"PAINTOVER PLEASE" - painted crits on demand - with Steven Stahlberg

[slangford]

hello sir...
Im picking back up an older piece and realized why I stopped working on it in the first place. Im stuck. I thought I put it up for alittle C&C. Any anatomy suggestions? lighting? need the most help around the face. Its supposed to be like the old Pin-up style.. kinda bettie page tribute. Thanks for everything.

_slangford

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v122/slangford/CGTALK/Devil_preview.jpg

[chisheng]

slangford: Nice picture. The composition for a pinup is good, the form and drawing is good. It's just that you need more contrast, especially in the skin. More light to dark and different hues.

[Samst0r]

Hey,

This photo looks so much better than my painting and i was wondering if you could make it more like the photo as it was based on the photo.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/Samst0r/peng.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a78/Samst0r/penguin.jpg

Thanks for your help in advance :D

Sam

[Stahlberg]

The six latest ones:

http://www.androidblues.com/POP149.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP150.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP151.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP152.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP153.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP154.gif

.

[DDS]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg, thanks for the paint over!!!

I like a lot how you made him stand out more and at the same time made the background look more foggy and mysterious.

By the way, the fact of having him heavily sunlit and the background in a clouds/fog mood makes sense to my eyes, but I don't know if doing it without showing the sun itself showing through the clouds breaks some kind of rule. Just wondering...I'm a total newbie in illustration.

Thanks again, I like it more :thumbsup:

[Stahlberg]

Glad you like it! :)
The lighting, well I always fake it a little if I have to, because to me the more important thing is the result not whether it's plausible or not... but in this case I think it's not UN-plausible, that the lighting could look like this, all it takes to mute the light on the wall would be a very porous surface, like stone (which often 'sucks' light), and light striking it at an acute angle. This would tend to make the wall much darker than the skin. Further, it's possible to imagine some kind of outcropping to the right, nothing huge just a little ridge or something, that would throw a shadow across the wall. I think it's important to sort of mold the environment to your needs, to what you want it to look like. :)

[DDS]

mmh really nice tips...they will be extremely useful in future occasions.

Thanks again!

[Katrigan]

Hello Mr Stahlberg,

I would like you to cast an eye over my image. I've tried to paint a chaotic atmosphere, with a burning castle which means the end of monarchy. Maybe the stone of walls should be more textured, or maybe the people should look more "human". The light might be also wrong...

Thank you really for your time and your work.

http://kasiu.free.fr/ref_close/declin_final.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Katrigan, nice pic, I like the colors. I'll paint over it in a little while, but for now a couple text comments:
the roof should be burning before anything else burns, usually, as heat rises and it's made of wood. It works like the wick of a candle. See these reference below:

Also, the crowd is a bit too close together and is difficult to read as people. I'll show you what I mean later.

[Samst0r]

thanks steven for the paint over, it looks soo much better :D

Sam

[TimonQ]

Very nice. Thanks so much for taking a look at it! Now to get back to work on it.

[bearfoot]

hey steven


many thanks for your paintover -- not sure its the direction i will go with the image but your crits have given me other ideas which maybe help even more.


once again many thanks

cheers
n

[yueyume]

Hello Mr. Stahlberg :) thank you so much for doing this. I've wanted to post this picture for a while, but I tried to finish it as much I can before that. Unfortunately I'm pretty stuck now...would you please take a look? http://www.silveraine.net/hellooo/gits2.jpg

I think on most of the paint overs the most striking thing you change is the overal lighting, which really improves/creates the mood. Well this painting (which is a fan piece actually) is one that needs a lighting fixer upper...I wanted to have three light sources, but I can't seem to make it work. There's the sun, the gunfire from the gun shes holding, and they're supposedly falling into something like a "digital world" (eek doesn't that sound cheesy :p), which emits a blue glow. Can the blue glow be added without making it too complicated?

Also, I tried to add movement by making their hair flow a bit, but it didn't really work, so if I was to add something like motion blur, do you have any tips as to where to add it? Or is there a better way to create some movement?

Other than that...is anything else that should be changed?

Well thank you so much for looking at this, I reeally appreciate you doing this. :D

[rblitz7]

Hey Steven, I was just messing around in photoshop, maby you could come up with something creative with this
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9403/1un6.jpg
its up to you if you want to do a paintover, I realize its really basic.

[ewkn]

I need some serious help with this image.. It just doesnt make any sense.. can you help me out a littlebit please? http://robin.reign.se/skit/come--neweditweb2.jpg

fullview: http://robin.reign.se/skit/come-clarity-webhigh3.jpg

[Stahlberg]

rblitz7, what is that in the background, a nuclear explosion or something smaller?

ewkn, what is actually going on in this picture, what's the backstory?

.

[jmBoekestein]

Great stuff in here, very educational. :)
I've been dabbling around a lot but never dared a ful environment. So this is my first go it has some hours in it, but I think this is the time to get some help before I foul up terribly lol.

So it's basically two nukes going off in the background dropped by the dreadnaughts in view, I guess this is working towards good blocking in order to do a matte painting of imaginary scenery.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9901/environment1006ks4.jpg

[ewkn]

this is a prisoner in a futuristic yet, old designed city. The things connected to his arms sucks his life energy away and supplys the city with power. This is a prisoner of war btw
New update available now with some armor on
fullview: http://robin.reign.se/skit/come--neweditions3.jpg
http://robin.reign.se/skit/come--neweditweb3.jpg

[TheShow]

This is an image that I took from a marker sketch to this painted version which I considered final. However, I still think there are large parts that are not working. Perhaps the lighting is not stark enough? Perhaps the additional huminoid character is too odd and should be removed ?- I appreciate any advice or adjustment you could offer to help improve the piece.

Thanks a lot.

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/117571/117571_1144884235_submedium.jpg

[Stahlberg]

TheShow, so the little guy is ripping the big one to pieces?
One problem with this one is how the big machine is almost 'orthogonal' in it's angle to the camera, something that would never happen in real life, but which nonetheless is a very popular way to draw or paint objects, especially by beginners... because naturally it's easier, you don't have to deal with perspective. But this is a tendency, a bad habit, that must be fought. :)
Since it's hard for me to know the real 3d shape of this robot now, I'm going to have to guess it, so don't pay any attention if I get it wrong ok. :)

As you correctly guess, I also think the lighting is a bit non-descript (I'll show you what I mean later).

[rblitz7]

rblitz7, what is that in the background, a nuclear explosion or something smaller?

Yeah, its an explosion but its too big now that I look, the size of the buildings would be good. Not sure how familiar you are with the games Halo and Halo 2 but heres some ref...
http://www.hardwired.hu/img/hir2/halo-2-20040817091158280.jpeg
http://media.gamespy.com/columns/image/article/566/566654/top-10-first-person-melee-weapons-20041116034037743.jpg
http://www.fpsgamer.co.uk/wallpaper/halo2_2.jpg
http://media.teamxbox.com/dailyposts/boxart/halo2_standard_uk/standard_2D_hi-res.jpg

[TheShow]

TheShow, so the little guy is ripping the big one to pieces?
That's right - I imagined more of them in the concept but this is the only one that clung on.

One problem with this one is how the big machine is almost 'orthogonal' in it's angle to the camera, something that would never happen in real life, but which nonetheless is a very popular way to draw or paint objects, especially by beginners... because naturally it's easier, you don't have to deal with perspective. But this is a tendency, a bad habit, that must be fought. :)

Great point - the concept was much more dramatic and had a lot more of an angle to it but was passed on . . .


Since it's hard for me to know the real 3d shape of this robot now, I'm going to have to guess it, so don't pay any attention if I get it wrong ok. :)

Fair enough - i'm grateful for any input.

As you correctly guess, I also think the lighting is a bit non-descript (I'll show you what I mean later).

It is somthing that I am working on im my 3D pieces as well. . . thank you very much for the comments!

[whiterat]

Mr Stahlberg thanks for doing this. This work has reached a point where I can´t find any way of get it better. I sense that I am not too far of it but the road is blocked. So ...I pass it to you...

THANK YOU!!

[MikeTheHunter]

Steven - on the 28th page you did an overpaint of my sketch, which I'd like to thank you very much for :) And again - I'd like to thank you for what you're doing here. :)

Attaching a sketch again. :)

http://www.androidblues.com/POP127.gif

[seethrou]

I'm trying my best to finish this illustraton but when I think I'm done something doesn't look rigth, I just can't seem to see what it is. My goal is to create a scene where it is a day off, the title being "lazy days, I wanted to post this but it feels like it is unfinished and that all the elements don't support one theme. please help...thank you!
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/seethrou/for-caedance.jpg

[Grugi]

I love this thread, lots of usefull tips and ideas here :)

I´m working on a 3d womans portrait at the moment, my first serious attempt to create a 3d beauty and it is really challenging. I think I have to practice the female forms for years before I can create a real beauty in 3d.Most of the time I´ve modelled monster,animals or men, but a woman is a whole different field.

I want the woman to be young and beautyfull and a colorsheme/lighting/composition that translate a kind of meditative/pretty dark (though not too dark) mood. I want a lot of emotion coming from the eyes. I have some problems with the skinshading, maybe the look is too smooth now due to the lack of texture/color variation in the skin.

I would really appreciate some suggestions from one of the best digital female creators out there :) ;)


-Grugi

[flutear]

i got a problem with the anatomy of the dryad (the girl with the leaves-covered hair ) and the unicorn (its body is like horse's) ,help me plz :(( :(( :((
would u plz give me some hints to make a warmth ,,romantic ,the ground full of dry leaves and autumn background
i paint this for a autumn topic

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j274/duyhienlt/dryadunicorn.jpg

[InKraBid]

To me it looks like the unicorn is in perspective, but the dryad isnt.

[slickgreekgeo]

It seems I need to push my anatomy skills a bit further. I was wondering if you can reccommend any books or tutorials to your liking? Thanks for the paintover btw, much appreciated.

[Stahlberg]

No problem
was wondering if you can reccommend any books or tutorials to your liking?
Well here's a post I helped in preparing, not sure if you've seen it already
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=2109069#post2109069

When it comes to tutorials, I'm not sure, I know there's a lot of activities going on in Rebecca Kimmel's anatomy forums, not sure how much youv'e browsed around there
http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=177

[stephanmaya]

Steven,

First of all, thanks for helping us little guys out here! You're a saint!

I did this supergirl painting, which I thought was kinda good. I wanted the gloomy green of a thick almost swamp forest to engulf the characters. To tell you the truth, I just want your advice on where I can improve the painting. Can you give me a few tips please...

I really appreciate this. Thanks a million!!!

Stephan.

[ewkn]

stahlberg did you forget about my post or didnt you wanna work on it?
I know its a littlebit messy but just give it a try.. I want it have more impact on the person who is watching the picture.. Maybe the prisoner should shout out in pain, or his soul be sucking away.

[Stahlberg]

stahlberg did you forget about my post
I haven't done anyone's pics yet in the last batch. I'll get around to it soon don't worry. Been a bit busy this week.

.

[RalphDamiani]

I think he's not skipping any piece, it just takes him time with the long queue. :thumbsup:

[ewkn]

Yes i thought so too, but just wanted to make sure :D
thank you for your time.. we all love you !

