View Full Version : Anatomy Thread of Womball - 2D/3D

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06-04-2006, 05:13 AM
Hello there! I'm going to be entering my Senior year at University of the Arts. I'm an animation major, so I am not new to drawing. However I do need to improve my skills a bit since soon I will have to make several demo reels. I want to make an animation demo reel, a modeling demo reel and finish my senior thesis animation (I have all of next year for that). I want to try to get an animation demo reel and this model finished over the summer.

I'm happy to finally start an anatomy study thread here. I just started learning anatomy in some detail in Figure Sculpture class. I find it really fun and confusing at the same time. I am aiming to continue studying it and eventually be able to memorize the visible superficial muscles. In the thread I will be working on a full body male anatomy study in 3d cg (blender, zbrush, and XSI most likely). I also want to experiement with Zsketch and OpenCanvas for sketching. I may practice some full scale drawings as well. The overall theme will be humans and animals.

Here is the start of my male anatomy muscle study. I will add muscles (striations included), tendons and veins in zbrush. By the end of the modelling it should look like a Body World exhibit. I started this earlier this week.


06-04-2006, 10:37 AM
Welcome, Womball!

I suggest you find some ref images of, erm, naked men or something to help you correct he anatomical mistakes in this one. Memorise the bones and muscles of human body, but hey, you know that you need to do that :) Some mistakes, like the clavicle, it doesn't go down, I don't see no deltoids, pectoralis major doesn't end sharp and things like that. I know it's just the start, but just to tell that it's not perfect yet :D

06-04-2006, 03:10 PM
Thanks for the tips! I will be looking up more images from 3d sk soon. I know this needs a ton of work! One thing I'm not sure about is if I should model in the T pose or in the anatomical pose. In the T pose the Delatoids are contracted, and are a different shape. I'm also combining different references so it doesn't look like one person. I want a made up realistic human to work with. :-) So the proportions may be off. Any suggestions in proportions would be extremely helpful.

06-04-2006, 07:06 PM
Hi....Womball....Glad to see your thread up...:thumbsup: ....I don't know zip about 3D...Just started playing with Z BRUSH a couple of months ago. I found that what I learned from Burne Hogarth
years ago when I was fortunate enough to have him as a teacher, has been very valuble to me
as far as Z BRUSH and sculpture goes....his method of seeing the human form is perfect for
doing sculpture....he learned his method and aproach to the human figure from the greatest
sculptor that ever was...Michelanglo...I think it would greatly help you and your sculpture, if
you got his anatomy books...found on the internet...would make your task a lot easier for sure.
Great to see your figure in progress..I don't understand half of what you are talking about, but
I am starting to understand it more than I did a couple of months ago..LOL
Thanks for visiting my thread and trying to explain this new 3D mystery to this old dog. I might be able to learn a few new tricks, just by observeing your work in progress, so keep


06-04-2006, 07:11 PM

Great to see your thread up and running! :)

I did a review of your model so far, I hope this helps:


I second the advice to join 3D.sk for anatomical reference, it's the best out there in terms of Orthographic Ref for 3D modelers.

Also you should be aware of the Body Topology Thread which Steven runs (it's a Sticky in the Maya Forum I believe). You may wish to post your model there as well for questions that are more 3D specific, as concerns posing and binding and the like. :)

Hope this helps!



06-04-2006, 10:18 PM
@ Rebeccak- Now that's the type of crits I like seeing. Straight to the point! The drawn crits are the most helpful I think. I actually do have a membership at 3d.sk so I will download more references tonight. :-) I have been focusing on the head the most, so its good nothing stands out on it. I have been studying the topology thread in the modeling section. I think that's Stahlberg's as well. I hope to have the back modeled tonight or tomorrow.

@Spirit dreamer- I will try to explain it better, it can get complex. Michaelangelo wrote books too? What are they called?

06-05-2006, 06:10 AM
Today's updates: I completed the back, and started forming the limbs. I detailed the front a bit as well (that's where most of the time went in today's update. I am still using default materials but I added 3 more area lights and added color to all of them. I also changed Ambient Occulusion to Subtract rather than add so I need more lights for this to work. If this is distracting I can remove the lights. I'm having difficulty with the back and butt though. Also the genital fold of the front of the torso could use some more tweaking. I find it kind of hard to understand the shapes there. I'm using a new reference person from 3d.sk named Peter. Btw I'm using blender still to model the base mesh. I'm using the Sub-D modifier which alllows me to easily revert between Sub-d's and poly's. Sub-d's render nicer in the engines generally. Much smoother. I will take it into zbrush and pull out all of the tendons and attachment points, and define the muscles and striations there. I'm most likely going to paint in zbrush as well. I'm aiming for an XSI render for the final output.


06-05-2006, 06:33 AM

When modeling the exterior of the human form, it is crucial to understand what is going on beneath the surface. This means studying what the bones, muscles, and tendons look like beneath the surface of the skin.

The main thing that you need to use and become familiar with is anatomical reference. There are many reference sources available here on the forum, but here is just one of them which I think you will find useful:


Reference for Anatomical and Figurative Art (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=257570)

I most definitely advise purchasing a few Anatomy Books:

Anatomy Resources : BOOKS (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=257424)

Also, I think a better 3D artist has skill with 2D drawing and painting. Do you have any examples of 2D work? 2D Drawing will give you a grasp of Anatomy really necessary for 3D modeling. I would encourage you to purchase one or more Anatomy Books and to copy the work in pencil or pen in a sketchbook. This is a much cheaper and faster way to understand form than it is to model form in 3D.

Cheers, :)


06-05-2006, 06:45 AM
Actually I will be modeling the underlying areas as well. I have a wacom board as well. I just don't own Painter or version of Photoshop on my current computer. I can't draw very well without pressure sensitivity and none the programs I have, have it. The lines have little variation and this is kind of distracting for me. Its kind like drawing with a pen. :sad: I just heard about OpenCanvas, and I may purchase ArtRageX. Do they have pressure sensitivity? I do want to do additional studies so I will probably check out your references tomorrow. Hopefully I can create some portfolio quality 2d pieces soon too. :-)

I might be able to upload a few of my anatomy sketches from class tomorrow, they are notes from the class though. I really haven't done too many detailed anatomy studies yet, drawing wise. As for the model, I haven't really focused as much as I would like on form. I want to work on filling out the rest of the figure, and gradually refining all of the shapes and topology.


This reference is awesome! Are they real muscles? They seem to have some sort of protective plastic on the tendons. I will update tomorrow using this reference for corrections! The butt will be corrected as will a lot of other areas. I think I may be able to use the muscle striation flow for topology flow.

06-05-2006, 10:50 AM
:) Hi.....Womball....Burne Hogarth learned by studying Michelanglo...:)
His books on the human figure are


What he has to offer goes beyond bacic anatomy....which is the easy part by the way..:scream: :)


06-05-2006, 01:51 PM
Hiya Womball,

I actually think you would be better off doing Anatomy Studies with real pencil, and not Photoshop, Painter, or other program.

Check out the work of DoctorBone (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=352470), who works Traditionally doing Anatomy Studies all the time. These types of studies are highly useful and I think are the best way to go in terms of learning the figure.

Cheers, :)


06-05-2006, 03:13 PM
Hi womball,

welcome and now you are in the trap of the anatomy threads, hehe. I find it very difficult to model things in 3D, even if there are good blueprints. It is a great job you approach, but if you get this I think it will be a high improvement to follow the suggestion of Rebecca.

Have a lot of fun!


06-05-2006, 03:45 PM
I hope this new photobucket rule doesn't prevent me from showing work. I don't know how else I'm going to show work to the genital region. They are the midpoint of the anatomy which helps with proportions. :sad:

06-05-2006, 03:50 PM

There are other Image Hosting options, but personally I liked Photobucket the best. It's a shame, really. I'm not sure what they would consider nudity as regards Anatomical Drawings ~ but it's best to play it safe, I think. I am looking into other solutions.

Cheers, :)


06-05-2006, 04:07 PM
I guess I will have to use a black card for the front or a blur. Hopefully they won't block images of the butt. I am not sure if this is considered nudity there.

06-05-2006, 04:10 PM

You are also free to post images as attachments in the meantime when you create a post.

Cheers, :)


06-05-2006, 06:40 PM
Hurray! Hopefully I will get myself to do a minor sketch today. I'm going to have take photos of the images so they won't look as nice as scans. :-( I need to get a scanner someday. One that doesn't make my head explode...

06-07-2006, 06:47 PM
Hi...Womball // Nathan .....:bounce:

Just wanted to THANK YOU for those GREAT... Z BRUSH links that you just posted on my anatomy thread....WILL REALLY BE A HUGE HELP TO ME....THANKS....:thumbsup:

Can't wait to see some drawings from you....that is something that I know a little something about....hope I can be of some help to you in that area, if you need it.....I O U ...:)

06-07-2006, 07:33 PM
I will post those soon. Hopefully I wil have an update of the model as well. I'm trying to polish it a bit more. I think you could give crits on the 3d as well. The structure should be the same. It the topology part that gets tricky, but I'm not sure if I should be worrying about it that much. I really only need to maintain that every polygon is a quadrilateral (4 sides). When I take it into zbrush I will pull out more detail.

With detailing in zbrush, make sure you know how to change division levels. Ctrl D adds a division level if your on the highest division level. Typically Lvl 5-6 is where I can max out on. The higher the poly count, the harder it is to navigate but the more detail you can sculpt in. This is important for fine details. You can lower the sub division level at any time by pressing Shift+d. When you smooth the smooth effects are more dramatic at lower levels. D raises the level but does not add levels of division.

06-07-2006, 09:50 PM
Some leg sketches of anatomy drawings in Eliot Goldfingers Figure Anatomy for Artist book (its a really long title, its cheaper to buy it from Amazon.com than from a bookstore). I didn't shade though. I tried to indicated depth with line hardness and quality. I need to work on this though. I used I think stippling for bone areas.

I'm trying to do a lot of updates to the body study, but its taking a bit longer than I expected.

06-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Hi....Womball // Nathan....like your leg study...very important to learn..bones, and muscle attachment points....equally as important, and as you probably know,.. function is the key that unlocks motion and describes action....so I am going to mention Burne Hogarth once more, he
is or was the master of function,..I think he is the logical next step in your study of anatomy.
When I was in school...late 70's...OTIS PARSONS ART INSTITUTE...LA,..I took bacic anatomy,
learning all the bones, muscles ect....plus at the same time, I studied under Burne Hogarth, who was teaching classes in figure drawing, so that I could put all of those bones and muscles that I was learning to use, and to bring them to life so to speak..he was the perfect master for
reaching that goal that I had set for myself...he has a GREAT teaching method, can find it in
the books that he has left behind, for new generations, and older generations alike to learn from...will make your task in 3D and 2D much easier, and a lot more enjoyable if you invest in them,..when you can of course.
ALSO...when you get a chance,....check out ..Anatomy thread of Thomasphoenix // Siju..
He is a 3D person, and also an expert in the methods and teachings of ..Burne Hogarth.



06-08-2006, 04:51 AM
Hopefully photobucket will not remove these. A ton of updates. The large amount of wires on the nose is intentional. I will pull out more detail later there. And when I take it in zbrush areas with high polygon concentrations will be able to get more detail at lower levels of subdivision. That's my theory at least. I simplified the mesh quite a bit so I might have lost some details that were nice.


06-08-2006, 11:48 AM
I would like to see this model after sculpting it in zbrush. Again i suggest to look more deeply to the human body. Put these renders near some photos and see what are your mistakes. But I think nothing that couldn't be fixed in zbrush :)

06-08-2006, 10:41 PM
June 8, 2006

Hello Womball !!
You said it would be OK to help you with your 3D figure, So - I did.
Played with it this morning - I hope you don't mind.

Corrected some errors - think it will be easier for you to correct them at this stage of the game and then fine tune them in Zbrush as you were planning - maybe.
I don't know that much about 3D. But am hoping to learn with help from people like you.

The main thing is to notice that all the outside curves are there and in the right places. Also a neat trick on the back muscles is to make an "M" shape like I have done. All the muscles will fall into place in and around that "M" shape. And you want to have a "butterfly" shape for the buttock's muscles. Just like the upper and lower wings of a butterfly - the bottom one being bigger. Two muscles for the buttocks. For the side view I just sucked in his gut a little - gave him his shoulder muscle - and the outside edge of the butterfly wings for the buttocks.
Also study the collar bones and how the muscles connect to them and where they start and end. They are not a straight line - but a complex curved bone.
Hope this is of some help to you.

