PDA

View Full Version : CGI Marlon Brando from Superman Returns


djprinec
06-20-2006, 12:11 AM
MOD EDIT: ANIMATION DIRECT LINKS :

Quicktime 7 - 640x480
Download the Quicktime here!!! (http://raincloud.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/supermanreturns/jor_el/jor_el_large.mov)

OR
http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/...or_el_large.mov (http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/supermanreturns/jor_el/jor_el_large.mov)


ipod Put It In Your Palm! (http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/supermanreturns/jor_el/jor_el_ipod.m4v)

windows media - 640x480 Or See It In This Format (http://raincloud.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/supermanreturns/jor_el/jor_el_large.asx)



This is way cool
http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=23646

kind regards
vikram rai, norway
www.djprince.no (http://www.djprince.no/)

rblitz7
06-20-2006, 12:25 AM
dang video isnt showing up!! anybody got a direct link?

PaulAdams
06-20-2006, 12:26 AM
That is very very cool. Top notch.

(If the QT doesn't work, the WMV/ASX should).

Bonedaddy
06-20-2006, 12:41 AM
And the worst kept visual effects secret of the past couple years leaks a little bit early. ;)

Very good work, y'all. Particularly the decision to re-project the animated textures as a last step -- that really sold it. Look forward to seeing it in theaters.

rblitz7
06-20-2006, 12:47 AM
That is very very cool. Top notch.

(If the QT doesn't work, the WMV/ASX should).
Yeah its working now, WOW, just WOW.

ChewyPixels
06-20-2006, 12:47 AM
Sweet!! Can't wait to see it up on the big screen!

Paul F Diaz
06-20-2006, 12:52 AM
The artist here have done a tremendous job on this show!!
Congrads!!!:applause:

heavyness
06-20-2006, 01:41 AM
i was wondering what they were going to do when i saw Marlon Brando (http://www.imdb.com/find?s=all&q=superman+returns) name on the imdb listing for the movie.

top notch. and the way they presented this little behind the scenes, very nice.

Shaderhacker
06-20-2006, 03:35 AM
Very freakin nice! :thumbsup:


-M

zzacmann
06-20-2006, 05:32 AM
Holy Crap! Thats Awsome! Too bad all that work is covered up by ice crystals in the final composite. You see so little of him through the ice that you could really do the performance with a hand puppet and I dont know if you could tell the difference. I hope we get some unobscurred shots in the film.

ptoeey
06-20-2006, 05:49 AM
Really cool!

Equinoxx
06-20-2006, 07:53 AM
that's looking totallycool indeed. Sure hope we get to see some less obscured shot because right now, I feel sorry for the artist that worked on it, seeing as you're not seeing it clear enough in that shot to truly appreciate it ...

Pentagramma
06-20-2006, 01:11 PM
Yes, very nice indeed! Canīt wait to see it on the big screen (in Brasil, thanks to the World Cup, itīll be released two weeks later than USA... :banghead: )

Charkins
06-20-2006, 03:05 PM
Thats really great! I appreciate the video to show their process.

I always thought there were weird ethical issues in bringing dead people back to life for another performance.

jewalker
06-20-2006, 04:43 PM
Here's a more direct link without the redirecting (for those using mplayer on linux):

http://pdl.warnerbros.com/wbmovies/supermanreturns/jor_el/jor_el_large.mov

MrPositive
06-20-2006, 05:10 PM
Well we know at least one Siggraph piece for electronic theatre.

ThirdEye
06-20-2006, 06:15 PM
Poor Brando, it's all i have to say.

jewalker
06-20-2006, 06:50 PM
double post.

mustan9
06-20-2006, 07:00 PM
Man, I feel for the guys that did all that work. Only to see most of it hidden behind foggy crystal.

That's kind of sad.

