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View Full Version : Free “CG Character Design” Instructional Film via Google Video


JunaidKhan
05-22-2006, 08:39 PM
removed from log

bluemagicuk
05-23-2006, 08:28 AM
So was this an instructional video or a psychological, philosophical lecture ... ?

LucentDreams
05-23-2006, 08:59 AM
I regret sitting through 14 minutes of this, by the time one starts takling about thinking of drawing as neurons caisng your arm as atoms pushinf a pencicl which is atoms to draw which are atoms etc etc you've lost the purpose and goal.

Character design is about appeal, stereotype, functinoality, simple as that not about how powerful neuron networks affect social bubbles with extra terrestrial thought process.

JunaidKhan
05-23-2006, 03:35 PM
removed from log

Flog
05-23-2006, 04:16 PM
I'm glad they provided this for free, but I didn't understand a thing he was saying. It was a physcological peice of character design.

By the end of it I didn't know if my mom caused my childhood problems and the monster was my deepest representation of that resentment, lol.

Nah the artist is awesome and I understood a few things but I think for the general populace he could have simplified it. I will tell you however that he inspired me to start making videos using my knowledge.

"How to Design a Character"
and
"How a Geeky Guy Gets a Hot Girl"

Keep an eye out as I am going to do an extensive video on character design as part of my how to make a movie series.

slaughters
05-23-2006, 04:17 PM
To be fair, it states pretty clearly what the focus of the film will be about in the press release.

You can argue about whether they are right or not, but at least they tell you what it is about before you view the film.

Flog
05-23-2006, 04:20 PM
I don't think anyone is saying he is right or wrong. In fact I liked seeing him draw. It is just his approach to designing characters, however his approach was hard for folks to understand.

He went all ZEN BUDHA on us. It was his ideas however expressed and I'm sure many will appreciate his approach and understand his way of thinking.

schuubars
05-23-2006, 05:19 PM
He has an interesting approach, so im saying just thank you, i liked the vid.


Character design is about appeal, stereotype, functinoality, simple as that not about how powerful neuron networks affect social bubbles with extra terrestrial thought process.


You missed his point of view imo.

paulrus
05-23-2006, 05:51 PM
Unless you are serious about things like:

The Holographic Universe (http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html)
http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html

You may not be thrilled watching this video.

When he started talking about gaining alien thoughts I realized we'd gone outside the realm of design and into the Twilight Zone... (though if you can get through all the new age stuff, he does eventually get into actual design)

innermindseye
05-23-2006, 07:06 PM
When he started talking about gaining alien thoughts I realized we'd gone outside the realm of design and into the Twilight Zone...

hahahaha. this sounds hilarious...

but i still cant be bothered to watch it :hmm:

supergrover
05-23-2006, 07:28 PM
OMG this is incredibly annoying - a few minutes of that is all I can take!
SG

paulrus
05-23-2006, 08:00 PM
I put the video on my phone and let it run in the background while I worked today. I'm about 90% sure this guy is a "Holgraphic Universe" believer. A lot of what he talks about fits their beliefs.

He goes on to talk about how you can draw because you are getting the skills or information that has been genetically passed down by your ancestors.... I think that was one of the themes in Akira, wasn't it??

JunaidKhan
05-23-2006, 11:50 PM
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inneractive
05-23-2006, 11:58 PM
I just want to say thank you for the video. Many people may not understand that Riven is trying to help people tap into "original" ideas. In order to do that you must first recognize the thoughts you have that are not "original", but emulated. I think that makes some people feel uncomfortable, the idea that they are not individuals, but clones.

inneractive
05-24-2006, 12:02 AM
Unless you are serious about things like:
When he started talking about gaining alien thoughts I realized we'd gone outside the realm of design and into the Twilight Zone... (though if you can get through all the new age stuff, he does eventually get into actual design)

I disagree. I think the concept may be easier to relate to if it is described as "Thinking outside of the box", which is great for designers. However, that term is not so useful now that marketers have warped its meaning.