Just trying to pay you back a little bit for helping me.

Looking forward to seeing your progress on this figure.
Keep posting !

Take care Glenn


06-08-2006, 10:57 PM
Hi Womball - Your private message is full - you need to delete something! So posting this note here...

If you do a search for author : Burne Hogath on either of these sites they both have his books used at great prices:
Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/gp/homepage.html/102-5748823-8695309http://)or Alibris (http://www.alibris.com/)
All of his books are great.
I think good ones to start out with are:
Dynamic Anatomy
Dynamic Figure Drawing


06-08-2006, 11:33 PM
Wow! This will help out a lot! I just added a foot too. So I will probably post images of the foot itself. I really need to get those books. The more references the better. Maybe I will have some time to go out tomorrow and pick up one. I just figured out that I can probably model the basic shape of the hands. Than make them skeletal (except for the tendons and muscles). I don't think i need to model nails, since I don't think they attach to the bone. The M structure on the back could probably done in zbrush. I think I should keep the back simple for now. More flexibility later on in zbrush. And when I get to zbrush I might also try explore zscripts. That way I can document my zbrush sessions.

If I can model the muscles like you have drawn I think I will have a successful piece! However right now I think the most important aspect of the base mesh is that the proportions are spot on. I will probably have the mesh done in a couple of days, but I want to spend close to a week refining it. I freed up my mailbox too!

06-09-2006, 03:00 AM
New updates, the most notecable is the feet. I tried to get as much detail as I could from the amount of polys available. I also tried to correct proportions.


06-09-2006, 06:12 PM
Hi...Womball / Nathan...Glad to hear you bought Burne Hogarth's DYNAMIC ANATOMY...:thumbsup:
With him, the key is to pay attension to the principles of describeing the human form that he writes about, and demonstrates...They are the same principles that Michelanglo and all the classical sculptures used...Romans, Greeks ect....His style is his own, and is what worked for
him..the principles that he teaches, on the other hand,... are proven, ...and they work ...:)
The book DYNAMIC ANATOMY leads into the second book DYNAMIC FIGURE DRAWING, which
is where you will find all of the priniples put into action, and applied...:thumbsup:
Your figure is starting to shape up, but still needs some work...but that's what it is all about..:scream:
I am going away for the weekend....but am looking forward to seeing the progress on your
figure when I get back.


06-09-2006, 09:22 PM
Wow photobucket is staying true to the word. GRRRRR!

06-10-2006, 12:24 AM
Womball...you might try going to the library, and checking out a book on botany...you might
have to learn how to do a decent rendering of a.. FIG TREE LEAF ...:scream:

06-10-2006, 12:34 AM
Blah! That's too classy! Its an additional challenge.

06-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Womball...You can always use the BLUR BRUSH, and then sharpen the ojects of objection later:scream: :) ....there is always more than one way to skin a cat...be creative..:thumbsup:

Also ..have you looked at the way the muscle in the upper arm...backside, goes below and behind the shoulder muscle, ...can be seen clearly on the side and back view....creates a
strong cresent shaped curve, when viewed from the side...Hogarth has some great examples of that
muscle...check it out, if you haven't already...:thumbsup:

06-12-2006, 07:56 PM
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/c67861dc-completemalefron.jpg (http://www.slibe.com/)
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/814ab7ef-completemalefron.jpg (http://www.slibe.com/)

http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/fd29b4c9-completemaleside.jpg (http://www.slibe.com/)
http://www.slibe.com/fullimage/55fa5c20-completemaleside.jpg (http://www.slibe.com/)

These will only be up for a month, than supposedly they are removed. But I should be completed the project by than. If you no any permanant solutions let me know. Slibe isn't permanant. I changed the proportions and topology quite a bit. Its basically overal more simple. All though the hands are about 500 polys each! Yow!


06-12-2006, 08:29 PM

Wow, there has been a lot of great improvement here! :thumbsup:

Some areas which you might still address are the upper arms, which look a bit pinched, and the head, which I still think could be a bit larger. Overall I think your hard work and Glenn's suggestions have really paid off in spades! Great stuff! I will do a paintover in a bit if you'd like. :)

In terms of image hosting, you might try ImageShack (http://www.imageshack.us/), which apparently people have not had problems with.

Keep up the great work!



06-12-2006, 09:14 PM
That would be awesome rebeccacak! I will post some closes up of the head too soon. I'm sure there are areas that can be cleaned up around the eyes. Hmmm have to see about imageshack.

06-13-2006, 01:00 PM
Hi...Womball // Nathan....:thumbsup:
Really starting to shape up...starting to get a feel for those outside curves, that are formed by the inside muscle masses.... still needs work on that back upper arm muscle...think of it as
rounded in center, with tendons on ether end...bottom has two tendons that conect, one on the inside of back of elbow and one on the outside back of elbow....When this muscle is turned
on, it contracts or bulges, forceing your forarm or lower arm to straiten out in an exstended position...then when you want to close your arm, say to bring your thumb up to touch your shoulder,..the front upper arm muscle is turned on...contracts or bulges, and pulls your lower or forarm up and in towards itself...so you can touch your thumb to your shoulder...when the front upper arm muscle is working.. contracted and bulging, ...the back upper arm muscle is exstended, streched out, and becomes thin looking...it is kind of like
rubber bands pulling and being pulled at the same time....action....reaction ....setup.
The same princaple applies to all of the muscles and tendons throughout the body...you can't have a muscle contracted...bulging,...without it's opposite... exstending and thining..
pull out and pull in....very important to know where, how, and why, the tendons are where they are, why they are there, and what funtion they are serving...can't have propper motion, without them being in the propper ...contracted or exstended position.

Next, you might want to do a study of the wrist, the two forarm bones...how they overlap, when the thumb points inward towards the body, and how they are side by side , when the thumb is pointing outward , away from the body....a lot of muscles and tendons involved in that ...not so simple action..:scream: :)

YOUR PROPORTIONS ARE GETTING BETTER BY THE WAY....Rebecca's paint over will show you where you are off .
Keep posting,...really enjoying seeing this figure develope...:thumbsup:


06-15-2006, 02:46 AM
Here's close ups of the head. I have done a lot of little tweaks to it, mainly proportional and added a longer neckline (goes closer to the ear). I think as a result the skull is more apparent and will be easier to pull out in zbrush. If you see any really large errors on the face let me know. And looking forward to the that paintover. I am going to have draw the arm muscles again to see if I can follow what you guys are saying.


One thing that is kind of weird is that it seems like he has a slight expression rather than a lack of one. I think my eyes may be playing tricks on me.

06-16-2006, 03:21 AM

The attachment contain views where the penis is visible. Let me know if I should do anythign specific with it, otherwise I will blur out the genitals in future updates so I can use photobucket.

Here are head updates, the head is larger now, I haven't changed the framing of it yet. But I did a couple of tweaks here too. The front part of the ear is tricky I may have to redo the topology there to get it less smooth.


06-16-2006, 03:48 AM

This is looking better and better. :) I think you would probably be able to safely use imageshack.

One suggestion with respect to the chest is that the nipples seem to be too low / too close to the edges of the pecs, and the corners of the pecs still a bit sharp. Also the hands either seem a bit too large, or the wrists a bit too slender.

In terms of the face, the main thing that is off is the placement of the ears. The tops of the ear should align with the eyebrow, and the bottom of the ear should align with the bottom of the nose. Currently the placement of the ear is too high in the head.

The nasolabial fold (http://medicine.tamu.edu/neuro/22.gif) should also originate outside of the wings of the nostrils / rather than inside them.

Also look at images of the jaw, and how it connects to the ball of the skull. Right now you have the mandible falling well shy of the ear, which is not anatomically accurate.

Hope this helps! :)



06-16-2006, 04:01 AM
Is it imageshack.com? I went there and get a list of available upload sites. It doesn't seem to work like photobucket. But I could have swore there was an imageshack upload host that had a yellow frog on it. It must have a different URL.

06-16-2006, 04:24 AM
It's http://www.imageshack.us/ :)



06-16-2006, 05:17 AM

I added a simple skin shader, blender internal still. I want to take this into xsi though for Mental Ray and XSI's possibly more flexible? rigging. I will upload some full body skin shaders from the imageshack. Thanks rebecca you rock! Hopefully this may make some of the forms easier to see.

06-16-2006, 05:29 AM
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5439/headskinfront8mn.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=headskinfront8mn.jpg)
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1453/headskinside6ej.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=headskinside6ej.jpg)
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2800/headskinback7ef.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=headskinback7ef.jpg)

Updates to all of those areas. Let me know if the shader is distracting or not. I had to change the lighting to less intense to work better with it.

Gah! I forgot to lower the ears!

06-16-2006, 09:14 AM
Great improvement, Womball. I think the model is ready to be sculpted in zbrush. That's what you were going to do, right? I'm looking forward to that :)

06-16-2006, 09:34 AM
Hey hey Womball =D

Pretty nice models going on!

I guess you could lower the the ears a bit. If i'm not wrong the ears should start from the eyes and end at the nose ( the height i mean)

The area that dips in after the lower lips seems to be too deep? You might wanna check it out.

IMO the facial features are a little squashed vertically but I guess that's just my preference.

I'm watching this thread =D

Keep it up =]

06-16-2006, 10:53 AM
Hi....Womballl // Nathan

He needs a throat under his chin...looks like a funnel...starts out wide , narrows and extends
down to the pit of the neck...with adams apple in the middle....wider wrist...the BONE STRUCTURE of the skull and face can be brought out more in Z BRUSH I think....looking better each time I see him.....GREAT JOB SO FAR....KEEP POSTING :thumbsup:


06-16-2006, 04:05 PM
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/9545/humanfront8cx.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humanfront8cx.jpg)
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1605/humanside9ad.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humanside9ad.jpg)


Lots of subtle updates here. I do use a few triangles, I hope that doesn't give zbrush too much problems. I used a new reference (actually its pretty old) and worked on the silloutes by viewing the alpha channel. I want to unwrap this soon, and get some uv test up soon than take it into zbrush hopefully by Monday.

06-17-2006, 04:10 PM

Hey there, I hope the following review of the head helps: :) Mainly I made the ear smaller and lowered it just a tad, as well as extended the back of the head and adjusted the chin, which seemed overlarge. Also I think the jaw should be more defined and terminate just below the lower lobe of the ear:


More to come...

Cheers, :)


06-17-2006, 04:46 PM
Here is a paintover for the front view of the face: :)




06-17-2006, 05:23 PM
Paintover for the front view of the body (note that I didn't paint the viewer's left leg, just the viewer's right):


EDIT: Side view (only changed the leg):


EDIT: Final paintover of back view:




06-18-2006, 03:23 AM
Thanks for these! They are proving extremely useful. Still have some more work to do on him. The jaw really seemed to pop things out. Also the curve of the back was off as well, but I don't have views of that. I have added another camera that is not in an orthograpic perspective this shows the back. I think I will show that as well soon as well. I started a sketch too in Zbrush's zsketch plug in. I'm going to take my time with it, since I'm not to quick with a wacom pen right now. Its been awhile since I had to color with one.

06-18-2006, 07:00 AM
Here's a new update. Played with lighting and AO this time too.

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9043/occuludemanfront3yy.th.jpg (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=occuludemanfront3yy.jpg)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2247/occuludemanquarter2ep.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=occuludemanquarter2ep.jpg)

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/9308/occuludemanside5pi.th.jpg (http://img131.imageshack.us/my.php?image=occuludemanside5pi.jpg)





The opengl side view is there so you can see the chin adjustments. I tried to follow all of your suggestions rebeccak.

06-18-2006, 02:59 PM

I think this is improving! Thanks for taking the suggestions in stride. :) I think what mainly seems off are are the eyes ~ there is just something not perfectly round about them, and the irises seem too big. I would try experimenting with textures. Are you using a perfect sphere? Perhaps the eyelids are a bit indented, and that is causing the eyes to appear a bit odd. I don't know if this might be something more easily corrected in ZBrush.

