Gods/Demons - Character - Martin-K

[hobbes]

woahhhhhhh incredible:)

what's next???

btw i didn't see your pa character in the final list.did i missed it?
have you finished him????i hope.

[Mike RB]

right on! I've only seen one model done like this in Lightwave. I've never seen it in Mirai. Usually you cant start with enough points to fully describe the final shape. It looks like you have enough there, I hope Mirai has the poly management tools to handle that mess, do you plan to do most of it with magnets?

Mike.

[rendermonkey23]

I thought you got capped :) Where the hail have you been?

anywho, keep goin with the xdugef... NICE :)

[chi]

hey martin, long time no see, well i did see the tiger timelapse thats so awsome makes me dream of days when i had acces to mirai, i miss it so much, im sure this will be a onehelluva cool model, btw did you ever finish the Bully cuz that was superfine,

yeah and i personaly think that bay raitt while very good is no longer king of mirai, just you

[blc318]

Is there any documentation on this approach. I asked in the last challenge but noboy said anything. I cant find anything on the web.

[Martin-K-]

Originally posted by Mike RB
right on! I've only seen one model done like this in Lightwave. I've never seen it in Mirai. Usually you cant start with enough points to fully describe the final shape. It looks like you have enough there, I hope Mirai has the poly management tools to handle that mess, do you plan to do most of it with magnets?

Mike.

yes. mirais poly management tools are very excellent. its in the form of a maya outliner/xsi explorer....but..with the added functionality that layers give you. so i can hide any parts that i like...very quickly because of the way its implelemted to use the mouse fully.

btw i didn't see your pa character in the final list.did i missed it?
have you finished him????i hope.

here is the image.
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images/WIP/tiger-3d.jpg

and here is the final video.
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/Tiger/M-K-TIGER.avi

yeah and i personaly think that bay raitt while very good is no longer king of mirai, just you

hey man. howvya been. havent seen you on for ages.
no bully is still up in the air. tho i dont think im going to make him all too high poly. i think ill just give him some mid-poly armour...and add a nice texture to it. after playing tekken tag..i think ill make it look like yoshimistus' armour :)

also...having seen lord of the rings....im sure there is a lot that he hasnt shown us that would make me think otherwise.

[SheepFactory]

great start Martin ,

over the years i found the Xdugef method to be very helpful especially in character and weed modelling.

i recommend this technique to all the 3d artists who wants to produce outstanding results in short time.

Happy Xdugefing

A|i

[SEL]

I have a question for you, last challenge, you and a couple other brought up that name xudef to me as far as the approach that I was taking, you never got back to be as to what or who it was. Now I see its a modelling technique, right?, if you could explain it in greater detail or tell me a site that would help me better understand it, I would appreciate it a lot, hope to hear back from you..

shaun

[AnimBot]

I hate to be yet another person asking this but could you please maybe show a link or some documentation or anything illustrating what Xdugef is PLEASE!!!

[rendermonkey23]

Sheep factory, you've known about xdugef for a while now? I mean, it's pretty new right?

Damn, I just found out about it from a instructor at school about a month ago. Wish I would have known for my last project. :)

[Facial Deluxe]

I really wonder what it's going to look like.
But love the idea !
BTW, I have to add I prefer you do it rather than me ! Haha. You said Zen ? What a mess ! Man, if you're not already, you'll get crazy !!!
Can't wait for the next update.:p

[Adrien]

As i am not really a modeller, i like the videos you make in the previous challenge...
I can see your methodology and the way you progress...
it's really interesting.

I Hope you will do the same for this challenge.

[Adrien]

oops... i forget to add some questions..

to simply understad what you are talking about, i need some answer to those questions :

who is the Zen master Tomas Xdugef ?
is it real ?
can you detail is method or tell us where we can find documentation about it ?

and as i'm a very very beginner in 3D modelling :
what is a paracated poly ?

[cerreto]

I think the reason alot of people are asking and not geting asnswers they want is because asking aobut this method is the same as the age old newbie qestion how do i model a head or a character etc , its not as simple as make a box blah blah blah if you can martin get ahold of thomas and well try to get hom to do a tutorial his site is still down last i checked but it would help

[chi]

yeah but didn't he use maya on lord of the rings?
anyways just imo, cuz youve been more inspirational to a great number of people :)

cant wait to see how your model starts shaping out, and see how this new method turns out for you

if im right it closely simulates modeling with clay??