LucentDreams
05-24-2006, 12:16 AM
fact is no ones going to sit through two hours to get the conclusion.

and he's naive to think that any idea is truly original.

JunaidKhan
05-24-2006, 12:27 AM
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inneractive
05-24-2006, 12:28 AM
fact is no ones going to sit through two hours to get the conclusion.

and he's naive to think that any idea is truly original.

I have exprienced art that has made me feel that I had connected with a unique aspect of a person. The techniques used to create the art where not original, but the final image, sculpture, music, architecture, food, etcetera... said something about who the person was and revealed their uniqueness, or "originality".

vlad74
05-24-2006, 12:29 AM
Thank you JunaidKhan.
I find it very interesting. I watched the first 6 min. because I didnt have time, but I will definitely watch the whole movie.

Papa Lazarou
05-24-2006, 12:33 AM
I watched the whole thing, and I think it's hilarious.

I wouldn't mind all the pretensious waffle and bogus pseudoscience if I thought the actual design was any good. The rendering is quite good, but the design is all over the place. It's like he decided that "pushing the envelope" was the most important thing of all and came up with the most overwrought, over-complicated, unanimatable thing possible, purely for the sake of "pushing the technological envelope".

Since he's giving it away for free, I don't want to bash him too much. He's put a lot of effort into it and shows his drawing technique and you get to watch that, which I'm sure some will find helpful. Even though I didn't agree with him, I found it stimulating on certain level.

TroutMaskReplica
05-24-2006, 12:55 AM
his drawing reflects his inability to hold his train of thought.

i didn't find his narration 'new age' or 'pseudoscientific' as much as i found it garbled and meandering.

LucentDreams
05-24-2006, 01:05 AM
exactly waht I feel, not denying his artistic abilities at all either, I agree he's defintiiely got nice render skills, honeslty the designs themselves are nothing impressive, the main image reminds me of guyver style stuff.

its jsut a but of big words and waaaaaay over analyzed explanations on simple concetps such as utilizing steretypes to make a character more identifiable.

his wya of explaining how a hard line emotes different emotions and ideas that soft curved lines took 3 minutes and honeslty I had tow watch twice to get exactly what he was saying.

Papa Lazarou
05-24-2006, 01:24 AM
his drawing reflects his inability to hold his train of thought.

agreed.

i didn't find his narration 'new age' or 'pseudoscientific' as much as i found it garbled and meandering.
Not to mention long-winded and totally irrelevant. You don't need to understand what's going on on a molecular level and in the universe at large to be able to draw a picture. It's more than a half-hour in before he actually draws anything.

inneractive
05-24-2006, 02:05 AM
It's more than a half-hour in before he actually draws anything.


Isn't the first half hour the most important part? That is where he attempts to explain why people like the things they like, why they buy the things they buy. Without that knowledge how do you expect to create a concept that will sell?

inneractive
05-24-2006, 02:18 AM
its jsut a but of big words and waaaaaay over analyzed explanations on simple concetps such as utilizing steretypes to make a character more identifiable.


Yes, that is one aspect which is just basic marketing. But I think the technique Riven is trying to convey is how to create an original concept, but allow consumers to still connect with it by using the techniques you mentioned.

Sometimes things need a bit more analysis, otherwise you spread memes like "he's naive to think that any idea is truly original". Why limit our imaginations with statements like this? Do you even know why you said it, or who taught you that? If the universe is infinite with infinite possibilities, which is what science is now starting to encounter, why do humans limit their own thought with memes like the one you mentioned?

williamsburroughs
05-24-2006, 02:37 AM
What the Bleep do we know. :)

Let's all just settle down and read some Richard Bandler and Fritjof Capra before we make passing blanket judgements.

jn2art
05-24-2006, 03:26 AM
Saw this post went to link tried to watch video. I lost interest the minute he mentioned atoms. Although I do believe that Physics is a very important science I believe he may have just enjoyed hearing himself speak a bit much. Pseudo art Scienphysical mumbo stuff.

