UGAC- Master Chamber- Rules

[DevilHacker]

Q: Where is the Front Page Plug?A: It will be up in an few hours. We decided to wait an moment or so to get any basic questions answered before the masses of fellow CGTalkers’ flood the competition thread. Hopefully answering the majority of the questions before they are asked. [Edit: Its up now. Thanks Equinoxx]
Q: That Poly Count seems really low… Why was such an number chosen, it doesn’t seem to be very “Next-Gen”?A: The specs it looks like we are shooting at are high end current gen, mid-end next gen (xbox 360, PS3). If you stop to think about it, 20,000 is really the sweet spot; while it is low enough to not be daunting; it is high enough to get impressive results; while at the same time being not ultra-time consuming (IE: More people theoretically finish). I understand the questions about the polys. But, those are around normal with PC games such as Battlefield 2, Half Life2, and Doom3... Remember, this is ONE area. If you think it is low, make the room smaller... It is all up to you

Check it out...[Link (http://games.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ea-games/misc/bf2modpolycountguidelines.doc)]

Q: How is voting done?A: Voting is preformed by designated judges. Each Judge is given six (6) points to distribute among the contestants who have finished their projects. (Note: For your entry to be judged, it must be posted in the “submissions” thread) Each judge will critique each entry and then award 1st-3rd place. First place will receive three (3) points, second place will receive two (2) points, and third place will receive one (1) point. This process will be preformed an minimum of three times by different judges, and then be tallied, with the places announced soon after.


Q: What do I win if I get 1st place?A: 1st place winner will be able to choose the topic of the next challenge. They will also get their worked "plugged" on the front page. Q: Do I need to model an interior or not?A: 100% yes.Q: What type of texture types are allowed?
A: We allow all types of textures to let people focus on overall design and lighting. But, please remember, that what textures you use will be considered when judging entries. So; just because one entry uses the latest and greatest in HDRI rendering, while another uses only bump mapping, the more advance entry will not win automatically. The whole entry is judged.

Q: Are we talking about uncompressed texture space, or DX5 compressed textures?
A: Uncompressed.



-More to come soon-
:thumbsup:

[Ghostscape]

Can we clarify what type of compression is okay? Are we talking about uncompressed texture space, or DX5 compressed textures? DX5 compression works on a graphics card, whereas other types do not, to my knowledge. DDS tools for loading/saving and viewing in 3dsmax can be found at http://developer.nvidia.com/page/tools.html , I'm sure there are similar plugins for lightwave, maya, etc.

[Auctane]

if anyone is interested in linking Master Chambers after the end of the challenge in either Quake 4 or UT2004 for a deathmatch level, I might be interested so let me know.

I am excited for this one!

[Ghostscape]

Let's get this on the front page already :D

[RO]

wow I think I am in this comp :) That is if I can make time from my currenty highpoly project.

Cool stuff. Looks fun. This time Ill normal map everything hehe :D

Edit: Specs seem fine for one room btw

[GradiusCancer]

Sounds like a great idea, and I really hope to find time for this one. Downside being, this is exactly what I'm doing at work! GAH!

[HellBoy]

Ow I have a interesting idea. Hope I get time for it too.

Best of luck to everyone

[AndrewRaZ]

so here's a few questions regarding this challenge:

i hate to be a pain and ask for a little more clarification regarding "uncompressed" textures, but does that mean uncompressed in tga format, or tiff, or jpg, or, just any format that does not utilize hardware compression? the difference between tga and jpg in terms of size can be substatial.

how are effects considered in terms of the technical limitations? will particle effects, light projections, etc, be counted in the polygon count?

[aesir]

I need some enviro art. Im in!

[DevilHacker]

Let's get this on the front page already :DDone.
Everyone thank Equinoxx when you see him around the forums. He is the one responsible for plugging the thread and helping cleaning up the old challenge.

Thanks Equinoxx. (AKA: The supermod!)
:thumbsup:

[FirstManOnMars]

Are noobs to this forum allowed? I tried starting a submission thread and it didnt appear.

[Seebaer]

is it possible to use all the 20k polys for only one shot, so the whole scene isn't really a closed room!?

because i don't like to waste polys for things that aren't seen in the final shot. or do we have to post multible shots of the interior?

[FirstManOnMars]

NM, I just read the FAQ.. uh, if an admin sees this please help me out! Thanks.

[aesir]

I think the idea is to have a full enviro designed rather than just a mockup, so I'd imagine you'd need multiple shots to show it all off.

