PDA

View Full Version : Particles and workflow questions


VirtualFM
07-06-2006, 05:40 PM
I am analysing the possibilities of Fusion's particles, but beside the good thing of beeing true 3D particle system I am finding them to be a pain to work with! Is it me or are they death slow?!

The weird thing, is that I can see it takes the pRender several seconds to calculate whatever it is calculating so that I can see the result in the Fusion Interface, but then when rendering it does itmuch faster, which wouldn't be that bad if i had that kind of feedback when previewing. Is there any way of improving feedback when working with particles?! I would be happy if the time-to-render-while-working was the same as the time-to-render-while-rendering-the-final!

Another thing relates to the workflow differences between Fusion's node way of thinking versus AfterFX linear way of thinking.

In AfterFX we can pick several pieces of footage (several image sequences) and put them together one in front of the other. We do all the kinds of compositing but in the eng we also can make a rough editing. In Fusion I don't understand how to do that! If I have a flow and add a saver in the end, that saver corresponds to that flow and that's it! If I want to have another image sequence with it's corresponding flow, I can add a saver to the end, and mess around in the timeline, but can't see how I can get the final render of the two flows!

For example: For input I have ImageSeq1 and ImageSeq2. I make the flows with all the bluring/color correction/whatever to each sequence, then want a FinalRender AVI sequence that have all the changes to ImageSeq1 and ImageSeq2... How do we setup a saver that can do that? I thought about making two inputs in the saver but that doesn't work, thought abou putting two savers, adjusting them in the Timeline (with ImageSeq1 going from 0 to 100 frames, and ImageSeq2 from 101 to 200 and the corresponding savers) but that didn't work too..

So how do we do this in this kind of node philosophy?!

Thank you,

DanielK
07-07-2006, 03:01 AM
The weird thing, is that I can see it takes the pRender several seconds to calculate whatever it is calculating so that I can see the result in the Fusion Interface, but then when rendering it does itmuch faster
There's a simple enough reason. Particles, by their nature, need to be rendered sequentially. That is, in order to know where they are at frame n, you first have to calculate frames 0, 1, 2...n-1. Once you know frame n, it's easy to calculate frame n+1, so stepping forward in time is fast (which is what final renders always do).

However, if you're working interactively at frame n, and you make a change to the emitter, say, Fusion has to recalculate all of frames 0, 1, 2...n every time you make a change. This is what can get slow. You'll find that if you make changes at frame 0, things are much faster than if you do this at frame 500, because it's calculating only 1 frame of particles instead of all 500, every time.

We do all the kinds of compositing but in the eng we also can make a rough editing. In Fusion I don't understand how to do that!
OK, as a simple example, if you want to edit two clips together, add a Loader node for each clip, and connect them both to a Dissolve node. Then, in the timeline view, you may trim and drag the time bars for each loader to time the edit as you wish. If the bars overlap, then the loader connected to the Dissolve's Foreground input will have priority (you can swap them by pressing Ctrl+W with the Dissolve node selected).

That'll give you an ordinary cut edit. If you want a dissolve instead, animate the Dissolve's Background/Foreground slider from background to foreground (or vice versa) over the time you want. Different kinds of dissolves are available from the Operation dropdown. If you want to edit in further clips, add additional loaders, and additional Dissolves.

Now just connect a Saver to the Dissolve's output, and render. If you want to add layers or effects to either clip, do so after the corresponding Loader (before the Dissolve). If you want to affect the entire edited result, add tools after the Dissolve.

It's also possible to do simple cuts within a single Loader, using its Clip List. See the manual for more info, but to get you started, add a Loader with a single clip, then try dragging and dropping clips from an Explorer window directly into the Timeline view, onto the gaps before and after the Loader's clip. You can easily trim and rearrange the clips in a single Loader with the Timeline view.

tweeeker
07-07-2006, 06:22 AM
Hi there, can't help you with your particles I'm afraid however editing multiple clips together the short answer is use an editing program.

The long answer - you can use a disolve node to blend between two inputs. So if you have two loaders that say run from frames 0-99 and 100-199, you just need to connect the two loaders into the disolve node and animate it at frame 100. The other thing you'l need to do is pad the second clip by 100 frames so that it doesn't start until frame 100, you can do that with an option in the loader. Also don't forget you can use multiple sequences in a single loader, this works well in cases where you wish to apply the same processing to input.

Seriously tho, you won't be wanting to do that too often to edit a movie so I'd consider using a proper editing package. Editing in aftereffects is still awkward compared to a proper editing package too.

T

VirtualFM
07-07-2006, 02:05 PM
The long answer - you can use a disolve node to blend between two inputs.
...
Seriously tho, you won't be wanting to do that too often to edit a movie so I'd consider using a proper editing package. Editing in aftereffects is still awkward compared to a proper editing package too.
T

Thanks again Daniel. Thank you too Tweeeker. Sure, of course I don't intend to use Fusion as an editor replacement, but it's nice to see that there is a simple workaround to make those things that are possible in AfterFX.

Regards,

CGTalk Moderation
07-07-2006, 02:05 PM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.