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andre_alder
01-16-2003, 01:53 PM
Hey all...

What is hammer? Is A new power AMD to fight with Itanium or is going to fight with Intel HT 3.2 GHZ????

When will be release??

regards: beer:
and

GregHess
01-16-2003, 04:30 PM
Slegehammer and Clawhammer are AMD's 64 bit chips. They are set to compete against everything Intel has available...including Itanium, and all Desktop/Server based solutions.

andre_alder
01-16-2003, 05:34 PM
Fantastic.....

But 1.0: When Hammer will be released?
But 2.0: Athlon won´t be development more?
But 3.0: And the price? Does it compete against Itanium or Xeon or will be more expensive?


Andre

Thalaxis
01-16-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by andre_alder
Fantastic.....
But 1.0: When Hammer will be released?
But 2.0: Athlon won´t be development more?
But 3.0: And the price? Does it compete against Itanium or Xeon or will be more expensive?
Andre

1: March in sampling, volumes April according to the last report.

2: Not true, I'll get back to that.

3: Depends. More follows.

There are 3 variants on the Hammer being developed. Two are t be branded Opteron, and will go up against Xeon. One of them is for 2-processor setups, one is for up to 4.

The other is the sequel to the Athlon, to be branded Athlon64, and will (duh :)) go up against the P4 (Prescott, may be branded as a P5).

GregHess: AMD can't go up against Itanium, however much they'd like to, at least not at first. Before they can do that, they need to establish a name for themselves by proving that they can deliver a stable product, in addition to a fast and inexpensive one. Technologically, they could compete with Itanium, based on performance, 64-bit support, and that sort of thing; the catch is that the markets that Itanium is going after are VERY conservative, and largely dominated by Sun, IBM, and HP. That conservatism is what will keep AMD out of that market -- initially. A successful Hammer launch could change that, and that is why AMD is putting so much of their resources into the Hammer project now, and allowing the AthlonXP to languish a bit.

GregHess
01-16-2003, 09:04 PM
I disagree. In some ways the battle's already been fought...and won.

Thalaxis
01-16-2003, 09:20 PM
No, not really... up to now, AMD hasn't made any real effort at going after the server and workstation markets. They've gotten some smaller vendors on board, and they've convinced quite a few individuals to jump on board, but thus far they have not had anything to offer to the corporate IT buyers.

The next step in AMD's move up the corporate ladder is the Xeon's market.

GregHess
01-16-2003, 10:55 PM
Thats interesting. I know quite a few high end houses, oem's, and dare I say...nah I shouldn't. Lets just say AMD has a whole slew of people on their side, that weren't on their side last year.

Just because consumers aren't using hammer products, doesn't mean that big cg houses aren't.

elvis
01-16-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Thalaxis
No, not really... up to now, AMD hasn't made any real effort at going after the server and workstation markets. They've gotten some smaller vendors on board, and they've convinced quite a few individuals to jump on board, but thus far they have not had anything to offer to the corporate IT buyers.

Dell are in talks to put Opteron (hammer) chips in all of their high-end server machines to replace their failed line of itanium servers.

AMD are also keen to get hammer chips into high-end Dell workstations by 2004.

The corporate IT buyers have spoken. :)

On an intersting side note: the CEO's of apple and AMD are golfing buddies, and the rumour-mill suggests that Apple may consider AMD hammers as a possibility for the next phase in the Apple Macintosh lifecycle. This is a little more rumour based and less fact base than the Dell information, but still interesting.

Thalaxis
01-16-2003, 11:15 PM
For one thing, that's exactly what AMD is trying to achieve with the Hammer.

For another, you got the 2nd part wrong; consumers will be using Hammer products, that's what the Athlon64 I mentioned is for.

Apparently there will also be a mobile version, which would be a good thing since mobile processors support higher margins than consumer processors.

And finally, you are talking about a small niche. I'm talking about a much, much bigger one... while it is definitely a good market to get into (because CG shops tend to buy new stuff more often than IT shops), the IT shop market is a LOT larger... and is 80% Xeon, by unit.

Fortunately, CG shops tend to be a bit less conservative, because they care too much about performance... from AMD's point of view, that's not a huge help because there isn't enough money in that market alone to sustain them in a protracted race with Intel.

Originally posted by GregHess
Thats interesting. I know quite a few high end houses, oem's, and dare I say...nah I shouldn't. Lets just say AMD has a whole slew of people on their side, that weren't on their side last year.

Just because consumers aren't using hammer products, doesn't mean that big cg houses aren't.

Thalaxis
01-16-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by elvis
Dell are in talks to put Opteron (hammer) chips in all of their high-end server machines to replace their failed line of itanium servers.

AMD are also keen to get hammer chips into high-end Dell workstations by 2004.

The corporate IT buyers have spoken. :)


Dell is also on board with Itanium2, now that Intel is (finally) shipping a chipset and motherboard for it.

