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View Full Version : Harrison: We didn't steal Nintendo's idea


ParamountCell
05-31-2006, 05:01 PM
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140731


http://www.wii60.com/uploads/107.gif

wolfmanyoda
05-31-2006, 05:46 PM
Ok, sure Phil...we believe you.

That guy is an idiot. :rolleyes:

poly-phobic
05-31-2006, 05:50 PM
"When we brought the PlayStation to the market in 1994, we introduced real time 3-D graphics for the first time," he noted. "When Nintendo launched its N64 in 1996 it also had 3D graphics, did we say, "Nintendo stole our idea!"?

yea, he's an idiot.

wolfmanyoda
05-31-2006, 05:57 PM
If you want to get technical about it the SNES had 3D in StarFox. The cartridge had a special graphics chip inside it ( Super FX chip) that gave it 3D.
So, yes, this guy is an idiot.

archerx
05-31-2006, 06:07 PM
"When we brought the PlayStation to the market in 1994, we introduced real time 3-D graphics for the first time," he noted. "When Nintendo launched its N64 in 1996 it also had 3D graphics, did we say, "Nintendo stole our idea!"?


Apparently he never played starfox for the SNES.... nor quake or wait why am I even trying...? he's an idiot....

Bonedaddy
05-31-2006, 06:18 PM
Considering the roots of the Playstation are in a Sony-Nintendo collaboration for the SNES (bringing a CD player add-on to the console), I'd say the company already has a bit of a history of taking from Nintendo. Of course, given that Nintendo massively shafted them in 1991 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation#Development), I'd say they sort of had it coming... but this is pretty blatant.

pixelmonk
05-31-2006, 06:40 PM
ehh who cares at this point? That's still like Mac zealots still whining that Microsoft stole their GUI years ago. BFD... move on (unless there's a case for a lawsuit).

innermindseye
05-31-2006, 07:26 PM
id just like to add, on top of evrything else.. what an idiot... :)

DevilHacker
05-31-2006, 07:41 PM
(unless there's a case for a lawsuit).lets hope not. Our luck, consoles launch date would be pushed back in such an event...
not good for anyone.

ParamountCell
05-31-2006, 08:10 PM
ehh who cares at this point? BFD... move on (unless there's a case for a lawsuit).

Well I could answer your question in many ways, one would be this video, I dont mean to cause offence or a flamewar with its content. I only want to bring your attention to the part where Sony comment on gimmicks.

http://www.gameklip.com/v/719/
Moreover, I dont often get a chance to bathe in the awe inspiring glow of my correctness, so i think i will indulge myself.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2916989&postcount=33

Please draw your attention to this.

Originally Posted by laureato di arte
today is the 16th of december 2005, the time is 20:15, I want you to remember this day, and remember this time, you must not forget. Infact all who doubt me, I want you to put this statement as your signatures. Today I am making a prediction, either sony, or microsoft, or both will incorporate this idea into their next controller.


Yup I dont often get a chance to say wehay, I told ya'll.:wise:

My last point is this,
http://www.wii60.com/uploads/107.gif
we cannot deny how idiotic that guy looks whilst playing with the Pswii control, combined with Phils quotes, it just screams Idiot. No offence sony.

NanoGator
05-31-2006, 08:31 PM
"We planned on putting this feature in all along! We just decided to start working on it 2 weeks before E3 (which, coincidentally, is about the same time that Red Steel started earning lots of hype...) because that just seemed like a great time to start that phase of development."

I cannot believe how comical this whole experience has been.

kage-maru
05-31-2006, 08:48 PM
When we brought the PlayStation to the market in 1994, we introduced real time 3-D graphics for the first time

Bahauhauhauahauhau :scream:

ashen
05-31-2006, 09:07 PM
Awesome article and clip, gotta love the giant crab & real-time weapon change bits.

Kion
05-31-2006, 09:12 PM
http://www.wii60.com/uploads/107.gif[/img]
we cannot deny how idiotic that guy looks whilst playing with the Pswii control, combined with Phils quotes, it just screams Idiot. No offence sony.

I played warhawk at e3, i didn't spax out like that guy when I was playing it. I really don't know what his problem is. However I do want my rumble back. The tilt sensor is cool but i perfer my anolog sticks

wedge
05-31-2006, 09:22 PM
didn't Sega Saturn come out before Playstation?

Kion
05-31-2006, 09:31 PM
didn't Sega Saturn come out before Playstation?

it did but the saturn was a realy a 2d machince, a really good 2d machince

deadplant155
05-31-2006, 10:06 PM
Quoted from the article...

he thinks "all games will use the function somehow."

uhuh....yeah.....you've been working on it a long time....and you think that all the games will use it somehow....

this just makes me happy i've always stuck by nintendo.

grrinc
05-31-2006, 10:10 PM
Didnt the 3DO come out before PS? I had one and can recall quite a few 3d games on it. Just cant recall wether it was before or after PS; I am sure it was before though. Eitherway, Sony seems to have a bad PR problem at the moment.

heavyness
05-31-2006, 10:11 PM
lets start working on a major change to our controller 2 weeks before E3? what? that's bull. you don't do any new shit 2 weeks before E3 [just crunch down on what you've working on for the past 1-2 years]. you don't even get to change what your wearing to E3 two weeks before E3...

right now, the general public sees it as a joke and a ripoff. coming out and trying to defend it isn't going to work. sony should just shut up and actually doing something with the controller that would make everyone eat their words. sony needs a PR department. until then...


http://www.wii60.com/forum/images/misc/vbulletin3_logo_white.gif
the people have spoken...

csutcliffe
05-31-2006, 10:21 PM
The Amiga CD32 had realtime 3d. I remember a game called Microcosm by Psygnosis. Overall the console was crap though.

Sonk
05-31-2006, 10:37 PM
ehh who cares at this point? That's still like Mac zealots still whining that Microsoft stole their GUI years ago. BFD... move on (unless there's a case for a lawsuit).

i doubt it, since Sony has a patent for motion sensing controller since the PS One era. So no, they didnt steal Nintendo ideas.

NanoGator
05-31-2006, 10:40 PM
i doubt it, since Sony has a patent for motion sensing controller since the PS One era. So no, they didnt steal Nintendo ideas.

Funny they added it 2 weeks before E3, then.

CupOWonton
05-31-2006, 11:22 PM
Those people are idiots. The 360 games will be ported to PC because of the nativity of the programming on Windows Vista and the 360 with DX10 and DX9 support. So it should be a PCWii combo. May cost more to upgrade your comp, but usualy people do that anyway, so why not save the cash and just upgrade to a better PC with a Wii?


http://www.wii60.com/forum/images/misc/vbulletin3_logo_white.gif
the people have spoken..

monkeybeach
06-01-2006, 12:07 AM
The Amiga CD32 had realtime 3d. I remember a game called Microcosm by Psygnosis. Overall the console was crap though.

You sure that was 3d? Wasn't it like classic Asteroids-gameplay (or maybe more like Space Invaders?) over a animated background?

It doesn't really matter though. The Wright brothers weren't the first to fly either, and they definately weren't the only ones in the world to experiment with powered flight at that time. They were the ones that made an impact (no pun intended) though, so they're the ones really worth remembering.

Ideas don't come out of nothing, it's not like Nintendo magically created the wiimote out of a creative vacuum. Hell, there has been gyros and stuff in game controllers since like the 80's...

