Challenge issues resolved here.

[Amalinde]

What about ents? they werent listed in the banned races but i think you probably meant for them to be.

[Soeren Nielsen]

Equinoxx pushed me, with whip and drugs, and the promise of many months sex to ask this question.

Does a race include one of the ancient ones, not that I am thinking about modeling either the balrog or lurker in the water (cause Im not even participating). But another ancient, one of your own design, does that count as a race ?

[Equinoxx]

no ents, they played an important part of the movie, sorry, tito forgot to add those to the list.

soeren, ancients are ok i guess, as long as they're original and didn't play a part in the movie, so a watercreature is cool, as long as it's different from the one in the movie, same for the balrog.

[ilasolomon]

That's really a CHALLENGE! ... hard one. I still have no clue :surprised I need some time... must read LOTR once again, carefully!
Ila

[ilasolomon]

so you say balrog-like creature is ok?! ;) I like this kinda stuff...

[Projectkmo]

Before I get all crazy...cause I have like 3 ideas....

My 1st, which I'd like to do is another Elvish race...but Winged...

I've always liked this image by Larry Elmore...

http://www.larryelmore.com/ArtGallery/AGB_W/AGB_WFiles/OnceWhileWalking.html

if thats not changed enough......

would a Minotaur be ok...or a Centaur? or are we to realy make up a totaly unheard of race...?

[Kirt]

What about 2D animation entries? Has this been dropped or can we enter with under the animation forum?

[lildragon]

The 2D animation has been dropped due to lack of entries, but you can post them under the general animation forum :)

salud

[Starv]

Just to be on the safe side;

Originally posted by lildragon
When you begin a new thread please use the following syntax

Races of Middle Earth - character/Object/Environment - [your name]

So that means that even though the challenge is called _races_ of middle earth, we can also model just objects, or environments from middle earth, without breaking any rules? :deal:

[Tellerve]

Doh Projectkmo already mentioned the minotaur, sigh, hmm :)

So, I'll mention again, are the races supposed to be entirely new races from our minds or can we do minotaurs, trolls, umber hulks, faeries, etc. etc.

Tellerve

[Projectkmo]

oh ya, that'd be cool if we could do an Enviroment too..... can we?

[Fasty]

Yes I was wondering if we can introduce races from other worlds... such as minotaurs, griffins etc. I mean, do we have to make it up completely?

[Joviex]

There are a few races within the Silmarillion that aren't on that list. Can you do one of those? Also a few mentioned in the LOTR series that didn't make that list?

I suppose I am asking, are all creatures not on the lsit also excluded.

Along that vein, would something like the Illuvatar be excluded? Melkor the Morgoth? Or any of the Vala? or any of the other Istari (not gandalf or sarumon) like Radgast?

Think someone asked about Balroggs? I take it no Gothmog :)

Environments? Say something along the lines of Mandos?

[mtmckinley]

What about classes?

For example, classes such as Wizard, Ranger, etc are used, all be it sparingly, in the books and films...

would doing something like a Merchant or Slaver or something of that nature be along with the criteria, or purely races as in "creatures"?

Thanks! :)

[Talos]

ummm.. Ring Wraiths a race??

:rolleyes:

[Aaron]

I'm probably going to have to turn in my geek card for asking this question ... but ... well, be nice to me ;)

I've never read the L.O.T.R ... I've read the first half of F.O.T.R, but when it got to Tom Bombadil I just couldn't keep reading ... but I don't want to start a flame war here, so we'll skip that.

Now, I love the movies, and I love this idea for a challenge, so I'd like to participate, but I'm not sure how I can make something like this fit in with the L.O.T.R universe. I don't really have a good feel for the universe.

So, my question: Is there a resource online where I could go to get a feel for the overall universe, and perhaps read up on some of the (abridged) history of Middle Earth? Or would I be best to just try and fit something into the world of the first two movies?

Thanks in advance,
Aaron

[AJ]

I shall take my idea from the unreleased first draft of the series... namely The Chicken Of The Rings... ;)

Or not... :D

[Projectkmo]

Aaron, maybe look here.....read up...and look at the links to the left...about characters, timeline etc... it might help you out.

http://fin.go.wifl.at.org/tables/html/historylotr.htm

[lildragon]

Originally posted by Talos
ummm.. Ring Wraiths a race??

:rolleyes:

Well no, but they're very dominant in the film, we're trying to bring new "characters" into the mix

salud

[lildragon]

Originally posted by mtmckinley
What about classes?