I f I had paid for this I would want my money back.

But I have to admire him for putting up the effort to do this. He is very bold to put him self out there like that. I also must say he has very nice rendering skills IMHO.

Jn2art

jdsb
05-24-2006, 04:27 AM
I find it pretty interesting, but i cant listen to it in one go because of time constraints, i hope my neuro connections and thought bubbles stick around till tomorrow.thanks for the video!

Ninjas
05-24-2006, 04:32 PM
Well. It was wierd. I think if you didn't watch the whole thing you were missing out on the fact that he says he doesn't really believe any of the stuff he is saying, but saying and thinking it improves his work.

I think his details have a really tight, dialed in, look to them. The concept is "out there", but as a concept artist I often get stuck on how to come up with new details. I think I got a little bit out of watching it.

JunaidKhan
05-24-2006, 06:29 PM
removed from log

Ninjas
05-24-2006, 06:36 PM
Double post

TroutMaskReplica
05-24-2006, 06:38 PM
Well. It was wierd. I think if you didn't watch the whole thing you were missing out on the fact that he says he doesn't really believe any of the stuff he is saying, but saying and thinking it improves his work.

i skimmed through the video and missed this bit. is it near the beginning or end?

JunaidKhan
05-24-2006, 07:11 PM
removed from log

schuubars
05-24-2006, 07:14 PM
I think it was the last minutes.
i skimmed through the video and missed this bit. is it near the beginning or end?

squidinc
05-24-2006, 07:37 PM
why isn't there a yawn emote?


oh wait.. a scream is close :scream:

Kanga
05-25-2006, 08:43 AM
You are watching Riven Phoenix Demonstrating to you a very Powerful Mind Trick to help you understand Creativity. Historically what he is doing is called ‘Artistic Thinking’. The ideas are not his beliefs, it is a very Powerful Psychological Trick used by Professional Artists in leading companies.


Since this is on an open forum would it be ok to disagree with you? If I do that will you repeat your paragraph again?

You are watching Riven Phoenix Demonstrating to you a very Powerful Mind Trick to help you understand Creativity. Historically what he is doing is called ‘Artistic Thinking’. The ideas are not his beliefs, it is a very Powerful Psychological Trick used by Professional Artists in leading companies.


Well did you see that? Ha! You just witnessed me crushing the Ctrl+C then sequence Ctrl+V atoms on my keyboard!

What a bunch of ...... Why is it so hard for people to accept that drawing well and designing is just alert hard practice. There aint no voodo in it at all. What I heard was alot of general scientific knowledge that was often contradictory. It's what we used to call mumbo jumbo.

The detailing in his drawings is rich but the base forms are distorted as is the perspective. The drawings have little weight and not much deep dynamics. Detailing a design won't do it that is only skin. Drawing and designing goes deeper.

People don't need 'mind tricks' they need to practice and observe. Any economically priced drawing book will give you the basics.

Maybe the fellow drew so much he just went bananas.

Good Lord.

Edit: please dont copy paste that particular paragraph again,... it doesn't make you right it makes the paragraph annoying!

Atwooki
05-25-2006, 10:50 AM
Since this is on an open forum would it be ok to disagree with you? If I do that will you repeat your paragraph again?Took the words out of my mouth, Chris ;)
BTW, I'm a little bemused by all this waffle, and is please do tell: is the end result of all this psychobabble the mediocre character daubs in evidence on the site?!?!

