New Apple OS screenshots

[erik2003]

that distortion thing looks totally useless

[DevilHacker]

The pictures... (click on thumbnail to link over to the page and see full size image)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1221/3225/400/leopard_img01.0.png (http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2006/06/mac-os-x-105-leopard-screenshots.html)

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1221/3225/400/leopard_img02.png (http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2006/06/mac-os-x-105-leopard-screenshots.html)


PS: Does anyone else see IE7?... lol

[DevilHacker]

that distortion thing looks totally uselessEyecandy. Thats all it is...

My best guess is that the hole viewing into the back desktop is not stationary but can be moved with the mouse to read something on the other desktop real quick... or something...

That, or its just transition effects... (as the person switches desktops)

As i said... I guess...

[GoranNF]

Damn,I really love the mac's aqua theme.Running windows apps on mac?Without any slowdowns?

[ThomasMahler]

Wow, if that stuff is true... that'd be awesome. Questions is, how good would Windows applications actually run within OSX? It'd have to be some kind of virtualization code - don't think that OGL applications, Direct X applications or games or stuff would really run.

Nevertheless, all of that looks good to me - the finder tabs are neat and I'm sure that Leopard will be kick-ass.

[mustique]

The IE 7 browser theme either can't adapt to OSX, or the whole thing is a fake.

[DevilHacker]

Damn,I really love the mac's aqua theme.Running windows apps on mac?Without any slowdowns? Lol, maybe it’s not Mac after all…
We all know that Microsoft has stated that Skinning Vista will be a lot easer and more complete than that in XP… Maybe, “10.5 Leopard” is just a skinned version of the OS running on Vista (hince the ".5"), that apple will start to ship standard (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/pcs/best-buy-to-sell-macs-182714.php) come 2007… Think about it, the best of both worlds, and apples market share jumps to unprecedented heights surpassing big PC manufacturers like Dell and HP…

Ok, I joke… Maybe (http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7898/24354059l0so.jpg)…
Let the conspiracy theories begin. :D

[rebo]

Cant wait for Leopard, since I got my Macbook pro the OS X world has been a relevation to me. The thing just works so well. Definitely the best desktop OS ive ever used. If Leopard has integrated virtualisation well I can see alot more people migrating to OSX.

*Though I do think these screenies are probably fake.

[paulrus]

Hmmm peeling away one desktop to reveal another one behind it... sounds familliar....

Oh yeah!! AmigaOS circa late 1980's. Way to go Apple! You're finally catching up to the good old Amiga.

[mech7]

Although I would like to believe i don't really think this is true.. look at something like WINE for example it's been around for ages and support for many apps is still crap.

There is support for running Windo ws apps natively within the OSX desktop

[DevilHacker]

Hmmm peeling away one desktop to reveal another one behind it... sounds familliar....

Oh yeah!! AmigaOS circa late 1980's...Thats where i remembered it from. Thanks, that was starting to bug me...
:thumbsup:

[Szos]

Hmmm peeling away one desktop to reveal another one behind it... sounds familliar....

Oh yeah!! AmigaOS circa late 1980's. Way to go Apple! You're finally catching up to the good old Amiga.
They are already ripping off the idea of having seperate graphics and sound chips, next they will be having 2 independant resolutions on screen at once and maybe even bring back HAM*.



*(bonus points for anyone that remembers what HAM stood for)

[Cinnsealach]

They are already ripping off the idea of having seperate graphics and sound chips, next they will be having 2 independant resolutions on screen at once and maybe even bring back HAM*.



*(bonus points for anyone that remembers what HAM stood for)

Hold And Modify - I really miss my Amigas' :sad:

[gaborca]

HAM -> Hold And Modify. It was a very clever video mode to display all the 4096 colors (or 262144 later with the AA chipset) at once on the screen. Forgot to mention that HAM did it with only 6 bits/pixel (8 in AA). :)

Wikipedia (under Denise):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Amiga_chipset

It was a miracle in it's time far ahead of anything else in that price category... I still have that miracle in my Amiga 1000 :thumbsup:

[BinarySoup]

Hold And Modify - I really miss my Amigas' :sad:
I miss some things about the old Amiga, one thing I don't miss is the lack of memory protection. sure, it improved the speed of the system, but 'guru meditations' taking the whole machine down was simply a nightmare when using the amiga for productivity rather than gaming. it did reboot fast though ;)

ahh, nostalgia...

[Szos]

Cinnsealach gets the star for the day in Amiga History 101.

[CupOWonton]

There is support for running Windo ws apps natively within the OSX desktop, with the new version of Internet Explorer happily co-existing alongside an OSX Finder window. Speaking of which, Finder now has tabs. Thank goodness for that.


How much does that entail exactly? Running specific aps? All aps? Isnt there some sort of legal issue that would hamper that?

[Howitzer]

How much does that entail exactly? Running specific aps? All aps? Isnt there some sort of legal issue that would hamper that?

Nope. Wine does it for Linux. And if you know about Darwine (http://darwine.opendarwin.org/), you can already run Windows programs in MacOS. (on an x86)

[metroeast]

I can appreciate the new interface but the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users. Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore). Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore. Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices and locations.

Tech support from the company itself is horrible. There are little to no outside IT people to call if you have any problems. Most of the outside IT people are questionable at best.

I can't tell you how many problems I heard from software support people about the problems with OSX. Sorry guys, Macs lost me when they moved beyond OS 9.

As small business guy, I can't avoid all these possible pitfalls for something that has a nice interface and cool case.

[macsupremacist]

I can appreciate the new interface but the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users. Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore). Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore. Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices and locations.

I'm going to disagree, macs have plenty of decent apps like FCP and Safari (against Premiere and IE), but that's beside the point. Wasn't the whole point of boot camp and with virtualization in Leopard to allow users to run Windows so that they can keep the apps they need that aren't compiled for Mac OS X. I don't really see the whole "they don't make any apps for it" as a problem any more, though I never had a problem with it in the first place (with the possible exception being games).

[Bonedaddy]

I can appreciate the new interface but the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users. Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore). Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore. Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices and locations.

Seriously?