[Joel Hooks]

Bay said he used Mirai on the Cave Troll, and was a bit miffed that it wasn't mentioned in any of the media write-ups...

--

A definition for the word paracated would be nice. Is that english? A new word? Do paracated polys come with fries? :)

[MadS]

I've always been a huge fan of Tomas Xdugef's work in the past. I am very pleased to see that talented artists like Martin are taking the big plunge into this very obscure but promising approach to modelling. It takes patience to learn, but once you get the basics down, it's all smooth sailing from there.

I'm not too sure how to properly explain parcated/paracated polies. But I'm sure either Cerreto or Tomas could easily shed some light on this term. It's like when you watch a movie, and you hear a very uncommon word used, but you understand it's meaning in the context of the sentence. Same thing with parcated...

[Joel Hooks]

Indeed.

[Martin-K-]

im trying to make some progress with this method. but because its such an obscure method. its hard to really nail it down on my first try. i had to restart a few times already.
making a good use of the magnet system. and hiding areas that im not working on are key,in the early stages. especially trying to wrap my head around the "line theory", and how to apply it to 3d modelling. since it originally is a traditional art methodology.

[Mike RB]

Hey, Coreeto mentioned in the discussion thread that one of the guys involed with this method is Leonardo Poestle, is that right? Have you ever heard of him? I think I learned about this thread theory stuff in school... Maybe I should try to apply it to my modeling.. Do you have any more info on it?

Mike

[Martin-K-]

not sure if id want to say too much. i mean i want to get a solid grip of the techniques before i share them. no point in making a fool out of myself. this way if i come to any short commings i can share them too.
leo is a good guy. been in touch with him for a while now. but you got the spelling of his name wrong. its Leovod Ponstel. ( unless were talking about different people, then im not sure )

[Martin-K-]

k. throwing some ideas around.
it looks too humanoid. but im liking his expression. and the teeth :)

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/images_dump/freaky-demon2.jpg

[rendermonkey23]

Damn foo... I love your 2d stuff

By the way...... you suck

[Wraith]

:bounce: Looks Good Dude!:bounce:

-------------------------------------------------------

My March Challenge So Far (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3816)

[dreadling]

Man, there is some serious primal anger in that sketch, I dig it......keep it up, can wait to see where this goes.
d

[chi]

hey martin, i really like the sketch but it kind of makes me feel like im looking at some one whos eaten to many burritos than someone crazy with rage, i know it might sound bruttle, but im positive in the end youll pull of sumthing amazin

[Martin-K-]

step-1


skeleton-setup/testing (http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/fat_odin.avi)

by the way. im taking down the tiger video.

[chi]

man seeing that video reminds me why mirai is so great... but im still waiting for some wips on the model :)

[BASSit]

That´s a really unusual way to start with the sceleton, isn´t it ? I haven´t seen this before i saw that Tiger-vid !! I think i will try to create a character with that method in the near future - could be fun :D

That sketch looks really promising ! Hope to see the model soon !!!

[Martin-K-]

Video( 2 megs ) (http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/freak.avi)


http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/freak-01.jpg

[Adrien]

Thank you for the video...

that's exactly the kind of document i need to learn a methodology of modeling...

thank you very much...

(did i say i'm a beginner ?)
(a beginner who use Nendo)

[Lonewolf]

Forgive me for being niave but how is that method any different than the usual? I didn't see any paracated pollies, just the standard connect edges to create topology routine. Excellent model nonetheless.

[Martin-K-]

oh. sorry i didnt mention. but i kinda gave up on the whole xdugef thing for this model. it was a bit too challenging to do within the timeframe that we were given for this. ( and im kinda limited in hardware resources. ( since xdugef requires a very fast machine. )

[Martin-K-]

heres kind of what itll look like. its a guide. but im not going to stick to it 100%.
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/Freaky-Demon3-small.jpg

[chi]

dude thats great sketch now thats more anger and less constipation, even though i guess i would be angry if i was constipated, any who, its good sometimes to stick to what we know to get the best results

the vid is cool to, i like how you hide the mouse, gives a neat feel to the vid

anyways hope to see more great updates

[Dan Dixon]

once again you come up with a great character. Good concept on your design not much to comment on yet but maybe when there's more. just great art

[DrAdamDinosaur]

I was wondering why the new method didn't look much different from the old, and now i know. Video is really interesting, the facial detail especially. The character is shaping up nicely. Also nice angry concept.