I think things are looking good and I am impressed with your amount of progress. I'd be interested in hearing what others had to say. :)



06-18-2006, 03:27 PM
HE STILL NEEDS A THROAT UNDER THAT CHIN, needs this kind of edge there \ ..upper eyelid extends out further than lower eyelid creating an angle like this \ as seen from the side ...same angle \ for the lips as seen from the side.....STUDY Hogarth's faces, in that
anatomy book you just got....shows all those angles that I just mentioned...:scream: :)
Keep going....looking forward to seeing your progress...:thumbsup:


06-20-2006, 01:27 AM
Some updates to the head. I think he's ready for unwrapping! I have several side views since the fake skin shader isn't quite working right. Its based on vertice paint light areas after all. There needs to be a really strong light for it to work correctly, which often either flattens the face like last render or has parts of skin glowing too much that are in shadow. Dark areas glow too which create shaded areas. The wind channel can be pulled out more in zbrush I think, I don't have that much topology there yet. And areas near the seams of the instances tend to be very sensitive to changes on the x-axis.


06-20-2006, 10:02 AM
Hi....Womball // Nathan.....:thumbsup:

You have really come a long way on this figure....you now have a strong foundation to work
with and from....just like building a house, if the foundation is not strong, the house will fall.
Can't wait to see you take this figure to a higher level in Z BRUSH...should be GREAT :thumbsup:


06-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Last tweaks I think. I changed the back topology slightly and the face as well. The eyelid has an extra vertice at the corner. This edge loops travels to the side of the lips. So I have more room for detailing I think there. I also pulled out more details in the leg and back and genital region. Also notice the feet changes, no toe nails, but afterall nails aren't imbedded in the muscle. Time for unwrapping.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/6053/anatomylegs1pr.th.jpg (http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anatomylegs1pr.jpg)

06-20-2006, 07:37 PM

This is looking so much better, and it's been great to see your progress so far. My main concern at this point is the odd flap that fixing the jaw caused, I don't know if that's due to an odd shadow or an actual crease in the geometry about the jawline, but that might cause you problems.

At any rate I really look forward to seeing your next steps in ZBrush, and it's also great to have you aboard OFDW 018! :)



06-20-2006, 11:04 PM
2 hour unwrap due to abf unwrapping :bounce:. I think the stretching isn't that bad. I have been spending quite a bit of the 2 hours trying to control it and make sure there is no overlaps. The final poly count of the cage mesh is 6180 polygons! This is the polygonal view of the mesh. So it has some rough edges.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3538/frontmalehumanuvtest8in.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=frontmalehumanuvtest8in.jpg)

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4250/sidemalehumanuvtest0bh.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sidemalehumanuvtest0bh.jpg)

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7691/backmalehumanuvtest9xm.th.jpg (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=backmalehumanuvtest9xm.jpg)

06-23-2006, 06:27 PM
I had some new crits from a mirror of the thread for the wires and here is the tweaks from that. I redid the UV's as well I think this has a lot less stretching.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/3313/perfectbodyfrontuv3kp.th.jpg (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=perfectbodyfrontuv3kp.jpg)
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1681/perfectbodyfsideuv5bj.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=perfectbodyfsideuv5bj.jpg)

06-24-2006, 04:19 AM

Starting to zbrush it. I have to fight it constantly from becoming too lumpy. The material allows the cavitys I'm creating to be seen easier.

06-25-2006, 09:53 PM

I posted this to the OFDW 018 thread, but thought I would post it here as well just in case:

Hope this little demo helps you and others get started on your painting ~ the key is to break down the process as simply as possible from the beginning:

The first is to select a range of range of tints and hues of one value, such as brown, to simplify the coloring process. I used the HSB (Hue, Saturation, Brightness) Slider to select five tints/shades of brown, ranging in value from light to dark, to create swatches from which I will select repeatedly in the creation of a painting. From the Color Palette, select HSB Sliders.


Once I have selected and created swatches, which I place on a single layer (you can just paint these swatches quickly, you don't have to create perfect selection) and call that layer swatches on top of all other layers, and lock it so I don't accidentally paint on that layer.

The key thing is to fill the entire canvas with a mid tone so that you have an automatic basis / ground from which to build up in your lights and down in your darks.

Continually alt + sample your swatches while in brush mode. Then, work from dark to light to build the tones of your painting.

Use the shortcuts [ and ] to respectively decrease and increase your brushsize.
Use the shortcuts Shift + [ and Shift + ] to respectively soften and harden your brush.

Play with opacity and flow.


Hope this helps! :)



06-27-2006, 06:57 PM
Is this a better way of approaching color than building up tones in black and white? Than applying a low opacity color layer over top? I know some paintings were made this way. I still want to redo some proportions and detail corrections. Hopefully a strong foundation will lead to a strong finished image.

Btw I'm getting a hang of zbrush again. It takes awhile to get used to it if you don't use it constantly. Also is there a way of posting my portfolio image in the 3d gallery? I clicked on post in 3d gallery, and its not appearing in 3d finished works where people crit it and give it 3 or 4 stars (1 and 2 is possible as well). :-) 5 stars is evil for some reason, I have yet to see one that stays 5 stars.

I have been gone for the weekend, we dropped my sister off at summer camp.

06-27-2006, 08:26 PM

All images are now submitted to the Gallery through your CGPortfolio. Bear in mind that you don't have to (nor should you) submit all images posted to your CGPortfolio to CGTalk's Galleries. In fact, if you want to submit work to CGTalk's Galleries, you should only submit one artwork per day. :)

Should you want to post a piece to both your CGPortfolio as well as to the CGTalk Gallery, in your Manage Gallery section of your CGP, you you just click on the down arrow shown in the screen capture (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/CGPortfolio/Submit-Image-to-Gallery.jpg), and check the appropriate checkbox and click "Save in Gallery". This simultaneously submits your image to your CGPortfolio as well as sends your image to the CGTalk Gallery Validation Queue, where it is either accepted or rejected by a moderator. If your image is accepted into the Gallery, it will appear in the Gallery in around 24-48 hours. You can see the status of your image in your CGPortfolio, it will be listed as either accepted or rejected, and why. Bear in mind that images which you don't submit to the CGTalk Gallery will be listed as 'rejected', but that's just the standard default.

Please note that for the 3D Gallery, CGTalk does not accept untextured models.

I know this is confusing but it's actually pretty simple. Just let me know if you have any questions. :)



06-27-2006, 08:37 PM
I was hoping to post my journey begins entry. Everything is textured! The screenshot is a bit too small though, I can't quite make out the words. I don't plan on posting all of my portfolio images in the finished works. I want to put a few WIP in portfolio just to keep interest up in my portfolio and to eventually display a variety of different mediums.

Is it okay to post conceptual character designs here? Some will be based on human figure some will be quite out there. :-)

06-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Originally posted by Womball: The screenshot is a bit too small though, I can't quite make out the words.
Womball, Are you using IE as a browser? In Firefox, you should be able to click on the image to make it full size (it's a full size screenshot). I'll post it here as an image so that you can see it:


Originally posted by Womball: Is it okay to post conceptual character designs here? Some will be based on human figure some will be quite out there. :-)
Absolutely! :) You should also check out the following related threads for inspiration:

SPOTLIGHT: Best of Creature Designers - Year 1 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=349061)

SPOTLIGHT: Best of 2D Concept Artists - Year 1 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3479462#post3479462)

By the way, I forgot to address your earlier question vs. the black white vs. color method of digital painting. I think it's best for a beginning digital painter to use black / white for at least 2 paintings, preferably more. But using a limited color palette with a full range of values is also a good next step after a black white set of pieces.

Cheers, :)


06-28-2006, 01:04 AM
You've got some great modelling going on in here... facial stuff needs some work, but you're definately got something good going!

06-29-2006, 10:47 PM
I have not had much time to work on this, and this is the best part so far. Keep in mind I do not know how to set smooth in zbrush, when you get to high resolutions in zbrush it does not really matter either. I am still doint a lot of research on muscle structures, so its going to take me awhile to rough them all out. The seratus, abs oblique, mentalis and gluteus medius are driving me nuts. They seem to vary radically from source to source. I don't know know if there are 5-7 serratus muscles, and how many obliques there are. The gluteuse medius seems to be in different locations in different sources, and mentalsis is very hard to get decent references for. The sources that have been giving me run arounds in these area are, the goldfinger book, BodyWorlds book, and Dynamic anatomy.


I will probably do more updates by tonight, but I need to seriously get back to work on my master reproduction. I don't want RebeccaK to steal my soul.

06-30-2006, 06:10 AM

Some more work on the dwarf. I'm going to do a grayscale version than paint in low opacity colors. If you have any suggestions on proportions or what could be fixed, let me know!

07-01-2006, 05:22 PM
http://img435.imageshack.us/img435/2893/devilmuscle5ta.th.jpg (http://img435.imageshack.us/my.php?image=devilmuscle5ta.jpg)

Sorry its taking so long to do updates. I'm not quite fully used to zbrush yet. I lost a lot of details due to having to revert to a morph target save. I had an error in the mouth that was too complicated to iron out in zbrush for me anyway. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to select vertices that get behind others, a transparent wireframe would be great for this.

07-01-2006, 05:43 PM
What you would really like to see is Digital Sculpting: Human Anatomy, Zbrush to Maya workflow with Zack Petroc. It's from Gnomon DVD's. I haven't seen it, but I heard people saying very good things about this DVD. And the images tell the same.


This should help.

07-01-2006, 05:58 PM
That looks like a great dvd. Kind of pricy though. My model should be at that level soon though. I just need to keep at it. I do want to go further though and fully reveal all of the muscles, but it is tricky to make thin and thick muscles look like muscles. They have a tendency to become lumpy and undefined easily this way.

I really want to get Aaron Simms creature design volume 2 since it covers professional rigging in XSI. Its a Gnomon dvd too. Its a shame I didn't hear about gnomon college until recently, that would have been a fun college to go to. They may offer graduate courses though, so if I end up over there, I may try to continue some education there. Although I think I learned a lot in a rather short time at my current college.

07-01-2006, 06:09 PM

With respect to your 2D piece, my main recommendation is to fill the bkgrd with black right away and to work from dark to light, vs. from light to dark.

Also it's really useful to create just a few swatches, ranging in value from light to black. 4 or 5 swatches which include white, black, and a few midtones should suffice to get a good range, especially if you use varying opacities. Fill in the major areas of tone first, don't go for details:


Cheers, :)


07-01-2006, 06:21 PM
Ah so it may be time to just work out the tones. I can probably improve the proportions a bit more in this stage as well. I really like that palatte idea. Its much easier than hunting for the colors! I like the keep it simple with the tones I should be able to rough out the image fast that way.

07-01-2006, 06:24 PM

Yes, the lovely bit about digital is that if your proportions are off at this stage, you can always copy, paste, rotate, scale, etc. to get them right at a later time. I like to keep paintings very fluid at first (especially when working quickly) and this allows me to push tones around without a huge concern for making things perfect. Gradually as an image starts to develop from the contrasting tones, I will start to focus more and to hone in on refining tones and details. But as with modeling, you want to start with the big shapes first, and refine.

Cheers, :)


07-03-2006, 08:55 AM
Hey Nathan,

some really nice stuff in your thread, I find your zBrush work especially interesting:thumbsup: !
Hope to see more updates soon!

Have a nice day!


07-04-2006, 03:30 AM
Thanks sabrina! Here's some new updates to the torso. The front is almost done. All of the forms are there now. They do need to be tweaked though and tiny striations added.



I'm probably going to not use the red material anymore since it kind of obscures the smaller details. The face is getting close to done as well.

07-04-2006, 03:40 AM

What is the ultimate goal and context of this piece? I think the red is really overpowering, and it obscures the modeling that you've done. Is this character going to exist within an environment, or is it purely an exercise? I think he looks a bit devilish atm, and I don't think that's your intention. :)

Two threads that you should check out are:

Anatomy Thread of dcheng7475 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=315362)

Anatomy Thread of the cgHuman (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=300669)

Damian (d_s) who worked on the cgHuman, might have a lot of helpful advice for you regarding texturing. :)



07-04-2006, 03:54 AM
The ultimate goal is to create a posed model, that is a blend of Versalius and Bodyworld's model. I will be doing very advanced texturing though (well this is technically texturing right now). Lots of layers and experiments with XSI shaders and rigs. I will probably put it in a simple scene and add that to my cg gallery. And if its really good it may showcase my modelling demo reel.

