UGAC – Super Shiny and Sexy vehicle – Rules

[DevilHacker]

UGAC – Super Shiny and Sexy vehicle – Frequently Asked Questions:
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Q: I am short on time. Can you sum up the competition in a shorter manner?A: This is an fantasy vehicle comp: design and make a vehicle model that doesn’t currently exist. IE: It can be sci-fi (future), contemporary (but conceptual), or past (fantasy). Be original, and have fun! Q: Where is the Front Page Plug?A: It will be up in an few hours. We decided to wait an moment or so to get any basic questions answered before the masses of fellow CGTalkers’ flood the competition thread. Hopefully answering the majority of the questions before they are asked. [Edit- It has now been posted]

Q: That Poly Count seems really low… Why was such an number chosen, it doesn’t seem to be very “Next-Gen”?A: The specs it looks like we are shooting at are high end current gen, mid-end next gen (xbox 360, PS3). If you stop to think about it, 6000 is really the sweet spot; while it is low enough to not be daunting; it is high enough to get impressive results; while at the same time being not ultra-time consuming (IE: More people theoretically finish). I understand the questions about the polys. But, those are around normal with PC games such as Battlefield 2, Half Life2, and Doom3...
Check it out...[Link (http://games.mirrors.tds.net/pub/ea-games/misc/bf2modpolycountguidelines.doc)]Q: How is voting done?A: Voting is preformed by designated judges. Each Judge is given six (6) points to distribute among the contestants who have finished their projects. (Note: For your entry to be judged, it must be posted in the “submissions” thread) Each judge will critique each entry and then award 1st-3rd place. First place will receive three (3) points, second place will receive two (2) points, and third place will receive one (1) point. This process will be preformed an minimum of three times by different judges, and then be tallied, with the places announced soon after.
Q: What do I win if I get 1st place?A: 1st place winner will be able to choose the topic of the next challenge. They will also get their worked "plugged" on the front page.
Q: Do I need to model an interior or not?
A: 100% up to you.

-More to come soon-
:thumbsup:

[RobertoOrtiz]

Plugged!

-R

[Icarus]

o00o i mite enter this one :D looks and sounds nuts :D

[DevilHacker]

o00o i mite enter this one :D looks and sounds nuts :D
Cool. Sounds sweet, the more the merrier.
I think people will have an blast with this challenge (one of the reasons I am so pumped up about it). I cant wait to see what people come up with.


One of the things about this challenge that is so cool is that the design of your vehicle is truly yours (100% original) so we should see some great results that are not considered mainstream… And to top it off, such a project would look great in everyone’s portfolio since employers look for originality while browsing sites. (Again, one of the reasons I am so excited about this challenge).

--------------------------------------------
Too Everyone:
If anyone has any Questions, feel free to ask.
Plenty of people here (including myself) would be more than happy to help you out.
Also, if this is your first UGAC, don’t worry. We have a great community here that provides awesome, friendly, critiques.

Hope to see everyone around the boards.
-Daren Loney

[mttjss]

might try and enter if I can find some time.

DevilHacker
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5715/imageguidelines5dy.jpg
I am unfamiliar with reflection cube maps and 512 spherical - I know what they are for but not sure how to add them to the model? I am using Maya.

Good Luck to everyone involved.

Matt -

[TwinsenDude]

lol, just so you know, the car on the middle-left in the inspirational art section of the rule book is a real car... not a concept. It's a Lamborghini Murcielago, and I was somehow lucky enough to see one on the street the other day.

[TwinsenDude]

I am unfamiliar with reflection cube maps and 512 spherical - I know what they are for but not sure how to add them to the model? I am using Maya.

Good Luck to everyone involved.

Matt -


Go to your material attribute editor and scroll down to reflection color. Click the map button (the checkered one on the right) and scroll down to environmental textures. You can either select environmental cube or environmental sphere, and then assign textures (we're assuming you'll use image files from your computer) to the one sphere image for env spheres or the 6 cube faces for the env cube.

[CyberGolem]

This link might lead to some inspiration and possibly some insight to vehicle design (at least in the consumer-auto range):

http://www.cardesignnews.com/index.php

Cheerz and good luck.
Chaz

[DevilHacker]

I am unfamiliar with reflection cube maps and 512 spherical - I know what they are for but not sure how to add them to the model? I am using Maya.

Good Luck to everyone involved.

Matt -Looks like Twinsen Dude got to the reply first. I am personally used to working in Softimage XSI the most, but if you need any more help, I am sure that I can pull out maya and see what I can do.

lol, just so you know, the car on the middle-left in the inspirational art section of the rule book is a real car... not a concept. It's a Lamborghini Murcielago, and I was somehow lucky enough to see one on the street the other day.Wow. Thanks for the info. I was sent that image a few months ago, at which point, it was concept art from an art student of a possible sports car. Maybe that’s were he drew his inspiration from? Non-the-less, its still a beautiful piece of art… I will see if I can find the link again…

This link might lead to some inspiration and possibly some insight to vehicle design (at least in the consumer-auto range):

http://www.cardesignnews.com/index.php

Cheerz and good luck.
ChazThanks for the link.
I will add it to the FAQ's asap, and add it to the PDF tomorrow.
When I am at it, I would also add/ suggest the website "cgcars.com" for inspiration.
:thumbsup:

[Carabo]

I know this has been covered in the FAQ but from my experience as a game modeller (racing games) I can say 6000 is really in the lower ranges for car models these days, 10K and above is what I get to make at the moment. BF2 polycounts can't really be compared to those in racing games.

