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oXYnary
05-16-2006, 08:53 AM
Well since UED3 version is available to the public (with the AGEIA physics card) some NDA's can be crossed here without Epic yelling. What method would I use to say oh, make a facial rig that would work with it? Should I be doing a bone system or morphs? (Personally since Im not good at setting complex bone interaction morphing would be easier).

If it is a bone system, does anyone have a downloadable demo head that shows a good example of how to set up the bone system for a real time application? In 3ds max.


Oh and if it is bones being the prefered way, how many different bone weights per vertex are allowed? (I think I remember it being only 2 for UED 2)

Also, even if I choose morphing (if again UED 3 is leaning this way). Your talking to a facial newb here, so where do I bone and where do I morph? In example, I assume I still have a bone system for the mouth and eyes. Do I have one for the tongue also, or just a morph? What if one of my morph targets needs the mouth open (example: displaying the emotion fear)? How is that accomplished between morphs and bones?

M.E.L.
05-16-2006, 02:53 PM
Well since UED3 version is available to the public (with the AGEIA physics card) some NDA's can be crossed here without Epic yelling. What method would I use to say oh, make a facial rig that would work with it? Should I be doing a bone system or morphs? (Personally since Im not good at setting complex bone interaction morphing would be easier).

As far as face stuff goes, Unreal usually plays nicest with bone based facial setups. Last I had heard they were using FaceFX from OC3Entertainment as a licensed option for generating facial animation which plugged into Max/Maya and ran off a bone setup.


If it is a bone system, does anyone have a downloadable demo head that shows a good example of how to set up the bone system for a real time application? In 3ds max.

There should be some example scenes, if not then head on over to www.oc3entertainment.com as they have a pretty cool demo of bone driven facial animation.


Oh and if it is bones being the prefered way, how many different bone weights per vertex are allowed? (I think I remember it being only 2 for UED 2)

Unreal3 supports 4 influences per vert.


Also, even if I choose morphing (if again UED 3 is leaning this way). Your talking to a facial newb here, so where do I bone and where do I morph? In example, I assume I still have a bone system for the mouth and eyes. Do I have one for the tongue also, or just a morph? What if one of my morph targets needs the mouth open (example: displaying the emotion fear)? How is that accomplished between morphs and bones?

You need to remember that morphs are extremely taxing on game engines due to the calculation of verts on every frame to interpolate the deformation. Generally morphs are just used for cinematics and a bone driven setup is what runs the realtime characters. Blending between bone rotations and morphs can be done in a number of manners, generally your application of choice will give you the ability to work one before the other in the input stack as to not have any weird effects.

-s

kees
05-16-2006, 03:24 PM
You need to remember that morphs are extremely taxing on game engines due to the calculation of verts on every frame to interpolate the deformation.


Not really true, imo.
If you skin vertices to bones, all vertices will also have to be caculated to get them in the right spot. The fact morph targets are used LESS in games, is because they generally suck up more memory. With some optimisations, this can be reduced as well, but they will still use more memory.

-Kees

oXYnary
05-16-2006, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the info. You know facefx must be a pretty penny when they make no mention of the price on the website (at least up front) ;).

Morphs are used with the source engine (at least in part) Thats why I thought ued3 might have incorporated this being a modern next gen engine.

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