Need Help Texturing Buildings

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

Firstly, I dont do games so I can't help you that much, but thought I'd lend you my brains for a moment anyway.
I think that games require tileable textures, so make use (in Photoshop) of the offset filter and look into using the High Pass Filter (I think thats the one). The high pass removes low frequency noise which is of great use with repeating textures. The human brain can spot a repeating pattern very eaisily. Don't over do the high pass though, or you'll remove all detail, but just use it and you'll see what I mean.
Oh and obviously look into UV mapping. I'm not sure if you're aware of it as you didnt mention it, but to be honest, if you're doing games, you should be :)

[leavethetvon]

By tilable, do you mean, I shouldn't create texture maps? I have been uv mapping each building and then using a uv snapshot to create a texture map. That's how I texture characters, but like I said, I've never worked with games before so things are probably different.

Thanks

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

By tileable, I mean textures where you cannot recognise the seams. If you got a picture and planar projected it onto a surface, you will see the seams when the texture repeats itself. You can use the photoshop offset filter to remove those seams.

UV mapping is fine, but like you said, you want it to look good close up. That's where tileable textures come into play. If you UV map something to very high detail, the texture map will be very large in size. Something that is not good for games. Tileable textures allow you to create a small detailed section of a brick wall for example, and have that repeat over the surface. Therefore, it will be a small image size as you've only created a small portion of the total surface of the wall, but you can texture the whole thing with it, because it just repeats over and over.

[leavethetvon]

how would i apply a tilable texture? i mean like do you still need to uv map the building or do you apply per face or....

what if you end up needing like ten 512x512 tilable textures? is that better than having one 1024x1024 texture map?

thx

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

tileable = seamless.
you only need one texture because you cannot notice the seams. The texture just repeats, hence it being good for conserving memory. Do a google for tileable or seamless textures. There's tons of tutorials on how to make them. I'm a Lightwave user and there are several non-UV mapping options. Planar, cylindrical, sphereical, etc. Just choose the most appropriate one and set the texture image to repeat and you're away :)

[Ghostscape]

If you are creating buildings that you will be getting close to, DO NOT unwrap the buildings and paint a texture, instead use multiple tiling textures across the different surfaces.

If you are making buildings that will only be seen from far away you can get away with unwrapping them and texturing them like you would a character or a prop.

[leavethetvon]

i understand what you guys mean by tilable, but here are my questions:
1) what if one side of a building has no clear repeating pattern? do i create a texture for that whole face?
2) what about if the upper floors of a side of a building have a repeating pattern (say, just a bunch of windows), and the bottom floors have no pattern (like a bunch of different storefronts)? can i use a tilable texture for the top part and somthing else for the bottom when both are contained within a single face or would i have to add geometry first?
3) i'm still not clear on how to apply tiling textures. do i just select a face and apply the texture to that face and then set its placement and how many times it repeats? if that's the case, there seems to be a couple of problems:
a) the first problem relates to problems # 1 and 2 above.
b) the second is best defined through an example: i have a building that is crumbling and broken down. that building has more faces than a typical external-only building and many of these faces are uneven and are of different sizes and different angles. what would i do in this case?

sorry for all the questions. i appreciate the help.

thx again

[leavethetvon]

i think i figured out a fairly effective way of applying tilable textures:

i created a few textures for my rundown building - one that is just old bricks and two variations of brick with some decaying paint still covering some of it. for some surfaces, like a flat wall, i can apply one texture accross several faces and just use a single planar projection, scaling the projection as needed. for areas where the faces are all angled differently, i used several projections to eliminate stretching. each texture is no bigger than 512x512 and looks okay close up. is this the correct method?

[leavethetvon]

okay, so the attached image is an example of the issue i mentioned before: the texture is a wip, so don't worry about critiqueing it, i just wanted to show how i have a building with a side that is pretty much all one face and there is no real pattern to how i want that face to look. so i can't use a repeating texture. therefore, i would need one texture for this entire face right? but if i do that, wouldn't that texture have to be at least like 2000 pixels across so that i could get up close to the door and not have it look too blurry?

[Anti-Distinctlyminty]

Hmmm, a tricky one. Again, having no experience with games I'm not aware if there is a way around the texture size issue. For the time being, just make the texture that size (2000 wide or whatever) and get the detail in there that you need.

And to attempt to answer those questions you posed, please bear in mind that all my answeres will be cg imagery related, which may not, and in many cases probably isn't, the correct way to go for games:


1) what if one side of a building has no clear repeating pattern? do i create a texture for that whole face?
Yes I would, as I cant really see any other way of doing it. Unless you have a repeating pattern and just use small positioned images with alpha maps to get some grime & damage onto the surface to break up the reapeating pattern.

2) what about if the upper floors of a side of a building have a repeating pattern (say, just a bunch of windows), and the bottom floors have no pattern (like a bunch of different storefronts)? can i use a tilable texture for the top part and somthing else for the bottom when both are contained within a single face or would i have to add geometry first?

If you tell the texture to repeat horizontally, but not vertically, you should be able to position the repeating texture on the upper floor and have a seperate image map for the lower floor.

3) i'm still not clear on how to apply tiling textures. do i just select a face and apply the texture to that face and then set its placement and how many times it repeats? if that's the case, there seems to be a couple of problems:
a) the first problem relates to problems # 1 and 2 above.

I have no idea how to apply textures in whatever software you're using, as I have no idea what software you're using. And as I'm only familiar with lightwave, that's all I know. In LW you apply a texture to a surface, with a particular projection on a particular axis. You can set it to repeat verically, horizontally, etc. Just read the manual for your software.

b) the second is best defined through an example: i have a building that is crumbling and broken down. that building has more faces than a typical external-only building and many of these faces are uneven and are of different sizes and different angles. what would i do in this case?

In the example image you have shown, looks like you have to create an image to project onto the y-axis for those crumbled bits (in which case they're have to be a different material/surface). Or you can UV unwrap them.

In spite of what I've said above, generally for games you need to UV map I think. I'm not sure of the format that is best for games, but I use png fot alot of my stuff, tga if I need an embedded alpha, or jpg if I can get away with it.

Furthermore, I think you need to not worry about the game texturing for a bit and just get used to texturing and the different approaches one can take to texture an object. I think you have to be pretty familiar with that first before you attempt more complex things. i.e. look up all the stuff about regular texture mapping in your manual, then move on to UV mapping. Do some research into texturing for games too. Then you should be in a much better position to tackle this kind of thing.

[leavethetvon]

i know the techniques really. i just don't know WHICH techniques to use for GAME textures, specifically. i don't think i made that clear. just take all of my questions and tack "for games" at the end of them, and you'll be able to understand where i'm coming from. i realize that you don't have much xp with games, anti, so i don't expect you to have all these answers. i do really appreciate you tackling my questions though. i'm using maya btw.
i am curently researching game development on my own. however, since there is a deadline coming up, i have to split my time between researching proper techniques and just doing the work and hoping it will be valuable in the end so i had just hoped that this might be quicker and more efficient if i could find someone who is knowledgable about texturing for games and who would be willing to have an on-going dialogue with me on the subject. thanks for the feedback. i'll still be referring back to this thread so if anyone has any tips, feel free to send em my way.

[softdistortion]

you will get more game specific input here> http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=39

From what you are showing you would probably be best treating the buildings with this kind of distress and damage texture the same as any game prop and Create UV and texture sheets for each one independantly. You also need to know what engine you are going to deliver for and what it's specs and limits are. :thumbsup:

[leavethetvon]

thanks for the info :)

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