PS2.

Keep in my that old consoles have always out sold new ones in the transitional periods. So the 360 is actually poising itself to rise to the top of the console market, while the continued strong sales of the PS2 only hurts Sony because someone who just bought a PS2 is much less likely to buy a PS3 within the next year or two.

[sheppyboy2000]

1. Isn't the majority of gamers in the age around 25-30, parents and minors are not a big market any more, that generation has grown up (or aged).
2. I've yet to see this, alot of stores around here have decent shipping figures (and they're all booked).
3. See point 1, parents aren't the aim of Sony and has never been. This probably go for Microsoft too, parents and kids aren't buying like 25-30.
4. Comparing two of the biggest IP's ever to brand new games like Chromehouns and Dead Rising makes 0 sense. I can agree on Halo and Elder Scrolls though. As for "incredible titles", that's pretty much up to the buyers to decide and I know alot of people doesn't go for the dead or alive games...
5. Does standard definition give you 1080p? I think Blu-Ray landed the last movie company just recently, they now have _all_ companies releasing Blu-Ray. DVD's was 25-30dollars too, new technology, high price.

How is 360 gonna dominate when it's selling like crap? If it can't even outsell the PS2 I say they have a insane battle to fight with both Nintendo and Sony.

Allow me to play devil's advocate...

1. You are correct on this one. The industry now supports $50 standard controllers without complaint so obviously the amount of money the average consumer base is willing to spend has been adjusted, but by how much is the real question. PS3's price point is the most significant hurdle to Sony's success or failure. Don't unplay this because it IS important.

2. According to my area, nobody is seeing any solid shipping numbers. But that's to be expected given no solid numbers were given about 360 until a mere four weeks before launch and, suprise, they were significantly smaller than beginning estimates. Will there be a shortage? Still unknown but launch time WILL be hectic.

3. Price point is a factor. But considering the most amount of userbase always attaches themselves to a console once it hits the sweet spot ($200), price point for parents at this point in the game is insignificant. Take into consideration that PS2 is the ONLY console in histroy to sell over 5 million in a single month and that was the first December with the $200 price point. Especially when two newer consoles can be snagged for under $200. PSP and NDS will have a significant role to play this christmas. Xbox 360, like it or not, still remains largely for the hardcore (and it's software lineup reflects this).

4. I agree with you hear. Both Xbox 360 and PS3 will have a large number of exclusive big franchises as well as exciting new IP's (seriously, who hasn't heard of Heavenly Sword by now?). Although, I agree here too, Chromehounds? You're talking a niche within a niche. Not only is it a mech sim, but it's a realistic mech sim. It has about as much console selling potential as Cubivore on GCN.

5. Okay, let's see a show of hands for people who have never at least tried the CD ability in CD-ROM based consoles. The MP3 functions of PSP. The DVD functions of Xbox 360 and PS2. You'd be suprised how many people WILL use this tech, if they have it. $500 for an HD-DVD player is a tad steep.... but wait a minute, my PS3 has a BluRay built in. Let's give that a try, I'm curious. Oh, damn. Much nicer than SD-DVD (yes, even the heavily bashed BluRay current codecs are significantly superior to SD signals). PS3 will get BluRay into homes and stands a better chance of doing for that market than Xbox 360 has for adding to the HD-DVD market. But once again, all this is speculation.

Incidently, tozz, Xbox 360 is not selling like crap outside of Japan. While hardware sales are under PS2s (for some months), the software side of things is incredible. 360 has had how many million sellers already? Of course when the only other thing being fed to you is Blazing Angels, it's hard NOT to buy Oblivion. But seriously, Xbox 360 is kicking ass on both hardware and software sides of things.

Of course, historically, both Xbox and Gamecube were poised to overtake PS2 based upon initial sales. As I stated before, no clear winner will be decided this early on. Will the casual public grasp onto the concept of Wii? Will PS3 prove too much compared to the game quality? And finally, can Xbox 360 keep this pace up (which, once again, is a slower pace than the original Xbox) when it's two competitors hit the market? It will take at least three years before a winner can start to emerge.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

am i the only person who thinks chromehounds sucks?! maybe i didnt play the demo for long enough, but the mech part of lost planet seemed MUCH better. the graphics and playability seeemed terrible on chromehounds. even that one on xbox steel battallion?? seemed to have better graphics.

[sheppyboy2000]

am i the only person who thinks chromehounds sucks?! maybe i didnt play the demo for long enough, but the mech part of lost planet seemed MUCH better. the graphics and playability seeemed terrible on chromehounds. even that one on xbox steel battallion?? seemed to have better graphics.

Better graphics? Don't know what you're talking about. The hounds look phenominal and bode well for Armored Core 4. Environments are, well, a bit meh but so are most Xbox 360 environments (incidently, how come there is a movement from unrealistic but interesting to realistic yet bland and boring in most western deved games?).

The main thing that will push people away is the overly sim style of gameplay, as in slow as all hell. If you get ambushed in this game, well... it's over unless your opponents really suck but then they wouldn't have an ambush up, would they? The biggest aspect of Chromhounds is the online feature (which, to let you know about human cattle, was almost entirely possible to get a game up and running... until Tycho from Penny Arcade made it his personal mission to redeem this merely okay Mech game in popularity circles. And, incidently, how much pressure do you think it will take to remove Penny Arcade's lips from their remora like grip on Microsoft's Dick right now?). But yeah, Chromhounds, unless you are a very, very hardcore mech fan, holds little of interest. It harkens back to the days of Mechwarrior 2 and 3 hour circle strafe missile fests.

[tozz]

Actually, the 360 isn't selling like crap at all. Consider the numbers: 311,000 PS2's vs. 277,000 360's sold in the month of June. That's only a 34,000 console difference and the 360 is twice as much as the PS2.

Keep in my that old consoles have always out sold new ones in the transitional periods. So the 360 is actually poising itself to rise to the top of the console market, while the continued strong sales of the PS2 only hurts Sony because someone who just bought a PS2 is much less likely to buy a PS3 within the next year or two.
The 360 is closing in on it's first year life span, to not be able to overthrow a five year+ old competitor in that time span isn't very successful, not in my eyes anyway. It would be different if the 360 only was three months old. Buying a PS2 gives you nothing of what the PS3 does, that argument is like saying "if someone bought a GameCube they won't buy a Wii". It's two totally different platforms offering totally different things. Exept the PS3 gives you full compatiblity back to the stone age ;)
I have a feeling Microsoft will do better this time around, the only thing that will stop it is if they abandon the 360 as quickly as they did with the XBOX. Sony will obviously have to give away a piece of the cake since the competition is running in the same lap this time (Last time around Sony started way ahead). Nintendo is promising the same thing as they did with GC, third party support, I swallowed that lie last time and won't do so this time around :) If after two years they still have great third party support I'll go with Wii, until then it's way too much money on too much risk (the console might be cheap, the games are just as expensive).

[NanoGator]

How is 360 gonna dominate when it's selling like crap? If it can't even outsell the PS2 I say they have a insane battle to fight with both Nintendo and Sony.

The PS2 is a LOT cheaper than the 360 AND it has a bunch of must-have games. I'm not saying the 360 will dominate, just saying the logic you've put forth doesn't really shoot it down. Prev-generation consoles always outsell the new ones at first. This has happened for the last 3 generations.

[tozz]

The PS2 is a LOT cheaper than the 360 AND it has a bunch of must-have games. I'm not saying the 360 will dominate, just saying the logic you've put forth doesn't really shoot it down. Prev-generation consoles always outsell the new ones at first. This has happened for the last 3 generations.
My point is when does "at first" end? As soon as it outsells PS2 I bet most people here will screm "at first is now over, this was the initial 360 period". And it won't matter if that is next month or in two years.

[NanoGator]

My point is when does "at first" end? As soon as it outsells PS2 I bet most people here will screm "at first is now over, this was the initial 360 period". And it won't matter if that is next month or in two years.

Erm... Huh? Heh.

Ppl will say stupid things. Always happens. In the mean time, not outselling the PS2 doesn't mean it will not take the lead. Nintendo and Sony aren't even in the market, yet. When those dudes sell circles around the 360, welp then the 'initial period' bit is over.

[sheppyboy2000]

I wouldn't call third party wii support a lie. I'm sure plenty fo third parties will be jumping on board (Trauma Center: Second Opinion being one of my biggest hopes for launch). The real question is whether or not the fanbase will support them this time. I mean, would EA have cut some much Gamecube support if Gamecube consumers were giving drastically lower sales on that console compared to Xbox and PS2?

As for the whole PS1 losing to PS2 thing, that's a tad irrelevant. While Nintendo and Microsoft may have thrown their old fanbase to the barrens, Sony hasn't. Which is why Sony saw a longer lifespan for their previous console than any other company experienced before. Likewise, PS2 looks to have killer support well into next year from AAA titles (not to mention the steady stream of RPGs from Japan going possibly into next christmas). Sony is giving killer PS2 support, thus PS2 is giving killer sales. I expect PS3 to live in the sales shadow of PS2 for quite a while.

[AdamHerbert]

The 360 is closing in on it's first year life span, to not be able to overthrow a five year+ old competitor in that time span isn't very successful, not in my eyes anyway. It would be different if the 360 only was three months old.

As I stated before next gen consoles always get outsold in the transitional period. Plus, PS2 hasn't consistently outsold the 360 every single month, the numbers have gone back and forth.

Buying a PS2 gives you nothing of what the PS3 does, that argument is like saying "if someone bought a GameCube they won't buy a Wii". It's two totally different platforms offering totally different things. Exept the PS3 gives you full compatiblity back to the stone age ;)

I'm not sure if you really undertood what I was saying there. I never said they won't ever buy a PS3, I said they are much less likely to buy one within the next year or two.

[sheppyboy2000]

I'm not sure if you really undertood what I was saying there. I never said they won't ever buy a PS3, I said they are much less likely to buy one within the next year or two.

The people who waited this long for a PS2 are much less likely to buy ANYTHING except MAYBE a GBA or NDS (possibly PSP if it drops) for the next few years.

[Neil]

The PS3 has Metal Gear Solid, Unreal, and Final Fantasy. Not bad, but the 360 has Halo 3, Gears of War, Saints Row, will be sharing GTA 4, Chromehounds, Elder Scrolls, Dead Rising, and tons of incredible exclusive titles that make it a "why not" system.

By that logic, than all 3 are "why not" consols. Wii has Mario you know that's good, so "why not" just go ahead and buy it. I think when it comes to dropping $300+ on a system, it takes more than "why not". MGS and FF are MORE than proven franchises, which should not be compared to Saints Row, Chromehounds, or Dead Rising. Or even Gears of War for that matter. It hasn't even come out yet, it's just hype at this point. Granted it looks amazing, but so did Doom3. GTA and Halo and Elders are quality franchises too.
Each consol has their own big boys, deeming this arguement wasted

[tozz]

As I stated before next gen consoles always get outsold in the transitional period. Plus, PS2 hasn't consistently outsold the 360 every single month, the numbers have gone back and forth.



