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RobertoOrtiz
06-07-2006, 02:49 PM
Quote:
"Japanese game software and console maker Nintendo Co. (7974.OS) said on Wednesday it is unlikely to lose much money on the launch of its new "Wii" video game console, in sharp contrast to rival Sony Corp. (6758.T), which expects a hefty loss on the debut of its PlayStation 3.

Game machines manufacturers often lose money on initial console sales, but recoup those losses over the life of the product through software sales. Sony expects to post a 100 billion yen ($884 million) operating loss at its game division in the current fiscal year due to costs related to the PS3 launch.

"We can't promise we won't have even a one-yen loss, but we are not expecting an enormous loss," Nintendo President Satoru Iwata told a news conference. "It is a strange notion that a game console always leads to mounting losses in the beginning.""

>>LINK<< (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060607/tc_nm/japan_nintendo_dc;_ylt=AgGQNOIVSqNSMN26_645Ea.s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg)

-R

AdamHerbert
06-07-2006, 03:33 PM
"It is a strange notion that a game console always leads to mounting losses in the beginning."



My thoughts exactly.

Well, I'm looking forward to the Wii, and I hope Nintendo does well with it.

Gentle Fury
06-07-2006, 03:55 PM
which leads me to believe this will be a highly over-priced console or a highly under produced........the reason PS3 predicts such a loss is because they can't charge $1000 for a console system.....its not gonna happen! So they make a killer pc rivalling console and put a starting price tag of about $499 (costing more like 7-800 to manufacture), and make their money back in game sales which are highly over priced sometimes starting as high as $69.99...it makes sense and its a system that has been used since the Genesis hit the shelves. (nes was damn enpensive when it came out and it wasnt that high tech!).

This is the exact reason M$ was getting so pissed when people were installing linux on their xbox consoles to make a server or render box......its a $500 desktop computer that you can buy for $200, if you take away its gaming ability you take away their ability to re-coup their lose!

Not sure how nintendo will get away with this unless they are really cheaping out on parts....because currently to build a next gen console it costs a great deal of money.....just look at the fact that it would cost about $2000 to build a PC with the same power as the XBox 360 paying retail for parts.....so even at cost it would be close to $1000.....IMHO the fact that Sony is willing to take that billion dollar hit at startup means they are pretty confident they have a killer product and will more than likely outlast all others (as all other incarnations of PSX have shown in the past!)

SHEPEIRO
06-07-2006, 04:15 PM
IMHO i think its great, it means that games will be cheaper, and as there will be less licencing costs, more start up dev houses will be able to afford to make more interesting products.

also cheaper games means dev houses will be taking less risks, as more people will be prepared to spend 20 quid on something unusual, therefore more stable industry andmore unique and interesting IPs, something that the industry needs.

all looks rosy to me, when i buy a console i dont think am i going to get loads of calculations per secs for my money, i think how much fun am i going to have.

Gentle Fury
06-07-2006, 04:27 PM
would be nice if thats how it worked......but there are standard game prices....and do you honestly think nintendo will stray from the industry standards? Nope.....whether they take a loss on the consoles or not, you should still expect your games to cost anywhere from 50 to 70 bucks......as always!! has always been this way will always be.....I remember paying $50 for NES games, then $50 for Genesis and SNES games.......PSX games?? $50. N64=$50.....PS2, Xbox, Game Cube, Xbox 360.....average starting price for a game.......$50 This is industry norm....the only system that broke this code was Neo Geo...and you see how well they faired! They aren't saying....we will take no loss and pass the savings to you....they are saying we will take no loss, and use that initial gain to attempt to keep Nintendo alive through another experimental console attempt!

RobertoOrtiz
06-07-2006, 04:32 PM
To be fair to Nitendo, their consoles/handhelds are built like tanks.

What they do is the they buy, current state of the art parts, and implment them in creative ways.

The problem with the PS3 is that mostoof the teck on it is bleeding edge (cas in point the cell processor to the blue ray drive).


And this is costing them dearly.

-R

charleyc
06-07-2006, 04:51 PM
...Not sure how nintendo will get away with this unless they are really cheaping out on parts....because currently to build a next gen console it costs a great deal of money.....just look at the fact that it would cost about $2000 to build a PC with the same power as the XBox 360 paying retail for parts.....so even at cost it would be close to $1000.....IMHO the fact that Sony is willing to take that billion dollar hit at startup means they are pretty confident they have a killer product and will more than likely outlast all others (as all other incarnations of PSX have shown in the past!)

There are a lot more factors to this than simply cost of hardware. I think you area vastly over estimating part costs with $1,000 per unit. You are basing your numbers off your retail pricing of componants. Priced based on percieved public demand, not on actual manufaturing, that have been handled by at least one other source prior to getting to you. The raw componant costs for the various chip manufacturers themselves certainly does not equal $2,000. Also, there are many levels of initial development costs, there are assembly cost, advertising costs, packaging, shipping.....And their estimations for loss are based on a predicted number or initial sales (or more relevant, a specified number of units produced). In my opinion, Sony could easily be shooting themselves in the foot with their stance and opinion of the PS3. Even they have admitted that one of their biggest selling points is the blue ray tech. It better be an outstanding machine and even then, if it doesn't take off (due to its higher price) it could really hurt Sony's standing.

Of all three console venders, it would make sense that the one with the most experience could produce a lower end console for a lower price and not incure the same initial development costs of the others.

SHEPEIRO
06-07-2006, 04:56 PM
nintendo DS cartridges are cheaper than PSP games, i could easily see them making their Wii games cheaper and if not the savings will be passed on to dev houses, due to less licensing costs.

Auctane
06-07-2006, 05:06 PM
To be fair to Nitendo, their consoles/handhelds are built like tanks.
That is very true. All my Nintendo systems still work. I am on my 2nd Xbox and it is starting to grenade too. If they are loosing $ on the systems, they better make sure people dont have to buy a 2nd one...

pixelmonk
06-07-2006, 05:21 PM
This is the exact reason M$ was getting so pissed when people were installing linux on their xbox consoles to make a server or render box......its a $500 desktop computer that you can buy for $200, if you take away its gaming ability you take away their ability to re-coup their lose!



Why is Microsoft pissed about people installing Linux on an Xbox when the person had to buy the Xbox in the first place. Microsoft doesn't build desktop computers. Microsoft charges under $200 for a license of XP. If that person wasn't going to install Linux on an Xbox, and they don't do gaming, they wouldn't buy the Xbox, so Microsoft would be out the $200 sale anyways. So Microsoft could care less about that other than the fact that the EULA for the Xbox prohibits mods, but even Apple has that, and people still run OSX x86 on a PC or install Linux on a Mac.

