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skycastle
06-11-2006, 09:52 PM
Just to keep everyone updated on Mudbox Beta progress. Follow the link to the latest GUI screenshots!

Please visit:
http://www.mudbox3d.com

The shoe details on the page were created 100% inside Mudbox by a founding member of Skymatter, Tibor Madjar.

The models on screen represent 5,341,184 quad polys.

We wanted to show something other than the monsters we always have fun creating :)

More details to come!

Phrenzy84
06-11-2006, 09:57 PM
very nice.

Nice to see an object list in there. So are displacements in Mudbox yet? or are they planned im guessing?

Thanks for the update.

SheepFactory
06-11-2006, 09:58 PM
That looks awesome as far as interfaces go. its simple enough that I am sure one can pick it up and learn it very fast.

Sonk
06-11-2006, 09:58 PM
Just to keep everyone updated on Mudbox Beta progress. Follow the link to the latest GUI screenshots!

Please visit:
http://www.mudbox3d.com

The shoe details on the page were created 100% inside Mudbox by a founding member of Skymatter, Tibor Madjar.

The models on screen represent 5,341,184 quad polys.

We wanted to show something other than the monsters we always have fun creating :)

More details to come!

wow thanks! OMG 5 million polys! may i ask what Mr Tibor system specs is(ram, cpu, gpu)?

mech7
06-11-2006, 10:06 PM
I hope all elements are dockable like in z.. as the alpha's has not much real estate :)

skycastle
06-11-2006, 10:07 PM
This is the base mesh that was imported into Mudbox to begin sculpting with. It is multiple objects and pretty lowRes as you can tell.

To see the result after working inside Mudbox:
http://www.mudbox3d.com/guiPreview.html

StephD
06-11-2006, 10:11 PM
looks like a very smart interface.
just after a quick look at those screenshots, you get how the thing works, very nice.

Sonk
06-11-2006, 10:24 PM
This is the base mesh that was imported into Mudbox to begin sculpting with. It is multiple objects and pretty lowRes as you can tell.

To see the result after working inside Mudbox:
http://www.mudbox3d.com/guiPreview.html

As far as import meshes into Mudbox, does it currently support N-gons(5 or more side polygons)?

Plasmatic
06-11-2006, 10:26 PM
This is the base mesh that was imported into Mudbox to begin sculpting with. It is multiple objects and pretty lowRes as you can tell.

To see the result after working inside Mudbox:
http://www.mudbox3d.com/guiPreview.html

Holy hell! That's awesome!

SoulVector
06-11-2006, 11:09 PM
Very nice indeed. You seem to have nailed down the essentials. Im looking forward to have it in my arsenal.

skycastle
06-11-2006, 11:41 PM
Here is a link to an interview with Kolby Jukes speaking about Mudbox.

http://www.cgcentral.net/main/articles/635-interview_with_kolby_jukes.html

sevenfingers
06-11-2006, 11:46 PM
I'm absolutely loving the simplicity of the interface. Exactly how I want it.
I'm already waving my credit card (as long as Idon't have to sell a kidney to afford it) :)

skello
06-12-2006, 12:58 AM
capable of storing morph/target shapes yet?

DDS
06-12-2006, 12:59 AM
so simple interface it's boring

:twisted:

Wayniac
06-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Dave, Mudbox looks so dreamy. Awesome to see normal mapping ability already implemented. I have a gut feeling this tool is going to raise the bar even higher in the Digital Renaissance going on right now. I'm so thankful there are devoted folks like those at Skymatter creating a tool which helps artists bring their creations to fruition. Look forward to test driving her soon!

yolao
06-12-2006, 01:26 AM
Dave i post this in the other thread...and i post it here in case you have not seen it


a note to Skymatter MUD BOX.

You have a page to apply to the beta team, but as i have heard the only one that get the chance to apply are those well known artist or artist from well known studios.

Why don`t you make a organic modeling contest where anybody can enter...and the winner get a seat to join the beta team of mud box..

And i say modeling contest because is what mud box is all about..

please consider this petition.

thanks

p.s. that shoe looks fantastic

shingo
06-12-2006, 01:54 AM
It would seem pretty limited, even pointless, if it wasn't right?

very nice.

Nice to see an object list in there. So are displacements in Mudbox yet? or are they planned im guessing?

Thanks for the update.

shingo
06-12-2006, 01:55 AM
Docking is only one approach. Tabs are just as effective.

I hope all elements are dockable like in z.. as the alpha's has not much real estate :)

skycastle
06-12-2006, 02:53 AM
a note to Skymatter MUD BOX.

