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View Full Version : No more Standard, No need for a Motion Builder forum?


3DDave
06-27-2006, 10:49 PM
With the end of Alias Motion Builder Standard I ask you if this forum is still needed here. The new Autodesk Motion Builder probably does not have a large enough user base to justify this forum's continued use. Anyone in agreement or disagreement. Chime in CGTalk.com.

HarverdGrad
06-28-2006, 02:51 AM
I think it would be useful to leave the forum. It's always nice to back search archive questions. Is Autodesk pressuring CGTalk to remove the forum? :shrug:

Megalodon
06-28-2006, 03:27 AM
I think that (at least for the time being) it should remain. Many of us still use the software and having this forum (which is one of the most active) can help should we run into problems and/or have tips and techniques we'd like to share. Of course if participation dwindles.... ;)

Megalodon

colkai
06-28-2006, 09:36 AM
In all honesty, until they took 'em down, the old Kaydara forums were the best source of knowledge. Now, I guess, you may be able to find info in the wayback archives but as far as I'm concerned, not much point in the forums for MB now. Those using the PRO version, or rather ONLY version probably don't need to, or can (due to NDAs and such), swap info and everyone else is stuffed so may as well clear up some space.

Duffdaddy
06-28-2006, 11:09 AM
If it stays active, it probably goes to show the number of existing users of Standard there really are. People with Pro licences will no doubt use the Autodesk/Alias Pro forums as it's a paid part of their licence subscription - which also means they get access to MB developers.
Still handy for me even though I'm on the look out for a MB replacement - I intend to continue to use my MB Standard license as long as I usefully can.
Still an outstanding product despite AD horrid treatment of Standard license owners.

colkai
06-28-2006, 12:12 PM
I'm just gutted they took down the info from the old Kaydara forums. Kaydara were very much the better party in terms of handling MB, hands down. The forums had a great many people sharing a great deal of info. Chances are, if there was anything you needed, it was in there.

3DBuzz has a Motionbuilder forum as well, but like CGTalk, it wasn't as heavily used as Kaydaras. That said, they did some really good VTM's for MB so it may be worth hopping over there to see if there's a topic already covered if you need something.

_mg_
06-28-2006, 05:43 PM
isn't this forum for both users of standard and pro?

3DDave
06-28-2006, 11:51 PM
Sure is, but what's the point when all of the activity has mostly been about how Autodesk is revoking permanent licenses from MB Standard users. I mean it "was" a great forum but as we all know from Autodesk, all good things must end. You can thank Autodesk and Alias for killing a great program. http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

Megalodon
06-29-2006, 01:09 AM
I think this talk of removing the Motion Builder forum is a little bit premature. Yes, it's true that most of the activity recently has been ALL about their dreadful move to revoke Standard licenses. However it is most likely that although there will not be a new version of Motion Builder Standard, users of previous versions WILL (hopefully) be able to continue to activate the product. Hence there will still be users who can benefit from this forum.

I would think that if activity declined to next to nothing, then it would be time. Now (IMO) is not the time.

Megalodon

jimzepellin
06-29-2006, 04:06 PM
With the end of Alias Motion Builder Standard I ask you if this forum is still needed here. The new Autodesk Motion Builder probably does not have a large enough user base to justify this forum's continued use. Anyone in agreement or disagreement. Chime in CGTalk.com.

Come on 3DDave Think, Glass half full, Glass half full, Glass half full.
Like Megalodon says

"However it is most likely that although there will not be a new version of Motion Builder Standard, users of previous versions WILL (hopefully) be able to continue to activate the product. Hence there will still be users who can benefit from this forum."

And we'll all still be here. Actually we could have our own section. The really pissed off with Autodesk section. I got a reply from Protexis and it seem though I never got much information, that all you have to do is email support to get a new activation. I emailed them back to get a bit of clarity on this so I'll let you know..

3DDave
06-29-2006, 04:41 PM
Yea, a retired or out of business software section isn't a bad idea.