[erilaz]

Does the 20,000 include instancing?

[Stefan-Morrell]

cool challenge,the texture specs look good too,nice to see a mb limit instead of dimension limits

:thumbsup: good luck to everyone!

[Ghostscape]

Does the 20,000 include instancing?
Yes.
so here's a few questions regarding this challenge:

i hate to be a pain and ask for a little more clarification regarding "uncompressed" textures, but does that mean uncompressed in tga format, or tiff, or jpg, or, just any format that does not utilize hardware compression? the difference between tga and jpg in terms of size can be substatial.

how are effects considered in terms of the technical limitations? will particle effects, light projections, etc, be counted in the polygon count?
Here's a hint: tga, jpg, and tiff all have compression!

Save as a bmp if you want to figure out the uncompressed size, or use this handy dandy cheat sheet:

512x512 RGBA = 1 meg
1024x1024 RGBA = 4 megs
256x256 RGBA = 256 KB

Basically, for every channel, you take the area as the number of bytes in the channel, and then multiply that by the number of channels.

But it's really much easier just to save them as .bmps because those are uncompressed. tiff can use LZW compression, tgas use LZW and I think other stuff, jpg uses jpeg compression, etc. Avoid those and save as bmp.

[eagle4]

i was wondering with what we need to do are we able to fill the room with stuff? i mean possibly computers, machines etc. also are they included in the poly limit? and is there any genre we need to try to stick to? scifi or medievil etc?

still not sure which way i will go with this so thats why i am asking for clarification



eagle4

[JuddWack]

I'm sure it is ok to populate the room with objects. 20,000 polys for a few walls, a ceiling and a floor would be a pretty boring game.

Any genre is ok.

As for instancing, of course it's 20,000 including instancing. If it was before instancing then technically there would be no poly limit which would cause the game to crash.

[CGmonkey]

So you're actually implying that we can't use any form of compression that has been used in games since the crack of dawn?

If so, there goes my entry.

[erilaz]

So you're actually implying that we can't use any form of compression that has been used in games since the crack of dawn?

If so, there goes my entry.

Compression is fine and dandy for your disk space, but since textures are uncompressed when they are processed by the video card you need to take that into consideration.

[Auctane]

It would appear that the 'no compression' slipped past me. So what exactly is a 'non compressed' file format? bmp? I dont think I have saved a bmp in over 10 years.

My knowledge of how graphics cards work is very limited.

I just wanted to make game art.

[chenzhi1981]

This is my oilpicture , Pls give me instrction , thanks


http://www.chinadv.com/forum/Web/UpFiles/2006/7/9/44194351.jpg

[FirstManOnMars]

Aaaand, out of left field...

I think this is the wrong forum for oil painting critiques chenzi1981

Try posting that guy in: Art Techniques and Theories (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=166)

Nice painting though :)

[Titan369]

though it is a very nice oil chenzhi1981,good work.

[broli4000]

I got really confused, because in the pdf that was downloadable. it says 1,000 triangle limit, then on the main post it says 20,000 triangle limit. In either event here is my submition for the contest. 13,000 triangles!


If anyone finds anything wrong with the way i posted it, let me know!

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/147145/147145_1152993773_large.jpg

[Seebaer]

@broli4000

you have to open a thread for your submissions, which fits the critics mentioned in the starting post.

[broli4000]

ahhh ok thanks

[Oink]

Aaaand, out of left field...

I think this is the wrong forum for oil painting critiques chenzi1981

Try posting that guy in: Art Techniques and Theories (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=166)

Nice painting though :)This is gold, Gold i tells ya.

ANyway, Im thinking of entering the contest. Im a bit lost when it comes to that uncompressed texture-space-thingy though.

[ASWDesign]

Rules on joint entry?

ie 2 people working on one project?

[Ghostscape]

This is gold, Gold i tells ya.

ANyway, Im thinking of entering the contest. Im a bit lost when it comes to that uncompressed texture-space-thingy though.

An image is nothing more than an array (grid) of color values. Each color value (Red, Green, Blue, Alpha) is a byte (8 bits. this means 256 possible shades of each color).

When you compress an image you run it through an algorithm that cuts out information. To uncompress and display an image, you need to run it back through that algorithm. Since that takes processing power, it is faster to simply store the texture uncompressed on the card, so you aren't wasting gpu cycles decompressing an image.