These models are awesome! Its nice to see the other approach, I did that for the head, foot and arm previously. I won't use red in the next updates. I need to finish zbrush sculpting the model and create normal and displacement maps from it. Although I have a feeling I will have to either upgrade my RAM or create yet another bump map to get the fine details.

07-06-2006, 11:26 PM
About a week of sporadic work. Everything has been manipulate and tweaked, but not all of the muscle forms are sculpted yet. I'm not sure if the mentalis is correct.


07-07-2006, 04:45 AM

Hey there, yep, those models are indeed very cool! :) I should have thought of them earlier.

One thing I'm confused about over your model ~ it seems like in the face, you're trying to model the muscles minus the skin, but in other parts of the body, it looks like you are showing the skin overtop of the muscles. Can you clarify in words how you want the final piece to look?

Cheers, :)


07-07-2006, 05:12 AM
No skin for most of the body, so I'm probably going to have to revisit everything. Where do the muscles look like they are under skin?
The gentials may have some sort of sack around them since to do them in a body world style, would be impossible at this point (the penis hangs behind the testicals and the testicals hang by the vas deferens [sic] I think). They needs some sort of binding. Any suggestions would be highly appreciated!

07-07-2006, 05:32 AM

I'm not sure if I've posted this link here before, but I think that this could be quite useful to you: :)




07-07-2006, 06:11 AM
Cool references! I will probably print out some of these references so I have them easily accessable. But I'm still not sure what looks like its covered by skin (other than the back, legs and arms).

07-10-2006, 05:23 AM
Line layer removed. Slowly working on this. :-) Probably over relying on the smudge tool. I will probably have to do low opacity build ups later on.

07-10-2006, 05:27 AM

Starting to look good here. :) Remember not to go too light to quickly. If you do, just add another layer of low opacity dark gray over top, and continue painting. :)

Take your time on this ~ I can always add your image to the Wrap Up thread once you're done. The main thing is to do a good job and to get a lot out of the process. :)



07-10-2006, 05:40 AM
Hey Nathan,

really impressive work here with your anatomy model:thumbsup: ...good that you are not using this red any longer, details are coming out better this way. Keep up the good work!

And I see you've also the time to paint on your OFDW picture :), let's see more of this!


07-10-2006, 11:28 AM

GREAT work on that 3D model......I think that on the standing back view...that horizontal line
at the bace of the ...M...shape, is throwing it off....you might build up the latisimus dorsi...
wing muscle,...have it wrap around the romboids....shoulder blade muscles....inside and outside.....this will prduce the proper curves...both inside the figure, and outsde.
When you raise the arms, ...there is a very gracefull double curve created on the outsde edge of the figure...in males.. ...extendes down
from the armpit to the side muscle...spare tire....in beer drinkers...:scream:

Thanks a lot for those links on Z BRUSH that you just posted on my thread by the way....very useful to me.....really apreciate those....THANK YOU...:thumbsup:

KEEP GOING ON YOUR PAINTING EXPERIMENTS ALSO....but don't get carried away with
too much techncal stuff at first....paint from the heart,... trust your instincts...and your
inner eye....vision......:thumbsup:


07-11-2006, 04:38 PM
Hehe, I actually turned 21 today. :-) I'm probably not going to update for a couple days. :-)

07-11-2006, 04:40 PM


Hope you have a great one! :thumbsup:



07-18-2006, 03:48 AM

Some more work, slow week though, been kind of busy.

07-19-2006, 06:27 AM

The body is looking very cool! I think with the face, the impression is a bit too pitted / caved in, but I know that's the technical bit of ZBrush you're getting used to. You ought to enlist the critique / help of Ryan Kingslien (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=192302), the lead trainer for Pixologic and an active member / forum leader for CGTalk. A very nice and helpful person, you should contact him. :)



07-19-2006, 07:13 AM
Hey Womball - I noticed you have a thread at ZBC too but I will answer you here. You mentioned modeling muscle striations (sp?). These can very easily be done in PM with the Deco Brush and the correct alpha. Some experimentation will help you there. You can also check out this video to see how Cesar does some cool stuff with masks:


I would say the first thing to do is to go down several levels of resolution and try to get the most out of each level of geometry. I find it easier, when sculpting, to go slowly through the levels of resolution until i need my final level of detail. this helps me keep the form crisp and avoids the lumpiness you mentioned in an earlier post.

Also, I would get a little more bold in your approach. When you sculpt the sterno-cleito-mastoid (sp?) do it in one bold stroke from skull to clavicle. Try to get as much of the muscle in that one stroke as possible. When I work I like to think of Sargent. While it may look weird to an outsider, trying to capture the essence of form with a care-free but finely controlled stroke can really help you progress. it forces you to focus on the essential gesture of each form. Zack's Gnomon dvd is a good example of that process in ZBrush.

It is late and I am babbling so I will sign off.



07-19-2006, 07:14 AM

Thanks a lot for the reply, I know you're hugely busy with SIGGRAPH preparations. Hugely insightful, that's great! :)

EDIT: That video rocks! :thumbsup:



07-19-2006, 07:56 AM
Hey Nathan!

Happy belated birthday:beer: ! I hope you had a big party and much fun!
Great to see the work on your zBrush man continued:thumbsup: . I agree with Rebecca about the face, I think it could need some smoothing work. But I see you've already got some more competent crits from a zBrush pro here:) ...
Looking forward to the next update!

Have a nice day!


07-19-2006, 12:04 PM
Wow hey Ryan! Thanks for the advice! I forgot about the mask technique, It may help with defining the really tricky areas of the hands and feet. I will see if it helps with the face creating the muscles. This is all really time consuming process using the basic tools, so something extra is need. For the sternocleidomastoid I was aiming for having the platisma in front of it, so I'm really trying to get the feel that the sheet-like muscle is on top of muscle.

Although when I draw mask it does not render out as nicely as it does on ceasars tutorial. They tend to be rather light grey and blend into the mesh. So I forget they are there. The masks can't be 1 pixel in diameter when you use lower sub levels, so does that mean you use a size 5 brush there? Or is there another setting you have to change?

No big party dawinky, I actually had a family death on the birthday. So it was kind of sobering, I just managed to drink a Drunken Geisha (vodka and sake I think) at a restaurant called Jasmine. The next day I had to carry the coffin, which was heavier than I thought it would be.

Thanks for getting Ryan's help Rebeccak! I will see what I can accomplish on the face. Hopefully an update in a few days, maybe even tonight if I get home early.

07-21-2006, 04:32 AM

Some updates to the head using the masking technique. Sorry its a bit late, I was out with my parent checking out real estate South NJ. Pretty much all day. :-(

Photobucket is saying a lot of my recent picture s are void now! They don't violate the rules either, I had pictures of just feet and that seems to be taboo. Oh well.

07-21-2006, 05:12 AM

Good to see your update ~ something that I think would really help is if you could post your references for comparison. :)



07-21-2006, 06:19 AM
This zbrush sculpt is the inspritation for a lot of it.


Ideally it will look like a live person without skin. Eyes are essentially texture and material so that will be done later on.

07-22-2006, 01:14 AM
Lots of updates to the proportions and shape of the body. Most of the muscles are defined, yet I don't know if this material shows it that well. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/muscleweek6ishcensored.jpg

If this gets deleted here is a link to an uncensored version.


07-22-2006, 02:24 PM
Intimidating details!

They're looking great! =D

07-23-2006, 09:57 AM
doesn't a human without skin feel just plain uncomfortable? LOL great going!!

there are a couple of things that really bother me though... first of all the eyes - the eye balls are round and your eye holes feel too flattened - the eyeball would crush too much with them I fear [perhaps I'm wrong but that's what it looks like from both front and side views]

also the chin seems to be drawn in - it looks like he's straining his muscles to do it, to draw it downwards toward the neck but still the head is not tilted - hence the neck gives an impression of being far too thick... hope it made sense LOL

great excercise, keep it up:thumbsup:

08-02-2006, 06:42 AM
New update at zbrushcentral of this model. This is an unofficial update since I'm not posting a censor version for here. There will be censored update at the end of the week. Let me know if you would like to see both with and without the color texture map. The colors are rough right now btw. I'm going to make them a bit more organic and non flat later.


08-05-2006, 06:25 AM

Some more updates to the mesh. Lost the texture due to a zbrush crash, and having the texture disabled at the time of the crash. I'm going on vacation to Virginia Beach, for a week. When I get back I hope to have some concepts posted for characters.

08-05-2006, 01:51 PM

Your figure is shapeing up nicely.....you might want to add a little curve to the inside thigh line.
You have a very long strech of area there, from groin to knee, with no curve in it...imposible.
Also the inside calf muscle line should sit lower than the outside calf muscle line..always think
of opposing curves on the outside and on the inside of the form...the curves on the legs never line up side by side....think of a snake in motion....also...don't lose sight of proportion in pursuit
of detail...think of where the fingertips will line up , when they come down and touch the outside of the thigh...simple but very important ingrediants that make the human figure human.:)
Really enjoying the progress on this figure...should be great when it is finished..:thumbsup:


09-06-2006, 09:06 AM
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/6572/muscledisplacementtestfrontus7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9996/muscledisplacementtestbackkn0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Some updates and rendered in blender for now. Had some issues with it and am back in school, senior year!

09-08-2006, 04:56 PM
Woo! Some really nice work you got going here with your skinless guy!
The last render is really creepy - but somehow I prefer the previous, bumpy one - it gives an almost mummified look, very cool!
The masking technique - I had forgot about that too, great reminder. It works very well here I think.
Looking forward to follow this further!

09-09-2006, 06:59 PM

Eek, I have to say that the pink is a bit scary! :D Perhaps he looks a bit too slimy, I think if you can turn down the specular a bit...a nice matte look and a richer color would, I think, make this guy a bit less menacing. :)



09-10-2006, 04:02 AM
Hehehe. This is just a shader test! And its not an XSI test yet! I have to repair the base mesh because it was somehow corrupted and I loss some polygons. The UV mapping is the hard part to repair. But muscle is around this color though. I found an image of a kid who had a snake bite, which caused his arm to swell up a lot (it bit his hand). to relieve the preasure of the arm they had to open it up, so the live muscles could be seen! I can't find the website right this second although it was an extremely graphic website. :-) THe kid did manange to regain the use of his hand, although he had to have multiple skin grafts and it took a long time to heal.

#edit- here's the website, however ONLY CLICK IF YOU HAVE A VERY STRONG STOMACH. I think I need to get my character a darker red eventually.

09-10-2006, 05:55 AM
I am not easily grossed out...I find surgeries fascinating. When I was in my 20s, I was an assistant to a really good opthalmic surgeon. I was the only assistant, he said, that never once got woozy in minor surgeries he performed in the office. Heh.

That rattlesnake bite and the progress of surgeries and grafts was just amazing to read about.

Your anatomical model is really something to look at. Will be interesting to see it when you get the surface settings down.


09-13-2006, 07:13 AM
Hey Nathan!

You've made some stunning progress here with your skinless man:thumbsup: , it's looking better and better and I can't wait to see it with a proper surface...I agree with Becca, the current pink is a bit scary:D ...
Sad to hear that you've had trouble with the model, hope you can repair it all.
And thanks for the snakebite-link, that was really interesting to see...(I'm only glad that here are no dangerous snakes around:scream: ...).

Nice day for you!


09-16-2006, 10:06 PM
109 in pencil

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/3397/nudefrombehindql8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

09-17-2006, 02:52 PM
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7465/nudefrombehind2py2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Update to 109

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/7674/crouchingnudepi3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


09-21-2006, 02:48 AM
Hey Cris! My father is an optometrist yet I'm still grossed out by eyes. I don't think I could be an opthalmic surgeon or an assistant to one!

I fixed the error DaWinky. Trying to finish up the visible veins I'm depicting.

Btw the third image I'm working on is one of those Rueben paintings that was listed. I have been crazy and am trying to render everything with various pencil strokes so its taking quite awhile. Lots of figures in there!

If anybody has or knows how to set up a successful render tree that combines, fast SSS shaders with displacement and normal maps let me know! This is for XSI.

09-21-2006, 07:25 PM
http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/8038/muscleveinspart1vk2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/3816/backveinsupperhalfdq6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Working on finishing up the modelling and just started the coloring. The veins need to be refined though. There are still some leg veins that need to be sculpted too.