I would rather see the fate of this forum decided by users then by Autodesk. If the majority of posts are negative (mine included) to AD then I think they would ask CGtalk to shut it down.

colkai
06-29-2006, 06:10 PM
Come on 3DDave Think, Glass half full, Glass half full, Glass half full.
Not only is the glass half empty, it should be full but is cracked and leaking. :p

Actually we could have our own section. The really pissed off with Autodesk section.
Now I wonder if they'd allow us that as a section heading? :twisted:

I got a reply from Protexis and it seem though I never got much information, that all you have to do is email support to get a new activation. I emailed them back to get a bit of clarity on this so I'll let you know..
Please do keep us posted, though I feel we should be pushing for some sort of 'permanent' key, (to use a swear word ;) ), so if Protexis go bums-up we can still use the software.
Even so, so long as we continue to get keys from somwhere, at least we will be able to use the software, (no thanks to Autodesk :p).

jimzepellin
06-29-2006, 06:52 PM
Not only is the glass half empty, it should be full but is cracked and leaking. :p


I was commenting on the suggestion that the Motion builder forum should be shut down. Not on the crappy situation we find ourselves in with Autodesk. I just think there is still plenty of potential for owners of the now deceased MB versions here on this forum.
I know you were only joking but one thing I must say is with a bit of super glue, a little bit of gaffer tape (duct tape) and a little Dutch boy who can stick his finger in holes in dams we can get that glass half full again.:p

colkai
06-29-2006, 07:55 PM
I know you were only joking but one thing I must say is with a bit of super glue, a little bit of gaffer tape (duct tape) and a little Dutch boy who can stick his finger in holes in dams we can get that glass half full again.:p
Hehe, where are we gonna find a little Dutch boy at this time of day? ;) :p

Curtis
06-30-2006, 03:20 PM
Hey guys,

I apologize for the delay in getting this out to you, but we are going to be sending a supplemtry communication to MotionBuilder Standard users (versions 5, 5.1, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.0.1) to clarify the license server termination notice that was sent out (version 7.0 users are not affected). This is the text that will be sent out:



Hello MotionBuilder Users,


This communication supplements the one previously distributed in regards to the retirement of the MotionBuilder Standard product. This communication provides additional clarity and relevant support information for existing users.



First, at no point do existing software licenses become disrupted, invalid or revoked; the codes, and therefore, the licenses and the software remain fully operable, in accordance with the End User License Agreement.



In certain cases if a user was to change hardware components of its system, a system crash were to occur, or the user attempts to transfer its license to another system, the Protexis Licensing Activation System could require a new activation serial number.



However, and this is the second point, Protexis advises it continues to support its Licensing Activation System. Therefore, if a user’s activation code becomes invalid users can request a new activation for their software license, by contacting Protexis support as noted below. Users must provide to Protexis the software name and version number, as well as their original serial number..

o Direct email contact to the Protexis licensing support group – support@protexis.com

o Link to the Protexis support website - http://www.protexis.com/support/support.htm



We trust this supplemental information alleviates concerns regarding continued use of the MotionBuilder Standard product.



Thank you for your attention,



Curtis Garton

Product Manager – MotionBuilder

Autodesk Media and Entertainment

colkai
06-30-2006, 04:28 PM
At least we now know Protexis will hand out keys for MB.
Sad that it took such a furore and nigh on two months for Autodesk to react.

It must be pointed out as well that this "clarification" is actually a back-pedal by Autodesk, , after all, they made it abundantly clear in their email that any re-activation at that point in time would not be possible.
..as of July 13, 2006, it will no longer be possible to acquire new licenses for MotionBuilder Standard versions 5, 5.5, 6 in the event of a hardware failure, operating system reinstallation, or moving the software to a different computer.

There is no abiguity there, so let's not go handing out any laurels here, Autodesk have just had so much bad press, they had to do something (who says you can't shame a company into doing the right thing?). Would this "clarification" have occurred had we done as some wanted and just accepted matters meekly and quietly I wonder?

