Microsoft files 26 U.S. piracy lawsuits

[AlexC]

the latest move in its ramped-up efforts to boost sales by cracking down on illegal copies.

Imo that will lower sales as people will then look for free alternatives such as Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/).

[mlynch]

Imo that will lower sales as people will then look for free alternatives such as Ubuntu Linux.



And Open Office (http://www.openoffice.org/).

[Para]

Neither of those are actually proper choices for the masses...it's like telling every single Painter user to start using GIMP and only GIMP from now on.

[AlexC]

OpenOffice is more than a proper choice for the masses, as is the GIMP. Just because it's different to what you are use to does not mean it is no good, once you get use to them and where things are they are great applications. IT's the artist that makes the art, not the program remember!

Please don't make this into an OpenOffice v MS Office, Photoshop v GIMP thread!

[Samo]

Neither of those are actually proper choices for the masses...

maybe ubuntu is not for the masses, but why not OpenOffice?

[psyop63b]

Other than the Windows OS and it's bundled applications, I don't use MS products. OpenOffice and Firefox/Thunderbird are excellent examples of free alternatives that work just as well, perhaps BETTER than their MS counterparts. I use AVG antivirus (http://www.grisoft.com) and ZoneAlarm (http://www.zonelabs.com)for internet security as opposed to MS' proposed antivirus service, Norton, McAfee, etc.

.

[pixelmonk]

Imo that will lower sales as people will then look for free alternatives such as Ubuntu Linux (http://www.ubuntu.com/).


heh that's a funny and yet sadly ignorant statement. 26 lawsuits won't have the masses looking for alternatives. That's like saying people will stop selling or doing drugs just because 26 drug related arrests were made. Pirates will contine pirating, but regardless of that fact, people will still continue to buy Microsoft products. Maybe not you, as your silly comment was geared more towards your preference for Linux (as seen in your boring tagline "Spread UggyBoogy")

[instinct-vfx]

heh that's a funny and yet sadly ignorant statement. 26 lawsuits won't have the masses looking for alternatives. That's like saying people will stop selling or doing drugs just because 26 drug related arrests were made. Pirates will contine pirating, but regardless of that fact, people will still continue to buy Microsoft products. Maybe not you, as your silly comment was geared more towards your preference for Linux (as seen in your boring tagline "Spread UggyBoogy")

i agree with you that it will neither lower sales, nor boost opensource alternatives...but what i find sadly ignorant is getting personal on such an issue...

[pixelmonk]

i agree with you that it will neither lower sales, nor boost opensource alternatives...but what i find sadly ignorant is getting personal on such an issue...

wasn't sadly ignorant.. however, a bit harsh.

[TumikSmacker]

The general population doesn't even know about linux or anything else. They'll just fork over the money.

[Gentle Fury]

Funny irony considering how much code they've stolen.....(some of which they got in trouble for other stuff they got away with. Gotta love corporate mentality.....do as i say, not as i do.

[zzacmann]

Having worked as a PC Repairman/Technician, I can say that MS is bringing this upon themselves. Alot of people that use stolen/pirated software are using it on machines that originally came with Windows OSs. But MS doesnt supply any windows discs with new computers and PC manufacturers rarely provide any kind of recovery media anymore. So if your computer that came with Windows XP screws up or the hard drive fails, guess what, you have to buy a new version of Windows XP for $200 or order recovery discs from the manufacturer for $20-$50 which will take about 2 weeks to arrive. Thats horseshit!

Your new computer comes with Windows XP and even has the official MS hologram sticker with product key on the side, yet when something goes wrong with your computer, you cant fix it without a disc which MS doesnt give you.

Yes, most PC manufacturers include a recovery partition on their computers now, but that doesnt help anybody when those partitions are infected or the whole hard drive fails. And yes, you can usually make recovery discs, but a: most people dont do it because they dont know that they need to and b: you can only make them once, so if something happens to those discs on the off chance that you even made them in the first place, ha ha screwed again.

I think that MS should allow people to use Windows CD's on any computer they want as long as they enter the valid product key on the side of their computer. I think that if it came on the computer you've bought, you've technically bought the OS, so you shouldn't have to buy it again. If you do have to buy it again due to technical problems, thats MS stealing from you. Yet, they only care if its the other way around.