09-21-2006, 11:56 PM
Hi Womball! Wow, great to see the whole process you've gone through with your 3D model - it's looking really fantastic!

The coloring you're doing really brings all the surfaces and textures you have into focus, makes it much easier to understand. Great choice on that, reminds me of one of those crazy medical sculptures they had in my anatomy class which always creeped me out! (In a totally good way!)

Some minor critiques overall to help you along:

While I don't know much about 3D... visually, the upper inner thighs seem to bow inwards a bit too much, which might make your model look a little bowlegged. It's hard to tell for sure with the last model because we don't get a full view of the entire body, so I could be wrong, hehe.

I really appreciate your tenacity with this project - the sheer time invested is incredible, and the changes you've made along the way are great. You should be very proud!


09-22-2006, 04:39 PM
I am! Your from Philadelphia? I am going to University of the Arts in Center City there. Senior year. I will post some more views later, of the lower half. I want to finish cleaning up that area first.

09-22-2006, 05:03 PM
I see you pushed the muscle guy pretty far. One thing just came to my mind. If you would have modeled it, not sculpted. Because now all you get is exterior. By modeling it, you would first do the bones, then muscles on top, see where they attach and so on. Now it's even pretty hard for me to tell where are the muscles. I'm not saying that I'm correct but I think that you might have overworked it. Think of that, mate :thumbsup:

09-22-2006, 08:05 PM
I would still be finishing up the skeleton if I did that approach Razz! The skeleton is very tedius to model (202 bones I think and of varying complexity).. Here are some links to where I did this with the skull, arm bones and feet. I do intend to do that someday, but I want to wait until I have a much more powerful computer and free time for that. This way allows me to focus on proportions much more which are hard to do in that approach. Proportions are extremely important in animation and character design. The better I know them, the more I can break them intelligently.

In a year or so I may model a female from the bones up though. I have done this in clay, but I can probably do it more successfully in cg.

And the head is linked in my signature. Skinless self portrait.

09-23-2006, 06:58 AM
Of course that would have taken longer. Sculpting is a faster proccess than modeling. But you seemed to have a nice start on those bones and muscles. Maybe in the summer, eh? :D

09-23-2006, 07:28 AM
Hey, I just dropped in to see what was up. I can't get through your entire thread, but I wanted to see how your model was coming along. It's looking really cool! :D Your drawings are looking good, as well. Very expressive gestures. Nice to see. :) I'm looking forward to seeing more. :D

09-23-2006, 08:06 AM
Hey Womball, the muscle renders look great, the color adds a lot to the realism of it. I think some of the anatomy is a little off because of some of the bone structure, such as the ribs... but im not sure about that. The lower body looks like its being pushed back also, but this could be an effect of what it really looks like without skin. Keep up the good work! your doin good. :)

09-24-2006, 06:15 PM
RUBENS, Pieter Pauwel
The Union of Earth and Water
c. 1618
Oil on canvas, 222,5 x 180,5 cm
The Hermitage, St. Petersburg

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1803/rubens1bx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

this took about a week. although I didn't work on it everyday maybe about 6-10 hours. I need to get a bit faster to finish in time. Although I'm not going to do that many full composistions though, they take awhile to do!

09-25-2006, 06:05 AM
Hey Nathan,

Wow, I really like the latest version of your skinless guy, things are coming together now, good work:thumbsup: ...if I'm looking for something to crit, I'd say that the veins are a little too prominent now...maybe..:shrug:

And also nice to see your work here with the torso studies:) !

Have a nice day!


09-30-2006, 10:29 PM
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7929/ignudo1rx3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9646/studyforadam90ck5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

#94 line quality study of Leonardo Da Vinci Theda

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/624/leodavincitheda94ae7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Feel free to crit my drawings, I would love some feedback! I want to improve. especially in terms of control and not relying on sketchy lines.

10-01-2006, 01:10 AM

I was thinking ...if you want to get away from line,..you can always get a large pad of newsprint..very inexpensive, and a few sticks of charcoal, or conti crayon,which is even better.
The technique with those, is to hold the stick shape crayon between your thumb and your first
two fingers..pressing the whole side of the stick against the surface of the paper. When you
make your stroke, press a little harder towards the far end of the stick,...this will creat a crisp outter edge, with a soft gradation leading inward away from it..break the stick in half for creating smaller strokes for smaller areas. This method allows you to creat volume with one stroke.
Using this method, you can creat a whole figure in minutes. When working big, you want to stand at arms length from paper..work from the shoulder more than the wrist,..this will put energy into your strokes.
Practice just making strokes first on a blank piece of paper...see how many variations you can get in your strokes. When you are comfortable with the technique,..try it with a figure.
Your figure will be made up from edges, and gradations.. not lines.
I think you will find this technique to your likeing, if you choose to try it.
It was one of the old masters favorite techniques, and is as valid today as it was then...:)
Good luck with it, if you try it,.. and I look forward to seeing the results of your efforts, which should be GREAT, if you choose to try this technique I think...:thumbsup:
By the way...THANK YOU for all the help you have given me with my efforts at trying to learn Z BRUSH...Trying to repay the gesture with the technique decribed above...hope you enjoy it, ..it's a lot of fun, and produces great results when mastered...Rebecca's latest works are the proof...:)


10-01-2006, 01:29 AM
I love conte! I'm definetly buying some tomorrow. I will have to try the charcoal sometime as well its been awhile since I drew on 18x24 newsprint pads. 3 years I think. Um how do you scan these images though, they are much larger than normal scanners and the chalk would most likely smear all over the place?

I'm also interested in sumi brush stroke. It would be fun to do anatomy with that, although I'd have to learn a lot about the basics before that. Brush stroke is everything with that.

10-01-2006, 12:22 PM

If you work big on that newsprint with conti crayon, you will need a camera to take photo's
that can then be scanned in....You might ask Rebecca for details on lighting ect....pretty sure
that is how she is scanning and posting her images.
Sumi brush and ink is a very powerful and expressive way to paint for sure...some of the old chinese masters of that brush produced some incredible works containing atmosphere, long
before the west....DaVinci discovered it...:scream:
Glad you like conti crayon...been a long time since I used it myself...I still have a few large pieces from years ago....had them shrink wrapped....still as good as the day I did them.
I learned the technique from Burne Hogarth years ago while taking a figure drawing course taught by him in L.A.....GREAT technique for depicting the human form, and it is fast, which
makes it even better....:)
Really lookinging forward to seeing a couple of torso's done in that technique from you..:thumbsup:

10-04-2006, 05:24 AM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1068/finalmusclesperhapsnh0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Just needs to be cleaned up than I have to use XSI to get some proper renders! This is a temporary material btw.

10-04-2006, 06:18 AM
Ah, the skinless guy...:thumbsup: ! You've already said that the material is temporary, so I find nothing to crit! Eagerly waiting to discover the first XSI-renders now:bounce: ...


10-05-2006, 07:53 PM

That's a close up of the head's expression with a default zbrush material. Its cleaned up as much I could in zbrush so now its time for photoshop or gimping.

10-05-2006, 09:15 PM
Your model is looking great Womball. I wish I could do 3d modeling. 3d programs and I do not get along at all. Those are some very nice drawings as well you have. I look forward to seeing more of your work.

10-07-2006, 12:59 AM
# 64, Womball, impressive pencil work! A lot of elements there to get right. :thumbsup:
6 - 10 hours sounds fast to me!

(I'm working on the torso of the guy on the right at the moment, using a charcoal pencil on an old varnished, wooden shelf, of all things. :) )

10-08-2006, 10:39 PM
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/1325/backskinneddg8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1125/frontskinnedbn6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/1212/sideskinnedse7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3813/head34skinnedmc2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

A few blender renders with a color composite map (the map is a blend of the normal, cavity and color map generated in zbrush). I still have to iron out some details and smooth out poly mistakes. These are blender renders btw, not sure how to get displacement maps to work in XSI, how to get it to look really shiniy (not sure what settings are required there) and the enevelops still need a lot of work.

If you have an xsi advice let me know! I think I can get much better renders in there with the nodes and lighting.

10-08-2006, 10:43 PM
needs a better lighting setup obviously - heheh I hate doing that part so I may as well be all wise ;)

the face looks weirdly grainy in closeup - is that the bump?
It's progressing really well - makes me itchy though just to look at the poor man!

10-08-2006, 11:26 PM

That guy is getting a lot easier to look at....:scream: .....I like the lighting and color better..and the little bit of shine on the surface....adds more wieght and unity to the figure...:thumbsup:
The only small crits I can see at the moment, are that maybe you should put the little muscle that runs from the thumb into the first finger....creates the webbing between thumb and finger.
This will make his thumb not seem so far back in it's placement on the side of the hand.
Top lip might be more pronounced..overlapping bottom lip...creating a 45 degree angle, when viewed from the side .
Angle of muscle leading into the top of groin, when viewed from the side, seems a little to severe / steep.
Would not mind seeing the inner thigh muscle have more of an outward curve and bulkier presence, where it joines the pelvis...would prevent that bow legged effect.
This figure has come a really long ways from it's conception....GREAT JOB...Womball...:applause: :thumbsup:
Looking forward to seeing where you are going next with it...:thumbsup:


10-12-2006, 12:14 AM
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/7352/truthberninibs1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7925/ignudo2xj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5854/neptuneam6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Sorry I'm taking so long with these. Been rather busy with my senior thesis storyboard and character design class. I hope to have some variety of medias studies soon. Getting bored with pencil.

10-12-2006, 10:21 AM
Hey Womball,

first of all sorry for the double post (donnow what happened here :eek: )

I wanted to say your 3D muscle model is looking lighty impressive
your torso drawings are quite good too

hope to see more of this soon :)

10-12-2006, 10:38 AM
oooh more 2d - did you have your sketchbook down on the table or so while drawing? They seem a tad skewed in the same direction [I know I skew things when my notebook's down]...nice job though :), good to see a fellow modeler dabbing in 2d...

10-12-2006, 11:03 AM
You hit the nail on the head intervain! Was working on it at my job (computer lab monitor) on it, so I didn't have a tilted surface to work with. Also I'm not sure if conte will rub off on in a sketchbook. If it rubs off like pencil, that its not to bad than and I will explore that for the first time since freshman year.

I do have a sketchbook of figure drawing I may upload soon, I have been doing that once a week for a class.

Thanks for the compliment NR43. I hope to do more soon, and my XSI work is starting to progress! Haven't quite figured out HDR lighting yet though.

10-13-2006, 06:06 PM
Hey, Womball. Thanks for the comments and suggestions in my thread, really appreciated. Nice to see you doing some drawings. Try being more loose. You should try drawing only gestures, a great exercise, you know that. See if you can catch the form with as little lines as possible and without any shading. Looking forward to that if you decide to try it :thumbsup:

10-18-2006, 06:22 AM

Getting a better hang of XSI. Its still tough. And it seems like my displacement map constantly needs to be adjusted (just not quite there yet). I haven't modeled the eyes yet.

10-18-2006, 07:01 AM
Your model is really amazing, Nathan. Bump and displacement are always tricky. If you haven't, read Leigh Van Der Byl's essays in the Texturing and Surfacing Forum. It's called Texturing for Dummies and should be a requirement for anyone texturing.

I, too, have a tendency to skew my figures which is why I do a light drawing and then darken. What I love seeing is all the different approaches to the torsos. I giggled when you said you were taking so long...sheesh...I'm a downright snail.


10-19-2006, 06:14 AM
Thanks for the suggestion and compliment Cris! I have read that guide and its very informative. I may have to read it again for a refresher soon though. It would be cool to see what Leigh thinks about the study, (hint hint Rebeccak, ;-) ) One thing that is kind of bothersome is that, at zbrushcentral their doesn't seem to be much support for it. Lots of views, but not much has been said about it, except by Art4med (very helpful crits). I wonder if its because its a naked male that isn't musclebound, a monster, or a woman? People seem to prefer that type of model, but I wanted to try something different. Anyway I hope to take the finished model to plugged thread level if possible. Maybe that's asking a bit much, but I think its good to have a high goal to reach for. If not that very close, so I have a strong piece for my portfolio.