I much prefer Final Cut to Premiere (or Avid), and both Safari and Firefox beat the hell out of MIE. And all the apple techs I've dealt with at Genius Bars have been really, really smart. They didn't talk down to me or try to mess around -- they just told me how it was, and that was that. Probably the best tech support I've had to deal with in some time. But I always go to see them in person, never over the phone.

[deadplant155]

Seriously?

I much prefer Final Cut to Premiere (or Avid), and both Safari and Firefox beat the hell out of MIE. And all the apple techs I've dealt with at Genius Bars have been really, really smart. They didn't talk down to me or try to mess around -- they just told me how it was, and that was that. Probably the best tech support I've had to deal with in some time. But I always go to see them in person, never over the phone.
i agree
does the previous poster really see the unavailability of premiere as a setback for macs?....and come on, internet explorer? really?

the windows interface and software and tech support have been complete crap since day one....they've still got plenty of customers, i think apple is doing just fine...

[macsupremacist]

the windows interface and software and tech support have been complete crap since day one....they've still got plenty of customers, i think apple is doing just fine...

Lol yeah, everytime my friend calls microsoft for tech support, they usually tell him to pull out his windows disk and do a full re-install first thing.

[John-S]

sorry, just noticed I double posted the same thing somehow???

(post content deleted)

[John-S]

If these are the same pictures mac rumors in on about then here are their points:

It's Real
- The screen switching effect only applies to the desktop windows and icons, and does not effect the menubar or dock.

It's Fake
- The Internet Explorer window does not have a shadow on the right-hand side like other application windows do.
- Typically under-development software will list OS versions with the build. The screenshots only say "Version 10.5."

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2006/06/20060623081820.shtml


I can't wait to see the full OS at the WWDC in a couple months : )

[Matadŏr]

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/7898/24354059l0so.jpg

the two should marry...
the black and white shirts (yin and yang bs), the wedding rings, both hands in the air, trying to reach the other... i say, this would be a perfect couple ;)

[mummey]

I can appreciate the new interface but the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users. Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore). Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore. Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices and locations.

Tech support from the company itself is horrible. There are little to no outside IT people to call if you have any problems. Most of the outside IT people are questionable at best.

I can't tell you how many problems I heard from software support people about the problems with OSX. Sorry guys, Macs lost me when they moved beyond OS 9.

As small business guy, I can't avoid all these possible pitfalls for something that has a nice interface and cool case.

This is the 'token' response I usually hear from someone who hasn't used a Mac, but hears about them from other PC users.

Like Premiere? Try Final Cut Pro. There's a reason that Adobe has given up on Premiere's mac version.

As for tech support, AppleCare has the best rating in the industry for 6 years running. Yes, that includes Dell, IBM(Lenovo), and HP...

As a small business person, I can understand your decision not to support two platforms. That can get pretty expensive, but don't go blaming it on how "inferior" the mac side is...

[John-S]

The last meeting I was at with Adobe it seemed they were considering putting Premier back on the Mac in the next release. I wouldn't use it compared to FCS at all but I'm just throwing this out their....

[almux]

that distortion thing looks totally useless
Absolutely... and I say that as a MacOSX user!
It is too useless and looks too ugly to be a real feature.
All effects in OSX are there to help a better use of it... this thing looks just like a third party add on... or maybe the work of a vista developper who just switched to Mac...

[rblitz7]

The pics could easily be fakes but the finder tabs feature makes perfect sense, im surprised I havent thought of it before.

[DizzyJ]

I can appreciate the new interface but the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users. Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore).

Adobe put out a press release a month or two ago announcing Premiere would be back on the Mac with the next release. Apple may not be gaining the mass influx of new users fanboys are always expecting, but they certainly aren't losing users.

[Arrghman]

Apparently, all the Core Duo Macs use DDR2 memory, the first screenshot lists only DDR memory. Plus Apple hasn't tried to take these down yet, which they normally do for leaked stuff!

[CupOWonton]

Apparently, all the Core Duo Macs use DDR2 memory, the first screenshot lists only DDR memory. Plus Apple hasn't tried to take these down yet, which they normally do for leaked stuff!

Thats a VERY good point.

[Aneks]

yawn, fake, yawn .....

[knellotron]

The pictures... (click on thumbnail to link over to the page and see full size image)
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1221/3225/400/leopard_img01.0.png (http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2006/06/mac-os-x-105-leopard-screenshots.html)

Virtual Desktops? Good. All proper *nixes should have that.



http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/1221/3225/400/leopard_img02.png (http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2006/06/mac-os-x-105-leopard-screenshots.html)


So this is the transition effect between desktops?
That's fine with me, although XGL's cube spin make a little more sense. I know OS X uses that same effect for fast user switching, but I seriously *never* use that feature.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if Internet Explorer 7 was either (1)available in a unusually secretive beta, native version from Microsoft or (2) running under some version of Wine.

Nothing terribly groundbreaking, but nothing that isn't useful, imo. I really want to hear how those built-in virtualization rumors turn out, because I'm really into that sort of geekery. My guess is that the bootcamp logo in the top bar probably has a switch for popping into Windows and back. That's nice and integrated.

[knellotron]

Nope. Wine does it for Linux. And if you know about Darwine (http://darwine.opendarwin.org/), you can already run Windows programs in MacOS. (on an x86)

Darwine was basically Wine on top of an x86 emulator. The project is sort of unnecessary, now that the extra emulation necessary is unneeded.

All Wine needs is just a plain old port to OS X now, and I think that's almost done already.

[rebo]

knellotron, install virtueDesktop (http://virtuedesktops.info/), for Xgl style cube spin for different desktops. Plus a load of other effects, such as different wallpapers on each desktop and being able to use the top and bottom of the "cube" as a desktop.

[almux]

knellotron, install virtueDesktop (http://virtuedesktops.info/), for Xgl style cube spin for different desktops. Plus a load of other effects, such as different wallpapers on each desktop and being able to use the top and bottom of the "cube" as a desktop.
Well, the point isn't "adding effects". Not that it isn't cool (for some people who give some sort of value to it) to "personalyse" ones desktop... Yet OSX features are meant and due to have a better workflow. No gimmicks there... just userfriendly, understandable, clean and usefull stuff.

