When corporate takeover fails: Massive Black

[kraal]

this is interesting but brings me to think of something..... james cline and feng zhu formed gamma ray studios.... now i am sure they didnt steal info from ILM... but isnt that where they made initial contacts with studios.... couldn't ILM ( just using that as an example) call foul and say that they are stealing clients.... at some point artist will go freelance or start thier own studios is it wrong to use companies you worked for? I mean there are certain companies that have a strong foothold in the industry and have the bigger paychecks too ... I am just trying to make a point about what could or couldn't be honest movement and not a 'take over'

[Brettzies]

I am just trying to make a point about what could or couldn't be honest movement and not a 'take over'They were accepting bids under "Massive Black's" name but doing the work under the table and keeping the profits, yet still using Massive Black's assests(ie artists, equipment) to do it without Massive Black knowing anything about it...at all. That doesn't sound too honest to me.

If they wanted to leave the "company" and take clients with them, different states have different laws regarding distance and competition but, they should have at least left first and formed their own thing. Sounds like they were trying to do it using Massive Black in some way, assests, artists or whatever. Internationally, I have no idea how that works in terms of competition, client stealing, etc.

It all just sounds very shady to me, but who's to know what the real truth of the matter is. I know what you are saying about people leaving to do their own thing, this just sounds a little twisted though.

[Arrghman]

And also, according to the article...

From Oct. 2005-June 30, 2006, Zhang, Chen and their coconspirators removed more than $100,000 in cash from Massive Black and placed it in a secret account.

If that allegation is true, then there's no way it could simply be an honest misunderstanding!

[P_T]

If that guy is really guilty, I hope he gets what he deserved.

The author of that article really screwed it up in the last paragraph though. What did he mean "a takeover would've shifted labor out of the West and back to the East"? The labour is already in the east with that James guy heading Massive Black's Shanghai branch. It also looks like the defendants are both Chinese Americans.

I really don't see this "greater issues" he's talking about.

[eek]

this is interesting but brings me to think of something..... james cline and feng zhu formed gamma ray studios.... now i am sure they didnt steal info from ILM... but isnt that where they made initial contacts with studios.... couldn't ILM ( just using that as an example) call foul and say that they are stealing clients.... at some point artist will go freelance or start thier own studios is it wrong to use companies you worked for? I mean there are certain companies that have a strong foothold in the industry and have the bigger paychecks too ... I am just trying to make a point about what could or couldn't be honest movement and not a 'take over'

I was thinking just the same - this is healthy competition. If massive black cant keep there clientell. Then massive black needs to look at what there doing.

[erilaz]

I was thinking just the same - this is healthy competition. If massive black cant keep there clientell. Then massive black needs to look at what there doing.

No, this is not the case at all.

The Massive Black Shanghai studio was set up to expand the business. What was allegedly happening was James was skimming money off the budgets to start his own studio, and was trying to take the people employed there with him.

If James had gone off to start his own studio independantly that would have been fine, but he was allegedly doing it by lifting money from Massive Black under the guise of helping with their new branch.

That is not healthy competition, that is fraud and embezzlement. Nothing will be proven of course until all the facts come to light, but it looks pretty nasty to me.


The Massive Black team can't make comment on any of this right now as they are involved in the suit, but it is being pursued thoroughly.

[CGmonkey]

This was not a good step for such a cool company.. ;)

[dunkelzahn]

*cleaned to prevent a lockdown*

[Njen]

*cleaned to prevent a lockdown*

[dunkelzahn]

*cleaned to prevent a lockdown*

[CupOWonton]

PLEASE read the WHOLE DOCUMENT. Wile WORKING with Massive Black they were reporting inflated numbers and skimming off the difference for their own uses. They essentialy stole from the company, and then started re-directing the clients to their own buisness... wile still USING Massive Black's own computers to get the job done. Thats VERY illegal.

Why Have I never heard of these 2 people? And why cant I seem to find websites? Usualy artists who are going to work at a place like Massive Black are going to have websites.

[apocalypse2012]

I don't think dunkelzahn was off base in making that association. The fact that they had American Citizenship means nothing. Nothing. Being a Citizen of China may mean something, or Mexico. But it means nothing to be an American. Its a distinction that my Government will gladly whore out for the smallest of reward or political gain.

The idea of anti-american americans or americans that consider themselves another nationality first or by loyalty is not the exception. Not any more. America is dead. We sold it out for cheap Walmart junk made in China. For cheap lawn care, and nannies we could pay under the table. Its not racist. Its just the realisation that others have something to be loyal to, and we don't anymore. Even our so called conservative patriotic leaders wave the flag off the front porch while selling our national heritage out the back door.

But I digress... please continue.

[-Sai-]

*cleaned to prevent a lockdown*

[Equinoxx]

nothing personal, but I had to do some cleaning since it was heading downwards fast.

[-Sai-]

nothing personal, but I had to do some cleaning since it was heading downwards fast.