Starfox may (or may not) have been the first game to feature realtime 3d, but who cares? It was a horrible game, and a historical footnote. If anything, Starfox put the "useless gimmick" stamp on realtime 3d, I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it.

Starfox was probably very innovative, and so was the Virtual Boy, I'm sure, and Betamax, and a ton of other failures, but the fact remains - they changed nothing. Unless it's something people USE and LIKE, it doesn't count. They're insignificant.

The Playstation changed EVERYTHING. Like or hate it, it's a fact.

The Wii might do that too, and I hope it will. It would be nice to see something Nintendo invents that's actually any good for a change.

brewski
06-01-2006, 12:20 AM
That function on the ps3 control will almost never be used i think, it will be one of those thinsg like 3 gams will use

lovisx
06-01-2006, 12:34 AM
I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it.



I guess I'm no one then... :cry:

JMcWilliams
06-01-2006, 12:37 AM
Starfox may (or may not) have been the first game to feature realtime 3d, but who cares? It was a horrible game, and a historical footnote. If anything, Starfox put the "useless gimmick" stamp on realtime 3d, I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it.


I was :shrug:

I liked it. :D

amfantasy
06-01-2006, 12:37 AM
Don't believe they can sue, but that was a underhanded move done by sony

R10k
06-01-2006, 12:46 AM
You sure that was 3d? Wasn't it like classic Asteroids-gameplay (or maybe more like Space Invaders?) over a animated background?

There wasn't any 3D in Microcosm. I own it, so I know ;) There was 3D on the Amiga a long time before that, and there was Guardian on the CD32 which was a fully 3D game also.

I hope that Sony guy is talking about 3D on consoles, because I remember Elite, and Starglider, and...

DirtROBOT
06-01-2006, 12:58 AM
Those people are idiots. The 360 games will be ported to PC because of the nativity of the programming on Windows Vista and the 360 with DX10 and DX9 support. So it should be a PCWii combo. May cost more to upgrade your comp, but usualy people do that anyway, so why not save the cash and just upgrade to a better PC with a Wii?


[/center]

Personally, upgrading to a new PC would cost a lot more than a 360... Plus it's great as to how seamlessly the 360 fits into a home entertainment system.

If Sony's brand is so mighty, why do they get into these flame wars with microsoft and nintendo? They should just shut up, play the trademark crazy PS ads and wait until launch!

Kion
06-01-2006, 01:19 AM
There wasn't any 3D in Microcosm. I own it, so I know ;) There was 3D on the Amiga a long time before that, and there was Guardian on the CD32 which was a fully 3D game also.

I hope that Sony guy is talking about 3D on consoles, because I remember Elite, and Starglider, and...

i think he's saying the ps1 was the first dedicated 3d console, well kinda there was the 3do hmmm.

KayosIII
06-01-2006, 01:24 AM
well yeah - having a tilt/motion sensor inside a game controller is nothing really new. In fact you can pick up chips from analog devices designed specifically for this for something like $10 a piece (probably a lot less if you are ordering thousands of them). I can remember Microsoft and (I think) Logitech releasing tilt (maybe not motion) sensing controllers quite a few years back. What I think success will come down to is how well said device will work in the real world... and a decent supply of games that use these features that are fun to play.

CupOWonton
06-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Personally, upgrading to a new PC would cost a lot more than a 360... Plus it's great as to how seamlessly the 360 fits into a home entertainment system.

If Sony's brand is so mighty, why do they get into these flame wars with microsoft and nintendo? They should just shut up, play the trademark crazy PS ads and wait until launch!

If youre buying a "brand new" pc, yeah, it costs a lot. But considering the 2-3 year turnaround in which people upgrade or replace computers, theyre saving several hundred dollars for that extra proc for their dual-dualcore or a better videocard, either way, they win by not buying a 360 in the first place.

Michael5188
06-01-2006, 01:51 AM
I was :shrug:

I liked it. :D

Ha, yeah, I loved Starfox, fun game.

visionmaster2
06-01-2006, 02:03 AM
Staaaarglidderrr ! :love:


thanks for remembering it to me !

TumikSmacker
06-01-2006, 04:51 AM
Nintendo said they are not in competition this round with Sony and MS, so if they're not then why should it bother them?

PyRoT
06-01-2006, 06:24 AM
Apart from what everyone else has already said, I don't like this pride Sony has over their DualShock controller. Calling ti industry standard as if its some perfect device. Personally, I think it has too many buttons which can scare away new gamers and as for ergonomisc? bleh..

Tomek

Apoclypse
06-01-2006, 06:41 AM
To many buttons?! Have you seen the xnox controller or the Gamecube controller. Especially the gamecube controller, what in the hell am I supposed to do with that thing. You can't even play a decent fighting on that thing. Sony's controller is simple and it is a standard since they have been using the same degin since he original PS. However, it goes farther than that, the ps controller is a retake on the very popular snes controller with the cross d-pad and the four buttons on the face. All they did was add handeles so that your hands wouldn't cramp like they did on the snes controller and add and extra set of buttons to the back. Ofcourse later on after Nintendo had that whole analog stick on the N64, they added the two analog sticks, and shortly after when Nintendo took out the rumble pack, they added the "shock" part to it. I do see a trend here though, it seems that they wait unitl Ninitendo does something and then take their idea and rework it sometimes for the better, not always though. But as for the dual-shock having to many buttons, I don't thinks so.

pearson
06-01-2006, 07:59 AM
They really should have just let this die. Yeah, Nintendo owned at E3, and your street cred took a hit with a poor controller gimmick, but there are plenty of fan boys who will eagerly buy anything with the Playstation brand on it. And that should be enough to at least break even with the 360 by the end of the year...

As for every game using it, I really doubt it. And taking away my rumble, for tilt control that I won't use...well, that just sucks.

Wabit
06-01-2006, 08:11 AM
This type of pad has been out for years. I remember back in college using a Microsoft sidewinder pad plugged into my pc to play motocross madness which did the same thing. I really don’t care who does what with the technology or who invented it first, just as long as they take it to the next level and give us something worth our pennies.

thethule
06-01-2006, 09:19 AM
Starfox may (or may not) have been the first game to feature realtime 3d, but who cares? It was a horrible game, and a historical footnote. If anything, Starfox put the "useless gimmick" stamp on realtime 3d, I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it.

Starfox was probably very innovative, and so was the Virtual Boy, I'm sure, and Betamax, and a ton of other failures, but the fact remains - they changed nothing. Unless it's something people USE and LIKE, it doesn't count. They're insignificant.



I don't know anything about the new ps3 controller, but i just wanted to say what an absolute load of bo**ocks whats quoted above is. StarFoxs' Super FX chip may have been a gimmick, but it was a gimmick that worked very very well. The game itself sold millions of copies and is widely regarded as one of the big N's finest. To call it a failure is just silly. And every single person i know and every single review i read loved the game. So there! :thumbsup:

but i do agree with whoever said who cares if Sony copied N's idea or not, we all come out the winners, so let the lawyers debate that side, let's all just enjoy the games! Not that i will be buying a PS3 in the next few years..£500????

PieterVH
06-01-2006, 10:28 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C64_International_3D_Tennis.pnghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/C64_International_3D_Tennis.png

Come on man. This dates from more than 15 years ago...

Sheesh.