[Para]

IE7 has (partly) in-built UI thus it at least shouldn't be able to adapt to OSX UI like that.

Also notice that the right-hand edge of IE7 is missing a shadow.

The transition effect is actually anti-aliased.


I'd say those are fake.

[rebo]

Agree Almux, some of the productive stuff you can do with VirtueDesktops is bind certain applications to certain desktops. So you can have a "mail" desktop with mail, address book and ical bound to it and "browsing" desktop with firefox and a chat client bound. opening the respective application automatically takes you to that desktop. With login start up configured you can have all your applications setup on the right desktop and in the correct window positions and get down to work straight away.

[metroeast]

Seriously?

I much prefer Final Cut to Premiere (or Avid), and both Safari and Firefox beat the hell out of MIE. And all the apple techs I've dealt with at Genius Bars have been really, really smart. They didn't talk down to me or try to mess around -- they just told me how it was, and that was that. Probably the best tech support I've had to deal with in some time. But I always go to see them in person, never over the phone.

I have heard a lot of good stuff about FCP. It has been getting a lot of good press. Maybe I have just had a bad history with them. I used them in college and my last gig so it is like I am coming at this from an uninformed POV. At the last job, that were plagued with problems. OSX 10.4 was a nightmare. The boss was about to uninstall it on the fileserver and go back to 9. His and another guys company had problems with the RAM (The one that Apple recommended). I also had problems running Lightwave previews. The developers at Newtek sounded pretty fustrated with Apple.

If you are developing websites, sorry to break it to you guys, majority of the world still uses IE (I don't like it either). I would design sites on macs that would look great in macIE, Safari, and Firefox and still have bugs when it is on the PC. Why should I jump back and forth from a mac to a test PC when I can just do the whole thing on a PC?

[theCloudmover]

From the MacUser (http://www.macuser.com/internet/leopard_screenshots_come_out_a.php) site-


Remember those supposed Leopard screenshots that came out yesterday? Well, now they have been confirmed as fake by their creator. (http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/2006/06/jig-is-up.html) Even though those screenshots were fake, they still looked pretty real to me, despite the fact that they had some flaws (the “About This Mac” window wasn’t entirely correct).

[imashination]

the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users
Like, say, release a series of intel based core core notebooks with the ability to natively run windows, at a competitive price compared to dell etc? Just an idea, maybe apple should do that.

Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore)
They've stopped one app, a rubbish one which pales in comparrison to several other apps available.

Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore
Ye be shitting me? IE is terrible. Everyone with half a nugget in their head switched over the opera or firefox months if not years ago. internet explorer is a joke of a product.

Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices
Photoshop, check
c4d, check
world of warcraft, check

Well thats me sorted, what are you missing? and which one is more expensive on osx than it is windows?

Tech support from the company itself is horrible.
Last year I had a problem with a windows notebook power supply after 1 week. The store refused to provide me with another because it has to go through their official replacement proceedure. On Firday I went into the apple store because my MBP power cable was faulty. I walked out after 5 minutes with a new one. I didnt even have a receipt on me, just a laptop in a bag. While I was there waiting, a guy next to me asked where in the store he could grab a new dvi>vga adaptor because he lost his. The guy opens a drawer, pulls out a new adaptor, bags it, hands it to him, then sends him on his way. Theyve also just shut down the entire indian support centre and moved it back overseas.

A year ago I took a new laptop into a pcworld store because it was overheating then throttling down to 25% speed. The store guy tried to persuade me it was within a reasonable working spec. It wasnt until I started making some threats that they took it back. 2 weeks ago I went to the apple store to ask how hot the mac should be getting. I spoke to a guy who knew, who knew the entire internal layout of the heatpipes, chips and fan and honestly admitted that the whole thermal paste issue, they dont have a definitive answer yet, but to come back in a week or so and theyll have something more solid.

But hey, maybe Im just lucky.

[almux]

...

If you are developing websites, sorry to break it to you guys, majority of the world still uses IE (I don't like it either). I would design sites on macs that would look great in macIE, Safari, and Firefox and still have bugs when it is on the PC. Why should I jump back and forth from a mac to a test PC when I can just do the whole thing on a PC?
The fact that Microsoft is majoritarely used (for the worse of security) doesn't mean it is cool. There are standarts Microsoft will just neglect to keep its nonsense alive...
Any pro webdesigner will make a clean site first on the real standarts, and only after watch for all the b**** scripts microsoft has brought on, in order to have it all nice looking also on IE.

[PyRoT]

It would be interesting if Microsoft did create a OSX like skin for vista, released these pictures as a new mac os and then later revealed that it was a skin.. hmm :)

[Para]

It would be interesting if Microsoft did create a OSX like skin for vista, released these pictures as a new mac os and then later revealed that it was a skin.. hmm :)

Such skins do already exist for Windows XP.

Otherwise this thread went all flamy couple of posts back.

[John-S]

the fact is Mac needs to do something dramatic to keep users
Aren't Apple users the most famous for being so dedicated to their platform? Keep users? Who's leaving? They just been gaining users for years now....soon the market share will finally reveal that : )
Adobe is switching the apps to PC (Premiere isn't on Macs anymore)
Like I said before (maybe to this quote already but I didn't looke back), I believe the next version of Premier will be Mac compatable again. But even if it wasn't, Adobe seems to always be about a year or so behind Apple in Editing Technology...who needs premier on mac? FCP Rocks : )
Heck, Shake being only 500 bucks now.....After Effects What???LOL (I know that they are discontinuing shake after this but Apple also states that the next software will be adaptable and I believe it will be just as cheap.
Internet Explorer isn't supported by Microsoft anymore
imashination sumed that up....
Most of the best software is designed for PCs and at more reasonable prices
Most? Like what? Max? XSI? We got plenty of great alternatives. More expensive? How do you figure?
Tech support from the company itself is horrible.
http://www.theacsi.org/second_quarter.htm
(customer satisfaction #1)

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cu-press-room/pressroom/eng0606com.htm
(tech support #1)

Not even trying to be an Apple nut, I've never seen a company with such good support. All the tech support speaks clearly which is a major plus. They support the Hardware and Software all in one call. Ipod and Imac 24 Hr chat support. Apple stores free support. They got you covered in every way possible. Plus, when you buy tech support for Apple its only 1 option, the APP. I just was helping a friend look at a Dell, There is like a 100 different options and charges left and right.