[Wexter]

Yes i thought so too, but just wanted to make sure :D
thank you for your time.. we all love you !

yes we are pacient, because we want to see your great talent and effort again....thanks for been so inspirational for me and i think for the rest of the comunity that check this post...

is a must for me every day to check out your news advises :)


respekt!
wexter

[umbrellasky]

hey Stahlberg, it's awesome what your doing here! Some great paint overs. I have a piece I'd like to post but...I can see there's quite a few pieces already in the que, so I will come back later :D

[Stahlberg]

Ok guys sorry for the long wait, here's two more
ewkn yours is up next :)

http://www.androidblues.com/POP155.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP156.gif


.

[Stahlberg]

Two more: . . . . . .

http://www.androidblues.com/POP157.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP158.gif


.

[TheShow]

Oh boy! Am I up next?

[Katrigan]

Wow !! Thank you very much Mr Stahlberg, my image is so magic now, really you make it more "in" ! This is really wonderful.

[RalphDamiani]

Wow, nice batch. :thumbsup:

[rblitz7]

WOW!!:eek: Sweet! Way more than what I was expecting. Thanks so much Stahlberg!:scream:

[aldog]

It's kind of hard for me to figure out how caught up you are, I don't want to post one right now if there's already a huge line, so I'm sorry if there is.

here's my image
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/3166/superherobuddies11smallmz3.jpg

I think there doesn't need to be too much explanation with it, but I'll do what I can.
I wanted to do something that was me and my friend because we call each other "super hero buddies", so this is supposed to be him, but everything just seems off, it doesn't seem pleasing to the eye. I dunno, I just love all of your paintovers, and want to get your point of view on it, maybe it will help push me in the right direction once I start drawing me in there.
Oh and I've gotten alot of comments on the lighting being off, so let's just say I'm not SET on having that background, if you feel it should be completely different, do what you wil

[Stahlberg]

It's ok, right now (including yours) I have 8 waiting.

.

[yueyume]

Wow, thank you so much! Compared to your paintover my lighting looks so bland. :D The clouds look more pleasing to the eye now too.

Thanks again!

And by the way, I really like ewkn's painting and what you did to it too. The fire looks awesome. :p

[ewkn]

thank you stahlberg! very nice

[Gabe]

Here's another character that could use a critique.

I'm not happy with how the skin turned out.




Here is the full size version.

http://home.comcast.net/~gabe687/Jin.jpg


800 pixel wide one is in the thumb nail below.

[escapizm]

wow, its seems like steven's got quite the waiting list. unfortunately im in need of some proper critiqueing pronto, so if anyone's willing to help out please go here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=399888
and tear it to shreds if you have to! thanks guys!

[Stahlberg]

Here are three more entries. First this one: as you see not a big difference, didn't think there was that much I could improve there

http://www.androidblues.com/POP159.gif


Then pic #160, the two fighting robots:

http://www.androidblues.com/POP160.gif


And last the rat warrior - again no major changes, just small tweaks

http://www.androidblues.com/POP161.gif


Grugi, I'm sorry but your image is very difficult for me to paint over. It would just be some minor things like blurring the eyebrows more toward the center, maybe retouch the hair... but that's not very helpful, because hair is damn hard to do in 3d as I well know, and I'm sure you can see for yourself that the hair is a little stylized right now. :) I think her basic facial shape looks very good. I couldn't improve on that. Perhaps some more work on the hair, and skin textures..?

.

[whiterat]

THANK YOU. ...!!:buttrock::buttrock:

Small tweaks but a Great outcome. I can see now were are my flaws and I can correct them.

Thank you again!!

[Stahlberg]

Another image - I tried to relax her pose, make the mushroom more comfortable, and remove the strong contrasts for a more 'fantasy' look. Outlines aren't necessarily wrong, it's just these were quite thick and 100% black, I thought it would look more fitting without them.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP162.gif


edit:
One more:

http://www.androidblues.com/POP164.gif


.

[umbrellasky]

Hi Stahlberg, this is a piece that I created quite a while ago. I've been trying to improve the colours but nothing I do seems to work. I think her skin tones look a little grey.

I'd be truly grateful if you could see anyway of improving this piece, just to finish it off.

Thanks for your time.

Oh and the girl is supposed to be Snow White :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v700/enialadam/snowwhiteGFX.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Another one . . . . . . . . .

http://www.androidblues.com/POP165.gif


.

[Stahlberg]

And number 166
. . . . . . .

http://www.androidblues.com/POP166.gif

[aldog]

WHOA.
That's such an incredible difference
thank you so much
I keep looking at your changes and than it switches back to mine and i'm like...awwwww=/

THANKS alot!
=)

[flutear]

thank u very much ^^ the unicorn looks greatly better :D :D :D

[arisuonpaa]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg. I recently finished this image, but it left me wondering did I learn anything new doing this. This is better than any of my previous work, but I'm hoping to learn more if I get comments from a master like yourself :).
I already know that the girl's right hand (from the girl's point of view) is too small compared to the left one. I also received comments that there's something wrong with the nose. I just cannot figure out what it is.
The intention with this image was to achieve a feel of cold autumn morning.
A larger version can be found in my portfolio.

-Ari

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/155073/155073_1158171550_submedium.jpg

[primativ]

I enjoyed the last paintover you created for me. What would make this image look more professional?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b22/primativ/dragonavatar4.jpg

[Runecaster]

Heyas Mr. Stahlberg, I am back... though I do lurk here very very often :D

I am having trouble with this image in the lighting department -- you can probably tell that I used photoreferences for the pose of the girl and the mushroom itself -- to me, I can 'see' the flash... I tried to hide this as much as I could but something is just NOT working for me.. so I just slapped it together and can't work on it anymore. I would love to know what you could do to it, or what your eyes can see that I cannot in regards to lighting and color. It's so hard to learn about lighting and color on your own!! :)

Thanks in advance :)

http://www.aequinox.com/paintings/mushroom_fairy.jpg

[MrJames]

Hi Steven,

This is a character that I have started to sculpt in Mudbox. I have hit a brick wall with it as far as detailing goes, I'm also not sure if the nose fits in as much as I like. The aim was to make a creature that also shows signs of intelligence, not just a standard scary monster... I really want to push it as far as I can but I'm not sure where to take it from here. If you have any suggestions on who to make it more unique/interesting I would love to hear...

This is a sreengrab so the lighting isn't what I intend to have in the final model and I'll leave that until I'm finished with the model. What I am looking to get out of this model is a head sculpt for my portfolio.

Thanks! :wise:

http://www.3d-tvu.co.uk/Attachments/wip03_418.png

[jmBoekestein]

Thanks a lot Mr. Stahlberg!! Glad you could find the time to do a paintover. I think I understand it, most eyeopening was the tight horizon line suddenly giving it a more readable feel of depth, that and the reflection of metal and water. Alrighty I'll continue the experimentations :D.

[TheSeer]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg! I'm new to the forum, but I think you are doing a wonderful work here! I am working on a woman face with Zbrush. The thing is, I've lost the road with respect to the general form of the face. It is not detailed; that can be done after, but I was wondering if you could help me with suggestions for the general aspect of the face.
Thank you very much!

[Wexter]

im not Stahlberg , but please be pacient and wait until he responses all the threads---thanks for understanding...wex

[collings]

hi Steven,

I'm doing a new character for my demoreel, and i have some probleme about the lighting part. I'd like something more intense, more dramatic but i can't find something interesting. Could you help me on this?

here is the pic ( Based on a design by Miles Teves)
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9341/trarchwip53hq7.jpg


Thanks a lot for your help, it's very kind of you to help people like you do.

[Stahlberg]

Three new ones.
As you can see, for the last one I used part of a stock photo for the background, and photoreference for the rest. I find this indispensable to get the proper mood and light

http://www.androidblues.com/POP167.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP168.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP169.gif


.

[apts]

Hey Mr. Stahlberg I've been doing this picture for about a while now and I can't really seem to get the woman to fit into the picture properly and her pose just looks odd now i would really appreciate some help with this to help me see what someone with talent like yours would do with this picture. Also thanks for starting this thread its incredibly helpful seeing what your doing witht these pictures.

http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dragon2pu3.jpg

[apts]

sorry posted same thing twice

[umbrellasky]

Oooo lala thank you so much Stahlberg!! That's such a difference. The changes you made will definitely help when I decide to go back and improve this piece!

:thumbsup:

[MrJames]

Wow, you really brought that last one to life! :thumbsup:

[Gabe]

Very nice!


Let's see the things I can spot:


1 = Use lighter tones for muscle divisions to make the masses look smoother but still detailed.

2 = Give the image a little extra style / attitude with body language = the tilt of the head makes him look more intense.

3 = Go more wild with cloth, use reference. I have trouble drawing folds in cloth unless I'm looking at reference.

4 = For the floor shadow, make the spot closest to the body darker and fade with distance.

5 = Make large shadow masses on the body more obvious = large chunks of shadow with a pretty hard edge.



Good stuff,

Thanks again Steven :thumbsup:

Much appreciated!

[Stahlberg]

1 = Use lighter tones for muscle divisions to make the masses look smoother but still detailed.
Yes, I agree

2 = Give the image a little extra style / attitude with body language = the tilt of the head makes him look more intense.
I didn't change his pose, except slightly changing the outline of his pants, and moving his head. The head, I may not have totally succeeded, I was trying to visualize the spine and neck, these 2 must be connected and flow together, I think the head should be a bit higher still.

3 = Go more wild with cloth, use reference. I have trouble drawing folds in cloth unless I'm looking at reference.
Yes, I used reference myself. :) Easy to find, just Google "martial art", I think on the second page there was a guy in a similar pose in white pants, facing the opposite way and with the opposite lighting, but still better than nothing.

4 = For the floor shadow, make the spot closest to the body darker and fade with distance.
Yes, that's right

5 = Make large shadow masses on the body more obvious = large chunks of shadow with a pretty hard edge.
Yes, I let the shadow on the ground guide me as to what kind of lighting you were going for. Since it's edge was sharp, the arm shadow needed to be sharp too.

[Stahlberg]

Two more images.
The second one, again I'm relying heavily on photo reference, which imo is the only way to go with subject matter like this, no matter the level of the artist. There's no reason not to, as it's so easy - it only took me about two minutes to Google, choose and copy a toadstool image into PS.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP170.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP171.gif


.

[Runecaster]

Well I do like your mushroom better for the mood - that's for sure!!!

But I did use and replicate a photo reference for the one I already painted LOL


http://www.aequinox.com/images/Mushroom2.jpg



What I was really wanting to see was how you would handle/change the lighting -- and it improved the mood dramatically! Thank you so much =D

[Stahlberg]

Aha, sorry for assuming you didn't use reference. :)
I noticed now that you actually mentioned in your first post that you used reference, sorry for forgetting.
Very few people do I think, so I preach about using it every chance I get.

two more pops:
This first one, I just checked and noticed that I was supposed to NOT make him look like your standard scary monster... :) well then ignore the lowering of the brow and bringing forward of the jaw.
But narrowing the distance between nose and upper lip, and making the ears smaller, strangely do seem to tend to make a character look more intelligent, so keep those changes. The lower lip being very large and sharply defined can be seen as a feminine trait by some, so I'm not sure if you want to keep that. As for the detailing, what you can always do is wrinkles, I tried to show a few to point you in the right direction.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP172.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP173.gif

[MrJames]

Wow thanks! Really appreciate your time and help on this! :thumbsup: I'm going to get to work tommorrow on some of the ideas you have thrown up and hopefully PM you the finished piece some time... Thanks again, your a star! :)

James

[TheSeer]

Thank you very much Steven! That will really help. ^^
I really appreciate your kind attitude of helping!
See ya.

