UGAC- Master Chamber- Rules - Revised and Updated Please Read!

[Ghostscape]

Q: Where is the Front Page Plug?A: I will try to get this replugged in a couple of hours, if you have any questions/comments please post them as soon as possible!
Q: That Poly Count seems really low… Why was such an number chosen, it doesn’t seem to be very “Next-Gen”?A: The specs it looks like we are shooting at are high end current gen, mid-end next gen (xbox 360, PS3). If you stop to think about it, 20,000 is really the sweet spot; while it is low enough to not be daunting; it is high enough to get impressive results; while at the same time being not ultra-time consuming (IE: More people theoretically finish). I understand the questions about the polys. But, those are around normal with PC games such as Battlefield 2, Half Life2, and Doom3... Remember, this is ONE area. If you think it is low, make the room smaller... It is all up to you

Check it out...[Link (http://games.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ea-games/misc/bf2modpolycountguidelines.doc)]

Q: How is voting done?A: Voting is preformed by designated judges. Each Judge is given six (6) points to distribute among the contestants who have finished their projects. (Note: For your entry to be judged, it must be posted in the “submissions” thread) Each judge will critique each entry and then award 1st-3rd place. First place will receive three (3) points, second place will receive two (2) points, and third place will receive one (1) point. This process will be preformed an minimum of three times by different judges, and then be tallied, with the places announced soon after.

If you are interested in judging please PM Ghostscape or post in the thread, we're looking for experienced folks in the game industry!


Q: What do I win if I get 1st place?A: 1st place winner will be able to choose the topic of the next challenge. They will also get their worked "plugged" on the front page. Q: Do I need to model an interior or not?A: 100% yes. While you should probably have props in the environment, the focus is the environment, which means don't spend 18,000 triangles on a really cool tank and 2,000 on the garage it's sitting in.
Q: 4096x4096 texture space what does that mean?

A: You can use any combination of any type of maps, but when you add up the area of all of your textures, they should add up to 4096x4096. This means you could have 16 1024x1024 maps, 64 512x512 maps, etc. This is TOTAL texture space, so a 512x512 diffuse map, 512x512 normal map, 512x512 specular map, and 512x512 glow map would add up to 1024x1024 texture space, allowing you to make 15 more props with those same specifications.


Q: What type of texture types are allowed?
A: We allow all types of textures to let people focus on overall design and lighting. But, please remember, that what textures you use will be considered when judging entries. So; just because one entry uses the latest and greatest in HDRI rendering, while another uses only bump mapping, the more advance entry will not win automatically. The whole entry is judged.
Q: Is the 4096x4096 texture space RGB or RGBA? A: It is RGBA, so this means you can fit your opacity into your diffuse map, your specular intensity into your spec map, your parallax heightmap into your normal map, etc.

Q: Do particle effects count towards polycount?
A: Treat each point in a face sprite particle setup as a single triangle. For geometry particle effects add the total triangle count into the environment. Keep in mind particles typically have complex shaders that are expensive and are not usually used en masse for large visual effects.

Q: What about lighting and shaders and other environmental voodoo
A: Do not count baked lightmaps in your texture space requirements, and feel free to light your environment as needed. As numerous engines are out/are coming out with a multitude of different styles and workflows for lighting methods, take advantage of the full capabilities of your renderer. As most engines support either stencil shadows, projection-map shadows, or other advanced shadow techniques, feel free to render with shadows turned on. For environmental shader effects such as mirrors or water, feel free to use either real time shaders (.fx files and the like) or non-realtime shaders as needed, and note which is used. While using real time shaders will shine more favorably on your entry, due to their individualized workflows in engines it is okay to use non-realtime shaders.

Q: What was this previous nonsense about compression

A: Ignore it, for the sake of convience and to even the playing field amongst those of us that do not have experience/knowledge of various forms of compression, we're sticking to a block of texture space instead of compression.

[AndrewRaZ]

Thanks for this resolution! I know a lot of people were confused and frustrated. It's nice to know we can have plenty of texture space now.

I do have two lingering questions that weren't answered from the first rules topic: How are effects and procedurals considered in terms of the technical limitations? Will particle effects, light projections, etc, be counted in the polygon count? My environment will include these, so I would really like to know.

