Is new Mac Pro a viable PC alternative?

[Per-Anders]

The Mac is just a PC, that also runs OSX, via bootcamp you can run XP. I don't know where you got the idea that Mac keyboards don't have delete keys from, that's one of the more barmy things I've heard, of course they have delete keys, but apples own keyboard layout is slightly different to a standard pc's layout, but you can use mac & pc keyboards interchangeably, you just have to get used to the ctrl/alt/apple key switch that happens. Same for mice it's just a standard pc so it just takes standard mice.

With regards the keynote, Bootcamp isn't a sore note as far as i'm aware, but Steve was just rushing through stuff at the point where he was going on about Bootcamp, he really didn't say anything apart from it'll be finished, whereas I think people were hoping to hear stuff like "bootcamp will allow fast switching" because right now you have to restart each time you want to switch between os.

[plotz]

I don't think you'll have an issue with the keyboard remapping in OSX.

I've got a PC and a Mac running off of the same Apple USB keyboard (through a Dr. Bott switchbox) and the delete key works the way it shoud in Windows and on the Mac without any keyboard remapping.

[seco7]

I've been wondering the exact same thing except I'd like to word it a little differently. Is boot camp something you can use flawlessly everyday? I haven't used it and a quick search in google turned up some mixed reviews. Does anyone have any experience running serious windows applications on a dual boot system?

[Knotian]

I'm facing the same decision in a couple of months. I'm wondering why the Mac is staying with the slower (3G) chip vs the 3.73G that is available.

[JensDa]

I'm facing the same decision in a couple of months. I'm wondering why the Mac is staying with the slower (3G) chip vs the 3.73G that is available.

The 3.73GHz chip is outdated. The fastest Woodcrest-Xeon (new technology) is running at 3GHz.

Jens

[lllab]

"I'm facing the same decision in a couple of months. I'm wondering why the Mac is staying with the slower (3G) chip vs the 3.73G that is available."

hmm sorry but apple uses the new intel woodcrest architecture, the 3gig chips are almost 200% faster than the very unefficient p4 derivates like the one you stated(3.7-3.8ghz.)

in pcs world these chips are shipping earliest in about 3 weeks, apple with its new close relation to intel ships in 3-5 days...;-)

in fact, apple ships the fastest PCs you can buy to a very attractive price(maybe box offers a 8cpu config i know-but with horrible price).

cheers
stefan

(ps. and no i am no apple user- yet;-)

...edit ups to slow,jens said it already,...sorry

[Erik Heyninck]

Never in my life I've been tempted like this. To be honest: I never cared about that so-called "war" between both. But I always loved mac's interior construction.
Tje only thing that makes me hesitate are those silly European prices. Vat: ok, that's legal. But apart from that: we're not all millionaires, are we?
But if I can run all my PC apps on it...even if it's only Cinema, then it is very tempting. Very tempting. The other soft can stay on my PIV...

Yet: perhaps it's better to wait for the second generation.

[Erik Heyninck]

An extra question as I know as good as nothing about this:

Can you install extra memory, HDD's etc yourself? They're extremely expensive at Apple's. Are these the same you get in any pc store?

A 3GHs comes at 3250Euro, with NVIDIA 7300, 1gig of ram and 1 160GB HDD. VAT included.
So if I can install RAM myself...and perhaps get a lower price...

[MJV]

I don't think you'll get much in the way of support for Windows on Mac. The nice thing about buying a Dell is you have a problem you call up and you get it fixed pronto. Who are you going to call if you have a problem with Windows on your Mac?

[ooo]

An extra question as I know as good as nothing about this:

Can you install extra memory, HDD's etc yourself? They're extremely expensive at Apple's. Are these the same you get in any pc store?

A 3GHs comes at 3250Euro, with NVIDIA 7300, 1gig of ram and 1 160GB HDD. VAT included.
So if I can install RAM myself...and perhaps get a lower price...

Yes you can! Read this notes about the Mac Pro: http://www.hardmac.com/news/2006-08-08/#5820

odo

[NWoolridge]

I don't know where you got the idea that Mac keyboards don't have delete keys from, that's one of the more barmy things I've heard, of course they have delete keys...

He may be referring to the lack of forward-delete on the mac, or at least on powerbook keyboards (where you can use Fn-delete as forward delete). On regular mac keyboards there is indeed a forward-delete key...