There were 3D dungeon games, flight sims, etc... on the C64. The C64 I tell you!

PieterVH
06-01-2006, 10:33 AM
And there was 3D tic tac toe on the Atari 2600 before that.

:buttrock:

innermindseye
06-01-2006, 10:37 AM
it did but the saturn was a realy a 2d machince, a really good 2d machince

huh?? only games i can remmeber off my head are that weird flying nights game (forget the name but used analogue thumbstick) sega rally, virtua on. they were all full on 3d. And they looked reeeally good too.

EDIT: and to they guy complaining about starfox.. you suck. starfox was amazing game. great sense of scale in it. felt like i was in an animal star wars. quite immersive and new at the time :)

atzfratz
06-01-2006, 12:21 PM
There were 3D dungeon games, flight sims, etc... on the C64. The C64 I tell you!

Yeah , Elite :)

3D at its finest.

http://www.crashonline.org.uk/27/images/elite.gif

dalmanna
06-01-2006, 01:28 PM
The Playstation changed EVERYTHING. Like or hate it, it's a fact.
.



its a fact, look it up:scream:

are you sure its not just you that didn't like starfox. everyone i know that grew up with it loved it.

and as for they guy saying not to buy an xbox coz the games are going to be ported to pc.

i got my xbox to sit in my arm chair and play games. DOA4 isn't gonna be ported to pc so if you wanna play games like that (which me and my friends do) you have to get an xbox. not to mention halo 3 which will be xbox first. playing games on a pc is great if you like sitting at a desk, but me and alot of folks like me don't.

dalmanna
06-01-2006, 01:31 PM
huh?? only games i can remmeber off my head are that weird flying nights game (forget the name but used analogue thumbstick) sega rally, virtua on. they were all full on 3d. And they looked reeeally good too.

EDIT: and to they guy complaining about starfox.. you suck. starfox was amazing game. great sense of scale in it. felt like i was in an animal star wars. quite immersive and new at the time :)

yeah it did have loads of 3d games but it had way more 2d ones, though maybe not over here we tended to only get the major ports for saturn which was annoying.

JohnD
06-01-2006, 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by monkeybeach
Starfox may (or may not) have been the first game to feature realtime 3d, but who cares? It was a horrible game, and a historical footnote. If anything, Starfox put the "useless gimmick" stamp on realtime 3d, I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it.



I hardly ever post, but this comment made me. Starfox was a huge hit and was unlike anything that had come out before. It pushed the snes to it's limit of what it could do and was the hottest title around for quite some time. All my friends had it...I had it, and it gave a very good idea about the direction that video games were headed in. "Useless gimmick?" "Historical footnote?" C'mon now.

On a different note, I think Nintendo stands to come out the big winner. Still have to wait and see with the new 360 games coming out...and the price tag on PS3 is really going to hurt Sony in my opinion. For those of us who don't need mom and dad to buy it, it's no big deal...but I think a large percentage of the buyers (parents purchasing it for their kids) are gonna take one look at that price tag...say "no friggin' way," then go buy the Wii for $250.
You can also be sure that the 360 will dump it's price by $50 when the PS3 is released. I see a big Nintendo comeback on the horizon.

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 02:15 PM
You can also be sure that the 360 will dump it's price by $50 when the PS3 is released. I see a big Nintendo comeback on the horizon.

The 360 doesn't really have to drop its price. The new batch of games coming out soon should have people wanting to buy the 360 at its current pricing structure. As for the Weee... there really isn't anything they've shown that is that impressive other than the controller. *overly exaggerated finger twirl, mimicking the gimps on the Weee commercials* What they have shown for games and content pretty much blows. Geee, Weee... a "hip" controller, but a subpar graphics engine and no decent titles announced? Nin won't do any better with the Wee than the did with the GC. Ok... maybe they'll gain an extra 1-3%+ base, provided they show what the Weeee can do other than having people look like idiots with a controller.

Ninjas
06-01-2006, 03:40 PM
As for the Weee... there really isn't anything they've shown that is that impressive other than the controller. *overly exaggerated finger twirl, mimicking the gimps on the Weee commercials* What they have shown for games and content pretty much blows. Geee, Weee... a "hip" controller, but a subpar graphics engine and no decent titles announced? Nin won't do any better with the Wee than the did with the GC. Ok... maybe they'll gain an extra 1-3%+ base, provided they show what the Weeee can do other than having people look like idiots with a controller.

Yeah, you know, who has even heard of these "nothing" titles for Wii? Mario, Smash Bros., Metroid, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy? What are those? How could a game with a name like Zelda ever compete in sales with a frachise like HALO?

I for one would never buy a console that didn't make me look as cool as possible. Who plays games? I'm eagerly awaiting the 'Bling' edition of the PS3. I love chrome.

DirtROBOT
06-01-2006, 03:55 PM
I predict/best guess a 360 price drop - some have said MS doesn't have to - you have to realize that Microsoft is going to press every advantage to gain more market share. The ps3's biggest perceived weakness is its price. MS's biggest strength is it's IMMENSE cash flow/reserves (and maybe the halo franchise ;) ).

It may seem retarded that Microsoft will move to lose even more money per console but let's face it, they've been losing money ever since the first xbox, why stop when they're finally gaining decent momentum? A price drop could also serve as a slight jab at the Wii.

Sony's other problem is that any games ported between the 360/PS3 will look exactly the same. EA is already on the record saying they are not doing anything different between 360 and ps3 versions of its games. I saw sonic on both the 360 and ps3 at E3 and I could not tell the difference in any way. I'm not paying more money for the same experience (oh wait, no rumble!).

The biggest x-factor is blu-ray vs hd-dvd... It's possible the ps3 will sell a decent amount of hardware to people who want a 'cheap' blu-ray player. If I remember correctly the ps2 had a signicant percentage of sales to non-gamers who wanted a cheap dvd player, which means a low attachment rate (fancy way of saying they bought games for the system), which translates to less revenue on the royalty side.

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 03:58 PM
Yeah, you know, who has even heard of these "nothing" titles for Wii? Mario, Smash Bros., Metroid, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy? What are those? How could a game with a name like Zelda ever compete in sales with a frachise like HALO?

I for one would never buy a console that didn't make me look as cool as possible. Who plays games? I'm eagerly awaiting the 'Bling' edition of the PS3. I love chrome.

How could a name like Zelda shown at E3 for the Weee look so bad... almost GC par. BTW, bad attempts at sarcasm with the cool as possible.. the who plays games and the Bling.

lovisx
06-01-2006, 04:04 PM
How could a name like Zelda shown at E3 for the Weee look so bad... almost GC par. BTW, bad attempts at sarcasm with the cool as possible.. the who plays games and the Bling.

Zelda really doesn't look that bad... chech the hires videos at IGN. For a game ment to be played on gamecube, it looks fantastic.

PhantomDesign
06-01-2006, 04:13 PM
Motion sensing, tilt, and directional controllers have been around for YEARS. I have an old logitech one sitting under my desk right now.

Ninjas
06-01-2006, 04:18 PM
Oh, I almost forgot that Resident Evil, and the best selling franchise of all time, Madden, are also coming to the Wii with exclusive gameplay.

How could a name like Zelda shown at E3 for the Weee look so bad... almost GC par. BTW, bad attempts at sarcasm with the cool as possible.. the who plays games and the Bling.

