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Martin Kay
08-15-2006, 01:36 PM
An odd pattern is appearing with the EI anistropic shader, I'm currently messing with. Using 6.5 on XP. Anyone have any ideas? Cheers.

http://www.martinkay-3d.com/EI_pages/anistropic.html

Martin K

Igors
08-15-2006, 02:15 PM
Hi, MartinAn odd pattern is appearing with the EI anistropic shader, I'm currently messing with. Using 6.5 on XP. Anyone have any ideas? Cheers.

http://www.martinkay-3d.com/EI_pages/anistropic.html

Martin KAnisotropic specular requires "anisotropic direction" - a vector in surface plane calculated based on mapping settings. This vector can be unstable/undefined if shader isn't mapped carefully, same like flat texture is distorted for tangent surface. So, you need to adjust mapping in Texture Window:

- try to rotate/shift shader map a little;
- avoid to use "radial" anisotropic style for non-flat objects
- use UVs if you've them

Martin Kay
08-15-2006, 09:19 PM
Hi, MartinAnisotropic specular requires "anisotropic direction" - a vector in surface plane calculated based on mapping settings. This vector can be unstable/undefined if shader isn't mapped carefully, same like flat texture is distorted for tangent surface. So, you need to adjust mapping in Texture Window:

- try to rotate/shift shader map a little;
- avoid to use "radial" anisotropic style for non-flat objects
- use UVs if you've them

Thanks Igors, I'll try that.

Martin K

Martin Kay
08-16-2006, 02:45 PM
Re applying the shader solved the problem.

Martin K

marcel-eias
08-20-2006, 07:06 AM
Hi Martin,

To create a good look-through .. in a model, i use the clipping mask.
It could be tempting to use the transparency tab. But i could give you a surprise when changing the material settings.
i can not place pictures here, other wise i could show what i mean.
(example: Gloss setting to 1, use transparency tab setup a look-true... , then change the gloss setting to 1... and see what i mean. If you use the clipping mask instead it give the good look-through)

I don't know if you can use this, but i thought i give you this tip.

Marcel

Martin Kay
08-20-2006, 06:35 PM
Hi Martin,

To create a good look-through .. in a model, i use the clipping mask.
It could be tempting to use the transparency tab. But i could give you a surprise when changing the material settings.
i can not place pictures here, other wise i could show what i mean.
(example: Gloss setting to 1, use transparency tab setup a look-true... , then change the gloss setting to 1... and see what i mean. If you use the clipping mask instead it give the good look-through)

I don't know if you can use this, but i thought i give you this tip.

Marcel

Thanks Marcel, Doesn't that cause transparency in the object/mesh itself? I'd like to be able to layer two materials, but I know you can't do that directly in EI, (unless you are using special shaders) I'm currently just experimenting with EI to see what it can do that I'm familiar with in c4D. The two applications are quite different.

Martin K

marcel-eias
08-21-2006, 07:15 PM
Hi Martin,

I am sorry, i did a reply in the wrong list, should be "How do alphas/masks work in EI? "

Yes, your right, clipping will make a hole in to an model.
I saw that you did find out how to stacking textures...

And yes your right again, both program's are different, although i haven't seen a lot of C4D myself.

Marcel

Martin Kay
08-21-2006, 11:09 PM
Hi Martin,

I am sorry, i did a reply in the wrong list, should be "How do alphas/masks work in EI? "

Yes, your right, clipping will make a hole in to an model.
I saw that you did find out how to stacking textures...

And yes your right again, both program's are different, although i haven't seen a lot of C4D myself.

Marcel

Yes, both programs are different. Plusses and minuses in both, although c4d is getting better all the time, but not necessarily always in the direction everyone would like.

Martin K

marcel-eias
08-22-2006, 06:05 AM
hi Martin,

"not necessarily always in the direction everyone would like" ...

What made you look at eias again ?.. did you -miss- something in C4D ?

We do have C4D at work, and a col. is working with it.. but i still need to look into it.

marcel

Martin Kay
08-22-2006, 07:45 AM
hi Martin,

"not necessarily always in the direction everyone would like" ...

What made you look at eias again ?.. did you -miss- something in C4D ?

We do have C4D at work, and a col. is working with it.. but i still need to look into it.

marcel

Hi Marcel, basically the quality of the third party shaders and the integral quality of EI's shading and smoothing quality. Bumps in c4d can occaisonally be very poor- not always, usually they suffice, but they don't seem to scale up at all well. C4d has a less organic look and the fractal noises of which c4d has a lot, aren't as good. Mesh smoothing in c4d is much improved now that N'gons are supported- before a lot of stuff created in c4d was itself poorly smoothed with artifacts at phong break borders after optimisation.
C4d is a great environment to work in- very convenient.
Obviously c4d is going places- I'm not sure where EI is going, as inevitably they are a small team and the level of marketing is zero. I'm glad EI has a decent splash screen now which represents EI more accurately.