Nick

[brammelo]

I don't think you'll get much in the way of support for Windows on Mac. The nice thing about buying a Dell is you have a problem you call up and you get it fixed pronto. Who are you going to call if you have a problem with Windows on your Mac?

Lucky you then. My experience with the unreliable built quality of my DELL laptops combined with the lousy support they have given me is why I'm switching back to Mac. I wouldn't go back to Mac though without Bootcamp.

[Erik Heyninck]

Most Windows users need no support. We're used to choose each and every item ourselves and install everything, from CPU and cooler up to tweaking XP.

I only start thinking about upgrading when things double. And now they do. And for the price, even here in Europe, of that mac pro, I cannot buy the separate parts and assemble it myself. Which is why it is so tempting. And which is also why I immediately want to know whether I can install pc components on it.

[cmyk]

There are great alternatives for Boot Camp, now. Parallels is getting a lot of buzz as of late... which allows you to run Windows at the same time as OSX, even in a little window. The catch is, at this moment, that 3D acceleration isn't supported YET. But the makers of Parallels just announced that it's coming in the next version. It's a great time to be a mac user. Can't wait to trade my G5 in for a Quad Xeon MacPro!

[zzmadd]

Hi there ..
I am a mac user.
I was waiting for this release.
I've been working these months on a mac mini.
I've used bootcamb a few times to test it. I didn't really need to use windows.
I need windows for HDRshop. That's it.
The problems in bootcamp beta are drivers related. You don't have all the drivers for the apple proprietary "tools" that are so reliable. But it is a matter of bluetooth, and iSight ....
I've been, as a test, updating the video driver, downloading from intel the standard win xp video driver. It installed and worked properly.
Some of the drivers didn;t install properly, but this happened to me when I had a little, but new pc, 1 year ago. It is just that in windows a lot of things are NOT polished, and that's the way it is.
Though XP 64 doen't have support today, and It's not clear about bootcamp in leopart (XP64, Vista).

In parallels things are very fast, almost as fast as xp in bootcamp for the cpu. It is suitable for rendering or even for photoshop, since now on the mac CS2 is not universal.
3D is not yet supported, but parallels announced they will. How reliable? I dunno. Though you need loads of RAM. And it is expensive that type of ram.
OSX to work good with 3D, CS2, post ... start at 4 .. better at 8. If you want windows going .. add a couple more ... or at least 1 more ...

Also you can run some win app as if they were osx app, with no emulation or reboot. This is the case of HDRshop .. just install darwine and u click on HDRshop and it starts.

Some other things will come in the future too. VMWare is working on something too.

Altogether, plenty of possibilities.

As for HD, Ram, Burners you can put even anything ...
As for Video card NO. They said MacPro has special video cards with a firmware that supports EFI (is that the name?) anyway MacPros don;t have the "BIOS" .. luckily ... I hate bioses ...

There will be several expansion PCIe cards soon .. but .. ti seems as for the hard disks there are 4+2 other interfaces on the motherboard (SATA II 3Gb/s), plus someone will do something to use the space for the second DVD adn its controller ..
that's it for now ..

Just keep an eye on www.anandtech.com they will cover many many in depth reviewes and considerations (already one today). For example will it be just possible to drop the new intel cleverton processors (4 cores each, same pins, 771) when they'll be available in dic ?

see you ..

[mistafreeze]

get the macPro. it makes since. you can run windows, and use your utils their, and maybe get used to using the mac while your at it, then you can buy final cut studio and shake, and have some fun. the price is dirt cheap.

yes you can upgrade the ram yourself, and harddrives as it uses standard SATA
here are some links. buy 4 sticks of ram, but 2 on the top slot, and 2 on the bottom to enable quad support (for the ram opposed to dual) adding more than 4 slots will increase latency, and having less than 4 is inefficent. either go 4x512 or 4x1gb (4x2gb is super expensive). I would just get the standard 250gb from apple, and buy 2 500gb's from newegg for raid, and use the other 250 (from apple) for time machine (in leopard) or to store misc files.

ram
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134085

HD
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=101258

these are the cheapest current prices available, and all reported to work with the macPro.