I'm not sure if you really undertood what I was saying there. I never said they won't ever buy a PS3, I said they are much less likely to buy one within the next year or two.
I'm asking again, how long is this transitional period? If it's unlimited then there's really no point in even speaking about it. Is it 6months, a year or two? It would be interesting with a fixed value for sugesting a good support, instead of just waiting for a to outsell b.

Doesn't really hurt Sony, since everyone is screaming about shortages it's better if they have some buyers later on too :) (I still like to see some proof of people buying a PS2 as a two year replacement for a PS3). <- Think I need to point out that this part is to be read with some irony.

sheppyboy:
That's the exact same image they gave with the GameCube, it looked all golden and awesome at launch and it came with big promises, then bam. nothing. I would actually buy the Wii for the non-Nintendo games, since I'm bored to death of them, so for me it all comes down to that :)

[Apoclypse]

I'm asking again, how long is this transitional period? If it's unlimited then there's really no point in even speaking about it. Is it 6months, a year or two? It would be interesting with a fixed value for sugesting a good support, instead of just waiting for a to outsell b.

Doesn't really hurt Sony, since everyone is screaming about shortages it's better if they have some buyers later on too :) (I still like to see some proof of people buying a PS2 as a two year replacement for a PS3). <- Think I need to point out that this part is to be read with some irony.

sheppyboy:
That's the exact same image they gave with the GameCube, it looked all golden and awesome at launch and it came with big promises, then bam. nothing. I would actually buy the Wii for the non-Nintendo games, since I'm bored to death of them, so for me it all comes down to that :)


Wow, bored to death of games you haven't even played. Now thats some killer fortune telling. Anyways, not a Nintendo fanboy, go sony and all that.

[sheppyboy2000]

sheppyboy:
That's the exact same image they gave with the GameCube, it looked all golden and awesome at launch and it came with big promises, then bam. nothing. I would actually buy the Wii for the non-Nintendo games, since I'm bored to death of them, so for me it all comes down to that :)

As I've stated tons of times before. Gamecube losing it's third party support is more a function of third party sales than actually an indication of how much support was thrown their way. The ONLY Gamecube game that sold more on Gamecube than anywhere else was frickin Sould Calibur II and they threw in Link. What does that tell you about the fanbase? EA learned as well, throwing Nintendo characters into their EA Big titles knowing an EA game with Nintendo characters sells better than without.

If Nintendo fans want third party support this time out, they NEED to support Capcoms efforts this time. They NEED to buy the third party games. Otherwise, like on Gamecube, the third parties WILL go where they get sales.

So Wii support on third party looks promising (and you're right, this does mimic the Gamecube launch perfectly) but whther it will stay that way will remain largely decided on whether or not Nintendo fans REALLY want third party games on their system.

[tozz]

Wow, bored to death of games you haven't even played. Now thats some killer fortune telling. Anyways, not a Nintendo fanboy, go sony and all that.
It's like with FPS games, I don't have to play all games in the genre to be sick of it, or do I? I've played alot of Nintendo games, grew up with Mario and all of that, and I just find them to be stuck in the same kind of pattern. Alot of people like this and I'm not saying it's wrong, I just find it repetitive and kind of lame. Nintendo has used Mario for 140+ games, that alone should count for people getting sick and tired of the same spinning wheel (allthough a majority loves it).

sheppyboy:
I know why it failed, and I still blame Nintendo. It's a Nintendo machine and somewhere they're responsible for ignoring the importance of third party support. They even said so themself at E3 and supposedly they'll do it better this time around (I actually think they ignored it totally for GameCube, figuring they'd survive on their own games alone). The problem I see is that the biggest third party support is "next-gen" mainstream titles and those will look better on the 360 and PS3, hence people will buy it for them instead of Wii. This is why I think Nintendo yet again ignores the issue, people LOVE visuals, it's a proven fact since the start of gaming, a new controller might remedy some of that love (it's too early to say) but I just don't think it will be enough. Another thing that caused third party support to go down the drain was the controller, it was impossible to play any cross plarform titles on that thing, fighting games were a pure nightmare, this was mostly because developers couldn't/wouldn't redesign the games for the GC pad, but it should've been pretty obvious from the start. Once (if) the support starts to crumble, it will crash fast. Another perspective is if Nintendo can secure an extreme amount of previously non-gamers and get third party support going for non-"normal" titles. That could be very interesting to say the least. Third time's the charm for Nintendo? (consoles people, we talking consoles) :)

[sheppyboy2000]

People may disagree with me but, whatever. I personally feel that Wii is more along the lines of a delaying tactic. *dodges flames deftly*

Let's put it this way. To build a 360 or PS3 equivelant system would take costs beyond price for the first time in Nintendo history. That's undebatable. However, what if Nintendo is secretly deving a PS3 equivelant system but waiting until the parts are cheap enough? Sound far fetched? Well, I simply pull a few theories of mine from my ass.

Wii will initially look better than Xbox and given the price, the casuals will flock to it. However, as time passes and 360 and PS3 games start looking more and more incredible, Wii power will begin to show it's age significantly. So as time goes by and Wii hype begins to die down, Nintendo is secretly working on their own next gen console. However, because of the presence of the Wii, Nintendo's lack of presence in this race isn't noticed. Around the time PS3 hits it's $300 mark, I wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo suddenly announces this killer system with Wii like controls, effectively undercutting costs of manufacturing and matching PS3's price point.

Of course, I may be a tad far off but I don't think my theory is too unreasonable.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

People may disagree with me but, whatever. I personally feel that Wii is more along the lines of a delaying tactic. *dodges flames deftly*

Let's put it this way. To build a 360 or PS3 equivelant system would take costs beyond price for the first time in Nintendo history. That's undebatable. However, what if Nintendo is secretly deving a PS3 equivelant system but waiting until the parts are cheap enough? Sound far fetched? Well, I simply pull a few theories of mine from my ass.

Wii will initially look better than Xbox and given the price, the casuals will flock to it. However, as time passes and 360 and PS3 games start looking more and more incredible, Wii power will begin to show it's age significantly. So as time goes by and Wii hype begins to die down, Nintendo is secretly working on their own next gen console. However, because of the presence of the Wii, Nintendo's lack of presence in this race isn't noticed. Around the time PS3 hits it's $300 mark, I wouldn't be suprised if Nintendo suddenly announces this killer system with Wii like controls, effectively undercutting costs of manufacturing and matching PS3's price point.

Of course, I may be a tad far off but I don't think my theory is too unreasonable.

interesting theory. i like it. actually hope it happens. but the thing is, if nintendos costs fall and become cheaper, wont that also be true for ps an xbox?? wont they also have cheaper manufacturing costs and be able to lower their prices?

[SkullboX]

If Nintendo fans want third party support this time out, they NEED to support Capcoms efforts this time. They NEED to buy the third party games. Otherwise, like on Gamecube, the third parties WILL go where they get sales.So people should buy products only to stimulate a market that cannot exist on its own? Interesting business theory...

[sheppyboy2000]

So people should buy products only to stimulate a market that cannot exist on its own? Interesting business theory...

The best way to think of it is like this...

If you want Viewtiful Joe to stay exclusive, you need to spend the money when it's $50, not $14.96 in a Wal-mart bin. If you want Tales as a console exclusive series, you need to buy it before the yellow banner. If you want Burnout 3, you should have bought more than 78,000 and 132,000 copies respectively when the first two dropped.

It's not a matter of this market not existing on it's own, but rather it's inability to exist on a Nintendo platform. Since everyone believes in examples, let's do this.

http://www.vgcharts.com/page10.html

Things to notice? Of the top 40 last generation, 15 of those spots were reserved for N64 games. Now, of those 15, only one was not published by Nintendo. Now that bodes poorly for third parties that generation. But certainly this has little impact on Gamecube, right?

Of this generation, only 5 games from Gamecube made the top forty. All four were deved by Published by Nintendo. Once again, third parties didn't do so well on Gamecube.

Of last generation, 25 of the top forty were PSX games. Only 8 of that list was published by Sony. That puts a whole lot of space for third parties to succeed on a Playstation.

Of current generation, 32 of the top 40 are PS2. Of those, only four were Sonys. Once again, a whole lot of space made for third parties.

Nintendo fans have a fresh start with Wii, though. Third parties are backing Nintendo once again but N64 and Gamecube buying habits will not keep that support.

If you look at Nintendo DS sales charts, you'll notice a similar thing except with a major difference, you have to sell far fewer copies on DS to break even with dev costs than on a home console.

So, as you can see, it's not a matter of people needing to support an market that cannot sustain itself but rather a matter of Nintendo becoming a dominating, and damning, force on their own consoles. When most of your userbase is avoiding Auto Modelistta in favor of Waverace, it does send a message to the third parties and that message is "No room for us here."

[hellgatemedia]

Nintendo Wii has something going for it that the Gamecube doesn't.
I can buy a Nintendo Wii, an extra controller, and 6 games for the cost of
a gameless PS3 console! While maybe a Sony diehard won't care, the Gamecube never had cheaper games than anyone else, and I'm fairly certain that Wii games aren't going to be 60 dollars. The Wii is also going to continue to allow Nintendo to make a name for itself as the system of choice not only for families concerned about spending too much money on games, but for key buying groups like ESRB concerned mothers. 3rd party developers have to understand this, and I think the 3rd party situation will drastically improve with the Wii. Also, the unique control system allows every version of every multi platform game to be entirely unique to the system. Also add to everything the ability to download old school Nintendo games, Turbografx games, and Genesis games, and I think that the fact the system is graphically inferior to the PS3 and 360 is inconsequential.

[sheppyboy2000]

Nintendo Wii has something going for it that the Gamecube doesn't.
I can buy a Nintendo Wii, an extra controller, and 6 games for the cost of
a gameless PS3 console!
Just imagine how many PS2 games you could buy, then. Look, console launches are for the hardcore, period. Always have been, will continue to be. So initial launch price being cheaper than the other is NOT as big of a deal as you make it out to be. Unless the differences are huge, ala PS3. And when it does become an issue, people don't buy tons of games just because "it's cheaper than PS3."

While maybe a Sony diehard won't care, the Gamecube never had cheaper games than anyone else, and I'm fairly certain that Wii games aren't going to be 60 dollars. Didn't EA confirm their Wii launch titles at $60? Aren't most preorders showing up at $60 on Wii games? Yep, saving the money here... which brings up another important question, how much will the extra controllers be? Nintendo is notoriously high priced on peripherals.


The Wii is also going to continue to allow Nintendo to make a name for itself as the system of choice not only for families concerned about spending too much money on games, but for key buying groups like ESRB concerned mothers.

Umm, isn't one of the flagship titles promo videos holding a katana's blade to the neck of a Yakuza enforcer? Isn't Nintendo themselves making some fairly darker games with Project HAMMER and Day Of Crisis? Isn't this point moot now? Yes, PS2 had a large library of darker games.... but they also had the most amount of family friendly ones as well.


3rd party developers have to understand this, and I think the 3rd party situation will drastically improve with the Wii.


Third parties developers understand one thing. Sales. The moral issue stands only as tall as the EA employees daughter he's neglecting due to 16 hour workdays. In the end, if Third parties do not see significant sales on Wii compared to 360 and PS3, expect the N64 and GCN era all over again.