[Gentle Fury]

Having worked as a PC Repairman/Technician, I can say that MS is bringing this upon themselves. Alot of people that use stolen/pirated software are using it on machines that originally came with Windows OSs. But MS doesnt supply any windows discs with new computers and PC manufacturers rarely provide any kind of recovery media anymore. So if your computer that came with Windows XP screws up or the hard drive fails, guess what, you have to buy a new version of Windows XP for $200 or order recovery discs from the manufacturer for $20-$50 which will take about 2 weeks to arrive. Thats horseshit!

Your new computer comes with Windows XP and even has the official MS hologram sticker with product key on the side, yet when something goes wrong with your computer, you cant fix it without a disc which MS doesnt give you.

Yes, most PC manufacturers include a recovery partition on their computers now, but that doesnt help anybody when those partitions are infected or the whole hard drive fails. And yes, you can usually make recovery discs, but a: most people dont do it because they dont know that they need to and b: you can only make them once, so if something happens to those discs on the off chance that you even made them in the first place, ha ha screwed again.

I think that MS should allow people to use Windows CD's on any computer they want as long as they enter the valid product key on the side of their computer. I think that if it came on the computer you've bought, you've technically bought the OS, so you shouldn't have to buy it again. If you do have to buy it again due to technical problems, thats MS stealing from you. Yet, they only care if its the other way around.

That is a very valid point! I know with dell computers unless you remember to check off (and pay an extra $10) for the backup disk, you dont get it! Does that mean your computer is disposable? One problem with it and you have to buy a new one? One virus and you have to send it back the manufacturer to do what you could do yourself.

Good ole M$ always out to grub that extra buck. But think of it this way too, they release a whole new version of Winblows every couple years! And they are oh so clever about it, making it so you have to get the new version to use certain features.....XP will not support DX10, your going to have to go shell out money for Vista!! Woo Hoo.....like they dont already make enough money on their software monopoly they have to actually charge you to USE YOUR COMPUTER?? The OS is supposed to do nothing more than allow your system to operate (thus the name)...nothing more!! I don't want all the stupid eye candy...and the 3 GB of help files.....Did you know that each version of Windows contains unused code from vitually every version of windows......thats why it is such a bloated mass of crap....

So your response to this is....Well if you hate it, use linux.....yeah, theres my dream, an OS with no support....yah. M$ needs to get their head out of their asses and realize they make enough money with their productivity software, games, and consoles that they don't need to charge for their OS and they need to make it OPEN SOURCE!! Meaning more people to fix all the bugs!

I hate monopoly companies!

[mech7]

hmm well these people where making money of pirated software.. but it does kinda contradicts to what bill once said..

“ As long as people are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours."

[Papa Lazarou]

When my old computer died, and I replaced the defective parts, I had to buy Windows again, because the old Windows disk would no longer work as it was tied in to the old manufacturer. I was severely tempted to seek out a pirated version, because I felt like I was being forced to buy the same thing twice. But I bought it anyway... and hated them for it.

Of course one problem with the software business model is that unlike, say a car, software doesn't wear out, and if decades old software still does the job well enough for you, why change it? So if they're going to stay in business, it's in their interests to keep coming up with new reasons to sell you the same thing over and over.

[Gentle Fury]

When my old computer died, and I replaced the defective parts, I had to buy Windows again, because the old Windows disk would no longer work as it was tied in to the old manufacturer. I was severely tempted to seek out a pirated version, because I felt like I was being forced to buy the same thing twice. But I bought it anyway... and hated them for it.

Of course one problem with the software business model is that unlike, say a car, software doesn't wear out, and if decades old software still does the job well enough for you, why change it? So if they're going to stay in business, it's in their interests to keep coming up with new reasons to sell you the same thing over and over.


Or of course create something new for a change.....no, thats too much work.

[zzacmann]

I remember the good old days when computers you bought from the store came with actual Windows CDs. And you could use that one disc to install Windows on all of the computers in your house. Good times. Good times. That was one reason why I didnt make the switch to XP until mid 2004.

Anyway, I'd be interested to see some numbers detailing piracy of MS goods in 2006, under the one $200 disc/ one computer policy, as opposed to 1996, under the one disc (that came with your computer)/ that can be used on all of your computers policy. I'd be willing to bet that the numbers havent changed much despite all the restrictions MS now puts on their products. On the other hand, screwing customers out of Windows discs has probably made piracy go up a considerable bit instead of down.

[Badllarma]

I remember the good old days when computers you bought from the store came with actual Windows CDs. And you could use that one disc to install Windows on all of the computers in your house. Good times. Good times. That was one reason why I didnt make the switch to XP until mid 2004.