Um, maybe because it was made for/is coming out on the Game Cube also? It's pretty obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. I was really just helping you out by illustrating how uneducated your opinions about games are. Do yourself a favor and check out some game reviews/sales stats before you go making a fool out of yourself.

You may not think my sarcasm was funny, but my point was that it is absolutely absurd that someone would even care about how cool they looked while playing a video game. It reminds me of those cowards who go to clubs, but won't dance because they are deathly afraid somebody will think they look lame.

I for one would buy a Wii just to replace my shoddy PS2 as a DVD player.

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 04:35 PM
Oh, I almost forgot that Resident Evil, and the best selling franchise of all time, Madden, are also coming to the Wii with exclusive gameplay.



Um, maybe because it was made for/is coming out on the Game Cube also? It's pretty obvious you have no clue what you're talking about. I was really just helping you out by illustrating how uneducated your opinions about games are. Do yourself a favor and check out some game reviews/sales stats before you go making a fool out of yourself.

You may not think my sarcasm was funny, but my point was that it is absolutely absurd that someone would even care about how cool they looked while playing a video game. It reminds me of those cowards who go to clubs, but won't dance because they are deathly afraid somebody will think they look lame.

I for one would buy a Wii just to replace my shoddy PS2 as a DVD player.

Uhhh like umm I know what I'm talking about. The only thing you helped is your petty ego by trying to think of something witty and sarcastic to say. There there, it's ok, widdle fanboy. Pretty ignorant thinking people aren't up to snuff as to what's going on. Some of us just don't have the fanboy fevor as others but that shouldn't make it seem as though we don't pay attention. We're just not drooling and mopping up messes we made after hearing the news. I can't speak to your dance dance revolution skills at the clubs.

Only an idiot wouldn't recognize I was taking a jab at the gimpy commercials with the overly exaggerated movements of the Weee users. Good for you buying something like that just to replace a DVD player... *overly exaggerated golf clap*. Move along.

NanoGator
06-01-2006, 04:43 PM
How could a name like Zelda shown at E3 for the Weee look so bad... almost GC par. BTW, bad attempts at sarcasm with the cool as possible.. the who plays games and the Bling.

Heh. Zelda's a GC Game. It's being ported to the Rev as well to support the controller, but that's about all they're doing with it. (Pity, I was hoping they'd at least up the res of the textures or something...)

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 04:46 PM
Heh. Zelda's a GC Game. It's being ported to the Rev as well to support the controller, but that's about all they're doing with it. (Pity, I was hoping they'd at least up the res of the textures or something...)

kind of one of my points. Zelda is a big name for Nin. It has been for some time. So why just lame out and leave it as is? Keep it GC and do the next edition of a Zelda game specifically for Wii utilizing all of what the box has to offer. Again, it goes back to showcasing the controller and the whole Nin lifestyle instead of focusing on the guts of the box and how kickass the graphics SHOULD be. Crank that sucker up and lets see what she's got under the hood.

blacknight
06-01-2006, 04:51 PM
I predict/best guess a 360 price drop - some have said MS doesn't have to - you have to realize that Microsoft is going to press every advantage to gain more market share. The ps3's biggest perceived weakness is its price. MS's biggest strength is it's IMMENSE cash flow/reserves (and maybe the halo franchise ;) ).

It may seem retarded that Microsoft will move to lose even more money per console but let's face it, they've been losing money ever since the first xbox, why stop when they're finally gaining decent momentum? A price drop could also serve as a slight jab at the Wii.

Sony's other problem is that any games ported between the 360/PS3 will look exactly the same. EA is already on the record saying they are not doing anything different between 360 and ps3 versions of its games. I saw sonic on both the 360 and ps3 at E3 and I could not tell the difference in any way. I'm not paying more money for the same experience (oh wait, no rumble!).

The biggest x-factor is blu-ray vs hd-dvd... It's possible the ps3 will sell a decent amount of hardware to people who want a 'cheap' blu-ray player. If I remember correctly the ps2 had a signicant percentage of sales to non-gamers who wanted a cheap dvd player, which means a low attachment rate (fancy way of saying they bought games for the system), which translates to less revenue on the royalty side.

well i dont know how is that sony could not compete with that " IMMENSE cash flow" becouse as long as i know they do manage a really big business, you know all the Broadcast selling they do with their HD cameras and XD cameras, i dont see a problem with loosing money with the ps3, the halo franchise, well most consoles this days have their own big selling franchise sony has their final fantasys the big ones are at least always exclysive of that console, nintendo has mario games and zelda, most ppl rpg gamers will prodly get ps3 just for FFXIII, most nintendo fanboys a zelda gamers will get a wii just for that, as well as the hole xbox halo fanbaser would get a 360 (if they dont have one already) just for halo.


and my point with all that is, what such a big problem with you guys wit the controller. i dont care if they made the motion sensor just to compete with nintendo i dont care anything that will make gaming exp is good, so what the point of the discusion about it, if i would get a 360 and MS make a eyetoy like game with their new webcam for the 360 will istart saying hey stole the idea from whoever, instead of enjoying that kind of gameplay. is all about the experience and the more options the better i say.

about the blue ray - HDDVD MS said sometime ago in an interview that they will offer and HDDVD option as well as a BR one (not complete sure this is true but i do remember reading it) andi really hope tha this does not increase the price on games, becouse i already thing that paying 70€ is alot of money for a game (89.98500 US$) and thats a big load of shit even for next gen

Ninjas
06-01-2006, 05:02 PM
There there, it's ok, widdle fanboy. Pretty ignorant thinking people aren't up to snuff as to what's going on. Some of us just don't have the fanboy fevor as others but that shouldn't make it seem as though we don't pay attention.

You refuse to spell "Wii" correctly and you're calling me the fanboy? I was just pointing out that even Nintendogs sold better than HALO. Most reviewers gave Super Mario Sunshine 9/10 and it is considered to be one of the worst Mario games. To say the Wii games aren't up to snuff seems, at least, to ignore that there are tons of Japanese fans foaming at the mouth to buy a new SM game.

Wii may be a stupid name, but I think you should show a little respect for the devs who are putting out these games.

FloydBishop
06-01-2006, 05:02 PM
All of this back and forth about the systems is pointless. Nothing can match the ads and gimmicks from the early days of videogames.

http://www.vgg.com/2600/graphics/foghat2600.jpg

Womball
06-01-2006, 05:06 PM
Graphics aren't important. Having a controller that swings like a sword hilt sounds more fun. I want to have fun when I play games, not be distracted by graphics. The gamecube can produce pretty amazing graphics anyway (RE 4) and Zelda will probably top that. Remember Ocarina of TIme looked amazing when it was released. I don't see why this wouldn't. The screenshot look great, and its most likely going to be a lot of fun. Btw I find next gen graphics not really impressive. I may be the only one, but they don't seem to be that huge of a leap in quality. Last gen graphical update was pretty impressive. This one doesn't have the same wow factor yet.