[rendermonkey23]

Originally posted by Martin-K-
oh. sorry i didnt mention. but i kinda gave up on the whole xdugef thing for this model. it was a bit too challenging to do within the timeframe that we were given for this. ( and im kinda limited in hardware resources. ( since xdugef requires a very fast machine. )

:)

[Kaos]

wow, i love that you share your techniques with people... i for one, really need the help, as i no longer have the time to spend 20 hours of the day practising.......

Anyway, i have a question for you if you don't mind answering : Do you EVER check to see what the smoothed version looks like???

[Martin-K-]

Originally posted by Kaos
Anyway, i have a question for you if you don't mind answering : Do you EVER check to see what the smoothed version looks like???

since smoothing sucks majorly in every single application right now. ( including mirai ) i preffer not to smooth. its evil.

let me elaborate by what i mean.

when you model, you try to go for a certain shape., no ? so when you smooth, what happens is that there is a lot of averaging that happens. and you lose a lot of the original shape that you had. you lose that ..edge.
so what you really want is a smoother version of what you originally had. but keep as close to the shape of what you modelled as possible. and right now that just isnt happening.

though there are close solutions.

1.) you can use Doo-Sabin smoothing ( otherwise known as bi-quadratic ) this keeps a LOT closer to the shape than catmull, BUT. it also results in a lot higher poly counts. and the results arent all quads. also. there are some UV issues with doo-sabin like if you have multiple groups, then after smoothing youll get a lot of inbetween /unassigned groups that youll have to go back to and re-assign )

2.) the second solution is ( in mirai ) you can animate your character. and then use a shape displace. , set the keyframe. and then use a negative tighten, to give back the "puff" to the model.
( make sure your shape displace channel is AFTER the animation channels. because if its before. then the skeletal animation channels will initialize over the shape animation that you had set.
no big deal tho. you can re-order the channels if you need. so its not like you ever lose any work. )

there is one studio that has a method to solve this problem.
by calculating a micropoly displacement map between the smoothed and low rez mesh. and then applying it to the smoothed to get it as close to the low rez shape as possible.
but that technology isnt really available to us at this time.

to get a better idea of what im saying. visit this link.

http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/viewtopic.php?TopicID=9

[Kaos]

interesting.... so, your goal is to one day use an advanced sub-div modeller??




i could really put that micropoly displacement to some god use in my scenes..... WOW, no more waiting 2 days for the displacements to compute!!!!

[skello]

:confused: :confused: .Err martin..i think if you want to keep the basic shape of the cage as closed to the smoothed on as possible all you have to do is to create more edges(where you want the shape to average less at smoothing)..In some packages you even have an option to weigh or crease edges or vertices which also helps...Just IMO though.:)

[Martin-K-]

yes i know about all that. but you dont want to end up with too much geometry. and when smoothed that translates to even more geometry. too much excess baggage if you ask me. value creasing is a step closer. but you cant use that on full models because youll start to make it look faceted. remember. im not only talking about keeping creases. but keeping the puff of the model which is lost when you smooth.
i know that i can work around this. but i dont feel like working around this problem id rather just sculpt the shape i want. that move on.

some places have solved this problem. so its just a matter of time until its public.

[Mike RB]

cardinal splines work by putting the line THROUGH the verticies, instead of b-spline or nurbs where the points sit outside the line.

I wonder why noone has come up with a smoothing system for doing cardinal type smoothing... :( But I guess thats why we have Xdugef, I seems like Xdugef is possible in all packages, unfortunately the techniques are so obscure that its somthing thats just coming into the open...

Nurbs used to be the big thing, now its sub-d.... Xdugef is next.. and if we dont learn how its done were going to fall behind. Martin please hurry with the learning material you have on it so you can post up some recorded videos of the process....

Mike

PS: I love the horns.. neat man.

[Clienad]

I think I understand what your saying MK. I see that your looking at the purity of the polygons its a tough trade off as you always (with bicubic smoothing tech) get a nasty buggeyed look to everything. imo once smoothing takes over and it can destroy a great tight look

I preffere surface tesselation with a low or negative relaxation to build a heavier mesh but still keep the shape (puff) of the original cage. it would work a treat for your tiger character and this one. Then if you want it uber smooth add the bicubic smoother. but that can lead to an excessively poly heavy monster. esp for my meager 500mhz pc. but it will retain the definition of the original cage due to the tesselation. (dont know why exactly it just does.)