Hence, why you only get 10megs uncompressed. Because 10 megs compressed could be 100 megs on the card.

DXT5 compression is actually supported by modern (DX8 and up I believe?) video cards, and offers compression that you can put on the card, but since not all cards support that, and some consoles don't, etc, DH decided to limit it to uncompressed texture space.

But you probably just want to know how to figure out how much space your uncompressed texture takes up.

TO FIND OUT HOW BIG YOUR UNCOMPRESSED TEXTURE FILE IS
SIMPLY SAVE IT AS A .BMP BITMAP FILE.

[180gee]

Yes.


512x512 RGBA = 1 meg
1024x1024 RGBA = 4 megs
256x256 RGBA = 256 KB



So this means I could use only one 1024x1024 + normal map and one 512x512 + normal map texture?! In my opinion this is WAY too low for 20,000 tris.

Here's the analysis of a room in Half-Life 2

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f206/180gee/hl2room.jpg

1. 512x512 diffuse map + 512x512 normal map = 2mb
2. 512 dif + 512 nm = 2mb
3. 512 dif = 1mb
4. 256 dif = 256 kb
5. 256 dif = 256 kb
6. 512 dif = 1mb
7. 256 dif = 256 kb
8. 512 dif + 512 nm = 2mb
9. 256 dif = 256 kb
10. 512 dif = 1mb
11. 512 dif = 1mb
12. 256 dif = 256 kb
13. 256 dif = 256 kb
14. 256 dif = 256 kb

Total is more than 12mb (I didn't count all the textures in the room and I didn't count the specular, alpha and illumination maps)

Please note that this is a very small, boring and empty room, far from being a fancy "Master Chamber". HL2 is almost 2 years old and compared to games like FEAR it's more "last-gen" than "current-gen".

I really hope you guys could give us a higher texture limit that makes more sense.

[neurobasics]

trading poly count for texture space would be not a bad idea: 100 poly's : 1 mb texture or something.
or triangles.. whichever.

[Ghostscape]

I personally would like to see the texture space increased to 20 megs myself, but I think a lot can be done with 10 megs.

[Auctane]

or just allow us to use the same-ol texture formats we have been using for the last decade?

Really though, I thought that it was 10 MB of textures, not these mysterious 'uncompressed' textures I keep hearing about. I typically want to avoid a tech talk conversations at all cost, but are you guys sure video cards uncompress png, tga, jpg, etc files it is sent? It doesn't seem logical to me that so much effort goes/has gone into optimizing textures if that all goes out the window anyway.

[AndrewRaZ]

I personally would like to see the texture space increased to 20 megs myself, but I think a lot can be done with 10 megs.

i agree. 10 megs gets used up pretty quickly with uncompressed textures.

[Ghostscape]

or just allow us to use the same-ol texture formats we have been using for the last decade?

Really though, I thought that it was 10 MB of textures, not these mysterious 'uncompressed' textures I keep hearing about. I typically want to avoid a tech talk conversations at all cost, but are you guys sure video cards uncompress png, tga, jpg, etc files it is sent? It doesn't seem logical to me that so much effort goes/has gone into optimizing textures if that all goes out the window anyway.

Yes it uncompresses all of those formats. It will read/use compressed .dds files, and they don't upsample paletted images, but a jpg has to be uncompressed before it's dropped on the card.

[Stefan-Morrell]

I'm holding out starting this untill we can hear for sure that the texture specs are set in stone.

180gee makes some good points about HL2,


Devilhacker..anychance of using more textures?
is 10mb uncompressed an average for a game environment like this?

when saving .bmp from Photoshop the only bit depths on offer are 16 & up,game engines can palletise them to 8 bit which I'm guessing would make them smaller
my questions is, how do I save a bmp in 8bit?...how do I know what the size of an 8bit tex is in mb?

[Stefan-Morrell]

heh..this discussion must be fairly common in game development,texture artists pleading for more space..more mb..
...more,more,more!

[StickFigure]

or just allow us to use the same-ol texture formats we have been using for the last decade?

Really though, I thought that it was 10 MB of textures, not these mysterious 'uncompressed' textures I keep hearing about. I typically want to avoid a tech talk conversations at all cost, but are you guys sure video cards uncompress png, tga, jpg, etc files it is sent? It doesn't seem logical to me that so much effort goes/has gone into optimizing textures if that all goes out the window anyway.