>>>waiting for the next copy/paste<<<:rolleyes:

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 02:59 PM
removed from log

Atwooki
05-25-2006, 03:25 PM
Well, we're all different in our various approaches creatively (a good thing!), and if this method works for your friend, great.
Personally I've been designing and drawing professionally for a little over 20 years myself (and I believe Kanga has also :) ), and during that time (again personally speaking) my own thought pattern / approach has simply been to be energetic, relaxed, and able to immerse myself fully in my imagination and subject matter to get things flowing and working - the more practice, the more ones confidence grows etc... occasionally during 'the process' slipping back to a more objective POV to analyse the resultant progress from time to time ;) - (just my 5,000,000 cents)

Chris

squidinc
05-25-2006, 03:54 PM
[size=3][color=white][font=Times New Roman][size=3][color=white]You missed his point. He is not talking to you at all, he is controlling his brain. The mambo jumbo he uses is to force his brain to think outside the box.. etc etc

honestly.. this is starting to sound like some elaborate joke

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 04:20 PM
removed from log

LucentDreams
05-25-2006, 04:22 PM
wow the superiority complex kicking in by JunaidKhan is not helping either. The comment:

We have gotten a lot of great feedback but generally Professional Artists already predicted the general population will not understand his technique without a solid Art education.

blows me away, to immediately assume that any of us commenting on this are uneducated and amateurs is ridiculous. yes there may be a lot fo 14 yer old newbs on the forums, but your talking to some seriously tlaented and experienced artists here, and I think most of us are qualified in our comments. I come not only fromt he artistic training and experience side, but also as someone whose been taching aniamtion and 3D for a fair number of those years too so in my input I;m looking at this both in what its trying to teach and how its being taught.


The fact is he's taken simple concepts on how we think while drawing, and dissected them to the point of incomprehensible babble.

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 04:29 PM
removed from log

Ninjas
05-25-2006, 04:36 PM
You have to watch it to the end to understand what he's actually talking about. At one point he says he doesn't believe the stuff he has been saying. That he has been saying it so that he can think in a more creative way. That's it. That is what the video is about.

I think his details are very tight and dialed in. I thought the fact that he used pencil and paper absurd, and I can't think of a single pro doing game concepts who uses anything except Photoshop and a Wacom. I also thought the concept was "out there", and while techinically fitting the brief, it would be an awful character design for a main character. It wouldn't even be a very good creature design without a ton more refinement.

I did like his "think outside the box" way of getting to more and richer detail. This is an area I have a hard time with personally. I have painted so many damn space marines that I just run out of things to think about them.

It's pretty obvious that this video is not for people trying to learn to draw. You can't, like he says, get master level skills just by thinking you have them. It takes years and years of practice. There is no other way. On the other hand, it reflects a truth I realized a long time ago. That if you pretend long enough, you really do start to become like what you pretend to be.

Thanks guys, I found it entertaining and maybe it will help me improve some small amount, which would be remarkable.

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 05:14 PM
removed from log

Ninjas
05-25-2006, 05:31 PM
I wouldn't take the internet too seriously. You should have known some people were going to make fun of him even if it was the coolest thing in the world.

I think that the film is fine. I think the titles could be tighter at the begining, and that you could cut maybe half an hour out of it. Probably the best stuff to cut out is the more outlandish comments. The stuff at the end where he is talking about people killing their family and feeling guilty in video games is intense, but weird. Maybe that part would rub game artists the wrong way. I would slim it down to an hour and a half probably and I like the current intro, and I would keep it, but I would create a new preface to give the viewer an idea of what they are watching.

That brings up the point that CG talk isn't focused as a game artist community. It is kind of hard to tell how folks in the industry would react to this sort of thing.

As an artist, your friend probably already has a thck skin when it comes to his work.

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 06:06 PM
removed from log

DazP
05-25-2006, 06:37 PM
Junaid, the video was interesting (in parts) so thanks for posting. I think you have talent. If you want some genuine feedback:

1) Simplify your explanation of thought process dramatically and condense the thing. Really, no matter what it all means and wether or not we 'get it' is completely irrelevant If it is not engaging to watch. The VAST majority of people that watch it are going to start skipping.

2) Lose the persona thing. It's obvious that you and Riven are one and the same person. Trying to make your outfit seem more professional and established by appearing to have a representitive or agent that operates and posts on your behalf, is a little lame and I think you'll lose credibility for that.

oXYnary
05-25-2006, 06:38 PM
I think this is more needed as a public release on the web (i mean not for sale also). Separated from the idea of concept drawing. Thats the mistake being made here. You say concept drawing in your title so using the own marketing theory that Riven covers, we are focusing in on that and our own preconceptions are not preparing us for this. Which works exactly into what Riven is trying to say.

The problem is as a professional company product. It cant work alone as a sellable item. If you instead marketed it as how the inner thought process of a character artist works to help people get an idea of what is happening in his head to help him reach the point of creation. It may work. But then, the inside point Riven is trying to get across to the viewer wouldn't "slam dunk". It may be a bit like telling a joke. His timing is off by waiting to the end.

Overall though you are making one mistake when you mentioned earlier trained artist background and techniques to understand. I have as such, and have worked on conceptually and symbolic based ideals (fine art wise though), so Im used to this BS we do. However, a video format just doesnt work that well in this, as per it's not interactive.

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 07:03 PM
removed from log

Charkins
05-25-2006, 08:03 PM
From the sound of it, I would really enjoy watching this video. However... its not up anymore! Ah!

I would have thought people to be more grateful for -free- knowledge, even if they don't understand it. I like knowledge.

Does anyone have a copy of it that they can share with me?

JunaidKhan
05-25-2006, 09:57 PM
removed from log

Flog
05-25-2006, 10:13 PM
I get it now, check out this article below. He's doing his thinking from another point of view. That of an Alien.