Martin K

Vizfizz
08-22-2006, 02:07 PM
I think the work we're doing here on CGTalk is making some waves in the EI community and in EITG itself. Phil Martin (EITG Sales) has noticed an influx of new interest in the program including new sales and so I'm hopeful. I really do believe if we continue to band together, we can do great things and help reposition EIAS to a more prominent position in the CG Community again.

Martin Kay
08-22-2006, 09:04 PM
I think the work we're doing here on CGTalk is making some waves in the EI community and in EITG itself. Phil Martin (EITG Sales) has noticed an influx of new interest in the program including new sales and so I'm hopeful. I really do believe if we continue to band together, we can do great things and help reposition EIAS to a more prominent position in the CG Community again.

Since I started in 3D, many programs have died the death, but EI deserves to survive. Its surprising how many third party developers there are for EI, whereas with c4d hardly anyone is writing shaders if you discount GI rendering environments.

Martin K

PaulS2
08-23-2006, 03:07 PM
Since I started in 3D, many programs have died the death, but EI deserves to survive. Its surprising how many third party developers there are for EI, whereas with c4d hardly anyone is writing shaders if you discount GI rendering environments.

Martin K


It's a good program and usually helps me get my projects done on time. The shaders and materials available are very good - it's one of my favorite aspects of the program.

It's funny how small the 3D community actually is. You have Jay Roth and Mark Granger working at Newtek on Lightwave....two founding partners from the early days of EI....and then Mr. Parscal (I believe he's still around - not absolutely positive though) being the CEO of EI where he used to be the CEO of Newtek.

Sure wish EIM was still in development.

I think there would be more developers for C4D if the user-base was willing to support them by buying their product. From my experience on some of the C4D boards the user-base (generality) tended to complain past a certain price-point (usually too low), which made it very difficult for 3rd parties to make any money.

Most bumps in C4D are based on math greyscale (something I also found in Max when some development was done there)...usually render fast but look like crap to me. The 3D shader called 'Metal 3D' in C4D is the only one that I use there and it has true (non-greyscale) procedural bumps. All of EI's bumps are true procedurals. I'm sure I'm over simplifying things but works for my description.

Paul

Martin Kay
08-23-2006, 05:32 PM
It's a good program and usually helps me get my projects done on time. The shaders and materials available are very good - it's one of my favorite aspects of the program.

It's funny how small the 3D community actually is. You have Jay Roth and Mark Granger working at Newtek on Lightwave....two founding partners from the early days of EI....and then Mr. Parscal (I believe he's still around - not absolutely positive though) being the CEO of EI where he used to be the CEO of Newtek.

Sure wish EIM was still in development.

I think there would be more developers for C4D if the user-base was willing to support them by buying their product. From my experience on some of the C4D boards the user-base (generality) tended to complain past a certain price-point (usually too low), which made it very difficult for 3rd parties to make any money.

Most bumps in C4D are based on math greyscale (something I also found in Max when some development was done there)...usually render fast but look like crap to me. The 3D shader called 'Metal 3D' in C4D is the only one that I use there and it has true (non-greyscale) procedural bumps. All of EI's bumps are true procedurals. I'm sure I'm over simplifying things but works for my description.

Paul

Hi Paul, I don't know that c4d shader, its not part of the program, unless you mean 'danel'.
It was actually the bumps that did it for me with c4d. I got M forge... looks fairly complicated, but then there are a whole lot of presets which look super! How would you compare the triple D aFractal stuff with the NX system, or are they just different. I've ordered the TripleD 'edge' set of shaders as they seem more useful to me. The NX gallery looks mostly pretty uninspiring to me, apart from a few at the end... ;-)

Martin K

PaulS2
08-23-2006, 09:17 PM
Hi Paul, I don't know that c4d shader, its not part of the program, unless you mean 'danel'.
It was actually the bumps that did it for me with c4d. I got M forge... looks fairly complicated, but then there are a whole lot of presets which look super! How would you compare the triple D aFractal stuff with the NX system, or are they just different. I've ordered the TripleD 'edge' set of shaders as they seem more useful to me. The NX gallery looks mostly pretty uninspiring to me, apart from a few at the end... ;-)

Martin K

The shader is there in V7.3....it's part of the 'shaders' roll-out. Been there since the beginning but only fairly recently could it be combined with other shaders or used in an attribute slot.

MForge is very good if I don't say so myself:-) Without the presets to get started it could be way too much to understand right off.

The Thriple D aFractal stuff is simpler and more immediate while the NX is way deeper....forgot about those at the end. Wouldn't have a clue now how they were made:-)

They are both good.

Paul

Martin Kay
08-23-2006, 11:01 PM
The shader is there in V7.3....it's part of the 'shaders' roll-out. Been there since the beginning but only fairly recently could it be combined with other shaders or used in an attribute slot.

MForge is very good if I don't say so myself:-) Without the presets to get started it could be way too much to understand right off.

The Thriple D aFractal stuff is simpler and more immediate while the NX is way deeper....forgot about those at the end. Wouldn't have a clue now how they were made:-)

They are both good.