Anyway, 6k is enough to make a good looking model indeed :) but it is low for racing games (the type of game where a super shiny car model would end up I suppose)

[Dennispls]

Ok this sounds like a great competition.(wish it wouldve come a week earlier but:))
ayway to get back to that reflection stuff etc.
i see we got max 2 materials available.
Does HDRI count as well? (since i always place it in the materials editor and then add it to vrays environment.)
so basically if the hdri doesnt count you can use 1 with reflections for the car and one for glass?

[Voluntas]

lol, is it me or did you just use .jpg for images with only 3 colors?

[Daniel]

Dennispls: Does HDRI count as well? (since i always place it in the materials editor and then add it to vrays environment.)
so basically if the hdri doesnt count you can use 1 with reflections for the car and one for glass?

IMHO, Well, since you can't use HDR Images in GameEngines (today), you can't use is for that challenge. Use a 24bit Image for your reflection, just an image you could use in any GameEngine.

[Dennispls]

Damn you're right.
also do you need to model an interior or not?

[uncle_frankie]

IMHO, Well, since you can't use HDR Images in GameEngines (today), you can't use is for that challenge. Use a 24bit Image for your reflection, just an image you could use in any GameEngine.

Er we're using HDR images in our Game Engine. I'd be very surprised if other modern engines didn't.

[cgg]

IMHO, Well, since you can't use HDR Images in GameEngines (today), you can't use is for that challenge. Use a 24bit Image for your reflection, just an image you could use in any GameEngine.

yes you can use HDR in game engienes, a lot of engienes do that !

[Dark3D]

I'm in! I guess I will try another. After coming in last place in the UGAC - Juggernaut Vehicle, you would think I would learn better...:eek:

[HellBoy]

Little of topic here guys, Whats the difference between UGAC and GAC and when was the last GAC

[DevilHacker]

I know this has been covered in the FAQ but from my experience as a game modeller (racing games) I can say 6000 is really in the lower ranges for car models these days, 10K and above is what I get to make at the moment. BF2 polycounts can't really be compared to those in racing games.

Anyway, 6k is enough to make a good looking model indeed but it is low for racing games (the type of game where a super shiny car model would end up I suppose)I hear what your saying, and a lot of people felt the same way. But 6000 is about typical of overall vehicle design in games. In this challenge, you don’t have to design just an racing car... the topic is "vehicle"... use your imagination.

Little off topic here guys, Whats the difference between UGAC and GAC and when was the last GACThere is no difference. When the challenges first started a few years ago, it was not directly sponsored by CGTalk (now CGSociety) therefore the forename was dubbed with “unofficial”… The name was briefly changed for one competition an while ago (I think was “Freaks and Geeks”), in the hope of more participants, but it reverted back soon afterwards… after all, its just an name.

[PhantomDesign]

Hmmmm…. Looks like a fun competition. I would participate (because all I do is vehicle design work), but this is video-game oriented with limited poly counts & my techniques aren’t very compatible. I understand the rules, so there’s no need to defend them. I wish everyone the best.

- Jon :)

[innermindseye]

hey guys, sorry for the newbieness, but how would this spherical reflection material be added in max?

You stated you can use 2 different materials, while in max, its a map channel. I would just put my reflection image into the reflection slot. is this what youmean? or do u mean making a whole differenet shader/material purely for reflection? cos that sounds odd....

[SHEPEIRO]

innermindseye- have one material for your non reflective bits(like tyres etc)

and one for your reflective bits, they look-up the same textures for colour, spec etc but the reflective one would have a reflection map in the reflection slot of the material.

a cube map can be generated in maxes mateial editor, so you could make a nice little scene (ground plane, horizon, maybe some clouds and something to fake the vehicles shadow) then render it out. load it up in the vehicles material and hey presto.

havnt done it for a while so might be missin a few bits, but it isnt hard

a spherical map, is just a normal map square that is projected on to the object using a spherical environment mapping

[SHEPEIRO]

just a thought,

YOU ARE ALLOWED an alpha channel on the colour map, for lights winscreens etc (just saying cos it wasnt stated in the rules.

also I think it would be a cool idea to get a small-ish isometric render of the vehicle for the submissions, so that someone can make a cool line up piccy

[abyjoe]

IMHO, Well, since you can't use HDR Images in GameEngines (today), you can't use is for that challenge. Use a 24bit Image for your reflection, just an image you could use in any GameEngine.

we are using HDR in our game. i think its very rare now that modern engines dont support HRD and other stuff

[SHEPEIRO]

do you need any specialist software to create a hdri image, or can you do it in Photoshop, if you can do it in PS then you can use it, if not then it puts alot of people to a distinct disadvantage and you wont be able to use it

[OriK]

You need a commercial external tool I think. But there is a way to fake HDR maps. And it should be possible to fake that with a shader as well :D . So it should be ok, if everbody can use HDR maps. No disadvantages for anybody and it should be game capable ;) . Especially for engines which don't support HDR Maps ;) .

Found this manual
http://www.orik.de/misc/FakeHDRI.jpg
http://ww.orik.de/misc/FakeHDRI.jpg

[SHEPEIRO]

HDRI ago-go then

thanks for the tip Orik

[NRG-Alpha]

Hey Daren, just a quick question.
Even though the rules specify no feedback or wips till the end of the contest, do we get penalized if we do either or both?

I posted my first attempt just to see if it was on an acceptable path or not.. but I also gave some feedback exchange.

Just curious

Cheers,

NRG

[DevilHacker]

Hey Daren, just a quick question.
Even though the rules specify no feedback or wips till the end of the contest, do we get penalized if we do either or both?

