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jeremybirn
05-13-2006, 03:31 AM
This is an old challenge now, this thread is archived. If you scroll down to the Challenge #4 section of the downloads page, you'll see that the models can still be downloaded for your tests, and also that a gallery has been made of top entries. Feel free to browse this thread to see what others have posted, even though you can no longer post here. Models are available for download here:

http://www.3drender.com/challenges/

The challenge is just to download the files and show how well you can light and render the scene. You can use any software you want. It can be any location, lighting situation, time, mood, or style of image.



Most of the objects in the .obj file will need some subdivision (polygon smoothing) before you render. All shading and rendering techniques are fine. The rules are to have fun, make a cool rendering, and share how you did it afterwards. (If you want more detailed rules, see this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=319005) .) Here's a screenshot of the scene:
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/bottlecollection/Screenshot.jpg
Those bottles need your shaders and lights - can you help them?

-jeremy

SoLiTuDe
05-13-2006, 05:44 AM
WEEEEEEEEE!!! *pretends to get started
Sounds like fun! --gonna get started right after I play some games :) ..at least I'm honest

Edit: This is an outdoor scene then, right?

sapienz
05-13-2006, 01:17 PM
I never knew there was lighting challenges in here...
I'll have a go at it and see how far i can go

LukaStellwag
05-13-2006, 01:35 PM
Thanks Jeremy, I will give it a try :)

jeremybirn
05-13-2006, 02:08 PM
Edit: This is an outdoor scene then, right?

That probably depends how you render it. If there's sunlight streaming in through the windows and bottles, or an outdoor view through the windows, then the bottles are indoors. If the view through the window looks into a building, or you can't see through the windows but the reflections are of an outdoor environment, then the bottles would be outdoors. I doubt everyone will agree on this, anyway.

-jeremy

lazzhar
05-13-2006, 03:06 PM
I never knew there was lighting challenges in here...
I'll have a go at it and see how far i can go

Maybe if previous challenges were plugged in front page that would attract more people !

jeremybirn
05-13-2006, 05:05 PM
Maybe if previous challenges were plugged in front page that would attract more people !
Let's make that a goal for this one: if a lot of people post some terrific renders of the bottles, this thread could easily become front page material. I know I can count on you, Lazzhar, you've made great images for all the challenges so far. I'm going to do some renders with the scene myself; I haven't decided what yet but I'll be a participant some time this week.

-jeremy

sapienz
05-13-2006, 05:35 PM
I'm struggling with the refractions of the bottles rather than the setup of lighs...

meanlebh
05-13-2006, 07:53 PM
sapienz...here is a list of some index refractions

Alcohol - 1.329
Crystal - 2.00
Emerald - 1.576
Glass - 1.51714
Glass, Albite - 1.4890
Glass, Crown -1.520
Glass, Crown, Zinc - 1.517
Glass, Flint, Dense - 1.66
Glass, Flint, Heaviest - 1.89
Glass, Flint, Heavy - 1.65548
Glass, Flint, Lanthanum - 1.80
Glass, Flint, Light - 1.58038
Glass, Flint, Medium - 1.62725
Ice - 1.309
Mercury - 1.62
Plastic - 1.460
Ruby - 1.760
Water (gas) - 1.000261
Water 100'C - 1.31819
Water 20'C - 1.33335
Water 35'C (Room temp) - 1.33157

I just copied it from a tutorial by leigh over in the texturing forums....if you want to look over the entire tutorial, it goes over quite a bit of transparencies and refractions, you can find it here. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74444) I hope that that may help give you some direction to head in....

Good luck with your scene.

-Brian

jeremybirn
05-13-2006, 09:17 PM
I'm struggling with the refractions of the bottles rather than the setup of lighs...
Also make sure you have enough trace depth! The number of refraction steps (in the shader, and in your render settings) needs to be at least 6 or 8 in a scene like this. It defaults to just 1 or 2 in most software, so fix it in the shader and render settings. For shadows, also check the number of steps or rays in the light, to make sure you can see the shadows through the refractive glass.

-jeremy

slatr
05-13-2006, 09:43 PM
I want to try a nighttime scene. I have lots to do, but still but wanted to play with lighting. I have been experimenting for a few hours now. Here is a test.



http://i3.tinypic.com/zlrtyg.jpg


Next up I need to finish isolating and surfacing all the bottles. The isolation will take a bit of time since the bottles have thickness for the refraction.

meanlebh
05-13-2006, 11:09 PM
Got a chance to spend a couple of hours on this today but unfortunately this is probably all that I am going to get done for the weekend, so I figured that I would post where I am at so far and see what sorts of comments people have on it....please feel free to critique away...it is far from finished, but a place to start at least....thanks again!

-Brian

tedious
05-14-2006, 12:33 AM
Of course there's a Klein Bottle in the scene! Mr. Birn would have us all doing refraction through a physically impossible 1-sided surface!

Brian - Nice start, man! If there's a biggie issue to work on it's adding definition so you can see the forms of the transparent bottles where they all overlap near the center. luv how the different bottles are getting different materials.

I'm going to give this one a try! I just got Mr. Birn's new book in the mail, too, it seems like an ideal time to refresh everything I'm doing with lighting techniques.

tedious

slatr
05-14-2006, 04:52 AM
http://i2.tinypic.com/zmjp15.jpg

More experimentation. I have isolated the bottles as a group. I am trying to decide what I want to do with them.

My lighting has a blue cast to it, but I believe my background image is too saturated.

I need to try some colored glass on some of the bottles and deal with the background image.

Please comment or critique, I am learning.

Thanks,

Slatr

meanlebh
05-14-2006, 04:54 AM
Alright, so I lied...I pulled myself back to the computer for a few more hours and made a few changes...I'm out of town tomorrow though and then it is back to work on monday, so I am not quite sure when I am going to get some more time to work on it, but I would love some feedback/suggestions for when I do some get more time, if people are willing...

Looking forward to seeing other entries in the next few days!

Thanks again.

-Brian

slatr
05-14-2006, 04:58 AM
Alright, so I lied...I pulled myself back to the computer for a few more hours and made a few changes...I'm out of town tomorrow though and then it is back to work on monday, so I am not quite sure when I am going to get some more time to work on it, but I would love some feedback/suggestions for when I do some get more time, if people are willing...

Looking forward to seeing other entries in the next few days!

Thanks again.

-Brian


Brian, I like the colored glass you have set up. What renderer are you using?

I played around with the ray recursion limit and it seems if I drop it down to 6-8 the glass gets very dark. The last post it was set at 16 and my computer was crying on that render.

What limit or value do you use?

Thanks,
Slatr

meanlebh
05-14-2006, 05:37 AM
Brian, I like the colored glass you have set up. What renderer are you using?

I played around with the ray recursion limit and it seems if I drop it down to 6-8 the glass gets very dark. The last post it was set at 16 and my computer was crying on that render.

What limit or value do you use?

Thanks,
Slatr

I am using xsi with mental ray as the renderer...I am not looking at my scene right now, but I believe that I have the ray depth set at 12....I don't believe that it is getting through quite all of the glass, but it is pretty close. I think that to be able to get through all of the glass you are going to need a higher setting than 6 or 8, but maybe not quite as high as 16....The render times actually aren't really all that bad right now (I think it took about 5 min to render my image...) , but my lighting set up is pretty simple still...just a few detail shadowmapped spotlights and a point light without shadows, no GI or caustics.

Anyways, good luck with your scene, looking forward to seeing your progress.

Thanks for the comments as well.

-Brian

jeremybirn
05-14-2006, 10:40 PM
That looks like a good start. I like how you have some etching on one of the bottles.

I don't know if the background is too saturated; maybe the background's fine and the lights motivated by it just need to be more blue. Maybe the lights coming through the window could be a focused moonlight that casts relatively crisp shadows, plus a blue sky fill that's much softer. Then you'd just need some fill/bounce from the inside and some reflections of the room onto the bottles. The window trim looks like it's getting a flat ambient light or constant shader of some kind, some shading there would help.

It helps to keep the same shader on all the bottles until you are happy with it, before you clone it around and add variety. That way you can work on issues like making the bottles cast shadows, etc. all at once, and only adjust separated shaders for fine-tuning.

-jeremy

http://i2.tinypic.com/zmjp15.jpg

More experimentation. I have isolated the bottles as a group. I am trying to decide what I want to do with them.

My lighting has a blue cast to it, but I believe my background image is too saturated.

I need to try some colored glass on some of the bottles and deal with the background image.

Please comment or critique, I am learning.

