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everlite
08-13-2006, 03:25 PM
Hey, forgive me if this seems like a duplicate post, i wanted to split up a previous thread to focus more on the painting itself and less on the Camera mapping issue i've been having. If this violates rules, then i'll remove the previous thread :-)

Anyway, so recently i've been trying to do something less fantasy / sci-fi and something a little more real world, and this is the idea i came up with. I want to take this image that i found on www.istockphotos.com (http://www.istockphotos.com) and change a few things, most obvious been the season, then i wish to add a stage coach followed by a few animated flags attached to the wall then finally a little snow falling from the sky, then (assuming i can figure it out) i'll do a little camera mapping/projection.

So hoping this will be a little educational project for myself to learn a few new techniques :-)

Please let me know what you think of the painting so far, still very much work in progress but it's a start. I'll continue to post as i go on. All the snow is hand painted accept for the ground.


http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/summer_house.jpg


http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/winter_house.jpg

The first image is the original stock image while the second is the winter matte.

Moysh
08-13-2006, 06:44 PM
Very good mate. No critism at all. :)

everlite
08-13-2006, 06:52 PM
Cheers Moysh, watch this space :-)

sandu22
08-13-2006, 10:25 PM
you may change the color pallete, going toward icey-blue gray's, not necesarry keeping all brown pallete..also you can work on light a little bit, but may be is just an impression. good work ;)

everlite
08-13-2006, 10:36 PM
Yeah your quite right, it's still very mono looking, long way to go yet. Perhaps a slight blue tint might work. So what would you suggest with the lighting?Cheers - Dave.

Moysh
08-14-2006, 02:39 AM
Realism is what all matte-painting strifes for and this piece is nothing but realism. Imo, real world looks grey and solemn (I'm not being pessimistic ^^). I think the color palette now is just right. Not to mention you have the dark grey cloudy there. If you are going for a bit more blue tint or happier atmosphere, it *might* need some rework on the sky or cloud formation.

shrinkingviolet
08-14-2006, 09:52 AM
looks nice. play around with the cloud formation...also add some fog/haze. play around with the fg too. add some trees a car maybe. good luck.

Kraa
08-14-2006, 01:29 PM
In my opinion the colors are just right, exept the vegetation is too green. The plant in the middle looks quite right to my eye.

Otherwise, great work :thumbsup:

Adding a car with frost would be nice.

JJASSO
08-14-2006, 05:21 PM
great one david, I like this it is looking very realistic indeed , about the fooliange I think it is too green as well, and you need something more interesting in the foreground, maybe some more trees or fooliage , overall this is a nice painting good work

everlite
08-14-2006, 07:38 PM
Too green? mmmmm ... you really think? what do you suggest? perhaps make it a little browner? i don't want to saturate it too much. Just looked on google and found these, so i'll use them as a reference.

http://www.pacifier.com/~pjallen/snow_frozen_bush.jpg

http://www.pacifier.com/~pjallen/snow_back_left.jpg

http://www.pacifier.com/~pjallen/snow_back_trees.jpg



It's still very much in progress, for now what you see is just laying down the foundation to build from.

I'm a little unsure about the lighting. I could go down two directions as previously suggestion, one direction would be to give it character by adding dynamic lighting, perhaps a low lit night time shot with lamps outside illuminating the house. Another direction which is what i original invisioned was to create a scene that would look exactly as i see the world outside, and right now, trust me it looks VERY like the above :-) grey, cloudy and very saturated, typical britain in the north :-)

I've managed to solve my camera projection problem so now have a little parallax, which looks quite cool :-) I've also added a flag swaying to the left, though it looks a little big :-) I'd post the results thus far but the file is 20mb!! (quicktime mpeg4) anyone recommended a better way to compress for web?

I was going to have a stage couch pull up out side, but i've opted for a classy bond like car instead, give a little contrast. i want this to be animated and as realistic as i possibly can. So i will probably render this out on a seperate pass and comp it into the final composition, is this recommended?

I'm aslo going to create a few added effects like snow falling and a candle flickering throught the window bottom left. Any suggestions on the snow would be very welcome, i've seen a few examples so far but nothins seems that realistic. I could either create it max or maybe after effects later?

