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RobertoOrtiz
07-03-2006, 04:45 PM
Hey guys,
I am VERY concerned about the lack of entries for this challenge.
What happened?
What should have been done different?

Looking forward to your comments.

-R

NRG-Alpha
07-03-2006, 04:56 PM
I think part of the problem may be that it seems these challenges may be too focused on 'renissance' era pieces.. Not only that.. you guys just did the Stature of David not too long ago.

Roberto, although I don't participate in these challenges, perhaps a few suggestions here are in order.

a) Try to do various types of subjects (not just renissance stuff). Even modern day small objects can prove difficult (depending on what the subject is of course). A wide range of variety could be a great motivational boost. As it currently stands, although we went from a statue to a building, back to a character, the era (as well as the subject of choice) doesn't seem too 'spontaneous?' or enough of a different mix.

b) Perhaps offering the users some options as to what subjects they would like to model would also help out.

As for this challenge, perhaps it is because they just went through the statue of David not too long ago?

Just my thought.. no offense intended.

Cheers,

NRG

kirouac
07-03-2006, 06:24 PM
Sorry for this one but for the moment free time is something rare, maybe i'll try the head but for the moment i have no free time to begin it.


Maybe it is the fact that it's not something real ( in 3D ) like the last 2 subjects.

IMO

jbacker99
07-03-2006, 06:33 PM
Its just not a very intriguing topic. We just did did a male project. Its tough, I think you should pick 2 or 3 topics and then have everyone vote on it. Recreating a simple sketch is just not very difficult in my opinion. Recreating a painting, thats different, that would be extremely difficult. I cant really even think of a good topic to do after already doing the David. I counted 2 entires to this competiton, and they've hardly started. The great thing about the David was how many refrences we had. We had the scan view and the 2d images. With the Vitruvian man, we have the one sketch, and thats all. I just thought of an idea for a project, maybe a human skeleton. Seems like it would be difficult, and ive never done anything like that.

fx81
07-03-2006, 07:14 PM
my 2.5 cents:

this particular challenge may not seem challenging to all, either tachnically or aesthetically. at least compared to the complexity of tha last challenge.
also, this challenge has too much room for interpretation. some may call that more room for creativity but i call it more room for happy accidents. besides as others have mentioned, that last challenge was also an male human anatomy exercise.
now i know that its hard to avoid any and all anatomy (male or female) in an organic topic selection so i personally suggested doing a likeness of a real person. achieving a likeness of a real person is very hard for me and everyone i think and it seems to be a good selection for organic modeling.
so for next organic HMC i suggest a likeness contest. pick 5 real life people you think are worth modeling. then have cgtalkers vote on them. the vote shouldnt last too long so that poople dont start modeling before vote ends by just assuming the favorable outcome. may be make it a 1-2 day vote.

RobertoOrtiz
07-03-2006, 07:14 PM
Good comments so far!
Keep em coming!
-R

fx81
07-03-2006, 07:20 PM
btw, forgot to mention that no matter what topic you selected its very clear how much effort you continue to put into this HMC.

the last organic challenge was lots of fun for me and i hope to participate more in the future.

So keep it UP and THANKS!

Clanger
07-03-2006, 08:47 PM
I quite like this topic, though admittedly I'm not someone who has just done the David!
Plus I don't think this is easy at all, maybe a simplified version yes but modeling any human right down to the vain and pore level UV Map and texture, all in your spare time inside 3 weeks is going to be a challenge for anyone.
If you still think you can model this in your sleep then go the extra mile and make this figure so realistic everyone thinks you cheated and photographed someone.
I think modeling something far more complicated is easier as you can lose the quality in the details and know one notices.