For example, classes such as Wizard, Ranger, etc are used, all be it sparingly, in the books and films...

would doing something like a Merchant or Slaver or something of that nature be along with the criteria, or purely races as in "creatures"?

Thanks! :)


Hmm ok people I'll have to ask you to put down you're D&D books and playsets, next thing you know yall will be asking about alignments :p heheh I think classes would be fine, they need a disposition, so a "muluk" ranger would be fine :)

salud

[Joviex]

Originally posted by lildragon
Well no, but they're very dominant in the film, we're trying to bring new "characters" into the mix

salud

ok, so only characters not in the movies? Never got an answer on my previous post......

[lildragon]

Oh sorry my bad, any characters/species that's not on the list is fine, tho you must keep in mind, it must be accompained by a background story as to how/why it inhabits middle earth

salud

[bentllama]

does good fur count as modelling?

[CGmonkey]

hmm to make a good character you need to have big insight in middle earth... GREAT! :D

Anyway, I really like this challenge! awesome! :)

Btw.. hmm... Is it okey to make a scene and a character?

[Joviex]

Originally posted by SubDimension
hmm to make a good character you need to have big insight in middle earth... GREAT! :D

Anyway, I really like this challenge! awesome! :)

Btw.. hmm... Is it okey to make a scene and a character?

Its not hard really. Basically all modernist fantasy derives from his vision. Beyond that there are a ton of LOTR, SIM and Hobbit links jsut search on google.

[Dave Black]

So Eruvata, the Valar, Morgoth, and all the rest from the Silmarilion are fine? Not entering, but there needs to be a bit of clearity.

-3DZ

:D

[Joviex]

Originally posted by 3DZealot
So Eruvata, the Valar, Morgoth, and all the rest from the Silmarilion are fine? Not entering, but there needs to be a bit of clearity.

-3DZ

:D

Yeah that is why I was asking. Would love to do Illuvatar contrasted against Mandos. Or even Osse comming up from the ocean. Or Manwe on his throne..... make for some exceptionally amazing visuals. Hope one day someone makes the Sil into about 5 movies.

[Dave Black]

:love:

amorano:

Exactly what I'm talking about!

though I really, really forgot how to spell their names. :D

I still think the Silmarilion is the best book Tolkien wrote. The characters in it are far more grand, as is the subtley and grandure of the tale.

I guess since they are not in the movies, it'd be ok...

But then we'd be obeying the letter of the law, if not the spirit.

I mean, the challenge seems to be "make a fantasy creature". Can't use any of tolkiens races. Seems pretty simple.

eh...I guess we shall see.

-3DZ

:D

[azazel]

Well worth waiting for it :thumbsup: :beer:

[-=InQ=-]

Races that are also Middle-Earth inhabitants, but not mentioned by lildragon:

AINUR - Maiar, Valar (including Balrogs, Blue Wizards, Wizards, Istari, Masters of Spirits etc.)

BARROW-WIGHTS

GIANTS

SKIN-CHANGERS

TOROGS

WEREWOLVES

OLOG-HAIS

WORMS

VAMPIRES

and even NAMELESS THINGS (!!!)
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things."

I will say nothing about divisions of elves (Avari, High Elves, Deep Elves, Sea Elves, Dark Elves, Eldar etcetc.), dwarves, men and dragons.

Considering, that Tolkien had been studying folklore and mythology all his life and gathered in his book all the creatures Europeans thank out for the last couple of thousands of years, it will be very difficult to invent something new ;)

Good luck people! :wavey:

[Laa-Yosh]

I have similar concerns to 3DZelaot; Tolkien has described Middle-Earth so well that there are hardly any possibilities to fit in any new creatures. Also, inserting generic fantasy races like minotaurs or gnomes into this world would be kinda hard and problematic...

On the other hand I completely understand that you'd like to have fresh concepts and ideas instead of copying the movie (for which there are many examples in the forums by now).

I'd however suggest to re-think this challenge and maybe change the rules a bit. I'd really like to see new approaches for balrogs, trolls, for Gollum (whom I've always imagined to be less human, although I really like PJ's version) and so on. What if you'd just not allow to use anything from the movies?

So what do you guys say?

[-=InQ=-]

yeah!

and why it isn't allowed to make a creatures from the upcoming third movie? Like, for example, giant spiders of Mordor or something. Maybe someone from Weta will see the result and think again on their own concept ;)

[Apt Pupil]

Hmmm, I am not sure, so I thought I would ask,

are ghosts (or in this case, tree spirits) allowed?