I posted my first attempt just to see if it was on an acceptable path or not.. but I also gave some feedback exchange.

Just curious

Cheers,

NRG
What is it you’re referring too?
Contestants are allowed to comment to other contestants WIP’s. They are however not allowed to comment to other contestants finished entries in the Submissions thread (which will be up in an week or so) until the judging is over…

You are also not allowed to post uncompleted WIP’s in the Submissions thread, only completed entries ready for judging.


Is that what you are referring to?
:curious:


Hope I was able to help.
-Daren Loney

[NRG-Alpha]

Sorry about that..tired and not thinking straight. No, I didn't mean the final submittion thread.. I meant our own.. but it all good. :) Just tired. Don't mind me.

[OriK]

One question regarding the reflections.
Does a reflection mask offend against the rules? I have two many different reflection types which cannot be handled with only two materials. Main reflections are for chrome metal and glass. I also want to create details via normalmap which must not reflect. Not possible without a mask.
Would be important but if not, hmm, I have to excogitate something new.

[requiem2d]

Rules say 2048*1024, assuming 2x 1024*1024 is acceptable too then?

[DevilHacker]

Rules say 2048*1024, assuming 2x 1024*1024 is acceptable too then?yep.

..............

[SHEPEIRO]

OriKid say that you could use the alpha channel on the diffuse map for a reflection mask, but no more maps are allowed, so you may have to divide the model into seethrough/reflective, and non-seethrough/reflection mask materials.

think of a way to get by with the maps and 2 materials allowed, how you set the material up is up to you

[DevilHacker]

Submissions thread will be up tomorrow morning
(about 11am, or so...)

:thumbsup:

[Azeiku]

I've never submitted before and I'm quite the newbie so... I'm thinking about submitting an entry but I have a question.. I'm using Hexagon2 and I wanted to know if I can use subdivisions? Like the smoothing thing or since this is a game submission thing... does it have to all be flat polys? If I can use subdivision, can I use creasing/break/edge weights or should it be pure polygons.

Like I said, I'm new to all this so I don't know how game engines work and the such so when these models get imported into the game, does it allow subdivisions?

Thanks!
Azeiku

[SHEPEIRO]

Azeiku- no sub-d, 6000tri limit!

devil hacker -remind me when does this thing finish

[Pyrotechnic]

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Competition ends June 9th
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(here is some random text to get me over the short post limit thingy)

[Azeiku]

Azeiku- no sub-d, 6000tri limit!

devil hacker -remind me when does this thing finish

Cool.. thanks!

-Azeiku

[NRG-Alpha]

If Im not mistaken, I think HalfLife 2 source engine supports and uses HRD. Lost Coast demo uses HRD (based on HalfLife 2).

But yeah, typically, HDR isn't common in yet. But you can always use the bluffed HDRI article (I think it is posted in the rules thread - or somewhere within this mini challenge thread)

-NRG

[Azeiku]

Another quick question. Do you need to keep the bottom faces? I guess I'm asking if the model has to be solid/closed. Do most people leave the bottom open? Again, I'm new to this and I'm unsure of how it works in game. I'm thinking if you don't need the bottom tris then you can save some tris to use on the top.

Thanks!
Azeiku

[Pyrotechnic]

This is another engine specific questions, some are fine with open models, others will crash and die a horrible fiery death. Seems as this is not an engine specific challenge, I'd say you'd be fine with an open model. Depends also if you'd ever see the bottom, say it got flipped over or something.

[Auctane]

Whats up with the Judges, do we have any yet?

[DevilHacker]

Whats up with the Judges, do we have any yet?Some E-Mails went out a few days ago, and I am sending an few more out today... so far, everything looks to be falling into place.
:thumbsup:

4 Days left!

[DevilHacker]

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8459/cgtalk2daysleft8uy.jpg



Night
-Daren Loney

[NRG-Alpha]

Daren, you have to clear some of your Private Message storage space, mate. :shrug: It's full!
Busy guy you are!

Cheers,

NRG

[zen]

yea i got the "its full" response too.

Im still in it! im painfully late and didnt have as much time as anticipated...Getting ready for a 3 week trip to europe, computer problems, car problems, ...or maybe it was those couple free nights i opted to go out drinking instead... :shrug:
But yea, ill try and put out something! Not quite done modeling, maybe i can forgo normal mapping... there's still a glimmer of hope :thumbsup:

nic

---i also noticed theres only 2 entries... am i the only one lagging behind or could everyone use a slight time extension?

[DevilHacker]

yea i got the "its full" response too.

Im still in it! im painfully late and didnt have as much time as anticipated...Getting ready for a 3 week trip to europe, computer problems, car problems, ...or maybe it was those couple free nights i opted to go out drinking instead... :shrug:
But yea, ill try and put out something! Not quite done modeling, maybe i can forgo normal mapping... there's still a glimmer of hope :thumbsup:

nic

---i also noticed theres only 2 entries... am i the only one lagging behind or could everyone use a slight time extension?
Not to sure if their will be an extension as of this moment.
Try your best to finish on time.

It looks like there will be around 6 total people who will finish on time.
Possible more, possibly less…
To early to tell at this time.

PS: The submissions thread is not a place to post comments until all entries are in, and judged.

[DevilHacker]

Daren, you have to clear some of your Private Message storage space, mate. :shrug: It's full!
Busy guy you are!

Cheers,

NRGyea i got the "its full" response too.
Ghhhh… :argh:
Must… type… faster...