EpShot
06-01-2006, 05:20 PM
This one doesn't have the same wow factor yet.

probably because F.E.A.R. looks just as good as any of them.

heavyness
06-01-2006, 05:20 PM
wooo, wooo, wooo. Starfox sucks?

http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Star_Fox_SNES_ScreenShot2.jpg

Starfox put the "useless gimmick" stamp on realtime 3d, I honestly can't remember anyone I saw playing it back then that was even remotely impressed by it."

i'm sorry, but even if you didn't like that game, don't come in here and call it a gimmick. and just because you didn't get out much and never saw anyone playing it doesn't make it a bad game.



switch subjects --> is it getting hot in here, cause Zelda looks smocking hot!

http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/8.png


http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/9.png

more here (http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=901)

heavyness
06-01-2006, 05:23 PM
All of this back and forth about the systems is pointless. Nothing can match the ads and gimmicks from the early days of videogames.

http://www.vgg.com/2600/graphics/foghat2600.jpg

god i hope that comes to Xbox Live Marketplace! just the way i like'em, double-ender and all...

JohnD
06-01-2006, 05:24 PM
wooo, wooo, wooo. Starfox sucks?

http://www.consoleclassix.com/info_img/Star_Fox_SNES_ScreenShot2.jpg



i'm sorry, but even if you didn't like that game, don't come in here and call it a gimmick. and just because you didn't get out much and never saw anyone playing it doesn't make it a bad game.



switch subjects --> is it getting hot in here, cause Zelda looks smocking hot!

http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/8.png


http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/9.png

more here (http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=901)


Who..hold up. I didn't post that Starfox sucks. Sorry. I was quoting from MonkeyBeach from earlier on. My bad. I didn't use the quote button.

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 05:26 PM
You refuse to spell "Wii" correctly and you're calling me the fanboy? I was just pointing out that even Nintendogs sold better than HALO. Most reviewers gave Super Mario Sunshine 9/10 and it is considered to be one of the worst Mario games. To say the Wii games aren't up to snuff seems, at least, to ignore that there are tons of Japanese fans foaming at the mouth to buy a new SM game.

Wii may be a stupid name, but I think you should show a little respect for the devs who are putting out these games.

Hahah damn you need a pet rock or something. I misspelled it on purpose because I'm not a fan of the name nor the product. Engage the brain? Why should I show respect them? Or do you mean as a fan of Nintendo? Or maybe a fan of the genre or style of those games? I'm not.. so does that mean I still have to respect them, or am I excluded? I don't get why you even posted that, unless you are trying to blindly defend Nin to the mighty end? I'll let you make that call.

Regardless, games marketed, bought and sold in Japan don't always equate to sales in other areas of the world. Same goes with games in the states. How can you say most reviewers gave SMS a 9/10 and in the same sentence say it is considered to be one of the worst mario games? Are you implying that those "most reviewers" gave it a 9/10 with the understanding it sucked compared to the other mario games? Does that mean all other mario games were given a 10/10 from said reviewers? Strange.

pixelmonk
06-01-2006, 05:27 PM
All of this back and forth about the systems is pointless. Nothing can match the ads and gimmicks from the early days of videogames.



don't forget the crop of bad video games that came out years ago with that darn fangled motion sensor technology stuffs....


http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml01/01104.jpg

Womball
06-01-2006, 05:28 PM
Wow! I haven't seen those screenshots yet! Its amazing at what can be accomplished by game artists. Although getting back to the main idea of the this thread, the controller is rather important. And Sony's new controller idea seems like a weak attempt at mimicking the Wii controller.

Ninjas
06-01-2006, 05:54 PM
I was just going to let this drop, but it is too funny. I almost missed this one:

Weee(Wii)... a "hip" controller, but a subpar graphics engine.

Hey buddy. Software has graphics engines. Hardware has what we call a GPU or Graphics Proccessing Unit. It doesnt seem like you are really up-to-date on your games knowledge like you said. I guess that makes you a liar .

I misspelled it on purpose because I'm not a fan of the name nor the product.

You can't read very well can you?

Why should I show respect them?

Maybe because they are fellow CG artists? Unless, of course, you are just a poser who comes here to troll threads

Regardless, games marketed, bought and sold in Japan don't always equate to sales in other areas of the world.

Since I guess you had a hard time reading it the first time I'll repeat myself. Nintendogs sold more copies than HALO. Sales= sales.

How can you say most reviewers gave SMS a 9/10 and in the same sentence say it is considered to be one of the worst mario games? Are you implying that those "most reviewers" gave it a 9/10 with the understanding it sucked compared to the other mario games? Does that mean all other mario games were given a 10/10 from said reviewers?

Yup. Pretty much. Maybe there is some hope you'll learn to read yet! Of course you would have already known the kind of reviews past Mario games had recieved if you weren't so ignorant.

I don't argue with ignorant, trolling, lying, fanboys so don't expect a response from me.

On topic:

I was just thinking how the wiimote would be a pretty good replacement for the standard PC flightsim setup. You would have the same fuctionality as a Sidewinder joystick with the wiimote part, and the nunchuck could be the throtle. That would be pretty cool. A whole lot better than what the PS3 will have for flight games anyway. I like the part of the interview where the Sony guy implies that the PS3 tilt sensing is as good as the wiimote's position, orientation and acceleration sensing.

P_T
06-01-2006, 06:01 PM
Hahah damn you need a pet rock or something. I misspelled it on purpose because I'm not a fan of the name nor the product. Engage the brain? Why should I show respect them? Or do you mean as a fan of Nintendo? Or maybe a fan of the genre or style of those games? I'm not.. so does that mean I still have to respect them, or am I excluded? I don't get why you even posted that, unless you are trying to blindly defend Nin to the mighty end? I'll let you make that call.

Come now dude... just because you don't like them doesn't mean you shouldn't respect them. After all, they pioneered the controller style that you enjoy with either PS or Xbox.

When you spell it as "wee" it's like those people who kept typing "M$" or "$ony". Personally I find that rather pointless and immature.

monkeybeach
06-02-2006, 05:57 AM
i'm sorry, but even if you didn't like that game, don't come in here and call it a gimmick. and just because you didn't get out much and never saw anyone playing it doesn't make it a bad game.

There's no point in discussing taste I suppose, but superFX WAS a gimmick. There was like five titles or something that ever used it, possibly even fewer. That's more gimmick than revolution in my opinion.

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 09:52 AM
I was just going to let this drop, but it is too funny. I almost missed this one:


Hey buddy. Software has graphics engines. Hardware has what we call a GPU or Graphics Proccessing Unit. It doesnt seem like you are really up-to-date on your games knowledge like you said. I guess that makes you a liar .

Maybe because they are fellow CG artists? Unless, of course, you are just a poser who comes here to troll threads

Since I guess you had a hard time reading it the first time I'll repeat myself. Nintendogs sold more copies than HALO. Sales= sales.

Yup. Pretty much. Maybe there is some hope you'll learn to read yet! Of course you would have already known the kind of reviews past Mario games had recieved if you weren't so ignorant.

I don't argue with ignorant, trolling, lying, fanboys so don't expect a response from me.


Hey Buddy. I was throwing out a generalization "graphics engine", which is used in numerous reviews of consoles when they first came out. But if you must nitpick what I wrote, I can return the favor. Not all software has a "graphics engine". Not all hardware has what you call a GPU. There are other components that actually make up console hardware, if in fact that's what you were shooting for with the GPU comment. A GPU is just one of those components. Got that?

I shouldn't blindly respect anyone just because they're in the same field as me. I like to cook. That doesn't mean I should respect the work of the burger flipper at Chili's, regardless if he overcooked my burger or not. I'm certainly not going to be told to respect them just because someone like you tells me I should. You can not sit there and tell me you blindly respect everyone in the community, skill level withstanding. I respect people for certain reasons, certain things they do, and not just because they are in the same profession as me. Acknowledgement is different. Awareness is different.