As for slowness, 4 months on one model! I'm sure prospective employeers won't like that! I kind of feel like I should be able to knock these out really quickly, so I have a chance to be noticed. Although I'm not sure how much craftsmanship is valued, they kept knocking it in my head to work on craftsmanship. I took that to heart.

Anyway after this long mumbling (I need to stop this), I might have to take a few of your workshops. I would love to become strong in 2d art someday. But this would have to be after college. Its getting rather intense again, and luckily I only have one more semester after this left.

10-19-2006, 06:48 AM
Heh...yeah, I know what you mean, Nathan. Sometimes it does feel that sites or areas of forums gravitate to one thing or another. It can be disheartening if you let it...but I don't see you as being one easily discouraged. I'm glad to see your work here.


10-19-2006, 12:37 PM
I will definitely complete this, just its matter of when. :-)

Btw I have my main character for my senior thesis almost completely modeled. I think I will post it here, even though its not by any means accurate anatomy. Toon anatomy! :-) The second character will need more crits though, I think, since I haven't successfully modeled a female character yet in cg. And this one has tentacle legs.

10-19-2006, 03:21 PM
Hey, Womball,

That's a really interesting render and things are improving all the time - I'm curious as to your comment regarding Leigh, are you asking me to contact her? Just a bit confused is all. :) Let me know. ;)

10-19-2006, 03:26 PM
Yes I am and she is an XSI user as well. She might know some really cool tricks.

10-19-2006, 04:19 PM
oooh it really is improving considerably every time you render it out! I bet the displacement must be a pain - zbrush to xsi never worked well for me :( Keep it up!

10-20-2006, 07:08 AM
Hi Nathan!
That head looks nice now... How is XSI compared to Maya? I tried to learn a few times, but I kept having this mental block, bcos I am so used to working in Maya... I guess it is a great package... unusual interface, though..

I agree with razz about drawing gestures.. I think u should do a lot of quick poses.. spend some time with your sketch pad at the beach or the bus-stand.. try to define a pose with a single stroke, if possible!.. it will help u get nice body-language into your figures. Great start, though!:thumbsup:

10-22-2006, 12:53 PM
Okay you have successfully summoned me... but I am not entirely sure what tricks you're after?

Looking at your last render there, a few thoughts pop to mind. Your texture looks quite low res, the reflection/spec is perhaps a little high, and your displacement map suffers from quite an undefined lumpiness. I think you need to address your displacement map first. I am not the greatest ZBrush artist in the world so I can't offer too much advice in that regard, but what I'd suggest is simply to continue working to refine the details in it further. Some parts of it, especially on the back, also seem to be coming through quite sharply and personally I think the veins should be a little finer.

Hope this helps. If you have any XSI-specific questions, fire away and I'll see what I can do to help :)

10-22-2006, 03:34 PM
Hehe, I summon Leigh to attack! Sounds like something out of Final Fantasy series.

One thing that would interest me is how to make a slime covering over the whole body. This would be the covering that coats all of the muscles. My textures range from 2k to 3k right now.

The displacement map is something I am going to keep attacking. Does XSi support 32 bit displacement maps? I would think this would produce much crisper results.

The veins might not be able to go much smaller. If I get a new computer soon, I will see what I can do. But currently I'm capped out at 1.5 million polys in zbrush. So I think I'm pushing the max detail for now. :-(

My normal map is kind of weak. What setting should be adjusted to make it more intense? I'm using a bump map generator to control it, since the XSI normal map node did nothing when plugged into the material and SSS node. Are bump maps via zbump or normal maps more accurate for details?

HDR produces strange results if I use an environment pass render setup. Sometime this happens even with the half sphere setup. I will get strong lighting from the bottom, but heavy shadows on the top, no matter what texture I use or orientation.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out!

10-22-2006, 07:14 PM
One thing that would interest me is how to make a slime covering over the whole body. This would be the covering that coats all of the muscles. My textures range from 2k to 3k right now.

I'd use reflection mapping for that. Anything that needs to appear wet or slimey is usually best accomplished with reflectivity.

The displacement map is something I am going to keep attacking. Does XSi support 32 bit displacement maps? I would think this would produce much crisper results.

To be honest, I am not sure! I haven't been in XSI for a while now, admittedly. Been very busy in Maya for most of this year and due to moving around the world I've not had time to do any XSI'ing at home. But do you not mean 16-bits per channel, instead of 32?

The veins might not be able to go much smaller. If I get a new computer soon, I will see what I can do. But currently I'm capped out at 1.5 million polys in zbrush. So I think I'm pushing the max detail for now. :-(


My normal map is kind of weak. What setting should be adjusted to make it more intense? I'm using a bump map generator to control it, since the XSI normal map node did nothing when plugged into the material and SSS node. Are bump maps via zbump or normal maps more accurate for details?

I've never worked with normal maps in XSI, so I'm afraid I can't offer much advice here. I'd recommend you post this question in the XSI forum, where I am sure someone will be able to help you :)

HDR produces strange results if I use an environment pass render setup. Sometime this happens even with the half sphere setup. I will get strong lighting from the bottom, but heavy shadows on the top, no matter what texture I use or orientation.

Thanks again for taking the time to help out!

That is a little odd. Are you sure you don't have any default lights on in the scene that may be causing this?

10-27-2006, 05:46 AM
A minor update, but I did texture some eyes! I managed to overcome my fear of the eye veins and paint the texture.I actually broke out into heavy sweat while working on it, and had to stop and dry off. It is almost a phobic fear of it, I think. I haven't touched up the displacement map yet, or normal map, so its still needs some work.

And yes Leigh, 32 bit displacement. Will the maps be read properly?


10-28-2006, 01:15 AM
Hi...Womball ..:thumbsup:

LOL...:scream: :scream: ....Your doing a flayed person, and you break out in a cold sweet over a couple of bloodshot eyes ...LOL :scream: :) ...I can't stop laughing..:)
You said something on my thread about getting a flat or hollow side when you tried Zshere's.
Seemes to me that I just read where someone else was having the same problem.
I think the answer was to just cap the flat side with another Z sphere.
That might be a totally different problem than the one you described..don't know, but thought it worth mentioning, just in case....Can also turn off DRAW, and turn on MOVE, to strech it out.
I am far from the one to listin to though, when it comes to Z BRUSH...LOL...Still trying to figure it out...great but complecated program. Just trying to be helpful here...you never know...:)
KEEP GOING ..Womball, and thanks for the great feedback on my thread....I haven't tried the masking funtion that you just mentioned on my thread yet, but might give it a shot in the morning....THANKS for the tip...:thumbsup:

11-04-2006, 11:46 PM
I'm weird like that Glen! Anywho I will see if I can get a new render up today. I have a new shader to test out too, on the zbrush model (I'm refining the displacement map currently). Any suggestions for poses and expressions are more than welcome! And I think I may try to submit this to Expose 5 when its done. I hope its done by than, I really am trying to take this to a new level for me.

11-05-2006, 03:39 AM

Reworked eyes and material. I'm current working on the displacement and color maps, refining them.

11-10-2006, 02:40 AM
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3428/iris2512tm2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Here is the eyeball texture I made. I found a sclera photo online and manually painted the iris in GIMP. If you have any suggestions for it let me know!
And here is a full body render in XSI. Its been awhile since last one.

http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/6297/fullbodyve8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Still open to suggestions for the pose and expression. I'm trying to make him seem like he's alive! I was thinking of him posing in a thinking pose, but maybe a lively thinking pose if possible. Also not sure where he should be either. Musuem, nursery school, playground?

Suggestions for the eye texture are more than welcome as well! I was thinking about writing my name in the veins so that is appears as eye veins on the final render! Not sure how to do that convincingly though.

11-13-2006, 04:10 PM
HI Womball,

someone's sent me some images from this (http://www.freedom-of-teach.com/products/prod_detail.php?sect=products&pid=det_anafig2) site and I thought you might be interested :) Perhaps you've already come across those resin models but all the same!
Looking forward to more renders :)

11-15-2006, 08:09 AM
Hi Nathan,

Great work so far. Nice to see your muscle man with texture. He looks like he's plotting something, though, which makes me nervous. :surprised

Nice work on the torso studies, too. Looking forward to seeing more work from you. :)


11-18-2006, 09:50 PM
Here are a few timed figure drawing pieces. My sketchbook is kind of funky, has a cool grain to it. Most of these are 1 minute sketches, 5 minute sketches, and 1 10 minute clunker. The date and time should be on the sketches, hopefully they showed up in the scans. The more detailed ones are usually 5 minutes.

I thought the inverted color looked cool. It might be annoying though. Depends on taste I guess. I'm open to suggestions for future drawings, in terms of technique.

11-19-2006, 03:13 AM
hi Womball

have been following your work for a while, lots of great stuff, but that model is awesome, cann't image the amount of work involved to get it so well detailed.:thumbsup: don't know much about 3d but it must take forever to render.

as for a pose have you thought about an off balance one( so that if someone were to acually stop in that pose they would fall over or down?) mid stride, mid jump this would suggest movement and inturn show aliveness( LOL new word i think) just a thought


11-19-2006, 03:41 PM
Hi Womball,

There is a great drawing tutorial I recommend checking out here (http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60753). Just found it yesterday, and it's great. :)

11-19-2006, 04:39 PM
Excellent read rebeccak! I will see if I can incorpate more of those techiniques in my drawings. Thanks for stopping by! I'm open to pose suggestions from you too, ;-)

I like the idea of the unbalanced pose fatebringer! I will test that out soon hopefully. Thanks for the kind words. I'm having fun with the project so its not to tedius. The renders aren't too bad, my new computer is really fast. However I now have a virus and that has been slowing things down a bit. :-(

11-19-2006, 08:48 PM

[url="http://imageshack.us/"]http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/6297/fullbodyve8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)


Great update long time I've not enter your thread.
Realy great skin material, and impressive modeling...

about the sketches...
good sense of motion, I can feel the real motion in some sketches, like the are trully moving on paper. I like how you draw a static figure too, its very important to show the correct figure in fast sketch without less body deformation and more good body proportion...
Good Luck....

11-21-2006, 05:22 AM
Thanks for the kind words Greatto!

Here's an update to the leg proportions and some material reworked.


11-22-2006, 07:08 PM
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/8456/benmillersstudy1he3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

First Ben Miller study in pencil.

11-23-2006, 08:20 PM
Sup Womball

many thanks for stopping in by my thread.

There is sure progress throughout your work, and it's becoming more solid. Building that model is a great way to learn, been yearning to do one of those myself.

On your line: clean it up a little. If at any point it is even slightly possible that your lines look like hair, erase them and redraw! A line goes from point A to point B - decide where point A is and where point B is and how it will go about getting from the one to the other. Each line needs to say something different, instead of many lines saying one thing, like "edge of bicep." Contemplate each line you are drawing and if you can;t figure out why you need to draw it then don't draw it! Line is the most powerful element of composition, imho, don't underestimate it.

Solid progression, keep it up and don't forget to have fun!

- d.

11-25-2006, 09:44 PM
Woohoo! Awesome advice. I hope to achieve these clean lines hopefully before long. It wasn't until recently that I was told that feathering is NOT the greatest technique. So I have break off close to 19 years of feathering habit. Yuck! Never really thought about thinking about where to put each line. It may slow down the drawing process, but if done right I could see improvement in my overall quality. Although I think feathering has a use in the building up and over composistion stage. I may be wrong in there.

11-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Agreed with Demented here. I could also add about doing only linework studies. No shading at all. See if you can describe the form, the pose only with the line. One great thing to know here is atmospheric perspective. You can reach really awesome results with just using it and doing only linework. See Vilppu's work for example, he always does the atmospheric perspective, only you might not see it if you don't know about it. Oh, and really nice way to get some shadows or stuff on the figure is to use some watercolors or ink. Again, see Vilppu's works.
Damn, I should have told this to myself...

11-29-2006, 02:00 PM
Hi Womball,

Be sure to check out these really great links: :)

If You Want to Draw Figures - READ THIS: Frank Reilly Method of Figure Drawing (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=433593)

Lots of incredibly useful info. there.

12-01-2006, 06:33 AM
Maybe the villipu DVD's can be Hannukah presents. :-) There are quite a few that look really good like, especially the atmospheric prospective and gestural drawings. New update to my anatomy study in my portfolio! Using a plastalina shader too. Its where I'm at now with the displacement map, I'm keeping the process pretty open, so I can make pretty dramatic changes. Although I'm getting much closer than before, I'm going to rig soon too. Hopefully in the next few weeks, if I have time.