NRG-Alpha
06-07-2006, 05:24 PM
IMHO i think its great, it means that games will be cheaper, and as there will be less licencing costs, more start up dev houses will be able to afford to make more interesting products.

Hold on there SHEP. Don't forget that developers have to get Dev kits, which is a very different pricepoint than the actualy production/consumer product. Dev kits alone can cost 10's of thousands of dollars per unit (depending on which one we are talking about). Companies cannot develop using the production units.

As far as cost of development going down, the trend these days is the inverse. Teams are getting larger, and thanks (or no thanks, depending on how you look at it) to evolving technology (like normal mapping, lighting, etc...) tasks are becoming more and more specific and require greater amounts of people to pull these off.. Now ofcourse, this all depends on the game and what it's design and visual artistic direction takes.. But as an overall trend, many developers are finding it harder and harder to compete with the big boys like Ubisoft (where I am situated) and EA as some examples. This is not to say that smaller guys cannot compete. But as consumers' expectations of next gen graphics grows, companies now have to staff larger teams to get all of this stuff done (as a rule.. there are of course exceptions).

But as far as Wii being as cheap as it is.. I think thats great for us consumers! I'm looking forward to what it will be like to play one of these little bad boys.

Just my 2 cents

Cheers,

NRG

psyop63b
06-07-2006, 05:33 PM
you should still expect your games to cost anywhere from 50 to 70 bucks......as always!! has always been this way will always be.....I remember paying $50 for NES games, then $50 for Genesis and SNES games.......PSX games?? $50. N64=$50.....PS2, Xbox, Game Cube, Xbox 360.....average starting price for a game.......$50

There were many N64 titles that went for $70-75.

Looking at the upcoming release list at my local EB Games, most 360 and PS3 titles will be priced $60-70.

The highest price I've seen announced for a Wii game is Twilight Princess for $60. Most of the other Wii titles have been marked $50. IF the numbers I've been seeing are accurate, Nintendo will have a serious price advantage over the competition from both the hardware and software sides.

.

Wickster
06-07-2006, 05:37 PM
If any of you watched the XPLAY special at G4TV awhile back when they tested the current generation system's ability to withstand abuse the Nintendo GameCube was the only one left standing. After having a bowling ball dropped on the systems, a sledge hammer test and a 2 story drop test...the results were the PS2 was the first to break, the XBOX second and the GameCube remained operational after all the test. So I don't question Nintendo's manufacturing ways.

AdamHerbert
06-07-2006, 06:24 PM
which leads me to believe this will be a highly over-priced console or a highly under produced........the reason PS3 predicts such a loss is because they can't charge $1000 for a console system



Actually, look at the Wii's stats compared to the PS3's stats. The PS3 is nearly twice as powerful, plus they are putting in their blu-ray readers. That's why Sony is taking such a big hit, as Robert said they are on the bleeding edge of technology, where Nintendo is making a less powerful but different machine. Nintendo's betting on their control scheme where Microsoft and Sony are betting on their technology. That's why Nintendo doesn't expect huge losses and Sony does.

Ninjas
06-07-2006, 06:46 PM
This is what I think is going on:

Sony is taking such a "big hit" mosty because of creative (although legal) accounting practices. They are allowed this because they are a giant mega corp that produces it's hardware in-house and has different accounting for each division.

Bonedaddy
06-07-2006, 06:46 PM
Actually, look at the Wii's stats compared to the PS3's stats. The PS3 is nearly twice as powerful, plus they are putting in their blu-ray readers. That's why Sony is taking such a big hit, as Robert said they are on the bleeding edge of technology, where Nintendo is making a less powerful but different machine. Nintendo's betting on their control scheme where Microsoft and Sony are betting on their technology. That's why Nintendo doesn't expect huge losses and Sony does.

Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

jbo
06-07-2006, 06:48 PM
Actually, look at the Wii's stats compared to the PS3's stats. The PS3 is nearly twice as powerful, plus they are putting in their blu-ray readers. That's why Sony is taking such a big hit, as Robert said they are on the bleeding edge of technology, where Nintendo is making a less powerful but different machine. Nintendo's betting on their control scheme where Microsoft and Sony are betting on their technology. That's why Nintendo doesn't expect huge losses and Sony does.

what you say is true, but it's interesting that nintendo was able to do the same thing(not take a loss) with the gamecube despite it being technically superior to the PS2.

RobertoOrtiz
06-07-2006, 06:54 PM
Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

OUCH, that sounds like a sledge hammer solution.

Good God.

-R

AdamHerbert
06-07-2006, 06:59 PM
Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

Wow, hadn't heard that one. Sounds like a rather rash decision. I think Microsoft's solution to make certain games available to d/l is better than cramming in an entire system.

charleyc
06-07-2006, 07:04 PM
Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

AFAIK all three will support their previous generation games. Wii as far back as NES, that is like cramming a NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube into a Wii (through the magic of the internet).

cookepuss
06-07-2006, 07:34 PM
OUCH, that sounds like a sledge hammer solution.

Good God.

-R

Not really. This has been Nintendo's policy with the Gameboy/DS line for years now. They've always packed in the newest processor and some variation of the older Z28. I wouldn't think that Sony's inclusion of PS2-level tech for backward compatibility would prove to be much of problem.

Remember, die sizes are shrinking, which will both reduce costs and heat. That was the idea behind the smaller slimline PS2 unit. In theory, they could shrink the core elements of the PS2 down to a chip or two with little impact to the housing of the PS3 elements. Take a look at the inside of a Gamecube. Everything is so consolidated it's not funny.

As far as price goes, it's worth not having to deal with the backward compatibility BS that XB360 users currently have to deal with.


EDIT>>> As an example of what I'm taling about. Take a look at the Gamecube mobo VS the XBox mobo. Apply that "PS2 on a chip (or 2)" principle to the PS3. Should work.

Gamecube
http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/gamecube_motherboard_sm.jpg

XBox1
http://www.xboxhackz.com/images/xbox_17.jpg

Consoles don't have to look complex on the inside for them to actually get the job done.

LiquidMetal
06-07-2006, 07:46 PM
Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

Apparently they did that witht he PS2 also.As in stuffing a PS1 inside the PS2 case.

Womball
06-07-2006, 07:54 PM
Is it me, or does anyone else also find the size difference hilarious?

JohnD
06-07-2006, 07:55 PM
To be fair to Nitendo, their consoles/handhelds are built like tanks.

What they do is the they buy, current state of the art parts, and implment them in creative ways.

The problem with the PS3 is that mostoof the teck on it is bleeding edge (cas in point the cell processor to the blue ray drive).