[Joel Hooks]

Originally posted by Mike RB
Nurbs used to be the big thing, now its sub-d.... Xdugef is next.. and if we dont learn how its done were going to fall behind. Martin please hurry with the learning material you have on it so you can post up some recorded videos of the process....


The technique that revolves around broken angelfire webpages and cryptic web board ramblings. The technique whose definitions (paracated) can't even be described in the english language, much less visually. Hopefully there is something at SIGGRAPH this summer to clue in the ignorant slackers that can't figure out this method.


http://xdugef.tripod.com/

[quivermonkey]

maybe?. I think that Spline modeling with some improvements in workflow allows many of the features we are talking about...it is adjustable by alpha gama and the normal bezier editing for each point. that helps define what you want where you want it. I have long wished for a patch modeler that worked a little more like sub-d.....what will bridge the gap?
-qm

[muckywetnoodle]

Nice start. I was wondering how that point mass was going to work out. I run into major stability issues with hi-res stuff.

note about mirai smoothing-as ambient knows also, another problem with mirai's smooth functionality is that as soon as you make any additive/subtractive changes to your control cage, the link to the smoothed version is broken severely limiting the usefulness of smoothing until you are almost finished. This is just plain unintuitive and needs some fix if they ever update the software. A virtual geometry smooth would be nice as well as more smoothing options similar to crease.

[Mike RB]

lowdown: I posted this in the general disscussion topic about Xdugef.

http://www.geocities.com/lponstel/index.html

Its a ancient webpage by the Loevod guy. But everything there is broken too, but there is another name mentioned there. Maybe we can find somthing about D. Gallagher...

Mike

[Fetus23]

just wondering how you make those videos. I'd like to give it a try.

great character!! your concept is beautiful.
we gonna see some animations?

fetus

[Martin-K-]

lil update
2 min long...2 megs big.

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/freak2.avi

[Martin-K-]

jabba sees jenny craig.

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/Freaky-Demon3d2.jpg

[AnimBot]

Wow with a mouth that big looks like he could swallow Jenny Craig whole:eek: This guy looks very menacing right now cool.

[Martin-K-]

lil test.
http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/demon.jpg

[prototyp3]

Originally posted by lowdown


The technique that revolves around broken angelfire webpages and cryptic web board ramblings. The technique whose definitions (paracated) can't even be described in the english language, much less visually. Hopefully there is something at SIGGRAPH this summer to clue in the ignorant slackers that can't figure out this method.


http://xdugef.tripod.com/
Lol. My thoughts exactly.

[Teyon]

I like what I see.

[Stephen Vyas]

With a face like that, I bet he gets all the chicks :)

[marcom]

thanx for sharing those modelling-videos.

[111]

I'm new here. Just test to let you see me joining:)

[OZ]

G I B B A H O O O O !!!! i like your char. Very Very Very Much! he got a great personality....You know?.....that kind of stuff people always remember........:cool:

[ambient-whisper]

hey martin. that looks like crap. what the hell are ya thinking.!!!!!!!!!! get off the drugs.

[kfc]

cool work dude.
:)
u are such a devil on polygon modeling.

[Dark_Des]

Yes, i agree with you, very nice modelling. :eek:

[ambient-whisper]

http://ambient-whisper.cgcommunity.com/MV/Videos/demon/Freaky-Demon3d3.jpg

[Joebount]

I wouldn't like to be his dentist !!! I love those folds ! 5 stars ! (I would give another 5 for the videos :) )

[cerreto]

love the teeth man !

[Facial Deluxe]

Really cool, modeling lesson for me as usual...
Did you bone him, like the previous cat ?

[l_farley13_l]

oooh oooh oooh

I'm with OZ on this one, defintely a classic! It's amazing how much detail your putting into the control mesh without going wacko!! (and keeping it smooth :)) But how the hell is he going to close that mouth ;) (maybe slightly folding teeth like a pit viper etc.) :eek: :eek: :eek:

Let's see the body !

-Farley13

[chi]

das da shit and thats all i have to say:)

[rendermonkey23]

These teeth are rockin man, and the punching bag is cool too. It's all about the details brotha.

[dtek8]

Awesome words cannot describe:thumbsup:

dtek

[ambient-whisper]

since the next challenge will be on texturing. im going to enter this character in for texturing. he looks better now. still building him tho :/

[dtek8]

cool looking forward to seeing a textured version of this guy:)

and looking forward to when u update 2:)

i really love this strange creature:buttrock:

dtek

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