Plus their online shopping ain't bad either. In Nov 2005 Apple ranked #1 in Online shopping experience according to Consumer Reports:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1378

[eek]

Aren't Apple users the most famous for being so dedicated to their platform? Keep users? Who's leaving? They just been gaining users for years now....soon the market share will finally reveal that : )

Like I said before (maybe to this quote already but I didn't looke back), I believe the next version of Premier will be Mac compatable again. But even if it wasn't, Adobe seems to always be about a year or so behind Apple in Editing Technology...who needs premier on mac? FCP Rocks : )
Heck, Shake being only 500 bucks now.....After Effects What???LOL (I know that they are discontinuing shake after this but Apple also states that the next software will be adaptable and I believe it will be just as cheap.

imashination sumed that up....

Most? Like what? Max? XSI? We got plenty of great alternatives. More expensive? How do you figure?

http://www.theacsi.org/second_quarter.htm
(customer satisfaction #1)

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cu-press-room/pressroom/eng0606com.htm
(tech support #1)

Not even trying to be an Apple nut, I've never seen a company with such good support. All the tech support speaks clearly which is a major plus. They support the Hardware and Software all in one call. Ipod and Imac 24 Hr chat support. Apple stores free support. They got you covered in every way possible. Plus, when you buy tech support for Apple its only 1 option, the APP. I just was helping a friend look at a Dell, There is like a 100 different options and charges left and right.

Plus their online shopping ain't bad either. In Nov 2005 Apple ranked #1 in Online shopping experience according to Consumer Reports:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=1378

haha always gets me these threads, John-s and Cupowonton. Its like the 'odd couple'
Currently im contesting switching atm!

[John-S]

Ok? Was I quoting cupowonton or something??? I haven't fully followed this thread, I just seen the quotes on the post before and thought i would drop a line. Sorry if my post is offending anyone or something.......

'Odd Couple'??? I wasn't even thinking or talking about cupowonton when I made this post. Niether was I trying to start an agruement. I just posted my own 2 cents like everyone else and posted a couple links for my backing.

Hope thats Cool : )

*********added*********
I'm not the one starting these silly threads on CG News so I don't know why its funny to see me or cupowonton posting on them (which I really didn't see cupowonton post much on this thread either). I don't see how mac ads are CG News and I wish this area was more on topic personally. But I guess its fun to watch people debate about non-CG stuff on CG TALK. This really belongs in some sort of "Off-Topic" area. Yes we use macs in CG Work but Apple ads on tv??? Seriously, why not post every other computer ad you see on tv? Or screenshots...

[mech7]

http://osx.portraitofakite.com/

It would be interesting if Microsoft did create a OSX like skin for vista, released these pictures as a new mac os and then later revealed that it was a skin.. hmm :)

[eek]

Ok? Was I quoting cupowonton or something??? I haven't fully followed this thread, I just seen the quotes on the post before and thought i would drop a line. Sorry if my post is offending anyone or something.......

'Odd Couple'??? I wasn't even thinking or talking about cupowonton when I made this post. Niether was I trying to start an agruement. I just posted my own 2 cents like everyone else and posted a couple links for my backing.

Hope thats Cool : )

*********added*********
I'm not the one starting these silly threads on CG News so I don't know why its funny to see me or cupowonton posting on them (which I really didn't see cupowonton post much on this thread either). I don't see how mac ads are CG News and I wish this area was more on topic personally. But I guess its fun to watch people debate about non-CG stuff on CG TALK. This really belongs in some sort of "Off-Topic" area. Yes we use macs in CG Work but Apple ads on tv??? Seriously, why not post every other computer ad you see on tv? Or screenshots...

Ok! relax!

'The odd couple' classic 60s film. The point i was making is you both appear occasionally on these apple threads, either to bitch or just stand up for the product. I mean it seams your synonymous with every apple thread here.Like cupowonton and maxwell - i just found it funny. Even if you dont start them your take on them always to me feels one sided slightly. Apple and pcs both run on intel there essentially the same, they both crash, they both get bugs/viruses and there both shite at somethings and good at others. - end of story. Both can have shite aftercare (ipod and early imacs for example) As to adobe and photoshop they'd be insane to drop it off apples product range.

We really should stop threads like this because they always derail into apple vs pc. Its as bad as the 'whats the best 3d app'. Ive used everything from sgi,bbc's, amiga,spectrum,amstrad,pc,mac 2,i mac -they all crash, they all get bugs and break, there all good at certain things and bad at others, and constructive critisim is good for both parties. We need to stop pandering, and make solid machines and solid tools and stop whining on and on and on and on...

cheers,

[John-S]

Sorry if my post was a bit harsh sounding. But....

I'm not a one sided person. I use the same amount of pc's as I do macs. I have stated all over the place on this forum that macs do crash. I feel less then pc's in my own opinion but we all have our personal favorites. Apples do get bugs like any other computer/software maker but they do not have virus's or spyware yet. Will they? At some point we will see more but Apple is a huge target for virus makers etc. They have paraded all over the place since the start of OS X that they don't have any virus's on OS X. I'm sure there are many Mac hater Virus writers out there that wouldn't mind sticking a sock in Apples Mouth. Have they? The closest thing they have got so far is the Leap A which proved not to be a virus. It was supposed to be the start of the Apple virus's etc to most people but that was in feb. and I haven't heard of another since. They have alway's found vulnerability's in Safari, Quicktime etc but they have always been repaired before exploited.