And this is costing them dearly.

-R

The other day I went over to my folk's place and my nephew was there. We went down into the basement where I still have my Nintendo Famicon (1985) along with the 40+ games. I haven't turned the thing on for almost 15 years so I wasn't expecting anything. To my surprise...it still worked...and I still had a Zelda game saved from like 1989 or something. Nintendo definitely makes rock solid products. Now I'm no fanboy...I've had the Famicon, the Genesis, PS1, and now Xbox so I'm all over the place. But I seriously see the Wii being a big hit...while unfortunately I see the PS3 not doing all that well. Parents aren't going to dish out that kind of money for a game system. I think Sony is banking too much on their reputation, and that their fans will follow them no matter what the price. Kinda like when Howard Stern went to satellite radio and lost like over half if his listeners, and he was all up in arms, calling out his fans for not following him. I do hope the PS3 is a hit...but I see Nintendo ending up the big winner this time around.

DevilHacker
06-07-2006, 08:02 PM
To be fair to Nitendo, their consoles/handhelds are built like tanks.

-RTrue... Very True. My GameCube is built like an brick, and has not broke yet.

What they do is the they buy, current state of the art parts, and implment them in creative ways.

-RThat could be disputed. Nintendo gets old (read: not state of the art, and is considered current gen) hardware, and then gives the system an Next-Gen control system...

DevilHacker
06-07-2006, 08:06 PM
Is it me, or does anyone else also find the size difference hilarious?
Its is not that big actually…

The only difference is:
1) the photos are at an slant. The Nintendo Mobo is actually a little bigger than it appears.
2) The Xbox also has an PSU inside the case… which takes up a whole side…

ParamountCell
06-07-2006, 08:27 PM
dropped my ds on concrete many times....

It was Nintendo's plan from the begining not to create an expensive console. Word is really spreading about the wii, I cant see it becoming the market leader though, things are begining to look very very pretty for nintendo at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QipDCM0Vczo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgonintendo%2Ecom%2F

By the way this is the video Wickster mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmMoYy1MJy0&search=console%20test

Cronholio
06-07-2006, 08:34 PM
Not to mention that, if the rumors are true, the PS3 will be doing backwards compatibility with a hardware solution -- that is to say, they're cramming a PS2 in with all the PS3 stuff as well.

You guys seem to be a little confused on this. What they did with the PS2 was basicly shrink the PSOne down to a single chip and use it as a controller for PS2 games. They didn't physically stuff an entire PSOne in there. If they were to go the same hardware route on the PS3 they would likely try to do the same thing here, implement the PS2 as a single chip, but it wouldn't make sense to try to go with a hardware solution. What I have read is that they are creating an emulator, which makes much more sense. The PS3 architecture really is an extension of the PS2, so creating an emulator would be the path of least resistance and with the power they have available they should easily be able to get PS2 games running at full speed with some nice additional hardware effects.

RobertoOrtiz
06-07-2006, 09:06 PM
By the way this is the video Wickster mentioned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmMoYy1MJy0&search=console%20test

I saw that videoand I winced when Morgan dropped the Xbox and the Cube to the floor.

Man, that little cube is REALLY solid.

-R

Kaostick
06-07-2006, 09:15 PM
AFAIK all three will support their previous generation games. Wii as far back as NES, that is like cramming a NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube into a Wii (through the magic of the internet).

You forgot to mention the Genesis, and the TG16.. or did I miss an announcement saying those will no longer be there?

NanoGator
06-07-2006, 09:42 PM
OUCH, that sounds like a sledge hammer solution.

Good God.

-R

I wish I could buy one WITHOUT the PS2 and shave $100 off the price.

psyop63b
06-08-2006, 04:23 AM
Wish I could say that my experience with GC controllers showed them to be just as durable... but alas, drop one on a hard surface and you'll be lucky if ANY buttons work afterward.

.

Apoclypse
06-08-2006, 04:50 AM
Wow, that video kicked ass. I'm not a nintendo fanboy or anything (I like many defected, psone came out), nintendo has always made the most durable hardware. Its funny that I've only come to appreciate nintendo as an older gamer. I love playing old snes games and n64 games. Its incredible how entertaining and fun playing something like yoshi's island is, even more incredible is how good some of these games look even in their 16 bit era. I think I will definately buy the Wii. I think gamers have gotten tired of the same, over glamorized crap with the same stuff thrown out (EA take note). Gamers remember snes games though (and genesis games too, though they don't seem to be as popular now as they were when they first came out) and they remember having fun.

Bonedaddy
06-08-2006, 06:25 AM
Thanks to everyone on the corrected info re: PS2-in-PS3 box. I would think that it'd be kind of difficult to share resources, as the PS3 seems like a drastically different architecture, what with the cell processor and all, rather than an evolution of the PS2 hardware. But I know very little about the hardware side of things.

And here I'd thought most of the backwards emu was through software as opposed to hardware... :)

albedo4800hp
06-08-2006, 10:51 AM
AFAIK all three will support their previous generation games. Wii as far back as NES, that is like cramming a NES, SNES, N64 and Gamecube into a Wii (through the magic of the internet).

Yeah not quite. The processing power you need for emulating a NES, SNES fully is about a Pentium-100 or 200 or even a 200Mhz-ARM9 can do it so that does not really count. N64 is quite easy to emulate as well. So the only real more troublesome backwards compatibility is Gamecube

pixelmonk
06-08-2006, 12:10 PM
Yeah not quite. The processing power you need for emulating a NES, SNES fully is about a Pentium-100 or 200 or even a 200Mhz-ARM9 can do it so that does not really count. N64 is quite easy to emulate as well. So the only real more troublesome backwards compatibility is Gamecube

gotta love emus like Nester and Nesticle.

Ghostscape
06-08-2006, 01:24 PM
Nintendo has always minimized their losses on hardware/not taken a loss on hardware, which is why they're still able to contend in the console market despite getting bumped back to third place (the fact that they have a stranglehold on the handheld market helps too :D) Meanwhile, Microsoft has lost 2 billion on the Xbox, but gained marketshare that they hope to leverage into an eventual profit.

Why is Microsoft pissed about people installing Linux on an Xbox when the person had to buy the Xbox in the first place. Because it costs them more money to produce than they make up in the sale, and they rely on licensing costs from game sales to make up for that. Their original projections were something along the line of 11 games sold would make them break even (with the systems sold at launch), and after that, they start making profit. And they figured over the 5 year life cycle that most gamers would buy more than 2 games a year, and thus, they'd make a profit eventually. It didn't happen.

which leads me to believe this will be a highly over-priced console or a highly under produced.

