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View Full Version : Is Shake worth buying a mac for?


sacslacker
06-30-2006, 12:17 AM
Ok, I'm a PC guy. Always have been and probably always will be *ducks*. However, I've never been one of the anti-mac guys.

Now Shake is $500. I've always wanted Shake but I don't have a mac. So I find myself in a weird position. Do I actually go out and buy a Mac???? Dear god, am I considering this???

The answer is yes, I'm seriously considering this. More specificially a macbook pro. Would you guys think that a macbook pro would work for Shake. I'm thinking it would but I'd like to be sure. Also, is Shake node locked to the workstation/laptop or is it dongle based. Can it be moved to say a G5 if needed?

I was looking into Fusion but I think I can get Shake + a mac for cheaper now. Crazy Stuff!!!

rblitz7
06-30-2006, 12:33 AM
Now I dont know much about shake..but I love macs they look great and perform flawlessly, I highly reccomend you to just take a trip to an apple retail store and try it out for yourself. Im not sure if shake is installed on the workstations though.

sacslacker
06-30-2006, 01:23 AM
Yeah, I almost feel ridiculous asking if I should buy a Mac for some software, heh. Oh well, I'm secure in my ridiculousness! =)

Thanks for the idea of checking out an Apple store. I'm not sure we have one of those up here in Sacramento. I'll be in SF this weekend so I'll stop by and play.

I've used Macs before in various other companies and the video editing was sweet of course but I've always been able to do what I've needed just fine on the PC. I've been needing/wanting to get a more powerful compositor and the node based flow of Shake or Fusion is right up my ally. The Shake deal may have just pushed me to buy my first mac.

After saying that I'm going to go wash my mouth out with soap! =)

scorpion007
06-30-2006, 01:32 AM
shake works on linux too, although last I heard the pricedrop didn't occur there. Pity.

WesVasher
06-30-2006, 04:35 AM
Shake 4.1 (the $500 version) is no longer node locked, meaning you can install it on your G5 at home and your MacBook Pro on the go... also 4.1 is now universal which means you can run it on PowerPC or Intel. One installer. Of course the nice thing about any Intel Mac is you can partition and boot into Windows full speed.

Shake is very nice and quite a deal at the new price. Also, the universal version is supposed to really fly on MacBook Pros.

Myliobatidae
06-30-2006, 05:23 AM
I would say yes, for me I always wanted FCP, but never wanted to buy a Mac just for that, but things have changed, now you can use the really great Mac software i.e. FCP and shake on what most would say is its native environment OSX, and still be able to boot into windows to use all your windows software, its like a nerds dream come true, so yes, I think you'll get lots of use out of it, long after they've stopped making it, and certainly get your money's worth...

scrimski
06-30-2006, 08:55 AM
I was looking into Fusion but I think I can get Shake + a mac for cheaper now. Crazy Stuff!!!

Thought about the same, buying Shake+FCP and a G5.
Unbeatable price.

Cosmo
06-30-2006, 10:47 AM
Be wise. Buy an Intel based Mac.
The Mac Pro workstations probably will be released in August.

beaker
06-30-2006, 08:25 PM
Read the thread about running shake on a laptop. The monitor is a little small for the ui, especially for any major work but it does work.

boutwell
06-30-2006, 09:55 PM
I'll be learning and tinkering with Shake on my Powerbook until the Intel workstations get released (August hopefully). Then it'll be showtime. Hopefully Maya gets a universal binary around the same time (Siggraph). That would be a nice late summer two-fer special.

DoubleSupercool
07-01-2006, 11:23 AM
At my new job I am back on a Mac after about 13 years and have been using Shake for the first time.

I have to say I love it. It is much more intuitive to me than say, Fusion (the PC "Equivalent"). I won't go on about the relative merits of either, but Shake seems more "obvious" to me. Given that Apple have indicated that there will essentially be a professional Shake replacement in the near future, I would still feel comfortable picking it up to learn it.

Now, I have been moving away from 3D and focusing more on compositing, so the argument that I need the PC for particular apps is starting to get a few holes in it. Then we get intel Macs. Then bootcamp. Then I have the 1231289712-982080102-23984098th issue with my PC (new monitor and video card won't talk to each other). Suddenly my next major purchase is looking more like a Mac.

I am looking at it this way: my next computer purchase, in about 1-1.5 years, will be a biggy . . . a complete replacement. I am looking at getting a Mac for that and building my own cheap PC for any PC only software I might need to use.

JimPanse
07-02-2006, 05:22 PM
Hi,
do you think an intel based Mac Mini ( with ~1 GB RAM) is enough to run Shake properly or is it wiser to buy an iMac.
To me it seems the only weak thing about the Mini Mac is the video card, but I don't think that Shake needs much 3d-power right?
I have no clue about Macs at all, but I always wanted to have one and now I have a good reason to buy one.
I am an animator not a composer and I would use it for smaller personal projects and probably for my Animationmentor shortfilm.

