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danb
06-01-2006, 12:33 PM
I'm still tripped up on how the whole "make your own rig" in Poser goes. I got all the body parts rigged but i need to figure out how to add the eyes.

On renderosity i have a thread running on this topic. The peeps in there told me i need to assign a material ID to the eyes, then export to wavefront.

Anybody have any clue as to what they mean?

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 03:21 PM
Hi Dan,

I can probably help, once I understand where you're at a little better...

1. Which version of C4D are you using?

2. Are you using Riptide?

3. Is your model completely grouped? (ie. leftEye, rightEye, head, neck, etc.)

...I don't think I've seen your thread on Renderosity, so it might have more details, can you post a link to that thread as well? Or take a few steps back and explain the particular problem more here?

Thanks,

- Keith

danb
06-02-2006, 05:08 PM
Hi keith thanks for your help.

To sum up:

I modelled the character in c4d and setup polygon selection tags on the eyes. Then exported using standard c4d wavefront export. I do have Riptide but was unsure of the settings for export.

I then imported into poser and into the setup room. There i took the Kate figure rig and positioned all the bones to match my character.

Then i autogrouped the bones to the parts that they are near. Worked great and all the groups besides the fingers and eyes did not need tweaking.

So now i've got the figure rigged and grouped but i don't have the eyes rigged or grouped to anything becuase i cannot select the eye polygons inside the head to assign them to a bone.


So here's what i need. Either to group the eyes to the existing Kate eyes, or import the eyes as seperate objects and somehow individually group the eyes to a bone and then have that bone a child of the neck bone.

A little change has occured. I need to have a piece of clothing part of the rig also. Not clothified though. So i have the same problem with the eyes as with this new piece of clothing.

I hope you can help. Thanks for any.

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 05:18 PM
Hi Dan,

I found your thread on Renderosity and left several replies there.. go take all that in and then let me know what's still unclear.

Cheers,

- Keith

danb
06-02-2006, 06:13 PM
Hi thanks i looked at my thread over there. A lot of good info thanks for that.

One question is once i follow you directions and export into poser how do i assign things in the setup room, by your method?

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 06:32 PM
If you use the correct group (bone) names in C4D, you shouldn't have to assign anything - the groups of polygons, when named exactly the same as the bone, represent the polygons that belong to that bone.

So, for example, you have a 'head' bone. If your mesh has a 'head' group, it is automatically assigned to the 'head' bone. Poser's auto-group tool in the Setup Room does exactly that... looks for the polygons that are near each bone and creates a polygon 'group', with the name of that bone.

I find that you have much more control if you just create the groups yourself inside C4D before you export.

Does that make sense?

danb
06-02-2006, 06:38 PM
Ah ha ! I see. So when i import the mesh into the Setup room and position the bones then all i need to do is go back to the Pose room? I don't need to do any polygon grouping?

I like the idea of setting the polygon selections in c4d better. I think it would make things like fingers defrom better right?

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 07:15 PM
Ah ha ! I see. So when i import the mesh into the Setup room and position the bones then all i need to do is go back to the Pose room? I don't need to do any polygon grouping?

Correct. But, just remember what I said in that other thread about Poser creating a new mesh for you in the character folder... the new .cr2 file you save will be pointing at that file. If you're ok using that, then you don;t have to do anything, but if you want it to point to your original .obj file, you'll need to load the .cr2 file into a text editor and change the 2 filename references near the top of the file (the two lines should be obvious, once you look at it).

I like the idea of setting the polygon selections in c4d better. I think it would make things like fingers defrom better right?

Yes and no... yes, you can make the divisions more exact and logical (the cuts, between knuckles) and this will help guide you when you are setting up the joint parameters inside Poser (you can 'hide' individual body-parts/groups, so, for example you could hide lThumb2 and then see exactly where the second and third knuckle centers should be).