[mogh]

I'll only tell what i got into myself on my iMac Core Duo. (I'm a Windows User)

Bootcamp / XP

- Some drivers are still missing (Bluetooth, not so imortant ....)
- the 1.0 Bootcamp had an keyboard mouse bug (got into sleep mode, had to unplug and plug it to wake up) i thinik 1.1 fixed this
- restarting with the X key holding from windows wont work (X should start OSX)
- Booting Windows takes slightly longer than on a normal station (might be the missing drivers)
- Cinebenchspeed is about 20 points below OSX (ok i think)
- Running Games wors fine (Titan Quest) but slow even its a 1600 ATI card
- CAD Software Solidworks 2006 rund fluently :applause:

OSX Issue (Mac fanatics please stop reading here)

- Mouse is hell speedlaggy (accelarates at the false point i and is slow at normal movment), iMousefix lets tweak this a litle but didnt got the direkt feeling from Windows XP
- Scrollwheel accerlaration can't be turned of (rol the whel slow = 1-2 rows a segment, rol the wheel fast = hole site .... till bottom ) this is aceptable for Web an daily use but imagine Adobe indesign Scrolling a 200 Pages file acidently to the bottom ...
- OSX Dock is nice but in Cinema it limmits the space because you have to be carefull not to hit the bootoom screen (Dock hided) .. but even thou its not that problem ....
- the reverse delet button only works if the application uses it, and its not same use sometimes ... delete a file in OSX is (command + delete) not reverse delete like in windows
- File Browsing is a bit mindpuzzling in the colum view

:sad: IMPORTANT: Don't get yourself an Intel Mac if you have to work with Adobe Software - its hell slow through Rosetta, imagine i Copied and saved an TIF image in PS CS2 and it took me about 45 secs .... ist halfe the speed of an OLD G5 2 GHZ in Adobe Software

So don't flame this thread. It's my subjective opinion ... but perhapes someone can relate and learn ...
cya

[Erik Heyninck]

Thanks, Mogh, much appreciated! My idea: Photoshop does not really need a macpro. If you have a windows license, then keep on using it on your pc. The main reason to get one would be Cinema, or other apps that need lots of calculation. Yet, if we talk 4500Euro without a monitor (1HDD of 160GB and 4GBRam), it might be a good idea to ask Maxon what it costs to switch platforms.

[Mike Abbott]

Well, I'm another one in the market for a new (Windows) box - and I'll have to make a move in the comming week.

I've priced up a couple of dual Xeon 5160 machines here in the UK (Xworks, Armari) and they're both considerably more expensive than a reasonably equivalent MacPro, and the option of having OSX available is tempting.

Is there anyone else running one as a Windows box that can give another realworld report?


Mike

[lllab]

i run it with winxp. so far verything very smooth and fast...

cheers
stefan

[Mike Abbott]

There's always a gotcha...

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=223679

From what I read, the hard discs in the Mac pro are running under PIO mode, rather than UDMA. This means slow disc access.

I was about to get a Mac Pro for Windows usage, so this is a real downer.

When it will be fixed (presuming it can be fixed) is anyone's guess...

IIIab, any thoughts on this?


Mike A.

[acmepixel]

I've been buying Apples since 1985. My personal Golden Rule; Never buy a Revision-A Motherboard. (unless you like being a Pioneer, you know, the guy with all the arrows in his back).

FWIW

[Mike Abbott]

Doug,
We go back about the same sort of time (ever tried to layout a newspaper sized design on a 9" B+W screen?.. LOL!) - and I generally have the same sort of approach.

...but temptation got the better of me this time.

Looks like the MacPro will be heading back to the shop I'm afraid....

Mike

[AdamT]

Ah, that's a bit of a drag but I'm sure it'll be fixed when Apple releases Leopard if not sooner. Just needs mobo drivers for windows. In the meantime, according to the quoted thread, you can run Windows fine on an ATA 133 HD. I'm sure I've got one lieing around here somewhere. :) Otherwise you can pick them up pretty cheap.

[lllab]

" I was about to get a Mac Pro for Windows usage, so this is a real downer"

...i run my mac pro fully under winxp, i feel no slowdowns at all. in no app.
it is definitly my fastest winxp machine i ever had- and i own a quad opteron275- it is remarkably slower.
i have booted it a few times under osx, but i have heavy work to to and i use it mainly under winxp now.

no problems,
no speeddowns
i installed extra fb dimms from a pc shop, they also work perfect here

win xp boots in about 30 seconds(estimated)

cheers
Stefan

[Mike Abbott]

Thanks Stefan,
That's good news - but leaves me confused as to what is really going on.

Could you try this: Create a reasonably large Photoshop file (say 200 MB) and save it to the factory fitted internal drive.

Re-boot the machine, and open the file in Photoshop. How long does it take the file to fully open?