I want to do a tree spirit, but, even though it will be translucent, it will still look elvish, is this ok?

Note: to be a little more exact, there will be two of the same women, one melded into a tree (like from cathedral animation), and the other women will emerge from the melded tree women as a bodily spirit.

[lildragon]

Laa-Yosh you're right, what we're trying to accomplish is bringing something unique to Middle Earth, Master Tolkien is the god father of creatures such as this. So this is where the challenge comes in, we don't want x amount of Balrogs and Wizards it's to easy

And People keep in mind a Wizard is not a race it's a class, tho they have magical abilities, it can be thought with enough discipline.

Use your imaginations, you're in a field with untap horizons, think think

salud

[lildragon]

The rules are now updated, we're trying to get Weta's attention here, they'll be hiring soon ya know, you don't want to show them something they nailed down already ;)

Good Luck

[Apt Pupil]

damn it, spirits aren't allowed I see:sad: Roger that.

[bentllama]

WHAT ABOUT FUR?

I know textures arent required, and that mods cannot win, but is fur considered modeling? [since enough careful attention has to be put into it]

[lildragon]

ok how about this Bent, no simulation plugs for fur, ie SHave and Hair Cut or Shag: fur

Fur is always a tough call :shrug:

salud

[Faeroon]

**updated**
Nevermind, the problem has cleared itself :D

[p4b10]

mmhhh... what about Dark Elves, i'm doing some concepts and one of them is a dark elve...

i'm not sure if it will suit in contest rules...

http://www.iespana.es/mental/rome/c03.jpg

[Joviex]

Originally posted by polart
[B]mmhhh... what about Dark Elves, i'm doing some concepts and one of them is a dark elve...

i'm not sure if it will suit in contest rules...



Nice pic. List says no elves though.

[wildekyote]

Is it frowned upon to do a colaborative challenge entry. My concept work is horrible and I have a freind who is a great character artist and he's great at developing ideas but he can't do the 3D end and I'm the exact opposite. We wanted to try and get something together and join the contest. Is this allowed, or not?

Might be a stupid question but I wanted to ask just in case. This will be my first challenge entry and I didn't want to give a bad first impression :)

[gmask]

I found a pretty good list of characters and the ones used in the movies are asterixed..

http://zzickle.topcities.com/tolkien/people.html

Hope this helps to avoid known characters or reveal the lesser known.

[BlueCougar]

So the fur plug-in exclusion would include Saslite in LW?

Just wondering so I can plan ahead for texturing his fur...

[lildragon]

Yes any fur generation plugins, you can use clip maps like I'll be doing for my character

salud

[bentllama]

Originally posted by lildragon
ok how about this Bent, no simulation plugs for fur, ie SHave and Hair Cut or Shag: fur

Fur is always a tough call :shrug:

salud

Paint FX it is then...since there will be many splines used to create it... :)

[Joviex]

Originally posted by bentllama
Paint FX it is then...since there will be many splines used to create it... :)

er, but if that is the case then I can use sasquatch in LW since that also uses splines?

[bentllama]

Originally posted by amorano
er, but if that is the case then I can use sasquatch in LW since that also uses splines?

if I even get far enough along to start the fur, I wont be submitting the piece with fur on it...not if the fur breaks the rules...

...as a MOD I want to set an example and abide by the rules...even if MODS cannot win the challenges... :)

so can we get some kind of official call about the use of FUR, eh lildragon?

is fur/pantFX hair/etc that is modeled with splines ok to use?
or no procedural fur at all?

[D-3]

Do excuse the ingenuousness but in the regulation the use of complete textures is allowed? how do you color, bumps, glossines, specular maps??
Thank you

[Apt Pupil]

Ya, I don't understand why there is a fur issue. I thought anything under the sky is the limit, after all, we are allowed to use textures. So background matte paintings, 2d images placed on plain surfaces to add detail etc., is allowed, no?

:shrug:

[gmask]

Originally posted by Apt Pupil
Ya, I don't understand why there is a fur issue. I thought anything under the sky is the limit, after all, we are allowed to use textures. So background matte paintings, 2d images placed on plain surfaces to add detail etc., is allowed, no?

:shrug:

I guess because it is supposed to be more about modelling.. if you covered the model with fur you would't have to add much detail to the actual model. So it's too har dto compare a straight model to something covered with fur???

[Apt Pupil]

I see your point there, fur would make almost anything look good :hmm:

let's see what lil has to say and if he updates the rules accordingly.

[smfjersey]

hmmm,..I understand why you would say fur may cover geometry. Fur in my opinion is a texture and as rule 5 states.