Thanks,

Slatr

jeremybirn
05-14-2006, 10:44 PM
Alright, so I lied...I pulled myself back to the computer for a few more hours and made a few changes...I'm out of town tomorrow though and then it is back to work on monday, so I am not quite sure when I am going to get some more time to work on it, but I would love some feedback/suggestions for when I do some get more time, if people are willing...

Looking forward to seeing other entries in the next few days!

Thanks again.

-Brian

Those bottles are looking good!

There's a need for some sky/fill light coming through that window. It looks now almost as if all the light is coming through the window from the same angle, when really it looks bright outside and you'd expect soft illumination spilling in from the whole rest of the sky, not just the sun.

I think some of the raytraced shadows need a greater ray depth. RIght now the trim along the lower base of the window is brighter in a few areas where you see it thorugh the bottles than where you see between or around them, making me think there's a shadowing bounce light that needs its shadows to be visible through more layers of refraction.

Looking forwards to more!

-jeremy

Ergi
05-15-2006, 06:19 AM
Microphone check one,...

Hey guys heres my first test. Im sure all of you with the mental rays and vrays and brasils are going to kick my glasses ass but here goes Maya Software. Im planning to test this with Renderman for Maya too. What a tedious assignment though : )

link to 2k render

http://dirtylenses.com/Images/Bottles1.jpg

cheers

jeremybirn
05-15-2006, 06:49 AM
Microphone check one,...

Hey guys heres my first test. Im sure all of you with the mental rays and vrays and brasils are going to kick my glasses ass but here goes Maya Software. Im planning to test this with Renderman for Maya too. What a tedious assignment though : )

link to 2k render

http://dirtylenses.com/Images/Bottles1.jpg

cheers

The glass (of the glass bottles) is looking good! The window glass needs work, that "crackle" texture isn't very convincing, it's very regular, and then it melds with the twigs of the tree you see through it and looks confusingly like a reflection of the tree outside in places. Speaking of "outside" the tree seems to come through the window a bit on the left. Then the metal parts of the window, that should be opaque, have a blurred shadow of the tree on them. It looks like maybe that was a compositing error, maybe putting a glow around the sky that bled over onto the metal, but still it looks strange.

Apart from the strangenesses of your test, it is looking good. Maybe some of the glass bottles could be going too dark, for bottles sitting right by a window like that, but the bump mapping is working on them. Why do you think the reflection of the 3rd from right bottle looks so bright and clear in the bottle behind it, when the bottle itself is so dark? Is it a shadow with too low a ray depth limit maybe? Or the shader needs more light absorbance?

(I've just been playing with some of those Maya raytracing parameters for glass. Funky stuff! Like the way any non-zero "surface thickness" cancels out the "light absorbance," but light absorbance is mostly only seen in reflections and refractions of the bottles, not the bottles themselves...)

-jeremy

slatr
05-15-2006, 03:33 PM
I am not certain my refraction is working.

The tutorial I read said (in lightwave) to copy and paste the geometry, flip it, and then assign the flip the air refractin value. The first set of geometry would have the 1.52 value.

I will go back tonight and try to isolate this before I work on the items Jeremy said to look at.

jeremybirn
05-15-2006, 03:46 PM
I am not certain my refraction is working.

The tutorial I read said (in lightwave) to copy and paste the geometry, flip it, and then assign the flip the air refractin value. The first set of geometry would have the 1.52 value.

I will go back tonight and try to isolate this before I work on the items Jeremy said to look at.
The bottles are already fully modeled in terms of having an inside and an outside, so no additional copies should be necessary. Just render them with some subdivision or polygon smoothing, as double-sided surfaces (if there's a choice to turn off back-face culling and render front and back, although that might happen automatically for transparent objects.) 1.52 is a little high for glass, I see some refraction but not that much in your render, maybe because you did something else to counter-act it. You don't need to worry about doing anything for the refraction level of air. A single IOR value should be used on the surface, and the entrance and exit refraction angles should will be computed by the raytracer as long as the bottles are rendered as double-sided surfaces. (Yes, even the Klein Bottle. ;) )

-jeremy

slatr
05-15-2006, 03:50 PM
Thanks Jeremy, I will go back to the original file, isolate the bottles, and make them double sided.

As far as the etching, I appreciate the comments. However, that was an accident if it wasn't in the original geometry.
:)

EDIT: Here is that site I was checking out http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/LWGlass/LWGlass-1.html

meanlebh
05-15-2006, 04:23 PM
Thanks for the comments and suggestions Jeremy. I definitely agree with your comments and will be hopefully getting a chance to work on it a little bit more this coming weekend or maybe in my evenings at work....Thanks again!

-Brian

MasterZap
05-15-2006, 07:14 PM
Some simple test....
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f366/MasterZap/zap-bottles-2.jpg

/Z

Ergi
05-15-2006, 07:44 PM
The glass (of the glass bottles) is looking good! The window glass needs work, that "crackle" texture isn't very convincing, it's very regular, and then it melds with the twigs of the tree you see through it and looks confusingly like a reflection of the tree outside in places. Speaking of "outside" the tree seems to come through the window a bit on the left. Then the metal parts of the window, that should be opaque, have a blurred shadow of the tree on them. It looks like maybe that was a compositing error, maybe putting a glow around the sky that bled over onto the metal, but still it looks strange.

Apart from the strangenesses of your test, it is looking good. Maybe some of the glass bottles could be going too dark, for bottles sitting right by a window like that, but the bump mapping is working on them. Why do you think the reflection of the 3rd from right bottle looks so bright and clear in the bottle behind it, when the bottle itself is so dark? Is it a shadow with too low a ray depth limit maybe? Or the shader needs more light absorbance?

(I've just been playing with some of those Maya raytracing parameters for glass. Funky stuff! Like the way any non-zero "surface thickness" cancels out the "light absorbance," but light absorbance is mostly only seen in reflections and refractions of the bottles, not the bottles themselves...)

-jeremy


Jeremy,..at the moment all my shadows are simple 512x512 dmap shads. That accounts for a lot : ) Also the reflection coming from inside the room is a plane that leaves black space on the sides to be reflected.

I initially wanted to use rman for Maya and deep shadows to test the eval version, but the watermark was a bit of a pain. So i thought i might "fake" the whole thing. Like project fake caustics from a top light and so on.
A few of my lights also have gobos on them so thats what creates the light variation on the window ledge and the shadowing on the window frame (which right now is only a default blinn).
As far as the Maya raytracing parameters,.. theres indeed funky stuff going on. A slight difference in shape from bottle to bottle produces totally different results. I have yet to play with light absorbance.

I will post some screenshots. Even with dmap shads there is at least one bottle that sort of works already : the first one on the left and right. I am still getting dark edges on it, but i kinda like where its going.

Some screenshots

and links to full res

http://dirtylenses.com/Images/Screegrab1.jpg
http://dirtylenses.com/Images/Screegrab2.jpg
http://dirtylenses.com/Images/Screegrab3.jpg

sjmcc
05-15-2006, 11:32 PM
Okay here's my first attempt at this one. I just grouped the bottles together and threw a glass material on them to test the light setup. I'll definitley put some more work into this.

http://www.allcinema4me.com/cinema/lighting/Onea.jpg

jeremybirn
05-16-2006, 01:19 AM
sjmcc -

Thanks for inviting other people from the C4D Cafe. Your image looks a little too early to say much, just because I can't tell if it'll be indoor or outdoor lighting or what kind of setting you're going for, and it doesn't have much in the way of backgrounds or reflections yet. If the bottles are going to stay that green, then the shadows where light has filtered through them should be going green as well.

-jeremy

herbertagudera
05-16-2006, 02:12 AM
whoaw..master zap..very nice image you got there.

okay, heres my first take on the challenge. so far the shader works on some of the bottles. i only used one shader for all of them. when i come back tomorrow,hopefully i could texture each one of them right.
the lighting i think needs more tweaking. i used maya software render for this image. its a club scene.

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v01.png

itsallgoode9
05-16-2006, 09:19 AM
Also make sure you have enough trace depth! The number of refraction steps (in the shader, and in your render settings) needs to be at least 6 or 8 in a scene like this. It defaults to just 1 or 2 in most software, so fix it in the shader and render settings. For shadows, also check the number of steps or rays in the light, to make sure you can see the shadows through the refractive glass.

-jeremy

also, (in maya) I had to manually turn on "visible in refractions" and "visible in reflections" in the render stats tab of each bottle....so I'm not sure if that was just the way my settings default to for some odd reason or if this is is turned off in the downloaded scene.

vijaybundela
05-16-2006, 09:38 AM
thanks jermy for one more nice challenge, i m going to start work on this n try to put some good woks.

sapienz
05-17-2006, 04:35 AM
I'm still having some problems with the glass material. I'm still not good with refraction setup. Gettin kinda fedup when i see something i don't like after a 10 - 20mins render.
I'm gonna treat the bottles as opaque to check out their interaction with the environmental lighting for the time being.