Not sure how nintendo will get away with this unless they are really cheaping out on parts....because currently to build a next gen console it costs a great deal of money.....just look at the fact that it would cost about $2000 to build a PC with the same power as the XBox 360 paying retail for parts.....so even at cost it would be close to $1000.....IMHO the fact that Sony is willing to take that billion dollar hit at startup means they are pretty confident they have a killer product and will more than likely outlast all others (as all other incarnations of PSX have shown in the past!)

They have said repeatedly it is a bit more powerful than a gamecube but is not competing with the 360 or PS3 on polycount, etc. They have not announced a price yet but most analysts put it between $200 and $250. Sony is willing to take such a loss because nobody would buy a system for $1000.

[QUOTE=Gentle Furybut there are standard game prices....and do you honestly think nintendo will stray from the industry standards? Nope.....whether they take a loss on the consoles or not, you should still expect your games to cost anywhere from 50 to 70 bucks......as always!! I remember paying $50 for NES games, then $50 for Genesis and SNES games.......PSX games?? $50. N64=$50.....PS2, Xbox, Game Cube, Xbox 360.....average starting price for a game.......$50 This is industry norm.[/QUOTE]

360 games are MSRPing for $60. Many high profile PC games have been priced at $60 (HL2, Warcraft 3, etc). SNES games frequently went for $60 or $70, particularily squaresoft RPGs. Meanwhile we have a burgeoning budget market with plenty of titles starting at $20. The last couple of scrolling shooters I bought for the PS2 (Gradius 5 and R-Type Final) both started at $40.

Nevermind the fact that Nintendo is selling games through their "virtual console", a Steam/Xbox Arcade style system for varying prices (unannounced).

So $50 is not some magic number and you might want to consider ramping down the fanboy a bit.

The news that Nintendo doesn't expect heavy losses isn't really that unexpected, seeing as how thats SOP for them, and they've stated numerous times that they are not making machines as powerful as the 360/PS3.

I hope to someday have a livingroom where I can play Smash Brothers Brawl, Chromehounds, and MGS4 all on the same HDTV. Unfortunately I don't have the cash for any of those yet :D

sheppyboy2000
06-08-2006, 02:41 PM
For someone to tell me a console barely more powerful than the Xbox to launch at $250 with little to no expected loss is like telling someone, "Well, tomorrow, the sun is expected to rise over the east and set in the west." This is a common sense thing. Now, if Nintendo manages to make a loss on a console that features a virtual console yet no hard drive solution, no HD output, no advanced processing, and a number of it's launch titles being merely shifted from Gamecube projects, I'd say it's time for Iwata to step down. Because they would HAVE to be spending that money somewhere and that's a concern for embezzlement. As for making the Wii much more open for small time developers, well, that's a simple matter of opinion. Yes, the costs of development would be lower (when you're console is 1/4 the power of it's competitors, it's like saying Gameboy is cheaper to develop for than PS2) but Nintendo is annoyingly difficult to obtain dev kits from. I'm a low level dev studio myself (a hobbyist more than anything with no completed projects due to no ability to acquire kits) and despite petitioning to obtain both a GBA and a DS dev kit (the two cheapest on the market), Nintendo has sooo many requirements, it's not funny. I have to obtain a publisher for a game I can't get up on running due to lack of dev kit. I have to have been either an established studio with years of PC dev experience or be formed by members of the game industry with a number of years of experience. And this is just the starting point.

The discouraging aspect to me, however, remains the fact that no studios have gone beyond the "gimmick" phase of DS to begin the innovation and you need fresh blood to do that. Nintendo, however, remains so damn paranoid of emulation and piracy that the dev kits are too far out of reach of independant studios despite being the cheapest on the market. And I don't expect this policy to change with Wii. After two years of attempts to acquire a dev kit, I am now forced to try and acquire $3000 more for a PSP dev kit which, as I understand it, is much easier to obtain.

As far as durability of Nintendo products goes versus Sony.... well, let's put it this way. I have two PSXs (japanese and domestic), two PSOnes (likewise, notice a pattern here), two PS2s, two PSTwos, and two PSPs (one black, one white) and aside from a botched mod chip install on a SCPH-5501, all work perfectly. And they do go through abuse as Guitar Hero controller yanks pull them from shelves and other such occurances (Main reason why I love my 360, because, let's face it... it can't be for the games). So all in all, I cannot complain about Sony performance.

Nintendo, on the other hand... I have an old NES that refuses to read over half my games (if I'm lucky) and a top-loader which will usually read the other half. Meanwhile, I own a bootleg NES that works perfectly and I keep the Nintendo NES console around so my Yobo can laugh at them. My Gamecube has disc read errors so I recently replaced it with another one so not issues there anymore. However, my DS experience has been horrid. I got those Mariokart versions. Yes, multiple. First one wouldn't read the DS card half the time. The second one played fine for roughly two hours when, on Sonic DS, the screen flashed and I suddenly got 4 horizontal lines of Dead Pixels. The next one, due to return, couldn't play a DS game if a cartridge was in the GBA slot, rendering the rumble cart, useless. Fed up (and annoyed with the cramping of the hands on most games), I decided to sell it on a japanese auction site proclaiming the issue and managed to turn a profit due to DS shortages and Mario Kart coloring not being released in Japan. Of all things I missed about the DS, the games are tops. Main reason why I kept my games while eagerly awaiting June 11th.

But personally? These things happen with consoles. This is the reason why I buy extended warranties. They have saved my ass with the 360 (which hasn't been booted up since the disappointing E3 exclusives last month) and if the DS would have stayed with me longer than a month, I'm sure it would have helped there too.

My ONLY concern for the future is how wide that sensor bar can get because I want to know if Wii will work with my projector or even if my future TV purchases are too big.

sheppyboy2000
06-09-2006, 02:16 PM
And my amazing ability to kill any topic with a post continues here...

Gentle Fury
06-09-2006, 02:48 PM
For all of you Nintendo lovers let me remind you (how quickly we forget the negatives of the past) blowing on and popping up and down NES carts if you even wanted to play a game....and how many times did you really wanna get back to a saved game and just gave up cuz the thing wouldnt even start.....I remember those days.....thats why as soon as PC emulation came around i retired the console.....never had an emulated cart fail on me.

While yes it is entirely true that Nintendo has made pretty sturdy systems since they came out of the stone age and ditched the Cart system (so that would be gamecube only) they still havent had an original title in about 20 years.......they made about 5 titles and remade it over and over and over and over and over again.....HOW MANY MARIO GAMES CAN YOU MAKE??? or Metroid, or Yoshi (a spin off of freakin mario) or megaman, castlevania, donkey kong.....the over played and way too overdone Zelda series is the only thing they've done in a while that at least had a story.......COME UP WITH SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR GODS SAKE!!