Lol, sorry about that.
Hopefully I can be reached now.


Im still in it! im painfully late and didnt have as much time as anticipated...Getting ready for a 3 week trip to europe, computer problems, car problems, ...or maybe it was those couple free nights i opted to go out drinking instead... :shrug:
But yea, ill try and put out something! Not quite done modeling, maybe i can forgo normal mapping... there's still a glimmer of hope :thumbsup:


nic
Wow… And I thought that I was busy.
Sorry to hear about the computer problem, an know how your feeling right now, as my gateway laptop’s screen just went dead on me (and its only 7 months old!!!) and I have not backed up any data for over 3 months… Though I have to admit car problems would be even worse. At least you have an upside. You should have lots of fun over in Europe. Be sure to take lots of pictures.
:D


Hope you can finish. Your model is very cool.
:thumbsup:

[zen]

[/color]

PS: The submissions thread is not a place to post comments until all entries are in, and judged.



i was just looking for attention :P

But yea ill take tons of pictures. Ill be spending 3 weeks in Vienna, Austria, right near the Schonbrunn palace. Im really into photography now, and got myself a DSLR.
Last year i must have taken 1000pics (not counting the deleted ones). Ill put alot up on my flickr site, use it as a photoblog for friends.

[DevilHacker]

i was just looking for attention :P

But yea ill take tons of pictures. Ill be spending 3 weeks in Vienna, Austria, right near the Schonbrunn palace. Im really into photography now, and got myself a DSLR.
Last year i must have taken 1000pics (not counting the deleted ones). Ill put alot up on my flickr site, use it as a photoblog for friends.Awesome. I always wanted to go to Vienna. Very cool man.
:thumbsup:

[Azeiku]

An extension would be great! I would be in favor. ;-)

-Azeiku

[DevilHacker]

Ok. The challenge is over. No extensions this time…
Please be patience while the judges critique and vote… it should be complete in a few days.


Until then, if you have any ideas for future challenges go ahead and suggest them; though, the winner (first place) will still have the final say on the subject and rules…

[Auctane]

How about a smaller environment, like a movie set you would see in the game The Movies, and give it a theme. Like a nightmare you have had or a place from your dreams.

[DevilHacker]

How about a smaller environment, like a movie set you would see in the game The Movies, and give it a theme. Like a nightmare you have had or a place from your dreams.HaHa... cool idea. I love "the movies"... I think we could get some sponsoring with that idea also...

PS: I talked to a few of the judges a few moments ago, and they will be coming ASAP. Please remember that they have jobs/lives too…

[DevilHacker]

Ok everyone. I think we have waited long enough to let the other judges try to get their critiques in…
It’s time to finish this one up. :D

I will tally the votes tomorrow morning, and get the front page plug up. :thumbsup:
Everyone have a good night.
-Daren Loney

[HellBoy]

how about character design for future challenges. Perhaps character based on themes, e.g. service men, criminals etc

[SHEPEIRO]

how about photo real self portraite bust eeeeek get your ugly mugs out.
3000 tris and a 1024* map (norms and everything)

[Supervlieg]

how about photo real self portraite bust eeeeek get your ugly mugs out.
3000 tris and a 1024* map (norms and everything)

Quoted for agreement!

[vrapp]

how about photo real self portraite bust eeeeek get your ugly mugs out. 3000 tris and a 1024* map (norms and everything)

Nice idea! :)

[SHEPEIRO]

extra points for spots greasy hair and bags under the eyes

[DevilHacker]

Definitely some great Ideas floating around here.
I will PM Orik and see what the final decision is.
:deal:

[DevilHacker]

This challenge is now officially finished!
I would like to give a big thank you to everyone who participated, and a huge thanks to all the judges that have donated their personal time to keep these challenges running. Without you, who knows where we would be.

I hope to see everyone in the next challenge.
:thumbsup:

Here are the official rankings:
1- [with 09 points] OriK (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=85897)
2- [with 06 points] _dan_ (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=4958)
3- [with 02 points] Invention (http://forums.cgsociety.org/member.php?u=201623)

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Front page plug will be up as soon as I get the "ok" from Orik.
Again, congrats to the participants for finishing, and thanks to the judges for their contribution.

Lets keep those ideas flowing.
All eyes are on you Orik.
:thumbsup:

[DevilHacker]

Ok Orik,
I had some spare time tonight, so I tossed some of your renders into the standard frames for an front page plug. The final decision on which image to choose is 100% up to you; and if you prefer, your more than welcome to create your own…
:thumbsup:

Ok, so here are some of the images:
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3677/frontpageplug1front7az.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8219/frontpageplug2front1qc.jpg http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7494/frontpageplug3front7wp.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1461/frontpageplug4front5sg.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7730/frontpageplug1back6mm.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5165/frontpageplug2back5ix.jpg http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/6079/frontpageplug3back5mj.jpg http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5420/frontpageplug4back6do.jpg

[OriK]

I like the idea about the filmsets. But I could not specify a topic. Then came an idea about a small scene with the classic looney tunes. The challenge could be a scene between two characters (e.g. sylvester and tweety or roadrunner and coyote etc). 6000 tris for all. 1x512 for each char (2x512) and 1x (or 2) 1024 for the environment. Normalmaps would not be necessary I think. The scene needn't to be a whole level. Just a scene around the chars.
I think these rules are easy enough to get many participants which can also finish their projects.
But it's just a suggestion. If you don't like to rebuild existing chars, say it. But I like the Looneys :) .