The 'no' part of it is that... to some extent, because "Children can affect thier Parents", it doesn't really matter (within reason) where the cuts are made so (good) bending depends almost entirely on (good) joint parameters (where the axis of rotations are, how the inclusion and exclusion zones are set up, how spherical falloff zones are set up (if used), etc).

The above is something you should always keep in mind when you are deciding how to cut your mesh up... "Children affect thier Children entirely and can afffect thier Parents" and "Children can NOT affect thier Grandparents or Siblings". For illustration purposes, let's look at the upper torso...

abdomen->chest->neck->head->eyes

along with two other trees that branch out from the chest...

chest->lCollar->lShldr->etc.
chest->rCollar->rShldr->etc.

...ok, so if you bend the neck, the head (and it's children, the eyes) are affected entirely - they move with the neck. But remember that Children can affect thier Parents too, so when you bend the neck, some polygons in the chest (depending on how the inclusion/exclusion and/or spherical falloff zones are set up) can also be affected as part of that bending action.

BUT (the most important point), bending the neck can NOT affect any polygons in it's Grandparent (the abdomen) or any Siblings (lCollar, rCollar).

Once this sinks in, you'll see that it's important to chose some cuts very carefully. Bending the head can only affect the neck, but NOT the chest polygons, so you want the neck to come down as far as possible. At the same time, the lCollar and rCollar can affect the chest, but NOT the neck polygons, so you have to be careful how far the neck comes down. The general result is that there has to be some chest polygons between the neck and the collars, but it can (and probably should) be just one row of polygons, positioned in a place that benefits both neck and collar movements.

There is a similar situation with the hip->lButtock->lThigh (assuming your mesh has buttock parts). Thigh bends can affect the buttock polygons, but NOT the hip polygons, etc.

danb
06-02-2006, 08:15 PM
Eeeek. Wow that's a lot to take in. :)

Hmm... Thing is that i got perfect deformation with the way i'm setting up my rig in the setup room. Is there a way to kind of merge the two styles of setup.

So i could use my way of setting up the bones and auto grouping but then use your way of assigning polygon selections in c4d then import into setup room and do both. So this way i can keep the exact deformation i have now but just use the eye grouping to setup the eyes?

Grrrr..getting frustrated. :)

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 08:25 PM
Yeah, it's a lot to digest :).

But the answer to your question is probably better/easier than you think...

If you're happy with your rigging (.cr2 file) then just leave that alone - just replace the .obj file that the .cr2 file points to.

Because of what I was discussing in the previous post (ie. to a large extent, it 'doesn't matter' where the cuts are, within reason), I think you'll find that the current .cr2 file you have made will work fine (better, maybe) with a new .obj file.

You could either set everything up as I described in the R'osity thread (set up all your group selections, add group tags, etc) and save out a new .obj file, or you could start by importing the one that Poser wrote out to the character folder and cleaning up the groups in C4D, then re-exporting it (but it will be 'split' into separate meshes at the joint boundries - you could fix that by importing it into UVMapper and welding, or in C4D using the Optimize function).

Basically, if the rigging is basically how you want it, you don't need to enter the Setup Room anymore. Just fine-tune the group cuts where needed in C4D and fine-tune the joint parameters with the Joint Editor in Poser.

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 08:32 PM
...in other words, if you Import (using Riptide) the mesh that Poser wrote out, it'll have any groups created by the auto-group feature still in it. Any polygons that don't already belong to a group (like the eyes) will be collected into a 'default' selection tag, just to the right of the Group Tag.

Keith Young
06-02-2006, 08:36 PM
...and another tip:

To group the eyes in C4D, just click on one polygon of the eyeball and then "Select Connected" to get the rest of the eye - or at least that portion of the eye... if you had an outer-layer 'Cornea', then you'd have that selected, so make a 'Cornea' selection (for a material zone), then hide it and click on the eyeball itself and "Select Connected" again, etc. Once you have selection tags for all parts of the left eye, use those tags to select all of those parts at the same time and make a 'leftEye' selection and add that to the Group Tag's list.

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