Skjoldbroder
06-20-2006, 07:04 PM
fine job!

i really like the aesthetics of the presentation as well, good sound work to compliment the visuals! ^_^

Jadetiger
06-20-2006, 07:22 PM
Holy crap that is awesome! Rythmn and Hues never ceases to amaze me. Great job guys!

harmonic01
06-20-2006, 07:27 PM
Wow, that is absolutely stunning. Congrats to all the artists at R&H who worked on it. I can't wait to see it in theaters. :buttrock:

LEGC
06-20-2006, 07:48 PM
Incredible work. :bounce:

AdamAtomic
06-20-2006, 07:50 PM
Really awesome enlightening process! I have to agree though, seeing the way its presented in the film, it seems like it would have been a little cheaper to just hire an actor who looks a lot like Marlon Brando :P Incredible vid though!

DSedov
06-20-2006, 07:54 PM
I always wonder how do you track geometry to match the face so close? Is there a software, or is it done by hand, by moving clusters ?

Great job BTW.

visionmaster2
06-20-2006, 08:35 PM
this presentation is a little piece of art ! :thumbsup:

mverta
06-20-2006, 08:48 PM
Actually, hiding it behind the crystals is what saved it. The raw "final" looked utterly artificial.

_Mike

opreska
06-20-2006, 08:54 PM
Cool video, I love how it went through the entire process.

However, wouldn't have been cheaper to hire a real actor....

Why not track Christopher Reeve's head as well...maybe for the sequel.

jewalker
06-20-2006, 09:01 PM
I believe they do all the tracking by hand. I know a friend of mine had to do some tracking for the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, and he did all the work by hand.

irananimator
06-20-2006, 09:16 PM
:banghead::banghead::banghead: just Wooooow. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

WhiteRabbitObj
06-20-2006, 09:33 PM
I always wonder how do you track geometry to match the face so close? Is there a software, or is it done by hand, by moving clusters ?


It's mostly done by hand. There can be ways to automate some of the process depending on the footage (need trackable points), but they have to be manipulated later by hand. If you want to see more of this type of work in a really just astounding level, make sure to watch Charlotte's Web.

TumikSmacker
06-20-2006, 09:40 PM
Maybe they 'THOUGHT' the final version didn't look perfect enough so they covered it with crystals :shrug:

TumikSmacker
06-20-2006, 09:42 PM
Why not track Christopher Reeve's head as well...maybe for the sequel.

Ya they should do that for the next Indy movie too :D

rblitz7
06-20-2006, 09:52 PM
Ya they should do that for the next Indy movie too :D
Are you talking about for the whole movie?? cause that would be crazy and I dont think Harrison would be happy about that.

elnady
06-20-2006, 09:55 PM
WOW

i can't believe my eyes

Fantastic work :thumbsup:

VonMarsch
06-20-2006, 10:24 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Very inspirational!

porkchopexpress
06-20-2006, 10:27 PM
Absolutely incredible work you have done here. Some of the very best I have seen. Well done. Thank you so much for putting that video together that showed how you did it. I am literally blown away.:buttrock:

IestynRoberts
06-20-2006, 10:55 PM
Actually, hiding it behind the crystals is what saved it. The raw "final" looked utterly artificial.

_Mike

Yeah i agree with you here Mike, there was something still not right about it, it looked good wehn they put it behind the crystal though.
-Iest

Antropus
06-20-2006, 11:23 PM
I agree. That smile is the most artificial thing imo. Dunno how they animated it, if with some flexible control/rig to help the blend shapes (bones or another type of "organic" deformation) or just using plain blend shapes because it does look very linear. When he appears behind of the crystal then it looks GREAT ;)

-Kris

MrPositive
06-21-2006, 12:36 AM
I agree. That smile is the most artificial thing imo. Dunno how they animated it, if with some flexible control/rig to help the blend shapes (bones or another type of "organic" deformation) or just using plain blend shapes because it does look very linear. When he appears behind of the crystal then it looks GREAT ;)

-Kris

Wow haven't seen you on here in ages! I agree that the facial animation is the only weak link here.....the actual shading and projection look fantastic however. I love how they got Marlin Brando in their picture hehehe

cosmonaut
06-21-2006, 01:00 AM
Dang, that's pretty dang cool. Can't wait to see this next week on the big screen...