Also, the unique control system allows every version of every multi platform game to be entirely unique to the system.


We saw this with DS at launch time, remember? "The unique control system making DS style duh betta" equated directly to a horrible label in gaming called "Gameboy +." It equated to a nearly identical game as the GBA version but with minor minigames added to "take advantage" of the new hardware. And what's to keep companies from taking the cheesy way out? Supposedly Nintendo... but we all see how effective they are on stopping the crap titles on Nintendo DS.


Also add to everything the ability to download old school Nintendo games, Turbografx games, and Genesis games, and I think that the fact the system is graphically inferior to the PS3 and 360 is inconsequential.
News flash, your casual gamer would rather pay $20 for a new game (from the bargain bin) instead of $10 for a flat port. Incidently, who outside the hardcore gamers, gives a damn about the old school. Much less as niche of a library lineup as PC Engine. You also fail to recognize that, all those games, are not Nintendos to sell. In fact, most of the companies from that era are either dead or sold off through such elaborate legal webbing that finding the appropriate owner of something like Blazing Lazers or Abadox is roughly the equivelant of finding Jesus in a route 66 gas station bathroom. Everyone seems to assume that this virtual console means every game but people forget Nintendo doesn't own every game and has no legal right to sell them.

[hellgatemedia]

We do not pre order Wii games at this time, so if that price is accurate, than my bad.
Nintendo's rep last told me he could not confirm game or system pricing, so we don't presell until we have confirmed dates and pricing.
That being said, without trying to sound sexist, the biggest decision maker in the household is the woman. When there is a minor looking for a system, Nintendo is the choice of mothers. That is why I am selling more DS Lite's than PSP's, even when the PSP is clearly what the kid wants. The wives typically ask their husbands to get DS, and a lot of wives like to play Brain Age and New Super Mario. Nintendo always has, and always will have the reputation of being family friendly. While they also have Red Steel( I believe that's the name), which is the katana wielding game you mentioned, they will have at least the new Legend of Zelda at launch, that much NIntendo did confirm for me.
When a husband comes in to buy a system, the wife looks at the games. The last married couple I helped out with a 360 purchase, the guy came in wanting Prey and Dead Rising, and walked out with Top Spin and Project Gotham because his wife wouldn't allow him to have violent games. Perhaps this is a regional thing, maybe the woman in the household doesn't have as much control where you live. But we are in one of the top 5 zip codes for consumer spending in the country, and quite possibly top 20 in the world. What my store, and the stores in my area do in video game business makes a huge impact on the industry. In my store, which again, is top ten in the country in a chain of hundreds, if the wife, mother, or girlfriend says no, they don't get it, period. I don't honestly think that Sony realizes the position they've put themselves in. People who can go out and buy a system and the games they want without having to seek the approval of someoen else are in the minority. I personally happen to be a big Xbox fan, I'm not a blind devotee to Nintendo, but I think that they have brilliantly marketed to this vital group, I think the Sony has made a mistake in having an expensive system, which is a big no no because the wives, girlfriends, mothers do not want to spend this kind of money on a gaming system. If you could only hear what i have to hear about the 400 dollars for an Xbox 360, and this is coming from people who can afford it and than some. The majority of these women already beleive that the PS3 is goign to be an overpriced system with violent games, and although many of the kids, husbands, and boyfriends want the system, it's going to be an uphill battle. They don't see a value in the Blue Ray player, becuase they feel the regular DVD is enough. And the icing on the cake is when I have to inform them that we expect the LINE to try and get the system to form around 4 to 5 AM the morning at the latest. We actually expect people to start forming the line at midnight the night before.

[sheppyboy2000]

Dude, I live an hour south of you and when I worked retail, the sceneraio was nowhere near as close as you described. The girlfriends here either

A. Groan, leave the department/store meet up later

B. Pick out there own game

or C. Pick out a more violent game than the guy. Seriously. When I saw a girl talk her boyfriend out of Juiced in favor of God Of War, I weeped with joy. Not really but still.

Considering most of the population from my area either migrated from Chi or come here to go to UofI, I highly doubt our location creates that drastic of a change in consumer habits.

[Neil]

@sheppyboy2000:
You're making too many assumptions with your brand loyalty comments. The average consumer is not loyal to the name 'behind' the title, but the title itself. They don't care who the developer or publisher is, they are interested in what the game is about. The mothers who go and buy a videogame for the child on their birthday or xmas don't ask the store clerk to point her to all games developed by Nintendo, she just asks for a Mario title. Or they ask "what's good". Nintendo just happens to not let go of their babies, so it happens that Nintendo continues to be the name behind it. If I ask someone, who made Splinter Cell or who made Rainbow Six, I doubt they actually know.

Nintendo has been difficult to develop for being the hardware and the controller layout and the lack of online gaming from the get-go. They also came out of the gates slowly. So if a third party developer wants to make as much money as possible, they are going to target their release to the consol which has the most units sold (largest audience). They will port the title over to the other consols, but it's never as good as the original target.

And in regards to old school gaming being dead. The Namco Museum titles have all performed pretty good for being nothing more than just direct ports.

[AdamHerbert]

I'm asking again, how long is this transitional period? If it's unlimited then there's really no point in even speaking about it. Is it 6months, a year or two? It would be interesting with a fixed value for sugesting a good support, instead of just waiting for a to outsell b.

There isn't an exact date, but you have to at least wait until Sony and Nintendo release their next-gen consoles. I would say within a year of their release you could assume that the next generation is offically here.

Doesn't really hurt Sony, since everyone is screaming about shortages it's better if they have some buyers later on too :) (I still like to see some proof of people buying a PS2 as a two year replacement for a PS3). <- Think I need to point out that this part is to be read with some irony.


It might not seem like it would initially hurt Sony, but don't forget that they are starting out behind MS this time and need to hit the ground running with the PS3 to entrench themselves in the next-gen market. If they lose a million people to the PS2 market it will hurt the PS3's chances for success. It may not be the deciding factor, but that's still a huge hit. As for the proof, it's pretty hard to come by in statistical numbers, but using logic will suffice. The typical gamer, not the hardcore, is not going to spend $1000+ a year on video games. If they bought a PS2 and accessories for $250+ another $100 on games that's $350. Now the cost of a PS3, let's stick with the cheap version, $500 + $100 on accessories + $120 on video games is $720. Combine those and you're over $1000 and that's being conservative with accessories and games. So again, the majority of those people that have already bought a PS2 wtihin the last year will be highly unlikely to buy a PS3 anytime soon.

[LaVolpe]

when you get tired of arguing with each other, here's an amusing article that brings us back to that magical spring of 2000 and the PS2's launch..

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/08/25/confessions-of-a-rebel-hype-101/#more-3718

( apologies for no html skills, maybe a mod can clean it up)


\ my ps2 seems to be short one matrix, dammit...

[hiphopcr]

Incidently, who outside the hardcore gamers, gives a damn about the old school.
Uh, I thought everyone outside of hardcore gamers wants to play old school games. Isn't that the point? People that haven't played games since the NES are excited to play NES games again?

[tozz]

There isn't an exact date, but you have to at least wait until Sony and Nintendo release their next-gen consoles. I would say within a year of their release you could assume that the next generation is offically here.



It might not seem like it would initially hurt Sony, but don't forget that they are starting out behind MS this time and need to hit the ground running with the PS3 to entrench themselves in the next-gen market. If they lose a million people to the PS2 market it will hurt the PS3's chances for success. It may not be the deciding factor, but that's still a huge hit. As for the proof, it's pretty hard to come by in statistical numbers, but using logic will suffice. The typical gamer, not the hardcore, is not going to spend $1000+ a year on video games. If they bought a PS2 and accessories for $250+ another $100 on games that's $350. Now the cost of a PS3, let's stick with the cheap version, $500 + $100 on accessories + $120 on video games is $720. Combine those and you're over $1000 and that's being conservative with accessories and games. So again, the majority of those people that have already bought a PS2 wtihin the last year will be highly unlikely to buy a PS3 anytime soon.
So Microsoft gets a year to outsell the PS2 before we're claiming it's next gen? Of course they will outsell it eventually, I just think they should've done so alot sooner.
Dude, $100 of accessories? You gonna buy three new controllers at launch? I have no idea where you got that from so if you could provide some sale info it would be great (stuff like this is stored and charted, I just don't know where to find it).

hellgatemedia:
That's the most screwed image of game purchases I've ever seen/read. You make it sound like it's families and the mother who is the number 1 gamer out there, that's hardly the case, I wouldn't even call it close. And as I said before, this demographic is never what Sony aimed for, as you said, bad buyers only buying a single type of game.

[sheppyboy2000]

Uh, I thought everyone outside of hardcore gamers wants to play old school games. Isn't that the point? People that haven't played games since the NES are excited to play NES games again?

Most people outside of hardcore gamers have only a vague clue about what the hell Wii is. Most of your casual gamers go for either graphics or familiar brands. Most people will likely ignore this feature in the casual gaming market. After all, if you ask your avergae casual gamer, "Are you excited to play Snake Rattle N Roll again?" they'll give you a blank stare and go back to madden or brain age. I could be wrong but... how successful was the GBA classic lineups again? Outside of Nintendo titles (reference earlier post by me), a vast majority of them ended up at $5-$10 closeouts.

[heavyness]

when you get tired of arguing with each other, here's an amusing article that brings us back to that magical spring of 2000 and the PS2's launch..

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/08/25/confessions-of-a-rebel-hype-101/#more-3718

( apologies for no html skills, maybe a mod can clean it up)


\ my ps2 seems to be short one matrix, dammit...

haha, i like this one..

“…the most significant aspect of the PS2 might be its ability to hook into the Internet, making it a ‘Trojan horse’ to bring online gaming, e-commerce, Web browsing, e-mail and downloading of music, software and video into the home.”

sounds like he is talking about the Xbox 360.

[AdamHerbert]

Dude, $100 of accessories? You gonna buy three new controllers at launch? I have no idea where you got that from so if you could provide some sale info it would be great (stuff like this is stored and charted, I just don't know where to find it).



Well, they haven't released any real info on the pricing of accessories, but let's go from MS's price points as a guide. $100 is actually very easy to get to.

$50 wireless controller(Sony's may be more considering they have their motion detector)

$20 bucks for one play and charge kit. Most would buy one for each controller but for arguments sake let's say you buy one.

Oh damn, we bought the cheap version, but want to hook up to the internet via our wireless network. There is $100 for the adapter alone.

Let's say Sony decides to milk the consumers for everything they can like MS did.

$40 for the HD cables if you want it play in HD

$20 to plug it in to your surround sound system

Depending on how Sony decides to package the PS3 you may have to buy a headset if you want to talk on the internet. Easily another $20.

So $100 in accessories isn't unrealistic at all.

[ParamountCell]

haha, i like this one..



sounds like he is talking about the Xbox 360.

This is by far my favorite, lol, gotta love ken!



“You can communicate to a new cybercity,’ ‘This will be the ideal home server. Did you see the movie The Matrix? Same interface. Same concept. Starting from next year, you can jack into The Matrix!’”