Thanks,

Mike

[acmepixel]

Doug,
We go back about the same sort of time (ever tried to layout a newspaper sized design on a 9" B+W screen?.. LOL!) - and I generally have the same sort of approach.

...but temptation got the better of me this time.

Looks like the MacPro will be heading back to the shop I'm afraid....

Mike

I was actually planning to buy a Lisa. (wow, I'm older than dirt). :0

Ah, the days of getting color out of Adobe illustrator on a 9'' b/w...
I've got a garage that's become an Apple Museum. I plan to fire-em up some day and finish playing some old video games. Anybody wanna great deal on a bunch of 400k floppies? Heh.

Back to the shop? Ouch! (I can see the arrow wounds on yer back).

So, Mike, are you still using Form-Z? I dumped it the minute I got my hands on C4D v6. (FormZ kept giving me a brain-cramp). ;-)

[lllab]

i have no psd installed on this machine, sorry , this is on another pc.

i have very much work with an animation and soon deadline. i will try to test something with a big file. i can just confirm, that under normal c4d & FR work this machine is the fastest thing i can imagine...

i read the link. so i fear there might be still a beta-thingy with bootcamp. maybe it is true, but i think one doesnt feel it, at least not for 3d work.

also there will be parallels soon for macpro, this might solve photoshop slowness.

cheers
Stefan

[GruvDOne]

OSX Issue (Mac fanatics please stop reading here)

- Mouse is hell speedlaggy (accelarates at the false point i and is slow at normal movment), iMousefix lets tweak this a litle but didnt got the direkt feeling from Windows XP
- Scrollwheel accerlaration can't be turned of (rol the whel slow = 1-2 rows a segment, rol the wheel fast = hole site .... till bottom ) this is aceptable for Web an daily use but imagine Adobe indesign Scrolling a 200 Pages file acidently to the bottom ...
cya


Just a little puzzled by these couple of points... I have used OSX since it was first released on a bevy of assorted hardware and have never encountered these mouse issues of which you speak. Scroll-wheel functionality is great, and mouse pointer speed can be set in System Preferences, and works quite consistently at whatever the chosen speed.

I also want to address the statement about file browsing being difficult in Column view. It really isn't, but it serves as perfect example of how Windows folks have to Un-Learn at times, to adapt to things that simply make sense in OSX. Think of it this way.. you read from left to right.. be it a sign, a sentence or whatever. Column view is exactly that.. the "beginning" directory is at the far left, and you get to subsequent directories bay moving ever-right. It simple and is based on real-world logic.

Not an attempt to flame, just a view from the other end of the garden.

Cheers!

[Mike Abbott]

i have no psd installed on this machine, sorry , this is on another pc.
i have very much work with an animation and soon deadline. i will try to test something with a big file...

Stephan,
No problem - thanks for the response. I hope you get your animation done on time.

Mike

[Mike Abbott]

I was actually planning to buy a Lisa. (wow, I'm older than dirt). :0
.....
So, Mike, are you still using Form-Z? I dumped it the minute I got my hands on C4D v6. (FormZ kept giving me a brain-cramp). ;-)


Ah! you were ahead of your time... i was probably still hacking artboard around with razor blades and cow gum ;)


FormZ? only when I have to... ;)

[acmepixel]

Column view is exactly that.. the "beginning" directory is at the far left, and you get to subsequent directories bay moving ever-right. It simple and is based on real-world logic.

Whilst I'm still waxing nostalgic; This view was the standard file directory in the old X-Windows days of Unix. It became standard on NeXT Computers. OSX is an updated version of the NeXT OS. (Open Step Mach).

(There is no Apple Computer. It's actually NeXT Corp. in disguise). ;-)

It's nice that now WINtel folks can get their hands on some user friendly ''Big Iron''.

(saving my pennies for the MacPro Revision B. Heh.

[GruvDOne]

(There is no Apple Computer. It's actually NeXT Corp. in disguise). ;-)


Well, true.. but Steve Jobs founded both Apple and NeXT, so really that's just semantics.

;)

[mistafreeze]

hey Stefan,

what video card did you get on your mac pro? have you tried maya on it? either in windows or osx (i know its not intel compatible, but 7 runs fine for modeling work)? especially if you got the ATI card, I used to have major problems in windows using maya with ATI cards and have been using nvidia ever since.

About revision B, Im guessing the next version will be the octo machine, when the new quad core chips come out this holiday season, I heard they will run about 1k a pop, hopefully the mac pro's price will not exceed 3500 with stock options. Im wanting to get one then, hopefully they will have a HD-DVD drive option.