JoelOtron
06-21-2006, 01:00 AM
Amazing work--fantastic presentation.

Thanks for posting!

Now lets all pray they arent working on a digital Richard Pryor....

krazyrokr
06-21-2006, 01:03 AM
wow thats some amazing stuff, cant wait to check out the final product

jrr
06-21-2006, 01:53 AM
i want to watch the movie, RIGHT NOW

earlyworm
06-21-2006, 01:53 AM
...the facial animation is the only weak link here.
That smile is the most artificial thing imo
The raw "final" looked utterly artificial.

If you had only been shown the finaled cg-element (before it got comp'd) and not the progression of the shot, I wonder would you still have the same opinion?

mr Bob
06-21-2006, 02:13 AM
Awesome stuff .......

webhead
06-21-2006, 02:22 AM
that's looking totallycool indeed. Sure hope we get to see some less obscured shot because right now, I feel sorry for the artist that worked on it, seeing as you're not seeing it clear enough in that shot to truly appreciate it ...

Yes, it does seem some of the finer details can't be fully appreciated with Brando's face being obscured by the ice in the shots shown. I was a big fan of the first two Superman films with Christopher Reeve and am very glad that the new film pays tribute to them, but I must admit, I was never a big fan of much of the designs of the Kryptonian technology and infrastructure. Very cold, extremely asymetrical designs that seemed very unpractical in a functional sense. The fact that recorded images are projected through ice/crystal that obscures what you are looking at is a perfect example of highly advanced technology that still isn't quite ready for prime-time yet.

angel
06-21-2006, 02:34 AM
beautiful work, I'm looking forward to this film. Congratulations to the folks involved. Damn nice.

leigh
06-21-2006, 02:47 AM
That's some very cool work! It's stuff like this that makes working in VFX so much fun :D Congrats to the R+H crew.

Blacklion
06-21-2006, 04:45 AM
Wow very cool stuff

Stefan-Morrell
06-21-2006, 06:04 AM
You do not remember me


I could imagine one would go somewhat mad hearing the same line over & over till the shot is done..well done to the R&H team

polywrangler
06-21-2006, 06:10 AM
Well its not Brando

Antropus
06-21-2006, 07:02 AM
If you had only been shown the finaled cg-element (before it got comp'd) and not the progression of the shot, I wonder would you still have the same opinion?


The fact is: the progression was shown...
And btw, if you are going to quote what I wrote, please, quote the whole thing. Please include this, for example When he appears behind of the crystal then it looks GREAT :) Again, great work.
-Kris

MrPositive
06-21-2006, 07:38 AM
If you had only been shown the finaled cg-element (before it got comp'd) and not the progression of the shot, I wonder would you still have the same opinion?















Hey I really do believe it is amazing still......I think I mentioned that. It's possible that the progression showed some weirdness and that led me to be more focused on it than usual..... Or just that the facial animation was off just a tad.....no biggie. It is still extremely well done.

animalunae
06-21-2006, 07:59 AM
That's some very cool work! It's stuff like this that makes working in VFX so much fun :D Congrats to the R+H crew.

I agree! I'm dying for an assignment like this! :bounce:

animalunae
06-21-2006, 08:02 AM
If you had only been shown the finaled cg-element (before it got comp'd) and not the progression of the shot, I wonder would you still have the same opinion?




I must agree with the comments, especially the smile shape is a bit basic, and it doesnt really matter if the final thing works, it does work, that's great, so for an average Joe, it works, but we're cg artists dammit! ^^

DDS
06-21-2006, 08:35 AM
holy crap. I can't believe it! I think that this is a cool step to admit that you can't recreate human being perfectly, and just try to get the job done.

Big step in CG indeed, more ethical than physical to me.