[sheppyboy2000]

Well, they haven't released any real info on the pricing of accessories, but let's go from MS's price points as a guide. $100 is actually very easy to get to.

$50 wireless controller(Sony's may be more considering they have their motion detector)

$20 bucks for one play and charge kit. Most would buy one for each controller but for arguments sake let's say you buy one.

Oh damn, we bought the cheap version, but want to hook up to the internet via our wireless network. There is $100 for the adapter alone.

Let's say Sony decides to milk the consumers for everything they can like MS did.

$40 for the HD cables if you want it play in HD

$20 to plug it in to your surround sound system

Depending on how Sony decides to package the PS3 you may have to buy a headset if you want to talk on the internet. Easily another $20.

So $100 in accessories isn't unrealistic at all.

$Just because Microsoft charges $50 per controller doesn't mean everyone else will. After all, Microsoft launched with $40 controllers with Xbox whereas Sony and Nintend launched with $35 and $30 respectably. And a Play N Charge kit? Don't you have any USB cables? MiniUSB to be accurate? Even if Sony charges $20 for this cable, third party cables can be snagged for $5. And Sony has confirmed the controllers will not be playing this "AA or rechargable" game MS has us on.

Wireless adapter for $100? PS3 is compatible with all USB devices that are Linux compatible. Aka, those $35 wireless adpaters work. HD cables.. well, highly doubtful they'll be too much considering high end cables for Sony has usuaully been around $30 on PS2 compared to $39.99 and $49.99 adapters for Xbox. As for surround sound.. well, I don't know what sound outputs PS3 has so I can't comment there... but, wait a minute.

Wireless, HD, Surround Sound...
I do believe all the accessories you listed are directly targeted at the kind of market that doesn't cry at the high price PS3.

[tozz]

Wireless, HD, Surround Sound...
I do believe all the accessories you listed are directly targeted at the kind of market that doesn't cry at the high price PS3.
Spot on :)

As for quotes
The one about N64 being able to render Jurassic Park is kind of fun too, and with Wii they're saying visuals aren't important any more :)
Point is, I don't even think the people being quoted are taking themself serious. That however doesn't justify all the mis-quoting that's been going on lately for the sake of flame fuel.

[sheppyboy2000]

Tonight, I'm going to have to whip out my Gamecube box. Why? Because it has this huge quote talking about how Gamecube will change the way we play and perceive video games. To open up an invisible door to a new reality....

And the quote is from Shiggy himself...

[thoughtlesswhisper]

Tonight, I'm going to have to whip out my Gamecube box. Why? Because it has this huge quote talking about how Gamecube will change the way we play and perceive video games. To open up an invisible door to a new reality....

And the quote is from Shiggy himself...

all console boxes say that. since atari 2600. and they have license to at the time because they will change gaming. they make it better for that generation.

that is in no way the same as saying it will be like jacking into the matrix. that is hilarious. sony is reknowned for their hype. I know ur thinking everybody does that and its true. but not like sony. nowhere near.

the e3 show year b4 last was very lacklustre for xbox360. while ps3 was up in arms as the best show at e3 by far. Why? becaus they lied thier asses off showing rendered footage of killzone, gran turismo and evrything else.

360 showed real time footage and was luck lustre only because it was an honest showing of what they had made and what was coming. and theyv delivered. and im sitiing here enjoying it.

lets see if sony deliver on their showing of killzone style gameplay and dual hdtv 1080p games. any real use for their linux/media system functionality. Just like anyone else who would actuallly use the linux platform on thier s3, they probably already have a pc. wats the need? useless attempt at trying to break into the pc market. good luck

[sheppyboy2000]

all console boxes say that. since atari 2600. and they have license to at the time because they will change gaming. they make it better for that generation..
If you read the box, it was along the lines of altering our perception to a new reality. A new reality is just as grandious and braggart as "jacking into the matrix."

that is in no way the same as saying it will be like jacking into the matrix. that is hilarious. sony is reknowned for their hype. I know ur thinking everybody does that and its true. but not like sony. nowhere near.
Oh really? How about 1 Billion people will play Xbox 360? How about Nintendo's claim that their way of playing games is the only right way? But hey, while we're talking about hyping up, what about all the bashing statements? Like when Peter Moore said he doubted PS3 even existed? Or when Hiroshi Yamuachi stated Sega, RPGs, and even online Gameplay was a fad? It's the hype game and everyone is guilty.

the e3 show year b4 last was very lacklustre for xbox360. while ps3 was up in arms as the best show at e3 by far. Why? becaus they lied thier asses off showing rendered footage of killzone, gran turismo and evrything else.
Actually, because it was PS3's big coming out party. Would Microsoft have held onto the 360 instead of whoring it out to MTV and people who could give a rats ass about gaming compared to The Killers, I'm sure it would have made a much bigger slpash instead of becoming a joke every bit as big as Riiidge Racccer. And, incidently, a vast majority of the stuff shown at E3 last year was real-time. Even the Killzone trailer was realtime... granted, it was heavily sped up but the imagery was rendered in realtime. Just at 7 FPS instead of the 60 shown. I just don't understand how Forza 2 isn't questioned but GT Vision is (seriously, it isn't that much of a leap above PGR3)

360 showed real time footage and was luck lustre only because it was an honest showing of what they had made and what was coming. and theyv delivered. and im sitiing here enjoying it.
Honest my ass. Do yourself a favor, look back at the videos promised by launch and then look at what was delivered. And you're up in arms about the lie of Killzone 3, what about Madden 2006? Look up that Xbox 360 trailer and tell me they delivered. Look up Perfect Dark Zero promises versus delivery. Oh yeah, no lies here. Everything in realtime... like Too Human's promo vids versus the actual game...

[AdamHerbert]

$Just because Microsoft charges $50 per controller doesn't mean everyone else will. After all, Microsoft launched with $40 controllers with Xbox whereas Sony and Nintend launched with $35 and $30 respectably.

If you'll notice I just used them for reference. I'm not saying thwey will definitley be $50, but chances are they will be right around there. IMO they will be more becausethey have the motion detectors.

[QUOTE=sheppyboy2000]And a Play N Charge kit? Don't you have any USB cables? MiniUSB to be accurate? Even if Sony charges $20 for this cable, third party cables can be snagged for $5. And Sony has confirmed the controllers will not be playing this "AA or rechargable" game MS has us on.

Why would I use a mini USB cable for my WIRELESS controller? You do need a battery pack that can recharge in order to keep it wireless and not have to replace the AA's. Also, if you'll notice I'm not talking about some cable, I'm talking about the battery pack as well as the cables to charge the battery pack so I'm not sure exactly what you're point is.

So you're going to believe what Sony is telling you, even after reading that article about the PS2 and all the "gameplay" footage they claimed at E3? I think we'll just have to wait and see on this one.

Wireless adapter for $100? PS3 is compatible with all USB devices that are Linux compatible. Aka, those $35 wireless adpaters work.

I know it's Linux compatible, but I read somewhere that Sony isn't allowing any drivers to be compatible with the PS3 except their own. Not sure how much stock to put in that though.

HD cables.. well, highly doubtful they'll be too much considering high end cables for Sony has usuaully been around $30 on PS2 compared to $39.99 and $49.99 adapters for Xbox. As for surround sound.. well, I don't know what sound outputs PS3 has so I can't comment there... but, wait a minute.

Well if they are $30 on the PS2 I'll gurantee at least $10 more for the PS3 just because they it's brand new and they can. Either way my point is still valid. Getting to $100 in accesories is not hard to do.

Wireless, HD, Surround Sound...
I do believe all the accessories you listed are directly targeted at the kind of market that doesn't cry at the high price PS3.

Hmmm, my question is why do you think that? Are the two consoles coming packaged completley differently like MS did? I don't want to spend $600 on a PS3, but I still want it to hook up to my HDTV and surround sound system. Unless there is a clear benefit, imo the 60gb hard drive isn't, to buying a $600 version I'm going to go with the $500 one.

[sheppyboy2000]

Why would I use a mini USB cable for my WIRELESS controller? You do need a battery pack that can recharge in order to keep it wireless and not have to replace the AA's. Also, if you'll notice I'm not talking about some cable, I'm talking about the battery pack as well as the cables to charge the battery pack so I'm not sure exactly what you're point is.
My point is the Dual Shock 3 is already confirmed as only compatible with it's own rechargable battery pack. The recharging method is via MiniUSB port in the back of the controller and plugging into one of the 5 USB ports on the PS3.

So you're going to believe what Sony is telling you, even after reading that article about the PS2 and all the "gameplay" footage they claimed at E3? I think we'll just have to wait and see on this one.
You know, Sony has repeatedly started the plug and play ability of PS3 on multiple occasions. They've hooked up a USB Memory Stick reader, 3 digital cameras, a mouse and keyboard, and even an MP3 Walkman all on stage at one event or another. I have to believe this ability, not because of what Sony said, but because of what they have been doing at trade shows.

And, incidently, here is the complete list of features cut from the initial PS3 spec list.

-Wireless Router (not to be confused with internet) functionality. Quote Ken Kuturugi, "the userbase PS3 is aiming for is likely to already have such devices in their home." This is why the ethernet ports on PS3 went from 5 to 1.

-Second HDMI port. A big upset for me but seriously, who has TWO HDTVs next to each other to use this function?

-Two extra USB ports.... we went from 7 to 4.

Well if they are $30 on the PS2 I'll gurantee at least $10 more for the PS3 just because they it's brand new and they can. Either way my point is still valid. Getting to $100 in accesories is not hard to do.
Actually, you misunderstood me. I was quoting launch peripheral pricing. Just as DS2 and GCN controllers are no longer $35 and $30 repectfully, so has the price of PS2 premium hookups dropped.

Hmmm, my question is why do you think that? Are the two consoles coming packaged completley differently like MS did? I don't want to spend $600 on a PS3, but I still want it to hook up to my HDTV and surround sound system. Unless there is a clear benefit, imo the 60gb hard drive isn't, to buying a $600 version I'm going to go with the $500 one.
Here is what the $600 version has that the $500 doesn't.
60 GB Hard Drive (anyone with a 360 can tell you 20GB fills fast with demos)
Wireless Internet. $100 extra on Xbox 360
HDMI Output. Sadly, $500 version only does component.
Built in Flash Memory readers.
Chrome logo lettering.... I'm not joking.

-edited due to inaccuracies...

[heavyness]

the good thing is that this thread will still be going come 2011, so we should all know who is right and wrong.

[EpShot]

[QUOTE=sheppyboy2000] Even the Killzone trailer was realtime... granted, it was heavily sped up but the imagery was rendered in realtime. /QUOTE]

no it was rendered by an animation studio. we were actauly offered the job, but coudlnt' fit it into our schedule. Tim Miller mentions this publicaly in an interview a while back. H eknwos the studio that did it, tho i do not.

as far as the madden trailer EA did defintely misleading btu they always stated it was what the goal was. There wer several sony reps sayign that it was indeed real tiem, then saying no it was rendered but spead up. doh.. nope, completely contracted out to vfx studio.