You have a page to apply to the beta team, but as i have heard the only one that get the chance to apply are those well known artist or artist from well known studios.

The beta team will be expanded in a series of rounds, and we will be contacting a limited number of users for the first round as early as this week.

M.E.L.
06-12-2006, 03:07 AM
lookin good :thumbsup:

Sparty
06-12-2006, 03:25 AM
"The beta team will be expanded in a series of rounds, and we will be contacting a limited number of users for the first round as early as this week."

Awesome! =)

pnoland
06-12-2006, 04:55 AM
The only thing I can say is *droooooly drooly drooly drooly* nothing more, nothing less.

P_T
06-12-2006, 05:18 AM
This is the base mesh that was imported into Mudbox to begin sculpting with. It is multiple objects and pretty lowRes as you can tell.

Will there be poly modelling tools in Mudbox like Silo? As it is, Silo has great modelling tools while the sculpting tool is not up to par with ZB or MB. Zbrush on the other hand has great sculpting tools and while Zsphere is enough to make a base mesh, you need to export it to other apps to get nice edgeloops to prevent over-subdividing. It'll be nice if you can do both in Mudbox, streamlining the workflow.

-JT-
06-12-2006, 05:40 AM
yes ! great to see it can be useful for product design !!
and the interface looks as simple as Silo, which is very good.

yinako
06-12-2006, 06:08 AM
hey! the interface is simlar to maya's artisan :) radius, strength and flood.

Phrenzy84
06-12-2006, 06:15 AM
It would seem pretty limited, even pointless, if it wasn't right?

oh yeah, but a few weeks ago i heard there wasnt Displacement in the current build. One feature i heard was the ability to generate normal maps with an alpha that was the displacement but again i cant say for sure. Sound like a neat feature.

Must say even though i like Zbrush UI, i really like this one. Minimal, is always best. Like silo, wings3d, simplicity. Zbrush has a well laid out UI for what it can do, because mudbox is (at the moment) specializing in just sculpting they havent gone wild with buttons etc. Hope hotkeys have some sort of sticky key feature, but i guess i will have to wait.

Sonk
06-12-2006, 06:17 AM
oh yeah, but a few weeks ago i heard there wasnt Displacement in the current build. One feature i heard was the ability to generate normal maps with an alpha that was the displacement but again i cant say for sure. Sound like a neat feature.

Must say even though i like Zbrush UI, i really like this one. Minimal, is always best. Like silo, wings3d, simplicity. Zbrush has a well laid out UI for what it can do, because mudbox is (at the moment) specializing in just sculpting they havent gone wild with buttons etc. Hope hotkeys have some sort of sticky key feature, but i guess i will have to wait.

"Since Dave from Skymatter mentioned this in another forum, I will say that you can currently extract both displacement and normal maps in Mudbox. There is also the ability to extract either type of maps from arbitrary meshes. This means that you can sculpt the highres mesh, and save it to disc, then bring in your low res mesh with UV's etc., and extract maps from the mesh on disc. This allows you to extract maps from a virtually limitless dataset. If you can create it and save it to disc, you can extract a map from it.

You can also extract maps in any bit depth, 8, 16, or float. You can do some other cool things. I am personally fond of extracting a normal map, and storing the displacement information in the alpha channel of the normal map."

http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=48316&postcount=147

poly-phobic
06-12-2006, 06:29 AM
hey! the interface is simlar to maya's artisan :) radius, strength and flood.

aaahh, dont say that.

even if its true. hehe:D

yinako
06-12-2006, 06:36 AM
aaahh, dont say that.

even if its true. hehe:D


why? is that bad? or you dont like mayas artisan? I'm sure they made it easy for people using maya and max to jump in quickly. theres a shelf down the bottom, and an object list like deafualt outlinear listing of 4 cameras and lights.

methuDmaN
06-12-2006, 06:47 AM
Fairly simple UI, non intimidating in my view!

I can't wait to see some demo videos of it in action.

mustique
06-12-2006, 07:51 AM
Did I tell ya that I love Mudbox?

Nemoid
06-12-2006, 08:08 AM
"Since Dave from Skymatter mentioned this in another forum, I will say that you can currently extract both displacement and normal maps in Mudbox. There is also the ability to extract either type of maps from arbitrary meshes. This means that you can sculpt the highres mesh, and save it to disc, then bring in your low res mesh with UV's etc., and extract maps from the mesh on disc. This allows you to extract maps from a virtually limitless dataset. If you can create it and save it to disc, you can extract a map from it.