AnimZiggy
06-21-2006, 08:41 AM
Poor Brando, it's all i have to say.

i have to agree with 3rd eye...

anakinbrego
06-21-2006, 09:06 AM
Why didn't you guys retain the originl head shape?:sad:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7430/test8xp25fc.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

earlyworm
06-21-2006, 09:46 AM
The fact is: the progression was shown...

I was asking a theorectical question.

And btw, if you are going to quote what I wrote, please, quote the whole thing.

My point wasn't about what you thought of the final comp, it was to do with the cg element. So I quoted what you said about the cg element. I don't believe the quote I selected was out of context.

To put my own two cents into this, and the original reason I asked this question, was because I thought after watching the progression, that if I had been unaware that this was CG and I hadn't seen this behind-the-scenes glimpse. I would have just assumed it was from the '78 film, and the only VFX work would have been to comp it into the ice crystal.

Seen as how you thought the element (more specifically the smile) looked artifical, I was wondering if you would have had a different opinion of the piece had you seen it in isolation.

I wasn't trying to be snarky or rude. Just curious.

APD-Jack
06-21-2006, 09:52 AM
Impressive:bounce: I love these solutions.. Very appreciative effort..

Congrats :thumbsup:

Antropus
06-21-2006, 10:01 AM
earlyworm,
Sure, no problem. The thing is, after some time working on the VFX industry and seeing loads of character comp/animation everyday, you start paying more attention to what's wrong, you know? CG artists are very VERY picky, at least myself and the ones that I know of :)
This way, I believe that some people will notice what's wrong right away. Others will think it's perfect... but something is not quite there yet then they will notice what's wrong after some time. And finally, there are the happy ones that will never notice any problem and because of that they will simply enjoy the movie without any concern about CG small flaws. These are the HUGE majority, not the CG artists. The movie have this majority as target, not me or any picky CG artist, imho. I wish I could be one of the happy ones :)

Then again: the final result is what counts and the final result is great, as I said twice.

Over,
-Kris

ratbaggy
06-21-2006, 10:19 AM
wowee. that's awesome. there should be more insights like this (i.e. with more detail)

thanks for sharing.

mrt909
06-21-2006, 11:03 AM
totally appreciate the effort gone into this edit..never mind the actual work!


things like this are pricless to people still learning about the industry, which includes everyone i suppose.

thanks a lot, keep them coming!

Reverence
06-21-2006, 11:05 AM
Woah.. This is wicked:bounce: ... Awesome work there...:thumbsup:
hmmm i found it funny that the casting directors doesnt want to have a new face for this character..
Well it's bringing up a new challenge to reincarnate people from the past.. lolz... horray archives..
Thanks for sharing a peek of the process... and congratz to you and the team, i bet this will be a hit of 2006..
Btw.. i'm anxious to see the movie.. and tell my friends this scene.. hehe i'm amazed...

earlyworm
06-21-2006, 11:25 AM
The thing is, after some time working on the VFX industry and seeing loads of character comp/animation everyday, you start paying more attention to what's wrong, you know? CG artists are very VERY picky, at least myself and the ones that I know of :)

Don't worry, I know what you mean. I've probably picked apart some of your shots un-knowingly, and you've probably done the same with shots I've worked on.

movielad
06-21-2006, 11:48 AM
I thought it looked really good. I was expecting, however, to see the character fully (as in walking around talking to people, perhaps in a pre-Krypton explosion sequence or something) rather than behind distorted ice crystal thingies, but nonetheless the demonstration was very impressive.

Does anybody else think that animating actors who have passed away a bit .. creepy? MPC brought back Gene Kelly for the Volkswagen Singing in the Rain ad (why and how the Kelly estate approved it other than for pure monetary purposes I don't know). I'm wonder how long it'll be before we see a new film starring Charlie Chaplin, Buster Keaton, Harold Lloyd and .. Lee Evans working together in an hilarious adventure?