Wow, Wii is motion control.....woohoo....DS has a touch screen.....ooooo, awesome gimmick that wears very thin after about 20 mins of gameplay.....nintendo has become the Flash Arcade of consoles.....kinda reminds me of high end graphics versions of those little tiger games we had as kids.....no substance, no story, just a way to kill some time while waiting for the bus.

Instead of coming up with a new and creative time waster, why not come up with something really inovative....where you are actually immersed in a story....an original story....with characters that arent as played out and cliche as freakin Ronald McDonald...

But it sells more units and makes more profit, and really thats all its about is selling a product, no matter how disapointing.

JohnD
06-09-2006, 03:06 PM
Can't say that I remember having to pop my NES's cartridges in and out. Just fired it up the other day for my nephew and it worked like a charm. I do remember having to turn my Playstation upside down after the first 6 months of owning it for it to work anymore.

SHEPEIRO
06-09-2006, 03:18 PM
wow its amazing how all these discusions turn into fanboy beating rages against other fanboys.
:scream:

anyway im glad that nintendo ahave got a less boom/bust outlook on things and im glad MS and sony throw money and produce stuff that nintendo would never produce, its all good in the end, we all play games, we all have different tastes, and these tastes are cattered for.

going around saying that the food someone is eating/liking is crap is just stoopid. taste is opinion, it gets slightly boring hearing about it all the time.

carts had theyre good and bad days, sometimes i wish that games were still on them while i go and make a cup of tea while sommit loads, and there wer other cool aspects to the instant loading, cool old musical scores that charged dynamically for instance. but they were also a pain, and didnt last that long, although probably about as long as cds/dvds considering how much abuse they got.

JohnD
06-09-2006, 03:20 PM
What's a fanboy?

RobertoOrtiz
06-09-2006, 03:26 PM
fanboys kill threads like this one.

People if you are going to make an argument,
based it on facts and simple logic, OR I WILL CLOSE the thread.

-R

sheppyboy2000
06-09-2006, 04:01 PM
Can't say that I remember having to pop my NES's cartridges in and out. Just fired it up the other day for my nephew and it worked like a charm.

You are definately among the lucky ones. Although, earlier you mentioned it was a Famicom so perhaps that's it. For the US, Hiroshi Yamauchi had to make a decision on the redesign of the NES for US audiences. The choice came down to the difference between a $1.32 copper connector for the game slot or the much more reliable $3.78 gold connector. Hiroshi, being the bastard that he is, opted for the copper connector. Which wouldn't be an issue except... for the enclosed design coupled with the extra stress applied by the "loader spring" system that effected the connections in two distinctly seperate ways. The dust and crap trapped in the console bay (uncleanable I might add, without voiding ones warranty) would be forced into the connectors and degrade the connectors themselves. The other issue is the constant pushing down of the cartridge to load also put additional stress on the cheaper connector. Of course, should your console come down with a case of the infamous "blinkies," Nintendo was all too happy to clean and replace that connector for the low, low price of $120. Now, this wasn't issue enough but...

Nintendo then, due to market dominance, began shipping a larger and larger amount of defective consoles to stores and unlike trends at the time, refused to take the defective returns as credit towards future purchases. Store then had one tough decision, either such up an occasional $300 loss or risk losing the ability to sell NES games. This same tactic, incidently, was also how Nintendo managed to keep Sega and NEC out of a vast majority of retailers nation wide. The situation with Nintendo eventually became SOOO dire, that the US government had to step in, fining on the behalf of consumers, an unconfirmed amount between $5-$10 million (depending upon source). Nintendo, however, was allowed to stipulate how much info was needed to receive their shares of the settlement and, through deceptive practices, managed to pay less than $780,000 of the fine.

However, this settlement actually went a long way to showing companies they COULD stand up against Nintendo and more companies began selling Sega and NEC products.

jbo
06-09-2006, 04:13 PM
Nintendo then, due to market dominance, began shipping a larger and larger amount of defective consoles to stores and unlike trends at the time, refused to take the defective returns as credit towards future purchases. Store then had one tough decision, either such up an occasional $300 loss or risk losing the ability to sell NES games.

when did a nintendo console ever cost 300 dollars?

NanoGator
06-09-2006, 04:36 PM
For all of you Nintendo lovers let me remind you (how quickly we forget the negatives of the past) blowing on and popping up and down NES carts if you even wanted to play a game....

How quickly we forget...? That was 20 years ago!! Heh. Since then, we've had the Game Boy, SNES, Virtual Boy, N64, Game Boy Advance, GameCube, and the DS, none of these with this problem. Yeah, we expended tons of energy to suppress that one. Hehehe.


While yes it is entirely true that Nintendo has made pretty sturdy systems since they came out of the stone age and ditched the Cart system (so that would be gamecube only) they still havent had an original title in about 20 years.......they made about 5 titles and remade it over and over and over and over and over again.....HOW MANY MARIO GAMES CAN YOU MAKE??? or Metroid, or Yoshi (a spin off of freakin mario) or megaman, castlevania, donkey kong.....the over played and way too overdone Zelda series is the only thing they've done in a while that at least had a story.......COME UP WITH SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR GODS SAKE!!

Yeesh. Almost not worth going into this one, really. Super Mario Bros. != Super Mario 2 != Super Mario 3 != Yoshi's Island != Super Mario 64 != Super Mario Galaxy, yadda yadda yadda. It really isn't worth calling those games remakes. Compare those to say the Sonic series, and you'll get a little more about what I mean. Nintendo also gave us Pikmin, Luigi's Mansion, Wario Ware, Mario Party, Mario RPG (admittedly, that might have been 2nd party...), Nintendogs, yadda yadda yadda. If you were talking about Mario Kart, I'd be more inclined to agree. That was more of an evolutionary series.


Wow, Wii is motion control.....woohoo....DS has a touch screen.....ooooo, awesome gimmick that wears very thin after about 20 mins of gameplay.....nintendo has become the Flash Arcade of consoles.....kinda reminds me of high end graphics versions of those little tiger games we had as kids.....no substance, no story, just a way to kill some time while waiting for the bus.

Erm, okay. I could take the cheap way out and point out that the DS kicked the rear of another portable system that is essentially a PS2, one of the most successful consoles in gaming history. Afterall, at some point you really cannot consider it a gimmick anymore. But thre's more to the story. They made a game machine that plays... games. Some people define that as 'killing time'. Okay. You're using fun to kill time. That's what any game is, story or not. If it's not your cup of tea, fine, no problemo. It's not Nintendo's fault that lots of people want to play quick simple games.