Heres my trial run...
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/sapienz/MyWork/lightingChallenge04ver01a.jpg

itsallgoode9
05-17-2006, 10:22 AM
I'm still having some problems with the glass material. I'm still not good with refraction setup. Gettin kinda fedup when i see something i don't like after a 10 - 20mins render...



I like your comp and your lighting so far! You said you are using scanline Max render which is taking 10-20 minutes.....I'm guessing from your times, that you are using advanced lighting w/ light tracer or radiosity with that? If that's the case, have you tried Mental Ray? (I just recently switched over to Max from Maya about 8 months ago) so i'm not an expert by any stretch of the immagination, but from my rendering experiences in Max, a scene with opaque surfaces, such as yours has now, is quite a bit faster using MR rather than the scanline render. So if that's the case, you might look into trying Mental Ray......and if you don't know MR, it will take a couple days of frustration to learn, but in the end I think you'll be happy that you struggled through it!

-Birn, not 100% sure how these challenges work so if you are supposed to be the one/main guy giving the crits/suggestions just tell me and I'll shutup haha. I'm working on one too, so it'll be in here soon hopefully!

sapienz
05-17-2006, 11:35 AM
I tried using a dome light setup for the scene along with some lights at certain key positions to ensure the contrast in the scene.
I didn't use Mental Ray, LightTracer or Radiosity but I did turn on the raytrace global antialiaser and added a blur offset for nicer reflection... so that will acount for the longer rendering
Come to think of it, i shld have turned those off while i was still making admenments to the scene...
Silly me

jeremybirn
05-17-2006, 02:07 PM
Max - Good start. I agree with Justin that you could try using MR if you got a free license of it with Max, you ought to be able to find some software solutions that lets you develop the look of reflective, refractive glass bottles.

I appreciate everyone who posts feedback, it's not my job to monopolize that. I'm setting up a scene myself, that should render tonight and I'll post a version tomorrow hopefully.

-jeremy

slatr
05-17-2006, 03:16 PM
Ok, I have learned alot about surface and part selection and object format conversion recently.

To summarize, Lightwave 7.5d does not read in obj with the surfaces/parts separated properly. I found that opening in Messiah first then saving as a LWO object is part of the solution.

If I do this first, then all the different items are visible for individual surfacing. However.. and this is something I am still testing.. if we have to copy and flip to set up exit refraction for air then that will still need to be done.

Jeremy gave us physically correct objects. However, based on the reading I have done, Lightwave does not "know" to bend the light ray again when it exits the glass.

I will be glad to post the Messiah "converted" version for anyone that has Lightwave.

ALSO, we can use the stats panel to manually select the parts/bottles to subpatch ect..

Let me know if I need to post for anyone.

Brian

elvis75k
05-17-2006, 07:48 PM
HI Jeremy - can't wait to see your results !
i'm working on the scene just to get some experience with caustics..
On my first test i'm getting weird caustics behaviour with filled bottles
(filled by me) so i need time to tweak on.
I'll post something tomorrow -

-e

jeremybirn
05-17-2006, 09:14 PM
whoaw..master zap..very nice image you got there.

okay, heres my first take on the challenge. so far the shader works on some of the bottles. i only used one shader for all of them. when i come back tomorrow,hopefully i could texture each one of them right.
the lighting i think needs more tweaking. i used maya software render for this image. its a club scene.

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v01.png

Nice, you definately got that "club" feel. The red and blue light is working. You might even be able to stick with the bottles all having the same shader. The panel of light from underneath could be more convincing, though. I'd like to see more of a gradient from the white surface running up the window trim, from bright right above the white panel fading to dark a foot or so above. Most of the window trim could probably go darker, when you are away from the light. The glass bottles could also use some white near the base - maybe from a rectangular volume light scaled to include just the lower parts of the bottles, with ambient or other illumination in a gradient, and also white reflecting on the glass.

-jeremy

slatr
05-18-2006, 01:24 AM
Here is an updated image. I still need to go back and subdivide some of the bottles and work on the window frame surfacing. Also, more refraction testing is needed. Comments and suggestions always welcome.

http://i4.tinypic.com/zy7urp.jpg

Hamburger
05-18-2006, 03:43 AM
slatr, that background is a bit too blurry, for me it doesn't look right for it to have a depth of field effect on it.

It's a very good texture that you've chosen though. A nice soft blue light going through the window and casting soft shadows would really look good I think. Good job.

herbertagudera
05-18-2006, 03:56 AM
Nice, you definately got that "club" feel. The red and blue light is working. You might even be able to stick with the bottles all having the same shader. The panel of light from underneath could be more convincing, though. I'd like to see more of a gradient from the white surface running up the window trim, from bright right above the white panel fading to dark a foot or so above. Most of the window trim could probably go darker, when you are away from the light. The glass bottles could also use some white near the base - maybe from a rectangular volume light scaled to include just the lower parts of the bottles, with ambient or other illumination in a gradient, and also white reflecting on the glass.

-jeremy

thanks jeremy. okay heres an update. i made the window trim to a chrome. i dont know how (or if it is really do-able) to blur the reflection in maya alone. comments are very much welcome.thanks!

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v02.png

Hamburger
05-18-2006, 03:57 AM
Here's mine...heheh I couldn't resist doing a Sin City style!

http://kiernanmay.net/images/cgchallenge/sincitybottle.jpg

I've been working on a proper scene, so I'll post that one later. :D

jeremybirn
05-18-2006, 05:53 AM
Here's mine...heheh I couldn't resist doing a Sin City style!

http://kiernanmay.net/images/cgchallenge/sincitybottle.jpg

I've been working on a proper scene, so I'll post that one later. :D

Ha! Ha! That rocks! That one's going into the gallery.

Looking forwards to seeing your other entries.

-jeremy

herbertagudera
05-18-2006, 07:04 AM
hamburgertrain, that is so cool man..looking forward for your next image man..

okay, i made some few fixes..i rendered a few versions too..

version 03 (http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v03.png)
version 03-a (http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v03_a.png)

i kinda like this version. comments are very much welcome and appreciated.

version 03-b

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_ha_v03_b.png

Scrat-D
05-18-2006, 07:57 AM
Ok here's my point of view of lighting that bottles... First test render with Max's Mental Ray and a Skylight, I will add a spot light to simulate sun and then the glass material of the bottles which I want to leave last cause it takes a lot of time to render.. :) Any c&c welcome! Excuse my English

sapienz
05-18-2006, 08:47 AM
IpiotisDinos> I think you might want to adjust your exterior image to fit the perspective of the room. Seems like your horizon line abit too high now.

Greens are pretty to have but too much of them would tend to block light entering the room. If your idea is to have light pouring into the room from the window, this background image might not be such a good choice.

Scrat-D
05-18-2006, 11:55 AM
Well at the moment I am having trouble setting up the lights. I am working with a skylight and a spot light (all MR) and it gives error in mental ray (no emission after emitting 1000000 photons.. or something like that) and I am trying to solve this out.. any suggestions or ideas?

elvis75k
05-18-2006, 01:31 PM
Hello - some tests.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5370/bott026sc.jpg
caustics: on

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3109/bott014ev.jpg
caustics: on

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg
caustics off (shadow color)

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9813/04bott6mg.jpg
caustics off

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7163/02bott9jv.jpg
caustics off

I don't want to play with caustics no more! so i fake them..
I'm happy at this point with glass and "caustics" -
i need to give some changes with color and fuel.. :)
Then i can work on the set - this may be a room, and you can see outside in the dark..
and there's a lamplight in the room (for me the outside is the part with no floor) =
cold light from the outside (blue) and warm from the lamp (yellow).
the environment could be any hdri so the bottles can reflect in a more realistic way, but i haven't figured out yet what one can see thru the window.. Help!

(i may change my mind becouse i can't find anywhere a ledge inside the room) hmm..

-e

slatr
05-18-2006, 02:01 PM
slatr, that background is a bit too blurry, for me it doesn't look right for it to have a depth of field effect on it.

It's a very good texture that you've chosen though. A nice soft blue light going through the window and casting soft shadows would really look good I think. Good job.


Thanks Hamburger, I believe I can change the background out.

Shadows may be more of an issue. I seem to be having trouble getting transparent objects to cast them properly.