Fact is on my point of view is that I do have an equal amount of pc's as I do macs (actually I just added black macbook to the family). 5 pc's and 6 macs now. All are built directly from HP, Dell, Compaq (part of hp now), Apple and 1 other brand. When I brought them home with the macs have not needed any tech support, setting changes, additional software, nothing. They work strait out of the box without having to worry about spyware, antivirus, nothing. None of them since 2002 have ever had to be repaired (with the exeption of 1 logic board that my drunk buddy spilled coke on somehow), they still run top notch. Every one of our PC's required additional stuff, removal of a bunch of junk software such as certain AV's, got a million and one virus's and spyware. Almost all their HD's are failed. Half of their CD/DVD drives failed and don't work within 6 months to a year and a half. The wannabe memory card readers broke. The monitors on the HP's black out forever if you change their position. You name it.

If I ever thought I had a problem with an Apple, tech support was a dream. If I did with one of our pc's...I was told to call a different company such as MS for support, asked if I bought the Hardware plan, software plan, whatever business and economy plans, you name it. They always seemed to need the plan I didn't have and want to charge me more. Of course thats after it took 2 hours to try and figure out what they say. Plus, they all seem to have the same answers.....reinstall XP : )

I'm sure that some people who can custome build their pc's and are pc guru's can get a good machine without all the troubles I've had. However, I don't see why you should have to be a pc guru to run a personal computer virus free etc. Look at explorer, its insanity to use...but for the average person who doesn't do anytype of computer research...it must be the best/safest becuase thats what is bundled on your OS. Their are so many modifications people will tell you to make on windows. Even on 3D software to be able to access more then the usable 1.6 GB of ram with a 32 bit OS and Software. People always say that they don't get virus's and yatta yatta yatta. Well, I have tried pretty much every one of those Guru's advise on what software to use etc and guess what? Our machines our loaded with them. We are forced to open around 50 emails a day in my line of work but still.....

Even though I think Vista is just a mirror of Mac OS X Tiger, I want it to work as much as the next guy since I use both systems. However, why is it that no MS people out there seem to not have faith in this new OS and say they won't even use it for a long period after its release? I have my best hopes looking foward to this new OS and hoping that I can finally retire XP, I just don't think I'll even install it myself till the begining of 2008 to know. Otherwise, I have read all pc reviews before I bought my pc's and listened to peoples advise and now I have a bunch of pc's that are comparable to the macs....and don't work. I know there are many people out there that don't share this experiance with me but this IS mine. Plus, in 2002 I absolutly hated Apple (thanks to OS 9 and colored imacs). I bought a G4 powermac with OS X becuase of Final Cut Pro. I was embarresed to have it and all my friends made fun of me. After a few weeks everything changed for me and them.....

Macs Break - Yes

Old imac support - Not sure, depends how old and if I even used Apple then. As for the past few years apple has been on top of the charts for support.

Current Virus's and spyware - None

Crashes - Quite a few (I think alot of crashes are cause by badly written code by the software makers on both systems though)

Me being biased - I try not to start any threads on pc's and I also don't directly insult them or thier users. I have both systems and wish that I shared the same good experiance with both. I look foward to Vista but I have no idea what brand of pc is left to buy that is good. If I have good experiance with Vista and my next System then that would be good.

Apple arguements compared to 3D Software arguements - Believe it or not I've seen a few 3D software arguements get extreemly heated while alot of mac ones just go back and forth forever.

Things like this shouldn't be in CG News......I wish they weren't.

Again, Sorry eek if my last post was harsh. Sorry if you read all of this one too....its way to LONG : (

[eek]

Sorry if my post was a bit harsh sounding. But....

I'm not a one sided person. I use the same amount of pc's as I do macs. I have stated all over the place on this forum that macs do crash. I feel less then pc's in my own opinion but we all have our personal favorites. Apples do get bugs like any other computer/software maker but they do not have virus's or spyware yet. Will they? At some point we will see more but Apple is a huge target for virus makers etc. They have paraded all over the place since the start of OS X that they don't have any virus's on OS X. I'm sure there are many Mac hater Virus writers out there that wouldn't mind sticking a sock in Apples Mouth. Have they? The closest thing they have got so far is the Leap A which proved not to be a virus. It was supposed to be the start of the Apple virus's etc to most people but that was in feb. and I haven't heard of another since. They have alway's found vulnerability's in Safari, Quicktime etc but they have always been repaired before exploited.

Fact is on my point of view is that I do have an equal amount of pc's as I do macs (actually I just added black macbook to the family). 5 pc's and 6 macs now. All are built directly from HP, Dell, Compaq (part of hp now), Apple and 1 other brand. When I brought them home with the macs have not needed any tech support, setting changes, additional software, nothing. They work strait out of the box without having to worry about spyware, antivirus, nothing. None of them since 2002 have ever had to be repaired (with the exeption of 1 logic board that my drunk buddy spilled coke on somehow), they still run top notch. Every one of our PC's required additional stuff, removal of a bunch of junk software such as certain AV's, got a million and one virus's and spyware. Almost all their HD's are failed. Half of their CD/DVD drives failed and don't work within 6 months to a year and a half. The wannabe memory card readers broke. The monitors on the HP's black out forever if you change their position. You name it.

If I ever thought I had a problem with an Apple, tech support was a dream. If I did with one of our pc's...I was told to call a different company such as MS for support, asked if I bought the Hardware plan, software plan, whatever business and economy plans, you name it. They always seemed to need the plan I didn't have and want to charge me more. Of course thats after it took 2 hours to try and figure out what they say. Plus, they all seem to have the same answers.....reinstall XP : )

I'm sure that some people who can custome build their pc's and are pc guru's can get a good machine without all the troubles I've had. However, I don't see why you should have to be a pc guru to run a personal computer virus free etc. Look at explorer, its insanity to use...but for the average person who doesn't do anytype of computer research...it must be the best/safest becuase thats what is bundled on your OS. Their are so many modifications people will tell you to make on windows. Even on 3D software to be able to access more then the usable 1.6 GB of ram with a 32 bit OS and Software. People always say that they don't get virus's and yatta yatta yatta. Well, I have tried pretty much every one of those Guru's advise on what software to use etc and guess what? Our machines our loaded with them. We are forced to open around 50 emails a day in my line of work but still.....