Anyway, I'd be interested to see some numbers detailing piracy of MS goods in 2006, under the one $200 disc/ one computer policy, as opposed to 1996, under the one disc (that came with your computer)/ that can be used on all of your computers policy. I'd be willing to bet that the numbers havent changed much despite all the restrictions MS now puts on their products. On the other hand, screwing customers out of Windows discs has probably made piracy go up a considerable bit instead of down.

I so totally agree with this every one I know has had simlar problems I remmber working on a video once and had problems with the drive contacted the manufacture of the PC and asked for my disc (after all I had the licence on the side of the PC).

Them "No sorry, we don't ship the discs, you will have to send the base unit back to us"

Me "You don't understand I need this ASAP as I'm working on a project at present, what time scale are we lo0king at getting it back?"

Them "three weeks at present"

Me "Forget it" phone down............................................

[Ghostscape]

hmm well these people where making money of pirated software.. but it does kinda contradicts to what bill once said..

“ As long as people are going to steal it, we want them to steal ours."

When did he say that?

Personally, I say good for them, because these were 26 people/businesses selling pirate copies, most likely passing it off as legitimate copies. It's not like this was people pirating for personal use, but rather people reselling it.

And on the "free alternatives" OpenOffice and Firefox are freakin' awesome. The GIMP is nice but more comparable to PS Elements or PaintShopPro then Photoshop or Painter.

Since when can't you use a Windows XP disk to install Windows on multiple machines? You need different keys but the info is the same provided they're the same version (Pro, Home, Media Center, Rainbow Death Beam). I have a student copy for one machine and an OEM that came with another and the disks are interchangable, despite looking different.

CD keys are not tied to the physical disk in any way.

I don't know about the whole Dell thing with no disks provided, but there are plenty of manufacturers that still ship discs, so vote with your dollar and buy from someone who includes the disks at no charge.

[zzacmann]

CD keys are not tied to the physical disk in any way.



No, but the product keys given to customers with new computers are OEM Product Keys. So even if you have a real Windows XP Disc, the product key on the side of your computer wont work. You have to enter the product key that comes with your Windows XP disc, which as we all know, can only be activated on ONE computer. So if you've already used that disc to install Windows XP on a different computer, that ideas out the window (pun intended).

You even have to enter a non-OEM product key even if your using a Windows XP disc to do a REPAIR on a OEM Windows XP installation. Rediculous!

[ihavenofish]

http://download.microsoft.com/download/b/a/b/babc90a1-b794-4a94-84f5-cbc37827ddca/End-User_Media_Replacement_Form.pdf

$30... but beats a kick in the teeth.
cant really pin any blame on MS for this one really. oem's like dell pay like $40 or less for windows. they are also trying to sell pc's at 5% mark ups. tacking $10 on the box for media just loses them customers. cause lets face it, customers are cheap bastards :)

im fine with microsofts efforts to stop piracy. i find their validation annoying, but no more annoying than any other software. just look ant the elaborate anti piracy measures on 3d software.

i do have to note though that i find microsoft to have pretty good support. far better than what ive experienced with apple, hp and autodesk. if you have an issue (like a missing oem disc), the solution is usually a mouse click away. if you arent trying to do anything illegal, youve got nothing to worry about.

later

[Kabab]

Just remember the cost of retraining staff to use freeware software would cost more then buying legit copies :)

There are many people who are not pro computer uses and it takes them months/years to get comfortable with word/excel etc... Imagine trying to teach these people a completely new OS with different terminalogy and interface.

[Samo]

Just remember the cost of retraining staff to use freeware software would cost more then buying legit copies

I don't agree. People used to work with computers can get used to work with new systems in little time.

You don't need to get special training for using OpenOffice or Firefox if you've used Microsoft products before.

Linux can be used by trained users and prosumers straight away.

[Kabab]

freakin double post >_<

[Kabab]

Don't compare other users to yourself..

Being a 3d guy you have probably spent thousands of hours on computers probably grown up on them.

I bet many of these people are very low end users sectaries etc.

Have you every worked in largish corperate company who's main job isn't IT/Computer related?

[CIM]

Go get 'em!

[pixelmonk]

I don't agree. People used to work with computers can get used to work with new systems in little time.

You don't need to get special training for using OpenOffice or Firefox if you've used Microsoft products before.