Instead of coming up with a new and creative time waster, why not come up with something really inovative....where you are actually immersed in a story....an original story....with characters that arent as played out and cliche as freakin Ronald McDonald...

Been done before. That's not 'innovative'. Lots of games attempt this, not all of them succeed. For every Zelda game there's a ton that drift into the mists of time without anybody really remembering it. In the mean time, Nintendo's given you better human interaction devices. This is a Good Thing TM. Ask anybody who ever played San Andreas on the PS2 or XBOX.

But it sells more units and makes more profit, and really thats all its about is selling a product, no matter how disapointing.

Dissapointing products don't sell. Ask Sony about that.

ParamountCell
06-09-2006, 04:43 PM
What's a fanboy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy good description.

Like i said before in another thread it would seem that Nintendo is going a different route from the competition. They are not interested in making multimedia centers to attract casual gamers, rather they want to attract them by showing them innovative gameplay. They seem like the game industries Mcgyver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McGyver) (minus the mullet), they have existing technology and use it to create something inventive, they are quite resourceful in that respect.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/27/Macgyver.jpg/180px-Macgyver.jpg

PyRoT
06-09-2006, 05:56 PM
People need to realise that many gamers are attached to the Nintendo characters and this gives the games a better feel. Thhere is no reason to come up with different worlds if the ones they have now work just fine. Imagine if every Mario game had a different character, with a different, look, proffesion and name. That would be silly. ikewise with their other franchises.

If you still don't understand, how about Metal Gear Solid with a different commando everytime game?

All these games use the same characters and worlds but they innovate in gameplay. The main exception would probably be Final Fantasy but taht is a very story driven game so no ned to continue characters. I personally don't find the games open enough due to their focus on story but meh.. that's just me

Tomek

EpShot
06-09-2006, 06:03 PM
And i suppose Metal Gear solid 4 and HALO 3 makes sony and micorsoft uncreative?

JonShipman
06-09-2006, 10:55 PM
For all of you Nintendo lovers let me remind you (how quickly we forget the negatives of the past) blowing on and popping up and down NES carts if you even wanted to play a game....and how many times did you really wanna get back to a saved game and just gave up cuz the thing wouldnt even start.....I remember those days.....thats why as soon as PC emulation came around i retired the console.....never had an emulated cart fail on me.

While yes it is entirely true that Nintendo has made pretty sturdy systems since they came out of the stone age and ditched the Cart system (so that would be gamecube only) they still havent had an original title in about 20 years.......they made about 5 titles and remade it over and over and over and over and over again.....HOW MANY MARIO GAMES CAN YOU MAKE??? or Metroid, or Yoshi (a spin off of freakin mario) or megaman, castlevania, donkey kong.....the over played and way too overdone Zelda series is the only thing they've done in a while that at least had a story.......COME UP WITH SOMETHING ORIGINAL FOR GODS SAKE!!

Wow, Wii is motion control.....woohoo....DS has a touch screen.....ooooo, awesome gimmick that wears very thin after about 20 mins of gameplay.....nintendo has become the Flash Arcade of consoles.....kinda reminds me of high end graphics versions of those little tiger games we had as kids.....no substance, no story, just a way to kill some time while waiting for the bus.

Instead of coming up with a new and creative time waster, why not come up with something really inovative....where you are actually immersed in a story....an original story....with characters that arent as played out and cliche as freakin Ronald McDonald...

But it sells more units and makes more profit, and really thats all its about is selling a product, no matter how disapointing.


Nintendo does come up with innovative titles. Geist, Pikmin, Brain Age, Project H.A.M.M.E.R., Disaster Day of Crisis, Animal Crossing, Chibi-Robo, DS Air, Elite Beat Agents, Magnetica, Meteos, etc.

It's just because there's only one or two in these series why you've been "left out in the cold" about their existence. Nintendo keeps making Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong games because they're popular. Convince people to stop buying those games and Nintendo will stop creating sequels. Personally I still want another StarTropics sequel.

spmonahan
06-09-2006, 11:36 PM
Is it me, or does anyone else also find the size difference hilarious?

Well, you now what they say about a guy with a big console, right?

ParamountCell
06-10-2006, 10:11 PM
The gamecube can still be broken by the spirit of a hateboy, and so can the heart of a kid lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfmx4sZNhXU This reminds me of the time my electronics teatcher killed my tamagotchi :sad:

back on topic, we will see how this turns out of nintendo, they seem to really be getting popular these days.

DAZKevin
06-12-2006, 08:54 PM
Strange... My experience is quite the opposite... I have a 4, 2, and 1 year old all throwing, dropping,a dn palyign with my wavebirds, and standard without a problem...



Wish I could say that my experience with GC controllers showed them to be just as durable... but alas, drop one on a hard surface and you'll be lucky if ANY buttons work afterward.

.

Rick Flowers
06-12-2006, 09:35 PM
Not to brag or sound like an idiot but... I will be totally honest...and sort of off subject...

Products I usually buy or am attracted to, end up winning and being the most succesful in the market (in the medium time window, that usually matters most).

I have not purchased the 360.
I will not purchase the PS3.
I will buy the Nintendo.
Wii wins.

oh and I didn't even own a game cube. So don't go off on how I'm a fanboy...

DAZKevin
06-12-2006, 11:03 PM
Pikmin, Odama, DK Jungle Beat, Kirby Air Ride, Eternal Darkness, Wario Ware, Nintnedogs, Brain Age, Tetris DS...
Seems to me Nintendo is the only company actively looking to innovate. Unless you want a generic FPS or a GTA clone, you will be buying a Nintendo game.

they still havent had an original title in about 20 years.......they made about 5 titles and remade it over and over and over and over and over again.....

BenDstraw
06-12-2006, 11:50 PM
i think nintendo is the most creative of them all. it seems the other titles seem to mostly be making cliche games that strictly fall into a genre. like fps and rpg seem to be the big ones. but i do like oblivion.

PattyMelt
06-13-2006, 04:03 PM
It's funny when when people sometimes talk about how the 360 and Ps3 have great graphics and that's the future, but it isn't. Graphics are nice, but innovation will make a system really shine. I'm loving the WII because it did something new. It's controller. I like how it acts as a light gun with the stick controling movement. If you tilt the remote, your hand in game will tilt(Red Steel). In the Tony Hawk game coming out for the WII, you hold it like a tech deck in a way and shake it when you need to boost. I mean, it has great potential to make games more interactive. Just my two cents.