The fact that every single video game out there uses texture compression (it would be literally insane not too) is not the issue. This is a contest where everyones work needs to be compared side by side using the same amount of polygons and texture resolution. There are lots of different compression formats, so going uncompressed is the only way to make sure everyone gets the same amount of pixels. And you will be suprised how far 10 megs of texture resolution gets you. Thats 40 256x256 textures, which is more then enough for 20k polys. In fact, the poly limit really what is going to make this difficult. If I had to budget this out for a game I was working on then I would definately drop my texture memory to make room for a little extra geometry.

[Auctane]

anyone feel like telling me how the I/O system of a graphics card works?

We discussed all this beforehand and the general opinion was 5mb optimized...? I doubled it in my suggestion to DH because I thought it would be cool to see a comp that didn't really have restrictions other than to stop people from getting in too deep and not finish. I have NO IDEA where the uncompressed part came from. I PM'd Devilhacker about it Friday but as many of us know he has been busy.

If I had it my way:
For the most part the judges in the past are smart and know when you waste texture, have uneven textures, waste polies and so on. A rock solid, well designed PSP model can kick ass compared to a poorly designed hacked out high-def model. More specs doesn't make your design any better. Do you really need to be assigned limits, or can you manage on your own and put faith into the judges to determine weather you were smart about your usage or not?

[ASWDesign]

hey all this talk about textures, im very new when it comes to creating game-anything, so i normaly save my textures out as targa, just wondering what you have to save your textures out in?

[180gee]

Thats 40 256x256 textures, which is more then enough for 20k polys.

The FAQ says

The specs it looks like we are shooting at are high end current gen, mid-end next gen (xbox 360, PS3)

256x256 textures were common in games maybe 5 years ago.

The "texture-poly ratio" just isn't realistic. The HL2 room I showed above has less than 5000 triangles and next-gen games are even more likely to have an higher amount of textures per poly because modern stuff like physics and stencil shadows can be very budget consuming if the poly count is high.

I would recommend a texture limit around 80mb (uncompressed) if you guys want to stick to the (mid-end) next-gen specs. That equals about ten 1024x1024 diffuse + normalmap textures. I know this sounds ridiculously high at first, but it's quite normal for games nowadays.

[ASWDesign]

.........................what do i bloody save my as? tiff,jpg what? they are all types of compresstion god answer the question damit.

ASW

[Titan369]

so could we save out one texture as a .bmp to show the size of the texture then save out another file as a jpeg or what not and use those in the level and just keep track of out bmp until they add up to 10mb. Would this way work?

[JuddWack]

ASWDesign, you might be awsome at CG but you won't make friends here with that attitude. Have you tried reading through the 3 pages yet? Keep track of your uncompressed texture space by saving at bmp. It couldn't have been said any clearer than this:


TO FIND OUT HOW BIG YOUR UNCOMPRESSED TEXTURE FILE IS
SIMPLY SAVE IT AS A .BMP BITMAP FILE.

Titan,
You could do that, although I'm not really sure why. Would it increase render time? I don't know, but if not I would just suggest sticking with the .bmps. It will just minimize your work flow and save some time.

BTW I know I'm doing a lot of talking here and have no thread yet. I got friends visiting me tomorrow and will be staying for about 10 days. Maybe I will begin this challenge when they leave. I'll be checking out all the WIPs though.

[Stefan-Morrell]

so could we save out one texture as a .bmp to show the size of the texture then save out another file as a jpeg or what not and use those in the level and just keep track of out bmp until they add up to 10mb. Would this way work?

I dont think there's any point in doing that,if we have to save as .bmp to see the file size then you may aswell use the .bmp in the level

[Stefan-Morrell]

here's a brief test to see what kind of limits we have
saved as 16 bit .bmp from photoshop

still wondering how to make them 8bit though as that should also take the file size down

[JuddWack]

Not sure about this at all, but isn't 8bit bmp a greyscale image?

[Titan369]

cool, thanks guys, yea, i will just use the bmp then. And thank you Stefan-Morrell for the list as well, that will be very helpfull when i start figuring up my textures.

[sheppyboy2000]

You know, I was needing an interior for my first video game anyway. This is a great chance to to try and show off some skills while serving a purpose. And who knows? I may actually win. Doubtful, but still.

[sheppyboy2000]

Also, does it HAVE to be bitmap? I tend to have a preference for .rgb. Just because I'm not sure bitmap does hold alpha.