Maybe a composite, IE render the bottles solid and composite the shadows in. I can't think of the name for that right now. I want to call it a shadow mask. :)

slatr
05-18-2006, 02:11 PM
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg)http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg)
caustics off (shadow color)
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg) (http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg)
(http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg)
Elvis, I really like the liquid you added. It appears caustics are still on. How did you do that?

elvis75k
05-18-2006, 03:40 PM
I'm using a ramp shadow with noise in the shadow color for every transparent object.
The liquid itself is less tranparent than the container and the transparency also have a decay..
mixing things one can get the wanted caustics fx.
The whole shadow (with the caustic) fall on the ledge that is reflective with blur
and since this is not animation you can see some bright color randomness just like you see
in the caustic.. I'm doin' some real test with real bottles and a flashlight here at home..
and the shadow (caustic inc.) are not colored at all!!
The color shall appear only if you put the light near the bottle..
but the caustic is always there .. no matter how far is the light.. he he

here i have two images:
the first had a common issue due to the shadow depth ..down the bottle there is no shadow and it's burning..

next i have some soft shadow mistakes... very fun

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9330/05bott2wv.jpg

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3083/06bott5ju.jpg
ps.. i have to smooth all this poly bottles

Hope it's readable and clear --

-e

slatr
05-18-2006, 03:49 PM
The first image is gorgeous. How do you define as a mistake?


next i have some soft shadow mistakes... very fun

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9330/05bott2wv.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9330/05bott2wv.jpg)

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3083/06bott5ju.jpg (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3083/06bott5ju.jpg)
ps.. i have to smooth all this poly bottles

Hope it's readable and clear --

lazzhar
05-18-2006, 04:10 PM
Nice works guys.
Elvis, your tests rock !!
I now it's a contest, but I'm giving myself the right to ask you, are you using any special shader or it's the maya's ones?
Good luck everyone.

elvis75k
05-18-2006, 04:31 PM
For the shadows of the bottles i'm using puppet's p_shadow_transp,
and for the glass the l_glass_beta2.. I've done a test with
dialectric and phong but i'm not happy with..

-e

lazzhar
05-18-2006, 05:21 PM
A magic substance illuminating the scene.
Early test of the lighting. Not sure if I'm decided to make the window made of glass or not.
http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7937/scheme017iv.jpg

jorust
05-18-2006, 08:36 PM
Edit: Still no caustic but the overall look is ok... :shrug:

http://homepage.mac.com/janoverust/.Pictures/CGTalk/bottles_02.jpg

sesim
05-18-2006, 10:06 PM
hmmm!!! im in:) will post some progress later:)


hmm how much can i change of the scene? can i add own stuff to it? and change window etc? aslong the bottles and stuff are there?

sjmcc
05-19-2006, 12:10 AM
Okay I wanted to try and light this in the outdoors. To be honest I'm a little stumped on where to go with it and how to improve it, but here's what I have so far.

http://www.allcinema4me.com/cinema/lighting/AreaFill.jpg

herbertagudera
05-19-2006, 12:47 AM
elvis, cool images, i like the bottle with liquid in it. and the shadows are amazing.

lazzhar, nice. kinda like the bottle used in LOTR..very nice..looking forward for the update.

polymess, great shader..especially the one on the foreground..one thing though, the shadows is kinda bothering me. why does it stops at just before the plank ends? was there a window (trim/grill?) blocking the light? anyway..great stuff man. i like it.

sjmcc, great colored bottles. nice shader..what shader did you use?

sesim
05-19-2006, 02:15 AM
this comp is realy great:) im struggeling whith my hdri:) posting soon:) but i must say im pretty happy so far:)

c ya

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 03:49 AM
Here is a quick test I did.

Using a directional light and an HDR, 3 materials, one for the window, one for the bottles and one for the rest of the set. The bottle material is using fresnel and absorption. Setup time was about 5 minutes, rendertime about an hour with DOF, GI, and 13 reflections/13 refractions.

modo 201

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottle01.jpg

I'll play with it some more and see where else I can push this scene. Thanks for the geometry to test with.

sjmcc
05-19-2006, 04:39 AM
Thanks for the comments herbertagudera. The shaders are just some procedurals I threw together in Cinema4d except for the pink one which is one someone posted in one of the cinema forums. To be honest I don't remember who it was.

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 05:14 AM
Same setup, added a few textures and rotated the HDR image. I also lowered the absorption distance.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottle02.jpg

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 06:57 AM
16 minute render, got rid of the directional light, changed which HDR I'm using, and varied the color/absorption of the bottles...

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/16m_bottle03.jpg

kevb3d
05-19-2006, 08:23 AM
Hello - some tests.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/5370/bott026sc.jpg
caustics: on

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/3109/bott014ev.jpg
caustics: on

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9388/03bott0yy.jpg
caustics off (shadow color)

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9813/04bott6mg.jpg
caustics off

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7163/02bott9jv.jpg
caustics off

I don't want to play with caustics no more! so i fake them..
I'm happy at this point with glass and "caustics" -
i need to give some changes with color and fuel.. :)
Then i can work on the set - this may be a room, and you can see outside in the dark..
and there's a lamplight in the room (for me the outside is the part with no floor) =
cold light from the outside (blue) and warm from the lamp (yellow).
the environment could be any hdri so the bottles can reflect in a more realistic way, but i haven't figured out yet what one can see thru the window.. Help!

(i may change my mind becouse i can't find anywhere a ledge inside the room) hmm..

-e

Elvis75K,

Seriously, caustics take near forever (barring a few tricks that I need to adopt) for just a few "sparkles" in the render. They look really cool, but at a seriously expensive cost. I like what you are doing by faking the cautics. I definitely like where you're going with this. mental Ray kicks ass (if that's what you are using), but it seems slower with some things, especially motion blur...

Kev

elvis75k
05-19-2006, 09:45 AM
16 minute render, got rid of the directional light, changed which HDR I'm using, and varied the color/absorption of the bottles...

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/16m_bottle03.jpg


i like this more and the one shader solution is also a good test (the green bottles)...
The absorbtion is very nice.

jorust
05-19-2006, 10:28 AM
Hi Mike RB!
I'm soooo glad to see a 201 render here. Nice one :thumbsup:

rockmed
05-19-2006, 11:03 AM
Nice job Mike! This is my favorite one.
16 minute render, got rid of the directional light, changed which HDR I'm using, and varied the color/absorption of the bottles...

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/16m_bottle03.jpg

sesim
05-19-2006, 11:27 AM
hi all im finaly gona upload som WIPīs:) hope u like em, trying to get that sea feeling! of an quite old house near the harbour...

this is a verry compressed pic and with added noise in "ps"

Scrat-D
05-19-2006, 01:09 PM
Ok here's an update. I want to increase my transparency in all bottles and try out hdr lighting cause I've used a skylight and a MR omni and it takes half an hour to render with gi 500 and fg 100 (max's mental ray). I put a blue color as environment. C&C always welcome

ACamacho
05-19-2006, 02:00 PM
lots of good images here. Here is my attempt so far:

http://www.angelcamacho-torres.com/files/lambertTest.jpg

It's really eary and spent only about 10 or so minutes on it. But was trying to get a certain look before I went on to materials.....that'll be a challenge for sure! :) Hopefully I'll be able to finish this one unlike the four scripts challenge. It's rendered with mental ray (gonna use it for the glass) with one raytraced light and the rest shadowmap.

-Angel

slatr
05-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Hamburger, I tried to comp a sharper background image.. not a whole lot of high res pics of kilimanjaro but let me know what you think :)

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9316/glassesnewback3fw.jpg

EDIT: and here is one with the glassworks shader from Nitisara

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8159/bottlewithglassworks6hq.png


FORUM LINK FOR LW Glassworks Shader
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50596

CaptainObvious
05-19-2006, 05:18 PM
Still very much a WIP. I don't know what's causing the black squares, but it might be a bug of some sort. I'll see if I can get rid of them. No textures yet, and the glass shading is fairly primitive (I can't get absorbation to work properly in Kray). I'll post an update sooner or later, with textures and hopefully no black squares, and possibly more variation to the glass.

jeremybirn
05-19-2006, 05:52 PM
Hamburger, I tried to comp a sharper background image.. not a whole lot of high res pics of kilimanjaro but let me know what you think :)

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/9316/glassesnewback3fw.jpg


Your scene is coming along well. I think I recognize the problem with the refraction there: it appears to be missing the "exit" refraction in the back-faces. If you have a glass-like IOR (like 1.4-ish) but the orangina bottle on the right is turning into such a powerful magnifying glass as if the whole thing were a solid lens, then the problem is probably that the surface is refracting as if it is single sided, and not doing the refraction back out into air at the first inner wall of the bottle.