[lllab]

7300, and no i have no maya, sorry...

cheers
stefan

[acmepixel]

Well, true.. but Steve Jobs founded both Apple and NeXT, so really that's just semantics.

;)

I was just being silly. :) But in fact it actually is true. Jobs fired over half the Board, a lot of the programmers and designers, replacing them with his NeXT corp. people. Shut down Umax and PowerComputing and bought out PowerComputing's facilities and distribution network which became the new apple.com. All while being chairman of Pixar.

A true tale of the little fish swallowing the big fish. (Now let's see if he does it again with Disney. Heh.).

Or maybe it's a tale of a little fox and a big henhouse?

Sorry, getting WAY OT here.

[zzmadd]

just a follow up on GruvDOne about column view ..

Column view is by far the best of the best way to browse your hard drive .... .. all the rest is obsolete ... this is just to be balanced and not extreme :-) ...
mee too from puma .. 10.1 I've always used osx ..
sometimes being frustrated .. I had problems with g5. I had 3 G5 dual .. and suffered from interface freeze .. for 1.5 years .. no way ... no way in tiger, no way in panther .. working .. then interface freezing ... no matter the version of osx, of the g5, of the videoo card of whatever ..
those were the real problems with osx.
Ahh 1.5 years ago there was a thread of 1000 posts on apple web site, such thread was more than a year old! usually thread have 20/500 msgs. Interface freeze on G5 was a plague, but mouse scroll wheel, and others no ..... and column view simply put the day u get then you can't live without it ..

[PoorGuy]

Stefan


Do you have any overheating issues when using XP? I know it is an issue with the MacBook pro, so i'm just wondering if it is the same case with the MacPro?

[acmepixel]

What about Virtual PC on the new box? If Msoft hasn't killed it, I'd like to know if it runs fast enough to actually be useful. Say, for instance, running Rhino, or XSI.

But I'm most interested in running XPpro on a Dual boot config. Like Mistafreeze, I'm looking forward to the next offering, with the hope that, by then, the kinks will be worked out.

I'm also curious to see how pc video games perform with the new mac video card offerings.

[GruvDOne]

What about Virtual PC on the new box? If Msoft hasn't killed it, I'd like to know if it runs fast enough to actually be useful. Say, for instance, running Rhino, or XSI.

But I'm most interested in running XPpro on a Dual boot config. Like Mistafreeze, I'm looking forward to the next offering, with the hope that, by then, the kinks will be worked out.

I'm also curious to see how pc video games perform with the new mac video card offerings.


Virtual PC was in fact recently killed off by Microsoft, but no matter, it was pointless. VPC relied on Processor emulation, effectively tricking Windows into thinking the Mac's PPC processors were actually x86. This was the biggest reason why it was so doggedly slow. Since OSX is native on x86 architecture, this is no longer a concern.

If you wan to run XP from within OSX, the best solution by far is Parallels: http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/

[zzmadd]

Virtual pc doesn't run on Intel macs ..
You run Parallels desktop ..
Virtual machines . .almost the same cpu speed as winxp native boot, but no 3D support for now.
Parallels are working on 3D support now ..

[Erik Heyninck]

Another (stupid) question: what about formats. MY external HDD is FAT32...

So, to put it simple: if I get a macpro I need WinXPPro with SDP2 on the CD to install it as a double booth and then I can run all my win licenses on it? No more extra costs? And I can get (later on) a 7900 and any HDD from any PC store to replace or add to?

[zzmadd]

Another (stupid) question: what about formats. MY external HDD is FAT32...

So, to put it simple: if I get a macpro I need WinXPPro with SDP2 on the CD to install it as a double booth and then I can run all my win licenses on it? No more extra costs? And I can get (later on) a 7900 and any HDD from any PC store to replace or add to?

- OSX read fat 32. OSX reads NTSC, but mmm it doesn't write on it. Of course you can use them in windows.
You need WinXP Pro SP2 on CD. Then after installing boot camp, you run it and:
- you make a driver cd (Apple drivers for WinXP Pro)
- create a partition or select a partition/disk where to install windows to
- you reboot with WinXP Pro cd into the DVD reader and the installation process begins.

After installing it you boot into win and:
- install apple drvers from cd you created
- reboot and INSTALL whatever you like and it's gonna work as if it would be a PC ...