12-01-2006, 08:04 AM
hey nathan!

-you got some nice work here. your 3d anatomical model i great, but try toning down the speculare. it might help us other a bit, to actually see your fine model.


12-04-2006, 01:15 PM

Not sure if this is necessary or not, but here is the gallery update. I think this is easier to see the structures. Thanks for the kind words abyss133, it means a lot coming from you. Your lionhead model was awesome!

12-04-2006, 04:49 PM
Awesomeness :thumbsup:
It's been really long time since I saw your skinned guy and I must say it's a fantastic progress. I suppose you already seen the waxes (http://forums.cgsociety.org/www.flickr.com/photos/numlok/sets/670488/) from La Specola in Florens. They remind me a lot of this one and maybe you could get som inspiration from it.
This one has a wonderful expression I think:
http://static.flickr.com/23/29863123_385432cac8.jpg (http://static.flickr.com/23/29863123_385432cac8.jpg?v=0)
Looking forward to see your progress on this. :)

12-05-2006, 04:47 AM
Hey Gunila. Thanks for the nice words. Those are really cool, similar to what color i'm going for too. Here's a material update (the displacement map is acting warky, so that's why you see seams). I'm starting to get the slimy look I think too. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/newlighting2.jpg

12-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Yeah - nice update! You may want to check out the work of johnnymaster in the ongoing challenge (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=413297). He's done some fantastic things with rain in a girls face, maybe you could use some of his technique for the slime?
Anyway, you're progressing well with it, maybe some more glossiness could make it even slimier. :thumbsup:

12-06-2006, 04:35 PM
Truly nice update, Womball! Ever thought of redoing this project from scratch? Just to see how better you've got. I used to do this when I was a 3D guy. Doesn't it seem that you can do it better now? Hey, and saw THIS (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=432320&page=1&pp=15)? Worth looking!

12-06-2006, 04:49 PM
Truly nice update, Womball! Ever thought of redoing this project from scratch? Just to see how better you've got. I used to do this when I was a 3D guy. Doesn't it seem that you can do it better now? Hey, and saw THIS (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=432320&page=1&pp=15)? Worth looking!

Hehe, I have been toying with that thought. Blender is getting quite powerful again. It now seems I can paint displacement maps directly in the program and bake them. And I could work in layers. HDRI lighting works as well, so I will have to post up an update of my skinless portrait soon. I'm going to use that to test out how to approach builiding that complex of a model.But in the meantime, 5 ish months left to finish up and render out a 5 minute animation. ;-) I'm going nuts trying to finish up my other projects. I feel like I'm going to fail everything, but I have this feeling everytime at crunch time. I usually do much better than I expect, meaning I don't fail.

I'm going to finish up this study and add it to my portfolio though. There is not much more I can do with it. Besides the upcoming GI tests and rigging. :-) I love rendering.

@gunilla- I posted in his thread, hopefully I can learn something new. And he is now more glossy.

12-09-2006, 06:37 AM

How about this for gloss? I don't think its too heavy. There is some kind of wet membrane that covers the muscles, not sure what it is called though.

12-09-2006, 10:48 AM
Hi Nathan... Nice update... Are u using a layered shader or something for the gloss?.. folks usually use a different shader (with just the specular) on top of the original to get the wet feel.. Is that what you did?

btw, are you doing anything for the OFDW?

12-09-2006, 01:08 PM

looks great to me:thumbsup:


12-12-2006, 10:41 PM
Thanks for the kind words!

@anandpg - Its a subsurface skin shader, which has 2 layers of specular control plus reflectivity. The effect is furthed increased with an HDRI mapped to a half dome. There is also Ambient Occulusion plugged into the material node which has a reflective property.

@fatebringer - thank you. I'm still not satisfied with the displacement map or color map yet. So more updates in the near future, I think.

12-14-2006, 03:14 PM
Nice update on the wetness! And I don't think it's to much at all. He's beginning to get very fleshy :)

01-14-2007, 12:24 PM
I am back from my trip to Israel! Beautiful country and very good food. I want to live there some day and establish an animation studio (new dream). I have tons of photos from it, however I don't think they really relate to anatomy. :-( Maybe I should have taken photos of this one soldier girls tuckus, and try to get her to pose nude (for art purposes), but I have a feeling that would result in an arse kicking. :thumbsup:

I want to try to finish the anatomy study by February, which will be a challenge with the amount of work I have to do to catch up on my senior thesis.

01-14-2007, 03:10 PM
LOL Nathan - glad you didn't try to make a model out of that soldier - I'm sure she would have showed you who's boss ;)
I bet they had awesome food in Isreael - yum *salivates*... oh you can squeeze in a photo or 2 can't you?! *nudge*

Good to hear you're back and looking forward to more skinless humans :scream:

01-14-2007, 05:10 PM
Hey Nathan! welcome back!.. and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!:scream: Photos please!!... and yeah, more skinless humans!... no.. do a quadruped, next.. will be exiting.

01-23-2007, 06:29 PM

2nd Temple ruins I think

Me at the wailing wall, I didn't take this picture, ;-)


Dome of the rock (Why must it be located at the holiest part of the Temple?)


Sidewalk art




Super bagels?


01-23-2007, 09:15 PM
Nice pictures Nathan! :) I'm assuming you're in the red jacket and not the person literally AT the Wailing Wall (with back turned)? Sorry if that seems like a stupid question, I am a literal person. :)

Great to see your pics!

01-23-2007, 09:56 PM
Yep. I'm not the black hatter either or the bagels! Thanks for the kind words. I didn't get much time for drawing there, we had to wake up at 6 am and were traveling until about 10 pm. After that was some heavy partying and trying to wake up on time. Not much freetime to sit and observe the land. I wish i had my camera on me more often I missed some great shots at Tsfat and at a kibbutz. The camera itself is about a 1 pound or more, so it does get heavy afterawhile. I did do a portait of a person and a from my imagination lying down man.

01-23-2007, 10:00 PM
or the bagels!
Hahahahaha! :)

01-23-2007, 10:40 PM
or the bagels!

what?! And I was so convinced I got you spotted on that cart there - third from the guy, on top of the pile ;)

my gosh I've spent my entire University life on bagels [cheep and stuffing] back in Krakow [or Cracow as the anglo-saxons would have it ;)] - good times - this picture makes me hungry ;) [well they sure have some good ones in Montreal!]
Nice to finally put the face to that obnoxious persona - strangely enough you look less dangerous than you sound LOL :thumbsup::scream:

01-23-2007, 11:20 PM
That's not good! I should look fierce so I can cause small children and beggars to explode from fright. Employers love angry faces as well. ;-) I wish I spoke Hebrew better so I could have heckled this guy for a super bagel. There are a lot more pictures, taken from others, but they are on facebook. I rode a camel there too and spent New Years Eve in a tent in the Negev desert.

02-13-2007, 06:19 PM
I'm still alive! Been very busy on my senior thesis animation due this May. Its going to be about 3 minutes. I'm not sure where I should post the WIP for it, since its definetly not anatomy. I broke quite a few rules for the cartoony style. :-)

I have a new book which has images of cadavers dissected for usage. Its called Color Atlas of Anatomy:A Photographic Study of the Human Body. I haven't really had time do to anything really significant, but I have begun rigging.

I would like to practice some 30 minute plus figure drawings, are there any figures session here that I could use? I have seen some of dancers drawn before.

02-13-2007, 07:13 PM
Hey hey,

There is tons of reference posted here:

I5 Minute Sketchathon - Thread 1: Reference (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=199&t=298699&page=1&pp=15)

I've been using it a lot lately for 30 min studies. :) Feel free to post your anim. stuff here, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. :)

02-13-2007, 09:04 PM
There is a link in my signature now. :-) Bright yellow too.

02-14-2007, 10:53 AM
Hey Nathan! thanks for sharing the photos!... and goodluck with your thesis!:thumbsup:

02-19-2007, 06:49 PM
This week is going to be tough since I have a lot of projects due this week. So next week I may have time to sculpt the demon with the monsther face in its stomach. Or create a creepy ghoul sculpt, non rigged (for once).

03-02-2007, 02:32 AM
An update to the anatomy study, lots of new image over here.

I'm going to start a project for my art of africa class. I would like to model a female african tribal woman. Where are good places to look for references?


03-02-2007, 07:09 PM
Some test renders with my new HDRI light!

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/6169/fancyrenderheadrx7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/5156/frontbeautycm7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8154/sidebeautyviewtz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5962/fancybackeb6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

03-02-2007, 07:46 PM
Hey - nice updates! This guy is just getting better and better... he's beginning to look a lot like the real thing. Have you seen this one (http://individual.utoronto.ca/twix/anatomy/images/skinnedman.jpg)? Quite similar style - great work!

03-02-2007, 07:51 PM
ehem - his expression made me burst out laughing! LOL how can the man be smiling in this state?! ;) Good job, he does look slimey for sure! I think the texture might do with more yellows in it, as well as reds, feels a little too uniform.

keep it up! I guess the deadline's closing in?

03-02-2007, 09:52 PM
ehem - his expression made me burst out laughing! LOL how can the man be smiling in this state?! ;) Good job, he does look slimey for sure! I think the texture might do with more yellows in it, as well as reds, feels a little too uniform.

keep it up! I guess the deadline's closing in?

No deadline on this sucker, he's for fun. There is a deadline closing on on my senior thesis, and one on this new project I will start; An African female probably from a Rainforest tribe. I'm going to be starting collecting resources soon for it. So any tips will be highly appreciated. He might be put on hold for awhile and if not finished before May 15th, given a zbrush 3.0 treatment. :-)

What types of yellows and red? I do like the suggestion.

Thanks for the picture and kind words Gunilla! I have been trying to figure out how to present him. He is definetly going to be in a greenish room because of complimentary colors and posed of course. Also can you see the underlying veins in the muscle? I could do this too with my shader.

03-03-2007, 09:11 AM
You've spend a lot of time on that anatomical figure. Go start that tribe woman you're talking about!! :D

03-03-2007, 06:01 PM
Gathering a ton of Flickr references! Although I'm having trouble find full body shots, I might model a woman who doesn't wear a bra, culturally. Also there is such a huge variety of clothing its going to be hard what to decide on. I don't like scarfication so that eliminates some styles.

03-04-2007, 05:23 PM
This is about 3 hours of modelling (lots of topology tweaks). I'm thinking about removing the ears and trying again to make a female ear.I didn't get all of the features of the ear in the mesh. She will be pretty when I'm done with her. :-) Tear her apart!

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6519/secondrenderec6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1897/frontviewwires1sh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1913/sideviewwires1fd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

As for muscle rigging, I bought a dvd for that. But its more for full characters than all bones and muscles.

03-05-2007, 05:56 AM

Which side render do you think shows more of the form?

I put in another 30 minutes today. Removed ears, add some geometry around the ear area for easier attachment so now there are 2 edgeloops there. The jaw was thinned down and another edge loop was added for definition. The eyes were scaled width wise and place an eye lenght apart. Lips were fixed somewhat (hardest part of the face). Nose is more bulbous and thinner and shape of skull is more aparent, I think.

Right now I'm leaning toward making this Bodi tribal woman, they have beads on all of their hair and wear lots of beads.

03-05-2007, 06:01 AM

From the side view, it looks like the face is unusually long with the lower lip protruding downward a bit awkwardly. There also seems to be an indendation running from the ear to the brow that looks as though the head has a scar - so you might want to try to smooth that out a bit. What reference are you using and what are you aiming for with this character? Eg, who is this supposed to be, and how much do you want to stylize?

03-05-2007, 06:06 AM
Its going to be fairly realistic, its simpler that way. I'm doing enough stylization with my aniamation. I'm using images of african woman from flikr for reference. Unfortunately they aren't always in the right pose. The scar on her ridge is an extra edge loop for control of the ear. I may reduce some geometry there, although I want to build the ear first.

The goal is a african tribal woman in a traditional african pose. I'm striving for a month or less here. I dunno if I can make that, but I want to push myself.