UST FOR THE MOMENT, imagine humanity from the viewpoint of some alien consciousness at least as developed as ours, but without the imposed order of state control as a focusing element of its evolution and culture. This intelligence may have music, dance, art, design, cuisine, architecture, communication, science, love, fashion, high technology, clubs, pubs, sports, humour, drama, means of travel, animal friends and all the other changing elements we treasure in our own culture. After all, none of them were conceived, planned or developed by the state, though from time to time the state may seek to influence, support or control different aspects of them for the supposed benefit of us all. OK, you assume that this alien must have a central commander and head of state even though they are not needed for any of the above cultural achievements, nor even to build spaceships. You assume this because central command is all that we have in our own limited frame of reference. It certainly IS NOT the natural state. You have only to look around you to realise that every other intelligent life form which shares this Earth with us has operated successfully for millennia without any form of central controlling structure for the species. The dinosaur dominated for thirty five times the period that we have been on the planet, as far as we know without the benefit of any parliament, king or other ruling body.http://energygrid.com/images/arrowupg.gif (http://energygrid.com/society/2002/00gs-uncommonsense.html#top)As far as I am aware, even ants have no central code of law defining specific punishments for ants that step out of line. In their specific "one-mind" type of community however, it is likely that any ant choosing not to contribute in the expected manner would soon lose the support of its colony and therefore die. I know of no voting council of trees which determines the specific proportions and varieties of trees in a given forest. It is interesting and significant that in many cases, such as the oak*, the long-term successful species has figured out how to cooperate with as many other species as possible. This ability to cooperate with other forms of life is a far more intelligent long-term survival strategy than is that of domination and control by rulers and ruling bodies. * The oak tree acts as a mini-biosphere for up to 300 other varieties of life-form. Why do we assume that some other intelligent species, even more successful" than us, will have the same sort of flawed structures as ourselves, with different names for the leaders and law-making bodies? Why is it so inconceivable to us that any other civilization could be operating, as does every successful structure in the universe — in a state of freedom? These aren't deep questions — they just reveal the deep ruts in which our own imagination is trapped.http://energygrid.com/images/arrowupg.gif (http://energygrid.com/society/2002/00gs-uncommonsense.html#top)We also assume that any intelligent creature capable of space travel will come equipped with ray guns, ionic blasters, phaser bolts and a full arsenal of high-tech weaponry with which to kill and destroy. Why? We humans have experienced a dramatic and possibly unique evolution of ways to kill each other on this planet. A mainstay of our chosen cultural entertainment involves depictions of us killing each other in countless war and confrontational movies. Are we to assume that this is a normal or natural element of any highly developed civilisation? Our alien may have learned how to travel along the fractal patterns of hyperspace and be able to outmanoeuvre a missile or fighter jet. But it is quite possible that its civilization never figured out how to split the atom. Maybe it never had the fear of a Hitler to inspire its scientists to tap such a destructive force. The consequences of this discovery appear to have been universally negative and now pose an added threat to our own survival. Yet we assume that a higher alien intelligence will have even greater means of destruction at its disposal. This is a basically illogical assumption.http://energygrid.com/images/arrowupg.gif (http://energygrid.com/society/2002/00gs-uncommonsense.html#top)We assume that our highly developed alien will have a very highly developed state and well-regulated society. Yet what does the central controlling state actually give to us, not one specific state here or there, but the beast in general the totality of states running their own big and little countries around the world? They primarily exist to protect us from other versions of themselves. It is difficult to find anything else they do which we treasure, or are satisfied by. They take vast sums of money from us and piss back a little here and there, sprinkling some on the poor and hungry if they are left wing, or subsidizing the unworthy and unnecessary if they are right wing. The vast majority of it though, whichever wing of the bird the centre tilts toward, is wasted and squandered in useless, unproductive and often downright damaging activities. Probably 80% of what the state does is unnecessary or unproductive, things we are quite capable of sorting out in society without resort to one ruling body, supported by police, the military, nuclear arsenals, parliaments, dictators, presidents and vast armies of bureaucrats; like which side of the road we drive on, what size packet our pasta is sold in, how we generate electricity, what constitutes an acceptable dwelling or house, how two people make a commitment to each other, what types of medicine we use, or how long can we work in a week. Don't imagine that we would live in some disordered mess without a central command issuing all these rules. Wherever they don't exist in our society we seem to have developed real order. We will read more about the reliable aspects of our culture that developed from its own chaotic interactions rather than by government directive.http://energygrid.com/images/arrowupg.gif (http://energygrid.com/society/2002/00gs-uncommonsense.html#top)The other 20% of the state's frame of activities consists of valuable and necessary functions that society needs. Unfortunately, the state does a lousy job in these areas and it is getting worse rather than better. These functions include arenas that vary from state to state, but usually include some mix of essential areas such as education, roads, health care, power, protection from crime, safety regulation, charity, transportation or the press. The state does not govern these areas, it seeks to control them to the best of its abilities. So what happened to our alien? Well, I hope that he or she will spend enough time to feel a sense of awe for the beauty of this planet and for many of the wonderful technological and cultural achievements arising from our own unique evolution through the chaos of society. But, if our alien is intelligent, it would not take it very long to recognise that Planet Earth is a dangerous place for its own massively armed human inhabitants, let alone a relatively peaceful creature visiting from another world. We can understand why our visitor might have reticence about "coming out" in our civilization, and frequently may need to "hyperspace" it back to a civilization whose inhabitants had long ago found peace and stability without the need to continually control and kill each other in its pursuit. They will also, perhaps, have found ways to do this without raping and damaging the ecosystem that supports them. And I think it unlikely that our alien would willingly choose to share the secrets of space travel with us

bluemagicuk
05-25-2006, 10:42 PM
I totally did not get it, it seems like a pretty good marketing scheme though.
It also reminds me of ... jp3

"Did you read Malcolms book ?"
"yea"
"What did you think?"
"I dunno it was kind of preachy, too much chaos ... you know it seemed like the guy was kind of high on himself"
"Well thats 2 things we have in common."


That was a great read btw flog :thumbsup: shame i cant discuss it here, damm politics and damm politicians 80% of the time.