[SHEPEIRO]

man that sounds way too complex to get many finishers :-) id keep it to one object not three, one character and a pedastal is doable IMO,

[Auctane]

I'd like to do the film set. Dont know what to think of the toon idea, since it would be awkward to use normal maps. If it were a character, I'd like to keep it as OG as possible.

[OriK]

Ok, the toony stuff was just an idea. I think an entire filmset in one month could be too much, too. And a char after the vehicle contest would be a good change.
Here are some charideas. I'm not really familiar with them, so I write down what's in my mind. I hope its usable.
an aliens pet (e.g. a small cute kittything ^^ )
a heavy animal transporter (the animal is the transporter)
a humanized existing animal (like in planet of the apes)
the crazy professor (any style) not really imaginative ^^
a ghostbuster (not the "movie" ones)

Some character themes:
"small and cankered"
"hunter and hunted" - two chars again.

More suggestions are appreciated.

[SHEPEIRO]

the two top-uns look good

[luciferous]

Quoted for agreement!

I second that motion!

[DevilHacker]

Hey everyone. Sorry about the short disappearance around here… Our area recently had a series of thunderstorms pass by (with more on the way) and our areas cable went out… which of course means no internet… Luckily they got it back on early (they said it would not be back up until Thursday)… So, I’m setting everything up… Front page plug should be up tonight. And challenge should start once a final topic has been chosen.


PS: all the ideas sound good so far… That last one, (the Ghostbusters) reminds me of luigi's mansion for some reason…
:D

[luciferous]

scrap my last comment.... im quite like oriks suggested topics.... animal transport or humanised animal would be spiffy

[RO]

the transport animal sounds cool a bit generic but still good imo since it leaves it pretty open to even some cartoon like things to realism.

[requiem2d]

Oooooh... Animal Transport :D

[obelisk]

maybe it's just a "new animal", and the alien pets, or transport animals are suggestions. it'd be good to keep this open to broader interpretation.

-O

[Invention]

How about a new type of villian?

something like venom

violator from spawn

green goblin.

leprechaun

chucky

A concept of a gruesome character would be sweet

[HellBoy]

maybe it's just a "new animal", and the alien pets,


yea, or creature type of... creature :rolleyes:

something 4 legged

[SHEPEIRO]

what about platform specific creature.

[DevilHacker]

edit: nm
-----------

We should be hearing from Orik any time now... As he said he was getting an internet connection this week.

[Equinoxx]

Hey guys,

do you mind if I move the supersexy threads into the archive forum ?
or would you like to have them hang around a little longer for perhaps some more feedback or anything until the new challenge is going to start ?

your call, I don't mind either way.

[Invention]

don't mind either way

[DevilHacker]

Hey guys,

do you mind if I move the supersexy threads into the archive forum ?
or would you like to have them hang around a little longer for perhaps some more feedback or anything until the new challenge is going to start ?

your call, I don't mind either way. I don’t think it would hurt to have them out a little longer…
I hope the new challenge will start up here soon (at which time they will need to be shifted), just waiting for the final word from Orik.

We might have to just pick on of his suggested topics if we dont hear from him soon...

[DevilHacker]

Ok guys, this is getting a little crazy… :deal:
No final word from Orik. I know he will be getting an internet connection soon, but we cant wait forever.

Everyone go ahead an place your final vote on the subject (along with specs) just incase we do not hear from Orik within the next few days.

[OriK]

Hi folks,
still no time but I agree the idea of devilhacker to vote for the next challenge. I'm currently not able to set up a new challenge. I hope that's ok. Sorry for the long waiting time.
I think you will find a challenging topic. Thanks for all.

[Auctane]

My vote

Sci-Fi Set: Make a small enclosed set.
Tri limit: 20,000
textures: 2048x1024 ea. color bump alpha
examples: the interrior of an alien or futuristic home, office, warehouse, space dock, bridge of a ship, control room, etc.

[Ghostscape]

My vote

Sci-Fi Set: Make a small enclosed set.
Tri limit: 20,000
textures: 2048x1024 ea. color bump alpha
examples: the interrior of an alien or futuristic home, office, warehouse, space dock, bridge of a ship, control room, etc.

/seconded :D

[SHEPEIRO]

yeah keeping it to a single room would be cool, not full interoir, just a high class single room

[luciferous]

mmmm sci fi room.... yes... yes and maybe just lil more... yes!

[SHEPEIRO]

well room can be toilet-great hall.

i fancy doing using all those polys to to a futuristic toilet complete with futuristic tagging (1024*2048 should be enough)

[DevilHacker]

so, small enclosed set it is?

We should have this challenge up and running my sunday

[obelisk]

i'm very into this! will definitely make a showing. it's been a while since i did.

we'll have to have a character contest next though. i want andy h to visit us again...

-O

[luciferous]

I Dig this aswell.... and come to think of it has Anyone seen Andy H for a while?

[DevilHacker]

Busy I guess...
:shrug:






Come to think of it… I have not seen a lot of the cgtalk regulars such as Leigh, Jackdeath, Neil, ect… around the forums in a while either.

[Auctane]

Since Orik is leaving the topic of the next challenge up to us, I am going to feel like a brat if you guys go with exactly what I tossed out there. If everyone is into a Sci-Fi room, I think we should brainstorm some additional guidelines. I personally think the title 'A Sci-Fi Room' could be spiced up a bit.