Even though I think Vista is just a mirror of Mac OS X Tiger, I want it to work as much as the next guy since I use both systems. However, why is it that no MS people out there seem to not have faith in this new OS and say they won't even use it for a long period after its release? I have my best hopes looking foward to this new OS and hoping that I can finally retire XP, I just don't think I'll even install it myself till the begining of 2008 to know. Otherwise, I have read all pc reviews before I bought my pc's and listened to peoples advise and now I have a bunch of pc's that are comparable to the macs....and don't work. I know there are many people out there that don't share this experiance with me but this IS mine. Plus, in 2002 I absolutly hated Apple (thanks to OS 9 and colored imacs). I bought a G4 powermac with OS X becuase of Final Cut Pro. I was embarresed to have it and all my friends made fun of me. After a few weeks everything changed for me and them.....

Macs Break - Yes

Old imac support - Not sure, depends how old and if I even used Apple then. As for the past few years apple has been on top of the charts for support.

Current Virus's and spyware - None

Crashes - Quite a few (I think alot of crashes are cause by badly written code by the software makers on both systems though)

Me being biased - I try not to start any threads on pc's and I also don't directly insult them or thier users. I have both systems and wish that I shared the same good experiance with both. I look foward to Vista but I have no idea what brand of pc is left to buy that is good. If I have good experiance with Vista and my next System then that would be good.

Apple arguements compared to 3D Software arguements - Believe it or not I've seen a few 3D software arguements get extreemly heated while alot of mac ones just go back and forth forever.

Things like this shouldn't be in CG News......I wish they weren't.

Again, Sorry eek if my last post was harsh. Sorry if you read all of this one too....its way to LONG : (

viruses the mac: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/computer-virus/macintosh-faq/

.1 Mac-specific system and file infectors
-------------------------------------------
AIDS - infects application and system files. No intentional damage.
(nVIR B strain)

Aladin - close relative of Frankie

Anti (Anti-A/Anti-Ange, Anti-B, Anti Variant) - can't spread under
system 7.x, or System 6 under MultiFinder. Can damage applications
so that they can't be 100% repaired.

CDEF - infects desktop files. No intentional damage, and doesn't
spread under system 7.x.

CLAP: nVIR variant that spoofs Disinfectant to avoid detection
(Disinfectant 3.6 recognizes it).

Code 1: file infector. Renames the hard drive to "Trent Saburo".
Accidental system crashes possible.

Code 252: infects application and system files. Triggers when run
between June 6th and December 31st. Runs a gotcha message ("You
have a virus. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Now erasing all disks...
[etc.]"), then self-deletes. Despite the message, no intentional
damage is done, though shutting down the Mac instead of clicking to
continue could cause damage. Can crash System 7 or damage files,
but doesn't spread beyond the System file. Doesn't spread under
System 6 with MultiFinder beyond System and MultiFinder. Can cause
various forms of accidental damage.

Code 9811: hides applications, replacing them with garbage files
named "something like 'FIDVCXWGJKJWLOI'." According to Ken Dunham
who reported this virus in November, "The most obvious symptom of
the virus is a desktop that looks like electronic worms and a
message that reads 'You have been hacked by the Pretorians.'"

Code 32767: once a month tries to delete documents. This virus is
not known to be in circulation.

Flag: unrelated to WDEF A and B, but was given the name WDEF-C in
some anti-virus software. Not intentionally damaging but when
spreading it overwrites any existing 'WDEF' resource of ID '0', an
action which might damage some files. This virus is not known to be
in circulation.

Frankie: only affects the Aladdin emulator on the Atari or Amiga.
Doesn't infect or trigger on real Macs or the Spectre emulator.
Infects application files and the Finder. Draws a bomb icon and
displays 'Frankie says: No more piracy!"

****: infects application and System files. No intentional damage.
(nVIR B strain)

Init 17: infects System file and applications. Displays message
"From the depths of Cyberspace" the first time it triggers.
Accidental damage, especially on 68K machines.

Init 29 (Init 29 A, B): Spreads rapidly. Infects system files,
applications, and document files (document files can't infect other
files, though). May display a message if a locked floppy is
accessed on an infected system 'The disk "xxxxx" needs minor
repairs. Do you want to repair it?'. No intentional damage, but can
cause several problems - Multiple infections, memory errors, system
crashes, printing problems, MultiFinder problems, startup document
incompatibilities.

Init 1984: Infects system extensions (INITs). Works under Systems 6
and 7. Triggers on Friday 13th. Damages files by renaming them,
changing file TYPE and file CREATOR, creation and modification
dates, and sometimes by deleting them.

Init-9403 (SysX): Infects applications and Finder under systems 6
and 7. Attempts to overwrite whole startup volume and disk
information on all connected hard drives. Only found on Macs
running the Italian version of MacOS.

Init-M: Replicates under System 7 only. Infects INITs and
application files. Triggers on Friday 13th. Similar damage
mechanisms to INIT-1984. May rename a file or folder to "Virus
MindCrime". Rarely, may delete files.

MacMag (Aldus, Brandow, Drew, Peace): first distributed as a
HyperCard stack Trojan, but only infected System files. Triggered
(displayed a peace message and self-deleted on March 2nd 1988, so
very rarely found.

MBDF (A,B): originated from the Tetracycle, Tetricycle or
"tetris-rotating" Trojan. The A strain was also distributed in
Obnoxious Tetris and Ten Tile Puzzle. Infect applications and
system files including System and Finder. Can cause accidental
damage to the System file and menu problems. A minor variant of
MBDF B appeared in summer 1997: Disinfectant and Virex have been
updated accordingly.

MDEF (MDEF A/Garfield, MDEF B/Top Cat, C, D): infect System file
and application files (D doesn't infect System). No intentional
damage, but can cause crashes and damaged files.

MDEF-E and MDEF-F: described as simple and benign. They infect
applications and system files with an 'MDEF' resource ID '0', not
otherwise causing file damage. These viruses are not known to be in
circulation.

nCAM: nVIR variant

nVIR (nVIR A, B, C - AIDS, ****, Hpat, Jude, MEV#, nFlu): infect
System and any opened applications. Extant versions don't cause
intentional damage. Payload is either beeping or (nVIR A) saying
"Don't panic" if MacInTalk is installed.

nVIR-f: nVIR variant.

prod: nVIR variant

Scores (Eric, Vult, NASA, San Jose Flu): aimed to attack two
applications that were never generally released. Can cause
accidental damage, though - system crashes, problems printing or
with MacDraw and Excel. Infects applications, Finder, DA Handler.

