stiff competition for messiah?

[chikega]

Interesting ... it's like a hybrid 2d/3d animation program. Blending PAP (http://www.plasticanimationpaper.com/) with 3d anim.

[Wegg]

and it runs on OSX.

So does Messiah now. :-)

[DaveW]

and it runs on OSX.

So does Messiah now. :-)


But that's still running in XP, so in addition to having to run an OS you don't like to use you also have buy a copy of it and buy the emulator, and I assume you have to partition some hd space as well? For Appleheads I'm sure it's better than just using Windows, but I still think a native solution is much more appealing.

OS issues aside, I think this looks like a pretty sweet app. I hope they get the standalone version done soon, I'd love to try it out.

[Wegg]

See. . . I'm not convinced you would have to run XP at all. I'm thinking the lowest of the low here. Windows98. Why would you need any more? OSX is doing the rest for you. You just need the Windows DLLs that Messiah is compatible with and. . . guess what?!? Messiah runs just fine in Windows 98. And you could launch two virtual machines when you get to rendering when you need to take advantage of the multiple cores in these macs.

Oh I'm itching to get one now.

<picture Wegg fishing around for his old "Macs Rule" T-shirts."

[dobermunk]

@Wegg: very interesting; downsizing! Sure!

@DaveW: I'll definitely be keeping my eye on this! Thanks. And: where'd you find this? This has some fantastic ideas in it. The drawing planes for shot planning and sign-offs. Classic!
Only - the technical director's write-up strikes me as somewhat milky. Anyone from CalArts here?

[DaveW]

Windows 98 is worse than XP imo. If I could get a copy of Win2k maybe, but still its lame to have to jump through all those hoops just for your animation software.


dobermunk, I found this on the spline doctors blog http://splinedoctors.blogspot.com/

[catizone]

Not sure what so hot about it. I really don't need to draw arcs and timing charts on my frames. If one wrote out all the great features we have in messiah, and really completely explained all we can do with the interaction with every tool and effect, I would imagine it would sound PRETTY IMPRESSIVE as well...probably more so.

Just one more "different" package. How well do the bones work, how many features that I have available in messiah are in there? And, I doubt that it would allow me the wonderful flexibility to build any rig any way I choose..as well as change it without losing animation.

On the other hand, as mentioned in the other thread, Silo looks like something I'm going to try as a complement to messiah.

Best,
Rick

[timnhe]

Hi,

the screen drawing feature is fantastic!, but is not necessary that PMG add this in the software. Actually, there is a couple of tools to make this:

PhatPad 3.0 -> 29.95$
http://handheld.softpedia.com/get/Word-Processing-Text-Tools/Drawing/PhatPad-2975.shtml

ZoomIt -> free!
http://www.sysinternals.com/utilities/zoomit.html


Please PMG, Dinamyc parenting in the annimate tab without need expresions, and more capatibilities of export the animations, anithing as FBX or similar are my requested features.

thanks!

[DaveW]

Well this is developed by former Pixar engineers, I think they know how to make animation software :) And one thing I really like about this one is that they are focusing on animation, like PMG *used* to do.

And the rigging is completely flexible, in fact you can even load a rigged character from Maya right into the program and it retains all the settings. It exports to Maya as well, which is great for game companies.

The drawing planes are good for thumbnailing or when a director wants you to push your poses in a certain direction. Being able to edit the curves directly in the viewport is awesome, it's something I've wanted for a long time.

I think it's pretty clear this is aimed at people trained in traditional animation, which has me pretty excited.


timnhe: The only problem with those is the drawings aren't saved with your animation file. I suspect they won't pan or zoom with the viewports either. I think an integrated solution would be a lot better.

Not sure what so hot about it. I really don't need to draw arcs and timing charts on my frames. If one wrote out all the great features we have in messiah, and really completely explained all we can do with the interaction with every tool and effect, I would imagine it would sound PRETTY IMPRESSIVE as well...probably more so.

Just one more "different" package. How well do the bones work, how many features that I have available in messiah are in there? And, I doubt that it would allow me the wonderful flexibility to build any rig any way I choose..as well as change it without losing animation.

On the other hand, as mentioned in the other thread, Silo looks like something I'm going to try as a complement to messiah.

Best,
Rick

[catizone]

Well, I'm mainly a traditional guy myself. I just meant that I don't need to draw on the screen for myself. Maybe I would if I was helping another animator push their poses, etc.

If the drawn layer isn't saved with the scene, it would seem to be pretty useless. A piece of acetate on the monitor would work just as well (and has).

Best,
Rick

[dobermunk]

Well, why stop there!? I'd like an image plane, one that I can scribble out my shot on, then animate - scribble again for feedback and quick testing - and then as a projection plane for a 3D 'liquify' tool to push my geometry towards my drawing. On top of my animation. ANd keyable deformation.

C'mon guys! This has layered animation, editable bezier-curve motion curves in the world view and (if I interpret that "attaches" thing) pinning!!!

I sure hope that messiah has their eyes on this!

[catizone]

Oh, definitely keep asking. The ability to adjust image properties directly in Lightwave without jumping out to photoshop al the time, was one of my suggestions (probably not alone on that one).

Anything thing that makes it easier and faster always allows us to concentrate on the acting aspects.