OT/random thinking/question for some vets: I was browsing around the web looking for materials to improve my skills, I ended up picking up a bunch of Gnomon DVD's. The price tag was serious which got me thinking 'Golly gee, it would be nice if could win this kind of stuff in a game art contest, maybe I will just have to see what I can do in one of those CG Challenges at CGtalk.' Then I came over here to see when the next CG Challenge was going to take place, and I ran across a section titled "Game Art Design Challenges". Any of you guys who have been here for a while know why there hasn't been one in a long time? Will there be an 'official' game art challenge again? Were there ever sponsors for it like there are for CG Challenges? Just curious.

[luciferous]

Busy I guess...
:shrug:




Come to think of it… I have not seen a lot of the cgtalk regulars such as Leigh, Jackdeath, Neil, ect… around the forums in a while either.

very true.. hmm a conspiracy maybe? or possibly busy whicvh is more realistic, hell im nowhere near as good as those guys and im almost too busy to come on here, so light knows what kinda swampage tackles those chaps every so often

[HellBoy]

somnambulance, I had the same thought a while back and as I remember devil told me its the same thing, like with or without the "official".
But yea it would be cool to have a real big challenge like CG Challenge

[DevilHacker]

Ok.. I see what everyone is saying about prizes.
The main reason so that we have not given out prizes so far is mostly because we are an monthly (or try to be) challenge where finding sponsorship every few weeks would be difficult, and also it was at once believed that we did not need them such we were such a small community.

But, In theory….
What does everyone think ample prizes would be?

Hardware?
-EG: Common items that will work across all systems (since we can’t pre-tell the specs/layout of the winners system ahead of time) like monitors, speakers, keyboards, ect…

Software?
-EG: A Training DVD (problem here is –A) amounts vary between DVDs, and –B) not everyone will want / need the same type of DVD), Videos Games related to the current challenge, movies, ect…

[DevilHacker]

For the record, here is what Orik suggested:
Ok, the toony stuff was just an idea. I think an entire filmset in one month could be too much, too. And a char after the vehicle contest would be a good change.
Here are some charideas. I'm not really familiar with them, so I write down what's in my mind. I hope its usable.
an aliens pet (e.g. a small cute kittything ^^ )
a heavy animal transporter (the animal is the transporter)
a humanized existing animal (like in planet of the apes)
the crazy professor (any style) not really imaginative ^^
a ghostbuster (not the "movie" ones)

Some character themes:
"small and cankered"
"hunter and hunted" - two chars again.

More suggestions are appreciated.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since Orik is leaving the topic of the next challenge up to us, I am going to feel like a brat if you guys go with exactly what I tossed out there. If everyone is into a Sci-Fi room, I think we should brainstorm some additional guidelines. I personally think the title 'A Sci-Fi Room' could be spiced up a bit.Ok, I hear what your saying… Also, is it now a room? I thought a few min’s ago, it was a set?

OT/random thinking/question for some vets: Then I came over here to see when the next CG Challenge was going to take place, and I ran across a section titled "Game Art Design Challenges". Any of you guys who have been here for a while know why there hasn't been one in a long time? Will there be an 'official' game art challenge again? Were there ever sponsors for it like there are for CG Challenges? Just curious.Official, Unofficial, it is just a name for the same challenge. Though, to my knowledge, there have never been any prizes for the challenges besides one where a cool T-Shirt was donated. I believe the website owner who was giving the prize away was from GeekFurry.com, and I don’t know what ever became of it (I think it was shipped straight to the winner?)

[Auctane]

Devil, you busted me, it was set. I was really just wondering about the challenge because it is archived in with the CG Challenges and not here. It occurred to me that for there to actually be something (here at CGTalk) on a level even remotely close to the CG Challenge, there would probably have to be a Ballistic book published on the challenge.

anyway, about the next challenge...

[luciferous]

My fingers are twitching at the prospect of being able to particpate for a hange.... *twitch*

[SHEPEIRO]

prizes-mmmm cool, me thinks everyone likes Tablets.
what about free membership to cgtalk for a year?
keep it small and companoies are more likely juts to go for it.

next contest, if you make it a set, then a room can be done

i vote 20k with 1024x2048 texture space (colour only) normals and spec really would add to the work load, and alot of game engines dont use them. it would be nice to see lots of hand painted textures (if you include normal mapps, everyone will be scared not too use them)

[luciferous]

I have no idea how to use normal maps yet, but id probably paint my textures and light anyways... as my dear mother would say... i was born to paint, hell i made a jackson polock of the theatre i was born in, lol

[Auctane]

Yeah, it would be nice if everyone were comfortable with them, but it seems like a lot of people dive into their high poly model before they have a plan for the low poly and don't finish. I think grayscale bump and spec maps should definitely be allowed, I think the overall final entries will look better.

I'm also antsy to get this one under way.

[HellBoy]

sims like room would be cool, or your own supermarket.

I also have idea of doing a building, completly the interior and exterior. e.g. a flat house with 3 floors. then do the rooms with beds, furniture etc. Imagine max payne the game the hotel building. Something similar.

20K Tris limit
5MB Texture Limit
256*px. MAX

[SHEPEIRO]

id say keep it to a single room and then its easier to finish, also means you can put a lot of love into it.

that could include a supermarket.

i like the idea of 5mb texture limit tough, thats roughly 50x256* maps, you could either have 50x colour (higher def, or if you were doing a very large detailed space) or 20x col, 15x bump, 15x spec ( if your space is smaller or if your style dictates)

would mean that if you didnt want to do spec and bump then the specs woudnt kinda force you into it.

[luciferous]

should good Shep,,, arewe going with a sci fi theme?

im glad ive nearly got the 'real' work outa the way so i can put quite alot of love into this

[Auctane]

As for myself, I would be a little more excited about the challenge if it had a epic theme. I want to make a place where a major part of the story is going to happen. Not that it would necessarily have to be an end boss room, but a turning point or something.