[Marc10edora]

Hi Steven,
I was wondering if you could help me out on this painting I was working on this week. It is my first attempt at digital painting in photoshop and I would apprecciate any advice you could give me. I was having trouble with the color pallete and with the colors being too saturated. I painted the whole thing in black and white first and added layers of color over it. Also I was having trouble keeping this character from looking like a guy. If you can offer any suggestions to how I can make her look more female that would be cool too. Thanks, this thread is awesome.

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/207245/207245_1160344793_submedium.jpg

<img src="http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/207245/207245_1160344793_submedium.jpg">

[Stahlberg]

The three latest images:
The first one, I didn't really have a lot to comment on, so I just fiddled some with minor details, and the pose. :)

http://www.androidblues.com/POP174.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP175.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP176.gif

[Marc10edora]

Wow,
You helped me see that my highlights were all over the place. I like what you've done with it. Especially the face and softer tones. It makes her look more female now. Thanks.

[collings]

thanks a lot Stahlberg, you can see the new update in my thread in the wip section. here is the link if you are interested in :)

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3922129#post3922129 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3922129#post3922129)

[Stahlberg]

collings, good progress! I love the hairy shoulders! :D
Just one thing, I think the S-shape in the club and the way it lies against the ground makes it look like it's soft and floppy... I think you should either make it straighter, or bend the other way, or make the bend more 'sharp' if you know what I mean.

[collings]

yeah i know what you mean, i didn't realize that relation with the ground, you're right about the soft and floppy look. Some other guys told me the same thing. I'll fix that for sure. Thanks.

[Autarkis]

Hey Steven:

first of all, I have to say that everything that you're giving back to the community is amazing! I thank you for that!
I would love for you to take a look at this, and let me know if there's any glaring proportion issues that are popping out at you. The head feels a little too big, and I've tried making it smaller in different ways, and it always kept looking worse. I also feel that my lower arms are looking quite.. weird, not too sure what's going on there.

http://phantomflow.com/models/wires_help1.jpg

Thanks for everything if you do give me a few tips.

[Stahlberg]

Yes, you're right, the head is about 10% too big, and the arms are too short - on most people the distance between fingertips (when arms are stretched out like this) equals that of their height, pretty much to the centimeter. I also think his jaw may be a little too massive, but that may be more a matter of taste.
Topology seems slightly un-even, sparse in one direction in some areas, the center of the chest could use another vertical edgeloop, and the thighs could use a couple more horisontal edgeloops... more like the biceps and deltoids, which seem more evenly divided.
Apart from these issues, the model seems quite well done, so I don't know if it would help much if I painted over it? :)

.

[Maidith]

Hi Steven!
I enjoyed watching the overpaints, comparing original and overpainted pictures. Thanks for this great thread :D
Here I have a new painting, called "Venus Verticordia", where the anatomy bothers me. I think it's mainly the shoulder/neck/arm area, but I'm not sure how.
Link: http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/database/art/view.pl?id=101556 (nudity)

[Cral]

*edit* removed the picture because I will try to make some changes by myself :)

[Gord-MacDonald]

Awesome thread! Browsing the changes is a great educational experience.


Gord

[apts]

Hey thanks so much, this is a huge help, I didn't realise how awkward that pose actually was and everything else is a huge improvement I shall get to work fixing my picture.

[JakobWelner]

Wow. This thread just keeps on going and going :)

I have this image which I "finished" about 2 years ago but i still think of it as my greatest piece yet - and the one I have spend the most time on.
Anyways, I thought I could post it here to see how to maybe take it one step further, as I find it very hard to point my finger at what exactly can be improved - if I were to edit it a bit one day.

It is a selfportrait, though I DO have ears in the real world :D
Some parts are based on actual paintovers of photos and others are made from scratch with a mirror.

http://www.jakob.welner.dk/temp/selfPortrait.jpg

[primativ]

Thanks for the help with my dragon. Your colors really unified the piece and the anatomy corrections were great.Great stuff!!

[Gelvin]

I have no idea on how to continue with this
, but i think i need to work with the contrast and make
the colors stand out a bit more...

I wanted to avoid drawing her hands thats why she stand in
such a weird pose...

on a sidenote; your work is amazing, and you really bring magic
to the drawings in this thread.

http://web.telia.com/~u48109612/lady_cgtalk.jpg

[KORG]

Hey Stahlberg, 'hope i'm not too late. I'm just getting started in cg (and in general art). I couldn't figure out what to add and what to do with this picture. I wanted to see what a Pro would do to "pretty it up"

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/92/spacewd9.jpg
I'm not really sure what to add. That's not neccessarily earth in the bg and you are on some different planet. What would you do?

Thanks :)

[Antsidious]

This thread is GREAT! This is the 2nd digital illustration that I've ever done. It is a picture of my God son Seth at 6 months old. Yes his head is that big for now :-). I am using Photoshop CS2 and an Intuos 3 with the original pen nib that came with it. Right now I'm stuck on how to get the texture on his clothing. His outfit is made out of velvet. Also I was wondering how the illustration looks so far and if there is any advantage to using a different pen nib than the one that came with it the intuos? Thanks in advance!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/lankiet/Seth_8.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Here are four more.
This one, I thought the light was a bit indistinct so I made it more clear. I could perhaps have put it from the right, as you had it already on the face, but I just liked it better from this side on the body.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP177.gif

I tried to give this guy more character, but even so I pulled back on the nose a bit, since I thought it was a bit too extreme and risked looking silly :)
http://www.androidblues.com/POP178.gif

This one, wasn't sure what to do so I just did some minor tweaks.
http://www.androidblues.com/POP179.gif

Mostly anatomy and pose tweaks on this one. (Pardon the emphasized nipples, that was accidentally left over from some initial smudging I did, not meant to be any kind of statement from me) :)
http://www.androidblues.com/POP180.gif

[Stahlberg]

KORG I'm not sure what to do with your image, since it's stylized, relatively simple, and hard to see what is actually the subject matter. I'm guessing it's a planet, probably Earth, seen from space, right? But it could also be something quite different. Maybe if you describe it some, explain what you're going for, and let me know if you want me to take it in a more realistic direction, then I could give it a whirl. :)

.

[Gelvin]

Thanks Stahlberg, i can see now what i need
to keep working on: more natural pose etc...
Iam not sure about the nipples thou :D

Thanks

[TobyArt]

Fantastic Thread, what you do for everyone is amazing!
This was a daily sketch, I'd like to make it a little more dynamic. I'm going to spend more time on lighting and such, I'd love to finish it, just curious if you have any recs before I begin.
http://www.tobyart.com/dsg/madhat2.jpg

[danielh68]

This is such a mesmerizing thread, it's like watching a magic show for the first time. Great contributions...jaw-dropping paint-overs. :)

[KORG]

Stahlberg, I don't want it to be earth. You are on another planet (different universe) and the planet in the distance wasn't supposed to be the subject. I just didn't know what to do in the foreground. I want the picture to look more un-earthy, like it's in a universe very far away. I do want something in the foreground but I have NO clue what to put... That's why I came here :thumbsup:. I want a 'dreamy' look with nice atmosphere. I can't seem to pull it off though!



Thanks

[Stahlberg]

want something in the foreground but I have NO clue what to put... That's why I came here
I see... well I can certainly tweak the background, but as for the foreground, I don't know... this thread is more for problems like: "this coffee cup doesn't look like a coffee cup", or "this hand doesn't look in perspective", or "this light isn't what I was going for"... what to paint as your main subject is very difficult for me to tell you. I could invent something like a giant mushroom, a lasercannon, a unicorn or a butterfly or ten thousand other items, but the odds are stacked that you wouldn't like it, for the simple reason that it wasn't your idea. :)
I'll do the background, give you some time to think about what should be the main subject here.

[Marc-OlivierBouchard]

Very good comments overall.

Here's what's probably my first dabble at concept art.
He is a policitician from the 50's.

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1647/dick09rgbsmallcq5.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dick09rgbsmallcq5.jpg)

Thank you

[KORG]

Stahlberg!! You are a genious! I really liked the idea of putting a mushroom in the scene but as always, I tried it and it just didn't look right :shrug: Perhaps you could give it a shot??

[SylvanMist]

Hi, first just want to thank you for this service you're offering..it's excellent and I love to see the improvements made! Really a learning experience.

Here's my piece that I'm not sure what else to do with. Not sure if the perspective is ok and the lighting/composition. I would appreciate any help you can give me and an honest critique. I'm trying to learn illustration.



A little background on what this illustration is about:
It's from the Death Gate Cycle novels by Margret Weis & Tracy Hickman. The character is Hugh the Hand, and he is on the world of Arianus. Arianus has little water supply on the main islands of habitation(it RARELY ever rains), and it is a world of "air". The land masses are giant floating islands in the sky made out of Coralite, a porous rocky material. There are some crystaline trees that grow there however.
The character is a low poly 3d model -I'm hoping I will be able to integrate him in the image succesfully(so this illustration is also an experiment with that).

this is my WIP thread: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=417961

[Stahlberg]

Three more images

This one, I was asked to make the sweater look like velvet. Not really very successful, but that's sort of the direction I think...
http://www.androidblues.com/POP181.gif

This one is hard, due to the stylization, I tried to adjust it as little as possible while still trying to be helpful
http://www.androidblues.com/POP182.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP183.gif


Okay, I'll see what I can do about the mushroom a bit later... :)

.

[TobyArt]

Stahlberg - Thanks a ton for the paintover, I'll be sure and post it back up when I'm finished
Love the top arm, so much more fluid.

Thanks again

[Antsidious]

Thanks Stahlberg! I like how you made it look soft. I was completely lost before. I also like how you added more flesh tones to his face makeing him look more lively. What program do you use?

[KORG]

wow stahlburg! that's insane!- really nicely done! Can you give me some tips on how you acheived that look? That is exactly what I was going for.


:applause:

[KORG]

Heh....Just messing around with some ideas
http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3619/spacekz2.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Cool! :D

Antsidious, I use Photoshop.

KORG, first I selected the planet, then I scribbled with a 1-pixel brush, and stamped a few times with a textured brush. Then I used the Add Noise filter very subtly, also the Sharpen filter, then back to the 1-pixel brush... I may have overdone the texturing a bit, but the thing is when it comes to huge views like an entire planet, you really can't get enough detail (has to be low-key though, not high-contrast). Then I did something similar with the ground, but not as much; some horisontal strokes with brushes of different width.

[digital-bobert]

what an awesome thread Steven! You're very kind for doing this

[Stahlberg]

Thanks Bobby - an honor to have you visiting! :)

.