Technology scares me at times, it really does.. :)

M.

sathe
06-21-2006, 12:53 PM
Great work guys, i walked past this video at the end and didnt notice a thing. I was waiting for the cg part but it never came :).
I feel sorry for the guys who had to gather and comp the audio, that would have been painfull at best.

thewave
06-21-2006, 01:06 PM
I went with my uncle, a national movie critic, to see it on Father's Day in Indianapolis.

The movie made me feel like I was 4 years old again...I wanted to fly.

First off:
Huge att-a-boys to R & H...they did an amazing job. (I wondered about those shots...I though "Isn't he dead? Is that some old B-Roll?" now that I now what happened and how that was accomplished.....supa-kudos boys and girls.

They have done a great job on the film, but I felt it was about a half an hour too long. Of course that seems to be the norm now-a-days...let the directors and producers have their "full control" over the final finished film, but I think if you are going to make a movie that is 2:37:00 and especially one as influential as Superman, you shouldn't have any unneeded clips of fluffy tape to drag the awesome parts of the film down.

I wasn't real happy with they way they cut the climax....everything seemed out of sorts. I left the feeling like I had just been thrown the best steak of my life, but wasn't allowed to eat it. It was almost anti-climatic.

The effects of course are very well produced, story wasn't quite what I had hoped...but served well enough. Kevin Spacey definitely IS Lex Luthor...he gives a nice little nod to Gene Hackman for his performance, but then follows Anakin Skywalker to the dark side.

I would like to have seen some more hold-action fly-by shots....usually they shot Superman moving so fast when he was flying you never got a feeling of emotion about his purpose.

Don't go to this film expecting to see a movie which will move you like X-Men I, or The Matrix I...this film may not move you in that way, I know it didn't for me. Instead what it did is rekindle the flame of a childhood dream....to be Superman.

vfx
06-21-2006, 01:14 PM
Bah - wasted when the final composite is put together... shame! Why couldn't they have just taken the footage (original) mapped it onto a simpel face shape, and then doene the composite - no one would notice due to the crystal deformations.

p.s. Honestly still doesn't look like he's saying - You do not remeber me.

Doctor Nick
06-21-2006, 01:34 PM
are you kidding? wasted? only the pople that have seen the movie know to what extent they used jor-el, I mean brando. mapped to a sphere? are you kidding me? oh, well, everyone is a freaking expert!

Doctor Nick
06-21-2006, 02:12 PM
are you kidding? wasted? only the pople that have seen the movie know to what extent they used jor-el, I mean brando. mapped to a sphere? are you kidding me? oh, well, everyone is a freaking expert!

JeroenDStout
06-21-2006, 02:47 PM
are you kidding? wasted? only the pople that have seen the movie know to what extent they used jor-el, I mean brando. mapped to a sphere? are you kidding me? oh, well, everyone is a freaking expert!
WHO SAID ANYTHING IT BEING A SPHERE!

You KNOW too much, matey!

</ Bus Pirates reference>

ivanisavich
06-21-2006, 03:40 PM
Great to see this kind of technology being experimented with for feature films!

The composite stills look great and legitimate, however, the lipsync is WAAAY off....to the point where it doesn't look like he fully pronounces any of the words properly. That being said, I'm assuming corners were cut since the R&H crew knew he would be surrounded by ice crystals, therefore the lipsync quality really doesn't matter in the big picture.

Way to go guys! Hope to see more stuff like this in other films :)

grrinc
06-21-2006, 06:06 PM
As good as this work is, I have to ask why did they bother? We are asked to accept Superman, Lois Lane and Lex Luther are being played by different actors, so why not this dude? This is not to take anything away from the great artists at R&H, they did a cracking job.

BookMansBlues
06-21-2006, 06:23 PM
As good as this work is, I have to ask why did they bother? We are asked to accept Superman, Lois Lane and Lex Luther are being played by different actors, so why not this dude? This is not to take anything away from the great artists at R&H, they did a cracking job.

A) because it's Brando,

B) because if they made a cg Reeves character that would have been very expencive because he would have had to have been in most of the movie.