Only extra cost is Leopard. Bootcamp on Tiger is beta. It will expire and you'll need to upgrade to leopard to keep on using it.

- 7900? I don't know ... maybe yes. But the moment you try to boot into OSX you'll have kernel panics since the boot rom of the 7900 doesn't work with Apple EFI (Apple machines don't have Bios, LUCKILY).
- As for hard disks, you can use any of the SATA internally (some performs better than others), or firewire 400/800/usb2/1.1 external hard disks. Remember that Win can't see OSX file system (Mac OS Extended) so you don't read Mac partitions unless you don't get an app called MacDrive (or something)

[lllab]

no heat problem, in fact they seem to need not much cooling. the mac is very very silent.

i havent sut down it since days, and it is rendering almost nonstop...

stefan

[mogh]

Hi all

the cgmails got into my spam filter didn't saw the replies.

So

@whomeitconcern:

I fixed the scroll issue partly. by setting scrollspeed to marker 3 - I had it on marker 8 bevore and then there is a sort of speedupengine kicking in. Its not that superdirect but ok on marker 3.

What bothers me on columnview is that i click on a Folder X and see the content of folder X so then i often type a Letter to jump to this section but now the "Marker / Selection" is in the previous folder and jumpung there not in the content of folder X.
Second why do i have to stretch the comlumns manualy to read lng filenames? This could be automatic.

What i miss from the windows systems is cutting out Files with "Command + X"

cya

[Per-Anders]

I'm resonably certain that cut/copy and paste should work just fine with files in OSX just as normal, don't forget it's APPLE+X/C/V on a Mac rather than CTRL (on the PC).

[ooo]

if you want to delete files it's Command (Apple) - Backspace (to send it to the trash)

[mogh]

APPLE + C and APPLE + V

Works on files, but

APPLE + X doesn't

and i dont wont to delet them, al lot of windows user MOVE files in this manner.

cya

[ooo]

OK see what you mean. Not possible in OSX but not without reason I think. Dangerous action if something happens inbetween (another copyaction, powerfailure or something else). So it means in OSX you have to drag it to the new location or copy paste and then delete.
Here's a list with shortcuts if you didn't knew them already: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75459

[Per-Anders]

No Command-X is there, and it should work, try using the command from the edit menu itself and see if that works. It's not dangerous because it doesn't actually delete anything till you paste (in fact it doesn't delete anything at all it just moves the files).

[ooo]

Sorry Per, doesn't work.
I still think it's dangerous to move files by CNTRL-X. What if you accidently repeat that action on another file instead of first CNTRL-V (or is that harmless? then I rest my case!) These unfortunate things happen when you're a bit tired at the end of the day. I wouldn't trust myself ;)

[Per-Anders]

There's nothing dangerous about it like I said. If you were to copy another file before pasting your original files are still there, it doesn't delete any files, it just moves them, and only at the point where you press the paste button (and only the once). It's odd that OSX doesn't support this in the finder.

[zzmadd]

There are dozens of settings .. you can alter enable in osx ..
The default is at it is ..
Download Onyx, or if you really want to mess things up Mac Pilot ...

there you can even tell to enable Apple+X ... and hundreds more things ..
have fun ..

if you're not happy with the finder there's a great app called Pathfinder ...
I prefer the finder .. the finder is perfect for some things . then it misses many ..

it is just a matter of you learning osx ... not that osx doesn;t do this or that .. you can make things with the terminal you can't even imagine ...

also .. abotu the scrolling thing ..
open system preferences, go to "Appeareance" and disable/enable smooth scrolling .. it should make things behave differently ..

[imashination]

while we're on the topic, is there any thumbnail view for a folder? this one is really peeing me off.

[zzmadd]

while we're on the topic, is there any thumbnail view for a folder? this one is really peeing me off.

What do you mean by thumbnail?