[sheppyboy2000]

no it was rendered by an animation studio. we were actauly offered the job, but coudlnt' fit it into our schedule. Tim Miller mentions this publicaly in an interview a while back. H eknwos the studio that did it, tho i do not.
I'll take your word for it although I do not see how Killzone is entirely unfeasible. Especially considering how good the original Killzone looked on PS2. To bad it ran about as well as the fat kid in class back in elementary school.

as far as the madden trailer EA did defintely misleading btu they always stated it was what the goal was.
Actually, no.

Peter Moore = "This is just a glimpse of what you will be playing at launch."
Peter Moore = "This is what Madden will look like on Xbox 360 at launch."

What they showed...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/927449_20050422_screen001.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/xbox3601_madden06_03.jpg
What we got...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Madden06Screen.jpg
And the price 360 fans paid for the broken promises?

In the second-to-most-recent edition to the Madden series, Madden 06, the truck stick was introduced. This feature allows the offensive player to lower his shoulder and break a tackle, or back juke to avoid one. Another new feature is the 'Superstar Mode', which allows the player to take control of a Rookie, and progress through his career. This includes an IQ test, the NFL Draft, hiring an agent, and other aspects of a superstar's life. However, the Xbox 360 version of Madden NFL 06 lacks many of these features and only includes a play now, season, and stripped-down franchise game modes;

[heavyness]

big difference between EA people telling Microsoft this is what we want Madden to look like and Sony claiming this is game play from a studio that has an exclusive deal with SCEE.

[sheppyboy2000]

Not really. Microsoft promised Madden like that. Claimed that was actual graphics. It was a lie.

Sony promised graphics like that. Claimed it was actual graphics. It too, was a lie.

Both lied. Both hyped a machine beyond it's capabilities. So they are both equal in their deception.

Besides, seriously, who takes things shown 2 years before a console launch as evidence of system capabilities? Remember Mario 128 or Meowth's Party? How about Toy Story visuals (Xbox)? Not to mention FFVIII cutscenes in realtime? And let's not forget the CG cut-scenes in Halo 2 being hyped as "actual gameplay."

If Killzone comes out and looks that good, good deal. But people will still bring that cut-scene up as "lies" or find some minor difference to claim it deception once again. If Killzone comes out and doesn't look that good, let's all laugh at Killzone, again, and move on with our lives.

Incidently, more visually impressive stuff was shown at this years E3 (Eight Days anyone?) and yet people love bringing out Killzone as some big evidence of Sony being the only company to lie big. And, incidently, EA themselves confirmed that Madden video as what we'll see at launch. Not "what we can hopefully attain at some point, maybe" like you claim.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

I'll take your word for it although I do not see how Killzone is entirely unfeasible. Especially considering how good the original Killzone looked on PS2. To bad it ran about as well as the fat kid in class back in elementary school.

all your credibility just went out the window. you obviously dont have a clue. you had me going for a while tho.

btw 7.1 is missing from ps3 as well as all the ethernet ports (which were totaly useless and just put in to make it look like it can do an awful lot), usb ports wifi, dual hdmi output, router functionality. damn... is there anything left?

.... and that top shot of madden is pretty much exactly what the game looks like. maybe the 2nd one is a bit much but only because it is not in game context. the screenshot youve posted looks close enough to the others anyway. i didnt think fight night was gonna look like that until i picked up the pad. ... amazing :)

also... I HOPE u see that i did say all companies lie about their machines. i stated none near the levels of sony. the internet is in agreement with this, look it up.

o yea and im pretty sure that the 'toy story visuals' comment was a claim made by sony not MS. il check that one up...

EDIT:

Here we go...

PlayStation 2, though, is claiming to be able to handle 50 times more 3-D image data than the Dreamcast, allowing it to create characters similar in appearance to those in the Walt Disney film "Toy Story."

http://money.cnn.com/1999/03/01/life/playstation/

[Neil]

Has the truth ever come out about the Killzone trailer? Got proof?

[noisewar]

all your credibility just went out the window. you obviously dont have a clue. you had me going for a while tho.


Just don't argue with him, I hate seeing these forums filled with so much passive aggressive license in data interpretation. Some truths are so self-evident that the fact they are being fanatically and desperately argued against is confirmation that they are relevant truths, i.e. PS3 debate topics. I didn't see anything at E3 on the PS3 that looked so much better than Fight Night or GoW that I had to run to the ATM to withdraw the extra $200 a PS3 was going to cost. Whether that changes or not, my sentiments are exist as a fact for a statistically significant population, 'nuff said.

[noisewar]

Has the truth ever come out about the Killzone trailer? Got proof?

I have proof that after that trailer, not I, nor anyone else saw heads or tails of it at E3, playable or otherwise. Simply compare Killzone 2 and MGS4, no name company against Sony's precious golden goose, and with a dose of common sense we can deduce that there shouldn't even be debate about it.

[heavyness]

Killzone 3 trailer and controversy [here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killzone_PS3)]

yes, it is Wikipedia, but click on the links that take you to videos on IGN and other sites.

[hellgatemedia]

Sheppy, the retail term for what I speak of is called "segmentation", or is also referred to as "demographics", and most major retail chains focus on this. What I think you fail to understand is, I run a gaming department in the north shore, where the average family home is between 2 to 3 million dollars. In fact, there is no less than 40 homes within a mile of my store that start at around 950 thousand, and go up to about 10 million or so. My store is encircled by Kennleworth, Lake Forest, Highland Park, Deerfield, Northbrook, Winnetka, Glencoe, which are some of the most elite zip codes in the entire country. in these households, the husband is usually a very hard worker and often times a CEO, and the wife does the majority of the purchasing. On very few occasions, the husband will in fact go to the store, and LOOK for product, but will never purchase without the wife present. This may very well be a different scenario than downtown, but my customers aren't UIC students. Every store that you see in the North Shore is entirely different than any version of that store in the city, they are quieter, they have different merchandise, becuase they stock items that appeal to women, and they are quieter because studies have shown that this female segment of buyers likes a quiet, and organized store. If you had access to the information, you would come to find that my store, as well as all other major chains, such as Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, Gamestop and Electronics Boutique, have some of the strongest Nintendo sales in the country in our area.
A wealthy wife doesn't understand video games, just that her kid wants it.
She either wants to give the kid what he wants, or she knows enough to know what Mario is, and she wants a system that has Mario on it. These are women with 50 thousand dollar wedding rings on, who have BMW, Mercedes, or Bentley parked in the lot outside, these are women who have neither time or patience, nor do they want me to explain to them what they are getting, they just want it done, and they want out as fast as possible. It is not uncommon for me to sell a copy of Madden 07, with an Xbox 360, and a 10 thousand dollar plasma for teenage boys.
These women are divided into two camps, one group who opposes violent games, and the other who just wants to spoil their child, and could care less what they get them.
The problem is, because Sony has chosen to short ship their systems, when these women come into my store this fall, and I cannot deliver them a PS3, the next need comes into play, they need a system, and they to walk out with something, and there is going to be no shortage of XBOX 360's and possibly Nintendo Wii's.
So here's what I know. In my area, the Sony is going to be crippled by system shortages, and by the Nintendo Wii. We will sell what we get in, but that's becuase people can afford to pay fo rit here. Across the nation, people are going to have to decide, in a world where gas costs 3.50 a gallon or more, and where people live a bit more realistically, does it make sense to spend at least 1 thousand dollars on a video game system with games and accessories, when there are lower cost alternatives available?
Is Final Fantasy, or KIllzone, or Metal Gear Solid going to put gas in your tank?
The housing market is starting to crash, a lot less people are going to the movies now too, people will always need to be entertained, but this is the wrong time for an expensive system.

[Omnifarious]

when you get tired of arguing with each other, here's an amusing article that brings us back to that magical spring of 2000 and the PS2's launch..

http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2006/08/25/confessions-of-a-rebel-hype-101/#more-3718

( apologies for no html skills, maybe a mod can clean it up)


\ my ps2 seems to be short one matrix, dammit...

Wow! It's amazing how short memories are. It does seem like Kutaragi is setting us up all over again for the BIG HYPE. I guess it took seeing something like that to sort of remind me that there is every possiblity that we are about to be punked by Kutaragi and Sony.

Some of those quotes that Kutaragi made back then are simply outrageous when you see things in hind sight. Was it ever his intention to live up to one single thing that he promised? And now he's talking "4th dimension" and "living cells" linking up and communicating togther.

These are utterly useless concepts to gamers.

I can remember all the passionate overtures that were being sung about the Emotion Engine as well. It sounded interesting then too but proved to be worthless as a tool that would enhance our gaming experiences.

It's really something. We are less than 3 months away from the Playstation 3's launch and we still don't have a working PS3 anywhere. The PS3 as a working piece of hardware has skipped every convention since it was announced. Sony is promising millions of units available at launch, but they declared that for the PS2 as well. The end result? The whole of North America only got 500,000 units. And I didn't get a PS2 for nearly 6 months after it lauched. I want one, but I'm preparing for Q2 07 before I get a call to pick mine up.

[Omnifarious]

I'll take your word for it although I do not see how Killzone is entirely unfeasible. Especially considering how good the original Killzone looked on PS2. To bad it ran about as well as the fat kid in class back in elementary school.


Actually, no.

Peter Moore = "This is just a glimpse of what you will be playing at launch."
Peter Moore = "This is what Madden will look like on Xbox 360 at launch."

What they showed...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f9/927449_20050422_screen001.jpg
http://www.winsupersite.com/images/showcase/xbox3601_madden06_03.jpg
What we got...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c7/Madden06Screen.jpg
And the price 360 fans paid for the broken promises?

In the second-to-most-recent edition to the Madden series, Madden 06, the truck stick was introduced. This feature allows the offensive player to lower his shoulder and break a tackle, or back juke to avoid one. Another new feature is the 'Superstar Mode', which allows the player to take control of a Rookie, and progress through his career. This includes an IQ test, the NFL Draft, hiring an agent, and other aspects of a superstar's life. However, the Xbox 360 version of Madden NFL 06 lacks many of these features and only includes a play now, season, and stripped-down franchise game modes;

That's ridiculous. You can't blame the Xbox 360 hardware for EA's short comings.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

Has the truth ever come out about the Killzone trailer? Got proof?

dude ur credibility just went out the window too. the 'proof' IS the trailer. if you knew anything about 3d, it would scream out at you in loads. it is not possible. no way, no how.

is this thread just filled with games players and no one who actually does 3d?

[EpShot]

woah, ok, i think people in this thread are takgin extremes in opinions and i htink the answer lies in the middle ground

that being said. taking anothe rlook at the madden NFL previz, all i see is better texturing, snow and depth of field

@ hellgatemedia from the sounds of it it really doens't sound like your store represents the major gaming community. I believe studies have shown the majorty of gamers to be between the ages of 18 and 26(i believe) so most of those are not going to be living in million dollar homes, even if they come from them, they will hav emoved out and be at the bottom of the corporate food chain. and those still at home are going to represent a smaller percentage of the purchasing population. No tto say that your store does not offer some insite, jsut that it is not going to represnt the average situation. I've been to many stores in west LA. which i believe better represent the medium purchasing population. average income, purchasing for their kids, plus young adults with reasonable desposable income, and it is not the situation that you describe, but closer to what sheppy put forward. this represents at least 6 stores. inclusing best buy, game play, 2 EB stores and 2 game stop stores. Also my girl friedn spent a stint at game play for about 2 months. I agree with some of your points, but agian, i do not believe your store does not represents the average situation.