C) if they brought back all the major actors they would have had to have done age reduction ala X-men3 becuase all the material available for Reeves is from a good long time ago.

D) because it's just really Fircken cool, I think Brando comtributed more to the Superman Movies coolness factors that just about anything.

I have to say I'm really looking forward to this movie when it comes out here real soon :D

phobos78
06-21-2006, 06:47 PM
The composite stills look great and legitimate, however, the lipsync is WAAAY off....to the point where it doesn't look like he fully pronounces any of the words properly. That being said, I'm assuming corners were cut since the R&H crew knew he would be surrounded by ice crystals, therefore the lipsync quality really doesn't matter in the big picture.



Sorry, Gotta stand up for our animation crew, I think they nailed it. People don't really pronounce words like a lot of animation wants you to believe. You can't do the don bluth over exaggeration when you are doing a very realistic character. Really watch how people talk...You might be suprised.

from the Brando footage I saw, i think they got it right.

If i didn't know it was CG, i wouldn't even question it....

oh...and our animation team doesn't cut corners...:) (not being sarcastic, I just know how hard everyone worked)

mustan9
06-21-2006, 08:01 PM
EDIT: Never mind :)

amcmanness
06-21-2006, 08:15 PM
Sorry, Gotta stand up for our animation crew, I think they nailed it. People don't really pronounce words like a lot of animation wants you to believe. You can't do the don bluth over exaggeration when you are doing a very realistic character. Really watch how people talk...You might be suprised.

from the Brando footage I saw, i think they got it right.

If i didn't know it was CG, i wouldn't even question it....

oh...and our animation team doesn't cut corners...:) (not being sarcastic, I just know how hard everyone worked)

Superb job to everyone at R+H. I love seeing videos like this, it made my week! Keep up the great work.

danielkenobi
06-21-2006, 10:02 PM
Holy Crap! Thats Awsome! Too bad all that work is covered up by ice crystals in the final composite. You see so little of him through the ice that you could really do the performance with a hand puppet and I dont know if you could tell the difference. I hope we get some unobscurred shots in the film.

After reading that comment the artist killed himself lol

Have you seen that this is going to be in Imax 3d??? this is great a big step in comercial movie making. The only comercial movie, before this one that I know it was in Imax 3d, is Polar Express. Am i wrong? So exited to watch it.
Great work

toonafish
06-21-2006, 10:02 PM
huh !? It's funny, but come on.....am I the only one who sees Brandon's new mouth doesn't even resemble the original ?? And then the lipsync, it's like...well...a cheap game character.

Obraxis
06-21-2006, 10:32 PM
Sorry, Gotta stand up for our animation crew, I think they nailed it. People don't really pronounce words like a lot of animation wants you to believe. You can't do the don bluth over exaggeration when you are doing a very realistic character. Really watch how people talk...You might be suprised.

from the Brando footage I saw, i think they got it right.

If i didn't know it was CG, i wouldn't even question it....

oh...and our animation team doesn't cut corners...:) (not being sarcastic, I just know how hard everyone worked)

You guys did a great job I have to say. By far some of the best of this kind of work I've ever seen. It's obvious you guuys worked VERY hard on this, so kudos to you.

Looking at the R&H work however, personally I felt that there was still something a little rigid in the face. I realise this may be because your combining both live-action and CG.

Can I ask, why was it you decided to use the original footage, rather than simply make Brando fully CG?

Again, great work to everyone involved!

JeroenDStout
06-21-2006, 10:33 PM
In secret, they used 10% of the budget to video tape someone doing the lines, copy the moving mouth over Brando's face and 20% of the budget to build a very lengthy digital video showing how they did it 'for real'. The remaining 70% was vacation money.

ivanisavich
06-21-2006, 11:21 PM
Hey matt,

No worries mate.....I'm definitely not ragging on the animation crew! I think they've fully proved their worth on past projects to the point where I hold the guys at R&H up in the same light that I do ILM and Weta, that being said....I was still taken aback by the fact that even though everything else in this clip is top-notch, the lip sync is definitely off. More specifically, when he says "r-e-Member"...his lips don't touch on the first "M", which makes it look like he's saying "re-ember" (it's impossible to pronounce an "m" without touching your lips together, hence the oddity), and the pronounciation of the inital "re" is off. I think the rest of the sync is pretty good....what sucks though is that "remember" is the longest word he says, which means that it's kind of the "hero" word, and if that one seems off...they all do. Don't mean to be such a nit-picker, but I noticed that right away.