- You want a folder to have a thumbnail so that you see by its thumbnail what's inside the folder itself? how is that possible a live thumbnail ... maybe is something else ..
or
- You want a folder to have a particular icon? just drop an icon on top of the icon on the info window (Apple+I), but maybe is something else ..
or
- You want to see for example for any file in a folder (eg. photos) their thumbnail? for this you can do Apple+1 in the finder. Then you do Apple+J and set the size of the icons for that view to 128x128 (or desired) then enable show icon preview (it'll show the thumbnail of the pictures, or txt, and a few others), also enable show item info and u get the size of the photo (or other info depending on file type). you can choose to set the preferences for such folder only, or any folder .. also u can set background color or picture for the folder .. (put label position on right .. much nicer :-))
or
- also u can drag a folder full of picture onto Preview.app, and it'll open all of them (this is cool), but there are many hundreds of this little things hided here and there .. then if it is a sequence by pressing down arrow you'll go through them superfast seeing the animation itself .. from preview u can also send a file to email (this for any application) click and hold on the file icon on the top bar (in the centre) then drag and drop it onto mail or photoshop or whatever other app ...

u or maybe I still don't get what you're asking

[designbytes]

APPLE + C and APPLE + V

Works on files, but

APPLE + X doesn't

and i dont wont to delet them, al lot of windows user MOVE files in this manner.

cya

and in a bit of irony - at least from the Mac view - the right-click on the mouse will expose various options: move to trash, copy file, duplicate file, make alias, etc

no "cut" file there as part of a "move"; usually I drag and drop since I have the destination folder in "sight";

irony #2: a command line "mv" will work for the "move" command

Paul

[3DBond]

'Cut' could disabled for files as something of a safety precaution for new users. Imagine hitting 'X' instead of 'C' and wondering what happened to your file. Plus accidentally cutting a System file could be ugly. Otherwise iono. Never had an urge to use it personally.

Drag & drop works fine for me. If you want to 'Move' a file from 1 volume to another you just hold Command as you drag and drop. I imagine this is the equivalent to the mv command.

You can also incorporate Exposé into drag and drop. And spring-loaded folders work well too.

If you really want to get hardcore, install Quicksilver (free) and you can move files via the keyboard there quite easily. I would miss Quicksilver terribly.

[acmepixel]

Virtual PC was in fact recently killed off by Microsoft, but no matter, it was pointless. <snip>If you wan to run XP from within OSX, the best solution by far is Parallels: http://www.parallels.com/en/products/workstation/mac/

Good to know, I've been using it for years and will enjoy seeing its backside.

Thanks for the link, Will.

[AdamT]

Seems to me the arguments against Cut are pretty weak. It's been in Windows from time immemorial and I don't recall ever hearing a problem with it. It's a convenient feature to have.

[zzmadd]

as I said .. you can enable cut! .. use Onyx or Mac Pilot ..

but apple has a different perspective on things ...
that is why they do beautiful things.
they don't copy .. they invent and make life style and culture .. you may like it or not but this is how it is .. then .. as said .. if u want it .. u can enable it .. and even throw the box out of the window ..... :-) haha ...... here in osx u have many way including drag/drop for all system wide, u can drag the top of any file by taking it from the top bar onto everything, u have folders on the dock, expose' for app and doc within the app .... u have cut just enable it . u have other app to do more things ... and on and on ...

[Essania]

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

It's an application that can run some Windows software with OSX without Window.
They actually have more than 50 Window's applications compatible.
It run only on Intel Macs.

[AdamT]

as I said .. you can enable cut! .. use Onyx or Mac Pilot ..

but apple has a different perspective on things ...
that is why they do beautiful things.
they don't copy .. they invent and make life style and culture .. you may like it or not but this is how it is ..
*cough* if you say so....

[zzmadd]

.. indeed but not only ..

[MJV]

............ok

[mistafreeze]

for those with using xp having slow sata problems

http://www.macprojournal.com/xp.html

lots of people are reporting this working, I just decided im tired of waitin (having pc and mac is just too much room under my desk, and im restricted to using 1 dell 24 inch monitor)
so i can work with both machines (yea i could invest more in another dell 24 inch but i havnt seen the point) the keyboards, the madness in reguards to my sound system, its driving me insane. so i just went ahead and ordered the mac pro now.

[imashination]

- You want to see for example for any file in a folder (eg. photos) their thumbnail? for this you can do Apple+1 in the finder. Then you do Apple+J and set the size of the icons for that view to 128x128 (or desired) then enable show icon preview (it'll show the thumbnail of the pictures, or txt, and a few others), also enable show item info and u get the size of the photo (or other info depending on file type). you can choose to set the preferences for such folder only, or any folder .. also u can set background color or picture for the folder .. (put label position on right .. much nicer :-))


Thats the bit I was after, thankyou :) specifically the "Show icon preview" option :)

[daskog]

Ok no more mind tricks with myself! im Buying a Mac Pro =)

I've tought about it and it's a perfect win win situation.