Paul

You must be talking about Lumas, which is similar to 'danel' I do like the look of the NX interface.
Too much guitar playing I think... ;-)

Martin K

PaulS2
08-23-2006, 11:05 PM
You must be talking about Lumas, which is similar to 'danel' I do like the look of the NX interface.
Too much guitar playing I think... ;-)

Martin K


Nope.

It's called "Metal 3D". The 3D designates that it is/was a 3D procedural shader Maxon developed....just look for it, it's in there:-)

I've been playing with a new pluggin so not much work or guitar playing today.

Martin Kay
08-24-2006, 07:55 AM
Nope.

It's called "Metal 3D". The 3D designates that it is/was a 3D procedural shader Maxon developed....just look for it, it's in there:-)

I've been playing with a new pluggin so not much work or guitar playing today.

Got it! Its not a proper 'metal' shader, but I see what you mean. That simple ramp is very powerful and has been there since c4d started out... Its better than all the other sla noise things put together. The bumps are much better without that awful double image effect you sometimes get if you stray too far. I knew it was there, but never really gave it more than a quick look. I never really tried out in any depth any of c4d's procedurals until recently as I'd come to a crossroads, hence my update to 6.5. To be fair a lot of c4d stuff is sufficiently useable. EI scores when you get up real close. I sure got a lot to get my head around now...

I hope you are coming up to everyones expectations with that new plugin...! Oh the pressure ;-) Lol!

Martin K

PaulS2
08-24-2006, 01:52 PM
Got it! Its not a proper 'metal' shader, but I see what you mean. That simple ramp is very powerful and has been there since c4d started out... Its better than all the other sla noise things put together.

No not a metal shader at all...just named that. It is a good one and is similar in quality to all of the shaders in EI.

[/QUOTE]The bumps are much better without that awful double image effect you sometimes get if you stray too far. I knew it was there, but never really gave it more than a quick look. I never really tried out in any depth any of c4d's procedurals until recently as I'd come to a crossroads, hence my update to 6.5. To be fair a lot of c4d stuff is sufficiently useable. EI scores when you get up real close. I sure got a lot to get my head around now...[/QUOTE]

C4D is pretty good and I use it for the amazing instancer called "Jenna".....then usually export from there into EI. There's an example of a developer who almost 'made' C4d usable and then just quit developing for it.

I'm using 7.3 and it will cost about $1000:-( to upgrade to a current version...probably won't. Max is going to cost me the amount of a new seat to upgrade!!! That's just silly and don't forsee myself doing that either.

[/QUOTE]I hope you are coming up to everyones expectations with that new plugin...! Oh the pressure ;-) Lol!
Martin K[/QUOTE]

LOL....
......I can always become a musician if it doesn't work out. Well, maybe not.

Paul

Martin Kay
08-24-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm using 7.3 and it will cost about $1000:-( to upgrade to a current version...probably won't. Max is going to cost me the amount of a new seat to upgrade!!! That's just silly and don't forsee myself doing that either.

Well, yes I'm still on 8.5 and its a fair price to upgrade to 9.6, about 800 to keep with the XL package, or about 400 just getting the base app plus AR. (I mostly just do this for fun...) But very little has changed for someone interested in stills- the AR has been improved a bit. A big plus is Ngons which salvages some mesh in the smoothing department which was frankly unuseable previously- (mesh created in c4D I mean). I noticed you can get more of an EI look by using the Blinn illumination option instead of Phong.

Does this mean you have jettisoned Brazil? (The Brazil stuff looks very good) How does EI shape up for speed in the Radiosity and GI stakes? (I haven't tried any of that stuff yet and its a fair way down the line for me) I'm looking at learning more about advanced Rhino stuff- very boring but essential. I've just bought the dvGarage version of EIM to tesselate acis files from Rhino- like you say its a pity EIM had to be abandoned.

Martin K

PaulS2
08-24-2006, 03:46 PM
Does this mean you have jettisoned Brazil? (The Brazil stuff looks very good) How does EI shape up for speed in the Radiosity and GI stakes? (I haven't tried any of that stuff yet and its a fair way down the line for me) I'm looking at learning more about advanced Rhino stuff- very boring but essential. I've just bought the dvGarage version of EIM to tesselate acis files from Rhino- like you say its a pity EIM had to be abandoned.

Martin K

I use Max and Brazil time to time but in much, much lessening frequency. It's a great combination but I usually get called to do high res work - not something Max likes at all. At times a client decides to bump up the res in a project to poster size part-way through - this happened once when I started a project in Max and had to switch after some work there as it couldn't handle the new revised sizing. Now, just to be safe I do it in EI and over the last year had 4-5 projects increase in dimension after the fact.

EI holds it's own very well against Brazil...especially general GI work. EI is as fast and just as simple to set up. Image based illumination isn't a strong suit in EI though - I hardly ever need to do that so not an issue.

Good on Rhino - great nurbs modeler and smart to have EIM around for conversions. You'll need to rotate and mirror as the Z vector in Rhino and EIM are different.

Paul

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