[sheppyboy2000]

all your credibility just went out the window. you obviously dont have a clue. you had me going for a while tho.
My credibility goes out the window because I chose NOT to continue to argue about something that CANNOT be proved one particular way or the other? That rather than expecting people to present links of a questionable nature, I decided further debate on this topic was useless?

btw 7.1 is missing from ps3 as well as all the ethernet ports (which were totaly useless and just put in to make it look like it can do an awful lot), usb ports wifi, dual hdmi output, router functionality. damn... is there anything left?

-Umm, 7.1 is not missing from PS3. It's supported by the S/PDIF port in the back.

-The router functionality was already called out by me which, incidently, also accounts for the lack of 5 ethernet ports. One in, four out. Which, considering the router is gone, how many input ports do you need for a device?

-USB, we went from 7 to 4 which is still one more more Xbox 360, or more importantly, which is 2 functional ones more than 360 (the back one, as I understand it, only works with the wifi). And seriously, how many USB devices are you going to plug into a PS3 at one time?

-Wifi is there still, just in the premium console.

-Dual HDMI is gone. I mentioned this. But hey, while we're on the "broken promises game," Let's look at 360... shall we?


-Gone: HD-DVD as the standard drive.

-Gone: Hard Drives as a standard for developers to use

-Gone: Built in wireless ($100)

-Gone: Wireless controllers as a standard, not a premium.

-Gone: Larger hard drives. Seriously, where are they? And unlike PS3, 360 cannot accept third party Hard Drives. They have to be formatted by Microsoft. Aka, people who download demos often (like me) are constantly playing the "delete this and this" game.

-Gone: The open marketplace on Xbox Live where users could sell their own goods instead of Microsofts and developers. I believe the community was even bragging on people being able to sell things like artwork and t-shirts between USERS.


Actually, both of those shots came from the "what you will be playing" video. And no, the top shot is nowhere near what the game delivered. Notice the subtle shadows on the players face and how it comes through the faceplace. Notice the variety in the snow flakes. Notice the realistic lighting (and not that ambient garbage all EA games crutch on). The top shot and the bottom shot only have one thing in common, the models are at least runnable. Not the lighting, effects, and shadows, but the polycount, at least, wasn't a lie.

[QUOTE}also... I HOPE u see that i did say all companies lie about their machines. i stated none near the levels of sony. the internet is in agreement with this, look it up.
The internet is naming a bridge in Hungary after Chuck Norris. Nuff said.

PlayStation 2, though, is claiming to be able to handle 50 times more 3-D image data than the Dreamcast, allowing it to create characters similar in appearance to those in the Walt Disney film "Toy Story."
Okay, this one is my bad. I could have sworn the Toy Story claim was made by Microsoft. I'll have to research (when I get home) which outrageous claim Microsoft made on Xbox.

[sheppyboy2000]

And, indiently, Hellgatemedia... you claimed your region represented a majority trend within the game industry buying community. And then you say they hat 2-3 million dollar houses and remains the elite of the nation. Now I ask you, how exactly does your region represent a majority trend within the game buying community again?

[sheppyboy2000]

A little comparison.....
http://files.myopera.com/phoenixp3k/files/msg4_full.jpg
http://www.ps3informer.com/playstation-3/images/metal-gear-solid-4-ss-1.jpg
These were taken from Tokyo Game Show. It has since improved.
http://images.elotrolado.net/news2/100506161410_4big.jpg
Now for some Metal Gear Solid 2 shots....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36098000/jpg/_36098767_snake150.jpg
http://media.insidegamer.nl/screenshots/public/3967/49206.jpg

Now some fun comparison shots....
http://www.generationmp3.com/generationpsp/images/ps3/killzone%2001.jpg
http://www.filecloud.com/img/sized/00/00/25/00002503.jpg

And here we see the original Killzone.
http://costa.kofeina.net/uploads/recenzje/killzone-screen02.jpg
http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/killzone_2.jpg

Do you see where I'm going with this?

[heavyness]

http://costa.kofeina.net/uploads/recenzje/killzone-screen02.jpg
http://wirelessdigest.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/killzone_2.jpg


completely kinda off the subject, but why is when i went to look at some reviews of Killzone, i saw completely different screen shots? IGN has the above screens, but no one else.

http://media.ps2.ign.com/media/568/568333/imgs_3.html

here is what Gamespot and Gamespy have...

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/258/918762_20050916_screen001.jpg

http://ps2media.gamespy.com/ps2/image/article/550/550068/killzone-20040921014251493.jpg

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/killzone/screenindex.html
http://media.ps2.gamespy.com/media/568/568333/imgs_5.html

i see some differences in these shots. can someone explain if one set is cut scenes or something.

[Ninjas]

Didn't you guys watch that Blur inteview a while back where the guy at Blur said he knew the studio that did the "PS3" Killzone cinematic? I mean, I could look it up but why bother when you could do that for yourselves

The point of the Killzone cinematic, and this is pretty standard practice these days, is to give the development team and idea of what the game is supposed to look like when it's done (not to mention to release to the press and generate buzz)

[hellgatemedia]

Ok, I've misspoken somewhere, and I want to clarify.
The region I work in is NOT representative of the entire nation. But, I know from statistics given to me that my store is one of the top stores in the nation, and I know that with most of the other chains, it's the same thing as well. It's not because of anyone's ability to run a succesful store, I'm no retail god, it's a simple game of demographics.
From what I've been told actually, L.A. and New York are the strongest markets. LA I've been told is the number one revenue generating zip code in the country for game sales in my company at least. From statistics I've seen, it appears that over all retail spending is greater in the west coast than the midwest, or the east coast, so no I would hardly dispute LA's impact on the gaming industry.
This is a small part of a bigger puzzle, but 300 of my customers will spend more than
300 sporadically placed customers across the entire nation. Just as 300 customers in LA will spend more than 300 customers in the middle of Tennessee, Kentucky, or Georgia for example. Success in L.A., New York, and Chicago is vital for a game or game system to succeed in my opinion, you lose out in one of those major cities, you aren't going to make it. And it's not because the people in these cities are indicative of what the major gaming audience is, it's because this is where the most amount of money is spent. The people who do buy a PS3 from me will more than likely walk out spending at least between 1500 to 2000 dollars each, and I'll probably have no less than 50 to 100 PS3's on the 17th. Let's say Target, Toys R Us, Gamestop, EB, and whoever else each has similar success. That's just one city, and that's a lot of money. Than there's whole rest of Chicago, and the entire midwest, and LA will do at least 3 times what I do, and so will New york. But here's the thing, if I have 100 PS3's, I'll probably have a thousand people in my store wanting it. This is where the shortage comes into play. Now some people are going to be like, I'll go on Ebay, I'll wait, it's Sony or Bust, and some people are going to look around, and get the Wii and orXbox 360 instead. And I will at least have hundreds of 360's ready to sell. What I've stated is, in my OPINION, that the PS3 will NOT find success in Chicago. I don't think this will CRUSH the Ps3, but I simply don't see the system having any market dominance here any time soon, because of the points I've already stated, and it has to be successful in all three major markets to do so. That's my opinion, in the end Sony will prove some of us right, and some of us wrong, I can't honestly wait to see for myself. Irregardless, it's going to be an exciting time for the gaming industry. I'd rather be making games and movies full time, but I sure didn't pick a bad time to run a game store.

[sheppyboy2000]

i see some differences in these shots. can someone explain if one set is cut scenes or something.

I don't know if I can help much or not but here is as I remember the issue. Several sites received prefinal builds as review copies. Which is why many reviews made mention of issues like LODs being excessively bad or snipers floating in midair due to LODs. Texture swapping was another issue. So some shots out there are really bad and some shots are really good.

I can tell you this, though. My copy of Killzone, graphical, is incredible. It looks beyond any PS2 game I own and that includes GOW. However, this graphics ability comes at a price, and a heavy one at that. Most of the game is lucky to have over an 8 framerate. It is possible to miss entire seconds in the refresh rate. All around, I would have gladly taken the graphical hit if it meant the game was actually playable. It has a dirty and gritty atmosphere that impressed me visually, but the game is a piece of shit. Don't buy it.

[Neil]

dude ur credibility just went out the window too. the 'proof' IS the trailer. if you knew anything about 3d, it would scream out at you in loads. it is not possible. no way, no how.
is this thread just filled with games players and no one who actually does 3d?

Yep, busted! I've only played mario on nintendo and nothing since. The only thing I've modeled is a teapot in max. :banghead:
I asked because EPSHOT said that his company was offered it, and if that's the truth, than he would have known firsthand what they were required to do and how to go about it.

Why is it so unbelievable that companies other than Konami, Capcom, Microsoft, EA, etc., can make a quality title. People move companies quiet often, you can build a team with industry veterans.

[Neil]

Sheppy, the retail term for what I speak of is called "segmentation", or is also referred to as "demographics", and most major retail chains focus on this. What I think you fail to understand is, I run a gaming department in the north shore, where the average family home is between 2 to 3 million dollars. In fact, there is no less than 40 homes within a mile of my store that start at around 950 thousand, and go up to about 10 million or so. My store is encircled by Kennleworth, Lake Forest, Highland Park, Deerfield, Northbrook, Winnetka, Glencoe, which are some of the most elite zip codes in the entire country. in these households, the husband is usually a very hard worker and often times a CEO, and the wife does the majority of the purchasing. On very few occasions, the husband will in fact go to the store, and LOOK for product, but will never purchase without the wife present. This may very well be a different scenario than downtown, but my customers aren't UIC students. Every store that you see in the North Shore is entirely different than any version of that store in the city, th..............
blah blah blah
blah blah blah

anyone care to summarize what this post is all about. Way too much text.

[sheppyboy2000]

anyone care to summarize what this post is all about. Way too much text.

I think the basic gist of "oh shit. Time to backpeddle..."

And also, that PS3 will fail because it will sell out....

[BinarySoup]

And also, that PS3 will fail because it will sell out....

lol yes, from what I've gathered that was pretty much the gist of his whole rant.

seriously, I'm a Nintendo fanboy by heart, and a sucker for peripherals (it started with that darn Samba de Amiga on my Dreamcast, oh those maraccas!). I have high hopes for the WII, particularly since I'm getting one. that said, there is no doubt in my mind that the PS3 will rule supreme in the coming years. in order to dominate the console market worldwide, you need to dominate the japanese market. the PS3 will dominate the japanese market, but I'm hoping that the wii will carve out a good enough chunk there to make it worthwhile for the 3rd party developers this time around.