[SHEPEIRO]

i think maybe sci-fi/fantasy- keep it broard

[luciferous]

.. okay im getting giddy about starting this.. wehn do me think itll be up...?

[Ghostscape]

As for myself, I would be a little more excited about the challenge if it had a epic theme. I want to make a place where a major part of the story is going to happen. Not that it would necessarily have to be an end boss room, but a turning point or something.

I like the idea of "The Showdown" a location where the hero and villain clash for the final battle, or something along those lines.

[SHEPEIRO]

why dont you leave the theme pretty open, it will allow you to do yours and others who want to do broom cupboard of death theirs too.

dam given my idea away

[DevilHacker]

Hope everyone had an great forth of July weekend.

Sorry for my short absence, my main work PC (that had all my files, ect on) had its hard drive fail, so I am in the process of trying to recover the data… any data… But it does not look good. I do however have a laptop (though is has none of my CG, Web creation programs, or files on it) so, I will just have to start over from scratch, at least for the time being… *-ugh-

So, is this what it has come down to? (lets get this thing going)
Theme: “The Set”
Specs: 20k polys… What about texture? Can we come to a conscientious answer on that?

[Auctane]

Sucks about your computer man, I have a feeling if I dont nuke my system soon I will be facing the same thing.

How about 'The Sci-Fi Set' - we need something to keep it from being a judging nightmare, and making people upset over the judging. Devil, I say you make the call on the textures from what we already put out there. 5MB would be a different format that we have seen here before, but I think people will catch on quick and realize how important it is to optimize.

[luciferous]

I say go with the 5 mb limit that way its not a certai number of teture sheets but also how good you can compress the texture data...

20k polys is fantastic and i think leaving it at the Set may work.. it would certsinaly mean whole bevvy of different ideas instead of a sci fi theme which wouldl ead to countless labs and spaceship cockpits.... if we want a more specific theme some like sci fi/ fantasy might work... cos that has alot of room for maneuring and genre cross overs

[HellBoy]

I would vote to leave the genre open(depends on the artist), maybe call it as said "The set", that way people like me who aren't a sci-fi fans will be able to participate :D

[Invention]

im open to any genre. i hope it will start soon because i'm excited to start :twisted:

[Ghostscape]

I'm up for any genre.

The 5MB idea has me confused because I was under the impression that everything is uncompressed on the card, which means that a 512x512 RGBA is always going to take up one meg, and that leads me to believe that we'd be awfully short on texture memory compared to the polygon budget.

I would think it would be more reasonable to do something like "you get 4096x4096 worth of texture space, broken up however you want" so people could use 16 1024x1024s, 64 512x512s, whatever, and have that space be shared between normals, specular, etc, so that if you wanted to have normal, specular, glow, and diffuse on every texture, you'd wind up with only 4 1024x1024s worth of texture space, etc.

I know 4096x4096 sounds like a lot, but I think it's a reasonable amount to use to create a set with. It's about half of the available texture memory on most videocards today (64 megs of uncompressed texture memory assuming RGBA) but I think it sounds like a reasonable target to aim for.

[SHEPEIRO]

Ghostscape- your gonna have to learn about using palleted textures, i created an entire DS level with 476kbs in the challenge befor last!


also the DDS format may be very usefull for this challenge

still 5 mbs might be tight, maybe 10mbs would be better.

but 4096 texture space is far too much aswell. id say 10 megs is 10 512*s(uncompressed) which would be fine in my book

[Auctane]

Messing with file formats lastnight: You canget 4 2048X2048 RGB GIF's with 64 colors out of 5MB. I dont know much about DDS, so I tried real quick last night to compress into the DDS format and it was 2X what I got out of a GIF... I dont even know if i can load DDS textures into my software... Regardless, I am ready to get this one started.

[Ghostscape]

Ghostscape- your gonna have to learn about using palleted textures, i created an entire DS level with 476kbs in the challenge befor last!


also the DDS format may be very usefull for this challenge

still 5 mbs might be tight, maybe 10mbs would be better.

but 4096 texture space is far too much aswell. id say 10 megs is 10 512*s(uncompressed) which would be fine in my book

Yeah but I was thinking of something more along the lines of next gen as opposed to handheld. Personally, it would benefit my portfolio more than something with lower specs. But I'll be competing regardless.

[SHEPEIRO]

well even next gen use palleted textures if they can, for example if you have a simple trim pattern for a wall, that can be acheived in 64 colours then use that, the extra 1000s of colour wont really be a noticable difference for the mem cost.

DDS format is a DirectX format, so MAX displays them fine, not sure about Maya, but its a NExt gen format for sure.

were going for a room or set, 10x 512* would be fine for even next-gen.

also the more texures to make the less liky people are gonna finish.

[Auctane]

So when is this going to start?

[HellBoy]

I am at work and I am bored so I was day dreaming and stuff, I just came to think about this:

what if there were a big, huge annual game art competion, since everyone is interested on the prices, what if there's where one that had a sponser. So to try the success of it, CGTalk could sponser the first annual one. the winner gets a 3-6 months or so of free membership or a award.

speaking of cg awards, wouldn't it be nice to have a game art award gallery forum?

[luciferous]

those hellboy are both fab ideas... hmm... yes those would be grand editions to stuff

[Auctane]

Nice ideas Hellboy.

Am I the only one anxious to get this one going? I am thinking if its delayed much longer I may have to pass it up.