Best,
Rick

[numberEleven]

Wegg wrote "You just need the Windows DLLs that Messiah is compatible with and. . . guess what?!? Messiah runs just fine in Windows 98."

Well, thats not exactly true, at least not from my numerous attempts with win 98, and win 98se. I tried different cards, mobo's, versions of win 98, tinkering with nvidia settings, etc, and messiah would just run like doo doo. It may be true that all messiah needs is windows DLLs and a card with open gl 2.0 compliance, but, I couldnt get any of the hardware I to work with as expected.

Win xp fixed everything for me though and Studio 2.4 runs fine now, very infrequent crashing, much like LW and modo.

Im not making an argument about anything really, just warning people not to try and use some old copy of win 98 and think they will get great results on their mac-via-emulator sys, it's likely to be problematic from my own experience.

Much of what else Wegg says I learn from though, as he/she seems a pretty affluent 3d-er, especially when its studio related, which I am still really just tinkering with.

Sounds like we might be close to an unannounced release though, doesnt it? Cool!

-Garin

[Nichod]

I doubt that this would be competition. It looks like it has a stiff price.

[DMack]

It has Dynamic Parent In Place .....:)

[APLevitz]

and it runs on OSX.

So does Messiah now. :-)You got my hopes up. Not really true.

It won't run on OSX; it runs on a non-OSX partition not possible in a lot of Macs.

Most pro users are still running PowerPC, I think. There's no Universal Binary version of Photoshop, and with Quad Cores just around the corner, it's a silly time to upgrade.

In the consumer range (iMac, Mac Mini, Macbook, or even Macbook Pro), I think Intel chipsets are more the norm now. But, the onboard video on those isn't what you'd want for Messiah anyway. Plus, you're maxed out at two gigs of RAM (which is shared with your video chip, so effectively closer to 1.8)...

So, yeah... Unless there's a native Mac version, I just don't think we're there yet.

[stooch]

Oh, definitely keep asking. The ability to adjust image properties directly in Lightwave without jumping out to photoshop al the time, was one of my suggestions (probably not alone on that one).

Anything thing that makes it easier and faster always allows us to concentrate on the acting aspects.

Best,
Rick

umm you can. not sure how many properties you want but there is an image editor already there, i suggest you check it out. you can adjust color ballance, brightness, gamma, saturation etc. and you can make instances of the same image to preserve memory, its quite brilliant... works on image sequences too.

also in my opinion, that program does not compete with messiah. its a completely different approach to animation that has some really good ideas but not necessarily applicable for all artist styles. i prefer the messiah way for alot of the features, seeing and editing motion paths in the worldspace.. brilliant! no reason for messiah not to have that. also dynamic PIP and better access to parent in place with drag and drop support (as i have asked for in great detail) that would be very nice as well.

some killed bugs and more robust SBD, thats VERY useful, i dont think messiah needs to do anything revolutionary - it already is in many ways, how about just cleaning and tweaking, its so close.

[AlexK]

You got my hopes up. Not really true.

It won't run on OSX; it runs on a non-OSX partition not possible in a lot of Macs.

Most pro users are still running PowerPC, I think. There's no Universal Binary version of Photoshop, and with Quad Cores just around the corner, it's a silly time to upgrade.

In the consumer range (iMac, Mac Mini, Macbook, or even Macbook Pro), I think Intel chipsets are more the norm now. But, the onboard video on those isn't what you'd want for Messiah anyway. Plus, you're maxed out at two gigs of RAM (which is shared with your video chip, so effectively closer to 1.8)...

So, yeah... Unless there's a native Mac version, I just don't think we're there yet.
Also not quite true. only the Mac Mini and the MacBook suffer from Intel Graphics chips. The iMac and MacBook Pro run really ok on their RadeonXT 1600's. Trust me, I am the one who is running Messiah on his MacBook Pro via Parallels virtual machine software and I can't say I encountered any bigger speed hit by now.

And this is also NOT BootCamp. Windows runs in a neat little window, which I can switch to full native resolution of 1600px and run fullscreen with the click of a button and still get all notifications from OS X without anything getting unstable. Now this truely rocks. Try it out yourself before you judge guys.

[catizone]

Stooch,

What I meant was that Newtek had asked for input on what pros wanted in there if they could have it. The Image processing thing was a big one for me. I was happy to see they implemented it in 6 (or was it sooner). I was talking history, and saying that, of course, we need to keep asking for features...that's how they make it in.

I can't see changing from messiah. My only real issue is a personal one of really needing to address the whole shader/render methodology so I can effectively use it.

That said, I'm hoping for a new release of messiah soon, and a new host of tutorial videos.

Best,
Rick

[Leebre]

catizone, are you familiar with the Joe Cosman's library of tutorials? He has several, they are all very inexpensive, and he's incredibly well versed not just in how to get the most out of messiah but in the fundamentals of animation as well.

[stooch]

yep. i would vouch for him as well.

[catizone]

Yes, I know of them. I have John Riggs' tutorials (I believe they were the first ones out).
I intended to pick up Joe's, but then workflow changed and I wasn't using messiah.

Now, for a project I want to get going, I am needing to re-learn a lot of messiah. I have some of my original rigging done in messiah, but I may adapt it after revisiting many of the better features that came out afterwards.

Thanks,
Rick

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