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View Full Version : Microsoft expects Adobe to file antitrust suit: WSJ


RobertoOrtiz
06-02-2006, 03:28 PM
Quote:
"Microsoft Corp. said it expected Adobe Systems Inc. to file an antitrust suit in Europe after talks to use Adobe's technology broke down this week, according to the Wall Street Journal.

The two companies have been in discussions over the use of Adobe's Portable Document Format, or PDF, within Microsoft's Office suite of applications, the Journal reported, quoting Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith.

Adobe wants Microsoft to remove the feature and offer Adobe's technology separately for a fee. Microsoft has agreed to remove the feature, but is unwilling to charge for it, the Journal reported."

>>LINK<< (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060602/tc_nm/microsoft_adobe_dc;_ylt=AlF_67nMDE0RFy.b5vM9H6Os0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3cjE0b2MwBHNlYwM3Mzg)

-R

Tripdragon
06-02-2006, 03:48 PM
Bleh... Who need it then.. This will just make Microsoft make YET another proprietary format .. Weee now will need more convertors..

TroutMaskReplica
06-02-2006, 05:01 PM
open office exports to PDF. any document can be converted to PDF via the Mac OS X print dialog.

is adobe going to put a stop to that, too?

CADster
06-02-2006, 05:19 PM
mac played ball with adobe for the feature....

why should microsux be exempt ?

NRG-Alpha
06-02-2006, 05:27 PM
What I hopes comes from all of this animosity between the two companies is that Adobe ultimately doesn't support Microsoft's 'Windows Media Photo format'. This would be a nice blow to the format to say the least. I really hope it doesn't succeed.. Microsoft is becoming too much of a bully these days it seems. What a turn off.


Cheers,
NRG

mech7
06-02-2006, 05:29 PM
Isn't pdf an open format ? Open office uses it.. php you can generate pdf files strange :rolleyes:

tciny
06-02-2006, 08:39 PM
Bleh... Who need it then.. This will just make Microsoft make YET another proprietary format .. Weee now will need more convertors.. It's called metro and will be part of Windows Vista.

charleyc
06-02-2006, 08:57 PM
What I hopes comes from all of this animosity between the two companies is that Adobe ultimately doesn't support Microsoft's 'Windows Media Photo format'. This would be a nice blow to the format to say the least...

Oh yeah, that is what I want. It seems like foolishness to desire things that would hinder the ability to get work done based on a personal dislike for an extremely successful company.

tciny
06-02-2006, 09:07 PM
Theres been a discussion about it here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=361824). I think it'll help you understand why NRG_Alpha posted that. It's not about a personal dislike for the format but it's impact on the market.

charleyc
06-02-2006, 09:38 PM
Theres been a discussion about it here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=361824). I think it'll help you understand why NRG_Alpha posted that. It's not about a personal dislike for the format but it's impact on the market.

I am familiar with that thread. It has a whole lot of speculation in it. Besides, I couldn't care less if MS wants to create an image format or not. What I would care about is whether or not Photoshop would support a format that could end up being used by a lot of people. There are MANY image formats out there that I and a lot of others don't regularly use and I am in an industy that uses a lot of image formats. Most computer using people in the world don't even know many of them exist. So what does it matter if MS makes another one? It wont impact the market. To my knowledge, none of my clients care a bit about all this anti-corporate crap that is flooding these forums against MS, Adobe, Apple, (insert your highly successful company name here)... So why should I? They use the tools that get their job done and I want to do the same.

Als
06-03-2006, 03:21 AM
If you don't care why did you reply to this post?
Because you care about big corporations like microsoft, but not about people who post here?
So why are you defending corporate crap?
Most of the people do care, since decisions like this affect their lives.
Maybe they see it much biger then it is, but that is because some of them are burned already one way or the other.

If you so do not care why then complain about people complaining?
I do not understand.


Als

charleyc
06-03-2006, 07:13 AM
What I would care about is whether or not Photoshop would support a format that could end up being used by a lot of people.

Did you read my post? I too care about something that could have a direct impact on my work. And, because I don't feel like lashing out at major successful companies with pointless, baseless and typically paranoid comments just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean that I am defending them.

cah
06-03-2006, 08:00 AM
Well, this sucks. I used to design PDFs directly from CorelDRAW using the publish to PDF option. I really don't want to switch or buy another Adobe software just to create PDF files.

charleyc
06-03-2006, 03:46 PM
Well, this sucks. I used to design PDFs directly from CorelDRAW using the publish to PDF option. I really don't want to switch or buy another Adobe software just to create PDF files.

I am not so sure that this would effect any products that currently let you do it. I think the issue here has more to do with whether or not there will be any way to do it from MS Office products.