[mummey]

(Rob note: If you liked this kind of article link, don't forget to vote clicking
"The useful button!" below)

on this episode of: "Pimp My Thread"... ;)

[heavyness]

Finally! Assassin's Creed confirmed for 360

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/01/finally-assassins-creed-confirmed-for-360/

http://www.360magazine.co.uk/360/issues/360_014.jpg

[ParamountCell]

Assasins creed will also be out for pc:)

[thoughtlesswhisper]

My credibility goes out the window because I chose NOT to continue to argue about something that CANNOT be proved one particular way or the other? That rather than expecting people to present links of a questionable nature, I decided further debate on this topic was useless?

No. i didnt say anything like that. Your credibility went out the window because you still think that there is even some small possibility of the killzone trailer being real/possible. You have no clue about 3d graphics. Im not going to go into it, but those who do this stuff for aliving know that there is no discusiion to be had.

Instead of talking about advanced lighting, Ai, physics, poly counts, scripted animation/gameplay hair dynamics or anything like that you used your expert method of showing an order of screenshots as your justification of what the ps3 can do. "but look how this looks b4 and look how this looks now"

And another thing, why do you care that the ps3 has ONE more usb than 360? you made a bit of a big point about it. this isnt tit-for-tat. (hope that makes it worth $200 more) i didnt bring it up comparing the number to ps3's/ i brought it up to show that sony had done more embellishing. We all have usb hubs now anyway. and if u dnt u can buy em for £2.

And the USb port at the back of 360 isnt non-functional 'as you understand it'. Its a USB port. lol. just because it is at the back doesnt change anything. put it on the ceilling its still a usb port. I use mine for extra pads all the time.

I had to put off replying becuase it would take me so long to go thorugh all your wrong points and put them right. you ARE the definition of fanboy. sorry, but you are. you believe the hype without needing much reasoning. iv already said more than i wanted to.

[sheppyboy2000]

No. i didnt say anything like that. Your credibility went out the window because you still think that there is even some small possibility of the killzone trailer being real/possible. You have no clue about 3d graphics. Im not going to go into it, but those who do this stuff for aliving know that there is no discusiion to be had.

Instead of talking about advanced lighting, Ai, physics, poly counts, scripted animation/gameplay hair dynamics or anything like that you used your expert method of showing an order of screenshots as your justification of what the ps3 can do. "but look how this looks b4 and look how this looks now"
Humans are, by default, of the visual nature. And so I brought out just how advanced MGS4 has come along in the four months between showing. Just be glad I didn't break out the Heavy Rain video and really put your arguement of "what's possible and what isn't" to shame. Because, in my opinion, the Heavy Rain video put everything else out there to shame in the game industry. That includes the videos. People also tend to forget just how "ugly" launch window games are. But hey, while we're at it.... fine. Let's go over your checklist.

Advanced Lighting. Even though I still see some shadows, for the most part, this scene is ambient lit. Used primarily as a filler light but ambient lighting is there and, in case you've missed the past 10 years of 3D realtime, ambient lighting is a dead giveaway from real-time and badly done CG.

AI. If you've played anything in the past five years, you will notice the AI isn't exactly winning any awards in this short. It tends to be put to shame by Halo AI. Is't straightfoward point A, Point B mentality. And ooooo, someone catches fire and instantly goes into a fire animation. Real cutting edge stuff never done before. Especially not on Saint's Row where, last night, both Julius and Troy engaged in the nasty habit of walking into exploding Los Carnales vehicles as they attacked the church and proceeded to run around until they were totally sure than all 3rd street saint's were also doused in flames.

Physics? What physics? Everything I saw explode had a set, unrealistic path? A direct jump back from the gas station tech demo.

Scripted Action? Where did I say this wasn't a scripted event. Where did I say this wasn't a scripted event? Seriously. Computer AI can't be trusted to not catch themselves on fire, let alone pilot and land a support vehicle loaded with troops into a warzone.

Poly counts? You can't see the poly counts? Hell, I see the meshes in Pixar films. It's the way I think by this point. My friends get pissed off all the time when I discount graphics because "the mesh is obvious." The Killzone characters are NOT beyond 14K triangles and that includes the hair alphas. Well, at least the hair alphas I could spot. The spiky hair, near as I can tell, is an advanced fur filter. Which, looking at Starfox Adventures and the massive leap to Kameo and Conker's, a more advanced hair filter is not out of the question.

Me? I haven't followed this controversy (which, incidently, Gears of War doesn't even look close to the first vid shown and yet this isn't a royale bitchfest). So the only word I have heard was this video was made using game assets. It was prerendered, but used in-game assets. And that was before the whole thing exploded to everyone and their brother suddenly turning into "eyewitnesses" or people working in the industry who worked on this project/team yet somehow lived entire countries away from each other.

And another thing, why do you care that the ps3 has ONE more usb than 360? you made a bit of a big point about it. this isnt tit-for-tat. (hope that makes it worth $200 more) i didnt bring it up comparing the number to ps3's/ i brought it up to show that sony had done more embellishing. We all have usb hubs now anyway. and if u dnt u can buy em for £2.
You were the one who brought up the USB issue. Don't back out of it now.

And the USb port at the back of 360 isnt non-functional 'as you understand it'. Its a USB port. lol. just because it is at the back doesnt change anything. put it on the ceilling its still a usb port. I use mine for extra pads all the time.
Well, then. That's yet another thing broken on my Xbox 360 because I tried to charge my third controller through there once and got nothing, nada, zip. So I assumed the problem was the port was locked only to work on the Wireless adapter. Nope, just turns out my Xbox 360 is just a big old piece of shit. Somehow, I'm not really suprised. I'm beginning to doubt I'll keep the damn thing once PS3 ships given the luck I've had with it.

[Squash-n-Stretch]

OMG - The chimps in the board room turned the chart upside down again. :rolleyes:
PS3 will lose 56% more market share to Nintendos Wii and Microsoft will sell its XBOX unit to a yet undisclosed company


and keep the laser pointers away from them - Those silly monkeys



Really? I reckon SONY are more likely to sell the PS console off than Microsoft the X-Box...

[Apoclypse]

[QUOTE=Well, then. That's yet another thing broken on my Xbox 360 because I tried to charge my third controller through there once and got nothing, nada, zip. So I assumed the problem was the port was locked only to work on the Wireless adapter. Nope, just turns out my Xbox 360 is just a big old piece of shit. Somehow, I'm not really suprised. I'm beginning to doubt I'll keep the damn thing once PS3 ships given the luck I've had with it.[/QUOTE]

Somehow, knowing Sony I doubt you would have any better luck. If you want something that will probably work right outof the box I suggest you go with nintendo which has a better history with first generation hardware releases. Note: I'm getting a PS3 but only after its been out for at least a year or so unless something truly compelling comes out that i just have to one for.

[sheppyboy2000]

Somehow, knowing Sony I doubt you would have any better luck. If you want something that will probably work right outof the box I suggest you go with nintendo which has a better history with first generation hardware releases. Note: I'm getting a PS3 but only after its been out for at least a year or so unless something truly compelling comes out that i just have to one for.

Here's the thing of it. Until Xbox 360, I only had two consoles brick on me. One was a Playstation SCPH-1001 due to a botched mod chip install (damn region locks) and the other was a Gamecube lost to lightning. Those were defects beyond the warranty. All in all, I usually have good luck with consoles, and that includes the supposedly untrustworthy Sega CDX which plays Sonic CD like a dream.

I just got the warranty for Xbox 360 because I always get the warranty with launch consoles (those will be the ones to die unexpectedly). I just never imagined an additional $139.99 would have saved me $1199.97 within the first six months (quote Microsoft, "game lock-ups are not mentioned in warranty coverage"... quote Meijer warranty service, "Hmm, that is unusual.. send it to X address and we'll send you a new one."). This current unit works on most of my games (7 of 13 is, technically, most) but it runs hot so gameplay past three hours is out of the question. I'm hoping the cooler running 360s come out soon and then I'll report the current defects and get the better built 360. I don't know what it is but I'm just having real bad luck with 360. Seen the dreaded red ring twice already...

[thoughtlesswhisper]

I just got the warranty for Xbox 360 because I always get the warranty with launch consoles (those will be the ones to die unexpectedly). I just never imagined an additional $139.99 would have saved me $1199.97 within the first six months (quote Microsoft, "game lock-ups are not mentioned in warranty coverage"... quote Meijer warranty service, "Hmm, that is unusual.. send it to X address and we'll send you a new one."). This current unit works on most of my games (7 of 13 is, technically, most) but it runs hot so gameplay past three hours is out of the question. I'm hoping the cooler running 360s come out soon and then I'll report the current defects and get the better built 360. I don't know what it is but I'm just having real bad luck with 360. Seen the dreaded red ring twice already...

dude? what are you doing with your 360? and games? i already said b4 how it was at EA. 200-300 xboxes and 3 went faulty because of power supplies. And most consoles were early release non-retail (basically dodgy) versions, with testers treating them like crap.

I have 20 games. ill be honest, fight night doesnt read too well. i have to tap the xbox a lil lil bit wen i insert the disc for it to work. but thats it. No red lights, no crashing, no replacements.

And your comment about 3 hours then it overheats its soo suspect. I was just the other day commenting to a very techie friend of mine on how all that hype was a sham. I play mine for about 4 hours at the longest. At this time, we had been playing for about 4 hours, and the power supply was pretty warm.

AND.... is this a shock? some sort of revelation? No. It is completely expected and normal. If you play for 9 hours? YES. Its going to be hot. Very hot probably. But what do you expect, most of your waking hours your console has been on.

I dont think ive had MY xbox on for near 9 hours. Probably max 6, but obviously at EA id have it on for my full 9 hours of the day. As would everybody elses. If this really was a problem our xboxes would have been dropping like flies all over the place.

Iv ignored your previous post to me as it is just pointless to argue graphics with you. No one else has jumped in and pointed out your obvious flaws, so im assuming no one who does 3d is even reading this thread. You said the scene was ambient lit, and you see pixar meshes...

EDIT: Oh yea, i just remebered. For every new build of a game that we received, we had to run soak tests. To cut a long story short, we had to leave the build in the console for 72 hours. And guess what the consoles were fine. Remember thats every new build which would be one every two or three days. And many of the same consoles would be used. This to me seems like much more than reasonable use of a console. Anything more than this and you really are misusing your console.

[sheppyboy2000]

God damn, this is how you win arguements? By never giving up? Fine. You win. What would I, and actual 3D modeler know about 3D? Especially compared to a game tester. I honestly question why the hell I argued this long anyway.

[PhilOsirus]

dude?

How many accounts have you created so far? I think this is your 3rd or 4th.

[RobinOberg]

Sounds promising :)
But 2011, aren't everyone looking at the next line of consoles by then? :D

[thoughtlesswhisper]

God damn, this is how you win arguements? By never giving up? Fine. You win. What would I, and actual 3D modeler know about 3D? Especially compared to a game tester. I honestly question why the hell I argued this long anyway.

i dont work at EA anymore. I am a 3d modeller, art student and graduate in MM design. I have been using max and learning 3d for over 6 years. I win arguments by making good counter points to peoples flawed comments.

Btw i wasnt even talking about 3d though was I. I was talking about xbox 360's, prolonged use and overheating. So maybe you should be listening to just a game tester. (xbox 360 MS compliance tester i might add)

Hey Phil. Nice to see the sony boys all together in one place.