[KORG]

KORG, first I selected the planet, then I scribbled with a 1-pixel brush, and stamped a few times with a textured brush. Then I used the Add Noise filter very subtly, also the Sharpen filter, then back to the 1-pixel brush... I may have overdone the texturing a bit, but the thing is when it comes to huge views like an entire planet, you really can't get enough detail (has to be low-key though, not high-contrast). Then I did something similar with the ground, but not as much; some horisontal strokes with brushes of different width.

Cool thanks, i'll give it a shot :thumbsup:

[Stahlberg]

With planets, you can also pick any highly textured area from a photo, then in Photoshop use Filter > Distort > Polar Coordinates to bulge it like a sphere. Or a layered combination of that, together with some other method of texturing.

[MrBrick]

Hello Mr.Stahlberg!

I've been following this thread since it started soaking in your rays of insperation.

Im wondering what you would paint over in this scene here. I feel it needs some work composition wise.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v111/faceface/Texturin2.jpg

[Maidith]

Thank you, Steven. This is so amazing! I was pondering over the anatomy for a long time, not getting what was wrong, and now it suddenly looks so simple. :D I also like how you did the light. And thanks for keeping the "classical" look that I was going for.

[mlru]

Hello Steven!
Following this thread from the begining, and I have to say it's most entertaining and instructive! One should think, looking at all this paintovers and learning from them should solve any problem, but sadly I have to admit, I got stuck recently anyhow :(. So I wonder, if you can help me out?

About the image: She's a warrior travelling a hostile land and she managed to take the high priestress as a hostile. Although one night her camp is surrounded by the foes and now they are approaching. But she's confident and ready for the fight...

About the problems: As usual for me, it's the lighting. I imagine the light coming from torches of the - invisible - foes who are located behind the camera. And maybe a touch of moonlight, too. The other point is the background. I've no idea how to fill it. Woods, mountains, that all doesn't seem 'fantasy' enough, if you know what I mean.... There has to be something with an alien or even bizzare look.

Being just a hobbyist, it would be great to get an artists point of view!

[Stahlberg]

mlru I really dig those characters. The main thing I'd work on is lighting, as you yourself said you're not happy with it yet. But it's a relatively easy fix, as opposed to working on anatomy and faces. If you only remember a few simple rules with light. (Either that, or go outside at night and take some reference snapshots with some orangey light placed in about the right place)

Basically it's a lack of shadow. You have the lighted parts, and then the slightly less lighted parts, but in real life at night you'd get like 90% black with some dots of light. We don't have to go that far in fantasy images, it might make the image boring, but I think there should be large chunks of black or nearblack in there. Especially in the background, and near their feet.
Also, very little actual local color. You may have heard the expression "At night all cats are grey", that refers to the effect that in low light our eyes can't distinguish color. So you'd have the orange tones of the torches, and the bluish tones of the moonlight, and that should basically be it. Also, take care to make the moonlight come from a different direction than the torches, or they'll mix and no one will be able to tell one from the other. In this case, having the moon shining from behind them should be perfect.
I'll paint on this in a little while, to show better what I mean.

.

[mlru]

Thanks for the hints, Steven.
I think, I get an idea what you mean: A highlighting of the figures in a way of Rembrants Night Watch - sort of. Seems I have to work with lots of small lights instead of a few global spots :(
I know, the colors are a bit too bright for a night scene, I planned to drop down the saturation in post work.
I'm really courious what you'll come up with. 8)

(Sorry, no idea how that blue :-( slipped into the title....)

[RalphDamiani]

Hello again. I'm not entirely sure I'm allowed to submit a piece again, but feel free to ignore this post or place me behind other artists whose works haven't been reviewed yet. :)

I worked on this for several weeks and it ended up looking alot different from what I had imagined in first place. While there are certain aspects I liked, others such as the general anatomy and lighting make the image rather dull in my opinion. There's no dramatic lighting as I envisioned and I couldn't quite figure what to do with it. Also there are anatomy problems I can't get fixed (such as the head position of the black wizard).

What I would I like to see is: How to improve the poses so they look more dynamic and add drama to the conflict. How to improve the lighting and pallette so the painting looks more vibrant and the environment more attractive.

Thanks in advance, Mr. Stahlberg.

http://xs208.xs.to/xs208/06425/tohef_small.jpg

[DrIvErD]

hello
http://img318.imageshack.us/img318/7905/meandmyfathercopypj2.jpg
hello steven this is my paint i think its empty :sad: and thanks for this wonderful thread

[Stahlberg]

DrIvErD, please let me know more about what you're going for with this picture, so I can better advise you. Is it a symbolic image, something like friendship or love? Is it 2 specific people, and you want them to be recognizable? Do you want more realism? If so, please send me the photo you used as reference.

.

[Stahlberg]

Here are four more images.
This first one, I wasn't sure what this person looks like so I can't advice on his face very much.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP184.gif


.



http://www.androidblues.com/POP185.gif


.


http://www.androidblues.com/POP186.gif


.


http://www.androidblues.com/POP187.gif


.

[Marc-OlivierBouchard]

Thank you, its appreciated. It helps.

Lee Van Cleef was the kind of face I was going for.

[PhurieDae]

Hi, Steven. I was wondering if you could help me out with the lighting on this piece, especially on Hellboy's face. It's difficult for me to reconcile the blue light with the red skin. The flame is just roughly sketched in, I know, but the final colour and intensity will remain the same.

The crates they are sitting on and the ledge in front are intentionally rough - I wanted to get the lighting and poses down pat before working any further, so you don't have to touch those much if you don't want to.

Thank you for this thread!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/phurie/HB.jpg

[AugieBenDoggie]

Steven, would it be possible for you to put some before and after text applied somewhere on the Gif's? Some of the paintovers are kind of difficult to tell apart.

[MrBrick]

Wow!

Thanks for your insight. It has deffinatly inspired me to tie up all the ends in this scene.

[Coreyhkh]

Hello Iam am working on this piece for a school project and would appreciate any Insight you may have thanks.

the part of the bridge that is falling apart is being shot by the ship.


http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6347/testzr0.jpg

[Stahlberg]

AugieBenDoggie, if you really can't tell the difference between before and after I'm not doing it right. maybe if you told me which ones, I can explain in more detail?

.

[RalphDamiani]

Maybe the gifs are not loading properly for him? When the differences are small corrections and too subtle they usually come with a note.

[SylvanMist]

Thank you so much Steven! That really helped! I'm working on finishing the image now and will post it when i'm done. :)

[AugieBenDoggie]

AugieBenDoggie, if you really can't tell the difference between before and after I'm not doing it right. maybe if you told me which ones, I can explain in more detail?

Errrr, I did not say I could NOT tell the difference between them. I said some of the paintovers are kind of difficult to tell apart. Anyway, it was merely a suggestion. I am allready fighting a lost cause with it.

]Maybe the gifs are not loading properly for him? When the differences are small corrections and too subtle they usually come with a note.

The gif's load properly, and the notes do help out. My appologies if I have offended.

[Stahlberg]

My appologies if I have offended.
No apologies, no offence. Just let me know if there's an overpaint you'd like explained.
I tend to spend too much time painting, and too little time writing about it.

[mlru]

Hi Steven,
thanks for your effort! I really like that idea of a full or partial hidden moon in the back. And obvious it's often a nice idea to have some sharp lit edges, especially in darker environments.
The twist of the sword and the sharper light of the blade is great, too. Althought I think under this lighting conditions the blade would be covered by shadows - but we always can cheat if it looks good, right?
Not convinced about the changed pose, though. Even if caught in the middle of an up-pulling movement, I'm not sure if such a position is possible... Giving it a second thought, my pose might look a little clumsy or stiff, maybe that's why you changed it. As you always say: I have to find me some references ;-)

Gave it a first try last night, and if you or anybody else is interested, that's what I came out with. I think, it looks pretty well and with some more hours of fine tuning it might become a quite nice picture. Sometimes you just need a little push in the right direction... Thanks, again.

[Stahlberg]

Not convinced about the changed pose, though
Yes, it was just a quick suggestion - basically why I did it is, I feel the younger more feminine woman should be keeping her knees together. :) It's a subconscious thing with girls, I've noticed. And with men, the opposite. Most men will never keep his knees together if he can help it, it's just one of those subconscious macho things I guess, like not keeping the elbows close to the torso etc. :)

Also note that the younger girls waist should probably not be convex on our left (her right), but concave

Your new render looks nice and improved, I'd like to keep the sky with a slight tint of blue though. I'm also not sure about the sharp shadows from the warm front-light, if there are several torches facing her it might be a blurry shadow instead right?

.

[mlru]

Interesting thought. I focussed more on a balanced pose and didn't pay attention to my male subconsciuos :) I'll try to give her pose a more feminine touch.

I wasn't quite sure about the strong blue in your paintover - I considered moonlight more to be in a silvery tone, so I added only a slight light blue in the light color. You're right about the sharp shadows of course - I just skipped the blurring to get a quicker render result.

[Stahlberg]

Two more - the first one seems to have a slightly distorted perspective, and I'm not happy with my own version of it either, as I usually try to stick as close as possible to the original. But I think in this case, a slightly bigger change is in order - perhaps lower the angle a bit, so Voldemort ends up a bit higher.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP188.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP189.gif


.

[RalphDamiani]

Thanks for the paintover. I see your points. I used a 3d max model for the perspective reference, but apparently I it was an oversight not to correct the camera distortion.
Perspective is one of those aspects that is so difficult to change afterwards, since I'll probably have to rework the entire image to some degree, so I might just move on to the next.

On a side note I love what you did to the floor, I will have to go back and fix it later. Thanks again.

[DrIvErD]

thanks steve for this wonderful pic you done and it give me the energy to reach this level of painting :) thanks again steve you are the best :thumbsup:

[Gabe]

I'm pretty happy with how this came out, but I would like to see any ideas or critique you might have.

Here is the full size version
http://home.comcast.net/~gabe687/demon.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~gabe687/demon.jpg)


Small version is below


Thanks :)


Edit:

Looking at it again, I realized that the forehead wrinkles shouldn't be there, because he is moving his eye brows down not up.

Woops...

[SylvanMist]

Ok I finished my image and put it in my gallery here if you want to see it:
http://roja.cgsociety.org/gallery/

Your paintover really helped me to see how to do the rocks and atmospheric haze better. I didnt' have those colors quite right and the contrast was too high. Thanks again!

[Hobbock]

Hi, I'm kinda new to CG, and painting in general, and I'm having big problems with getting perspectives right.
I've been following this thread and it has helped me a lot in understanding lighting, although I'm far from getting it right. ;)


I recently tried drawing a whole scene and I just can't get the perspective right some help would be very appreciated.
Don't know if it's good enough to get a paintover but here it is:

http://adkur001.thg.se/moonlitghost.jpg

It's supposed to be a ghost/spirit/ethereal-being sitting on a stone out on the water in the moonlight (yes I'm aware moonlight isn't greenish ;) ). The stuff in the background is a forest and a shore.
The blob-like thing to the left is supposed to be the ground that's a bit above water level. I've repainted it a lot of times and it ended up very strangely. :(

[Stahlberg]

Three more images...

http://www.androidblues.com/POP190.gif


.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP191.gif


.
http://www.androidblues.com/POP192.gif


.

