Chiaroscuro WIP

[Runecaster]

added the motes:

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/chiaroscuro_wip3.jpg


I could really use the help guys on how to push this further, someone's got to have an idea?

[LDiehl]

First off, I'm not familiar with the book you speak of (though intrigued enough to perhaps hunt it down when I get the chance). The image you have right now, I think, suffers from the awe the words encompass. Here are a few things I would suggest:

1.) Play with composition. Try enlarging the mouse so that his head and ears frame the bottom of the canvas, or shrink him and use his minuscule scale to make the doorway more awe inspiring. Try taking the mouse’s' eye view and showing the view up the stairs to the top landing.

2.) Take a camera with a fast shutter-speed and pick a very bright sunlight afternoon. Find a red cloth (a bandana maybe) that "flutters" nicely. Have a friend throw it for you (and run) while you snap photos of the cloth mid-air. A reference such as this could really help you take your cloth further (especially because it is such an important part).

3.) Add details! In a "simple" image such as this details will really help add interest. I want to know what types of rock the walls are made of. How exactly is the arch of the doorway supported? Are there spider webs? Bugs? Other small items that would be in the mouse's cell?

4.) Work on emotion. Could the mouse be gesturing? A tear falling form his eye? The blanket be lit in a more inspiring way? Could the dungeon be creepier or more depressing in color of shadow?

Great idea and good work so-far. This could be really great!

[Runecaster]

Thank you Laura!!

You know, I do intend to add details that I should have mentioned!

I didn't think of cobwebs though (since I did them on another dungeon-esque piece - it didn't even occur to me) but ya know, I LOVE cobwebs, and this place, this would have cobwebs.

I was going to add a busted up stool and a brass keyring.

You know what though? I really don't know HOW to detail out the cloth anymore than I've done -- I guess I should just make a new layer and try things? I just feel like I've come to a point where my limited skill is keeping my vision from materializing so I need to learn something new to realize it.

I'll work on it some more and see what happens -- thanks SO much for your insight!!

[Runecaster]

Ok, added a little more elements and details.

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/chiaroscuro_wip4.jpg

[arnocob]

So, a new thread?:)
It's interesting to start from a book.
I like the general lighting, very good start.
I don't know what to say about the red clothe, except that it's maybe a too symetric design and don't really create a movement...
Also, I think that the mouse is too central in the image, maybe could you translate her on the right (near the keys) more where the light fall.
And....also, add space to your canvas in the bottom?

Excuse me because my english sounds really bad, and I'm tired (going to sleep:))
bye

[Euphrosyne]

I would suggest looking at some paintings or pictures of flowing pieces of cloth to get a better image of the red cloth. Many of the preraphealite painters painted flowing sashes and clothing on their characters, this might give you some insight to how to paint the fabric and get it to look like it is flowing down the stairs. I think that you are doing a very nice job of capturing the moment in the story. I liked the original color better than the orange red that you are using now but that is my preference. I love the way you captured the light.

[Runecaster]

small update:

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/chiaroscuro_wip5.jpg

I think it might be almost done - kind of a simple image really, but that's OK. I will go do another detailing pass tomorrow - any other ideas/technical advice or suggestions?

[Runecaster]

Oh ack I didn't realize last night when I posted that last update that you guys had responded.

Just a little info: the cloth is suspended mid-air, not falling down the stairs - but if that isn't clear then I obviously need to work on it :)

Will be working on this today as well as one other image - will definately post updates, thanks for the input!

[eilidh]

This looks good! Perhaps a different perspective (more upwards) would have been more dramatic, but since that would mean redrawing the whole picture from scratch, never mind it. It still looks good as it is.
I think Laura gave you some excellent pointers. If you can take reference shots of that cloth, by all means go for it. If not, well, bear in mind that falling cloth (if it's thin enough) will make a slightly baloon-like shape in some place. At any rate, don't overlook this. Google search for references, or try taking your own, but it's really one of the two central objects (along with the critter) and it must look convincing and carry some of the drama and feel of the scene in its motion.

Detail: it would be nice to add a little sparkle to the cobwebs, for effect!

[Runecaster]

Thanks so much for looking Eilidh!

I'm so obsessed with crits about this one because I'm at a standstill, I started working on something else LOL


Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that to REALLY punch this, I'm going to have to do the cloth over --

But that's ok - because it needs that punch, I really want it to punch -- and hell, redrawing it wont kill me :D

I did a cursory search on alamy for the fabric, but I need to do a broader search.

Cool - thanks guys and yeah about the cobwebs! I'm kinda hating the top ones, but I like the one on the bench... will work those out more for sure

[Runecaster]

Ok a preliminary re-vamp of the fabric.