Im Planing on buying Cinema 4D, Modo, Shake, FinalCut, ++
This truly is my dream machine with Shake and FinalCut (Remember i used this in media school some years back..it was blazing)

Im Planning on using my comanys leasing(rent) way of getting it, then i can live a normal life while i have lot's of fun =)

Hope to hear others opinion on this.

Cheers - Daniel Skogli

[mistafreeze]

hey daskog, i just bought mine from amazon (will arrive tomorrow)
2500 + 150 mail in rebate + no tax.

im ordering the ati card seperately.
its cheaper this way, unless you want bluetooth + wireless
however i bought my monitors from apple. they just did a refresh and updated the specs on the 23's so i got 2 of those to go with the mac

so tomorrow its fedex(apple monitors) vs UPS(macpro) who will win? im guessing fedex early in the morning, and ups after ive gone crazy waiting at 6pm

[Continuumx]

Along those lines, one concern I've got is the keyboard. I understand there are ways of remapping some keys (for example there is no true "delete" key on the Mac keyboard) and it's an essential key on the PC but that's a hassle. If you use bluetooth, is it possible to use a Mac mouse and keyboard when you boot up in OS X and a Windows mouse and keyboard if you boot into Windows or is there a fundamental problem at the hardware level?

I am curious how this will work too! Vista does not look like it will be worth the 6 year wait. Mac Os upgrades happen very frequently and the design ethos is very consistent.

By the way, I am using a 2nd -all white- generation Mac Pro keyboard with my PC and winxp- no problems. Just be sure to get a program to remap some of the keys. Overall, one of the best little keyboards I have ever had!

[dawsonbob]

I am curious how this will work too! Vista does not look like it will be worth the 6 year wait. Mac Os upgrades happen very frequently and the design ethos is very consistent.

By the way, I am using a 2nd -all white- generation Mac Pro keyboard with my PC and winxp- no problems. Just be sure to get a program to remap some of the keys. Overall, one of the best little keyboards I have ever had!

I am curious about just where this "no delete key on Mac" thing is coming from? I'm typing this on a white Mac keyboard with two--count 'em, two-- delete keys, one "regular" and one "forward." The regular delete key is clearly marked "DELETE," as is the forward delete key. I've been using Macs since 1987 and can't remember one that didn't have a clearly marked delete key. Someone simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Bob Dawson

[Continuumx]

I am curious about just where this "no delete key on Mac" thing is coming from? I'm typing this on a white Mac keyboard with two--count 'em, two-- delete keys, one "regular" and one "forward." The regular delete key is clearly marked "DELETE," as is the forward delete key. I've been using Macs since 1987 and can't remember one that didn't have a clearly marked delete key. Someone simply doesn't know what they're talking about.

Bob Dawson

I have a delete key on this one as well!

[daskog]

Maby we allso get a nice upgrade pattern!?

check this out: http://xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20060906094518.html

[NWoolridge]

I am curious about just where this "no delete key on Mac" thing is coming from?

I think it may relate to Mac laptops, which have no "forward delete" key, but which have the same functionality through the key combination Fn-delete, which some people have trouble learning or remembering (I just had to try it out on my laptop....).

Nick.

[Anadin]

Also, I think the old mini keyboard on the CRT iMacs didn't have a DELETE key

[dawsonbob]

Also, I think the old mini keyboard on the CRT iMacs didn't have a DELETE key

The Blue & White G3 shared a keyboard with the CRT iMacs and does have a delete key, though it doesn't have a forward delete key.

Nick mentions that the laptops don't have a forward delete key. Since I've only had towers I don't know; I never thought about the laptops before.

Bob Dawson

[Anadin]

As a mac laptop user for the last 8 years I can confirm that they only have a backspace key and you use fn Backspace to DELETE but you do get very used to it so much so that I keep pressing CTRL Backspace on desktop keyboards all the time now :)

[Newstream]

Woo! :)
For those of us who think that the new MacPro's are overkill (for our wallets that is) and / or iMacs & MacMinis underpowered, Apple just released the new 24-inch IMac http://www.apple.com/imac/ featuring the new Core 2 Duo chips. Considering that the decent 24-inch screen is included in the whole package, and comparing what that additional cost would be when paired with a (screen-less) MacPro, I think Apple may have hit a sweetspot here especially if hardware expandability isn't your thing and you're satisfied with 3GB of memory. Although not in the workstation league of the MacPro's, the new beefed up 24-inch IMacs's seem pretty decent or?

/ Alex

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.