3DDave
06-30-2006, 05:20 PM
Thanks Autodesk for giving us back that was not yours to take in the first place!

http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/icons/icon6.gif

Megalodon
06-30-2006, 10:08 PM
It must be pointed out as well that this "clarification" is actually a back-pedal by Autodesk, , after all, they made it abundantly clear in their email that any re-activation at that point in time would not be possible.

There is no abiguity there, so let's not go handing out any laurels here, Autodesk have just had so much bad press, they had to do something (who says you can't shame a company into doing the right thing?). Would this "clarification" have occurred had we done as some wanted and just accepted matters meekly and quietly I wonder?

Yes, unfortunately you are completely correct. It's quite evident that they did NOT want this type of "customer service" illustrated in such publications as 3D World magazine where MANY people would have seen just what type of a company AD REALLY is. Their ONLY reason (IMO) is to stop the bad press so that future users of their software wouldn't get the idea that AD may end up doing this to them

Thanks Autodesk for giving us back that was not yours to take in the first place!

It's a shame, but due to the original move by AD I will NEVER purchase or recommend one of their products again. We can see how they treat their customers by trying to extort users to upgrade to their higher-end product telling us how great a deal it is. They apparently have no idea (or simply do not care) what their user base really is - the Standard users were (AFAIK) primarily hobbyists who could not afford such a steep upgrade. Yet AD went ahead anyway. I for one COULD afford to upgrade to the Pro version, but after all of this I will never do so. I will continue to use Standard, but will also learn Messiah.

Hey guys,

I apologize for the delay in getting this out to you, but we are going to be sending a supplemtry communication to MotionBuilder Standard users (versions 5, 5.1, 5.5, 6.0 and 6.0.1) to clarify the license server termination notice that was sent out (version 7.0 users are not affected). This is the text that will be sent out:

Sorry Curtis..... but this is too late. I'm glad your company decided to revisit their original decision, but we know full well this had NOTHING to do with "good will toward your customers." They should NEVER have made the decision to "revoke activations" and it is quite obvious that their customer was the last thing on their minds - it was ONLY the bottom dollar.

You know... I call myself a very greedy person - I want more money than I could possibly spend. But like I tell my customers.... I would NEVER screw anyone to get that money. I will work hard and honestly and never do what you were going to do to your customers. But then I have integrity.

People will remember what AD did here - regardless of what Pixelmonk said about us forgetting about it. I know I sure won't forget. Perhaps if Autodesk ends up reinstating the Standard edition and gives the Standard users an incredible upgrade offer, then perhaps that will go a long way to mending this broken fence. But I doubt they will do that.

It's a shame....

Megalodon

mummey
06-30-2006, 10:31 PM
With the end of Alias Motion Builder Standard I ask you if this forum is still needed here. The new Autodesk Motion Builder probably does not have a large enough user base to justify this forum's continued use. Anyone in agreement or disagreement. Chime in CGTalk.com.

Seriously... Don't you people have better things to do than whine about a company ending a version of a product?

Megalodon
06-30-2006, 11:01 PM
Seriously... Don't you people have better things to do than whine about a company ending a version of a product?
And yet you waste your time posting a complaint about other people complaining. ;)

Megalodon

Duffdaddy
06-30-2006, 11:03 PM
Seriously... Don't you people have better things to do than whine about a company ending a version of a product?

You're obviously not a MB standard user - I suspect if any of the software products you currently own (and had invested a couple of 'K' into) and use on a regular basis were simply pulled from under you you'd squeal too.

colkai
07-01-2006, 09:31 AM
Seriously... Don't you people have better things to do than whine about a company ending a version of a product?
It appears people still have trouble understanding something as this post makes evident.

I have no problem with a product support ending and a newer version coming out.
What I have a problem with is being told I can no longer use the product I have bought if I have a system crash or change something in my PC.

Now we have at least the chance to re-activate should that happen. As I said in my prior post, taking the attitude of lie down and get steam-rollered would not, I am convinced, have resulted in the MD Std users being able to do this.