Rod Seffen
07-03-2006, 09:22 PM
Modeling a male figure in t-stance, just isn't interesting after having done David. As I've already said in the other thread, there isn't even any detail in the drawing, so it's just a matter of adding your own generic anatomy, which isn't really much of a challenge for anyone who's done any character modeling before.
If you're going to have us translate 2d to 3d, then make it an interesting painting with plenty going on in it, something to get the artistic juices flowing. Also, I personally dislike Da Vinci, and all his works, I think he's quite over-rated. I've already said almost any Vermeer would be a perfect subject to extrapolate to 3d, since he painted in quite a 3d way, and would be very interesing and challenging.

fx81
07-03-2006, 10:05 PM
for 2d image to 3d translation Vermeer paintings are good choice. but they have mostly environment/props and a little bit of organic modeling. also most of work is in shading, lighting and rendering. so they cant really be called organic subjects.

Nux
07-04-2006, 04:19 AM
i think that probably one of the main reasons this isn't so popular is because of a lack of reference. the subject is too simple. as it has already been stated, it isn't that challenging, really you can create any male model and use it.

i'm totally new to everything cg, the reason i jumped on was because i'm a noob and i thought this would be something i could handle. (perhaps a bad sign).

with two entries the challenge hardly seems worth while.

SweD
07-04-2006, 12:13 PM
IMHO maybe too much human model in few time ?
The david first, the vitruvian now, and maybe some people are engaged and interested on the Rebbecca's challenge on 10-15 3D faces modeling in the month in the lesson 1 of the anatomic.

In second time i think fx81 is right on one thing : cgtalkers vote.
It's for me the better way to be 80% sure on the challengers number if people vote for own choice to create.

MrJames
07-04-2006, 12:39 PM
Although I think doing the David was a great start. I think the challenges could sometimes be more open.

I quite like the idea of modelling a famous person from history, a general or scholar etc... This way people could choose a subject that they like and feel more attached to their piece rather than everyone modelling the same thing... Although sometimes a challenge like The David or Big Ben is great I think a bit of openess wouldn't go amiss and I should think more people would enter...

I remember someone suggested modelling a greyhound in motion, I thought that was a fantastic idea; modelling an animal in motion challenge would be great.

jbacker99
07-04-2006, 04:25 PM
Ya I agree with MrJames recreating someone from history would be a cool idea, but it would also be difficult because there may be no front or side view of them which would make it interesting. I think we would all benefit from doing something like that.

gaiXyn
07-04-2006, 05:28 PM
Part of the hardcore challenge is to model something that's out of the blue....I don't think I would of choose to Model David on my own accord ( I don't think much of us would ).....I do like the idea of having the CGtalkers vote on it.....I don't think we the modelers should have too much say....it is a challenge after all......

Not to say we can't offer ideas.....but base on the ideas we present.....RobertoOrtiz should then be able to turn around and come up w/ an awesome challenge that would suit the masses and giving the challenge some kind of appeal.....like someone said, this isn't really challenging after modeling David....and references is an issue b/c you don't want too leave too much room for interpretation.....

so good references....it being challenging......and making it attractive is a must for this kind of thing......

Easier said than done of course!! :)

MrJames
07-04-2006, 09:13 PM
Ya I agree with MrJames recreating someone from history would be a cool idea, but it would also be difficult because there may be no front or side view of them which would make it interesting. I think we would all benefit from doing something like that.

Yeah reference will be a challenge to find, but not too hard. Think how many pictures there are out there for Winston Churchill... A bit of research and photoshop and i'm sure you can piece something together to a good standard. Also once you have the base proportions down I'm sure you could model well enough to come up with something that is a good likeness without straight forward front and side views.. I've seen a lot of good likenesses people have modelled here that I'm sure weren't modelled off of standard orthagraphic pictures.

BobbyB
07-05-2006, 03:00 AM
Id like to add a problem that most of you will probably over look.

The fact that heaps of people did nothing but winge about the new challenge.Who would want the be part of a challenge that every one has just put down as being boring and not worth doing.

If i get a chance between looking for a new apartment and work ill deffinately jump in and give it a go.

The quality of work for the last 2 challenges has not been that high. Only a handfull of people that start the challenge actually finish it and the quality of those final entries could be a lot higher.