Linux can be used by trained users and prosumers straight away.

not true. Large corporations spend thousands to get employees up to speed on Excel, Access, Outlook and Word. While WordPefect may do the same thing as Word, it isn't Word. Those corporations will in fact pay for WordPefect training... and in your case, OpenOffice training, regardless of it's basic functionality comparisons to Word. The other issue many corporations face is support. Some would rather pay for the product as well as support for it, regardless if there is a "freeware" product that can do the same. It's a lot easier to get a hold of a regional MS rep (or tech support) than it is for a corporation's IT department to scour forums and newsgroups hoping to get an answer. Yes, corporations do pay for that warm and fuzzy feeling.

How do I know this? Because I worked for a large corporation for 9 years who had Access, Excel, Word, Outlook and other application training classes each month. The government contracts I was on had government employees taking those same classes at the gov't facility either by a MS certified trainer, or by a MS rep themself. Granted, there are large companies who made the move to Linux.. good for them. But many companies won't upset their current IT architecture just to save a few bucks and get limited support (compared to MS's support).

[pixelmonk]

When my old computer died, and I replaced the defective parts, I had to buy Windows again, because the old Windows disk would no longer work as it was tied in to the old manufacturer. I was severely tempted to seek out a pirated version, because I felt like I was being forced to buy the same thing twice. But I bought it anyway... and hated them for it.
.

why hate them for that? They licensed the copy to the manufacturer who then licensed it to you. Unless the manufactuer created their own version of a Windows install disk, it should have worked regardless of what new PC or parts were used. Had you bought the copy of XP yourself you wouldn't have had problems. It's not MS' fault.. it's the OEM who decided to be cutesy. Hate them.

[pixelmonk]

double post.. thanks CG Talk servers.

[mech7]

MS should not allow more then 3 different parts through their activation.. a new mobo can really **** things up. Usually calling them when it does not activate is enough though, as they give you a new activation.. but it is kinda ghey that they tie the activation process to your hardware configuration.

why hate them for that? They licensed the copy to the manufacturer who then licensed it to you. Unless the manufactuer created their own version of a Windows install disk, it should have worked regardless of what new PC or parts were used. Had you bought the copy of XP yourself you wouldn't have had problems. It's not MS' fault.. it's the OEM who decided to be cutesy. Hate them.

[mech7]

OpenOffice 2.0 interface is pretty much identical to MS Office so there is no learning curve.. also have you ever tried support for office lol :) trust me you prolly get better help on forums from a community then some guy sitting behind the phone.

Also if you want you can pay for commercial support but it is your choice :) Usually the investments being made with opensource software comes from larger companies who benefit from it or who need support.

not true. Large corporations spend thousands to get employees up to speed on Excel, Access, Outlook and Word. While WordPefect may do the same thing as Word, it isn't Word. Those corporations will in fact pay for WordPefect training... and in your case, OpenOffice training, regardless of it's basic functionality comparisons to Word. The other issue many corporations face is support. Some would rather pay for the product as well as support for it, regardless if there is a "freeware" product that can do the same. It's a lot easier to get a hold of a regional MS rep (or tech support) than it is for a corporation's IT department to scour forums and newsgroups hoping to get an answer. Yes, corporations do pay for that warm and fuzzy feeling.

How do I know this? Because I worked for a large corporation for 9 years who had Access, Excel, Word, Outlook and other application training classes each month. The government contracts I was on had government employees taking those same classes at the gov't facility either by a MS certified trainer, or by a MS rep themself. Granted, there are large companies who made the move to Linux.. good for them. But many companies won't upset their current IT architecture just to save a few bucks and get limited support (compared to MS's support).

[AlexC]

OpenOffice 2.0 interface is pretty much identical to MS Office so there is no learning curve.. also have you ever tried support for office lol :) trust me you prolly get better help on forums from a community then some guy sitting behind the phone.

Also if you want you can pay for commercial support but it is your choice :)

Agreed, I usualy get support for any problem big or small via forums within 10 mins, even less than in an IRC channel. Good luck to doing that with a 'fully trained commercial support worker' for free.

OpenOffice's interface is identicaly pretty much as Mech7 said, sure things may _sometimes_ be in a different place or called a different thing, but if you actaully spend more than 5 mins with it, it does everything you want....for free.

[pixelmonk]

OpenOffice 2.0 interface is pretty much identical to MS Office so there is no learning curve.. also have you ever tried support for office lol :) trust me you prolly get better help on forums from a community then some guy sitting behind the phone.

Also if you want you can pay for commercial support but it is your choice :) Usually the investments being made with opensource software comes from larger companies who benefit from it or who need support.


that still won't convince many corporations to switch. I know you, Alex, or maybe some other Linux evangelists don't buy into it.. but Microsoft products and support provide comfort to large corporations. The percentage of companies using MS products over OpenOffice is extremely high and as some companies may switch, new companies are formed who will use Microsoft products, so there won't be that much of a percentage change over the next few years.