You can also extract maps in any bit depth, 8, 16, or float. You can do some other cool things. I am personally fond of extracting a normal map, and storing the displacement information in the alpha channel of the normal map."

http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=48316&postcount=147

do this means u can use one map to displace and normal at the same time? this would be actually awesome :)

Stefan-Morrell
06-12-2006, 08:14 AM
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 38 (32 members and 6 guests)


these Mudbox threads sure do get a lot of viewers :thumbsup:

good to hear the beta list will be expanded

BinarySoup
06-12-2006, 11:18 AM
yes, it looks really neat. all the important brushes from zbrush are there, albeit some with slightly different names. also great with what I assume is a polygon face selection mode, this will make grouping polygons very easy. also having quick tabbed selection of different falloff's/alphas/stencils is great. now, smooth in zbrush seems to have been divided here into a separate smooth and a flatten brush, apart from that it seems to be much the same brush lineup as in zbrush. are there any changes behind the hood of these brushes, or do they operate/feel much the same way as in zbrush? also, I do alot of small detailing using the decobrush in zbrush projection master, is there something similar in mudbox? maybe the scratch tool?

the object handling looks great, and I really like the clean tabbed interface. and judging by the praise from some top modelers, the actual sculpturing should be top notch. really looking forward to mudbox.

yolao
06-12-2006, 11:59 AM
The beta team will be expanded in a series of rounds, and we will be contacting a limited number of users for the first round as early as this week.

thanks Dave...lucky those well known artist from well known studios that will have the chance to test it....this app really looks fantastic.

yolao
06-12-2006, 12:06 PM
As it is, Silo has great modelling tools while the sculpting tool is not up to par with ZB or MB.

in my opinion silo 2 will be on par with zbrush and mudbox for sculpting with the exception perhaps of micro details like pores and small wrinkles.

shingo
06-12-2006, 01:04 PM
Well, with all due respects, you're oponion in this case is waaaay off the mark.

in my opinion silo 2 will be on par with zbrush and mudbox for sculpting with the exception perhaps of micro details like pores and small wrinkles.

Phrenzy84
06-12-2006, 01:14 PM
See I dont expect silo 2.0 to be a zbrush-like app. I see it more of a go-between. Something where you can make a model, either making it from scratch or from very low rez geoemtry, then using the topology brush and then doing a bit more sculpting, generate the displacement map then go into Mudbox and apply the displacement map and then sculpt ontop of that.

There are so many workflows that will be adopted.

At the moment my workflow is Wings3d/Silo (organic) or Maya (architecual) > Wings3d for UV > Zbrush (Scultping/Detail & texutring) > Photoshop 7 (more texturing) > Houdini & Maya (scene) > Halo (comp)

Add mudbox to the mix and it another link in the chain.

At the moment though the thing that slows this whole process down for me is the amount of detila i can put into my models, now i have to use Multiple UV maps for my characters and working with Buffer zones (thanks Dave) and making sure i get everything working that there arent any seems so Mudbox will eliminate that problem of poly limits, i see in the future i wont be able to load those objects into Zbrush for high rez texturing, so i think i will have to use PS more but again adapting is big thing in this industry.

Again Z 2.5 is said to have higher poly limits and even larger textures so there are still alot of things to consider, but i see myself using mudbox just as much especially because i can work with multiple objects. At the moment having this whole pipeline just for one obj is a little much, on a personal level.

Steve Green
06-12-2006, 01:35 PM
Hi,

it will be interesting if there's options for instancing of objects, allow layers of displacement on top of this.

For example you had a character with multiple pouches, or similar bits of armour hanging from a jacket, it would be great if they could be instanced at a base level, and then detail added individually.

Cheers

Steve

yolao
06-12-2006, 01:40 PM
Well, with all due respects, you're oponion in this case is waaaay off the mark.

well, i have not actually use silo 2 and not mudbox, so i can not make a fair comparison, and i have not seen the full list of features of mudbox (MUDBOX LOOKS FANTASTIC), but so far there are things that mudbox will have that silo 2 will also have...and again i have not use silo 2 yet so i can not say if it`s a zbrush-like app, but there are things that silo 2 will have that zbrush 2 and maybe even zbrush 2.5 will not have.

