simple question on modelling

[Phasmatis]

You could just do the basic outline then start extruding edges. For instance, if you start with the eye, you do the inner bit with points then go round again on the outside, then you just make the polys inbetween, then all you have to do is extrude the edges... That's how I do it anyway. :)

[AdamT]

Originally posted by Claudio72
I'm point modelling and I find really boring going always to "add point" and I would like to know if:

1) There's a way to copy the selected point and paste it?
Structure Manager-->Copy/Paste

Whenever possible I sweep edges instead of creating/copying/pasting points. Much quicker.

2) Is there a shortcut for "add point" and "create polygon" operation?
Not sure, but if there isn't it's easy enough to create your own.

[Claudio72]

Yes, but every time do you have to add the points and create the poly manually? Or there's something in your message I don't understand?

[Claudio72]

Adam, thank's for the structure manager, I've figured it.

How you sweep edges? Do you have an example?

How I create a shortcut?

Sorry to bother but this time I need help....... :-)

[sebek27]

yeah how do you sweep edges Adam ? thx

[Phasmatis]

Extrude the edges you have already. The polygons will be created for you when you extrude, it's a lot easier than adding the points then creating the poly. You could even use this technique with just one polygon. :)

[sebek27]

do you need the edge extrude plugin ??

[Phasmatis]

If you're talking to me, then yes if you have R7 But if you have R8 then you can use the edge tools.

[kiwi]

Heres a trick I worked out for point modelling which will also speed up your modelling.Take a plane and make editable,delete all of the polys,set your magnet tool to nearest point method checked,radius 0,type bell,width 50% {from Bunks Messie tute} Now move your points around where ever you want {point mode} and because they were a plane you can bridge and make polys with them.Its brilliant for organic modelling using images in the viewports,you just have to remember not to optimize your points :)



Stu.

[Claudio72]

thank's to all. Now I'm quite fast.................


I'm a bit scared about the nose and the lips but I'm proceding with my first human head; not yet human, now it's something strange only

http://www.crosio.com/images/wip_head.jpg

[kiwi]

It takes lots of practise Claudio :) .....use lots of reference images as well.



I also find it useful sometimes to remove the smoothing tag altogether,I can see what the mesh behaving like better.



Stu.

[Claudio72]

I know stu.
Do you see something really wrong in this wip?
Do you have some advice to avoid some errors?


I've used two photo I've taken, one front view and another side view as reference.

I've only tringulated one time at the top of the head.
I hope I'm following the right way and the right tecnique, I've read so much about modelling before starting something so hard............

[DaliFan]

if you are using c4d then I would really use the messie tut until you feel relaxed enough to try others

messie was made for c4d and is setup to hold your hand for a complete head.. as well as a body

[Claudio72]

what's this messie tutorial?
about the body I feel relaxed.........but in all situation I feel good.
:beer:

[kiwi]

The thing is with a head wip Claudio its very hard to crit in the initial stages because there are a hundred and one things to mention.But Tims {Dalifan} suggestion of the Messie tute is a very good one :)



That triangle at the back of your head will stop you being able to get a rounded shape from an aerial view,as you need a 4 sided poly there to to be able to shape the back of the head properly.



I often use fashion mags from where ever I get them,hey have heaps of close up facial shots etc.



Also check out third_eyes brilliant head as well which has a thread in here.




Stu.

[DaliFan]

www.maxon.net

support - Tutorials - Project based tutorials

then scroll down for messie


it is a long tut but worth it

[AdamT]

I think the Messie tutorial is a great modeling exercise and a good study in technique, but I definitely wouldn't recommend that approach for head modeling. I'm about 99% sure even Bunk, who wrote the tutorial, wouldn't recommend that approach these days.

[DaliFan]

yeah I agree 100% but for a first I think it is the way to go, it holds your hand, it takes you through most of the basics and explains almost every step with pictures

heads are no easy thing and for a first one it can seem like a nightmare

[Claudio72]

oh, I know the maxon tutorials on modelling, but they always start with box and I hate this!!! I hate box modelling technique

It's much more easy to start with points modelling IMO(that's what I feel).


I think this is the tutorial I'm looking for:

http://www.evil-plan.com/HT.html


thank's for your help

Claudio

[AdamT]

Check out this point-by-point head modeling tutorial:
http://www.creativecow.net/articles/labelle_jannis/head_ee/index.html

It gives a good general approach, although the edge loops aren't optimal for animation. For a great example of edge looping, study Bunk's Otto (and female) model that comes with R8. Really really good loops there.