It would be nice if someone could help me with my decision.




Thanks

DoubleSupercool
07-03-2006, 11:44 PM
Still, you would want to be running a pretty decent sized screen or else the UI would be very cluttered and RAM for flipbook previews is a good thing.

beaker
07-04-2006, 08:17 PM
The biggest deal with a macmini is the hard drive is slow. I would suggest a 7200 rpm drive for the internal one and also a firewire 800 external one for your media.

Dreamabyss
07-18-2006, 03:33 AM
Yeah, I almost feel ridiculous asking if I should buy a Mac for some software, heh. Oh well, I'm secure in my ridiculousness! =)

Thanks for the idea of checking out an Apple store. I'm not sure we have one of those up here in Sacramento. I'll be in SF this weekend so I'll stop by and play.


You don't have to apologize for using a Mac. They are good machines and the OS is awesome. Anyway, you can check out a Mac at the Applestore at Arden Fair Mall. If you call ahead and tell them you are interested in Shake, they might install it on a floor demo for you. Actually, they probably already have Shake on the demos but I'm not sure.

I also read (somewhere) that Shake 4.01 is running really nice on MacbookPro. I'd get the 17' though... or the 15" and an external monitor. If you can hold off a couple of months, the laptops are probably going to get Merom chips and they are much faster than the currently shipping Yonah.

I've always believed that you decide on what software you need and then pick the best machine to run it. You are on the right track if you want an affordable solution with Shake. Otherwise, you could check out Linux.

pixelmonk
07-18-2006, 07:43 PM
The biggest deal with a macmini is the hard drive is slow. I would suggest a 7200 rpm drive for the internal one and also a firewire 800 external one for your media.

I installed Shake for a fxphd class on a friend's mini he let me borrow while he was on vacation. It ran ok.. and i think it was one of the "older" g4 minis.

rebo
07-18-2006, 09:44 PM
If you need a laptop anyway I'd suggest the specced out 15 inch mac book pro and hook it up to an extenal monitor at home. This gives you the screen real estate of a larger laptop with the great portability of a 15 inch laptop.

MikeMD
07-21-2006, 04:41 AM
I was looking into Fusion but I think I can get Shake + a mac for cheaper now. Crazy Stuff!!!


It's like saying you were looking into a Ferrari, but then you could get a pickup truck and load it with 700 pounds of ham for less.

It'll still get you there, and maybe you like ham, but a Ferrari is a Ferrari

beaker
07-21-2006, 05:57 AM
It's like saying you were looking into a Ferrari, but then you could get a pickup truck and load it with 700 pounds of ham for less.

It'll still get you there, and maybe you like ham, but a Ferrari is a FerrariNot quite. Even though Shake has been canceled, it is still very powerful and has many advantages over Fusion (and vs versa). Fusion 5 is still a very new product and quite buggy compared to Shake.

Maybe a Ferrari with an engine that breaks down every 250 miles :)

MikeMD
07-21-2006, 04:03 PM
Hmmm, not really. It is like a Ferrari and a pickup truck.

I'm not one of the experts, but those who help develop both and make a living using both, selling DVD lessons for both seem to agree that Fusion is way ahead ( just 3D and particles alone are something shake can't touch, while everything else you can do in Fusion just as well ). Shake has been pretty buggy since Apple bought it, Fusion5 was buggy at release, but we are way beyond that now. You could still use Fusion 4 which never crashed and be ahead of shake. Shake is a 7-8 year old app, Apple never did anything to improve it ( some say they screwed it up ).

Not to stray away from the thread. If he only has a couple of grand to spend then he may have no choice since Fusion is 5K, but if you can buy a used version on e-bay then upgrade, it could be only 2K, and then it really makes no sense buying shake, unless for some weird reason you prefer it. I'd suggest playing with Fusion learning edition ( if he hasn't already ) and see how it goes. When you really get to know fusion, there are many, many things shake can't touch. The difference is much greater than what a casual user would lead you to believe.

beaker
07-22-2006, 12:14 AM
Your opinions are all by your own admission from what other people have told you. Lots of misinformation you seem to have collected there. From reading though your older posts you seem to blindly hate anything that comes out from Apple and form opinions likewise. Any response to this will just end up in some BS my dick is bigger then yours fight that isn't worth fighting.

BTW, I'm not a "casual user". I have used Shake, Fusion, AE, Combustion on many different feature films, music videos, commercials, etc.... My opinions are based on experience, not from what I read or what people told me.

Though one thing I agree with is going out and trying the demos. That is the only true way to form your own opinion on this software.

Saturn
07-22-2006, 10:55 AM
Hmmm, not really. It is like a Ferrari and a pickup truck.