As for your failed sales reporting... you still don't understand market plays into it. Also, you may want to site your sources for Nindogs and Halo sales. They announced Nindogs reached 6 million units sold at the GDC 06 this year. Halo surpassed that last year at some point. Sooo.. maybe in Japan Nindogs sold more units than Halo, but not worldwide. That, my buddy, is where sales don't always equal sales in your little world. But I fail to see how those two games play in to this conversation, unless you're still trying to carry that torch for Nintendo. If so, good on you for trying.

As for aruging with me... who's ignorant, I haven't lied about anything in my posts nor am I a fanyboy of Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony. Are you? I may have trolled a bit, I admit, but dude.. you're just too easy to screw with. Have an adequate day.

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 10:00 AM
Come now dude... just because you don't like them doesn't mean you shouldn't respect them. After all, they pioneered the controller style that you enjoy with either PS or Xbox.

When you spell it as "wee" it's like those people who kept typing "M$" or "$ony". Personally I find that rather pointless and immature.

True.. part of my Weee was a stab at the actual name, Wii. But after the first time I typed it, I remembered Morgan Webb at E3 talking about the Wii, and pronouncing it with the "eeee"s at the end. Weeeeee. It's even fun to type.

Respect and acknowledgement are two separate things. I already posted on my thoughts about real respect and blind (or blanket) respect. I acknowledge what these companies have done for gaming. I'm aware of their contributions. I see a difference in the two.

SHEPEIRO
06-02-2006, 10:48 AM
Weeeeee. It's even fun to type.


ha we have submission.

archerx
06-02-2006, 11:07 AM
Who knew my starfox reference would go so far.....


pixelmonk is just an immature troll so, might as well ignore him since he says nothing of value at all.

monkeybench is just a sony fanboy, no point in fighting with him.

Guys like stop arguing for the sake of arguing ok? it's rather stupid...

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 11:26 AM
Who knew my starfox reference would go so far.....


pixelmonk is just an immature troll so, might as well ignore him since he says nothing of value at all.

monkeybench is just a sony fanboy, no point in fighting with him.

Guys like stop arguing for the sake of arguing ok? it's rather stupid...

Who's the troll now? BTW, this actually had nothing to do with your Starfox reference. Completely missed the mark. Thanks for chiming in.

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 11:27 AM
ha we have submission.


shhhh.. don't let it out. It's Morgan's fault! :)

archerx
06-02-2006, 11:32 AM
Who's the troll now? BTW, this actually had nothing to do with your Starfox reference. Completely missed the mark. Thanks for chiming in.

I was the first person to mention Starfox in this thread which set off monkeybench :rolleyes:

As ninja said, do you read?

Me trolling, please.... :rolleyes:

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 11:38 AM
I was the first person to mention Starfox in this thread which set off monkeybench :rolleyes:

As ninja said, do you read?

Me trolling, please.... :rolleyes:

I read it perfectly, Ollie.

You started off by mentioning Starfox with the three dots which leads into bashing me. Then you bash monkeybench. If you want to troll, do it correctly. Construct your argument in such a way that people can understand who you're bashing and why instead of complaining that I didn't read it the way your mind works.


Next time, put the starfox comment at the top, which then leads into bashing monkeybench (I guess you can use the three dots). Then you can bash me separately at the bottom since I had nothing to do with the Starfox thing.

Troll effectively.

NanoGator
06-02-2006, 11:50 AM
There's no point in discussing taste I suppose, but superFX WAS a gimmick. There was like five titles or something that ever used it, possibly even fewer. That's more gimmick than revolution in my opinion.

The reason that 5 or so titles used it was that it increased the cost of the cart. As for gimmick.. nah, not quite sold on that one. The performance boost was dramatic, and Yoshi's Island was pretty darned cool. (Star Fox was slick, too.) Revolutionary? It was, but not for the 3D graphics. It allowed the SNES to step outside its specs without having to upgrade the system. No SFX chip, no Star Fox. Even Sega tried to mimick the success with it's own chip. (Virtua Racer for the Genesis..) Wow that game was expensive. Hehe.

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 12:04 PM
is any of the current "next gen" consoles going to have keyboard support. I was just thinking about that when I read Nano's post mentioning the Genesis.... and I thought of the failed Phantom console which was supposed to have a wireless keyboard. I know WebTV is bunk.. but I do surf via my HTPC on occasion. Also, with chat programs like Xfire, you can IM chat while in game. I'd imagine Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft must be thinking about how to make the console a part of your living experience, beyond gaming.

Kaostick
06-02-2006, 01:26 PM
You people remind me of the kids I went to elementary school with, just a little more eloquent.

ParamountCell
06-02-2006, 03:01 PM
switch subjects --> is it getting hot in here, cause Zelda looks smocking hot!

http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/8.png


http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/wp-content/screenshots/zelda/9.png

more here (http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=901)

beautiful, the thing is that is running off a GameCube, It doesnt look that much far off from what is being pulled off by the 360 (no disrespect) so i dont see s problem with what Wii should be able to pull off.

CupOWonton
06-02-2006, 03:12 PM
is any of the current "next gen" consoles going to have keyboard support. I was just thinking about that when I read Nano's post mentioning the Genesis.... and I thought of the failed Phantom console which was supposed to have a wireless keyboard. I know WebTV is bunk.. but I do surf via my HTPC on occasion. Also, with chat programs like Xfire, you can IM chat while in game. I'd imagine Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft must be thinking about how to make the console a part of your living experience, beyond gaming.

Theres a huge issue with people using Xfire to hack servers and jump in games theyve been banned from, so I dont think you should expect to be able to use it in conjunction with sertain games in the future. Not in its current state anyway.

ParamountCell
06-02-2006, 03:38 PM
I played warhawk at e3, i didn't spax out like that guy when I was playing it. I really don't know what his problem is. However I do want my rumble back. The tilt sensor is cool but i perfer my anolog sticks

apparantly you may still be able to.

heavyness
06-02-2006, 04:45 PM
There's no point in discussing taste I suppose, but superFX WAS a gimmick. There was like five titles or something that ever used it, possibly even fewer. That's more gimmick than revolution in my opinion.

so i guess upgrading your PC with a new video card is also a gimmick? this is the same as getting a new video cards, except this came on the game cart. the reason there wasn't that many games on it was because it was expensive and i'm sure Nintendo told anyone interested in making 3D games to hold off and wait for the N64.

there was a Star Fox 2 for the SNES, but never released.

tozz
06-02-2006, 04:49 PM
Yeah, you know, who has even heard of these "nothing" titles for Wii? Mario, Smash Bros., Metroid, Zelda, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy? What are those? How could a game with a name like Zelda ever compete in sales with a frachise like HALO?
Those games were all on GC too, look what they did for that machine, nothing. It's not about games any more, old franchises are getting old and they can't single handedly hold up an entire lifetime of a machine.

All three companies has been a letdown, guess I'll wait for the next generation.

And people, please stop posting miniature lowres screenshots and pretend they're good.

First 3d game... come on, back in the 70's there was 3d games, multiplayer even.

ParamountCell
06-02-2006, 05:01 PM
Those games were all on GC too, look what they did for that machine, nothing. It's not about games any more, old franchises are getting old and they can't single handedly hold up an entire lifetime of a machine.


You have a point, however, The Wii is not just about the old games but about new IPs also. Infact nintendo showed so many new IPs at E3. The most important feature however, is the new paradigm, like you, Nintendo recognised that it was time for a change, and they had they took the risk to make a difference.

Apoclypse
06-02-2006, 05:25 PM
Back when fighting games were popular and the new thing was 3d fighting games (virtual fighter had literaly just come out) there was a 3d fighting gamed being developed for the snes called fxfighter. The thing about the fx chip is that you could play 3d games on your snes without having to buy an addon or get a new piece of hardware. In-fact if I'm not mistaken the fx chip was created because the playstation snes addon fell through (due to nintendo pulling out)

dtaznpride
06-02-2006, 05:48 PM
Uhhh like umm I know what I'm talking about. The only thing you helped is your petty ego by trying to think of something witty and sarcastic to say. There there, it's ok, widdle fanboy. Pretty ignorant thinking people aren't up to snuff as to what's going on. Some of us just don't have the fanboy fevor as others but that shouldn't make it seem as though we don't pay attention. We're just not drooling and mopping up messes we made after hearing the news. I can't speak to your dance dance revolution skills at the clubs.

Only an idiot wouldn't recognize I was taking a jab at the gimpy commercials with the overly exaggerated movements of the Weee users. Good for you buying something like that just to replace a DVD player... *overly exaggerated golf clap*. Move along.

children please!

monkeybeach
06-02-2006, 05:59 PM
so i guess upgrading your PC with a new video card is also a gimmick? this is the same as getting a new video cards, except this came on the game cart. the reason there wasn't that many games on it was because it was expensive and i'm sure Nintendo told anyone interested in making 3D games to hold off and wait for the N64.

there was a Star Fox 2 for the SNES, but never released.

If my video card only had three damn titles I could play, then YES I would call it a gimmick.

I'm not arguing whether the SFX chip was a great piece of technology or not, I'm simply saying it had too little content to be interesting. If you have a car that runs on water and could fly you to the moon, AND shoot frickin' lazers while doing it, it would still be a piece of crap if you could never take it out of the garage. Are we supposed to be wowed by the fact that they never released Star Fox 2?

Revolution was a better name than wii, because that's what it could possibly do - change the way we play games. Star Fox didn't, and I don't think it was trying either. Playstation did, and that's not "Sony fanboyism", just stating the really obvious. As a developer I absolutely HATE Playstation, but there's no denying that it had a HUGE impact on what we play, and what we expect from games.

P_T
06-02-2006, 06:26 PM
Respect and acknowledgement are two separate things. I already posted on my thoughts about real respect and blind (or blanket) respect. I acknowledge what these companies have done for gaming. I'm aware of their contributions. I see a difference in the two.

You acknowledge their contributions to gaming but you don't respect them for it and you bash them, right...

I respected them for what they've contributed to gaming and now I respect them for what they're trying to do, which for me is to innovate gaming once again through their new controller design. That's not a blind respect.

One more thing. I don't particularly like the way Sony and MS are going with their consoles, mainly with their bluray/hddvd thing and their mostly just brute strength upgrade from last gen. I don't go around typing M$ or $ony in their threads to piss the fanboys off though. I also expect others who don't like Nintendo to do the same, it's called "mutual respect".

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 06:33 PM
You acknowledge their contributions to gaming but you don't respect them for it and you bash them, right...

One more thing. I don't particularly like the way Sony and MS are going with their consoles, mainly with their bluray/hddvd thing and their mostly just brute strength upgrade from last gen. I don't go around typing M$ or $ony in their threads to piss the fanboys off though. I also expect others who don't like Nintendo to do the same, it's called "mutual respect".

How did I bash "them". Who are "they"? You mean Nintendo? Or the gaming developers of Starfox, Mario and Nintendogs? Were you referring to my comments about the controller given the most hype while the games look lackluster, so far? Or the commericals with the overly exaggerated movements by the people on camera? Would that be considered bashing or giving my opinion on it, as you just gave your opinion on MS and Sony's brute strength upgrade from last gen? I guess that's your point of view as to what is bashing Nintendo or the developers, or "them".

I already explained my reasoning for spelling it Weee before. Do we need to go through this again? I still disagree with your point of view of respect (mutual or otherwise) with regards to this conversation. But again.. we each have our own point of view which won't be settled before this thread is closed by the admins.

pixelmonk
06-02-2006, 06:37 PM
Theres a huge issue with people using Xfire to hack servers and jump in games theyve been banned from, so I dont think you should expect to be able to use it in conjunction with sertain games in the future. Not in its current state anyway.

Yeah Xfire was just something still used in the community, like Roger Wilco or Ventrilo for voice. I was just imagining something that would be specific (obviously) for 360, PS3 and Wii's online offerings and used something on the PC as a reference.

NanoGator
06-02-2006, 06:40 PM
Easy, guys. No need to get worked up.

:)

jbo
06-02-2006, 10:44 PM
As a developer I absolutely HATE Playstation, but there's no denying that it had a HUGE impact on what we play, and what we expect from games.

I don't think anyone's denying that... but being an important milestone in the history of 3d games is a long way off from having invented 3d games. it's like if the beatles claimed to have invented music.

monkeybeach
06-02-2006, 11:12 PM
Or like Nintendo claiming to have invented motion sensitive game controllers...

But it's all semantics. It's the old Obi-wan, it all depends on your point of view. The invention was there before the Playstation, LONG before, but it wasn't the industry standard, and it was not popularized, not expected, and not really appreciated. Or very nice to look at :)

The Wrights weren't first, Bell wasn't either, Edison "borrowed" a LOT, Windows used to be Macintosh used to be Xerox etcetera etcetera ad nausea.. But they're the important "inventors" anyway, since their stuff is what we're using.

jbo
06-02-2006, 11:59 PM
Or like Nintendo claiming to have invented motion sensitive game controllers...

But it's all semantics. It's the old Obi-wan, it all depends on your point of view. The invention was there before the Playstation, LONG before, but it wasn't the industry standard, and it was not popularized, not expected, and not really appreciated. Or very nice to look at

First of all, i'm not disputing that playstation made huge leaps in the popularity of 3d games, but hailing them as being responsible for popularizing them is just not true. millions of people already had doom on their computers. and the acceptance of 3d games was very gradual. it's not like the playstation came out and 3d games instantly became popular. it certainly reached a new market, but i think you are giving sony way too much credit. however, none of this is really relevant. none of it makes what harrison said any less retarded.

Also, where did nintendo claim to invent a motion sensitive game controller?

monkeybeach
06-03-2006, 02:20 AM
First of all, i'm not disputing that playstation made huge leaps in the popularity of 3d games, but hailing them as being responsible for popularizing them is just not true. millions of people already had doom on their computers. and the acceptance of 3d games was very gradual. it's not like the playstation came out and 3d games instantly became popular. it certainly reached a new market, but i think you are giving sony way too much credit.

Ah, true of course, but I was thinking mainly about consoles. The Playstation did very little to revolutionize computer gaming, obviously :).

however, none of this is really relevant. none of it makes what harrison said any less retarded.

Also, where did nintendo claim to invent a motion sensitive game controller?

I never said they did, I was just building on your Beatles thing...

Anyway, what's actually so damn retarded about what that Harrison guy said?