There's also a very good point-by-point tutorial in Arndt Von Koenigsmarck's book, "Maxon Cinema 4D 7"--highly recommended.

[Claudio72]

thank's to you all, I've decided to stop with this sucker and start a new one!!


http://www.crosio.com/images/suck_head.jpg

[brammelo]

BTW guys, it's not the "Messie" tutorial, it's the "Meissie" tutorial, and it's, as far as I remember, South-African for "Girl". Just to let you know ...

Cheers,
BaRa

[phoenixart]

Hi Claudio,

here're some other good tutorials:

http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~mimura/tutorials/index_e.html
http://www.bmc.med.utoronto.ca/c4d/index.html
http://www.3dluvr.com/janine/kopf-tut/tut.htm

[Claudio72]

I've spent all the day in looking, reading, testing tutorials and after this "tour de force" I feel really relaxed, I see human head everywhere..............

This is my second try from scratch again..................

I think this night I will dream human head all the times, as it happened with red alert, quake 3 and other games

this is the result.......remember that it's only my 2nd try

http://www.crosio.com/images/head2.jpg

this sucker at the end has to be a woman!!!

[AdamT]

Looking better. One piece of advice: do use reference images in the viewports if at all possible.

[Claudio72]

yes adam, I use it, I'm finding problem with the eyes now...........it's harder than I thought.........

[Claudio72]

I'm finding problem with the simmetry of shaders...........do you have some clue? it doesn't mirror the shaders

[Claudio72]

I stop here today

http://www.crosio.com/images/head3.jpg

[kiwi]

The meissie tute is good for showing eye and mouth modelling Claudio,just ignore the other bits.



Meissie is French for girl isnt it?




Heres a head I am working on,you can see I was tired when I added the eyes as they dont fit properly..doh!.This was without a tute,but I have to say Bunks tute showed me a lot about modelling eyes and lips,but like Adam I am more interested in edge looping so I am trying to come up with a way I like doing it that suits me with a combination of other tutes :)


Stu.

[Coen]

Meissie is French for girl isnt it?

nope it's dutch for girly

[brammelo]

Hey Coen,

Klinkt net zo goed Zuid-Afrikaans, denk je niet? Hoewel, als je ziet dat Bunk Timmer de auteur is ...

BaRa

[Coen]

Hi Brammelo

voor de meeste mensen hier zou het net zo goed chinees kunnen zijn.
Maar je hebt gelijk, of vlaams ;)

[Claudio72]

going on with the aid of my friend IVY from psd.it

http://www.psd.it/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1925


http://www.crosio.com/images/wip_head3.jpg

[Heiland]

Whats this edge looping you guys are talking about? I'm "boxing" my first head, too but i never heard something about edge looping. What's the use of it?

BTW: Nice wip head, mine are way uglier :(

Heiland

[ThirdEye]

www.thehobbitguy.com here you will find all you need to know about edgelooping ;)

[Heiland]

Well thanks, i'd call that subdivision surface modelling but edgelooping is shorter :)

[AdamT]

Edge Looping is any kind of poly modeling where edges are arranged to flow with the organic/anatomical structure of the thing being modeled. Not the same as SDS modeling, as you can make an SDS model with no, or lousy, edgeloops. Trust me--I know. :)

A model with edge loops animates much more easily than a non-edge-looped model.

[Seismo]

Really nice link third eye. Would like to try that tutorial, but I´m afraid it´s not possible like this in Cinema. Or am I wrong? How do I make a polygon with so many verticles (without getting lots of edges on the polygon surface)? And how do I add those edgeloops? Would be cool if someone had an answer, because this tut seems to be really effective and I wanna try it.

Greetz
Seismo

[ThirdEye]

This is the level-0 head model I'm working now on, it is a good example of edgelooping modeling imo. Look at every single edge, you'll notice that it will flow around without interruptions. Not a single tri in the whole mesh. And yes, C4D modeling.

[Heiland]

ah, i see. but i would also appreciate a short intro to edgeloops in c4d. this head seems cleaner as even my box before i start :( :)

Heiland

[Seismo]

Wow, looks absolutely amazing thirdEye. Very clean mesh. What I don´t understand: How do I draw the silhouette outline and make it a polygon. How do I add those edges after that to define the mesh?