That being said....I know how hard it can be to get lipsync right...and I don't think I've ever done a lipsync that was 100% spot-on....so you guys still get full points :)

As for "cutting corners"...I simply meant that I figured the animators must have kept the lip sync the way it is because the mouth is quite obscured in the final shot. In the same sense, you could say they "cut corners" by not modelling the back of his head, because you never see it. Knowudimean? ;)

phobos78
06-21-2006, 11:34 PM
Hey matt,

No worries mate.....I'm definitely not ragging on the animation crew! I think they've fully proved their worth on past projects to the point where I hold the guys at R&H up in the same light that I do ILM and Weta, that being said....I was still taken aback by the fact that even though everything else in this clip is top-notch, the lip sync is definitely off. More specifically, when he says "r-e-Member"...his lips don't touch on the first "M", which makes it look like he's saying "re-ember" (it's impossible to pronounce an "m" without touching your lips together, hence the oddity), and the pronounciation of the inital "re" is off. I think the rest of the sync is pretty good....what sucks though is that "remember" is the longest word he says, which means that it's kind of the "hero" word, and if that one seems off...they all do. Don't mean to be such a nit-picker, but I noticed that right away.

That being said....I know how hard it can be to get lipsync right...and I don't think I've ever done a lipsync that was 100% spot-on....so you guys still get full points :)

As for "cutting corners"...I simply meant that I figured the animators must have kept the lip sync the way it is because the mouth is quite obscured in the final shot. In the same sense, you could say they "cut corners" by not modelling the back of his head, because you never see it. Knowudimean? ;)



Thanks for the animation lesson :thumbsup:

Haha, i'm just kidding...I certainly understand lip sync,...The main reason i like what was done on brando was the fact that it is very understated...I think it would look incredible fake if you were to give it the normal 12 phonemes and just plug them in...

as for the M...perhaps, i would have to look at it again, But take into account that not everybody talks the same...in something like this, its way more important to move the mouth like brando would, not as the animator would....if that makes sense...and in that sense..i think it looks great..

But its really just my opinion, it doesn't make yours any less valid... watch the movie and see what you think.

-M

:D

phobos78
06-21-2006, 11:36 PM
Hey matt,

No worries mate.....I'm definitely not ragging on the animation crew! I think they've fully proved their worth on past projects to the point where I hold the guys at R&H up in the same light that I do ILM and Weta, that being said....I was still taken aback by the fact that even though everything else in this clip is top-notch, the lip sync is definitely off. More specifically, when he says "r-e-Member"...his lips don't touch on the first "M", which makes it look like he's saying "re-ember" (it's impossible to pronounce an "m" without touching your lips together, hence the oddity), and the pronounciation of the inital "re" is off. I think the rest of the sync is pretty good....what sucks though is that "remember" is the longest word he says, which means that it's kind of the "hero" word, and if that one seems off...they all do. Don't mean to be such a nit-picker, but I noticed that right away.

That being said....I know how hard it can be to get lipsync right...and I don't think I've ever done a lipsync that was 100% spot-on....so you guys still get full points :)

As for "cutting corners"...I simply meant that I figured the animators must have kept the lip sync the way it is because the mouth is quite obscured in the final shot. In the same sense, you could say they "cut corners" by not modelling the back of his head, because you never see it. Knowudimean? ;)



Thanks for the animation lesson :thumbsup:

Haha, i'm just kidding...I certainly understand lip sync,...The main reason i like what was done on brando was the fact that it is very understated...I think it would look incredible fake if you were to give it the normal 12 phonemes and just plug them in...

as for the M...perhaps, i would have to look at it again, But take into account that not everybody talks the same...in something like this, its way more important to move the mouth like brando would, not as the animator would....if that makes sense...and in that sense..i think it looks great..