[Skjoldbroder]

Hey Steven - I was hoping you'd give me some input on this head. I think I'm a little stuck regarding her skin and lips .. well, and other stuff too. Looking forward to seeing what you make of it :)

http://www.skjoldbroder.dk/mona.jpg

all the best
/Mogens

[Stahlberg]

kamranstel, that looks like you scanned it from a book. Why are you posting it here? Even if it was yours, you certainly don't need any help with it - there's nothing I could do to 'improve' it and you know it. Are you joking, trying to trick me?

.

[kamranstel]

ofcorse I'm not joking.me and one of my Friend were working on it.and i cant make a copy of that on his PC and then i had to take a picture of it with a camera.but i think its too dark.could you help me with that?(because i couldn't understand that).
((don't be mad at me I'm not trying to trick you ;). :banghead: and i didn't scan that from a book:sad: ))

[Rebeccak]

kamranstel,

Neither Steven nor I are idiots, and that image is quite clearly scanned from a book. Please do not attempt to pass off others' work as your own.

I also find it interesting that you're in Greece, not Iran. :rolleyes:

-Rebeccak

[Gabe]

Thank you Steven, I'm learning so much from these.

I can see how the eyes become much more the center of focus.

That strong shadow makes a big difference in making the image pop.

Is there a special reason for you painting the large areas with one color, instead of using an overlay or soft light layer setting, to keep the details below?

I see you do this a lot...

Did you have any other thoughts when working on this one?



Here is another I would like a critique on.

Large version = http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42143827/ (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/42143827/)

small version is below


Thanks again :thumbsup:

[kamranstel]

thanks for your help.and this is an Incomplete picture of my work.and thanks again.
(if you check it now I'm from France.its because of my ISP.)
http://kamranstel2.persiangig.com/kamran/angels-10.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Is there a special reason for you painting the large areas with one color, instead of using an overlay or soft light layer setting, to keep the details below?
Oh, it's just quicker for me that way, that's all. :) These paintovers I do are only meant as rough indications after all, I only spend about 15 - 30 minutes on each on... I'd like to spend more but there's no time. :)
Layers with overlays etc don't work as well because what I wanted to do here was flatten the range of tones. Please feel free to add any texture you like back in again (taking care not to add too much range in tones as you do so, not too light and not too dark).

You also need not keep the shadows so sharp if you don't want to, I just think in cases such as this sharp-edged shadows look kind of cooler. :)

.

[Rebeccak]

thanks for your help.and this is an Incomplete picture of my work.and thanks again.
http://kamranstel2.persiangig.com/kamran/angels-10.jpg


Wow...That's quite a feat...making a digital artwork into a traditional artwork...what medium were you using, did you say? ;)

[embryotic]

Amazing thread Mr Stahlberg - once more into fray?

http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5848/jellyshipsmljpgth6.jpg

how could you treat colours to show a 'fantastic' element - and please anything else that you feel could add to this - thank you so much

[Stahlberg]

Well, kamranstel, as I mentioned before, even if you really did create that, there's nothing I can add to it, nothing I can improve on, sorry.
Except the image is a bit too dark, and has a brown tone to it, but I'm sure this was not there in the original. You can fix this very easily by applying Auto Levels in Photoshop next time you scan something. I did it here, just to demonstrate.

http://www.androidblues.com/2Kamran-angels.jpg



.

[Kazkas]

Hi Stahlberg,I would be grateful if you could show how to improve this one a little bit, it somehow doesnt look like i want to open it when it's in thumbnail, so i guess there might be light contrast problems or smt like that that it doesnt give people thought of opening and seeing whats inside.
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6959/cureflyct7.jpg

[Haszdeus]

Great thanks to you S. Stahlberg. I have almost watched all of your corrections and it's so much help. I will sedn my illustration once the line dies down again.
Thanks.








Ignore this question if it doesn't belong in this thread
(I also read and saw some of you suddivision modelings, and I was wondering if you are planning on creating some more tutorials on your site?)

[Stahlberg]

wondering if you are planning on creating some more tutorials on your site?
Not right now, sorry. Maybe some day. :)

.

[TheSeer]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg! It's me again hehe.. I was wondering if you could please help a friend of mine to improve this anime character.
Thanks.

[mirre]

HI mr Stahlberg

I was wondering if you might help me improve this image please. I am having quit some problems with the lightning and the wateryfeeling in this picture.

I have tried painting in light and changing the layerlevels but it all comes to the same result a kind of flat lifeless plastik fantastik not the kind of deep watery feeling as if you are looking in the water at a most unfortunate mermaid. I am stuck.
Best regards
Mirre


http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/250804/250804_1162484554_medium.jpg

[Erikoinen]

Hi, Stahlberg. If you're still doing these overpaints, I'd really like to see how would you improve this one sketch of mine. Thanks!

http://www.erikoinen.com/2d/sketches/24.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Three new images...


http://www.androidblues.com/POP194.gif

Not much I could think of to improve for this guy, except fiddle with the lighting a bit...
http://www.androidblues.com/POP195.gif


http://www.androidblues.com/POP196.gif


.

[SulaMoon]

Pure inspiration =)

[embryotic]

Thank you very much mr Stahlberg - I can see a lot to concentrate on from that.

Any comments on how you took away contrasts in clouds but added warmth of tones - it is very interesting to me.

I need to concentrate on details and colour values/tones

Masterful views Steven - Thanks again! :thumbsup:

[Pore]

Good day Mr. Stahlberg. I painted the face on this orc quite some time ago and cannot seem to find a matching green color-scheme for his body (That, and I cannot find a good lighting source or general color theme to the peice overall)
I'm New to coloring. ;D

-Thanks a bunch

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/195889/195889_1162585587_submedium.jpg

[embryotic]

Hi Pore

not sure if im the one that should point out the rules of this thread - but:


1. Only one per session
2. Explain what you're trying to communicate with it (important, in case it's not obvious)
3. Originals should be relatively 'finished' looking - no sketches or big empty areas. This thread is meant to assist with a piece you've worked a lot on, but gotten stuck with.
4. Size - roughly 800x600 or viceversa, maximum
5. Only submit until there are 4 'untreated' images in a row


you've got some kickass line work there - looks awesome!

have a look at these links:

Steel Dolphin Colour Scheme Tool (http://www.steeldolphin.com/color_scheme.html) (I use this while learning colour)

WIP/Critique: 2D, Illustrations and Concept Art (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=31)

Art Techniques and Theories Forum (http://forums.cgsociety.org/forumdisplay.php?f=166)

Good luck man :thumbsup:

[Stahlberg]

Any comments on how you took away contrasts in clouds but added warmth of tones
Anytime I see clouds that are nearly white and nearly black in the same image, I adjust it for less contrast, because imo clouds are very translucent.
Within the severly restricted range of shades available in paintings, in a daytime setting, you have to reserve the really dark tones to objects that are really solid and/or dark in color, and not affected by distance from the viewer (atmosphere, fog-effects, mist etc, which always start getting rid of the darkest tones first, as it moves further and further away, until finally - just before it disappears completely - the object has the same color range as a cloud).
The warm tone, I found that in your original, and I thought you were going for a sunset or sunrise feeling, so I tried to keep it, and intensified it a little.


Pore: very nice drawings there! As for the color, can't you just colorpick an intermediate green from the face, block that in, then colorpick for the highlights and shadows as well? That should match fairly well I think...
.

[Pore]

Pore: very nice drawings there! As for the color, can't you just colorpick an intermediate green from the face, block that in, then colorpick for the highlights and shadows as well? That should match fairly well I think...
.

That was my idea. I colorpicked the highlight from the forehead, then my idea was to just add different warm and cool greens, like i did on the face, till it looks right, only thing Is, I don't have ANY comprehension of lighting and color rules, since im 17 years old and self-taught (So-far ;D) so I kind of got something close, only it looks horrible...I wish I saved it so you could see

So i was wondering if you could block in or just like throw some colors/highlights/shadows in the general areas, *I should be able to continue from there.

-Thank you very much, Nick

[Gabe]

couldn't find much to fix?

Well that's a good thing, I guess the paint overs are working.



Thanks again Steven. :)

[Stahlberg]

Two more images

http://www.androidblues.com/POP197.gif


.


http://www.androidblues.com/POP198.gif


.

[Stahlberg]

Mirre,
that under-water image you made, what is actually going on there? :) Sorry, I guess I'm just a little confused. Is that a one-eyed mermaid in the middle, with two bloodsucking red-haired mermaids without arms on each side, sucking blood from her neck? Why are they slightly transparent, and why is the central mermaids hands so large? Symbolism?
Is the symmetry important to you? Sometimes I find that symmetry can be aesthetic in itself, but other times it can make drama a bit less dramatic.

[jramauri]

Hi Stahlberg
First of all thank you very much for taking some time to help us. This thread is really amazing.
Well, I'm painting a representation of Hindu god Shiva. I need some help in 3 points:
His pose, that I want to appears dynamic and solid;
With the background, that I'd like to have a solid depth sense;
And above all with lighting over the characters. It's a bit hard tackle with this lighting, as in the scene night is falling and there's a fire circle around the chars.
Thanks in advance for your help and attention.

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/361/shivahh3.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Two more images. The first one, again not much to crit, so my changes don't look very big. :)

Note the second one - I tried to show how important it is to decide before hand exactly from where the light is coming. The painting of the face doesn't show a strong particular direction for the light (it does some, but it's not fully explored).

http://www.androidblues.com/POP200.gif


.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP201.gif

[Stahlberg]

One more image:

http://www.androidblues.com/POP202.gif


.

[jramauri]

Beautifuly done. Thank you very much! Just a question: Do you think it's indispensable to change the color of sky? I forgot to mention previously, but I think the red color is important here, because this moment I'm depcting is a moment of potential rage of Shiva. He's the god of destruction and while executes his dance, can destroy all the universe, altough his calm face... Couldn't I use a darker red, instead of blue?

[Stahlberg]

Do you think it's indispensable to change the color of sky? Couldn't I use a darker red, instead of blue?

Sure, I didn't know about the destructive aspect... but in that case use photographs of sunsets as reference, such as these:

http://www.bigfoto.com/themes/nature/sky/clouds-sunset-m7y.jpg
http://www.bigfoto.com/sites/galery/sky/sunset-clouds-mx5.jpg
http://bitao.smugmug.com/photos/64212218-L.jpg

Mountains in this light will be either nearly black, or medium bluish purplish, or somewhere inbetween.

[jramauri]

Thanks again, for the tips and links.

[mirre]

"Mirre,
that under-water image you made, what is actually going on there? :) Sorry, I guess I'm just a little confused. Is that a one-eyed mermaid in the middle, with two bloodsucking red-haired mermaids without arms on each side, sucking blood from her neck? Why are they slightly transparent, and why is the central mermaids hands so large? Symbolism?
Is the symmetry important to you? Sometimes I find that symmetry can be aesthetic in itself, but other times it can make drama a bit less dramatic."