Look forward to your insight, Cheers again - Dave.

everlite
08-15-2006, 02:20 AM
I've just create a car test render (audi TT), please see:

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/car1.mov (3mb)

(Note, car from stock library, not built by myself)

This is just a real simple test, disregard the slow power slide style motion, lack of wheel rotation, and about several other minor things. For the moment i'm concentrating on getting the car to look realistic, so far it still looks very CG looking and far from what i want. Need to work on the shader quite a bit. Any suggestions?

- Dave.

everlite
08-19-2006, 12:41 PM
Still work in progress;

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/comptest1.mov
- Dave.

everlite
08-21-2006, 01:06 AM
Very close to been finished, a few tweaks left, a little ground mist and that'll do.

Please see WIP, with snow and car;

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/comp1.avi (900kb)

compressions a little crappy, gives it a little sense of realism now that i think about it :-)

Not sure how to create a realistic myst effect, any suggestions?

- Dave.

everlite
08-25-2006, 07:48 PM
95% finished:

http://www.thedaveidentity.co.uk/web/housepan1.avi (2.5mb)

Please let me know what you think or how i could improve this.

Cheers - Dave.

everlite
08-25-2006, 10:47 PM
Yep, i wondered about the car, it does seem a little big. and my lovely flag!! :-( and there's me thinking i was been a little flash ;-) oh well, off with the flag.

15 feet to the left and right!? where am i going to get that from? have you seen the original pic it's a little thin on left and right bits?! well, i guess that's where the matte painting comes in (and your DVDs maybe :-) I'll see what i can do, that one's really going to test my brain.

Side to side, interesting, i'll try that.

Make the snow flakes smaller, this been the case would i keep the same amount of particles or double the amount to compensate for increase in empty space?

More chaos? ok, currently i have facing particles with noise applied. So now i'm wondering if to create the snow as geometry or just increase the contrast of the noise on the material?

Less contrast and more atmosphere. mmm, lets see what i can come up with.

Work hard? i'm going to work my arss off http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Cheers mate, watch this space http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

- Dave.

PS: this was a response from another thread though i didn't want to spam his with my project so i've replied back here (if that makes any sense)

His original feedback was as follow:

A couple quick comments:

-I agree it's lacking a strong focal point...
-Maybe hide the car and flag for now and focus on the framing of the building
-Try and reframe the building. Maybe more centered, let's see more of the left side.Maybe we should see 10 to 15 feet on either side of this building for a nice establishing shot framing?
-Make the camera move side to side, remove the push-in part (I think simpler is better)
-Usually when it snows the sky is lower contrast than what you have here and also there tends to be more atmosphere and ambient light all over
-Try flash the blacks on the building and lessen the bright light on the ground snow
-Later if you add the car back in, scale it down a bit, typically these windows on architecture like this are very large and I think the car (and flag) is throwing the scale off

-Try to make the snowflakes less round and more chaotic in shape (maybe a bitsmaller too)
-Overall, the camera mapping is working pretty well, I think it's mainly the painting that needs to look more real. There could be more parallax in the top left parts of the walls, but I've seen shots cheated like you have here and the audience believes it's 3D because the overall amount of parallax is dominant.

Keep workin hard.



Cheers again Mate, really appreciate your guidence.


See Chris Stoski new DVDs at:
http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/comingsoon.html




-

Koba
08-27-2006, 02:25 AM
The chimneys seem to be untouched. I may be wrong, but it looks that way to me.

davidave
09-04-2006, 03:04 AM
Everlite:

Please help me to get this right.... For the Camera Projection Mapping, you used 3D software to do this, right? From your castle house work, I see the whole house (or I should say the cam) turning, which means you built the whole house and stuff in 3D shapes and then have the house textured by projecting your work on the 3D shapes? Since you started with a still image, so I am amazed by the result you transform it into 3D environment. Great work!! :applause: Sorry for my naive question....and really thanks in advanced.

everlite
09-05-2006, 12:04 AM
3ds max camera mapping projection tutorial - kind of ?! (fill me in where i go wrong :-)

Hey mate, no problem, i'm no expert but i'll try and explain in the best i can. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.