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 05:58 PM
8 minutes: I converted all the bottles to SDS to reduce the render errors from the geometry. I also swapped out the HDR again.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottle03.jpg

http://www.elelementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottle03.jpg

jeremybirn
05-19-2006, 06:01 PM
16 minute render, got rid of the directional light, changed which HDR I'm using, and varied the color/absorption of the bottles...

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/16m_bottle03.jpg

Looking good, this reflection/HDRI map is much better. I think you still need some light with a clear direction to its illumination and shadows, like the light you had coming in through the window. It looked weird in the previous renders because there wasn't continuity between the HDRI map and the lighting and shadows, but if you can make them work together in terms of direction, color, and softness, they both belong there.

The colors are nice, especially on the green glass. The glass that matches the environment is less well defined; it looks to me as if you'll need a third color in the bottles if the 2nd color is really going to work. You'll need to bite the bullet and subdivide the geometry too before you can really tweak the reflections, refraction, and shadows.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
05-19-2006, 06:04 PM
Okay I wanted to try and light this in the outdoors. To be honest I'm a little stumped on where to go with it and how to improve it, but here's what I have so far.

http://www.allcinema4me.com/cinema/lighting/AreaFill.jpg

That's a good start. You need to work on some kind of environment map, it could just be an image mapped onto a sphere for the bottles to reflect, but they need to reflect something if they are going to look like they are outside in daytime. Right now only a few of them appear to reflect anything, and I can't really tell what kind of natural environment they are supposed to be reflecting.

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 06:04 PM
Thanks for the comments, in that image with the bright window I had way too much base reflectance on the glass, it was coming out kind of mirror like. The glass looks much better in my latest image.

jeremybirn
05-19-2006, 06:17 PM
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3083/06bott5ju.jpg
ps.. i have to smooth all this poly bottles

Hope it's readable and clear --

-e

Those are some nice shadows! I agree we can do without caustics, although I'm planning to do some tests with caustics myself just for fun...

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 06:29 PM
Same setup, another angle.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottle04.jpg

lazzhar
05-19-2006, 06:36 PM
Hi, I'm impressed with your works guys !!
Here is my update :
http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/5388/scheme028pu.jpg

jorust
05-19-2006, 06:38 PM
I like the last one Mike RB.

Not only because of the cool angle ;) but for the beautiful light.
It's as if there's windows above the bottles, like a skylight or winter garden.
Nice.

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 07:06 PM
Thanks, here is same setup with the hdr rotated to make more sense with the window. Both about 10 minute renders.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot5a.jpg
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot5b.jpg

ACamacho
05-19-2006, 07:28 PM
Really nice Mike RB! Expecially the bottom one.....glass is great. One suggestion would be maybe to add a stronger reflection on the windows like the one you posted a few messages above. Maybe also brighten up the background a bit but that's minor. Very nice!

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 07:38 PM
Thanks! To be honest I'm really not doing much here. I haven't even really played with "lighting" this scene at all. All that is going on here is 3 glass surfaces with different absorption depths and colors, and a few basic surfaces for everything else. The rest is driven by the HDR, both for lighting (irradiance caching) and reflections. Modo 201 makes this type of scene really fast to setup.

CaptainObvious
05-19-2006, 08:04 PM
Your scene is coming along well. I think I recognize the problem with the refraction there: it appears to be missing the "exit" refraction in the back-faces. If you have a glass-like IOR (like 1.4-ish) but the orangina bottle on the right is turning into such a powerful magnifying glass as if the whole thing were a solid lens, then the problem is probably that the surface is refracting as if it is single sided, and not doing the refraction back out into air at the first inner wall of the bottle.

-jeremy
Yes, I agree. You need air polygons. Check out this tutorial (http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/LWGlass/LWGlass-1.html).




Thanks, here is same setup with the hdr rotated to make more sense with the window. Both about 10 minute renders.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot5a.jpg
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot5b.jpg
Ten minutes!?! What kind of hardware are you running? I can't wait to get my hands on 201. The raytracing is beautiful. There has been a severe lack of complex raytracing action in the friday updates, but I think this proves 201 handles it quite well indeed. :)

jeremybirn
05-19-2006, 08:27 PM
Yes, I agree. You need air polygons. Check out this tutorial (http://www.robinwood.com/Catalog/Technical/LightwaveTuts/LWPacks/LWGlass/LWGlass-1.html).:)
slatr himself posted a link to that tutorial on the 2nd page, so I know he's seen it. :)

I was telling him that in most renderers, you don't need to make copies of the surfaces in order for them to render double-sided and refract the rays back to air. I guess Lightwave users may need to cut some of the geometry in places if they really need to make back-faces with the opposite IOR out of these models. In most of these models the outside just loops around to become the inside surface, so it seems as if you'd be changing that if you followed that tutorial...

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-19-2006, 10:18 PM
amd x2 4400, rendering with 2 threads.

Insider
05-20-2006, 12:36 AM
Hi Jeremy! Nice idea for a challenge.
More modo.... a lot of surfacing issues, a few bottles no complete, but....

The windows are just off-white luminous polys, GI turned on, and one
reflector. Backdrop is just a two color gradient. No other lights in the scene.

Mike RB
05-20-2006, 12:38 AM
Nice Dan! What was your setup time?

here is another angle of the same setup:

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot5c.jpg

Insider
05-20-2006, 12:42 AM
Setup? Honestly, about 10 minutes for the lighting.
I spent over an hour screwing with surfaces :)

Render is about 15m on a Macbook Pro.

How about you? Great looking glass, btw. I like the marble-like window ledge!

Insider
05-20-2006, 01:10 AM
Here's one more, just a different angle, slight DOF.

jeremybirn
05-20-2006, 01:46 AM
I've been working on glassy looks and setting up an outdoor scene. This is with with stock Maya shaders, mostly PhongE, and rendered in MR.

http://3drender.com/challenges/bottlecollection/WebTest1.jpg

Tonight I'm going to try putting some caustics in there, and maybe render it in passes so I can play with the fill light levels in post a bit.

-jeremy

CaptainObvious
05-20-2006, 02:35 AM
slatr himself posted a link to that tutorial on the 2nd page, so I know he's seen it. :)
Oh. :P

I was telling him that in most renderers, you don't need to make copies of the surfaces in order for them to render double-sided and refract the rays back to air. I guess Lightwave users may need to cut some of the geometry in places if they really need to make back-faces with the opposite IOR out of these models. In most of these models the outside just loops around to become the inside surface, so it seems as if you'd be changing that if you followed that tutorial...
Whether or not the outside and the inside are a part of the same continuous mesh doesn't generally matter. As long as there are no smoothing errors or such, it's usually just the matter of pasting a flipped copy. I didn't have any problems with the items in this scene doing that. Well, I did have problems with one of the bottles, so I ended up rebuilding it to make the geometry cleaner. And at the end, I removed the air polys completely, since Kray doesn't need them.

Mike RB
05-20-2006, 06:52 AM
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot7.jpg

lazzhar
05-20-2006, 01:26 PM
Another render that toke 1h 15 min:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8010/bottlecollection0418vs.jpg

jeremybirn
05-20-2006, 01:43 PM
Lazhar -

I like the concept and the execution!

I wonder if the impression of a central light illuminating everything would be boosted by having more of a gradient in the background, brighter in the center and darker at the edges, or with more directional shadows radiating out and dominating the background?

-jeremy

jeremybirn
05-20-2006, 01:46 PM
I added a caustic pass, it didn't take long to render and seems to add alot to the glassy look, especially for trying to make glass in direct sun.

http://3drender.com/challenges/bottlecollection/WebTest2.jpg

-jeremy

jorust
05-20-2006, 01:59 PM
Hi Jeremy. The last one is nice. You're right about the caustic. Nice effect with the sunlight. I would like to see some of the bottles more transparent. I think some of them could be less diffuse/metallic/shiny.

Anyway. Here's my last one I guess. Nore color and less DOF.

http://homepage.mac.com/janoverust/.Pictures/CGTalk/bottles_03.jpg

Mike RB
05-20-2006, 04:20 PM
one more from modo201, about an hour rendertime with a bit of CC in PS.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot8cc.jpg

Phil Lawson
05-20-2006, 06:19 PM
Wow, cool contest with great renders so far.

Heres my first stab at it.

More modo 201 goodness with a really simple scene setup.

Currently only one HDRI and a directional light and a few basic textures. Just re-rendering to sort out the over exposed ledge. Slight PS bloom.

http://www.uberwave.co.uk/odom/glass/bottles.jpg

Cheers.

jorust
05-20-2006, 07:34 PM
Itīs a joy to see the clean renders from 201.

A nice render Phil, but the light is too hash. Looking forward to the rerender.