The answer to this is

A dinner feast for beasts of prey,( the wormy looking things on either side with red hair mixed with blood). Dinner is the one eyed mermaid. :)

and

Yes in this picture symmetry is quit important As it ought to function as an identifiable image if you flip it vertical. It it is partly on that account I got stuck. Flipped vertically the image transforms to either an ugly fish or it will remind you of Animal in the Muppet Show. And yet, You still have the half eaten mermaid and the two wormy transparent female looking monster spirits.

I wanted to try to build an image that gives the observer a chance to discover new images that looks as if they where made by chance, but they are actually build in. This multiple imaging is one thing I have tried to incorporate in to my art when working as an professional artist with traditional ” art printing” for the last 10 years. What the observer sees in an image might surprise the creator of the image.


As the three characters in the images are non human, I wanted to try to create something that looks identifiable as human but still it´s not, therefor untraditional look of the mermaid, she is both ugly, one eyed and has unproportionally big hands. I picture that big hands are more functional for underwater living, it does help allot in swimming. There are no symbolic meaning build in the handsize from my account, but if one want to read in a symbolic meaning it should be possible.


Still the main problem in the image, as I see it, is the flatness due to the lack of “correct” light and shadowing that would create an 3d illusion of depth in this 2d image. Maybe if I tried to make the wormycreatures more transparent and more gloving from within it would help a bit. I try that. And I do have a hand problem in the picture as well, they could have been more hand like realistic.

I am new to drawing in photoshop, this is my second image completely generated from scratch, that looks presentable. My inexpirence with how to solve encountered problem with flatness in coloring and shading on screen do get in my way. I tend to go blind on my own images and how to improve them, creating an 3D illusion.


So, when I saw this fantastic tutorial thread I simply could not resist it.:)
Therefor I would bee most grateful for any suggestions on how to improve the lightning to achieve some kind of 3D illusion. It would be very interesting to see this image with your suggestions.

Please, please, please do feel free to paintover.
I have so much to learn.:)



Mirre

[joelfurtado]

wow, mr. Stahlberg, this thread is amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to do all this work, I'm learning so much just from watching your critiques of other peoples images. I wanted to submit a few of my paintings, with these two I really wanted to get an unrealistic approach to the color so the images would have a more fantasy feel. I think maybe it went too far though, and I would like to see your approach to the color/lighting. You dont' have to do both images, but even just getting verbal feedback would be great. Thanks again!

http://www.joelfurtado.com/images/digital/foulu.jpg

http://www.joelfurtado.com/images/digital/mononoke.jpg

[Skjoldbroder]

Thanks a lot for the paint-over. I need to "analyse" it a bit more, but you've managed to turn my pic into something that's a lot more appealing. Too bad I didn't have time to follow Rebecca's "50 heads" anatomy thread.. maybe I should start my own :)

Once again thanks, much appreciated!

[Albius]

Glad you're still doing this- it's an excellent help.

Here's something I've been working on; I thought it'd be fun to put a believable and non-anthropomorphic fantasy creature in a modern, human setting.
The bookshelves aren't quite finished, but other then that, I'm not really sure what else I can do with ths-- anything you could do to improve the realism or believability would be welcome.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5061/bird3wc4.jpg

Thanks.

[maxspider3000]

amazing thread, Stahlberg ... thanks for all of your efforts ...
I have this picture witch was my entery on spectacular challenge, so hope you can help me on it .. :)

http://features.cgsociety.org/gallerycrits/92070/92070_1133714272.jpg

[escapizm]

i know you've probably got way too much to be getting on with but could you take a gander here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3995302#post3995302 and give me your opinion? i may need some paintover help later, but as yet i am nowhere near that stage. Thanks!

[Stahlberg]

Cool idea!
A few suggestions:
1. the parachute to be a bit more separated from the bears, to read more like a parachute and not part of the bear.
2. the lasers can come from the bears eyes instead, more striking visually I think
3. the lasers should shoot just above the head of the fleeing man, with a similar perspective to the street, to bring more drama and action, to better explain why he's in such a panic, and to lead the eye better between the 2 main subjects.
4. make it not a fully sunlit day, but a bit darker, to be able to use the laser beams as main illumination, which I think would be really effective here. Maybe cloudy afternoon, or even night

.

[Stahlberg]

Here's Mirre's picture, finally.
As you can see I toned down the colors and contrasts a lot, I almost always do that, but I think it's especially important in underwater scenes. I also changed the lighting, which is very diffuse and blue underwater. (And always remember, there are no specular highlights on objects in water.)
I made the hands smaller, and added an eye to the center mermaid. I just couldn't see a scientific reason why they'd be human-like hands and eyes, yet so different in other ways. :) The attackers, I removed the shoulders and breast-like things, which also didn't make much sense to me (unless you have a good explanation).
I made the image less symmetrical, in spite of what you said about that, but at least I kept the general feeling of symmetry... I just feel that with realistic fantasy images, it's all too easy to break the suspension of disbelief, and I think perfect symmetry would do just that here.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP199.gif


With this one, there was a question how to make the colors more 'fantasy' like... I think Maxfield Parish, and the old style animated feature film backgrounds are a good reference for that. Old style and modern that is, as in the 60's they went crazy and started painting backgrounds that look like avante garde abstract crap... luckily that ridiculous fashion soon came to an end. :)

http://www.androidblues.com/POP203.gif

.

[mirre]

Thank you so much mr Stahlberg:)

for taking the time to make this paintover. This is verry good, I see and I do agree with you.

I will have to make some serius changes to achive that underwatery feeling. It migth take some time for me to redo the image, but I will post it in my portfolio when done.

Once again thank you so much for taking the time I have learned allot from looking att this paintover.

Best regards
Mirre

[Stahlberg]

Here's another image. I flipped him because I find that usually - if there's a single non-centered character -it's best for the composition that it faces into the picture instead of out of it.
I also bent his (her?) head down more, so he can read what he's writing. And I tried to balance him better, with one hand/foot on the paper so the paper won't move.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP204.gif

[escapizm]

Thanks so much for the advice, its going to help a lot!

[Stahlberg]

One more image...


http://www.androidblues.com/POP205.gif

[Albius]

Thanks for the advice. I don't think I'll mess with the composition at this point, but having him stand on the paper makes a lot of sense.

[Gabe]

Here's another one

I didn't use reference aside from the biped in 3D max for the pose.

Edit: Updated the picture.


http://home.comcast.net/~gabe687/taven.jpg

[slowpid]

This request is a little different. I have been working on this 3d character for a while, but I cant get the head correct. You dont have to paint over all the images, the side or front perspective would be great, also, if the request is to different from the others in the thread, feel free to ignore.

Its a very generous thing to volunteer so much of your time, thanks.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5469/womanv13un1ah6.th.jpg (http://img444.imageshack.us/my.php?image=womanv13un1ah6.jpg)

[greenbd]

Stahlberg,

I'm amazed at the ways you've improved so many pieces. Here's my latest. I'm pretty happy with this one, but would like to know if you have any ideas for further improvement before I call it finished. The premise is that my fiancée has a magic hat that can transport her wherever she wants to go--in this case, to visit me. Thanks!

http://www.briangreen.org/art/wip/Magic_Hat/Magic_Hat_21.jpg

[Vahn]

hi there mr stahlberg

Im pretty much at a stage where i cant go on. I wanted to create some more believeable light on the sewer/mermaid/king coming trough some barred window from the upper left. I would appreciate any suggestion from you on how to manage the light better.


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b120/Vahnin/swk.jpg

[thegreensquid]

Hello there, it's been a while but I haven't stopped painting. I just don't like the idea of constantly using this thread's awesomeness as a crutch.

But I'm afraid I must bother you again. I've been trying to go from greyscale paintings and coloring them in photoshop, but they don't ever seem to turn out right. At least not in my opinion.

Here's my most recent attempt.
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3200/robotrisinggu4.th.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=robotrisinggu4.jpg)

Aside from color, I'm not sure about composition or what extra details I could add to get my idea across.

Basically the decaying alien body on the left transferred his conciousness to the bot on the right. And the bot is waking up for the first time long after the original body decayed into a mummy-ish type thing.

Not quite sure what I can add, but I know there's something missing.

[kimpiko]

Heya Mr. Stahlberg!

Just to post my piece on this thread. As mentioned before, I can't really get Belle's face to look realistic, and I can't mix in the blue light with the Beast's fur. I'm absolutely sure the light's the problem but I don't know how to fix it.

Would greatly appreciated any comments or criticism that you might have.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v256/kimpiko/batb.jpg

[Gabe]

If you are using Photoshop, you can try messing with different layer settings.

Overlay

Color

soft light

etc.

You can make big changes real quick this way.

[Stahlberg]

Two more images.
I made a mistake in the first one, the bright white highlight on the chest obviously can't be brighter than the lightsource it's reflecting, so it should be toned down a bit, and more yellowish orange perhaps.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP206.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP208.gif

[Gabe]

ah the head

People kept telling me he looks like a midget.

I couldn't see it till now.

And I need to keep in mind the strength of the light sources on him.

I wish there was a class like this when I went to art school.


Can you explain a little on why you used the purple shadow. It looks better, but why?


Thank you Steven.

[Stahlberg]

Can you explain a little on why you used the purple shadow. It looks better, but why?
(I added a slight touch of blue, which mixed with existing color looks bluish/purple)
3 reasons, 1 yes it does look better. Why is that? Who can say... it's one of those things with human perception. For some reason grayish purple or grayish blue looks great together with fiery colors. Green, not so much. And his face was starting to look greenish after I added the highlight on the side.
Second reason, since blue is the opposite of orange, adding blue next to orangey colors makes them stand out, sets them off, makes them look stronger.
Third reason, it's a traditional thing in movies and paintings - keep one side warm, one cool... for the reasons stated above I guess.
For a more extreme look, push the blue much brighter.

[Gabe]

I see

Thanks for the explanation, that's very interesting. Something I never really think about.

[Stahlberg]

The Beauty and the Beast
The OP asked me for advice on the lighting, and Belle's face, where he was going for more realism than the original animated character. I also added some comments on Beast's anatomy, based on some online reference I checked.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP207.gif

[Stahlberg]

greenbd wrote:
Here's my latest. I'm pretty happy with this one, but would like to know if you have any ideas for further improvement before I call it finished. The premise is that my fiancée has a magic hat that can transport her wherever she wants to go--in this case, to visit me.
Well you're right to be happy with it, I'm not sure I can find much to improve either. The room looks great, anatomy is good... lighting might be a bit bland, if you ever want to try a new version, try putting a lamp on the bed, take a photo and use as reference. You know, as if your girlfriend or the teleportation process itself is casting light around the room. :)
The hat could be either a bit pointier or a bit floppier perhaps, maybe like these:
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?p=wizard%20hat&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2&fr2=tab-web
The perspective seems a bit funny on the chair, shouldn't we be able to see part of a leg below it?

.

[Gabe]

I'd put some folds on the bed from her standing on it and make her sinking in to it a bit, unless she's floating.

[greenbd]

Stahlberg and Gabe,

Thanks for your comments! I think I'll go for a floppier hat and more distortion on the bed surface, and I like the idea of setting up effects lighting for reference.