SHEPEIRO
06-13-2006, 05:05 PM
saying that because there are loads of mario games means nintendo make sno innovation is stoopid. they re-use famous characters to allow them to make new and different games, the character carries the game in relation to marketing, but the underlying game is often quite inventive. while alot of other companies tend to do the opposite, new IPs in the same old formula. Why is it that Nintendo has some of the most recognisable IPs because they re-invent them.

a bit like madonna :-Z

sheppyboy2000
06-13-2006, 07:23 PM
Geist, Pikmin, Brain Age, Project H.A.M.M.E.R., Disaster Day of Crisis, Animal Crossing, Chibi-Robo, DS Air, Elite Beat Agents, Magnetica, Meteos, etc. Pikmin, Odama, DK Jungle Beat, Kirby Air Ride, Eternal Darkness, Wario Ware, Nintnedogs, Brain Age, Tetris DS...

Hmmm, okay. This should be fun. And possibly get me more flames than a "pimped out" Honda Civic....

Geist, if if it wasn't just another FPS clone with the stolen gimmick from Messiah, it was still a crapfest.

Pikmin, oh, gee... great. I always wondered what would happen if Nintendo made their own Realtime Strategy game. Thank you for taking the view of Sacrifice and reducing the entire concept of RTS games to primary colors...

Brain Age, nothing bad to say here. I love it. Aside from the whole "draw africa" start up sequence each day.

Project HAMMER. I dare someone to say this doesn't look like a generic action game.

Disaster: Day of Crisis. Disaster Report. If you never played this game, you're an idiot in need of education.

Animal Crossing. What happens when Nintendo makes The Sims?

Chibi-Robo. Not made by Nintendo. Published....

DS Air.... wha? Seriously. What is this game?

Elite Beat Agents. Once again, not made by Nintendo. Published. And considering the bang up job Nintendo did in song selection for Donkey Konga 2, I have little faith the music won't suck. "Oh please, Nintendo! I totally want to motivate a horse to capture a thief on a motorcycle to Good Charlotte."

Magnetica... if you've never seen this game before, you live a sheltered life. It's pretty much a popular online puzzle game brought to console.

Meteos... Not Nintendo... published.

DK Jungle Beat. Okay, you got me here. Good game.

Odama. Instead of giving us lame Pinball adventure games, just rip off the best one, Pinball Quest, and call it quits. Hey Nintendo, 1970 called, they want their pinball popularity back.

Kirby Air Ride. Eight years late on delivery and 20 years late on design.

Eternal Darkness. Umm, yeah, even if you never heard of Alone in the Dark, there is still Resident Evil. Good game, but about as innovative as Warioland 3.

WarioWare. Okay, so we have this great series we've been running into the ground called Mario Party. People love the minigames. So let's just make a game series that's nothing but minigames. Incidently, 2 of the 4 Warioware series has been good. The rest have been rushed crappiles.

Nintendogs. Go back 10 years to Dogz. Same thing, but better graphics and more to do. Just because it's a gameplay style dusted off from long, long ago doesn't make it innovative. Oh wait, Nintendo fans also believe Famicom Wars was the first turned based strategy war game too sooo....

Tetris DS. Wait, your arguement for innovation comes from Tetris? BWA HAHAHAHA HA

Look, I love Nintendo but most of the game designs come from the "something borrowed" category. And while I WISH I couldsay Nintendo is the king of innovation, so far with the Wii, Nintendo has only answered the obvious questions on how to use the new technology. Just as they have done on DS. And DS currently remains the ONLY area of Nintendo quality right now. Most of your Gamecube games suck compared to their N64 counterparts.

I want a return to the only Nintendo. The one that demanded I play it loud while offering games like Unicycles without some line about how "everyone of every age can enjoy this innovative title."

ParamountCell
06-13-2006, 07:37 PM
sheepboy... remember Mcgyver? No body would ever say, that he wasnt being inventive, or innovative, the guy took a tennis racket and used it to disarm a nuclear weapon. Does it mean he wasnt innovative because he borrowed the tenis racket? No, he was innovative because he used existing items to create something new, similarly nintendo may take existing genres, or existing hardware, and use it in an innovative way, do you see?

we must not forget mcgyver... but we must forget his mullet.
http://www.flashcube.org/images/macgyver.jpg

EpShot
06-13-2006, 07:49 PM
great, this thread is going to degenerate into another "there is no story that hasn't been told" thread.

of course those gaems borroed from other games, but that doesnt' mean they aren't innovative. AN di'm sure the previous postr didnt' spend their tiem truley comtemplating the innovativeness of each games. it was a responce to a previous post that sia dnintendo jsut use dthe same 5 IP's therefor eto go through and actualy rate the innovativeness of each title was a pointless and quite a waste of time.

sheppyboy2000
06-13-2006, 08:06 PM
sheepboy... remember Mcgyver? No body would ever say, that he wasnt being inventive, or innovative, the guy took a tennis racket and used it to disarm a nuclear weapon. Does it mean he wasnt innovative because he borrowed the tenis racket? No, he was innovative because he used existing items to create something new, similarly nintendo may take existing genres, or existing hardware, and use it in an innovative way, do you see?

we must not forget mcgyver... but we must forget his mullet.


http://www.flashcube.org/images/macgyver.jpg



But here's my point. Nintendo wasn't being inventive. Directly taking but adding something new doesn't make it innovation. To use your own analogy... let's look at the Macgyver situation.

MacGyver takes a tennis racket and coats it with tin foil. He then smooths this foil out and uses it to deflect laser beams. Okay, innovation at work.

But if MacGyver takes a tennis racket, paints it black, and plays Tennis with it, one can hardly call it innovation. Great, he now as a black tennis.

That's Nintendo. So far, aside from Warioware Wii, as only given the most basic answers to the question of "what do you do with this?" Will this change? I hope so. Because Wii, so far, looks like nothing more than another attempt at Xavix. And relying upon Nintendo "Innovation" is "a long wait for a train don't come."

Nintendo of old, is dead. Hopefully Nintendo smash success of Brain Age and the DS in general will help them realize they need to do more than what they have been. Because Nintendo, to me at least, has been running in place for the past 8 years.

Now there is nothing wrong with delivering "more of the same" when this is good. But Gamecube was definately inferior to N64 game quality wise. Despite the better graphics, more content space, and all around more power to play with, N64 stood as the example of "Nintendo does 3D" instead of "Nintendo just whiling away the months to next generation."

DAZKevin
06-13-2006, 08:33 PM
Apparently your defenition of innovative and mine are not the same...Shakespeare was not innovative becasue he did something entirely new, but that he took elements that existed and made them feel new.