My point is that the main difference seems to be the millions of polys that mudbox and zbrush for that matter can handle, silo 2 will be able to handle very easily more than 1 million polys wich is very good.

wich other major differences will be apart from the millions of poly handle and the micro details like pores?...i`m asking because as i said i have not seen the full list of features of mudbox

oh yes...as far as i know silo 2 will not have layers for displacement painting...but zbrush does not have them either..

as a final note i must say that mudbox looks fantastic in every way, the real time lighting and the materials on the models looks wonderful..Silo 2 looks great, the interactivity between poly modeling and displacement is great, and it has a very good hotkey workflow, and finally the one that is already here...zbrush...wich i love...

i wish the best to those 3 apps

Phrenzy84
06-12-2006, 02:10 PM
dito..

Silo 2.0 granted will have some nice... convenient is probably a better word displacement tools, but silo is a core modelling app. They have gone to great lengths... and rightly so... to improve and streamline the core geometry creation process.

Steve had a cool idea.

Zbrush has got a sort of layering system for displacement, and you can paint the blend.
http://sebleg.free.fr/2005/pics/womix1.jpg
http://sebleg.free.fr/2005/pics/womix2.jpg
Images from Sebastien Legrain

Nice workflow, i expect mudbox will be a little more less restrictive though.

Coliba
06-12-2006, 02:49 PM
IF looks great! Looks like you can just get started without even reading the manual....GREAT idea with Photoshop style layers.

About polygon selection, please consider if you haven't already added, loop selection, grow/shrink selection.

ekah
06-12-2006, 02:58 PM
IF looks great! Looks like you can just get started without even reading the manual....

That was my thought exactly. I love the simplicity of the UI. Zero clutter. :)

yolao
06-12-2006, 03:00 PM
i said it once and i say it again...the real time lighting in the scene and the materials on the models is absolutely beautiful...

Please Dave would you consider show us an small video showing mudbox in action?

mech7
06-12-2006, 03:00 PM
I wonder when programs like Maya and XSI are able to animate 5 million poly models without the use of normal / displacement maps..

mdee
06-12-2006, 04:07 PM
I wonder when programs like Maya and XSI are able to animate 5 million poly models without the use of normal / displacement maps..

XSI can do a lot of polys already. 2 milions is not a big problem.

Anyway, great interface, it looks like real workhorse! Hopefully price is affordable.

Steve Green
06-12-2006, 04:14 PM
Graphics performance is a funny thing, there doesn't seem to be one that is the best in all areas.

when using Max in Direct3D, it can cache the mesh and rotating the view can be pretty good up in the millions of polys area, but the wireframe performance is poor, where Maxtreme is better. Particles, on the other hand tend to work better in Software Z-buffer.

Zbrush (from what I recall) doesn't use any 3D acceleration, so it will be interesting to see what approach Skymatter have taken with Mudbox.

Cheers

Steve

X..
06-12-2006, 04:41 PM
Very exciting times indeed.
Lookin forward to trying out Mudbox!!

elvis75k
06-12-2006, 04:47 PM
Graphics performance is a funny thing, there doesn't seem to be one that is the best in all areas...

Steve

Here are some stuff about poly management.. Great stuff (not Mudbox -related)

http://www.crs4.it/vic/cgi-bin/bib-page.cgi?id='Gobbetti:2005:FV'

http://www.crs4.it/vic/cgi-bin/multimedia-page.cgi?id='128' ) some videos..

quote from the link: "Data is presented at 1px resolution on a 640x480 display controlled by PC with a NVIDIA GeForce 6800GT graphics board."

I think MudBox core is based on this kind of research, who knows?! Harmonics, voxels.. Whatever i'll be, we want it!!


edited: I hope it's safe to post some kind of data in there..

-e

X..
06-12-2006, 05:13 PM
Some questions for the mudbox team..

-Does mudbox have ability to paint color maps?

-Is it possible to draw new topology on top of dense pointcloud data. eg scans? (cyslice, paraform workflows)

-Are there any tools for UV mapping, unwrapping, pelting?

-any tools for broad mesh deformation eg lattice, bend, twist, stretch..etc?

-ant tools for morphing and generating animated displacement maps?

-can mudbox sculpt across multiple meshes?

-a 3d clone tool would be wonderfull.

-any tools for applying shaders to models?

-Any plugins, scripting or ways for open source development?

-How wel does it multithread. eg 4 core system

-64bit ready?

-what about mac or linux versions?

-any projection tools? eg projection master workflow.

-what's the price of Mudbox?

Fifth_miracle
06-12-2006, 08:21 PM
mech7 wrote:

I wonder when programs like Maya and XSI are able to animate 5 million poly models without the use of normal / displacement maps..