Kanga
05-25-2006, 11:54 PM
I do not mind people trying to make a buck and promote themselves at all. I do feel however that any artist has a moral responsibility to pass on usefull and accurate information on to up and comming talent. Most of the video was wrong. Be responsible and retitle the instruction 'one man's approach to character design' never master class.

Whoever this man is in the video he has brocken almost every guidline that excists conscerning the art of teaching. I would call it a cult approach. If there are people out there that appreciate what is said and demonstrated that is fine. I do however find the instruction faulty. This is just not a good way to draw and the approach and thinking are not efficient and yeild results that I believe would not stand up to a truely productive environment.

You may wrestle over words as long as you will but at the end of the day drawing is about clearing your mind of all the rubbish that it accumulates and concentrating on,..... just that, drawing.

At almost 50 years of age I am probably twice as old as the fellow in the video and have been engaged in art twice as long. In that time I have taught not only art but everything from music to how to ambush troops in the dark. The absolute first thing we learned was how to teach. Make sure everything you say is accurate and be assured that you are talking to your audience. Some of the people you are teaching may know more than you do. At my age I am receiving lessons from an absolute master and he finishes every lesson with the words: "This is one approach".

Please retitle the disertation aired. Be responsible.

JunaidKhan
05-27-2006, 04:18 AM
Admin. please remove this thread. It was a mistake.

jdsb
05-27-2006, 04:51 AM
i really wanted to watch the remaining half of the video, too bad its not available anywhere:cry: , why did you delete all of it man:banghead:.

schuubars
05-27-2006, 05:57 AM
Now, i don't get it anymore....

jCoops
05-27-2006, 06:00 AM
Wow man you sound really heavy. You obviously are very passionate about it all which is a good thing but you're taking what people have said too personally. I myself liked the video, a tad too long maybe, but thats all. I could hear where you were coming from but I was really just interested in the art work itself. Each to their own.
Everyone has a chip their shoulder and the hate mail you received is probably only them wanting to vent.
I hope you've got some back ups cause throwing away a years worth of work like that is craziness.
Keep at it and it'll all fit together.
Josh

edit:RE hate mail you got. remember, people behave on the internet in ways that they would never in real life.

schuubars
05-27-2006, 06:06 AM
If this whole thing is not a joke i woul'd really suggest to put the movie back to google...ok maybe without email adress, i personally liked the video.

But if it is a joke, then a pretty bad one.

Wow man you sound really heavy. You obviously are very passionate about it all which is a good thing but you're taking what people have said too personally. I myself liked the video, a tad too long maybe, but thats all. I could hear where you were coming from but I was really just interested in the art work itself. Each to their own.
Everyone has a chip their shoulder and the hate mail you received is probably only them wanting to vent.
I hope you've got some back ups cause throwing away a years worth of work like that is craziness.
Keep at it and it'll all fit together.
Josh

bluemagicuk
05-27-2006, 03:32 PM
Chill out man . People just did not "get" what you were talking about ... no big deal so what, and as for those suckers that are sending you hate mail, they are just loosers with too much time on their hands and with nuthin better to do. Dont freak out because of the opinions of the masses, you should always believe in yourself but take on board healthy criticism.

Even though it was thought provoking and made me use my imagination, I am sorry that i didnt "get it" but i will do as you wish and forget i ever watched it.

Plus half the people here thought it was cool and im sure you wouldnt get hate mail from cgtalkers, they are good folks here for the most part you know. Peace

innermindseye
05-27-2006, 11:50 PM
i think the video is fine if it is looked at as one persons 'Psychology of art'.....

i watched the whole thing before it got taken down, and as with everything, i learned something. therefore it served its purpose. i thought a lot was over the top. but its also good to hear these things. understand how some others may think and what works for them.


i cant poo poo it and say its a waste like some. thats abit stupid/ignorant. at the same time its not for everybody. I would say a mature mind is required as it is sooo easy to make fun of it. i dont mean that in a bad way, but you have to be mature to not make fun, and actually commend it for what points it makes.

i learned a lot from and enjoyed watching the dev stages of your ideas.

