premiere or after effects?

[stevester1]

AE.

after fx is the 2d/3d compositor, premiere is the NLE

[[.Q.]]

if you want to NLE

cut that is... dont use premiere..it's a toilet of a program

[JohnnyRandom]

AE for compositing - assembly and manipulation of elements in time and space

Premiere for editing - assembly of elements in time


']if you want to NLE

cut that is... dont use premiere..it's a toilet of a program

Curious...why do you say this?

[[.Q.]]

well i worked alot with premiere... and i dont need a program where i have raw footage and then i just place cuts, a fade2black and thats it. it's fine for channel 5 news report where they just raw cut from 1 scene to another... thats it

- a glow was too much to ask.. a simple glow as AE has it.. it has alpha glow which looks like a baboons ass
- i noticed i need a program that can create a masks using the freaggin pentool... and have a feather option
- i need transfer modes... as an effect where i can say .. use layer 3 and layer 4 an apply an overlay
- i need some more automatics.. like have the most simple option to scale 3 cuts @ once... simeple as that... or delete an effect on more than 1 slice at a time
- a mute button when capturing... was to much to ask.. i have to listen to the whole god damn tape.
- they didnt tink that when having over 1000 cuts you star getting annoyed by the fact that you have to twirl open the motion menu every god damn time...

the list is endless... i went to the SAE institute in Munich.. and there we had 3 hours of premiere.. at the end.. the guy sayd:

"ok you know premiere now... never use it again"

now i knew why...

[scrimski]

']
- a glow was too much to ask.. a simple glow as AE has it.. it has alpha glow which looks like a baboons ass
- i noticed i need a program that can create a masks using the freaggin pentool... and have a feather option
- i need transfer modes... as an effect where i can say .. use layer 3 and layer 4 an apply an overlay

Sounds like you are in need of a compostiting app, not NLE.

I edit a lot and I almost NEVER use any other transition than a hard cut. All that FX stuff is better done in AE, because it is made for that. And the other way around: Sure it is possible to edit in AE buit it is a real p.i.t.a. and I personally would prefer Premiere on this(though I didn't touched it for several years, Avid and FCP all the time).

[[.Q.]]

not to mention the fact you dont have an easy way to jump between apps like PS and imageready

it`s retarded.. i mean i wished for a right click on a cut ...edit in AE.. the program compresses the file in a native format... sends it to AE.. where i do my magic.. then export it back with ALL the effects allready rendered in thaat cut...

but nooo.. you need to do 20 steps before you can get your footage to AE..

i know i might ask a bit much with some of my requests.. but i wish they dont integrate half a feature .. better let it out.. like that mask option where you can load a PS mask or the glow that they created when they where high.. :D

[JohnnyRandom]

@ [.Q.]

I certainly agree with you on the mute button.

as for the rest interesting requests. but I ask becuase for what it is it does a good job (not a great job but a good job) which is about all you can expect out of a software solution.

masking, large images, effects WILL and DO bog down any software based NLE. The only way your going to get away from that is a dedicated hardware solution, or well a Boxx Apexx 16 workstation:D

More integration would be nice but tell me of any other application set that even has the interoperability that adobe does (don't get me wrong I swear at adobe all the time) but workflow is decent enough to save you time, it could always be better.

As for the right-click render&send to AE that is a great idea. You can tho double-click a cut and render out the source window (crtl+M) but the link/unlink feature does seriously lack any kind of intuitiveness. I am quite fond of AE's "Reload Footage" feature...

[mackdadd]

i used to edit in premiere, now i just do it all in AE. i use AE all the time anyway cuz my short movies are effects heavy, and once you learn the keyboard shortcuts for moving layers in the timeline and for trimming and setting in/out points, it can be just as fast. i would use premiere on a movie that had absolutely no effects, only transitions. i don't even like the way text overlays look in premiere.

as for the mute button, just turn your speakers off. i do. :thumbsup:

[[.Q.]]

hehe mackdadd.. good point...
the problem with editing in AE is the project tends to get heavy very fast and the performance is sluggish...

as for the mute button.. i want to listen to music while capturing...
:)

[dkohler]

AE - Video Compositing, Premiere - Sound Embedding.


My workflow basically is as follows:

I'll create the scene in my 3d app (Cinema 4d is my fav), render out all layers as png sequences.

Import, Composite everything in AE, Render out a movie file.

Import that movie file into Premiere, and add sound FX.


AE doesn't have near the sound editing tools that Premiere does, not to mention that it can only handle a single audio track per composition. On the same token, Premiere doesn't have near the power for editing different elements in time/space as AE does. Using both I find is very seamless, and stressless.

[eodmpink]

']not to mention the fact you dont have an easy way to jump between apps like PS and imageready

it`s retarded.. i mean i wished for a right click on a cut ...edit in AE.. the program compresses the file in a native format... sends it to AE.. where i do my magic.. then export it back with ALL the effects allready rendered in thaat cut...

but nooo.. you need to do 20 steps before you can get your footage to AE..



Doesn't dynamic link address this problem?