He says that Sony introduced realtime 3d, not that they invented it, and from a console point of view that's just how it happened. Star Fox did come out one year earlier (which is really quite unbelievable when you consider how damn stone age it looks in comparison), but as I've already said before, Star Fox was NOT the title that launched 3d console gaming. It was just a little preview.

Then he says that two years later Nintendo a made console with features quite similar to the Playstation, and that Sony did not consider that stealing, in fact he emphasizes this, possibly even dismissing the notion as "a little stupid" (depending on how you interpret the text) because "such innovations become possible because of a combination of technology, cost and manufacture capacities." i.e. they did it because they could, not because they stole or copied.

He does look like a retard handling that controller though...

Grim Beefer
06-03-2006, 02:34 AM
This is a moral argument, so if you hate opinions read no further. I would say that given the huge amount of resources that any Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo must have at their disposal, it's an absolute scandal that they haven't been more innovative up to this point. The history of the modern personal computer is filled with innovators that did not have millions to bank their ideas on (as with the first microcomputer, the Altair 8800 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800)), and I think it borders on ridiculous to give most modern filthy-rich research teams that much "credit" for innovation. This procedure can and will generate innovation (as with the Atomic bomb), but is it really that unexpected given the preliminary resources? I am of the opinion that we should reserve "respect" for people that actually have to struggle to get their ideas out (you know, like Galileo, Socrates, Mary Wollstonecraft, most independant medical researchers, etc.). Can we honestly give "credit" to such monolithic victors when the odds were obviously stacked in their favor to excel? I take the inverse argument. I think we should be furious when such conglomerations of wealth are not utterly dazzling us with unprecedented wonders (that goes for you too Hollywood, and triple that for pharmaceuticals!). Perhaps all three of said companies in question once struggled to manifest their ideas, but alas, these days are long gone for them. Now they routinely spend their time trying to shut other such innovators out of the game, instead of having reverence for the conditions that allowed them to ascend to power in the first place (Nintendo used to be really bad about this during the NES days). I think underlying this is a pretty disturbing trend of corporate fetishism; people mistake the reverence of power for the reverence of excellence.




To quote Cyndi Lauper, "money changes everything".

jbo
06-03-2006, 07:01 AM
monkeybeach-

i just think that the psx/n64 comparison to the contoller issue is not at all valid... other than the obvious fact that nintendo did 3d first (i really don't see how the popularity or quantity of their attempt has any relevence), there's also the fact that the whole games industry was moving actively towards 3d. it's not the same as ripping off someone's design on a very specific thing. consoles were going to be 3d whether or not sony had anything to do with it. can you honestly say you think sony's controller would have the tilt function if it wasn't for wii?

and yeah, obviously the ps1 looks better than starfox despite them being only a year apart... a 2d console that's 3 years old with a little upgrade in it is obviously not going to look anywhere near as good as a dedicated 3d system from the future.

yhloon
06-03-2006, 07:47 AM
I don't care who introduce 3d gamming first, who bring up the vibration controller or anallogue stick first,which graphics is better or who created motion sencing controller first, I'll go for Wii.:bounce:


even though nintendo is not the first console introduce motion sencing, but they are the one who 'bundle' together with the console, in that case game developer is 'ready' to came out with game with motion sencing capabilities...


Xbox (or the others) might a head of nintendo in bring up the technology, but the controller is rather an 'optional' to the standard Xbox controller, not everyone can affort /interested to get another controller, and the main reason is not all game developer is supporting motion sencing, thas why it fail... :sad:




Loon
so sorry with my poor english also...
:scream:

monkeybeach
06-04-2006, 09:01 AM
i just think that the psx/n64 comparison to the contoller issue is not at all valid... other than the obvious fact that nintendo did 3d first (i really don't see how the popularity or quantity of their attempt has any relevence), there's also the fact that the whole games industry was moving actively towards 3d. it's not the same as ripping off someone's design on a very specific thing. consoles were going to be 3d whether or not sony had anything to do with§ it. can you honestly say you think sony's controller would have the tilt function if it wasn't for wii?

It's not about popularity or quantity really, what matters is the dumb design of the SFX chip. Even if there HAD been content available for it, people would not have bought it, because not even the most diehard fanboy would pay for the same hardware upgrade again and again every time they bought a game. It was a technology that would never last. So while Nintendo may have been first to feature 3d as a gimmicky tech demo, the Playstation was first to introduce it as an actuallly viable and vital part of the console.

The wiimote and the new tilt thingie Sony aren't all that similar really. Sony dropped the rumble to put in tilt control, which is quite fitting. The tilt control is a fun little addon, nothing critical or essential, much like the rumble. The wiimote, or the whole wii for that matter, is ALL about the pointing and waving. I don't think the wii inspired Sony to add the tilt thing, I think people's positive response to the wii lately inspired them to. When the wiimote was first announced, a lot of (if not most) people pretty much ridiculed it, so it's no big wonder that Sony didn't mention their control back then.

ParamountCell
06-04-2006, 10:24 AM
When the wiimote was first announced, a lot of (if not most) people pretty much ridiculed it, so it's no big wonder that Sony didn't mention their control back then.

No sony never had the idea then, Not even the developers of warhawk knew about the control about two weeks till e3.

PyRoT
06-04-2006, 10:43 AM
The wiimote and the new tilt thingie Sony aren't all that similar really. Sony dropped the rumble to put in tilt control, which is quite fitting. The tilt control is a fun little addon, nothing critical or essential, much like the rumble. The wiimote, or the whole wii for that matter, is ALL about the pointing and waving. I don't think the wii inspired Sony to add the tilt thing, I think people's positive response to the wii lately inspired them to. When the wiimote was first announced, a lot of (if not most) people pretty much ridiculed it, so it's no big wonder that Sony didn't mention their control back then.

Well, Sony took out the rumble and put in the tilt sensor. The Wii controller on the other hand, contains the motion sensor (tw of them with the nunchuk part), a rumble feature as well as a speaker!

And yeah, the fact that the tilt addon is a last minute job with Sony is obvious due to developrs themselves not knowing about it till really late before E3. One gaming site said that one developor actually learnt about it on the day!

One another note, I wonder why not many people mention the Eye-Toy. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems Sony was pretty innovative to introduce that, I've had heaps of fun with it. The singstar game is also very fun and innovative too! ..except for the fact the games contained very little songs.

sigh.. these consoles can't come any sooner. This whole console war in the world and on forums is starting to get annoying.

ParamountCell
06-04-2006, 04:28 PM
One another note, I wonder why not many people mention the Eye-Toy. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems Sony was pretty innovative to introduce that, I've had heaps of fun with it. The singstar game is also very fun and innovative too! ..except for the fact the games contained very little songs.



quite right, that eye of judgment game looks like it has some great potential, i started a thread on it a few weeks back, it doesnt seem like people are interested, not even sony seemed to interested in it. Did you know that the eye toy is also based on one of Nintendos earlier ideas for the 64dd? its a fact, google it lol :)

NanoGator
06-05-2006, 01:48 AM
The SuperFX chip added $10 to the cost of the cartridges. You'd have to buy a lot of SuperFX games to equal the cost of a new system. As for 'gimmicky', meh, I would have taken SuperFX games over something like the 32X attachment. It was a nice way to expand the capabilities of the system. Those days are gone, but man, Star Fox and Yoshi's Island were great games.

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