[Stefan-Morrell]

Not sure about this at all, but isn't 8bit bmp a greyscale image?

yea,I just tried saving a greyscale & 8-bit became available as an option when saving,along with 4-bit,but I've read in a couple game texturing books that game engines can palettise a 24 bit image to 8bit(256 colors)

here's a quote from one of the books "The Dark side of Game texturing" by David Franson


BMP

This is the windows file format,capable of supporting 8-,16-,or 24-bit images.
Some games,such as Half-Life,use this format in 8-bit mode,which is based on a 256 color palette.typically,you create an image in 24-bit color mode;when you save it as a .BMP file,the colors in the image are palettized to 8-bit.
Basically,in a game having 256-bit images is overkill,so having your images converted to 8-bit displays enough colors for the player not to notice--at least for now

although,that book is a couple years old & they arent talking half life2..maybe 16 or 24-bit is the norm these days?


& on that note...what bit depth should a normal map be?

btw,180gee,where did you find that info about the half life2 specs?

[WMBrown]

I'm guessing *before reading the files* that textures are to be in a power of two?

and besides, even though i doubt i'll have the time to do this (as well as the other projects i'm working on atm) that many textures wouldn't be too hard... a lot of textures can be reused *bricks, cement, wallpaper, etc...* and they don't have to be big, you could probably get away with a 256x256 texture with a normal map if the tiling pattern is the right size.

personally, i don't think this is overly restrictive nessessarily... i mean, they did it for games back in the day when Quake was king, and some of those levels were really fun and absolutely beautiful. if they can do it, certainly we all can as well. (even factoring in Spec, Normal and Self-Illum.

[froggy42]

8 bit colour BMPs
are palleted 256 colours.

I can only talk for corelphotopaint,

do your stuff for your textures and export as BMP

re-open BMP, then select image>mode>Palleted(8bit)

another box will open giving you a choice of choosing the new pallet
I usually use optimize, it will depend on how involved the texture is.

test textures have yeilded 258K for a 512x512 tex.

photoshop should have a similar option somewhere.

[ASWDesign]

Sorry for the rude post but it said to check out your texture file sizes in Bitmap so i wasn't quite sure to use bitmaps or not! got quite fustrated.

another question i see alot of people are using blocked out skel characters in there Env why is this? is this a good idea? where can i get one?

ASW

[Auctane]

inserting a character helps indicate scale. yes it is a good idea, I forgot to do so in my blockout... You could make one, i don't know where to tell you to get one.

[Ghostscape]

Max has a biped built in. You could also get a model from www.turbosquid.com or something, or just make a block that is 6ft tall or something to help with scale.

Also those sizes for .bmps are 16bit, not 24bit, which can lead to color banding.

[180gee]

btw,180gee,where did you find that info about the half life2 specs?

Which specs you mean? The texture amount or the poly count?
I knew the size of the textures because I'm pretty familiar with the HL2 texture set. I found out the poly count of that room by adding all the poly counts of the props together (you can get them from the model viewer)

I'm still waiting for some opinions about my request of increasing the texture limit.
Again: 10mb are not enough for 20,000 tris. If the master chamber is supposed to be "next-gen" or even "current-gen" a (much) higher texture limit would be appropriate :)

[Auctane]

We are all waiting to hear back from Devilhacker. You could start your thread and work up concept art in the meantime.

[sheppyboy2000]

You know, I do hate to be a downer but in my current job, I've done an entire area with around 30MB of texture space. It is possible to do a lot with a little. Start looking at how you can economize. Look into texture layers so a small section can be repeated over a large space and the second layer being things like the dirt or scuffs being on a second layer. I've already started early design docs and texture budgets based upon early geometry specs.

Does 10MBs suck? Yeah. But keep in mind, this is an "unofficial game art challenge."

Instead of wasting time and energy bitching about the texture limits, start to figure out how to maximize your texture limits. Yes, if everything fits on one huge map you reach your limit fairly early. But I did NOT see a limit on the number of textures you can use. Start looking into alpha maps. Start thinking about things like "wait, who's to say my details can't be a bunch of smaller 24x24 maps?"

Keep in mind, unless you get very close to an object, there is NO reason to get into the heavy details. Yes, fully textured panels look awesome but so would a small screen with an obvious Prey or Doom 3 functional readout.

Sorry to sound rude but it seems like half this topic is whining about the texture limit instead of seeing THAT aspect of the challenge the actual CHALLENGE part.