03-05-2007, 06:11 AM
Hmm - I think one thing that's really going to help you to see form in a more refined way is drawing traditionally and / or digitally - I think you naturally stylize the form and it's not clear whether it's deliberate or not. The best way to control perception is by drawing more and really forcing yourself to really look at things and to analyze form. I know you did some sketches previously, but I think if you did more drawings that would really help to increase your modeling ability. Just mho. :)

03-05-2007, 06:14 AM
What do you suggest I draw? African woman? I bought a Girardi COmplete guide to drawing book. He has a nice style of hatching and seems to know the forms well.

03-05-2007, 06:20 AM
Do eeeet! :)

03-05-2007, 06:46 AM
I expect some feedback from you, Detective Beka Kimble.

03-20-2007, 01:03 AM
http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1702/34thveiwvx1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6223/frontviewwiresig0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/5383/sideviewwiresqv7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/552/backviewwiresno2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Had some more time to model. Haven't done the drawings yet, but I will do some woman studies for help with understanding the forms more. The head is referenced quite a bit, but the body is just based on anatomy knowledge. I intend to go in and clean the forms up with references, once I find them.

03-20-2007, 01:11 AM
Some updated headshots as well.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/2206/frontrender4lv4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7232/siderender4xz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This was an earlier head version with a different nose and head shape.
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9040/sideview4ep6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

03-20-2007, 01:33 AM
Hi Womball, just thought I'd jump in and say hi.
The latest update is looking much better. What stands out to me is that her face looks a little flat. Can I suggest looking up some skull reference to see just how much the human skull comes forward at the center of the face?

Here is a top view of a skull http://www.glendale.edu/skull/homo_sapien/top.htm
Have a look at how forward the brow comes forward in the center and slants back towards the occular cavities.
The site has more skulls from a wide range of apes, monkeys and homosapiens. http://www.glendale.edu/skull/index.htm
Unfortunately they don't mention ethnic background of each skull which would help you with modelling an african woman, but the reference is still good. Can you post the whatever reference you are working with to give better feedback?
Hope that was helpfull, keep up the good work.

03-20-2007, 04:32 AM

The model so far has a bit of a mushy look to it, as though the person is made of plastic instead of flesh and bone. I think perhaps try to have a bit more sharpness at certain corners, and try to remove the dents in the form. I would also re-evaluate the proportions of the face, the eyes should fall about in the middle of the head - atm they are looking a bit high. Check out the download section of www.freedomofteach.com, there are great orthographic / anatomical images for image planes / reference.

Hope to see updates! :)

03-20-2007, 04:40 AM
Oh yeah. DRAW!!! :)

03-20-2007, 05:08 AM
My references are on flickr, can you hotlink from that site legally? Or does that violate some rule?

Downloaded the references. :-)

Thanks for stopping by plunq!

03-20-2007, 01:45 PM
My references are on flickr, can you hotlink from that site legally? Or does that violate some rule?
I think as long as you just post the URL (and not an inline image) it's fine.

03-21-2007, 12:30 AM
Hey Womball - nice to see you going for 3d :) I agree with Rebeccak - drawing helps :D Also using roto images does... jut a generic human will do - for side and frong to get the proportions down...

plunq is right about the sloping features... I like to simplify it to a triangle created by the ears and the nose tip - just look at the model from top and bottom and make sure it is resembling a triangle :)
also - remember that as the cheeks are sloping towards the ears so are the and the eyes - so when you look at your mouth from underneath it should be almost triangular in shape and not flat in the middle and sloping just at the edges - like yours is now. ... it's sloping from the middle outwards continually :)

the eyes are usually in the middle of the head - that means that the cranial part will be larger than yours :)

well I've made this picture with an old face I had lying around - maybe it'll help a bit :) - or not :D
keep working and draw ;) [had to say it LOL]

it's like Sherlock Holmes once said - 'you see, Watson, but you do not observe'.. it's hard to break the habit I know, believe you me! We often don't look at detail when doing stuff because we think we know what it should look like... we work from memory instead of making sure what the lines are actually like ...


and I'd like to finish with a question - I remember u using a shader in Zbrush which shows the crevices with an ambient occlusion sort of effect - could you point me to it or sell any info about where I might get that little ditty?! cheers

03-21-2007, 02:07 AM
womball - great to see the energy you put into your work. You might want to look at Artistic Anatomy by Richter - very good comprehensive anatomy book - also one of my favorites - Cyclopedia Anatomicae


03-27-2007, 07:59 AM
This is what I have been up to the last yearish. Although its been mainly redeveloping the plot close to a million times. :-( Plus the invisible parts aren't very interesting to see like rigging and skinning. Very time consuming tasks although I probably have spent more time in the idea phase than in actual production. But I do have a good arguement for this, first cg short time. :-) 33% of animation is done.

XSI quicky render, I'm shooting for at least this quality of render.

Some variations on the suit open to suggestions for details too. I was thinking ducktape...



03-27-2007, 10:08 PM
great thread you have here, I'm seeing you improve :D

03-28-2007, 09:00 PM
Welcome to the thread TrendIsDead! Thanks for the kind words.

I started up a probably a dumb idea but to get experience with the wacom tablet I decided to do this:

I intend to draw sketches and paintings based on friends on myspace (I'm addicted, I know it sucks) I have. Of course the references I have are pretty bad, but experience is experience?

03-30-2007, 05:30 PM
Anybody have suggestions for the color of the suit? Do you like any combination?

03-31-2007, 11:23 PM
Here's one of the photos I'm trying to copy from myspace. I'm getting the consent of each person to post their work here so her I go! I'm not tracing but drawing by eye. I keep a window open of the original picture in Photoshop and create a new pic the same size and draw observing the original. I often draw super zoomed in since I can see the curves much more clearly, I do this in real life by trying to move my face closely to the opject I'm trying to depict.

This is the 3rd in a series I'm doing, which will probably be 50 before I calling it quits, or to start too charge. ;-)

The original

Rough Lines

Cleanup plus beginning of shading.

I'm trying to master the wacom board and get a strong grasp of drawing this way.

04-01-2007, 12:01 AM
Colours: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/mayaman2/suitcolors2.jpg seems nice. A little retroish, not sure on the pants, but the rest rolls well.

Good sketch. I'm not sure about letting the eyebrow hit that bit of hair to make a continuous line like that -- it's a little weird.

I've been drawing by eye on the tablet a lot lately as well, it seems effective (hard to tell with me mind you >.<). So easy to grab ref and sketch for a few minutes :)

04-01-2007, 12:02 AM
Good start womball. 50 pieces? Probably take about a year?

The fingers are a bit too large at the moment, other proportions are generally fine.

Happy journey!

04-01-2007, 05:22 AM
Like that sketch!

Some things come to mind:

you might wanna draw the left flap of the collar downward so it doesn't hide part of the face.

I think you've drawn her under a bigger angle than the original and you've been pretty consistent in your deviation (maybe it was intentional), apart from the left arm.
It's too narrow. take a look at the widest point of the upperarm in the original. pull an imaginary line upward and you should end up just behind the ear. In your sketch the forearm seems way too narrow compared to the upperarm. The width of her arm should be about 1/3 of the visible part of her torso. Just thinking out loud here :)

the wrinkles on the sleeve are longer

hope this helps

it's a great start for sure!

04-09-2007, 06:31 PM
Well, I'm quite a dummy with english so I decided to do this little overpainting for you, hoping you don't mind. Sere the attach.

Just my 2 cents,

04-09-2007, 10:37 PM
I won't be giving tips on painting with my level LOL - but all I can say is awesome that you're drawing! Looking forward to more 2d here :)

btw. how's the animation going?! good luck!

04-10-2007, 08:58 AM
Hi Nathan!.... great start on the drawing.... it will be exciting to see the progress of this one!:bounce:

04-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Here are a few more they are only about an hour each. I plan on going back to them and cleaning things up. I have done about 8-9 of them, but I still don't have permission from most of the people to post there photos up.



04-12-2007, 09:35 AM
Can I ask you how you "develop" the anatomic representation?
How do you start? Which steps do you take?

I need to understand which is your favourite "working process" in order to help you in the best way I know.

04-12-2007, 02:23 PM
I usually start with a sphere and layout guidelines. I'm trying different approaches for some of them, but I stilll do the sphere technique like you used in your paint over. The color one was the first time I have worked with masses though. I also like to work with layers as well. A layer for the colors, or grays, several layers for each refine pass of the line work.

04-12-2007, 02:38 PM
Heya Nathan,

Great to see you sketching - I highly recommend choosing some artistic black and white photos with great contrast and value range, and working in grayscale before tackling color. You're going to find that you have tremendous control with grayscale vs. just diving into color without an understanding of value. I was just talking with a friend of mine who works as a character designer - a lot of those guys work in grayscale first because they know that the form is the most important. Especially digitally, color can be applied later easily using blending modes.

04-13-2007, 02:19 AM
I'm doing quite a few gray scales. Just adding some color ones for spice. I do have some experience with mixing colors in acrylic and matching what I see with real paint. Since I'm doing a large amount of these, I will be coming back and creating new ones constantly refining my technique. I found that I can get really accurate with a single pixel brush for tiny areas. The line drawing presented will probably be a grayscale since the color and lighting is pretty bad.


04-13-2007, 06:32 AM
show us the greyscales :D

would love to see them!

04-13-2007, 01:51 PM
Heya Nathan, good to hear you're doing grayscales as well. :) You mentioned using a one pixel brush - I would actually recommend the opposite, which is to use a really large brush to block in the major areas of tone / value before going after the details to refine. The same is true for traditional painting - the main axiom being to work from large to small, and from major planes to smaller details. I even recommend zooming far out of your image initially and painting with a relatively large brush to block in the major areas of tone - you'll be surprised at what a few areas of differentiated tone in the right shapes will read at, say 50% of full size. Looking forward to more! :)

04-13-2007, 06:15 PM
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/8445/frontrender6dq4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/2324/siderender6lj0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2495/backrender6kq8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I have been working on this for awhile now, although I haven't had that much time due to the animation. The animation is about 75% animated (tons of stuff yet to do and I want to finish it in 2 weeks if possible, so probably not much sleep). Still no references for the body, but I used Antropus's or Antropi's portuguese hand tutorial for the hands.

04-13-2007, 06:50 PM
Hey Womball,

Good to see an update on the woman model. I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but is there any reason why you aren't using reference for your model? Every artist I know, myself included, always starts a project with plenty of reference before even one poly is created. Even after amassing a lot of reference, I find it is usually very helpfully to do some sketches of what I'm about to create using the reference as a guide. This way I can quickly figure out what I want to build and more importantly, how I'm going to build it with a few quick sketches. If you don't have time to sketch, at least you can do is pop some of your more useful orthographic references into your background and use that as a guide for your model.

Anyway, I don't want to sound all preachy or try to discourage you or anything. Keep the work coming!

04-13-2007, 07:04 PM
Yes there has been a reason and its shoddy one. I haven't activated my 3d.sk account and I have just been working on topology. I am debating if I should get the more expensive one since they provide texture maps which would be nicer than having to paint them. The face does have a lot of references used though.

04-13-2007, 07:31 PM
Well, that is a reason ;)
Even though you say that you are just working on the topology, it sounds like you are creating extra work for yourself. You're laying down topology now that will just have to get adjusted or rebuilt later when you do have reference. Personally I prefer nailing down the proportions and topology on the first pass with my reference handy so I don't have to revisit the whole model once it's already built. Anyway, that's all I will say about reference :)


04-13-2007, 09:33 PM
Got the okay from the model I painted! Woohoo! Still a WIP


04-15-2007, 01:04 AM

Some more work on this one. I'm having trouble with 3d sk since I was a member before of them however I can buy a new account since my account is already on record. I have emailed Robert of 3d.sk about it. I'm also going to sign up for the female reference page since I will be doing quite a few females in the upcoming months.

04-15-2007, 01:04 AM
P.S. Modelling wise, get your minds out of the gutter!

04-16-2007, 04:45 PM
P.S. Modelling wise, get your minds out of the gutter!

Huh,what? Oh, nice sketches. I'd like to see some more 3d too.

04-16-2007, 04:49 PM
"since I will be doing quite a few females in the upcoming months."

That could be misinterpreted by strange folk like Intervain. ;-)

04-16-2007, 04:52 PM
"since I will be doing quite a few females in the upcoming months."

That could be misinterpreted by strange folk like Intervain. ;-)

Nice, ha. I like being 12yrs old again.