[Shadow Spoon]

Got a Q:

Is the 4096x4096 texture space allowed to be in RGBA or just RGB?

(Oh and cool we can keep going even without DH:bounce:)

[Ghostscape]

updated the FAQ

[Pyrotechnic]

Thank whoever that mess got sorted out, I might get round to entering now...

[RO]

Realized that I commented on some threads lol and it brought this down so let me bump it :D

[sheppyboy2000]

I can't help but wonder. Will winnign this ACTUALLY allow you to get one of those nifty "CG Society Award Winner" icons by your name?

[Auctane]

No it wont get you an award, you will get a front page plug. With a front page plug, the mods will actually see it though, which would improve your chances. However it seems like over 1/2 of the mods here dont care for game art. I havent seen a cg award been given to game art in a long time... Now that I think about it, other than this challenge, the only game art that I have seen get a front page plug in a long time was BoBo's work on Titan Quest.

[sheppyboy2000]

removed for board untiy

[RO]

Than Sheppyboy2000 you have not seen a lot of it. I have seen a lot of good work. At the very least the best looking ones have gotten pluged and awards. But I agree the mods are lacking a bit when it comes to choosing game-art plugs. Thing is game-art is very diff compared to highpoly modeling. Those diff are slowly being taken away which is good. Game artists with the new tech are able to do far more impressive models than in the past and it just keeps going. Game art can not really impress like a full highpoly model or a very nice painting in these fourms. But that is what a few people here are trying to change. I know I try to get people I know to post game art here. But a lot of those people stick to the mod communities or game modeling community. Which kind of leaves us with a small group of experianced people here in Cgtalk who have done amazing models. But we need more people from the outside to come in and post and do stuff for these comps. I will try to enter every comp that involves level design and as I get more experianced with charecter design ill go for that also.

We have a lot of talented people here just not enough to really make an impact just yet.

Edit: But slowly the number of new and talented people are coming :)

[Ghostscape]

I've seen Bobo, Mindrot, b1ll, and a couple of others get plugged. Pretty much the people that make fantastic looking characters and are probably people we all find inspiring get plugs. To be honest, a lot of the stuff in the gameart forum simply doesn't stand on it's own next to the other masterwork without caveats like "I only had 2k triangles to work with" etc.

It's possible to get a cgtalk award for gameart but it takes a truly masterful level of skill, but to be quite honest, it does for regular 3d and the 2d guys as well :D

The strongest portion of the UGAC has always been, imho, the learning experience that you get when you have 20-40 people working on a similar theme. People have different workflows, styles, etc, and you get to see WIPs with them dealing with problems similar to what you're facing. The prize doesn't matter so much as the learning experience, in my opinion.

[sheppyboy2000]

removed for board unity

[Auctane]

David Sheppard, next time you post please read the header above the message entry field titled "Before posting, please review the following:"

[Wayne Adams]

I didn't enter the compo, to get plugged. It would be cool if it happened, but I would like to think that we should all be in it to challenge each other. To me, a challenge helps me focus, and I can complete something with more ease. Glory and fame is all good, and the victor should get the spoils, but don't enter a challenge like this win, enter it to become better.

My two cents anyway.

[sheppyboy2000]

Removed for board unity

[Wayne Adams]

......oh no.......
:(

[Auctane]

Sorry David, I wasn't looking for an argument.

[sheppyboy2000]

Neither was I. Tell you what, for the sake of board unity, I'll edit my previous posts. My opinion still stands but this way, it doesn't really offend anyone.

[orko60]

I like the idea of fitting the SpecPower map into the alpha channel of the Spec Map, but I was wondering how to set this up to render in Maya. I'm assuming this is how things will work in Next Gen engines like Unreal3, but would it be cheating if I used two different tex maps as a workaround in Maya (with one representing the "alpha channel" of the other, if it were there, being used as a file texture for the spec power)? Or is there a way to plug just the alpha channel in to be used to dictate spec power? Thanks for your help.

[Ghostscape]

I don't know how to do it in Maya specifically, but if you can't get it to work right, then just save it as a separate map to get it to work in Maya. This whole thing is on the honor policy and if you can't get something to work in your piece of software and have to fake it by splitting the RGB from the A then it's not that big a deal.

[orko60]

Thanks, man. That's probably what I'll have to do.