I agree that the perspective on the chair looks a bit wonky, but it's true to the photo reference (attached). Is this a situation where a change to make it "look right" would be in order? Maybe the pose is part of the problem--most of my lower legs are hidden by foreshortening or other objects.

http://www.briangreen.org/art/wip/Magic_Hat/ref1.jpg

[Stahlberg]

The reference photo is a good try, but I think the lens was too wide-angle... it gives an extreme perspective distortion at the bottom of the chair that looks unreal when painted. It also places heavy emphasis on you and the chair, taking it away a little from the other character. I also think you shouldn't use a flash... in fact never use a flash for reference photos. In fact avoid it as the plague... It never turns out good. It destroys the lighting, it's the worst way to light a scene possible... unless you're going for that documentary or amateur look. :D See, it explains why I thought your lighting in the image was a bit bland. If you'd used normal lighting, "available light" as photographers say, then you'd have had a deep shadow under the chair and less of a problem there as well.

My suggestion is to reshoot the reference, with a lightsource on the bed, and a slightly less wide angle. If it turns out too blurry, just buy a cheap tripod, an excellent investment in any case.
If you want to avoid repainting the whole image, you could just reshoot yourself and comp it in, that would help a lot too I think.
Of course the image is ok the way it is, as I've already said, but if you want to improve it, that would be my suggestion.

[Stahlberg]

Another image...

http://www.androidblues.com/POP210.gif

.

[damontana]

it's a tribute to the life of miles davis
the idea is the baby blowing
http://davidsion7.googlepages.com/miles.jpg


for easing your work
http://davidsion7.googlepages.com/milesbg.jpg
http://davidsion7.googlepages.com/miles.png

[poex]

Mr. Stahlberg,
thx alot for this great opportunity
i started this Head a while ago with the intention of creating a photorealistic head with a perfect mesh/edgeloops (for animation and Texturing, still havnt a clue about unwrapp for a texture, based on photoreference... but thats different problem)
i am not sure about the proportions (because of the different reference pictures, slight different angle, huge impact on the proportions), eyes seem a little small, not sure about the position of the ears... looking forward to see your paintover :)
best regards & Thx Alot !!!

http://home.arcor.de/poekelwurst/bilder/kopf/poe001.jpg

http://home.arcor.de/poekelwurst/bilder/kopf/poe001.jpg

[Stahlberg]

poex, that's a good start. And I agree it's very difficult to judge proportions in a 3d program, as you say. But the first thing you have to remember - very important - is to not use a wide angle on the perspective camera. You must use an angle that corresponds to what we usually see in closeups in movies, on tv and in professional photographs. If you're using Maya, that would mean NEVER use the default AOV of 54 point something, but pull it down to around 40 - 30. At least. For a woman, perhaps even lower.

Other than that, topology seems ok, but it's very important at this stage to test the topology by doing a morf target or two - see if you can make a good smile out of this, for instance. If you run into any difficulties, you may have to change the topology; better now than later after painting all the textures and creating 40 morf targets. :)

Comments on the model: looks very good to me, all I'd look into would be the corners of the mouth, which are usually more softly pushed 'in' if you know what I mean.

[Stahlberg]

Here's another image
I just did some rough tweaks to this, to illustrate how I think the idea can be made clearer. Adjusting the pose of the robot, a bit less dynamic, more like he's just slowly waking up, adding "transfer helmets" to better show that something has been transferred, placing the two characters more apart and more symmetrically, to better show some kind of connection or tension between them.. hope it helps.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP211.gif

[Vahn]

thank you very much mr stahlberg :D :applause:

thats what i wanted to see :thumbsup:

[ErikSvensson]

To support what stahlberg said regarding the AOV in maya, I made a test.

http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kamerablahfj0.jpg
The left has an AOV of 56, the right AOV 18. It can really mess things up if you use high AOV, I prefare somewere around 25-30.

Erik

[Stahlberg]

Hey guys,
I'll be attempting to make a Gnomon DVD beginning of December.
Anyone who's okay with me presenting his/her particular POP from this thread on that DVD, repeating my paintover live, discussing it etc, please let me know by emailing me or PMing me a link to that POP (or just cite the number of the gif). Please let me know if you want credit or want to remain anonymous. I probably have enough material anyway, I thought I should ask just in case.
(Note that giving permission doesn't guarantee a certain POP will show up on the DVD.)

If you're not okay with it, no need to get in touch, as in that case I won't use your POP.
Thanks everyone for your support, without you this thread wouldn't be possible

.

[mer]

poex, that's a good start. And I agree it's very difficult to judge proportions in a 3d program, as you say. But the first thing you have to remember - very important - is to not use a wide angle on the perspective camera. You must use an angle that corresponds to what we usually see in closeups in movies, on tv and in professional photographs. If you're using Maya, that would mean NEVER use the default AOV of 54 point something, but pull it down to around 40 - 30. At least. For a woman, perhaps even lower.

Do you know what is the human eye's AOV? Could you explain if possible why you prefer a lower value for woman models?

Cheers!

[Wexter]

[QUOTE=Stahlberg]
If you're not okay with it, no need to get in touch, as in that case I won't use your POP.
Thanks everyone for your support, without you this thread wouldn't be possible

First of all, i want to thank U for everithing in this post.
Ok, here is my first image, after a long time thinking, should i send it? :)
This is a scene of a summer time just 2 hours before sunset, i wonder how should i render the colors, and the diferent materials interacting with them. Thank u mister Stahlberg, i would very please knowing whats "wrong" in this image

http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/6566/gnomo2mu0.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Do you know what is the human eye's AOV?
equivalent in 35mm camera: some say 50mm, some say 44, others 135... One problem is, focal length varies with viewing distance and cropping of image, another is how different the human eye is from a camera (see below).
A survey on this was conducted by a UK magazine over 20 years ago. Most people questioned felt the focal length giving a field of view and perspective similar to the human eye was around 70 mm.

To get that in Maya, you first have to switch to one of the 35mm pre-defined film-gates, then enter 70 in the focal length attribute. Alternatively, if you don't want to disturb your camera (because switching film-gates changes a lot of other attributes as well), just go by feel and decrease the AOV down from its default, until you feel it looks most natural to you (and perhaps a tiny bit narrower than that).


more in-depth:
It is very difficult to assign an equivalent "photographic" focal lenght to the human eye, because the human eye has roughly two different retina fields. The central field, the fovea, has a very fine structure with an angular resolution of about 1 minute of arc i.e. about 1/3000 radian. A good eye can distinguish a mesh of 1mm period at a distance of 3 metres. In this regime the eye is in fact a diffraction-limited lens. Unfortunalely this holds only for a few degrees of field. But do not forget that the eye is constantly scanning the angular field.


On the other hand the eye is sensitive to movement and color up to a very wide angle not far from 180 degrees. So the eye is both a telephote *and* a fisheye, but not with the same angular resolution.


If you look at some famous paintings, you can try to assign an equivalent focal lenght to the picture, and you'll find a very wide range of "focal lenghts". For example some famous paintings by Cezanne showing the inside of his room are equivalent to a wide angle. Some famous Dutch paintings like the "View of Delft" would be close to a horizontal "panoramic" field of view. Traditional Chinese and Japanese landscape images favor a wide angle vertical field ("portrait", not "landscape" paper size...;-) But there are also many examples of telephoto-like paintings (for example all conventional close-up portraits of people), the artist having the ability to cencentrate on a small filed of view simply because the eye allows to do this.


Could you explain if possible why you prefer a lower value for woman models?
Most photographs of beautiful women have a longer focal length than 70 mm - usually from 80mm to 135. Shorter than 80mm lens (in 35mm camera) is considered increasingly unflattering to any human face in closeup, but especially the female. It increases the size of the nose and decreases the size of the skull. Try it with your own 3d apps.
Look at this link:
http://www.hash.com/users/jsherwood/tutes/focal/focal.html
By all means read the whole thing, a good primer to focal lengths etc, but especially look at the 2 bottom images.

[SylvanMist]

Thanks for all that info on focal lengths! I'm a newb when it comes to rendering and camera settings and all that...that totally explained why my model looked like crap in perspective mode, I always kept it in orthographic because of that :p lol

[mer]

Thank you so much for your in-depth reply Stahlberg:)

I generally understand the problems caused by lens distortion and I usually try to use a FOV that creates 'natural' looking images 'by feel' like you said ,without too much 'fish eye lens distortion' but I would had never thought that photographers prefered narrower AOF for women:).The link you posted is really useful and informative!

By the way do you happen to know how we can remove perspective distortion and lens distortion from photos that are used as modeling-reference in the 3d apps' orthographic viewports, in order to model a head's shape and proportions correctly?

(I just use 'telephoto' photographs to avoid much distortion but is there more we can do?)

Cheers

[Stahlberg]

By the way do you happen to know how we can remove perspective distortion and lens distortion from photos that are used as modeling-reference in the 3d apps' orthographic viewports, in order to model a head's shape and proportions correctly?
(I just use 'telephoto' photographs to avoid much distortion but is there more we can do?)

Hm, I don't think so... anything we might try, like a negative Spherize in Photoshop to counteract a "fish-eye" type effect for instanc, would only be guesswork and odds are it would be about as correct as the original, or worse, even less correct. I think the best thing to do is what you do - to use as long a lens as possible. We also have to make sure the subject is centered in the FOV, and the camera horizontal to the center of mass of the subject (not looking down or up at it).
One way to increase your apparent focal length is to only use a small area near the center of the available frame, this means you need a lot of space to be able to back away from the subject. It lowers resolution, but up to a point it should be ok, and for texture shots you can always approach closer.

Apart from that we can only try to compensate for distortions as we model, use more than one photo from different angles, and when two photos contradict each other using our knowledge of how distortion happens to know which way to tweak. (To do this of course it helps a lot if we know the lens used for each photo, which might be hard if we didn't shoot it ourselves.)

.

[Feeank]

Hi there Mr. Stahlberg, I've been following this thread for a few weeks now and it's been an amazing experience so far.
I wanted to tap on your opinion with this piece. This is a model of a comic book character called "V" I've been working on for the last 8 months or so, I've made a couple of renders with it but so far none of those attempts have been satisfying. This is my last attempt to generate a moodier image, a menacing figure in a cobbled-stoned back alley of London (though I don't intend to have a background) Thanks in advance for any suggestion you may have!

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/feeank/v_0_grados_b.jpg

[mer]

Thanx again for your reply Stahlberg!

I did a search on cgtalk for perspective-distotion and I found that the Gimp image processing software has a tool that might help.(tools>tranform>perspective)I may give it a try.

Morover a plugin called PTLens ( http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/ ) .

''PTLens is Windows software that corrects lens pincushion/barrel distortion, vignetting, chromatic aberration, and perspective. PTLens is available as a standalone application or Photoshop plug-in. View examples (http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/example.html) of PTLens at work, or download (http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/download.html) the software for a free 10 image trial. Got a Mac? Try LensFix (http://www.kekus.com/index.html).''

Check the examples link the results look really IMPRESSIVE!Perhaps this software is the solution to our perspective -distortion problems:)

Any experience with any of these?