This challenge should have been a good one for a lot of people to get involve because it does have the element of individual interpretation.

And to top it off, to try to get some people involved. To all those people that have writen the challenge off as to easy. Do the challenge and show us all how easy it is

What are you, YELLA.

gaiXyn
07-05-2006, 03:36 AM
Id like to add a problem that most of you will probably over look.

The fact that heaps of people did nothing but winge about the new challenge.Who would want the be part of a challenge that every one has just put down as being boring and not worth doing.

If i get a chance between looking for a new apartment and work ill deffinately jump in and give it a go.

The quality of work for the last 2 challenges has not been that high. Only a handfull of people that start the challenge actually finish it and the quality of those final entries could be a lot higher.

This challenge should have been a good one for a lot of people to get involve because it does have the element of individual interpretation.

And to top it off, to try to get some people involved. To all those people that have writen the challenge off as to easy. Do the challenge and show us all how easy it is

What are you, YELLA.

no one's implying that it's easy in the sense that you can get it done in an hour.....modeling the human form is never easy.....but looking at the first two challenges?.....I would say it's lacking....as for the entries for the first two challenges.....they were pretty highEnd in quaily IMO......

RobertoOrtiz
07-05-2006, 06:41 AM
no one's implying that it's easy in the sense that you can get it done in an hour.....modeling the human form is never easy.....but looking at the first two challenges?.....I would say it's lacking....as for the entries for the first two challenges.....they were pretty highEnd in quaily IMO......

I happen tp agree with this.
I am very happy with the quality of all participants in ALL our modeling challenges.
I am just dissapointed in the current one.


Having said that, I WILL go all the way for this challenge (I like ot finish what I start)
so if you are participating in this one, you might win by just simply FINISHING your entry.


-R

Rod Seffen
07-05-2006, 09:22 AM
If i get a chance between looking for a new apartment and work ill deffinately jump in and give it a go.

The quality of work for the last 2 challenges has not been that high. Only a handfull of people that start the challenge actually finish it and the quality of those final entries could be a lot higher.



OF course not many people finish these challenges, you fool. You yourself say you haven't had the time for any of them, so what makes you think a lot of other peope have?
THe very nature of these challenges is to spend 50+ hours modeling in the space of a few weeks. That's a hell of a commitment, so I don't think you can ever expect to have 50 finished entries, no matter how cool the challenge is.

jojo1975
07-05-2006, 11:00 AM
sorry DUP post

jojo1975
07-05-2006, 11:05 AM
My Two cent about this topic.
First of all as an italian I cannot say i dislike Leonardo da vinci's work. I don't partecipate since i'm not a good organic modeller. I like 3d but I'm not a pro. I would like to spend more in modelling but i spend the most part of my day in a laboratory, and surely for organic I guess I would need some "art" background that i have not ,this is why while I find more confortable in architectures and inorganic.

I partecipate to the last challenge and finished my entry but I have to admit one mistake.
In the last days I tryed to concentrate on texturing and lightning and I was wrong.
In my opinion hardcore modelling challenge should not contain textured models or "beauty render" .. I mean
-two weeks for the modelling
-voting (at least one week since people seemed lazy in voting) linked directly to the entry of the artist (also to see the workflow)
-then a gallery with renderers where people could post also "beauty" textured renderer

texturing and lightning it's very time consuming :( also same time as modelling
(so I've learned in the last challenge that my workflow was wrong :wise:)

then about the choosing of the topic.
I prefer a "forum leader" who suggest topics that HAVE to include also MASTERPIECES and art and also "serious" topic (I love "Rinascimento", I have to admit). Challenge can be useful for creating "generic" portfolio and to show skills in general.
i love sci-fi, blockbusters and so on, but can you portait the difference to show someone (I mean parents, boss, girlfriends etc etc) the reproduced 3d model of a blockbuster character or of the London bridge for example or a Raffaello's painting ?
First reaction..oh that's cool what's that ..oh a comic character.. and where did you find it ? Oh you modelled it.. nice
Second reaction ehy did you do it ? All that crazy modelling ? it's not a photo ?
How you make it ? do you mean you REALLY modelled it ?