I'm not one of the experts, but those who help develop both and make a living using both, selling DVD lessons for both seem to agree that Fusion is way ahead ( just 3D and particles alone are something shake can't touch, while everything else you can do in Fusion just as well ). Shake has been pretty buggy since Apple bought it, Fusion5 was buggy at release, but we are way beyond that now. You could still use Fusion 4 which never crashed and be ahead of shake. Shake is a 7-8 year old app, Apple never did anything to improve it ( some say they screwed it up ).

Not to stray away from the thread. If he only has a couple of grand to spend then he may have no choice since Fusion is 5K, but if you can buy a used version on e-bay then upgrade, it could be only 2K, and then it really makes no sense buying shake, unless for some weird reason you prefer it. I'd suggest playing with Fusion learning edition ( if he hasn't already ) and see how it goes. When you really get to know fusion, there are many, many things shake can't touch. The difference is much greater than what a casual user would lead you to believe.

How many times do you use particle in comp ? From my experience never.
I have a look to shake 4.1 recently and compared to the version of windows plateform it's not true to say nothing was improved. It's the opposite. A lot of new node help you to do the job and the lot of little UI improvement make your life much easier.

About DF, DF 4 was very stable. DF 5 crash every time. But the most important thing is it 's a really a big pain to use DF in production. Specially when you have a shake background. Now the extra features in DF that you don't have in shake well you don't really use it everyday.

Sorry to be negative about DF but I really beleaved in DF and I was really dispointed. Even AE is easier to use !

Aneks
07-23-2006, 07:58 AM
I'm not one of the experts, but those who help develop both and make a living using both, selling DVD lessons for both seem to agree that Fusion is way ahead ( just 3D and particles alone are something shake can't touch, while everything else you can do in Fusion just as well ). Shake has been pretty buggy since Apple bought it, Fusion5 was buggy at release, but we are way beyond that now. You could still use Fusion 4 which never crashed and be ahead of shake.



Who is this expert you are refeing to ?? Sure fusion 5 has some awesome options. Heck most apps have crazy bells and whistles. I still prefer Shake to anything else. Never say never, I could get fusion to crash pretty well. Shake 3.5 and ESPECIALLY shake 4 was very stable. If shake is so dicey then why are so many of the highend studios using it ? Even ILM are basing there comp dept. on it now !!!

matteline
07-24-2006, 11:41 AM
I love threads like this...

... Any compositing program, commercial or open source (yes I said it) can and does the job every time. Studios and artists all over the world use tools adopted by both company and or artist. Additionally, all programs crash, especially when pushed to the limits the way we usually push them in production.... even on a Mac, and of course on a Windows box.

Back to the thread title... is Shake worth buying a Mac for? Depends on many things. Are you a lifetime Windows user (PC, at least you are) looking to add Shake? Have you ever used a Mac? Willing to learn a new OS as well as a new application? Do you have the extra cash to drop on said MacBook Pro? What is your experience in compositing? Do you really need Shake? How deep is your toolset? It matters not what the tool is. It is the work that speaks loudest.

Use what you are comfortable with. When I was compositing in the trenches I used Combustion, Fusion, and Nuke both on laptops and boxes. Not until I got into supervision and management did I venture into the land of Shake (since 2.5 on PC)... and on Linux to boot! Personally I think Nuke is the bomb! Pardon the pun!

I'd just keep using the tools you have. Unless a studio is in crunch time and just looking for a warm body that knows the application and is willing to take any skill level, bank on kickin work in your current application of choice. Save your money.

Hope this does not fan flames...

Cheers,
Scott

1000101
07-24-2006, 07:18 PM
It's like saying you were looking into a Ferrari, but then you could get a pickup truck and load it with 700 pounds of ham for less.

It'll still get you there, and maybe you like ham, but a Ferrari is a Ferrari


Hmmm, not really. It is like a Ferrari and a pickup truck.


I have this theory that it's impossible to mention an apple product without someone bringing up an absolutely pointless and irrelevant car anology. Seriously people, cars and computers don't go hand in hand and the relationship between Apple and brand X is nothing like the relationship between ferrari, BMW, mercedes, toyota, ford, or yugo.


Also; 3rd hand anecdotal evidence has never been a good foundation for any argument. I realize it's 'vogue' to hate all things Apple but try to be slightly objective.

almux
08-03-2006, 04:51 PM
Ok, I'm a PC guy. Always have been and probably always will be *ducks*. However, I've never been one of the anti-mac guys.

Now Shake is $500. I've always wanted Shake but I don't have a mac. So I find myself in a weird position. Do I actually go out and buy a Mac???? Dear god, am I considering this???