[Grim Beefer]

I haven't seen a single game for either the 360 or PS3, that I can't also get on my PC, that looks even remotely interesting. I finally lost interst in the Final Fantasy series after the tenth incarnation became so utterly hands-off and boring (I played them all too, VIII was heading there), and the same spontaneous redundancy can be found in Metal Gear following its sequel. I personally fall into the camp that is sick of modern games being half scripted side shows with mediocre/over the top storylines and boring mass murderings/parlor tricks in between the bad dialouge. I think the rising tide of in-game collectibles is really just a novel admission that game designers have run out of ideas to keep game time innovative. Maybe we should admit that there just aren't that many worthwhile storylines left imaginable that require the diegetic protagonist/s to somehow carry and use an arsenal for the entire plot and to usually solve their problems with violence (actually they haven't turned Rambo into a game yet right?). Not to mention that these generic white male soldieresque gun orgies' (GWMSGO, yes I just made that up) general aesthetic schema is so ostentatiously tinseled they put a gothic cathedral to shame. Seriously, how long are these same tired cliches going to be milked? The increased overhead of these gilded Neanderthals is doing nothing but making publishers less willing to take chances on games that actually innovate beyond these deep rut genres. For the sake of video games that are actually redeeming in some way, I can only hope that both of these systems fail.

[Buexe]

Amen. :rolleyes:

[tozz]

Shortened.
You just described gaming today period :)

I find it strange that you don't want the PC to fail though, since it captures the essence of your post alot more than any of the three consoles.

[RobertoOrtiz]

on this episode of: "Pimp My Thread"... ;)



And that was a BIG mistake in my part

Hi mummey!


-R

[ParamountCell]

i dont work at EA anymore. I am a 3d modeller, art student and graduate in MM design.

I can vouch for this statement, I have seen thoughtlesswhispers 3dmodels and his work is pretty good.

[thoughtlesswhisper]

I can vouch for this statement, I have seen thoughtlesswhispers 3dmodels and his work is pretty good.

thanks alot dude :) shuks...:p

[amfantasy]

As long as the PS3 doesn't spontaneously catch fire and blow up it should do ok.

can't believe I forget about that. I had a 1.6 xbox so I didn't have to worry about that. At least microsoft did something about it, I just wish Apple was a little better.....ouch my burns

[Neil]

I haven't seen a single game for either the 360 or PS3, that I can't also get on my PC, that looks even remotely interesting. I finally lost interst in the Final Fantasy series after the tenth incarnation became so utterly hands-off and boring (I played them all too, VIII was heading there), and the same spontaneous redundancy can be found in Metal Gear following its sequel. I personally fall into the camp that is sick of modern games being half scripted side shows with mediocre/over the top storylines and boring mass murderings/parlor tricks in between the bad dialouge. I think the rising tide of in-game collectibles is really just a novel admission that game designers have run out of ideas to keep game time innovative. Maybe we should admit that there just aren't that many worthwhile storylines left imaginable that require the diegetic protagonist/s to somehow carry and use an arsenal for the entire plot and to usually solve their problems with violence (actually they haven't turned Rambo into a game yet right?)........

You've pretty much explained why the Wii exists. It knows it's the weaker of the 3, but it's not focusing on power, it's focusing on fun! And since there are enough disgruntled gamers, I'm sure it will do fine.

[sheppyboy2000]

You've pretty much explained why the Wii exists. It knows it's the weaker of the 3, but it's not focusing on power, it's focusing on fun! And since there are enough disgruntled gamers, I'm sure it will do fine.

The ironic thing about disgruntled gamers, from my experience, are as follows.

A. They either completely give up gaming forever.

B. They start delving exclusively into classic gaming, somehow trying to convince themselves the many deaths they face due to various problems with classic games is due to "challenge" and not "shitty design."

C. They stand right next to me in the line to pick up their copies of Grand Theft Auto 3: San Andreas.

A is rare. Very rare. But once you become a gamer of hardcore quality, it gets in your blood. Just like someone who played guitar as a teenager somehow never gives it up entirely.

[Qslugs]

Funy thing is this comes up in conversation with me like every third day. I think the industry is more interested in creating interactive movies than they are in making games.

I think the Wii AND the 360 arcade with the whole XNA thing are going to bring back what the industry has been missing for such a long time.

And yes, Rambo was a game for the PC and NES I believe.

I want to play games not movies!

I haven't seen a single game for either the 360 or PS3, that I can't also get on my PC, that looks even remotely interesting. I finally lost interst in the Final Fantasy series after the tenth incarnation became so utterly hands-off and boring (I played them all too, VIII was heading there), and the same spontaneous redundancy can be found in Metal Gear following its sequel. I personally fall into the camp that is sick of modern games being half scripted side shows with mediocre/over the top storylines and boring mass murderings/parlor tricks in between the bad dialouge. I think the rising tide of in-game collectibles is really just a novel admission that game designers have run out of ideas to keep game time innovative. Maybe we should admit that there just aren't that many worthwhile storylines left imaginable that require the diegetic protagonist/s to somehow carry and use an arsenal for the entire plot and to usually solve their problems with violence (actually they haven't turned Rambo into a game yet right?). Not to mention that these generic white male soldieresque gun orgies' (GWMSGO, yes I just made that up) general aesthetic schema is so ostentatiously tinseled they put a gothic cathedral to shame. Seriously, how long are these same tired cliches going to be milked? The increased overhead of these gilded Neanderthals is doing nothing but making publishers less willing to take chances on games that actually innovate beyond these deep rut genres. For the sake of video games that are actually redeeming in some way, I can only hope that both of these systems fail.

[sheppyboy2000]

Edited because it's just not worth the arguement. If people want to complain about Call Of Duty 3 and not even pay attention to Monster Madness, let em. If the industry is now bad and gone to hell and morally incorrect, then I'll laugh that, while they're off watching Saw 18, I'm playing Nippon Ichi's PS3 project, Camelot's Wii game, among many other future unknown quality games that slip between the cracks of licensed crap (btw, licensed crap has ALWAYS been here) and generic WWII action games.

[switchblade327]

I haven't seen a single game for either the 360 or PS3, that I can't also get on my PC, that looks even remotely interesting. I finally lost interst in the Final Fantasy series after the tenth incarnation became so utterly hands-off and boring (I played them all too, VIII was heading there), and the same spontaneous redundancy can be found in Metal Gear following its sequel. I personally fall into the camp that is sick of modern games being half scripted side shows with mediocre/over the top storylines and boring mass murderings/parlor tricks in between the bad dialouge. I think the rising tide of in-game collectibles is really just a novel admission that game designers have run out of ideas to keep game time innovative. Maybe we should admit that there just aren't that many worthwhile storylines left imaginable that require the diegetic protagonist/s to somehow carry and use an arsenal for the entire plot and to usually solve their problems with violence (actually they haven't turned Rambo into a game yet right?). Not to mention that these generic white male soldieresque gun orgies' (GWMSGO, yes I just made that up) general aesthetic schema is so ostentatiously tinseled they put a gothic cathedral to shame. Seriously, how long are these same tired cliches going to be milked? The increased overhead of these gilded Neanderthals is doing nothing but making publishers less willing to take chances on games that actually innovate beyond these deep rut genres. For the sake of video games that are actually redeeming in some way, I can only hope that both of these systems fail.

Because a monopoly by Nintendo would certainly be the best option for the consumer, right? :/

You are certainly entitled to like what you like, but all the casual gamers out there who buy their ps2s to play Madden are entitled to what THEY like. And the casual gamers out there are an ENORMOUS market force.

I don't like sport franchises or done-to-death sequels either but this is capitalism we're talking about; supply and demand. If people stopped buying, publishers would stop selling. But below is the top 10 selling games of 2005, courtesy of the NPD group (published on Gamespot; this isn't private data):

Top console and handheld games of 2005:
1. Madden NFL 06 (PS2), Electronic Arts, over 2.9 million sold
2. Pokemon Emerald (GBA), Nintendo of America, over 1.7 million sold
3. Gran Turismo 4 (PS2), SCEA, over 1.5 million sold
4. Madden NFL 06 (Xbox), Electronic Arts, over 1.2 million sold
5. NCAA Football 06 (PS2), Electronic Arts, over 1.1 million sold
6. Star Wars: Battlefront II (PS2), LucasArts, over 1 million sold
7. MVP Baseball 2005 (PS2), Electronic Arts, over 970,000 sold
8. Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (PS2), LucasArts, over 930,000 sold
9. NBA Live 06 (PS2), Electronic Arts, over 820,000 sold
10. LEGO Star Wars (PS2), Eidos, over 800,000 sold

How many franchises and sequels is that? I count 10. Sales figures give a pretty good indicator of what people want so who are you to deprive them of that?

There's still room for hardcore and niche games and with services like XBLA and Steam, we could be on the brink of a renaissance here. There is nothing preventing them from co-existing. It's no different then music and movies where there is a mainstream and an alternative. If the film studios suddenly pulled the plug on every popcorn flick in production, that doesn't mean Joe Average would suddenly start appreciating the sophisticated nuances of Hitchcock and Kurosawa films. It just means some other hacks would pop up to fill that void. It's no different with games.

Niche games are a lot more memorable and satisying for some of us to play then Call of Madden Gear 18, sure. But don't forget that mainstream games are the bread and butter of this industry and as gamers, consumers and CG professionals, we'd all be in a lot worse shape if they went away.

[sheppyboy2000]

Another thing to notice on Switchblade's list (posted from NPD group) is that not a single top ten game was rated M. That's rather suprising.

[Neil]

yeah and also notice how every game was ps2 except for two. And nearly all those titles were cross platform releases.

[sheppyboy2000]

yeah and also notice how every game was ps2 except for two. And nearly all those titles were cross platform releases.

I think that's more a function of it being the multiconsole releases. This year should be interesting but I can already tell you DS and Xbox 360 will have several entries. GRAW and Oblivion are shoe ins. As is Madden. New Super Mario Brothers should be on there as well. Doubtful the new Zelda will be, though. GCN is all but dead in the water and when has a console ever launched and had a top ten in the same year?

[heavyness]

I think that's more a function of it being the multiconsole releases. This year should be interesting but I can already tell you DS and Xbox 360 will have several entries. GRAW and Oblivion are shoe ins. As is Madden. New Super Mario Brothers should be on there as well. Doubtful the new Zelda will be, though. GCN is all but dead in the water and when has a console ever launched and had a top ten in the same year?

agreed. Zelda will sell more next year once the Wii gets into more houses. Didn't Mario 64 sell top ten in the year of N64?

[mummey]

And that was a BIG mistake in my part

Hi mummey!


-R

Hey Roberto! Sorry I haven't able to post as much lately. I'll get back on as soon as my situation becomes more 'stable'. :)

[mummey]

Iv ignored your previous post to me as it is just pointless to argue graphics with you. No one else has jumped in and pointed out your obvious flaws, so im assuming no one who does 3d is even reading this thread. You said the scene was ambient lit, and you see pixar meshes...


nah, its just that I already have him on my ignore list. I suspect others do as well.

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