[Auctane]

You know, I do hate to be a downer..
dont lie. :D The challenge is supposed to be between all of us, who can make the most amazing thing anyone has ever seen before. It is not intended to be a challenge between everyone and the specs.

If you were around for the discussion after the last challenge, you would know that there was talk of the future of the UGAC and desire within the community to make more of it. In hopes to one day gain the official support of CG Society, we need to continuously present high quality of work here in the UGAC. I believe the general opinion in the pre discussion was 10MB of optimized textures and there was a misunderstanding along the way as we rushed Devilhacker into starting the contest.

PLEASE WAIT UNTIL DEVILHACKER REPLIES BEFORE ANYONE CONTINUES THIS DISCUSSION OF TEXTURE LIMITS.

Thank you.

[WMBrown]

well, i'm sure we've got some industry game-makers that may have been in this kinda situation before... what do they have to say on the matter?

but i do agree... with some clever optimization (for example... do you need a full 24 bit pallette when the only colours in a given texture are from red to reddish brown?) and some creative solutions it could work out i'd imagine. makes me want to take part though i know my plate is full at the moment... gah, why do you tease me my dear muse, why!!!

...

though, the limit might make giving the level a pre-rendered GI effect a little tricky... :P

[RO]

Just saw the specs for textures. From the looks we will be able to use

3 1024x1024
2 512x512

Or so... I have seen charecter models with these specs. the polys are ok but the texture limit is a downer.

esp if you have a normal map, spec, and color map. One good texture that is 1024x1024. For one wall. Seems a bit useless. And this is thinking that next gen are starting to use 2048x0248 textures more offten.

Seems like a worthless project for a game comp. Idea is great but the specs for the texs are very low. The polys are okayish esp if you think of normal mapping stuff you can get away with low detail with awesome normals which is what is happening now with next gen games.

Just seems very constriant for a contest like this. And if we want to impress Cgtalk peeps to perhaps later make these offical we have to work with specs of nextgen stuff imo.

[orko60]

Agreed. I was really hoping to use this as a portfolio piece, and to make full use of the maps that are commonplace in next-gen games (normal, spec, diffuse). Seems now that that will be impossible. Where is DevilHacker, anyway?

[Wayne Adams]

Count me in.

[Auctane]

Devilhacker apparently stopped by, no word.

I am working within the 10MB of optimized textures that was originally intended to be the specs, and I encourage the rest of you to do the same.

[levin]

pdf says competition ends on june 9 :shrug:

[Auctane]

the PDF was copied from the last challenge, the date wasnt adjusted

[Peterwildman]

Not to make the texture conversation last any longer, but what counts as optimized?

What format should I save my textures as to get most bang for my buck?

[sheppyboy2000]

I prefer .rgb since it's about 20% smaller than .bmp and it can hold alpha channels. You may need to find a plug-in for your image editor but I still like it.

[Ghostscape]

.dds with DXT5 compression is both supported by video cards (IE the compression actually works on the card, as opposed to say a jpg or such) and offers really strong compression. you can find a bunch of tools at developer.nvidia.com for working with them in PS and Max, I know there are maya tools out there too for it but I haven't touched maya in a couple of months.

[orko60]

So you're suggesting DDS? I see no problem with that. Games have been using them for years! I don't see why this is even a question.

[Stefan-Morrell]

I thought we were using .bmp

if theres no compression allowed then it should be in a format that isnt compressed ,right?

[Auctane]

well, I was talking about tga, png, tif, jpg, gif... but if I choose to play along with this video card game, use I will use a DDS texture set.

[Stefan-Morrell]

well, I was talking about tga, png, tif, jpg, gif... but if I choose to play along with this video card game, use I will use a DDS texture set.

but isn't .DDS a compressed format ?

[Auctane]

Yes it is.

[Stefan-Morrell]

well..this just leaves me confused,I thought no compression..now we're using dds?

what format do we use for textures?..Devil Hacker ...are you around & can you answer that?

I can't start anything till I know this as my workflow is to texture,uv & model all at the same time

[RO]

agreed I would like to know this also. If we have compression with that texture limit given, than we may actually have something going here.

[orko60]

but isn't .DDS a compressed format ?

That's the whole point; they made it "no compression" to simulate the fact that video cards have to uncompress the textures, but nowadays apparently they can use DDS compressed formats within the card without decompressing. This would allow us to have some much nicer looking "chambers," but we won't know for sure until DevilHacker gets back to us. I'm going to start on mine using compression, and if it doesn't work out, I'll just use it as a portfolio piece.