I'd be surprised if 3DW didn't run the article, just that now we'll have someone from Autodesk claiming they were "mis-represented", though the clarity of their original E-Mail proves otherwise.

I do think, if you don't complain, you'll never know if things can be made better, this whole action has proven that at times, you can indeed make things better. Vote with your wallet as they say. :)

jimzepellin
07-01-2006, 11:40 AM
I got a nother reply from Protexis.

"Hi James,

Protexis has always handled the activation event for MOTIONBUILDER from
Kaydara, to Alias, and continued on through the current owner. Activation
will occur as it always has, so unless your serial number has reached its
limit, no contact with Protexis is necessary. In any case, Protexis will
support you with any problems that occur during the activation step.

Best regards,"

As far as Protexis is concerned it's business as usual. I've actually found
myself in a situation where I can test this out. I had a major system crash
on Thursday and I had to do a full install. I'm just about to install MB but
I thought I'd better give you the news first.
The thing that really annoys me is how simple a fix this was and why did'nt
AD do this in the first place. I think it was a synical attempt to scare us
fokes into upgrading to the pro version. They have only made enemies and got
them a bit of bad publicity into the bargain.

softdistortion
07-01-2006, 12:47 PM
I'd be surprised if 3DW didn't run the article, just that now we'll have someone from Autodesk claiming they were "mis-represented", though the clarity of their original E-Mail proves otherwise.

Yeah, likley anyone with moderate intelligence can compare the latest letter with the original and see that it's really an amendment that overturns the original decision to terminate licensing. I guess we have to overlook AD's passing it off as suplimentary clarification. :hmm:
I'll be sending off a short update email to 3DWorld. I'm sure they'll be able to discern what's what.

colkai
07-01-2006, 12:48 PM
The thing that really annoys me is how simple a fix this was and why did'nt
AD do this in the first place. I think it was a synical attempt to scare us
fokes into upgrading to the pro version. They have only made enemies and got
them a bit of bad publicity into the bargain.

I don't think you are wrong at all, a hard-sell tactic if ever there was one.
It blew up in their face though, so maybe, lesson learned.

Be interesting to see you experience, who knows, could even speed matters up if you don't have to go through AD but deal with Protexis directly.

jimzepellin
07-01-2006, 01:48 PM
I just installed MB5. Activated, no problem. I'm just going to install the updates to 6.

edit: just installed V6 no problem.

Megalodon
07-01-2006, 08:11 PM
I do think, if you don't complain, you'll never know if things can be made better, this whole action has proven that at times, you can indeed make things better. Vote with your wallet as they say. :)

And THAT's the point! It is the users of the software who spoke up and made this happen. I really don't care if people say we were "whining" and that what we were doing was useless - this proves that it CAN work.

Too bad AD shot itself in the foot on this one. As I said previously, they truly don't care about their customer base, ONLY the bottom dollar. And yes, companies should care about that almighty $$$ - since that's what they're in business for. But you don't try to extort (or should we call it the "hard-sell?") more from your customer to get that $$.

Now I'd like to see that (official) e-mail from AD! :)

Megalodon

jimzepellin
07-01-2006, 08:53 PM
ry to extort (or should we call it the "hard-sell?") more from your customer to get that $$.

Now I'd like to see that (official) e-mail from AD! :)

Megalodon

I don't know about everyone else but at the same time I got an email from Protexis I got an email from AD. I can't remember exactly what it said, I deleted it because it left a nasty taste in my mouth. You've probably seen it before, the corporate every things rosey, the futures rosey, we love our customers and we'll make them rosey. I felt like spitting but I thought I'd better not, I might have ruined the carpet.

Seriously... Don't you people have better things to do than whine about a company ending a version of a product?
mummey. I'm sure everyone here has better things to do than whine. Like using the software with the license they payed for. Have you got something against people complaining? I'm sure you would complain if the company you bought your car from decided to remove the wheels and engine but said you can still use it if you want. You could sit in your car turning the steering wheel and making broom broom noises.

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