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/chiaroscuro_wip7.jpg

Just as a total aside, I hope it's apparent, but the fabric is above the light, the ends on the stairs side catching it and making it glow. Any help in regards to lighting that would be great, as I'm totally 100% winging it, haha!

[Runecaster]

Got some great crits at epilogue -- somewhat about my background being too realistic and the foreground not meshing -- since I wanted to keep it an illustrative feel I decided to simplify the background. I also added some canvas and will be re-working another version of chiaroscuro, as it was pointed out to me he is at the wrong perspective -- he is drawn rat's eye level and the dungeon is human eye level.

I don't think that is GLARING but it is probably correct in any event I could use the drawing exercise.

Here is my current progress so far -

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/concepts/chiaroscuro_wip8.jpg

I'm a little tentative about the new walls - but I kept the old ones haha so I can always go back. I am just basically technically not sure HOW to make them seem more illustrative in style... so that is what I'm playing around with.

I have found that most of the time I'm in this state of mind: I recognize what needs to be changed or worked on, but struggle with HOW to do it.

^^ utter frustration :)

[CyborgJA]

chyeck mouse's shadow. It's not aligned with lightrays. Check its lenght too : you can modify the ground perspective with it but keep attention to keys perspective too.

[Runecaster]

Thanks Cyborg! I didn't notice the shadow haha! It's fixed now, even though I don't have an update.



So I have a question for you guys. I just basically got my ass handed to me at another site about how the concept is 'flat and boring'...

This is how I pictured it in my mind when I read the book, this is exactly my vision --

I don't really see a problem with trying to capture that - but - he said I could 'do it so many other different ways'...

This is one of those things where I can either change the entire concept or just stick with my guns. I'm kinda a mess right now so I am at a loss.

[eilidh]

It's not exactly a problem per se. In many cases, it can be exactly a matter of how one has visualised a scene.
On the other hand, since that guy said it was boring (I assume he didn't find it dramatic enough): there are ways to make a picture more dramatic. Usually these involve the use of lighting/colour (the stronger the contrasts, the more intense the picture will look) and perspective/viewpoint.
In terms of perspective, for example: take a look at this image by SamsonsReaper (http://samsonsreaper.cgsociety.org/gallery/366821/). I guess it's pretty obvious that the 'falling' wouldn't have a tenth of the impact it has now if it was a frontal view of the waterfall and the dragon midway through it, 'falling'.

At this point, you could either redraw the entire picture in a different, upwards-looking perspective, or stick with what you've got anyway and keep this in mind for future works.

If you choose to remake it, try many sketches beforehand -- don't start right away on a canvas that will carry the finished work. You might want to take a break and study perspective in detail, too, so as to get it as right as possible.
To give you an idea, again -- check this guy's terrific progress steps (http://cgmeet.com/alon/more.php?id=5_0_1_0_M) for a piece currently on the front page. He went though many individual studies and sketches before he decided what his scene would look like -- and then changed it halfway, too.

At any rate, the only thing that's for certain is that you shouldn't feel disappointed and discouraged. That kind of creative illustration is a hard task. As for knowing or not knowing things -- I hadn't grasped such ideas until pretty recently (and I've been painting since 2002, so go figure).

[LDiehl]

I second eilidh. By the way, eilidh, thanks so much for the links! I love the progress shots, a lot like the way I work (only I am not nearly as diligent about pre-painting studies).

I say don't be discouraged, and don't give up! If you are satisfied with this image: stop now. Don't work on it until the magic is gone for you.

However, if you are game for another go at it, I would suggest searching for references (rock walls, mice, cloth, keys, spiderwebs, barrels, and other dungeon-y small items), doing studies, boning up on perspective, and starting over with what you've learned here and a page of thumbnail sketches (different camera angles etc). Take your time with it, and you might just find this a more awe-inspiring painting (for you) when you're done ;)

[Euphrosyne]

Don't let someone throw cold water on your passion! Good Critisizim will encourage you to expand and define your vision, poor critisizim will tear down without any encouragement or suggestion that might help. You always have the choice on how to react to both, ask yourself how can I use this information (which is all it is) to make my work better. If there is nothing there that you can use then discard it without another thought.

I like what you did with the mouse and feel a real connection with the character, so not everyone has the same opinion as that person did.

[kefka]

Hi Rune!

I also thought that the clothe was too "symetric-looking", like Arconob suggested. Its much better now.

I think it would be even more realistic if it was lighter (meaning that light passes through it). It would merge with the rest of the picture better. What do you think?

Anyway, keep going!

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