The answer is yes, I'm seriously considering this. More specificially a macbook pro. Would you guys think that a macbook pro would work for Shake. I'm thinking it would but I'd like to be sure. Also, is Shake node locked to the workstation/laptop or is it dongle based. Can it be moved to say a G5 if needed?

I was looking into Fusion but I think I can get Shake + a mac for cheaper now. Crazy Stuff!!!

;) Last year I was questionning myself: "Is Maya worth buying a PC?"... He! He! See?
Now I know I'll just upgrade my Mac hardware at the end of the year, because there's no more problem about booting on another OS.
Shake is a pretty high performing tool, and my guess is that, of course, it can eventually run on a new core 2 duo portable Mac... Yet I would suggest to wait a bit and get one of the announced Intel based MacPros workstations to handle serious tasks with Shake.
The other reason is: you'll have a super PC with your Mac too... and keep running your Windows or Linux apps within the same great machine.

rebuilder
08-24-2006, 11:01 PM
Yea, Shake is available for Linux... For $4999. I guess that's Apple's way of saying "buy a Mac".

But anyway, if you'll get use out of the program, then probably you will do well to buy it and a mac. I mean, look at it this way, if you compare the shake+mac option to buying a shake linux, you basically get a free mac with the app... Or at least a big discount on one, depending on what kind of monster you're getting.

OS X will take some getting used to if you have a windows-only background. The shake workstation at my school is a mac, and I found it fairly easy to get started using it, but I also found that having dabbled a bit with linux at that point helped. OS X does sometimes seem to make it a bit difficult to change system settings you might expect to change with the click of a mouse... I know, I tried (and finally managed) to turn off the mouse acceleration on that thing. I won't go into boring details, but it was a CHORE.

pixel mixer
08-25-2006, 06:26 AM
I'm not one of the experts, but those who help develop both and make a living using both, selling DVD lessons for both seem to agree that Fusion is way ahead ( just 3D and particles alone are something shake can't touch, while everything else you can do in Fusion just as well ). Shake has been pretty buggy since Apple bought it, Fusion5 was buggy at release, but we are way beyond that now. You could still use Fusion 4 which never crashed and be ahead of shake. Shake is a 7-8 year old app, Apple never did anything to improve it ( some say they screwed it up ).

Not to stray away from the thread. If he only has a couple of grand to spend then he may have no choice since Fusion is 5K, but if you can buy a used version on e-bay then upgrade, it could be only 2K, and then it really makes no sense buying shake, unless for some weird reason you prefer it. I'd suggest playing with Fusion learning edition ( if he hasn't already ) and see how it goes. When you really get to know fusion, there are many, many things shake can't touch. The difference is much greater than what a casual user would lead you to believe.

if youre just talking about shave vs fusion then as someone suggested shake+macPro < fusion. and i think that argument alone is enough to make a decision.

i've started 12 years ago with sgi then moved to pcs and now i'm on a mac. why? because the machine does not matter that much. what it matters in production is stability, and a mac is way more stable than a PC. i have PCs and Macs in my company but for compositing we decided to use shake and nothing can make me change that decision. for 500$ there's nothing to beat that. We are writing our own plugins for shake and maya in order to close the gap between comp and 3d and everyting it just fine.

regarding windows vs osx for shake, apple did improve shake as much as they could. v4.1 it's the best version i had, the only things i miss in shake are:
- no paint strokes grouping and 2/4 point tracking on them
- no serious 3d compositing environment as FFI - but i got used in comping in 2d and i can't even use the 3d compositing of shake
- i just miss the shading of surfaces in FFI
- rotoshape kind og buggy and you can't have control on the animation curves for them

appart that i don't need particles (who does serious particle work in a compositing system?), we bought combustion a while ago but it's only good for painting, appart that shake is far superior.

depending on the type of work you do one application might be suited more for your needs. but whatever the needs, at 3000$ a machine with compositing software that works just fine it's just a deal you cannot refuse.

i was in the same situation last year when i bought my first mac just for shake, and shake was 3100 Euros at that time and now it's only 500 USD. I still don't regret it. i got my money back and i bought a quad core and a second license and now i'm up to the third mac, this time a macPro that can run oSX and Windows. what else would you need?

for 3000$ you have a dual Xeon machine with 4gb of memory running both operating systems at full speed, try buying a dual Xeon PC machine for 3000$ in a similar config and make it run osx, see if it works :) but the macPro runs osx and windows smoothly and the most important it's stable. and stability not performance it's what you need in production. you just don't need crashes.

just my 2 cents

Aneks
08-27-2006, 11:14 AM
having decided to put my money where my mouth is I bought a Mac Pro and Shake, this week and I can honestly say that I am overjoyed by the purchase. Less than 4000 us got me a Mac Pro with RAID and plenty of Ram and a seat of Shake 4.1. It is blazingly fast and I know I am working with the best posssible tools at the moment...

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