-Vormav-
06-03-2006, 08:49 PM
So much for PDF being an open standard, huh?

elfufu
06-04-2006, 02:23 AM
i hate pdfs anyways

Rezonance
06-04-2006, 04:13 AM
I dont get why Adobe would do this. It makes no sense why they would not have MS embrace a standard that they are establishing or how they can discriminate between MS and the hundreds of other companies products that all support PDF.

charleyc
06-04-2006, 07:36 AM
I dont get why Adobe would do this. It makes no sense why they would not have MS embrace a standard that they are establishing or how they can discriminate between MS and the hundreds of other companies products that all support PDF.


I imagine they would be upset in the knowledge that many people would buy Office and not shell out money to Adobe for the pdf product. As it is now, you have to buy a program that is either from Adobe or probably has some form of licensing agreement with them to create PDF's. If there wasn't such an agreement, or MS didn't offer an agreeable deal, Adobe might get upset. Remember, this news is 'predicting' a lawsuit by Adobe. I do not believe it is an accident that MS decided to run this and get their point of view out before Adobe could through a lawsuit. It is the great game of corporate dealings that most likely has a lot more to it that what we will ever get to know. To me it seems MS is trying to look like the good guy here in anticipation of something Adobe may do.

KayosIII
06-04-2006, 08:33 AM
Oh yeah, that is what I want. It seems like foolishness to desire things that would hinder the ability to get work done based on a personal dislike for an extremely successful company.

Its got nothing to do with personal dislike. It has everything to do with Vendor Lock-in and ultimately the price of said software products. The company in this instance charges several times for its products then it would in a compeditive market place.

A smart user will weigh up the short term gain against the long term impact of such a technology on the consumer.

This is especially pertinent with lossy file formats as it is extremely difficult to shift them without loosing quality... You can bet that the first tools that the consumer will be set up to store digital images in this format and only in this format. (professionals of course will know enough to keep their originals in non lossy formats) This pretty effectively locks them into tools that support said format. The company can now use this locked in user base to extort money from third parties to allow them to produce compatible tools and/or further exclude compeditors from the market place.

The less compeditive the market place is the more suppliers can charge for their wares and the less favourable they will make the conditions of use of their products.

It is not necessarily that the company in this case will act this way - but they have a history of acting in this way. And its not that others don't act in this way, The slow adoption of jpg2000 (very similar format technically that also questionable in terms of licensing) shows that I am not alone in being hesitant here.

Only a fool would concider the technical advantages without looking at the social impact.

KayosIII
06-04-2006, 08:47 AM
An interesting turn of events... I would like to hear Adobe's side of the story though. There is way too much not being said to pass judgement.

I think that the easiest thing for microsoft to would be just to buy adobe.

*ducks for cover*
hoard of stampeding mac users in 5... 4.... 3....

charleyc
06-04-2006, 05:19 PM
Its got nothing to do with personal dislike. It has everything to do with Vendor Lock-in and ultimately the price of said software products. The company in this instance charges several times for its products then it would in a competitive market place.

A smart user will weigh up the short term gain against the long term impact of such a technology on the consumer.

I simply do not agree with this line of thinking. There are dozens of image formats out there. Another one will not adversely effect the industry, it is logistically improbable. The only benefit there is for a new format is having production tools support it. There are .tif formats that Photoshop doesn't support. That is an annoying fact of limited development resources and a perception of the demand for certain file types, not a sign of how one company is trying to extort more money out of its users. A MS image format will most likely have the greatest impact on non cgi users. CGI users will know what formats work best for them and continue to use whatever those may be. But wouldn't it be annoying to have images sent to you by clients, who believe they are using a better technology, that you cannot open and manipulate within Photoshop because they were angry with MS? That is a foolish thing to want in my opinion.

PDF's are a bit different story as they are more than simply a file format. The common file formats exist within this wrapper that allows users to have a certain degree of interface and manipulation. It is more like a mini application than simply a file format. If I had developed it and marketed it, I too would want to get paid for it. I don't condemn Adobe for wanting to sell their product. If I were to condemn them based on what little, one sided information we have here, I would condemn them for apparently getting upset because MS will not try and aid them in selling their product. But we don't know the whole story, all we know so far is what MS has done and said.

Nichod
06-07-2006, 02:06 PM
I dont get why Adobe would do this. It makes no sense why they would not have MS embrace a standard that they are establishing or how they can discriminate between MS and the hundreds of other companies products that all support PDF.

Well said. Personally I feel this is pure idiocy. People are so anti-MS its pathetic. Really in this situation I think Adobe is in the wrong. PDF export is available for free all over the place...to have MS support it in export within Office isn't a big deal. And people would still buy Adobe PDF exporters for the increased flexibility in adjusting compression and security features. Besides its not like Adobe has bought out their only competition.

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