The Dell/AMD rumors keep coming up, and it seems like it has about the same chance of being true this time as last, which is to say at best, even (again, this isn't a purely technology-driven decision).

As yet, NO tier 1 vendors have announced support for Hammer. There are hints here and there, IBM has software ports to Hammer/Linux (64-bit, even), but so far that's about it. Their biggest OEM currently is Newisys, which is a startup.

The corporate IT buyers have indeed not spoken yet. It's going to take more than a good product to get them to switch from Xeon to Hammer.


On an intersting side note: the CEO's of apple and AMD are golfing buddies, and the rumour-mill suggests that Apple may consider AMD hammers as a possibility for the next phase in the Apple Macintosh lifecycle. This is a little more rumour based and less fact base than the Dell information, but still interesting. [/b]

It would make sense... if they can pull it off they'd be competitive. If AMD's estimates are not overstated, it looks like it will be pretty close to Itanium2 in floating point, and ahead of Power4 in integer (slightly, and not at launch, it seems).

GregHess
01-16-2003, 11:23 PM
For another, you got the 2nd part wrong; consumers will be using Hammer products, that's what the Athlon64 I mentioned is for.

I meant now. I know consumers will be using them. But some places are already using the hammer products. Or at least have direct access to them. And of course, the industry will have access long before joe consumer does :).

And remember...its the smaller markets which tend to carry the larger punch.

My IT department is 80% AMD, 20% Intel...but then of course its only one university :).

But then of course, since this all is in the future none of this argument/discussion really matters. Both of these companies are well known for changing dates and releases almost at a whim. 'As well as pulling ace's out of their hats...nobody knew about.

Thalaxis
01-16-2003, 11:30 PM
Originally posted by GregHess
I meant now. I know consumers will be using them. But some places are already using the hammer products. Or at least have direct access to them. And of course, the industry will have access long before joe consumer does :).


True... AMD does have a fair number of samples out there, though they seem to have run out of them. I guess that's a good sign, since it does indicate that the level of interest is considerably higher than it was for the Athlon.


And remember...its the smaller markets which tend to carry the larger punch.


But a lot less money, which is the problem. The CG market is good for PR, not so much for revenue.


My IT department is 80% AMD, 20% Intel...but then of course its only one university :).

That may not be the rule thus far, but it's still a good start. The point I'm trying to make is not that AMD is doomed (well, if they flub the Hammer launch, they're definitely doomed), but rather that they're just getting started with their fight against Intel.

This is going to make for a rather interesting spring season, I think :bounce:

By mid-summer, if all goes well, we'll be able to get seriously fast 64-bit processors on our home computers... that will be sweet. :D

BTW -- AMD claims to have a tier 1 vendor on board... and it may be that the startup Newisys is their ace in the hole this time.

Bradf0rd010
01-17-2003, 01:14 AM
Some facts for you, just for the craic.

AMD said it made a net loss of $854,740,000 for its fourth quarter (this year is make or break time and they're putting big faith in the mainstream Athlon 64 market)

Barton and MP2600 are comfirmed for February, Athlon 64 (ClawHammer) in April.

Opteron will ship in volume in the second quarter (the smaller numbers announced for March? Set for March/April cusp release?).

While an MPX system can still very much hold it's own against much more expensive Intel solutions, MP adopters are becoming miffed at the lack of planned development for dual K7 systems. AMD, of course, simply does not have the resources of Intel at it's disposal and must focus what it does have in the best way it can. The result is leaving potential key areas twisting in the wind, so to speak. Another implication is the further dependancy on the success of the Hammer.

The 500 units built by AMD in it's Beach Head program (whereby pre-production units are shipped out to system integrators/builders) are indeed all called for. In fact, some are being shared over remote connections, such is the demand.

Nvidia have officially announced their Hammer chipset with the Crush K8G. Imagine an nForce2 board designed to have a Hammer sitting in the driver's seat, if you will. Still rather disappointing in it's use of the GF 4 MX, although both integrated (whoops, sorry. I forgot, it's not called 'integrated' anymore, is it) and none, will of course carry AGP8X support.

Other chipset manufacturers announced include Via SiS and ALi.

So what now? Now, we sit and wait. You might wanna do some work to occupy your time :D

elvis
01-17-2003, 02:45 AM
AMD need to target the big players like Dell, IBM, HP/Compaq, Boxx, etc. They already have a few systems out with the two latter, which is a good start.

Players in teh market like you and I in the home instance don't mean a lot in the long run. It's people who ship millions of systems that are (a) a guaranteed market and (b) people feel comfortable with and will buy similar systems at home.

whatever happens, and whoever makes the biggest baddest and best bits, competition is ALWAYS a good thing. a direct result means you and I will pay less in the long term, as long as AMD are around to piss intel off. :)

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