Its worth noting first of all that i began with a photo that i wanted to use as a camera projection test, this is the only approach and use for this technique. Sometime it may be the other way around, in which you begin with a 3d scene that needs polishing up with a little paint here and there adding things such as snow, cobwebs, and other small details that might be required.

1.

From my approach i took the image into 3ds max, set up the image as a background and adjusted the render settings to match. I then went in and built the very basic shape of the house from boxes, keeping it really simple, trying to match the image as best i could.

2.

Once the geometry is buit, and note it doesn't have to be too complex, just take into account any edges that stick out of your building from the sides will need adding, like in the shot above, i had to model the rim around the right wall so it wouldn't appear flat when rendered...

3.

Using your perspective view, match up the view to the perspective of the scene, change the angle etc until or the lines of the geometry match the lines in the line, ie wall edges, windows, doors etc ...

4.

Next hit Ctrl and C to create a camera from the persepctive viewport, you now have one camera.

You also need a second camera, select the camera you've just made then clone it, without moving it, exactly in the same spot.

The first will only be used to project the image, don't worry about how or why, it just does :-) come to this a little later. You could name this camera 'Projection camera'.

The second camera is the one you animate, move around, push in or whatever you choose, sliding the camera from left to right or right to left has the best effect. You could call this camera, 'Animation camera'.

5.

Change the view to one of the camera if your not already in the camera view.

Now go to your materials and first wack up the self-illumination to 100% (note doing this can cause problems later on if you have other objects casting shadows etc)
Then click the little grey button next to the diffuse colour swatch, now select and click 'Camera map per pixel'.

6.

From here you are presented with four buttons, from top to bottom:

Camera

Texture

zbuffer mask

mask

As i write i've yet to understand the bottom two and how to use them so for now, to create the effect i did just concentrate on the top two, camera and texture.

7.

For the next part you'll need to select the camera, so go into a perspective view or click the select by name button on the top tool bar of max, (just beneath where it says character)

Back to the material - click the camera button and select the Camera projector (remember, you created two cameras earlier, one called projector?) ... done.

8.

Now click texture and select the image that you've been using as a background, by whatever means, directly from where the file is located (clicking bitmap) or click scene and select the image, just get the image into this slot. So thats now done.

Next select all the objects in the scene (Ctrl + A) and apply the material you've just created to the objects in the scene.

Still in camera view? On my machine all the textures look stretched to hell - but it still works.

9.

Now close the materials and animate your camera, slide to the left or right for best effect, not too much, similar to what i did above maybe.

10.

Hit render scene, set up the render options and hit render!

So in a nut shell that's it. I just know i 've forgotten something along the way, so please forgive me if this doesn't work the first time. Just repost and i'll see what i can do.

You'll most likely come up with a few problems like map stretching the map appearing over undesired objects etc, but don't give up, i didn't know what camera mapping was prior to setting up this thread, so i think came quite a long way in doing what i did over the week or so it took me to figure it out.

I also added various effects in after effects, the car was later added as was the mist and snow, all rendered sperately and recomposed in after effects.

There's a few good camera mapping tutorials out there for anyone looking to learn more.

Discreet also posted a demo video to show of the camera per pixel features over at there site when max 7 was released, i saw it a few days ago but there's not direct link on there website, so ask around and someone will know.

Another really cool tutorial is out there for cinema 4d, the basic principles apply to max and this helped my in understanding the technqiues.

There's also one over at CGarchitects.

Maybe someone might be kind enough to post these links, there's about 4-5 video tutorials out there.

Hope that helps in some way, once again, please remember i'm very new to this technique myself so what i wrote above might be incorrect and given its very late at night and i'm very tired i may have missed a step or two, pleas forgive me if ths is the case.

Cheers - Dave.

everlite
09-05-2006, 12:07 AM
Sorry to answer your question, yes your pretty much right. Though the geometry can very very low poly, just enough to get away with the basic shapes.

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