This was in 2000. OSX will get viruses eventually, its just time. Sadly your
post came off poor again, i dont what it is.As for 3d well, i dont know if Pixar,
DD,ILM,R&H,SIW,Dreamworks, the mill, framestore, passion,glassworks,orfanage,mpc,
rushes, cinecite,DI,RSP, manex, AL have ever been apple houses. Every place ive worked has never
used apples, but only for secretarial work.

But ive heard syncing of time-slice software using 30 mini-macs. So really in our industry
nothing is off the shelf - custom built, mixed up. And the worlds 3rd biggest server is all macs -
250 g5's.

The idea of pc/mac straight out the box is a misnomer, there both parts of part.Pc's have the
added benefit of tweaking pretty much anything. But plug-play support can be shite compared to mac.

This vaio has never had a virus. It does crash, it is flaky - but so is everything else out there
from pda's, to digital cameras, to computers. Where in the age of built in obselence.

[John-S]

I am well aware that their was virus's and stuff prior to OS X. I should have clerified more. Nobody uses anything prior to OS X now (since OS X has been out for like, 6 years or so) so why bother? Now OS X is Unix based and Rock Solid. Will there be a time??? At some point we will see a few.Will there be as many as windows? I'm assuming not by a long shot. 6 years and not 1 proven virus is one heck of a track record!

http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/vatech2/index2.html
(V-Tech.....Wow. Weighing in at 1,100 G5 Servers)

I don't know about all the mentioned places but I know ILM at least used to have a Mac team. Luma-Pictures uses macs. Pixar has alot of macs in thier making of videos. I could search and find more but why bother? There are definatly macs out there. Wether or not you seen them...... The comment that macs have only been used as secretarial work is a bit....Are you saying that 3D companies don't use macs for 3D work then? I believe that VFX houses utilize all platforms and 3D software alot of the time.

Macs are straite out of the box from my experiance....Period.

Vaio never had a virus? Never heard that one. Isn't this the same company thats shipping their systems with Norton AV? Norton AV is the worst product out there in my opinion.

[eek]

I am well aware that their was virus's and stuff prior to OS X. I should have clerified more. Nobody uses anything prior to OS X now (since OS X has been out for like, 6 years or so) so why bother? Now OS X is Unix based and Rock Solid. Will there be a time??? At some point we will see a few.Will there be as many as windows? I'm assuming not by a long shot. 6 years and not 1 proven virus is one heck of a track record!

http://www.apple.com/science/profiles/vatech2/index2.html
(V-Tech.....Wow. Weighing in at 1,100 G5 Servers)

I don't know about all the mentioned places but I know ILM at least used to have a Mac team. Luma-Pictures uses macs. Pixar has alot of macs in thier making of videos. I could search and find more but why bother? There are definatly macs out there. Wether or not you seen them...... The comment that macs have only been used as secretarial work is a bit....Are you saying that 3D companies don't use macs for 3D work then? I believe that VFX houses utilize all platforms and 3D software alot of the time.

Macs are straite out of the box from my experiance....Period.

Vaio never had a virus? Never heard that one. Isn't this the same company thats shipping their systems with Norton AV? Norton AV is the worst product out there in my opinion.

Yes im saying i dont know one vfx house that uses mac as the main stay platform. I know sh*tloads of pcs, linux,unix, houses. Im talking 3d here, not post, not photoshop. Post is another matter, and this is where great collaberation of the two platforms.

Sadly, i said my vaio. Not the worlds supply of them, and i got norton and its fine. Yes i could get kaspary or something, but we'll.

Sadly again , i said all the jobs ive worked at, macs werent part of the main stay. Please stop trying to construde my words to affect the entire world populus and cater to pc vs mac battles. I am not trying to fight you, i am making a point that they are the same (essentially).

The funny thing atm is that i find Bill Gates far more charismatic than steve, especially now stepping down and working on charitable work. From what ive read, seen and heard MS, are really trying to grow and learn. Now im not saying i love ms, i just seems the apple especially in there advertising are becoming arrogant.

And you should never become arrogant, but rather learn and work together. The tortoise and the hair.

The funny thing is that most people i know who use both, make them work together i did it all the time in uni. I think this vs is consumer problem and not a pro problem. Were just trying to get the job done.

I used unix about 7 years ago, on motion capture technology. There were virus' for it since 1997.

http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/security/vunix.html
http://antivirus.about.com/od/linuxunixviruses/
http://antivirus.about.com/od/virusdescriptions/l/blency.htm- a list of virus' on all platforms.
http://www.users.qwest.net/~eballen1/virefs.html (http://www.users.qwest.net/%7Eeballen1/virefs.html)
http://www.claymania.com/unix-viruses.html
http://www.viruslibrary.com/virusinfo/UnixViruses.htm
http://techrepublic.com.com/5100-1035_11-5054187.html

i could go on.


"A few years ago Tom Duff created a very persistent UNIX virus. At that point we had about 10-12 8th or 9th edition VAX 750s networked together. The virus lived in the slack space at the end of the executable, and changed the entry point to itself. When the program was executed, it searched the current directory, subdirectories, /bin, /usr/bin for writable, uninfected files and then infected them if there was enough space."

That server stuff is wild.

edit:

http://www.studiodaily.com/filmandvideo/people/careers/6372.html - mac 3d house
http://www.cgarchitect.com/upclose/article1_LUM.asp - another one

Thats cool! more encouraging as im thinking about the switch.

[Lone Deranger]

yawn... who gives a schnitzel......?