[Ghostscape]

Nice ideas Hellboy.

Am I the only one anxious to get this one going? I am thinking if its delayed much longer I may have to pass it up.

Yeah I've been waiting for a while too.

Finalize some specs and lets start it up :D

[Auctane]

Interrior environment set (genre open)
20,000 tris
10MB in textures

Does that work?

[luciferous]

Im almost tearingm y hair out wanting to start

i have my idea just waiting for the get go...

wonder how devilhackers getting along with his busted rig...

[SHEPEIRO]

right ill pm devilhacker he knows ho0w to get it going

[Auctane]

humm, I PM'd him yesterday too...

When I finish my current project hopefully sometime this morning, if it would help I could lend a hand at setting this one up.

are the specs ok at:
20,000 tris
10 MB of textures?

[SHEPEIRO]

sounds like a good set of rules

keeping the genre open, is cool, but what about a title

ie "the lair", can be twisted into almost anything (garage for mean car, teenagers bedroom, hitmans appartment etc)

[Auctane]

from what I have been noticing, judges seem to take the title literally. So if that is the direction we are going - the lair is good, but how about: 'Head Quarters' or 'Masters Quarters' because robots don't really have lairs.:D I was thinking of doing a transportation station or a war room of some type, but neither of those would classify.

So it could be something like: UGAC - HQ Interior Set - your name

[Ghostscape]

The lair is cool. I also liked the idea of "the showdown" where some sort of confrontation happens. The Lair works :D

[Auctane]

Anyone have any objections to 'Master Chamber - Interior Set'?

[luciferous]

master chamber is good. can be interpretted many ways... go for it

[Ghostscape]

Master Chamber sounds like a bedroom to me :D

Where the hell is Orik? Having neither him nor DH here makes it a bit hard to start.

[Auctane]

Hahah, it does sound kind of like a bedroom. Ghostscape, I really like your idea of the Showdown and thought Master Chamber would incorporate it. I guess I had the Chamber of Fate (Fable) in mind though. Devil hacker said from the start that Orik bailed (I guess they were PM'ing each other?)... and DH is MIA. Do you think we should wait? Either way, we need to get it settled.

[luciferous]

I reckon we could whip up a temproy starting post for it, we seem to have the details nailed down pretty hard

[Ghostscape]

I just PMed DH, he's posting in other forums but ignoring this one, most likely out of spite :D

[Auctane]

:blush:

I hope you guys don't feel like I was stepping over my boundaries by pushing this forward. I just have to get started ASAP on a piece for my portfolio and would like for it to be part of this challenge as well.

[Ghostscape]

No I'm in the exact same boat as you. I searched for DH to see how long he'd been gone and then realized he was posting elsewhere. If he doesn't start this up soon though I'm all for you starting it up :D

[Auctane]

Yeah, DH better turn up quick... I dont know that I really want to set it up and go through all that. I will if he doesnt turn up soon though. ... see if i can email him or something.

[SHEPEIRO]

id make the post yourself if you have time. if a mosd wants to change it later so be it, but its just wasteed space at mo

[DevilHacker]

Will be up this afternoon.

I am running full schedule, working on three different projects, getting only about 3 hours of sleep an night…. Feeling a little stretched.


---------------------------------------------------
I just PMed DH, he's posting in other forums but ignoring this one, most likely out of spite :DHaha. Na, just really busy. Most of them are fast replys i am posting from my N-Gage :D

[luciferous]

just remember DH.. we love you really *hairy man glomp*

[DevilHacker]

just remember DH.. we love you really *hairy man glomp* Haha. Ok.
Sorry for the delay. My life is hell right now…

Here is the link. If yall want to glance over it, and add anything/ see a mistake, post it here, and I will fix it before the front page plug gets posted.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3707010#post3707010 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=3707010#post3707010)

[Auctane]

Looked over it real quick, the end date seems to be copied from the last challenge (june 9).

No 'Master Chamber' its 'The Interrior' now?

[DevilHacker]

Looked over it real quick, the end date seems to be copied from the last challenge (june 9).Ok. Thanks for that.
Fixed.

No 'Master Chamber' its 'The Interrior' now?
I will go and change it right now. I dont know how I over looked it.
:thumbsup: :D

Did yall come to an agreement on what type of textures will be allowed (eg: bump normal, ect... ?)

[Auctane]

I dont think normal maps were going to be allowed... I have to do them though, just wont include them in my submission if they are not allowed. I think the textures should be toatlly open.

[Ghostscape]

I think any types of maps should be allowed, but you only get 10megs total, so that if someone wants to use bumps, spec+color, diffuse, opacity, glow, etc all on one material, they are limiting the amount of space they have for other textures.

[Auctane]

Yeah, with 10mb we really arent limited. I think we should allow all texture types and let people focus on overall design and lighting.

[DevilHacker]

Hey Guys.
Let’s make it 10Mbs before Compression.
That way everyone is on the same playing field without having to search for plug-in’s..

Does that sound good? Anything else to change before the posts get stickied up, and a front page plug is posted?

[Auctane]

Not really a big deal, but this part:


'
YOUR MODEL MUST fit within “Master Chamber”s’ challenge mechanics:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONLY model the interior space. We do not want to see the rest of a large vehicle, house or environment that the interior space belongs to...This Challenge Is Only About An Specific (read: ONE) Interior Space. Sketches or a description of what, and how and what the interior space belongs to will be enough.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
'

doesnt really apply to environments. Maybe state what texturing options are allowed.
Other than that it looks good to me.

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