[Stritar]

So. Should this be made for a specific game engine? Or just a low-poly game looking modeling? I have some sweet ideas for interior but I'm not sure I completely understand what the rules are.

[Auctane]

I am really sorry guys, I was going to start up this challenge because Devilhacker was really busy, for some reason I didn't. In his absence the challenge has become disorganized and some unprofessional attitudes have popped up. It seems like things are moving completely in the wrong direction of where I was hoping it would go.

I am disregarding the specs stated in the rules because my priority is my portfolio. If the rules are not changed I will have to withdrawal from the challenge.

cold liquid: just game art specs, not for any specific game engine

[180gee]

I think everybody should use the same type of compressed images OR we set a higher limit for uncompressed bmps. (actually I think 10mb might be too low even for compressed textures.)

No response from Devilhacker yet? Maybe somnambulance, you could take over?
This is a great challenge, but we need an answer about the whole texture thing asap.

[Ghostscape]

Yeah seriously DH is sort've dropping the ball on this one. I understand he's got a lot on his plate right now so it would be good if someone took over. We still need DH to update the first post, though.

[RO]

Perhaps the community can help. I go to this site daily to look at stuff. If I can help in anyway possible to get things going in the right direction I am here. DH has done a great job with the last contests and I would like this to keep going imo with no serious problems. So if you guys need help I am here.

Hope the best of luck with this :)

[Ghostscape]

Me and Somnambulance have been talking, and both he and I agree that the texture limit as it stands of 10 megs uncompressed is not enough to make a next-gen/current-gen piece worthy of someone's portfolio.

As the ultimate goal of the UGAC is to provide practice and exposure to Game Artists, we feel that each contest should focus around a piece that would fit in someone's portfolio. Previous contests, including the "portable environment" "Super Shiny Vehicle", etc, have all resulted in portfolio pieces for people as well as practice with real world tasks.

Unfortunately, 10megs of uncompressed texture space results in less than 2048x2048 texture space. For comparison, UT2k7 is using 2048x2048 for character normal maps alone.

We were discussing it, and ultimately think that 4096x4096 worth of texture space, shared across diffuse, normal, specular, etc, provides a more realistic amount to work with. 4096x4096 (which comes out to 48 megs uncompressed RGBA, or 16megs DXT5 compressed RGBA) is the same as 16 1024x1024 textures, or 64 512x512s. This means you can easily utilize multiple maps for various materials to create realistic, next gen materials for your environment.

I'm going to make an updated rules thread and PM Equinoxx about it shortly, but wanted to get feedback from the community first.

edit: In fact I'm waiting until Saturday evening since there isn't any feedback from anyone except Somn :D

[Auctane]

Glad to see things are back on track. Game on!

[orko60]

I'm down with that. What a relief!!!

[Stefan-Morrell]

sounds like a plan..revolution is at hand ;)

we will need to post in every entry thread too so everyone know the specs (on the assumption some may not read the rules thread)


Cheers
Stefan

[freesmith]

I know I didn't, I was so thrilled with the idea, I forgot to read the rest of the rules thread. As seen , didn’t called the entry thread by the rules…

Sorry for that, I need advice on how to fix it?

[HellBoy]

emmm... I...think... this texture business (10MB) started because of me :blush:... or so I think...

[RO]

It is all good. Things happen people. DH has done a great job and hope the best of luck with him with his job. So please do not blame him for this guys. He has been doing these great comps. Human misstakes etc.

[Auctane]

Hellboy, dont sweat it, we all thought it was a good idea and supported it.

Freesmith, its not really a big deal, you can PM Equinoxx and ask him to help you with that. I like the shapes you are putting together in your WIP.

I dont think anyone is upset with DH, we knew he was busy...

[freesmith]

Great ;), it's my first post on CGTalk, I'll do my best...

[Ghostscape]

It is all good. Things happen people. DH has done a great job and hope the best of luck with him with his job. So please do not blame him for this guys. He has been doing these great comps. Human misstakes etc.

Yeah what limited communication I've had with DH has basically boiled down to the fact that he is swamped with work, which is good for his wallet but not for his personal time.

Glad to see everyone is in support, I'm going to recreate the Rules Thread so I can update it as needed because right now most people are just going to read the original rules and get confused.

[Ghostscape]

edit: what the hell I suck at making new threads please disregard :D

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