Phil Lawson
05-20-2006, 07:51 PM
Thanks...yeah, I totally agree. To be fair, I did just give the objects materials, added a hdri and hit F9 :)

Time to tweek... :D

lazzhar
05-20-2006, 08:04 PM
Thanks Jeremy. And great rendering by hte way.
It would be shame if we don't have some optical light effects in a glassy scene like this :p one:



http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/191/bottlecollection0401glow9fg.jpg


I'm trying to add some caustics but I failed to make it working with the l_Glass shader for Mental Ray. I'll probably try to render a pass with regular Maya shaders and see what could bring.
Geat stuff guys, keep them coming !!

meanlebh
05-20-2006, 10:15 PM
Got a little bit more time to work on this this weekend, so here is a quick update, not quite sure where to go next with it though so any comments would be appreciated...

Lazzhar, I like the way that this is going..but in my opinion the lighting effects/flares are far too strong and subtract from the strength of the rest of the scene...but otherwise nice!

Great work everbody, some really nice entries in here!

Thanks again.

-Brian

CaptainObvious
05-21-2006, 12:21 AM
Am I the only modo user without access to the 201 beta? :/ Oh well.

I'm having some issues with this scene. Lightwave's renderer looks bloody terrific, I think, but it's slow. Rendering just reflections/fractions raytracing (no lights) takes five minutes per AA pass at 640x480 with 13 recursions. With 8 recursions, it takes like a minute and a half, but looks like crap. :(

So I'm trying Kray. It renders fairly fast (most importantly, multiple recursions doesn't slow it down much), but the reflections look a lot less lively, as you can see (http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayvslightwave.jpg). It's the same exact settings, so I have no idea what's causing it. :(

jeremybirn
05-21-2006, 01:18 AM
I don't see why people are complaining about trivial 5 or 10 minute render times. When I turned on some effects like chromatic aberration or oversampled soft refraction with enough refraction steps, frame render times jumped from 20 minutes to about 5 hours at 1200x600. I have since turned off chromatic aberrations because I decided I didn't like the look of them, but if my frame needed to render overnight, I would have left it rendering overnight. Unless you have something much more pressing to leave your computer doing while you sleep or while you go to work, I don't see the problem with letting it render.

(Of course test renders while you work need to be faster than that, but usually quick tests can be done at lower quality, or you can just render tiny cropped regions of what you are adjusting, instead of the full frame at once, while you adjust a scene.)

-jeremy

CaptainObvious
05-21-2006, 03:25 AM
I don't see why people are complaining about trivial 5 or 10 minute render times.
That was five minutes with no anti-aliasing, no lights, no GI, no caustics... just reflections and refractions.

Freak!!
05-21-2006, 04:56 AM
Thought i would join the fun, Lightwave render (1hr rendertime)
This is a slightly smaller, and quality reduced gif.

I could not use the glass shader i wanted, due to
unfun rendertimes, so the glass will have to stay as is.
But i still need to work on a final liighting setup.

I really like the caustic pass, Jeremy.

http://freestyler.site.net.au/Images/GlassTest1.gif

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 06:33 AM
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot9.jpg

herbertagudera
05-21-2006, 06:39 AM
i like the latest version mike. nice shader..

jeremy, how do you make a separate caustic pass?

great images guys..

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 06:49 AM
Thanks. It's pretty cool in modo 201 that the base material can handle this stuff. No special shaders or whatever are needed...

It's just diffuse low, fresnel high, reflectivity low, transparency high, ~5cm absorption, and a transparent color set to either green or brown. No special shaders or whatever are needed as the base material has Beer's law built into the transparency absorption attribute. That render took about 45 minutes.

MasterZap
05-21-2006, 07:00 AM
Hi Jeremy. The last one is nice. You're right about the caustic. Nice effect with the sunlight.

I tried caustics on mine and the difference was negligeble to the transparent shadow case. (Tho I'm using a "special" transparent shadow shader of my own doing ;) )

I would like to see some of the bottles more transparent. I think some of them could be less diffuse/metallic/shiny.

I agree. Jeremy's complaint on mine was that bottles wasn't shiny enough, I counter with saying his bottles are way too shiny. They all look like metallized glass.

Traditional dielectric glass reflects suprisingly little in the facing direction (like less than 5%).

/Z

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 07:20 AM
modo 201 material:

Other than some basic settings the main thing driving the look of this is the HDR image for reflections....

from left to right:
-default material
-100% fresnel and 3% base reflectance
-0% diffuse
-85% transparent with slight brown color, refraction of 1.66
-transparency absorption set to 10mm (these bottles are pretty tall in modo scale)

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/glassdemo.jpg

Hamburger
05-21-2006, 08:38 AM
http://kiernanmay.net/images/cgchallenge/test2.jpg

I've been really strugeling with the l_glass shader. I believe it gets better results than the standard blinns and phongs, especially with reflections, but I'm having trouble where the bottles overlap. As you can see in the image above it gets really dark when they overlap - so for all the mayans out there using this shader, is there a setting somewhere that I've missed?

Mike RB: I really like the results you've been getting with your modo renders. If you mix your latest scene with some of the greener bottles you did on this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3561962&postcount=96) post, it'll look great.

lazzhar
05-21-2006, 08:40 AM
That was five minutes with no anti-aliasing, no lights, no GI, no caustics... just reflections and refractions.

5 Minutes is pretty fast. I had to isolate bottles and render them seperatly to see what's going on each one, then show all bottles and hit render to go out or sleep.

jorust
05-21-2006, 08:45 AM
Am I the only modo user without access to the 201 beta? :/ Oh well.


He,He... You are not alone. But soon we all can play with 201.

I did mine with Lightwave/FPrime, but I'm going to give it a shot in XSI.

HamburgerTrain: Nice moonligh you got there...

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 08:54 AM
I'm having trouble where the bottles overlap. As you can see in the image above it gets really dark when they overlap - so for all the mayans out there using this shader, is there a setting somewhere that I've missed?

It looks like you need more reflections/refractions. I'm not sure what the default is for maya but you'll probably have to bump it up to at least 10 each.

gerardo
05-21-2006, 08:55 AM
Nice renders guys. I've had some time today to play with this scene. The environment was rendered in Lightwave using the Dave Jerrard's spinning_light trick for the distant scene and my gradients trick for the local scene (which was very simple); bottles with refractions and reflections was rendered in FPrime (with GI enabled). Caustics and dust was rendered as separate passes and Dof was added later in Lightwave again. I used AE for composition :)

http://www.geocities.com/cgtalklinks/bottles.txt



Gerardo

sesim
05-21-2006, 09:25 AM
hi all again!

here are my WIP

http://usera.imagecave.com/sesim/bottlecopetiton.jpg

C&C

hmm any suggestions for the shadows? the light is kind a soft so i guess it will look like this?

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 10:18 AM
Outdoors:

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot10.jpg

You can see the absorption effects a lot better with this HDR.

Cypher666
05-21-2006, 12:42 PM
Here is my first WIP. Still some major stuff to be done, such as fixing the caustics and doing the shaders for nearly everything but the glass. I'm using the L_glass2 shader for mental ray in 3dmax8 but have been having major issues with grainy artifacts in the bottles at the back, which I'm lead to believe is a multi-threading problem:shrug:. The idea is to have some of the bottles filled with blood with others stained red and some blood stains kinda running down the wall. I was gonna have the shadow of a vampire in there, but I scrapped that idea a while ago. If anyone else knows how to fix my grain issues I would really appreciate your help:thumbsup:.

VictorAscencao
05-21-2006, 01:55 PM
I'm not very happy with it but is just the first one

CaptainObvious
05-21-2006, 02:50 PM
http://www.geocities.com/cgtalklinks/bottles.txt
<Mortal Combat>
Fatality!
</Mortal Combat>



He,He... You are not alone. But soon we all can play with 201.

I did mine with Lightwave/FPrime, but I'm going to give it a shot in XSI.
Soon, soon, not soon enough! I'm getting pretty good results out of Kray, but there are so many issues, and the workflow is hardly stellar... Even if the renderer wasn't faster than Kray, the setup will be so much easier. I can't even get absorbation to work in Kray! Surface thickness gradients require air polygons, and air polygons in Kray makes refractions look pretty much like not using air polys looks in the standard renderer. Argh.

I liked your Fprime rendering, too. What render time, and on what hardware?

jorust
05-21-2006, 04:10 PM
Hello Captain - Glad someone liked it. :shrug:

The rendertime was about 30 min on my 3Ghz Pentuim 4.
I rendered a depth-pass in FPrime - in less than a minute - and used that for the DOF.

jeremybirn
05-21-2006, 05:22 PM
OK, I'm bringing down some of the reflections, but trying to keep them contrasty and HDR-ish in places as well.