[SulaMoon]

Hello again Stahlberg! =)

Can you please help me out here?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v451/SulaMoon/yet-one-more-face-that-sux.jpg

I have trouble with anatomy and shading =p the nose seems flat...
thanks in advance!

[Snape]

Hi Steven,

First of all, this is a great thread. Its really helpfull to get an insight to your lighting and mood approach.

Ive given this my best shot without going too overboard on detail and would be very interested to see your slant on it.

The story is that the woman is in the middle of fleeing the scene when see suddenly realises that she has been caught.

http://www.spencercarpenter.co.uk/images/paintings/frightened_woman03.jpg

Thanks very much in advance.

Spencer Carpenter

------------------

I updated this on 04/12/06. When I saw that you were away for a week I decided to do some more work on this in the 2D Critique forum. Ive since realised that I really do need the anatomy checking as I was way out a week ago and probably still need to improve it now:sad: .

Spence

[nerdybob]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for this thread, been learning alot from it. Just want some critique on this character and any suggestion would be great, to finish it.

thanks

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r135/nerdybob/MetalWings.jpg
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r135/nerdybob/MetalWings1.jpg

[Stahlberg]

I'll be away for a week (at Gnomon in LA), so hold off on the posting of POPs for a time please. :)


Any experience with any of these?
No, sorry, I haven't. I'll try them out some day, they look promising. You need to know the lens that was used to get the full potential of these apps, but with 3d.sk for instance they usually post the lens data etc for each session, so that's good.

[spajnal]

Stahlberg, I have to say that you are truely amazing.
The way you give the drawings life... I'm just stunned.

I think you're great!

Keep up the good work.

[zentrady]

You're great...

[goldenarm]

I really enjoyed your lecture in Hollywood Steve! Thank you soo much for coming out here, and sharing your knowledge with us in person. Watching you do some paint overs "live" was a real treat. Based on your lecture at Gnomon alone - I can easily recommend your up-coming DVD for anyone wanting to improve thier 2d/3d renderings. Our studio will be adding it to our library for sure!

Cheers!

[zentrady]

I'll be away for a week (at Gnomon in LA), so hold off on the posting of POPs for a time please. :)


sorry for my post. I just see this.

[Stahlberg]

Hey nerdybob, that's difficult to paint over, as I explain in the start of this thread. So I'll just try to give some crits: the hands seem a bit too flat and also too thin, which is a common mistake (for example, you never see the opposite). :)
See here:
http://www.androidblues.com/handtut.html
Compare the size of the deltoids to the hands, the deltoids seem way too big for them. Not sure if the deltoids are too large, perhaps, but I definitely think the hands are too small.
The face together with the skull looks a little long and narrow. If you want some more crits on the face you could try some closer renders.
The shadows in this scene seem too weak, it almost looks like depth-mapped spotlights. Try to use something with GI or FG instead, to get some appropriate darkness in the armpits and under the chin and nose.

Otherwise I like the anatomy, and the design.

[Stahlberg]

Wexter, I remember you wrote that was a viking in your image? It doesn't look very much like a viking though, so do you want me to suggest how to do that as well? Or is it just supposed to be any kind of fantasy soldier guy.

.

[Wexter]

hi Stahlberg,

Is it just supposed to be any kind of fantasy soldier guy.

I would be happy to see, the shadows, and the light right in the picture, as well some texture or more finished image.
Thank U again :)

[Antsidious]

Hi Stahlberg.

I am working on this illustration of my Grandmother (who passed away 2 years ago) to give to my father, aunts, and uncle for Christmas. I am having a bit of difficulty with making her eye's look real (or even good for that matter) through her glasses. I was also wondering if you used any custom brushes in Photoshop when you paint hair? Thank you in advance for any help that you can give and I also wanted to say that I LOVE this thread!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/lankiet/GrandmawTaylor_IP.jpg

[Stahlberg]

Five more images:

http://www.androidblues.com/POP211b.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP212.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP213.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP214.gif

.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP215.gif

.

[SulaMoon]

ah.. pure magic! =D
Thanks a lot for making thing make sense!

[Snape]

Thanks so much for your time on my painting Steven.

I really thought it couldn't get much more contrasty but you have proved me wrong! The new lighting has made it look much more realistic.

I will definitely be interested in a copy of your workshop dvd when it comes out.

If you had any use for it please feel free to use the painting as an example in the workshop although I know you said you probably won't need any more.

Thanks again!

[Victoria]

Steven, I've been learning so much from this thread. You are awesome for doing this!!

I was wondering if you could take a look at this sketch of mine. I would love some help with the anatomy and coloring. She's supposed to look older, like 30, without makeup, and in some parking garage or similarly dreary location. Thanks in advance!!

http://violasong.com/person.jpg

[phungdinhdung]

^^ sorry if i bother u , i did a 3D pieces for my blizzard art contest ( it 's over now ) . here it is :
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/phungdinhdung/fallencarriercgtalk.jpg
i see there is really something missing in this pieces or something unescessary that make it seem unatural and rookie :sad: . i try to fix it but i cant find what should i do exactly .
thanks in advances :)

[aumortis]

Hello Steven! It's so inspiring that you still help "newbies" :D

Could you please look at my latest drawing? I don't know what to correct/if there's anything to correct actually.. [I mean there is, but maybe there's no point..]
http://www.lublin.mm.pl/~shadow4/wros26.jpg

[thejeff]

i am at a complete loss at this point. i very much love parts of this, but something beyond my grasp is still out there needing to be done. given the impressive assessments i have witnessed in this thread, i thought that i might turn here for some insight. i am self taught (ie i have just begun a formal investigation into composition. golden triangles?!? who knew?) and am starting to really pay for the lack of a bit more formal training! i can't decide whether it is a composition problem or what. anyway, time to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and ask an expert. i will lsten very closely to any insights you have time to give, and thanks in advance.
er, she is a "light elf", giving off a fairly faint luminescence, btw.

[woox]

Hello everybody! I'm quite new to digital painting. I watched this thread a while and thought of posting a piece of mine, but I'm not sure it fits in the rules.
Anyway,here it is. I doodled around, painted the head and added the snake togive the piece more life.
I think the main Problem is the Proportion, the mouth of the PlantLady and the colour of the whole thing. I didn't wanted to paint the snake in the same colour as the head to make it aggresive, but i think i failed the goal.
Maybe you or anybody else could help me.
TIA
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/mmayrhoferr/alien_snake.jpg

[alexbaer]

Hey, Stahlberg!

First of all-- it's absolutely great what you are doing, thanks so much for this! :)

2nd.. my request. :D
So, I'm a fairly new artist. Until now I've been visiting galleries and pretty much watching only other peoples work. Recently I turned 18 and I'm afraid I'm starting to get old! Um.. I drifting a bit here... SO! I'm new to the whole thing and especially coloring is giving me a headache! I can do the overall flat colors with no 'drama'.. but what I want is mood! Here is something that I've been working on...

http://www.artofalexbaer.com/stuff/helpmedothis.png

What I'm trying to achieve is a mysterious, kind of a dark mood-- you know, a bitter smell of brandy and cig's. Style would be kind of a mix of realism and comic. I'm not asking you to color the whole thing, but just a bit advise on how to achieve my goal.. any light source.. snippets, anything? Let me know!

Thanks in advance, and a truckload of thank you's if you pick this one. :)

[Goon]

Howdy Stahlberg,

Throwing another paintover on your plate :(

I'm working on this painting, from a fairly small photoreference, and I'm having trouble giving the face depth, while trying to remain semi-true to the reference. I also can't get her exact likeness, but I'll worry bout that :)

Another thing I'm trying to do is play up the interesting shadows cast by the offscreen tree. I'd like to have some highlights on the hair, but I can't figure out how to get them looking right.

Thanks!

<<Reference>> (http://goonworks.com/images/2d/paintings/painting_reference.jpg)

http://goonworks.com/images/2d/paintings/woman_cropped_small.jpg

[LunaticuMaster]

Hello Mr. Stahlberg

I am totall 2d beginner and this is my first atempt at drawing a face.Your paintover and crutiqes will help me a lot.

Thanks

[patbb]

Hi Mr. Stahlberg,

I just wanted to say that I think you are doing an amazing work!!!

This is just beautiful and very generous of you.

I've just looked at the entire 50 pages in a row and i could have continued for 50 more.

Just amazing!!

Thank you very much!!

-p

[Stahlberg]

Here are a few more:
This one, I wasn't sure what to do as I don't have the reference. I just added a touch of shadow under the eyelid, and the same highlights I could see on the tip of the nose. Then I created some volume on the hair with a plain brush, then at the end added some streaks to it with a homemade brush consisting of a few spots.
To do eyes under glasses, unless the eyes are distorted a lot by the lenses, I'd simply paint the eyes as if the glasses weren't there, then add the cast shadow from the glasses, next the glasses themselves, and finally the highlights of the lenses. this can be done on a separate layer in PS so you can always go back and fiddle with it.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP217.gif

The next one was supposed to be set in a parking garage.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP218.gif

This one, I treated as an exercise in composition. First I blurred the image to make clearer what was going on with the larger masses... then I moved around some parts, darkened and lightened other parts, until the composition was more balanced and pleasing.
One good rule to follow is: unless it's shining with its own light, GROUND OR SEA CAN NEVER BE LIGHTER THAN SKY/SUN. Another good rule is to try to tonally 'flatten' terrain at different distances - limit the dynamic range of each part of terrain. Also it helps to follow a scheme, such as gradually lighter or darker from near to far (usually gradually lighter works best). In this case, you see the foreground has been darkened, and the mid to background is lighter than the foreground.
Another good rule is to never place the main focus in the center. The main focus is usually the place with strongest contrast - in this case the crashed ship and it's glowing engines.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP219.gif

You should get some reference for a waterfall - I did my best but it's not that great, because I didn't use reference.
Here also, remember that ground must always be darker than the sky...
Another good guideline: darkest part of a cloud should hardly ever be darker than the mid tone of the ground.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP220.gif

This one is very beautiful, hardly anything to add here, I tried to improve the composition slightly.

http://www.androidblues.com/POP221.gif

.

[Victoria]

Steven, thanks so much! You have no idea how mind-blowingly awesome it is to see my picture reworked by a master. I'm learning so much just by analyzing all the changes you made. Thank you, and looking forward to seeing more cool stuff in this thread!:bowdown:

[thejeff]

ah, i was tinkering with lowering the far hill, but i think you removed the tension i was feeling completely. that was very helpful, thanks.

[Stahlberg]

Couple nice references of waterfalls:
http://animatedstardust.typepad.com/photos/water_sky_and_inbetween/river_path_waterfall_2.jpg
http://www.delderfield.nl/nature/images/waterfall.jpg

[Diffused]

Hi Steven!

Wow, quite an amazing workshop you got here.
I really need your help.
I'm kind of lucky because this is your area of expertise.
I've been using a few of your images as reference for anatomy.
Feel free to give me a drastic critique, I feel that I need it.

http://cgmesh.com/upload/Mark_wip/Amazon/forum/Amazon_12.jpg

The actual thread link can be found in my signature.
Thanks! :love: