suggestion

[The Time Serpent]

i like it

[Joel Hooks]

you realize how much time and effort these dudes put into this?

it's not like they are being paid, or recieve fame from it. They do it to be cool and provide us a resource (free of popups I might add) to test our skills against ourselves and others.

Not that your idea doesn't have merit, but it would add work to the contest, and there is nothing preventing people from texturing/lighting/animating their scenes, but for judging, flat-shaded only.

[Stygian]

I know I'm very new here and have no skills to speak of compared to most of you. I do aggree though that perhaps the voting should be broken down into categories. The Mods have declared that this month is a modeling challenge and I think we should support them in that. But we can make suggestions for the structuring of next months chalenge.

[Julez4001]

Think about it. Paschele and others of his Ilk comes in and blows the challenge to world recognition and now you are stripping away by making it a Modeling Only in judgement.

Category would be fine, great even if it allows Jonas, Matt Clark and Koryh and others to keep thier style. If the shade-only looks better than other's full rendered, then so be it.

Don't take power away from the people.

Spiraloid and InsideCg has forums for making modeling only , Lets keep the quality up to what the Trendsetters made it so no only we great looking stuff but we can something to shoot for.

And while there may be other months for other things, This topic is so nice ..FX, Halos, and Pshop would be even better.

Let keep the old rules : do what you do best

[Julez4001]

Oh, I know that the work that the moderators is a lot but the work that people ar eputting in there artwork forum is a lot, too. Because of it, CGtalk Challenges is becoming a cg world of mouth thing.

Just venting...

[El Tonio]

Suggestions are always cool, but in this precise case, more categories would mean more votes . And I got to admit that it is already a bit boring to vote in three categories that include more than 100 artworks to see .
I've been voting in the last month's three cat., I wouldn't have with 10 or 30 (imagine voting for "best vehicule texturing" or "best environnement concept" ? Arghhh I couldn't for the sake of my mind (and time) ) :D

[bibi5000]

It's not that important to win. This contest is for fun, so let's keep it nice and simple.

If someone does nice textures, lightning etc. it will be noticed, and I think that's reward enough. We're coming here to talk and improve our skills, not to win prizes and that's damn cool.

[sicean]

im not trying to cause trouble. people who know me know that ive always been notorious for doing just that in the past. so i'm always keeping myself in check. that's the purpose of this post.

in the end. it was just a suggestion. im not going to fight tooth and nail for it. and i do appreciate what the mods are doing for the underground 3d community.

im a confident modeler anyways. :thumbsup:

[henry]

right on bibi!! I TOTALLY AGREE :scream: Let's have fun :wavey:

[Julez4001]

Yeah you're thats what this challenge was built on fun and seeing talent people go all out in the process. Have Fun, fun, fun....

[paranoy2k]

Adding many categories would require much more time for administrator and would loose some sence for viewers/voters...

I agree with El Tonio...

When I posted the thread about the new restrictions I never had in mind they way cgchannel wanted to handle the challenge.

They want to do something different than what we are used to in other contest. Something more friendly that can help each others to learn more about the focused part of 3D. I noticed how much informations each thread can have about some tricks and techniques used by the user...It's definitively a good way to help beginners in their cg education.

Due to the response, I'm sure they will make an "Open Contest" based on Beauty and Originality one of these days. Maybe when the Lighting, Texturing and Animation will be covered they will decide to make this kind of contest...who knows? Until then, we always can try the contest on other cg sites and appreciate the quality of the work and originality cgchannel is doing with this forum.

:buttrock:

[Loki]

I just wanted to get in and say a few words on the rules for the contest. The contest is for the best modeling of a God/Demon, so it makes sense for it to be bare textured. The rules are not preventing you from texturing your works, just the final render should present your model and only your model. I had planned on texturing my piece as well but now I will concentrate on adding my detail through modeling.

Everybody that contributes to this is a winner and we all grow as artists every competition, and it shows. There does not have to be a hundred catagories to please everybody. (although it was a great attempt to try)

In the future, I am positive there will be more challenges that focus on textures, modeling, and/or animation because of the outcry these past 2 days. The ModGods decided that this was going to be an all modeling challenge, so instead of complaining that the final vote will be based on untextured items we can instead constrctivly work on our models and give feedback to those who want it.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

[cerreto]

Ok here we go !

I know where people are coming from the origional rule for those of you who are new was no textures ! we are just enforicing it now !

Why we are doing it !


we are trying to make difrent chalenges focusing on one variable at a time be it modeling /texturing /animation / with a month to focus on anly one you are forced to do the best at that thing modeling, texturing etc and not rush or short come one of them to finish the other in time and share techniques on the way

next month we will be having a texture compititon where you will have the
choice to use a past model entry or choose on e of several default models ( we need models for this btw volunteers )focusing strictly on texturing ! spend a month on a texture and show us something good !



the folowing month we will try animation etc focusing on ! animation Only


we think this is the best way to get and give people the opurtunity to do there best at each art and to work hard and still be able to keep track of everything keeping it fun !




We are trying to keep this what everyone wants and give what you ask for but there must be some guidlines or this might as well be the 3d crits forum if you feel like texturing its cool post it in your thread for the challenge post it in 3d crits we are not stoping anyone from this we just want the final images to be no textures for the modeling chalenge Wiro , matt clark etc did this and had great models and also did well in the end

please remeber that we have a goal and want to see great work


so hopefully people will actualy read this and take a positve aproach to all the people who have sent me and the other moderators positve feedback thank you it is very apreciated ! we need it lol , and we do want to hear your opinions but also look at what we are trying to do its not a chalenge like every other forum we have a good thing i think which is why so many come here . Obviusly we are doing something good at least i hope and as far as restrictions this month there are like only 2 WOW how can that be restrictive now i hope we can focus all this on the chalenge wips and get on with it good luck all !

[lildragon]

To add to this , the texturing challenge will go hand in hand with lighting, it's a must really :)

What we're trying to do is help you build a killer reel, think of this as a hands on schooling program, (you all know how expensive those are ;) ) and now we're assisting you to become better in different positions so you can be a better asset to the industry..

This is a fun learning challenge, with a competitive spirit, to really get your juices going :), it will focus on different subjects each month, or maybe have a double month of modeling, who knows. Take next month for example, we could have 2 weeks of solid texture work then the last two lighting, in the end everyone gains vast knowledge... because these two are extremely tough to figure out effectively to this day

believe me you learn so much quicker hands on :)

so have fun and good luck, and please please try to understand where we're coming from

a su salud :beer:

[sicean]

once again, i apologise if i reignited an issue that had subsided. i thought i retracted my arguement in the previous post, but the discussion kept going and escalated into another great debate. not my intention.

after reading the posts i tend to agree that this will be the best way to aproach the challenge. im always causing trouble. i need to be more careful in the future.

im glad we all have a place we can push each other to become better, and i intend to have a blast.

again, i apologise. good intentions don't justify saving face.

[Henrik Hörlin]

Allright look...
I think I see a fundamental problem here. :lightbulb
Some of you are using the word CHALLENGE where others use the word CONTEST.
There is a differance between these words and meaning. It is true that this challenge/contest is just... well... a challangeing contest. But half of you see only one word and the other see the other word.

My opinion is this:
If you want a Challenge there shuld be NO rules, just an effort to try to impress the hell out of everybody doing what the contender does best. May it be modelling, texturing, lighting or whatever. There can be no winner in this, only more/less popular results. Also a good way for spreading tips and knowledge.
If you want a Contest you got to have rules and anyone who brakes ANY of the rules shuld be taken out of the contest. Here you can have a vinner.

Now, to some, a challenge is to be creative with a set of rules and make the best of it (MacGyverism). These people like a little more structure in their work and like goals.
Others se a challange as an oppertunety to blow peoples minds with unpresidented qualety in originality, beuty, concept or whatever (Artism). These people like to surprice you with their ingenuety and creative minds and do not like the confinds of rules. (which gets in the way in the creative process):rolleyes: :)

An un-educated guess would be that many people that work with 3D on a professional level recognice themselves in the first description while artists and freelance people see themselves as part of the second description.

If it´s a learning experience you (the mods) want, why do we vote for a finalist, a best (whatever), a winner? Surely we´re all winners in the end anyway? It´s a WIP-forum.

In the January WIP-challenge it was the final picture that mattered... this has changed a little for march, yes? How would you judge the best model? Best use of polys or CVs? The shape? Complexety? Best original XXXXX? If the technical aspects are exlusive in the final verdict you have a contest. If anything is mesured in opinions (its´s nice, it has just the "right" amount of...) I concider it to be a challenge and shuld therefor have no restrictions concidering textures, lights a.s.o.

This may look like completly caotic babeling... and to some extent it is. It is late...
Answers to questions have been answered while I was writing this, (I´m slow), BUT the bottom line is: This is a place to get good at 3D, and it shuld be fun doing it! It dosn´t matter if it´s a contest or a challenge, what matters is the end result: A great reel to show the world!
/peace.
:bounce: :buttrock:

[Lonewolf]

And as stated by lildragon, now that there are prizes involved, it has become a contest in nature rather than a challenge. In February's challenge, there are many textured and lit scenes on the voting page, but there was no prize in question. Now that there is actually something to be won, it is very important that everyone follow the same guidelines. It was already stated that the focus of this challenge was modeling and that there would be texturing challenges in the future. Point is this is a modeling challenge/contest and with prizes, everyone must play on a level battlefield.

[Joel Hooks]

The irony I think is that people that could use New Rider's books are the ones that will never win any contest :)

[Lonewolf]

Very true:)

[El Tonio]

If someone wants to texture/animate/light his model, he implicitly says : "I'm not going for the reward" . But why not ?
As it's been said, most of people who are able of doing so (going for the entire process) don't need the reward (which might be a how-to book) .
The remaining question would be : are those people going for the voting stage anyway ?

[pearson]

Cerreto & Lildragon - Sweet! I, for one, am very glad that the contests are going to focus on one area only and change that focus each contest.

And for those who want a no-holds-barred, blow-'em-away-with-everything-you've-got approach, with no rules to tie you down at all, there is now a section for you: http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=30 :p :D

Lowdown - LOL! Sad but true. Maybe we should all be competing for lolypops. Everybody can use a sugar fix! :bounce:

[Sangotten]

My question is:

Is there any place for 2D enties when the challenge is mainly about modeling? Do you even have a chance if you make your GOD/Demon in 2D???

Since the discusion is runnig everybody is talking about, texture this and lighting that....but for a 2D piece you need to do all of it or else you have (allmost) nothing to show....
And a modeling challenge is some way...IMPOSSIBLE for a 2D piece, do you see anyone draw the bone structure or every polygon?

So does some one who is making a 2D piece follow the same rules? I hope not.....(it would hard!)

[SEL]

Im actaully really tired of all the bickering in here, there was none of this the first challenge!! Anyone that reads this understand these points. This is for your benefit only, if you want to impress somebody on the net, go get a job at ILM or PIXAR. You must understand, as I have been reading over and over that this thing is to learn and get better, I for one am only doing these challenges to better my skills, as well as it gives me the motivation to try to complete something and make it good within a short amount of time. Ive noticed many people in here are young kids, or college kids etc. Understand that you as well as everyone in here are lucky to even have this thing here for nothing of this calibur existed on the Net until now. Jean Eric and the rest of the moderators are doing a damn good job hosting these things for you guys. They really didnt have to. As I see it, if it states modeling challenge, then model, and it will be up to you if you want to turn it in for votes at the end, but that does not mean you have to stop there, take it the next level and texture and light it and even animate it if you like the character. Then add it to a future demo reel. Im just sick of all these people argueing!!! :shame: If you want to make it in the industry, you need to worry about yourself, it is up to you to come up with a kick ass demo reel, im happy cgchannel supports us in develpoing them.. I am a freelance sculptor and artist and only been doing maya for a year now, this is the perfect opportunity for anyone with an art related background to take it to the next level. Truthfully I can care less if no one responds to my thread, as long as im doing my best and learning in the process is what counts in this all. Good luck on all your entries for the month...

shaun
my 3 cents.............

[lildragon]

very well put shaun

heheh good one pearson ;) that's what we've been trying to say :) and Sangotten that's why 2D has a handicapp, because if you don't light, texture it, all you bascially have is line art, but there's some line art that blows you away http://www.artbyfeng.com/

but 2D will have a handicap, we'll state it in the rules more next time..

Speaking of rules, we'll have to solidfy them for next challenge most definitely, just to keep the noise down.

and about the book well one person may kill at modeling, but really suck at texturing and lighting, and even animating :) so there's plenty of chances to show your stuff ;)

I for one don't consider a book a prize, it's just an extension of knowledge to me, now if you were going to win a $10,000 puter, now that's a prize :eek: which would make this a contest, which it's not :) it's all about the knowledge here people.

and hey if I'm so lucky to get a New riders book at the end of this, I will personally donate it to those who need it more, honestly and that's the friendly atmosphere we want here.

a su salud :beer:

[clifford]

And anyway, you can make your own contest, no ?
You just need a web site to host final pictures, you have the cgtalk forum for WIPs and you can also use polls to collect votes ...
so if you're in 2D, why not starting a 2D contest (with a different challenge than the 3D one) ...

The moderators are doing all this work for fun and mainly for us so do not even think to blame them ...

I'm not really good at modeling and I learn a lot reading the challenge posts ... so, in a way, i'm a winner :D

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