[pixelmonk]

yawn.. another double post.

[pixelmonk]

Agreed, I usualy get support for any problem big or small via forums within 10 mins, even less than in an IRC channel. Good luck to doing that with a 'fully trained commercial support worker' for free.


having a non-IT user find a forum and post a question, or even have them learn how to use IRC (assuming it has been installed and useable on their system) isn't always an option. Also, the IRC channels are sometimes a bust for newbies. I've used them before for Unbuntu... while trying to set up VPN and no one had a clue what I was talking about. I spend easily an hour reposting my question in the channel to see if anyone knew. Time easily wasted, had I not been playing World of Warcraft (in XP64) while waiting for any response. Granted, an OpenOffice question may be easier to answer, but an IT manager (or office manager) probably doesn't want to make that assumption about an employee trying to get answers to a simple question. What's easy for you, probably isn't going to be that easy for a newbie. That's why companies are willing to use paid Microsoft, Lotus or other yearly support fees. BTW, you can find a lot of answers on Microsoft's KB or MSDN forums.. for free... no luck needed.

[AlexC]

having a non-IT user find a forum and post a question or even have them learn how to use IRC (assuming it has been installed and useable on their system) isn't always an option.
True, not everyone knows that much about computers - but there are help files which lead to many many Wiki's which have solutions to follow easily, and always have links back to the forum somewhere.


BTW, you can find a lot of answers on Microsoft's KB or MSDN forums
"having a non-IT user find a forum" ....... I thought you said non-IT users finding a forum isn't always an option, so that statement is somewhat pointless.

I know you, Alex, or maybe some other Linux evangelists don't buy into it.. but Microsoft products and support provide comfort to large corporations.
Erm, so does Ubuntu Linux - it offers paid commercial support alongside with a huge helpful community.

so there won't be that much of a percentage change over the next few years.
Of course nothing is going to happen over night, but look at Firefox which is FOSS and is already at 10% of the market share.

[pixelmonk]

Companies still won't switch based on a comfort level they assume Microsoft and other larger developers can provide. Hell.. we're still using Lotus and it blows. You can't convince me otherwise... but you have your opinion.. I have mine.

[AlexC]

You can't convince me otherwise... but you have your opinion.. I have mine.

Agree to Disagree?

[pixelmonk]

Agree to Disagree?

definitely! btw, ubuntu was probably the easiest Linux distro I've installed to date. Definitely nice.


cheers!

[VladPascanu]

My girlfriend works all day with MsOffice
The firm where she works decided to switch to Open office on several machines(cutting costs, not upgrading MsOffice) and couple of weeks later they switched back . OOffice may look like MsO but it s not the same (i m not saying that, but one who s worked with it half of it s life).
Open source software isn t always the right choice , and personally i think the expression "the artist not the tool " it s a lot of bsht sometimes, especially when you are in production .

[enygma]

I'll have to agree with Pixelmonk on this issue. We use Microsoft Office throughout the office. Would I ever switch them over to OpenOffice? No. Simply because I am not confident that the 2 suites are EXACTLY the same, and I don't want to be hassled with questions of "how do I do this?" when they are already experts in an app. It is a waste of their time, it is a waste of my time, and I'm not about to throw away a perfectly good application that we paid for in order to re-train the guys on something else, regardless of the costs.

As for the learning curve barely being there... in a large corporation, don't overestimate large groups of barely computer literate people. I have enough fun as it is being the only computer literate person in a team of 5. I don't want to imagine the problems you would have to deal with trying to convert a team of 50+ over to another productivity suite.

With some people, all it will take is a single function to not work the way it does in Office and they will be crying foul and want their Office back. Whether the function works better in OpenOffice or not, the fact that it is different will cause problems and cost in time and sanity.

Everyone that works with me have been trained in Office at school. Most have their PHd's and all I had to do was give them Office and they were happy. I don't get bothered by questions that I don't feel like finding answers for, and we are all happy. They weren't taught OpenOffice or Lotus. They were taught Microsoft Office.

[amfantasy]

If you want support you can get star office. Open office is not going to be a 5 minute change and everyone is going to be come experts, but I don't think its going to be impossible as some people say. The trick is to slowly convert not just jump right in. I'm in high school right now and I we don't even have Microsoft office on our computers, we were given wordperfect, and Star Office and told to learn that. I may be the only one on this forum that can't use M.Office :sad:

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