I mean I repeat..I love ALL topics.. but since we spend time in modelling (at least 50 hrs or more) probably we could try to optimize the benefits we take from this challenges :D

Probably my post seems a bit crazy but I'm alseep since ITALY is in the FINAL :) (OT I know)


@Roberto Sent you a PM about last challenge but received no answer :(

Cheers to all

Giorgio

Stahlberg
07-05-2006, 11:06 AM
So from Roberto's last post I take it this is still on? I thought it would be a good little test project for Mudbox, think I'll have a swing at it.

Rod Seffen
07-05-2006, 01:38 PM
If you want more entries, then your only choice is to do it the old fashioned way - offer a big prize for the winner.
That's the fickle nature of people around here (and everywhere lese for that matter)
I guarantee if you offered a big prize, there would suddently be a hundred finished entries.
What this says is that people are only interested in making CG for commercial gain and not for the sake of art and personal learning.
Sad but true.

MrJames
07-05-2006, 05:13 PM
Not sure I totally agree with that. There are many challenges without rewards that people participate in. I think the subject choice is key. Take a look at the Game Art Challenge entries; month before last about three people entered, then, when the Super Shiney Vehicle challenge began there was about ten times more people entering.

fx81
07-05-2006, 05:57 PM
So from Roberto's last post I take it this is still on? I thought it would be a good little test project for Mudbox, think I'll have a swing at it.

that would be cool if you participate Mr. Stahlberg. and enough motivation for more artists to participate :scream:. i might give Mudbox a try too.

Rod Seffen
07-05-2006, 10:59 PM
Not sure I totally agree with that. There are many challenges without rewards that people participate in. I think the subject choice is key. Take a look at the Game Art Challenge entries; month before last about three people entered, then, when the Super Shiney Vehicle challenge began there was about ten times more people entering.

Yes, but 8 actual fnished entries.

THe rule is simple, if there is a big prize then people make time to finish, if it's 'just for fun' then all but a few people just can't be bothered. I'm just saying that you should never expect more than a few finished quality entires for any of these unoffical challenges, but as long as the quality of the few finished entires is good, then it's worth it, and I see all of the various challenge threads throwing up a lot of good final products.

Funxer
07-15-2006, 01:19 AM
I think what would be interesting in this challenge is to model, texture and light your scene in such a way that it looks like the drawing. Sepia toned textures, only define the muscles that are visible in the original drawing, use a toon shader for the line work. If your looking for a challenge... recreate the original to the 'T' in 3d, make it look 2d!

MrJames
07-15-2006, 01:54 AM
I think what would be interesting in this challenge is to model, texture and light your scene in such a way that it looks like the drawing. Sepia toned textures, only define the muscles that are visible in the original drawing, use a toon shader for the line work. If your looking for a challenge... recreate the original to the 'T' in 3d, make it look 2d!

Yes, that would be nice, but I think the challenge should stay rooted in the modlling rather than the shading...

zem
07-17-2006, 09:25 AM
What I like about the challanges is that you can choose to just focus on a detail. This is hard of course, since I often want to do more than I have time with. With the Big Ben challenge I had to quit due to freelance work. Had I focused on a smaller detail I might have been able to finish.

I agree with the point made that the Vitruvian Man came to close to the David. Perhaps for the next anatomy focused challange, we could go more modern, using a character from a movie or tv-series? Leia in her slave pet outfit perhaps. :D

Vehicles seem to always draw the crowds. Perhaps a large cruiseship or a space shuttle?

Modeling a rhino or a lion or some other animal would be difficult as hell. And since they look pretty much the same, reference photos should be a breeze.

Tech gadgets perhaps? Would be cool to model the old sony walkman, including a c-60 mixed tape. :)

Recreating a character from an animated movie could be fun.

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