I have to fix a few of the bottles like that green one near the left that seems to show a brighter world through its transparency somehow...

http://3drender.com/challenges/bottlecollection/WebTest3.jpg

-jeremy

jeremybirn
05-21-2006, 05:38 PM
hi all again!

here are my WIP

http://usera.imagecave.com/sesim/bottlecopetiton.jpg

C&C

hmm any suggestions for the shadows? the light is kind a soft so i guess it will look like this?

Ha! That's great!

Shadows would be sortof like that. Except perhaps some of the background bottles on the left could have better defined shadows. The 2nd and 3rd background ones look as if they are floating above the ground, and also look as if they are the same bottle in places and could use some definition.

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-21-2006, 07:07 PM
trying other outdoors ideas...

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot11.jpg

CaptainObvious
05-21-2006, 08:51 PM
Is that the forest lightprobe that ATI used for their demo, Mike_RB? I'm using the same one. :p

Argh. Rendering is slow. Who wants to buy me a faster machine? ;)


Two new images:

http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles1.png
http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles2.png

VictorAscencao
05-21-2006, 11:46 PM
sesim love your image. is just great!...Mike RB are you using the beta release of MODO 201?? for the renders?

Thanks

gerardo
05-22-2006, 12:36 AM
Same image, other compositing treatment :)


http://www.geocities.com/cgtalklinks/bottlednite.txt



Gerardo

jorust
05-22-2006, 05:50 AM
@ sesim - That's a nice and clean render. I really like the comp and the light. It would be nice to see some DOF.

@ Captain O. - Looking better, but I would do the DOF in post. Faster render, and you don't have to comit to a focuspoint at rendertime...

@ gerardo - Thas a beautiful render. I like the volume/dust effect. The tone of the image is realistic, and the bloom/glow is spot on.
Always a joy to see your renders and your tricks in actions.

herbertagudera
05-22-2006, 08:44 AM
sesim, thats a lovely picture. i love it.

gerardo, just like polymess. i love the dust effect too.

captain, i really like the second image. its kinda romantic..he he

okay here's my second lighting version.

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_MR_ha_v01.jpg

this time i used mentalray as my renderer. no mr shaders used(but i sure would try using some.he he) . just blinn on all of the bottles. anyway, as you can see i made a gobo light, but it seems that it's not affecting the ledge. any ideas? im kinda stuck at this problem.

thanks for all your help!

elvis75k
05-22-2006, 09:06 AM
I've been busy all the week-end..
I've followed updates on the thread from a psp and there's no
way to reply from a psp becouse of javascript..

@ sesim --
I like what are u doing here exept adding geometry to the scene..
The sand in the bottle is amazing!

@ jeremy --
Yes caustics are fun!! And rendertimes too!
I've decided to play with caustics once again (maybe combining two methods)
and i may add some also some milk - using physical sss -

Keep going guys!!

updates soon..

-e

CaptainObvious
05-22-2006, 09:40 AM
@ Captain O. - Looking better, but I would do the DOF in post. Faster render, and you don't have to comit to a focuspoint at rendertime...
Actually, Kray doesn't slow down much with DOF. You need 4x4 grid anti-aliasing anyway for an image like this, usually, and the advantage with not doing it is that it's more accurate.

@ gerardo - Thas a beautiful render. I like the volume/dust effect. The tone of the image is realistic, and the bloom/glow is spot on.
Always a joy to see your renders and your tricks in actions.
Agreed.

gerardo
05-22-2006, 11:11 AM
Captain Obvious, thanks. I also like more the overall lighting of your second image, but I prefer the little details in your surfaces of the first one. I agree with Polymess about to apply the dof effect later and not in FPrime (you can even added with LW renderer if you want). Btw, if you refer to devebec's rnl_probe, I'm using the same image (at least for my outdoors) :)

Polymess, thanks man! I also like the camera shot you have choosen for your image, have you used Lightwave or FPrime? At least here with one of my old machines (2Gb) render all those refractions and reflections with LW was too much time for me (RRL : 16), so I render the environment in LW (about 8min) and the bottles in FPrime (about 30-45 min). Dof effect and dust takes just few seconds in LW. I like also the flexibility we get working in a FP space

Herbert, thanks. Dust effect in bottles is just a texture based on an incidence angle gradient :)

MikeRB, very nice results you have there, man.



Gerardo

jorust
05-22-2006, 12:12 PM
Thanks gerardo. I used only FPrime. Also for the depth-pass. http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7451

I used Depth of Field Generator PRO in Photoshop. http://www.richardrosenman.com/software/

elvis75k
05-22-2006, 12:54 PM
I have a link for you.... :D maybe usefull.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/ligcon.html#c1

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/geoopt/optpic/brokpen.jpg

-e

jeremybirn
05-22-2006, 01:14 PM
anyway, as you can see i made a gobo light, but it seems that it's not affecting the ledge. any ideas? im kinda stuck at this problem.

Try isolating that light, hide all other lights and turn off any effects or options you don't need, and render by itself.

-jeremy

herbertagudera
05-22-2006, 02:58 PM
thanks jeremy. i got it working a few hours ago. it turns out that the mesh doesnt have a UV Set(?) when i checked it at the UV texture editor. what i did was click the auto mapping. then i got it workin. he he..

anyway heres a render

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_MR_ha_v02a.jpg

after this gonna try putting caustics. and oh, can anyone teach me how to separate the caustics as a separate pass? thanks.

jeremybirn
05-22-2006, 03:58 PM
can anyone teach me how to separate the caustics as a separate pass? thanks.

You don't have to do caustics as a separate pass. Having the caustics visible along with everything else, so they refract through the bottles and are filtered through the same transparency maps and bump maps, actually makes them better. I made a separate pass only because I'm still doing tests and wanted to play with their intensity and color in post, as well as keeping my main raytracing separate so I could see what they took in terms of rendertime.

To make the pass below, I just lit the scene with 1 light emitting caustic photons, but not emitting diffuse or specular illumination, and rendered with caustics in mental ray. I didn't use the "global illumination" pass rendering option in maya 7 because I wasn't sure if it would show all the reflections and refraction of the caustics, and I didn't need it anyway.
http://www.3drender.com/challenges/bottlecollection/CausticsPass1.jpg
Another way to get caustics or GI into a separate pass is to render once with caustics, then again with caustics turned off, and do a difference operation between them.

-jeremy

Mike RB
05-22-2006, 04:10 PM
sesim love your image. is just great!...Mike RB are you using the beta release of MODO 201?? for the renders?

Thanks

Yes, and it makes setup of this type of scene very simple as everything you need for good glass shading is right in the default material (fresnel, absorption, and refraction). It also makes getting an HDR in the scene easy as well as you can just set the texture to use Light Probe coordinates, so PS unwrapping is not needed.

jorust
05-22-2006, 04:15 PM
Hey Jeremy, that caustic pass looks cool just as it is. Spooky... :)

sesim
05-22-2006, 08:53 PM
hmmm jeromy! u think its wrong to add other things to the scene? as long i aim at the lightning and the bottles? right?

jeremybirn
05-22-2006, 09:46 PM
hmmm jeromy! u think its wrong to add other things to the scene? as long i aim at the lightning and the bottles? right?

Go ahead. Other people have added things.

-jeremy

sesim
05-22-2006, 10:14 PM
Go ahead. Other people have added things.

-jeremy


thanx:) will post updates soon...

depleteD
05-23-2006, 12:46 AM
hey great wwork everyone, cruised this thread and was like wow. Lighting glass is tricky. SO I will give it a try. So kinda playing with the lighting. not really going for something that would be seen in reality to much. Happy with the blue green and orange. Might put a lil red into the orange? Gonna play with the glowing liquid. I thought I was gonna be the first to do it but nope. There was a cool render before with some green yellow liquid.
That purple is just me playing with glowworm shader.

http://people.uleth.ca/%7Eandrew.melnychukosee/lC4/lightingChallenge4.jpg

sburto20
05-23-2006, 01:07 AM
Lets give it a shot!

herbertagudera
05-23-2006, 01:42 AM
Maybe if previous challenges were plugged in front page that would attract more people !


now were on front page. he he he. hopefully more people would join.

sapienz
05-23-2006, 01:50 AM
I just came back from a trip yesterday, glad to see the overwhelming respones so far. Been fumbling with MentalRay shaders and got some funny results.
Any MR expert can dawn some light on Photons emission, Glass Lume, Raytrace Depth and Caustic Generation for me?
I'm quite new to MR and i've been gettin weird results.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/sapienz/MyWork/Challenge_funkydiscolights.jpg
Weird disco caustic

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/sapienz/MyWork/Challenge_alphaChannel.jpg
When i switch to my alpha channel

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f219/sapienz/MyWork/Challenge_MRsetting.jpg
My MR setting

My Alpha Channel is showing, is this because i didn't have enought Trace Depth?
I've been gettin the No Photons stored after 10K emission, cancelling emission error...
How do i get to fixing this error? Do i have to convert all my shaders in the scene into MR shaders?