" textures are allowed for final voting. Since you have an extended date this month, use it wisely "

I know you are very strict about the rules, and for good reason. But I looked through some sketches and concepts. There are people who developed there characters based on the rules, but look pretty fury to me (like that fury ape,the Berserker,Ragadast the Brown, and maybe Lor'akani). I kinda think saying you can't use fur at this stage is a bit late.

It's your gig and you are all doing a great job with these challenges. But I would hope you reconsider this fur issue.


:)

[Carlocki]

a simple question
why this month only a classic challenge?

[davi]

can we post more than one entries, i'm new to the challenge :)

[davi]

can we post more than one entries, i'm new to the challenge :)

[Wiro]

I just spoke to Lildragon about the hair/fur thing;
Basically we don't want people to cover up bad modelling with lots of fur or become lazy and push a couple of buttons. So we've decided to allow for fur BUT not long hair using plugins. If you want long hair you will either have to model it or use clipmaps/opacitymaps.

As for the allowed races:
We're trying to keep people from simply recreating races. We know people are itching to show their interpretation of Gollum or another elf, etc but we want to see something original.
The "banned races" list is more a guidline. This is why we have rule 3:

3) Races can be based on the list above, but heavy influences will be ignored.

You can mix races together...a spirit balrog? A dwarf orc? Just try to not make it look like anything you've seen before in LOTR which also includes book illustrations (allthough it'll be hard to check this up...we just trust you ;) )

multiple entries
We'd rather that you concentrate on ONE great model than two or three rushed ones. If you can make three great models then cool, up to you :)

Wiro

[davi]

well i'm in the 2d section, I'm sure i could come up with a few decent designs, i've already drawn like 8 pieces for the one character i have.

[Primus]

Would it be possible to join the 2D and 3D challenges at the same time :)

I've a jones for doing both :hmm:

[polymath]

what about a human that was cursed and lost most of his "humanity" and characteristics? Such as a man who's got goblins popping out of his skin trying to eat him and stab him with stuff while he's got a pig tail, and various other animallike deformities? would it still classify as human? I guess it is a combination of races, just double checking :)

[barcode]

Are we allowed to model a background environment for the characters?

[Lunatique]

I uploaded a WIP for the Challenge site(2D), but it looks like I'm only allowed one entry? Can I have more than one?

[lildragon]

Originally posted by Lunatique
I uploaded a WIP for the Challenge site(2D), but it looks like I'm only allowed one entry? Can I have more than one?

Not for the same category

Tito

[Mandrake]

May I suggest a clean rotating object (avi, mov..)
for next challenges?
Some of us would want to make more artistic final composition,
with moody lightnin or lots of fur/hair etc. but it could
hide modeling/texturing
IMHO overall design/modeling of character could be only
judged properly by looking at rotating object. That, plus final
composition (pose, mood, light, style, expression, plugins..)
would make entries easy for judging. What do you think?

[Bilbo_Baggins]

In the end could there be a big render with all the characters from the contest in it? :)

[bentllama]

Originally posted by Mandrake
May I suggest a clean rotating object (avi, mov..)
for next challenges?
Some of us would want to make more artistic final composition,
with moody lightnin or lots of fur/hair etc. but it could
hide modeling/texturing
IMHO overall design/modeling of character could be only
judged properly by looking at rotating object. That, plus final
composition (pose, mood, light, style, expression, plugins..)
would make entries easy for judging. What do you think?

That sounds like a solid idea. The mods will chat about it, and the next challenge shortly. :) Thanks for the idea! :)

[ilasolomon]

Very good Idea, maybe I put a 360 degree rotation of the main character in final . or @least a couple of orbital renders.

[zeroeefx]

Just want to make sure i'm doing this right before i make a thred..


my characters name is Tash.
he is one on of ten left of this race. He comes from the ancient time, when you world was first born. His race used to be a very peaceful race, living in the woods till dark times came and almost wipe the world of his kind. they are always on the move now.

hieght- about 10 feet tall
weight - don't know and he bigger hen me so i don't ask
landspeed- very fast
mind- very smart
weapons- sheilds, trees, and maybe axe or two

[Wiro]

I think it's just fine to make a character like this. Good luck Zeroeefx!

Wiro

[road]

If I am doing a collab with a designer and I'm the modeller do I use the syntax of

Races of Middle Earth - character - collab

or

Races of Middle Earth - character - road / brasshorsekiller

??

and is this ok to do a collab for this challenge?