Ninja stated that nobody uses pencil paper no more. If that is the case than that is a mjor shame for them. i cant imagine a sadder state of affairs. Computers were not meant to replace paper. they were meant to compliment it. Id hate to limit myself by not being able to draw cos im not near a computer. Or having to wait for startup just to do a doodle or brainstorm. pretty closed minded i think. PLus what would i do with all my sharpeners!!

jason manley
05-28-2006, 07:25 AM
I think his details are very tight and dialed in. I thought the fact that he used pencil and paper absurd, and I can't think of a single pro doing game concepts who uses anything except Photoshop and a Wacom..

Massive Black has the largest professional concept design team in the games industry. .

photoshop and painter are simply tools of choice for full color work. Since half the concept process is sketches, many on our team work in pencil on bristol. one of the guys did a full painting in oils a couple weeks ago since it was easier to get the results the client needed with traditional media.

all tools have their uses. if we needed to concept with charcole briquettes, we would.



jason manley
massive black inc.

dalmanna
05-28-2006, 07:34 AM
Massive Black has the largest professional concept design team in the games industry. .

photoshop and painter are simply tools of choice for full color work. Since half the concept process is sketches, many on our team work in pencil on bristol. one of the guys did a full painting in oils a couple weeks ago since it was easier to get the results the client needed with traditional media.

all tools have their uses. if we needed to concept with charcole briquettes, we would.



jason manley
massive black inc.


well said, whatever works is the tool that the pro's use:D

LucentDreams
05-28-2006, 10:26 AM
Massive Black has the largest professional concept design team in the games industry. .

photoshop and painter are simply tools of choice for full color work. Since half the concept process is sketches, many on our team work in pencil on bristol. one of the guys did a full painting in oils a couple weeks ago since it was easier to get the results the client needed with traditional media.

all tools have their uses. if we needed to concept with charcole briquettes, we would.



jason manley
massive black inc.


would you be looking for a concept artist who likes doing macaroni collages? :D worth a try at least ;)

have to agree though, I dont' know a studio that doesn't have some traditional stuff done even before you see the fancy PS works and such. Fact is during a metting I cnas tit heir with my notepad and doodle. don't have to tell my mind all sorts of thoughts to trick it while I"m listening to the art director either.

innermindseye
05-28-2006, 03:35 PM
well said, whatever works is the tool that the pro's use:D

i thought i said it better:scream: (and first)

Ninjas
05-28-2006, 04:18 PM
I should have qualified it by saying "I can't think of a single pro doing game concepts who uses anything except Photoshop and a Wacom as their primary production technique"
Even then, some of the better artists I know of are starting to use 3D renders as a base to start from.

I would paint in my own blood if a client paid me enough. The fact is that I can do 4 roughly finished pieces in PS in the time it takes one thin layer of oil paint to dry.

innermindseye
05-28-2006, 05:00 PM
I should have qualified it by saying "I can't think of a single pro doing game concepts who uses anything except Photoshop and a Wacom as their primary production technique"
Even then, some of the better artists I know of are starting to use 3D renders as a base to start from.

I would paint in my own blood if a client paid me enough. The fact is that I can do 4 roughly finished pieces in PS in the time it takes one thin layer of oil paint to dry.

yea but youd be using a pencil to do 4 rough sketches and not oil paintings right???

ur probably right though. im sure in the industry people are starting to put the easel away.

vANON
05-29-2006, 07:12 PM
ooh, love the sudden secrecy. would love to watch it, despite it being horrible or whatever people are saying about it.

jdsb
05-29-2006, 09:25 PM
imagine this... i am halfway through it:banghead: ,can i see the rest of it somewhere please:banghead::argh:

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