[John-S]

eek, Sorry for the vaio statement etc. I took your post wrong I think. Although I can tell you...Norton sucks. Alot of people with Norton claim they never had a virus until they ditched Norton and picked up an AV that actually doesn't bring your system to its knees and actually finds stuff. My advise....get rid of Norton in a hurry : ) (seriously, not trying to be sarcastic but I have a very long past with them)

As far as posting links to Unix virus's etc. I never said that a mac won't ever get a virus. I just said that after 5 years or so on OS X there hasn't been one. Alot of people claim thats becuase of Apples market share when thats just silly. Like I mentioned Apple has been parading the fact of no virus's or spyware for 5 years. I'm sure you realize how many people, including virus writers would love to see OS X fall. Plus the fact that with OS 9 there was virus's and with Linux there is virus's still with a small marketshare. I have been told since I bought my first mac in 2002 that Apple will soon see the day and still.....nothing. Everyone got all excited back in feb. but.....no virus. At some point you have to give credit where credit is due. 5 years of people telling me "just wait" and I'm still waiting.....If apple gets virus's or not relativily soon now I still will feel good about the 5 years I had with no worrys : ) vs the years I've had fighting the alternative.

Anyways, aside from the virus stuff, I'm sorry if I took your post wrong. Its really hard to understand if people are arguementative, conversational, etc when your typing and not talking. That is my bad.

Cool?

: )

[eek]

eek, Sorry for the vaio statement etc. I took your post wrong I think. Although I can tell you...Norton sucks. Alot of people with Norton claim they never had a virus until they ditched Norton and picked up an AV that actually doesn't bring your system to its knees and actually finds stuff. My advise....get rid of Norton in a hurry : ) (seriously, not trying to be sarcastic but I have a very long past with them)

As far as posting links to Unix virus's etc. I never said that a mac won't ever get a virus. I just said that after 5 years or so on OS X there hasn't been one. Alot of people claim thats becuase of Apples market share when thats just silly. Like I mentioned Apple has been parading the fact of no virus's or spyware for 5 years. I'm sure you realize how many people, including virus writers would love to see OS X fall. Plus the fact that with OS 9 there was virus's and with Linux there is virus's still with a small marketshare. I have been told since I bought my first mac in 2002 that Apple will soon see the day and still.....nothing. Everyone got all excited back in feb. but.....no virus. At some point you have to give credit where credit is due. 5 years of people telling me "just wait" and I'm still waiting.....If apple gets virus's or not relativily soon now I still will feel good about the 5 years I had with no worrys : ) vs the years I've had fighting the alternative.

Anyways, aside from the virus stuff, I'm sorry if I took your post wrong. Its really hard to understand if people are arguementative, conversational, etc when your typing and not talking. That is my bad.

Cool?

: )

Its all good man, we're actually having a pretty decent conversation - feels like im in the pub again :). I think were both on the same playing field now, and that we both get a tad annoyed by both sides trying the better themselves. Now we just need to convince the rest of the known world ;).

True about the osx virus stuff - that is one truism thats friggin awesome! - i for one would like to see an ad on that.

Yes, forum debate never really works, because the time difference, and just that fact that its more like statements than debate - but this time it worked out.:thumbsup:

[pixelmonk]

Aren't Apple users the most famous for being so dedicated to their platform? Keep users? Who's leaving? They just been gaining users for years now....soon the market share will finally reveal that : )

Like I said before (maybe to this quote already but I didn't looke back), I believe the next version of Premier will be Mac compatable again. But even if it wasn't, Adobe seems to always be about a year or so behind Apple in Editing Technology...who needs premier on mac? FCP Rocks : )
Heck, Shake being only 500 bucks now.....After Effects What???LOL (I know that they are discontinuing shake after this but Apple also states that the next software will be adaptable and I believe it will be just as cheap.



Hardcore apple users continue to say "soon the market share.. sooon... sooon". It barely moves with each quarter (sometimes -, sometimes +) Wash that statement down the drain.. old.

Premiere has actually gotten 10x better over the past couple versions and has even borrowed some interface and other things from FCP. But comparing the two is a dumb thing to do. Compare say and Avid with FCP.. not Premiere.

As for Shake.. comparing Shake to After Effects is pretty silly too. You'd be better off comparing After Effects with Motion. Try comparing Shake with say.... DF or maybe Nuke. And lastly, no, the next composting application by Apple will not be as cheap.

[John-S]

for one, I don't know if anyone caught this or if had been written about already in here but the screenshots were admitted to be fake and it was just announced that Steve Jobs will kickc off the WWDC in Augest with a preview of Leapard. (which we all knew already but they reannounced)

eek, Cool : )

pixelmonk, What are you talking about. Premier is supposed to be a direct competition to Final Cut Pro and was in the same price range. Why should I compare it to a more expensive package like avid? I learned video editing on both Premier and FCP and they have always meant to be competetiors to compare. Problem is that Premier is ALWAYS just a year or so behind FCP. Premier's new version just came out finally that will semi stack up against FCP. Right around the same time that FCP is due for another update within a little while. When FCP updates it will fly past Premier again and will have to wait for quite a while for Premier to update to be comparable again. Just look at how the packaged and designed Final Cut Studio to how Adobe redisigned thier studio. Look familiar?

I agree that shake usually shouldn't be compared to After Effects but now that its $500 cheaper then After Effects I'm gonna take my chance with buying that instead of upgrading for $200. Plus, why would you think that AE should be compared to Motion? Thats like comparing Photoshop to Elements (price and program). Who are you to say how much the next Apple compositing program will be? None of us have a clue on what it will be other then speculation. Why would they update Shake and lower the price so dramaticly if they are going to charge the crap out of you on the next one? Maybe they will, maybe they won't. I realize they dropped support but still, I bet if AE dropped support they would still stay in the same price range.

Hardcore apple users continue to say "soon the market share.. sooon... sooon". It barely moves with each quarter (sometimes -, sometimes +) Wash that statement down the drain.. old.
Well, I think it would be silly to wash that statement down the drain. Apple was growing tremediously in popularity, company size, you name it. Market share was teater tottering but alot of analysts were expecting the ipod halo to kick in and alot of them think it is starting now. Why would you wash that statement down the drain right at their highth of popularity, intel switch, price drops, computer of the year (time magazines and stuff), Bootcamp enabling you to run Windows, Linux, and OS X, etc. etc.

I'm sorry but I think now would be the best time to actually engage in using that comment if there was ever a good time : )

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