[Bruzundanga]

There's a mistake, serious mistake about the deadlines in the 2d challenge session... I read it again, and it's clear in the title of the rules thread: January 2003 Official Classic Challenge Guidelines - Through Jan 10th - Feb 9th

But when you read the entire thread, it's written: The Challenge starts Jan 10th, 2003 and will run until Feb 28th, 2003 Midnight GMT

Which one is right???

9th or 28th??

[zeroeefx]

updateing pic on Classic Challenge on the cgchallenge site..

i update the pic but its not updateing the thumb nail but when you click on it it show the updated pic . what is up ?? i'm i doing something wrong?? email plz

[mtmckinley]

I think that happend to me too, but I updated again and it turned out right.

[smfjersey]

I looked in the rules and didn't find much info on post processing. I was kinda under the impression it was pure renders. No post at all. I guess I just assumed this. Could someone elaborate on this issue?

thanks

[Wiro]

Actually the challenge is about modelling (and now texturing) so the renders should simply show off the model as good as possible. I'd say post processing is fine as the render is not the point of focus.

Wiro

[Equinoxx]

Originally posted by zeroeefx
i update the pic but its not updateing the thumb nail but when you click on it it show the updated pic .

i get that too. it's a simple case of refreshing the page [F5]
that should fix it ;)

[SPENEN]

Hi there, I just wanna say that this is the challenge of my life =), it's exactly my style =D (even if I'm not so very good at it)
Lill, I hope you come up with more of these "fantasy challenges" =) later =D.

Anyway, I have a question, or a suggestion.
If I post a picture in the gallery/finished or wip forum at cgtalk
I will probably get an answer or reply within 5-10 minutes, mainly.
But when I post a wip in the cgchallenge forum I might get 1 answer/week or so. Maby it's because I'm so good that none have anything to comment about it, or that they think i suck so much that they cant write anything without insulting me hehe, seriously I think it's because there aren't so many that are aware that there is a wip forum at cgchallenge.

So maby it would be more that looked/wrote in the challenges forum if , for example when you create a wip or send in a challenge a link to it apears in the wip forum in cgtalk.

Ok, maybe it's supposed to be this way , anyway. =)

C ya

[Johnlittle]

Hi there. I was wondering if it was exceptable to create a scene only,one that is LOTR specific? Well with props and perhaps a statue within it as the representative character for the challenge,I mean a statue does represent a character of some kind,although it's stone or marble etc,etc...? Thanks for any answers ahead of time.:beer: :)

[Wiro]

Johnlittle: The challenge was supposed to be more character specific but it's possible to give a landscape character too I suppose and if you also give it a backstory and it hasn't been seen before in the movie or books...hey why not? But give it chaaaaaracter! :D

I only speak for myself though, it depends if the other mods aggree.

SPENEN: You're right about the few replies in some threads. There are just SO many of them that it's hard to follow them all.
One tip is to post your latest update on the first page of your thread (just edit it and type [edit: update / date] so people know this is the latest) and also update your thumbnail in the CGChallenge.com gallery (I'm guilty of forgetting to do this!)
Maybe more thumbs per page on CGChallenge.com would help? Tito? Leo?

Wiro

[Wiro]

After a quick talk to Lildragon: There obviously is no category for landscapes (duh...sorry, it's getting late here)...and as such no prize for it either.
You can still do a landscape for the sake of the challenge and your own education but it won't be voteable, sorry.

Wiro

[SPENEN]

Ok thx for the tip Wiro =), I'll think about that.

[muckywetnoodle]

What ever happened to the topic suggestions?

Anyhow, something I thought would be cool is a "Digital Double" challenge where you pick an actor/actress in a film, and model their digital double. Practical, yet fun. ;)

[Ionized]

Um... I'm having problems updating on the challenge site. It seems that the small picture on the list is updating, but when you go to view the larger image, it's isn't updated.

Anyone else finding this?

[RobertoOrtiz]

When u say midnight?
Is it the MIDNIGHT when the 27 becomes the 28 or when
march 1st begins?

It is not clear on the rules.

-R

[Kirt]

I noticed that there are a number of entries on the CgChallenge site that do not have threads started for their entries. Wasn't it determined last month that no thread = no entry?

[Gamoron]

I have another comment on the subject that Kirt has brought up. I think it kind of unfair to all challenge members if someone can start a thread and enter a picture on the day the images are due. How do we know these people haven't been working on these for ages? Personally I think that if you are going to enter the challenge you should start a thread within the first few days to be excepted. And maybe after that someone would have to ask you lildragon to be entered.

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.