As soon as we get a working 64 bit OS, out of Microsoft, etc. it'll be possible. But resolution isn't the issue, sure you be able to import/export your 5 million poly mesh. But if you want to animate it you'll now have to weight all 5 million verts, there are also render time issues. If you can get the detail you need out of a displaced 5,000 polygon mesh; why would you ever want to deal with a multi-million poly mesh?

wurp
06-12-2006, 08:25 PM
how would you skin 5 mil polys, how would you unwrap them?

No, what we need is the ability to load a hierarchical subd mesh directly exported from mudbox/zbrush and then load that in your animation package, then youd do all the skinning at subD level 0 and then when you render it would render with all the detail, that way you will always get perfect quality and you dont have to worry about displacement/normal maps at all...

I wonder when programs like Maya and XSI are able to animate 5 million poly models without the use of normal / displacement maps..

rebo
06-12-2006, 08:33 PM
"X." has some very good questions, in particular I am interested wether mudbox has any topology remeshing tools , morph/blendshape tools, and wether it has any paint / projection paint tools.

Regarding painting, what zbrush lacks is proper PSD layers if mudbox could implement that, well that would be amazing.

squidinc
06-12-2006, 08:58 PM
really looks like I could start using that without reading anything, looking forward to seeing this in motion

(hope the price will be reasonable :D)

CIM
06-12-2006, 09:58 PM
While Mudbox looks interesting, what will it offer that ZBrush already doesn't? Is this just another over-hyped toy (e.g., Hexagon 2) with a nice interface?

Sonk
06-12-2006, 11:17 PM
"X." has some very good questions, in particular I am interested wether mudbox has any topology remeshing tools , morph/blendshape tools, and wether it has any paint / projection paint tools.

Regarding painting, what zbrush lacks is proper PSD layers if mudbox could implement that, well that would be amazing.


spoiler removed by me



I kind have my doubt about painting of any kind in Mudbox, its in beta, if they havent added it from the beginning what the chance it'll be added later on? It would be a very atypical development process... But if they want to prove me wrong, i'd be more then happy :D

edit:spelling errors.

emeyers
06-12-2006, 11:38 PM
remove spoiler



I kind have my doubt about painting of any kind in Mudbox, its in beta, if they havent added it from the beginning what the chance it'll be added later on? It would be a very atypical development process... But if they want to prove me wrong, i'd be more than then happy :D

I only hope the projection painting without dropping like Zbrush can be as fast and responsive as projection master. Also, if they already have an entire brush system for modelling, it seems adding the ability to paint color wouldn't be too much trouble. Then again I'm not a programmer :)

shingo
06-13-2006, 12:37 AM
Clever design will allow for future feature implementations. What is to say that this has nto been considered by the fine folks developing Mudbox?

Texture painting is a natural extension from brush based sculpting.

spoiler removed by me

I kind have my doubt about painting of any kind in Mudbox, its in beta, if they havent added it from the beginning what the chance it'll be added later on? It would be a very atypical development process... But if they want to prove me wrong, i'd be more then happy :D

edit:spelling errors.

damesqlo
06-13-2006, 07:59 PM
No more news? :(

vlad74
06-13-2006, 08:25 PM
It would be nice if they had posted some movies from the workshop.

cyartist
06-13-2006, 11:35 PM
Anybody got to the workshop.

inverse catheter
06-14-2006, 03:55 AM
http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6022&page=9

inverse catheter
06-14-2006, 03:57 AM
"100 million poly 's". he did

vlad74
06-14-2006, 09:14 AM
100 million polygons??!???!??!???!??!??

Is that serious? Dont think so.

BazC
06-14-2006, 09:30 AM
100 million polygons??!???!??!???!??!??

Is that serious? Dont think so.

Nope! Seems like it was a misunderstanding or a slip of the tongue or something! Brook (a beta tester) says it won't go anywhere near that poly count here! (http://www.silo3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6022&page=9)

JacquesD
06-14-2006, 10:21 AM
That'd be cool to see it in action... We'll probably have to wait for Siggraph though.

Jacques.

mech7
06-14-2006, 11:36 AM
Even if it could do 100 million poly.. you can't use it for anything as there is no other app able to render it, thoug it would be very cool :drool:

schuubars
06-14-2006, 03:08 PM
Sure XSI can(5), but the better question would be, how long MuBo takes to render the disp. and/or a normal map. *g*

Even if it could do 100 million poly.. you can't use it for anything as there is no other app able to render it, thoug it would be very cool :drool:

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