I am aslo a tad suspicious, that from your descriptions of certain games, that you looked at a few screen shots, and possibly read a review instead of playing the game...
Sure Pikmin has SOME RTS elements, but it is a far different game... It is an innovative take on some things that make RTS games fun and for the first time, makes them truly accessible and fun on a console.
Animal Crossing is similar in some basic concepts to the Sims, but trying to claim that they are the same is silly. The purpose and experience are entirely different. I doubt they would even really appeal to the same group...
Eternal Darkness... Again one I think you didn't actually play... The sanity effects, the deeply intertwined stories, the three alignments...
Wario Ware is to Mario Party's mini-games as Apples are to Oranges. Sure they are both fruit; but it pretty much ends there... You could claim that GTA is derivitave of Mario Party, because the mini-missions of GTA are liek the party games... you earn Money in the GTA ones, and Coins in MP... so CLearly Rockstar is not innovative, becasue they just borrowed GTA from Mario Party...
Obviously you haven't played Tetris DS... Sure it seems odd to point to a classic staple of gaming as "innovation;" but that just proves how truly innovative it is... Remeber that feeling you had the first time you played Tetris? Nintendo found that and put it in this game.
Kirby Air Ride- So it came out late... big deal... Nintendo tried something new... while everyone else was making control more complex, they tried to make it easy. Anyone who gave this game a real chance found a great, fun, deep game with nearly limitless replay...

Anyway... it is clear that we are working from different ideas of what "innovative" is...

sheppyboy2000
06-13-2006, 08:45 PM
Actually, I OWN everything I mentioned. Way to make assumptions though.

innermindseye
06-13-2006, 08:56 PM
hahaha... Mcguyver. priceless!!

ParamountCell
06-13-2006, 09:20 PM
Actually, I OWN everything I mentioned. Way to make assumptions though.

You own project hammer, and disaster ? Am I to assume you own wii? Please tell me were to get one j/k:thumbsup:

Ok back to the example of Macgyver, you say all nintendo did was take a tennis racket painted it black and played tennis with it? I wont completly disagree with you. Nintendo have worked on wining formulas and recycled them, but then so has the rest of the industry. The difference is this whilst nintendo do this they also innovate, with both software and hardware. Lets use Another Code aka Trace Memory as an example, at a first glance this may be considered as another point and click adventure, however, the Innovative design of the DS will not allow this, when playing the game you must really think outside the box, for example using the reflection of both screens against each other to make a new image. http://www.tracememory.com/

Metroid prime? although I was dissapointed at first that this was not going to be a third person game, I realised that retro studios actually managed to capture the clostrophobic condisions of the original metroid games. Using the already existing Z targeting system used in Ocarina of time, the battles in Metroid prime are not as clumsy as allot of console fps games, changing the genre completly. Sounds like a lazer reflecting tennis racket to me.

sheppyboy2000
06-13-2006, 09:24 PM
Damn, forgot I mentioned Project HAMMER and Disaster Report. Nope, don't own a Wii... yet. But once somebody will allow preorders, I do have $500 liquid to throw at it. Just as I have $1200 liquid to throw PS3s way. There is an advantage to saving $10 a week when a console is announced. Whatever surplus, for example, if going directly towards an HDMI compatible projector....

DAZKevin
06-13-2006, 09:26 PM
If you read what I said you will note that I assumed nothing... I said It was suspicious, and therefore suspected that you had not; but never made any definative prediction... And OWNING is not playing... and Playing is not experienceing...



Actually, I OWN everything I mentioned. Way to make assumptions though.

danielkenobi
06-14-2006, 01:29 AM
nintendo DS cartridges are cheaper than PSP games, i could easily see them making their Wii games cheaper and if not the savings will be passed on to dev houses, due to less licensing costs.

it also applies to NGC vs PS2 games RE4 is around 30 bucks for NGC vs 50 for PS2

Cypher666
06-14-2006, 01:08 PM
I think alot of people are missing the point of the wii. Take a look at the PS3 and 360, they do NOTHING to change the way we play games, your still sitting on a lounge bashing buttons for hours on end, which is fun, but certainly not innovative. I hear alot of talk about immersion and how it's the graphics,story and characters that bring you into the game, which is true, however IMHO I think that having to physicly interact with a game is a totaly differrent level of immersion that will take gaming to a whole new level. The level of control that will be available through the Wii will give developers more power to create much more "interactive" games, something I've been craving for many years:drool:. I'm no nintendo fanboy (in fact I've only ever owned a snes) and if this sought of control system was in a 360 I'd go for that instead. Which raises another question, how long until sony and M$ inevidably follow suite:hmm:?

urgaffel
06-14-2006, 01:20 PM
...Which raises another question, how long until sony and M$ inevidably follow suite:hmm:?

They will follow if/when the Wii turns out to be a hit (or at least sells well enough to warrant copying)

DAZKevin
06-14-2006, 03:12 PM
Sony is already trying to copy Nintendo. They announced at E3 that the PS3 Controller will have some limited motion sensors. As usualy the attempt to copy is pretty lame; a tilt sensor is in no way equivelent to the full range of abilities contained in the Wii... but it does show how popular the idea is with programmers.

ParamountCell
06-14-2006, 03:20 PM
Sony is already trying to copy Nintendo. They announced at E3 that the PS3 Controller will have some limited motion sensors. As usualy the attempt to copy is pretty lame; a tilt sensor is in no way equivelent to the full range of abilities contained in the Wii... but it does show how popular the idea is with programmers.

Correct! We must not forget my prediction:buttrock:

Originally Posted by laureato di arte
today is the 16th of december 2005, the time is 20:15, I want you to remember this day, and remember this time, you must not forget. Infact all who doubt me, I want you to put this statement as your signatures. Today I am making a prediction, either sony, or microsoft, or both will incorporate this idea into their next controller.

And we must not forget its fulfilment...

http://www.wii60.com/uploads/107.gif

ParamountCell
06-14-2006, 03:29 PM
hahaha... Mcguyver. priceless!!
Ye the memories, satuarday afternoon on ITV, good times good times

Cypher666
06-14-2006, 03:55 PM
Sony is already trying to copy Nintendo. They announced at E3 that the PS3 Controller will have some limited motion sensors. As usualy the attempt to copy is pretty lame; a tilt sensor is in no way equivelent to the full range of abilities contained in the Wii... but it does show how popular the idea is with programmers.

I had read this before, however it seemed like such a pathetic attempt that I didn't think it was even worth mentioning. They have had those lam tilt things in PC gamepads for years and are completely useless. I guess they would work a little better with games specifically designed to use them, but it would be impossible for them to come close to the sort of accuracy that the Wii system will feature. My guess is that Sony will most likely release something alot more akin to the Wiii controller as an addon later.

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