Greetz
Seismo

[ThirdEye]

My process is basically the same of Dave Komorowski (the hobbitguy). I draw a basic clear mesh adding a few points in frontal view, i join them using bridge and when i'm satisfied i define the z depth moving the points. If you have R8 you can use edgering command + edgecut, it's REALLY powerful! I hope it helps ;)

[AdamT]

Nice looking mesh 3d Eye. Still, I think the loops could be improved some. Check out Bunk's Human Meg and Human Otto models that come with R8 and notice how the loops from the inner eyes run all the way down the side of the nose and around the mouth. Here's how I think it might look:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/d/AdamTrachtenberg/3d%20eye%20mesh%20copy.jpg

Also, it's hard to tell from the angle you posted, but it doesn't look like there's a defined edge for the jaw--hence the jaw line above.

[ThirdEye]

check this out Adam, i exploited this mesh topology, it seems really good to me :shrug:

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26813

[ThirdEye]

Anyway here's my thread for that 2nd head if you're interested to: http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=353221#post353221

[AdamT]

ThirdEye,
That's a great thread, and a nice base mesh he's put together. I still prefer Bunk's eye/nose loop, which could be worked into it. Here's a diagram Bunk posted a while back illustrating some looping schemes:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/A/d/AdamTrachtenberg/edgeloop_var.jpg
He made it available for download, so I don't think he'd mind my posting it here. (Bunk: if you see this and you want me to take it down let me know).

[ThirdEye]

Really nice schemes!! :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Another great head you've got going, Thirdeye. I added a comment in that thread.

[ThirdEye]

Thank you very much AdamT (anyway i'm not sure i understood what you meant for smile lines... :shrug: can you explain it please?)

[AdamT]

Smile lines are the creases running from the nostrils to the corners of the mouth. So called, I guess, because they deepen when you smile and your cheeks compress.

[ThirdEye]

No Adam, they're not made with bump mapping, they're actually modeled, they suck, yes, but they're modeled :D Thank you very much! :thumbsup:

[AdamT]

Ah! Well, I have every confidence they'll look great when you're done. :beer:

[VSLX]

Hello, you all...
I'm a bit late in this, but hmm I really wouldn't try this technique. I would consider box modelling or nurbs (directly, if you draw very well and have a tablet, so you can almost "draw" the face, to give the perfect form on the fastest way) that's the best way because it's easiest for animation...

But I don't know... guess I'm not a good artist... I always mess with polygons (can be messy as hell).

Claudio, I sent you an email... you can send me back the model so I can mess a bit

:beer:

[Heiland]

Hmm, again my boxmodeling mind has no clue what you mean by "drawing" nurbs with a tablet. its more like moving points, isn't it? and i think the hobbitguy-thing is nearly impossible in c4d :( you can't draw outlines an then connect them to a mesh :hmm:

*sigh* being a newbie is far from :buttrock: i think :)

heiland

[bunk]

(Bunk: if you see this and you want me to take it down let me know).

Nope it's fine with me :)

Still using the eyes/mouth loop. Have no idea why other people do not use it and instead end up in the nose wing (looks less flexible to me).


Here is my latest minimum mesh. A bit different then the one Phreaknasty is using.

http://www.bunk.cistron.nl/plaatjes/minimum_1.jpg

and a screen shot of the UVW polys showing the loops more clearly.

http://www.bunk.cistron.nl/plaatjes/minimummesh.gif

This time used for a toonhead (wip) but should work as fine on a more realistic head.

Cheers,

bunk

Bara, meissie is plat nederlands ;) Coen, binnenkort weer eens bieren?

[ThirdEye]

Thank you very much for sharing Bunk :beer:

[Claudio72]

hey, now maybe I understand what this edge looping is, but I think for many side my model is an edge loop..............or am I wrong??

I know it sucks a lot but.............it's edge loop compliant...... :-)


I will consider buying version 8 soon..............I'm waiting for.........I don't know what I'm waiting for



vslx. tomorrow I read your long email, it's too late tonight!!


:thumbsup:

[VSLX]

Very nice... oh man... only if I could stay on low poly while modelling.....

[kiwi]

Very cool :thumbsup:


Thirdeye really nice new model :)



Bunk and Adam thanks for the pics,I keep on getting stuck with too may rows of polys on the front of the neck due to cutting in detail on the nose.The corner of the mouth is the area I get stuck in :)



Stu.

[AdamT]

I know what you mean, Kiwi. I finally realized it doesn't matter if you have a bunch of triangles inside the nostril--unless you're doing a really odd animation. :eek:

[ThirdEye]

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38469 this thread is really interesting!

ps Bunk why don't you come in that thread? ;)

[bunk]

ps Bunk why don't you come in that thread?

I just did ;)

Thanks for the link.

bunk

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