Thank you Equinoxx.:)

[jason manley]

All Massive Black Inc. shareholders and founding partners have thought long and hard about bringing this action. We believe in this case and are going to pursue it aggressively until it is fully resolved. Massive Black will tirelessly protect it's intellectual property, trade-secrets and business within all capabilities of the law.

Massive Black;Shanghai and Massive Black: San Francisco are totally on-track. Our production is 100% on schedule (all milestones are being met early or on time), and we are working on a host of fantastic new projects received in the past few weeks. Both the 2D and 3D departments are firing on all cylinders - and we are in hiring mode.

The sentiment around here is onward and upward. We are announcing the Concept Art Academy this week which is a 2 year concept design atelier program headed up by Massive Black Inc. and ConceptArt.Org. And, we are launching another North American Workshop here in San Francisco. We have brought on two new concept artists and now have the largest concept team in the entertainment industry. Our large, professional, 3d team is expandning as is our top-flight animation crew. We will have a major company announcement shortly regarding our new growth in the next few days.

We will not let a matter like this distract us from our upward momentum and positive outlook. There is plenty of good news about our company as anyone can see. We are unified and moving forward as always.

If and when our attorney's advise us that we can speak more on the legal matter at hand, we will do so. For now, I am unable to comment further.


Best,


Jason Manley

[My Fault]

Sorry to see you are going through this garbage Jason. You are a crazy talented hombre and the people you are working with are some of the most freakish talents out there, plus you are one of the nicest people I have ever met. The Concept Art workshops are truly some of the most enjoyable, inspirational and educational things I have ever attended.

Look forward to seeing more from Massive Black in the future. Keep up the phenomenal work!

[FloydBishop]

Best of luck in putting all this behind you and getting back to making some great content.

[EricLyman]

Best of luck in putting all this behind you and getting back to making some great content.

Quoted for agreement, hope it all works out for the best. I've been a fan of the studio for a while now.

[eek]

No, this is not the case at all.

The Massive Black Shanghai studio was set up to expand the business. What was allegedly happening was James was skimming money off the budgets to start his own studio, and was trying to take the people employed there with him.

If James had gone off to start his own studio independantly that would have been fine, but he was allegedly doing it by lifting money from Massive Black under the guise of helping with their new branch.

That is not healthy competition, that is fraud and embezzlement. Nothing will be proven of course until all the facts come to light, but it looks pretty nasty to me.


The Massive Black team can't make comment on any of this right now as they are involved in the suit, but it is being pursued thoroughly.

Ah! the b&stard! Yes basically its theft.

[RobertoOrtiz]

Lets keep politics off thread.

It is against forum rules, and there are other places to discuss them
-R

[Pinoy McGee]

Why Have I never heard of these 2 people?

You're not hanging with the right crowd, but not offense to cgtalk, eh eh eh. (hint: read Jason's post to find out where :))

[soulburn3d]

this is interesting but brings me to think of something..... james cline and feng zhu formed gamma ray studios.... now i am sure they didnt steal info from ILM... but isnt that where they made initial contacts with studios.... couldn't ILM

Just wanted to make a small correction, those two worked for George Lucas at the Ranch as part of Lucasfilm. LucasFilm and ILM are very different entities, they just happened to be owned by the same person.

- Neil

[Kanga]

Good but unpleasant wakeup call.
These people got caught but I wonder how many unscrupulous characters are getting away with stuff like this?:eek:

Yuk.

[EricLyman]

Good but unpleasant wakeup call.
These people got caught but I wonder how many unscrupulous characters are getting away with stuff like this?:eek:

Yuk.

Well hopefully not too often! Bidding for work under the table and using company employees to do the work is just asking to be busted, if you ask me. All it takes is the client calling the wrong person and the word is out. Not to mention all the other people involved in the process, such as the artists.

I had a co-worker when I was working at a pizza joint during high school who did the same thing with pizzas. Working late night, 'selling' pizza and pocketing the cash. More or less the same crime, except he wasn't going to use the money to start a new pizza shop.

[Stonepilot]

WOW. Unbelievable. I still remember when Jason first announced massive black on conceptart.org. Reading the article its pretty discouraging to see this happen to them. As an artist I know how hard it must have been to start off massive black and build it up from the ground up. Its sad to see people try to step in an undermined them and pretty much F---k them over. Good luck to massive black they've paid their dues. Suck to hear this.

[EricLyman]

doublepost - please delete

[RobertoOrtiz]

Well if the allegations are proven to be true, then these guys deserve to hanged.


I mean who in his right mind would steal money from the company they are working on to fund their new company? I mean, sweet jebus.

Good lord.

-R

[EricLyman]

triplepost!

[EricLyman]

quadruplepost! damn servers...

[soulburn3d]

I mean who in his right mind would steal money from the company they are working on to fund their new company?

Actually, I know at least one other industry related company that this has happened to in the past 5 years, so it's probably more common than you'd think.

- Neil

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