[[.Q.]]

eodmpink (member.php?u=214388)
i didnt see your post... what do you mean by this dynamic link library thingy

... and i doubt it addresses my problem.. For example if you edit a premiere proj in AE and apply a rudimentary glow effect and then try to open the premiere proj in premiere...it will whine about not knowing what glow is...

dkohler (member.php?u=234146)

thats the normal workflow of anyone who whants to compose 3d footage..

i mean no one asks to compose in premiere ....

i just ment the basic things could have been implemented..

we were talking about normal dv/hd footage

[mackdadd]

not to mention that it can only handle a single audio track per composition

i've edited many, many audio layers together in AE. i haven't done any audio filter processing, but just overlapping, in & out points, fades, and animated volumes. works fine for me. i use an audio editor to create different tracks - sound fx, music, clean dialogue, etc... then just layer them in AE like any other footage.

but other than that, dkohler, i totally agree with your workflow. i've just stopped using premiere though once i get into AE, though, because i hate having to render movies just to re-edit. i just re-edit in AE. but premiere is ok for sound.

[duffbeer911]

If Premiere could handle all the things that AE can....then why would we have AE? Premiere is not made to do glows/composites/all the things AE does....that's why you render it back down to then edit in an NLE. And neither AE or PP are audio apps, that;s what audition is for. I'm sure Adobe could combine them all into one super application....but that wouldn't make much business sense. I'm not sure of any video packages in the same price range as the Adobe suite that do all the things you request

[shadowedge]

In our studio, we use both:

AE for compositing and mixing all the 3d / fx etc.. (by scene), the we'd render it out into one long jpeg or TGA seq

then we use Premier to edit it with the scoring and audio.

IMO these two apps should complement each other as two tools that have 2 different uses.

Although have been apps that have both in one right? (FCP? Avid Express?)

[Hexster]

AE - Video Compositing, Premiere - Sound Embedding.
My workflow basically is as follows:

I'll create the scene in my 3d app (Cinema 4d is my fav), render out all layers as png sequences.

Import, Composite everything in AE, Render out a movie file.

Import that movie file into Premiere, and add sound FX.


Note to your step 2:
Don't render out from AE. Just import your AE project into Premiere and your done. This is what dynamic link is all about.
Premiere will do the rendering for you when you render or play the movie.
If you later want to change the composition just right click the AE clip in the timeline and choose "Edit original" and AE opens. Do your changes, save and quit.

// Hexster

[shadowedge]

Don't render out from AE. Just import your AE project into Premiere and your done. This is what dynamic link is all about.


really? wow...In the past we did it the other way around, premier into AE (i think) but that was one occasion.

but wont putting the AE file slowdown playback? I mean with all the effets unrendered n'all?

:)

[Hexster]

It seems like Premiere make prerenders for the clips.
I have not tried any heavy stuff yet. But for what I have done I have not noticed anything slowing down except for first time you look at the clip.

// Hexster

[stevester1]

1) Can't you just copy paste the glow plugin from your AE repetoire to your PPro folder? (I've done it with other plugins... I just mentioned glow because there was alot of fuss about it)

2) Premiere isn't a bad application, so I have to dissagree with you there, and like some dude said, if it handdled all the blending and effects that AE does, what would be the point of having 2 apps.

3) Only thing I hate about premiere... well there's obviously a few things I hate, cmon now, what's perfect in life, but yeah the one thing I hate is the fact that it eats up ram...alot of it.

4) I use vegas alot more than premiere, I find it easier to run when I want to switch back from let's say Photoshop to vegas. Except IMHO, the vegas renderrer sucks so I usualy render uncompressed and do a final render with premiere. Anyways my 2 cents. So maybe you should check sony vegas out, it's highly underestimated in my opinion.

[[.Q.]]

ok...premiere is all about negative things..:

1. you sayd import proj from one app into another.. ok if i would import a AE proj into premiere... it would not make much sense.. since premiere cand do network render.. (why would it.. it would be to "complete")
and if you import a premiere proj into AE to add a glow effect you cant use it back in premiere since premiere is to dumb to inderstand the glow effect.

2. i didnt say make premiere a compositing prog.. i sayd i would like a pent tool to do masks.. and yes since it has alot of plugins.. i would like a simple glow.. they threw in a blurr why not a glow

3. premiere is way uncomplete.. it`s only good for small companys which need a program that can be learned quickly and do simple edits.

4. and i would totally agree as i sayd.. with e sistem in which you just right click .. EDIT IN AE. The prog renders the sequence in its OWN file format and sends you to AE.. then after you are finished.. it re-renders that clip not loosing any quality and puts it back in premiere...
but i guess that would be to much to ask

[Hexster]

']
1. you sayd import proj from one app into another.. ok if i would import a AE proj into premiere... it would not make much sense.. since premiere cand do network render.. (why would it.. it would be to "complete")
and if you import a premiere proj into AE to add a glow effect you cant use it back in premiere since premiere is to dumb to inderstand the glow effect.
According to Adobe all the programs in Production Studio share the same render engine.

']
4. and i would totally agree as i sayd.. with e sistem in which you just right click .. EDIT IN AE. The prog renders the sequence in its OWN file format and sends you to AE.. then after you are finished.. it re-renders that clip not loosing any quality and puts it back in premiere...
but i guess that would be to much to ask
Well its almost what it done. You import the AE project. Premiere plays the clip in normal speed if it can, otherwise it skips frames. In Premiere you can Render the work area if you want every frame in playback just as you would with a heavy Premiere clip with a lot of effects. When you render the timeline it will render your AE clip just like any other clip.

I really like Dynamic link, it is a good timesaver. It makes the programs flow together like they are two functions within the same application.

// Hexster

[[.Q.]]

1. i havent tested out the production bundle of adobe.. i used the normal import.. maybe the dynamic link can import the "glow" effect aswell.

2. "According to Adobe all the programs in Production Studio share the same render engine."

well they must have been high ... cuz i cant find wathc folder or network render in premiere
maybe its a external app in production studio?

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