[braincell84]

I have a question. I am currently in the process of conceptualising my interrior but I have to ask: Would I loose points if my interior was made of several separate rooms? Is there a prefference towards a single large space?

I'm not talking about tastes, such as that larger rooms/halls look more impressive in general, i'm just asking is it not too far outside of competition guidelines?

I ask this because you used the term "a single interior space" in the first post.

[Ghostscape]

Multiple rooms is fine, mine includes multiple rooms since I don't have actual doors. Ideally though you want to keep the number of rooms low and not model an entire level.

[Auctane]

Just a couple days over 2 weeks left everybody!

Maybe the submission thread should go up soon?

[sheppyboy2000]

Despite my lack of updates, I am still working on mine. I hope to put something up either tonight or tomorrow night. I know I won't have a chance in hell of winning but I digress.

[RO]

Ok i was thinking about texture resources atm and I was wondering.

I have my spec maps inside the color/diffuse map does this count as one texture? so on the grand scale of 4096x4096 this would only block out one space of lets say 512x512?

Just want to know this in the faq i got confused since you mentioned in one of the questions about the ability to have a alpha inside a texture because of RGBa.

since with this concept I will be able to make three more 1024x1024 textures and a bit more. But if this is not so I am well over and I guess ill have to use the diffuse/color maps as a spec map since that is possible also just not the best thing.

[Ghostscape]

If you're using a grayscale spec map, which I'm assuming is the case, then count as the alpha channel for your diffuse.

Submission thread will be going up later today folks, we've got just about a week left!

[RO]

Thanks

So this means if I have a alpha channel in a diffuse map or a hight map in a normal as long as I have the alpha in that texture it is just counted as one texture? Just want to get it 100%.

Thanks again for you answear just want to get it clear. So if I need to change some bits ill do that on the final render and setup for my peice.

[Ghostscape]

Yes, if you have an alpha channel in an RGB texture you just count the space of the the RGBA texture. The whole texture space allotted in 4096x4096xRGBA, so you can have an alpha channel on every texture and use 4096x4096 texture space total.

[RO]

Thanks :)

Added this below because my msg was too short to post :D

[sheppyboy2000]

Is it possible to beg, plead, steal for an extra week? I'm in the middle of a move and while I can put something up by deadline, my stage is based more for animation so I'd like the extra time to try and snag a quick reel for the comp.

[RO]

I agree more time would be good for this comp. Some entrys that look really good are being delayed due to reallife things like entering school or work projects.

The only reason I was able to do a lot of the work on my entry is that I am on summer vacation from my school. I know many are not this lucky. More entrys the better imo.

[Auctane]

Sheppy, there isnt a single image in your WIP thread, is an extra week going help?

I will be able to finish. Judging by the history of these challenges and the current state of all the WIP's, I have a good feeling who will have entries in the submission thread and who will not. I am not for an extention at this point. I dont think it would help anyone out who is lagging, and will only delay the next challenge. It would be great if someone would prove me wrong though. If there aren't any judges lined up yet though...:shrug:

[sheppyboy2000]

Sheppy, there isnt a single image in your WIP thread, is an extra week going help?

Majority of my time was being placed in planning phases. The geometry (aside from DJ tables and lighting fixtures) is complete. I've just been trying to avoid showing anything until I have something worth showing. Tell you what, within the hour, my WIP thread will have a couple pictures. Deal?

[Ghostscape]

If 8 people with threads showing work ask for an extra week, I'll extend it. I'd rather have more entries than less.

[sheppyboy2000]

There, updated. Delayed slightly because suddenly I had a ton of paperwork to update the databases at work. So I had to wait until I got home to post updates.

[AndrewRaZ]

i could use an extra week. the mod project i'm working on has an august 17 deadline for getting everything ready for a showing, which means i'm probably not going to be able to work on this at all again until that's done.

[HellBoy]

hay guys


I'd like to give a suggestion, I think it would attract lot of participaters if there were a gap between the challenges, about a month or two. I myself don't think I'll submit my entry because work is eating me alive :eek: by that was my "everone knows it duuuhh" idea :)

[Wayne Adams]

My vote is for NO extra time. Not to be harsh..but for rule keeping sake. It's not an insinuation at anyone at all. I'll be ready on the 17th...hope to see ya'll there.