But its really just my opinion, it doesn't make yours any less valid... watch the movie and see what you think.

-M

:D


oh, and i didn't work on Superman here, i was on another film....so I'm just cheering on my fellow artists..

Quatermass
06-21-2006, 11:52 PM
If one has a closer look at the footage of Brando that they show at the beginning of the clip, you will notice that the guy didn't have an enormous amout of movement in the top lip when speaking. Frankly, the last shot in clip gives me the chills when he says 'Kal-el'.

hiphopcr
06-21-2006, 11:53 PM
I wanna know who put that thing together... fantastic presentation! (Can he put my demo reel together?) :)

And yeah, when it's comped into the ice crystals it all goes bye bye, I mean, it could've been done Conan O'Brian style and no one would've noticed! Ah well, just reminds me how much work artists put into effects without any ever knowing how much time it took.

ivanisavich
06-21-2006, 11:57 PM
Thanks for responding man,

And you're right....I guess I'll just have to wait until Friday to really be able to form an opinion. I can only assume he says more than that one line in the movie, so I look forward to seeing how the rest of the replacements turned out. :)

agreenster
06-22-2006, 12:35 AM
Perhaps what people are noticing is the 'quicker than real' lip tween around "ber me" of "remember me" at the beginning of the demo. Mouths cant move that fast, so it looks unrealistic. Some people call it lip flutter which you get a lot from auto-synch programs. However, the final animation at the end (before the composite) is much much better. I also like the lip compress after he finishes speaking.

I think most of the critique we're seeing on this board is of the animation in the middle of the demo, not at the end (where it says "Veryify final animation from multiple angles") which seems much more on.

sekocan
06-22-2006, 10:30 AM
it is awesome.. yeah.. it may have some mistakes but especially the presentation is wonderful.. all teh arrows and the compositing, everything :) :thumbsup:

Iguanaman
06-22-2006, 03:25 PM
I thought the final result was excellent. Especially true when I view the very end (skipping to the end) and then showing the result to other people. Nobody sees it being fake at all. Where do you get the audio though? A Brando impersonator or did you splice other things he said to make the new words?

dpkonofa
06-24-2006, 11:40 PM
yeah... at first i didn't think that the lipsync looked that great but after re-watching the multiple angled part and the final product, this looks great!

as for the people wondering where the sounds came from, they're from cuts from the first movie. if you look at the ending of this creating reel, you hear a line about the 'total accumulated knowledge from the 18 known galaxies'. this is a line that brando recorded dialogue for but never recorded on film. it's from the scene where the spaceship is travelling to earth and kal-el is being taught everything about earth. watch the first movie and go to that part and you'll hear the line, minus the brando footage.

ps. the 'kal-el' line looks spot on and i seriously got chills when i saw that...

revilo3D
06-25-2006, 06:48 AM
I think its very nicey done :) For those commenting on the overkill regarding the final comp.. once up on a giant screen that sort of attention is required for even such a obsured shot.

I did feel a little funny about the lip sync, but only after analyzing.. rememeber that things change once you look at it.

My final comment and that really floats my boat would have to be the audio in that presentation.. GAh.. i loved it. I know it was just a loop based thing but something about that piece was powerful and deep. I produce music too and that was some juicy mood envoking stuff right there. I take its from the final film?

Cant wait to see the movie - i loved superman when i was a kid!

gridlocke12
06-26-2006, 12:41 AM
Whoah! Simply superb! Cant wait to see the virtual Brando on the bigscreen. I grew up watching his films - so its going to be great to see him once again! :D
WOOOOT!

CGTalk Moderation
06-26-2006, 12:41 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.