[braincell84]

I would vote FOR extra time. It's very uncertain for me if I'll finish it in time, mostly because i had to waste 2 days on repairing my HD. I'm speeding ahead now, but I still feel uncomfortable with the deadline. Perhaps I will finish it "sort of" by 17th but it wont be the final final piece, i might miss some furniture and details I wanted to put in. So in that sense I wouldnt really show what I wanted to.

[AndrewRaZ]

my vote will be FOR an extra week. like i mentioned, we've got a deadline of aug 17 for the mod project, so i can't afford to take any more time to work on this until that is done.

[sheppyboy2000]

I vote for YES. Mainly because my computer is in boxes, cables are runnign everywhere, and I'll be unpacking and setting things up at LEAST until Wednesday evening.

[Shadow Spoon]

I can't make it for any of the deadlines Im afraid, so I wont vote at all.

Just dropping a comment:
I can see its anoying for people like Wayne Adams, who have worked hard to make it to the deadline (not saying that people who vote yes havent worked hard..) but if there only is 2 entrants with a finnished room, it will be a bit boring vote won't it?

[Azeiku]

I would vote FOR extra time. I've had a busy couple weeks in real life and would very much appreciate an extension.

Thanks!
Azeiku

[System404]

well for my part I've been slammed with a lot of work due for the end of this month. I don't think I can get it done even if I had an extra week. so rather than ask for an extension and then end up not getting it done, I will probably just drop this and hope next challenge I can have more free time.

[Ghostscape]

Guys there are currently 7 votes for right now, but more importantly, I think Rog is the only one who has a submission actually finished. I would like for there to be more than 3 entries for judging, but I don't want to vote myself as I feel there is a bit of conflict of interest with me being both a participant and running the contest.

[Auctane]

well, alright... just so you have more time to find judges and so everyone else can finish (:D), count me as #8.

[sheppyboy2000]

HUZZAH! And now the pressure is on. Can I complete roughly 80% of the textures in a matter of an extra week? Survey says.... of course. Granted, I'm not going for a style like Ro's so that takes SOME of the pressure off. Now I'm just trying to decide if I should go for a few static shots or take the extra time to animate a short video showing off the many features of the stage? It was all built with animation in mind, after all.....

[Ghostscape]

I'm extending the deadline for another week since general consensus is that we should.

New Deadline is August 24th

[Ghostscape]

Less than 1 week left! It's gotten quiet in the last couple of days, I hope it's because you're all too busy working on your entries to bother posting updates :D

[Auctane]

The 1 week extention was great, it gave me the chance to sign up for a WoW trial period (only wasted 1 day with that), finally get an Xbox 360, and play a bunch of games, downloaded a bunch of demos, played Tomb Raider for the first time ever. I am going to have to buy that game. Now that we are down to the last minute again, I can get finished up.

[sheppyboy2000]

I'll post an update tonight. I have a vast majority of the stage textured (and the speakers look badass) and tonight I'll work on the bar.

and BTW, the new Tomb Raider game is badass... except for the ending. Is it just me or is Lara shifting the blame more than just a little bit? Good game though. Warning: Xbox 360s version gets all sorts of weird lighting and flickering issues that no other version has. And that includes the PSPs version. Just thought I would throw that out there.

[Ghostscape]

Since i have no previous experience running these things I sort've forgot about gathering judges. They're sort've important, so consider me an idiot :D

I just sent out PMs to 5 folks asking them to judge. They're all respected members of the community and most of them are former judges. If at least three of them agree to judge, We're using all of them that agree to judge. If we have less than three judges, I'll send out another round of PMs.

If you're still awake and reading this, you've got 40 minutes left by my clock before the submission deadline.

[Auctane]

I snagged up a spot, im done, just putting submission together

[Ghostscape]

So far two people have said they'll judge, one has declined, and I haven't heard from two others. Like I said before, if we don't get three judges out of this batch, I'll ask 5 more people.

[Ghostscape]

Guys since I haven't heard back from two folks I'm sending out another round of PMs asking for judges. By tuesday midnight I'm calling whatever we have as the final word. Does this sound good to anyone else?

[sheppyboy2000]

If you'll allow me to, I can be one of the judges. Since I couldn't participate, I can at least contribute in some way.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.