RobertoOrtiz
05-23-2006, 01:51 AM
Ok this deserved to be plugged. Good luck guys.

-R

singleguy
05-23-2006, 01:51 AM
wow. this looks interesting. its been ages since i last posted anything or even write anything in this forum. Downloading the files, will try to render out the images.

Freak!!
05-23-2006, 01:55 AM
Okay here is my 2nd attempt (i like the first one better)
Lighting is a weak point of mine, and challenges like this proove it... :)
I changed reflection maps to a HDRI, and now they are a bit overdone..
Still can't figure out a nice but cheap (rendertime) lighting setup.... Doh!
This one is an Fprime render and not native LW..
Back to the drawing board..

http://freestyler.site.net.au/Images/Glass3.jpg

gerardo
05-23-2006, 03:35 AM
Thanks gerardo. I used only FPrime. Also for the depth-pass. http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7451

I used Depth of Field Generator PRO in Photoshop. http://www.richardrosenman.com/software/

Interesting technique Polymess. I guess we can also use a distance to object gradient to make a focus map (a la Idof). Does DOFPro work with focus maps as well?

Freak!!, your last image looks nice, but for some reason it looks like you are limiting the dynamic range a bit too much :)



Gerardo

gaiXyn
05-23-2006, 03:42 AM
WOW, some really nice renders so far your guys :thumbsup:

I would love to join but I think something like this would kill my machine. :)

Freak!!
05-23-2006, 04:28 AM
Freak!!, your last image looks nice, but for some reason it looks like you are limiting the dynamic range a bit too much :)

Gerardo

Thanks Gerardo, and thanks for providing some crits.... I'm redoing a bunch of stuff now.
I do seem to struggle a bit to get the contrast and look i'm wanting...
PS. Your volumetric, dust and post work made some very polished renders. Very nice!

herbertagudera
05-23-2006, 05:15 AM
okay heres my third take using MR renderer. made a few adjustments in photoshop, mainly color correction (i dunno if i got the color correcting right, i kinda suck in photoshop. he he).

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_MR_ha_v03.jpg

hris
05-23-2006, 06:14 AM
OK, i want to entry to this challange...in few days i put some test here:)
Big greetings from Poland for all people here:)

Hris (that my nickname, not a Name)

Mike RB
05-23-2006, 06:23 AM
Another modo 201 render....

I was looking for a more interesting camera angle and saw this in the preview while I was moving my camera and thought this close up looked interesting. I lowered the absorption distance to get a prettier effect in the foreground bottle... render took 15 minutes. nice.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose01.jpg
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose.jpg

cesarmontero
05-23-2006, 06:41 AM
When does this challenge ends?
I'll try to give myself a day to this one.
I'l just too busy, but the topic is quite entretaining.
Thanks

jorust
05-23-2006, 07:07 AM
Hi Cesar.

This challenge really never ends, but it will loose it's momentum and finally be forgotten.

So join when you can... :thumbsup:

Mike RB
05-23-2006, 07:13 AM
I'm digging the closeups....

more modo:

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose02.jpg

elvis75k
05-23-2006, 07:17 AM
Yeah!! Very good work Mike!!
Finally we're on frontpage! Thanks Roberto.

-e

Hamburger
05-23-2006, 07:21 AM
herbertagudera: Your renders are looking great. The shadows that are cast onto the bottles and on the window look a bit pixellated to me - try slightly softer shadows. It's coming along nicely though, glass materials are looking great.

herbertagudera
05-23-2006, 07:31 AM
herbertagudera: Your renders are looking great. The shadows that are cast onto the bottles and on the window look a bit pixellated to me - try slightly softer shadows. It's coming along nicely though, glass materials are looking great.

thanks hamburgerTrain. its an image mapped to the keylights color. i'll go blur the image. thanks again.

hey mike! you're bombarding us with pretty images man! i cant take it anymore. they are oh so pretty! he he. :thumbsup: keep it coming!

Phil Lawson
05-23-2006, 07:39 AM
Awesome updates guys! Nice one.

Mike: Looking really nice with the close up shots :thumbsup:

I ran out of time to work on my scene the other day...I should have free time tonight to update.

Buca
05-23-2006, 07:44 AM
Hi all.
my try with Inspirer
processing: 25 min
rendering: 45 min
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8504/bottle10dy.jpg

lazzhar
05-23-2006, 08:06 AM
Great it's on frontpage !! Thanks Roberto !

Here is another render while waiting for the caustic version:
http://i4.tinypic.com/10gbccp.jpg

Remmers
05-23-2006, 08:24 AM
I will give it a try, this will be my first callange, hopfully it won't crach my machine. wish my luck.

Mike RB
05-23-2006, 08:26 AM
Awesome updates guys! Nice one.

Mike: Looking really nice with the close up shots :thumbsup:


Yeah, the close-ups are kinda fun. The rendertimes still arent bad (30min) but I think because of all the compressed reflections in the curvy surfaces I need to lower my AA refinement rate.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose03.jpg

lazzhar
05-23-2006, 08:33 AM
Great job Mike !! You are behind plugging this on front page :D

Yazan
05-23-2006, 08:52 AM
Here's my first WIP, I don't know if I have time to continue and finish, but here it is.

http://www.null.jo/ArchDesign/GlassCG.jpg

Yazan

jorust
05-23-2006, 09:10 AM
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose03.jpg



The glass looks sooooo great. Nice going Mike :thumbsup:

jorust
05-23-2006, 09:18 AM
Hi all.
my try with Inspirer
processing: 25 min
rendering: 45 min
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8504/bottle10dy.jpg

That one is beautiful. Nice īMediterraneanīlight. Glass and caustic looks impressive.

mech7
05-23-2006, 10:15 AM
It looks like the entire house is tumbling towards me :p

Still very much a WIP. I don't know what's causing the black squares, but it might be a bug of some sort. I'll see if I can get rid of them. No textures yet, and the glass shading is fairly primitive (I can't get absorbation to work properly in Kray). I'll post an update sooner or later, with textures and hopefully no black squares, and possibly more variation to the glass.

Kabab
05-23-2006, 10:55 AM
Man that Modo shader kicks ass so fast so clean and looks so real i've never been able to get those level of results with MR...

animet
05-23-2006, 11:19 AM
hi all:)

it looks quite interesting so i'ii give a try....is it late u think? ....oooh i dont want to think of.....:shrug:

elvis75k
05-23-2006, 11:49 AM
c'mon in.. Call all your friends too!

jorust
05-23-2006, 11:56 AM
This is so much fun, I had to do another one, with a different 'twist'.

Hope you like it...

http://homepage.mac.com/janoverust/.Pictures/CGTalk/bottles_04.jpg

Hamburger
05-23-2006, 12:04 PM
http://www.kiernanmay.net/images/cgchallenge/test4.jpg

Here's another. I added different materials and upped the reflection count which helped so thanks Mike!

lazzhar
05-23-2006, 12:08 PM
This is so much fun, I had to do another one, with a different 'twist'.

Hope you like it...
http://homepage.mac.com/janoverust/.Pictures/CGTalk/bottles_04.jpg



Great one plymess !!
I like the clean look a lot.

synixz
05-23-2006, 12:12 PM
my first steps:

http://www.cinema4d.nl/phpBB2/album_pic.php?pic_id=7056

Scrat-D
05-23-2006, 12:32 PM
This challenge is great! Here is my third attempt. I am trying to decrease render time and still get a good result (ok I know every 3d nut in this world is doing the same thing :P). No fg or gi only hdr lighting. Rendering time 2 min 46 secs. I need help on how to go on with lights. I am thinking of a mr omni and keep the hdr. Am I on a good way or not?

AndreiSzasz
05-23-2006, 01:08 PM
this is my first test for the bottles lighting..
hope you like it

Yazan
05-23-2006, 02:21 PM
Here's another update

http://www.null.jo/ArchDesign/Glass3.jpg

Yazan

Nice stuff guys/gals

Scrat-D
05-23-2006, 02:28 PM
Yazan interesting approach! Could you give some details on what you are using?

Yazan
05-23-2006, 02:36 PM
Sorry IpiotisDinos, I should have mentioned it.

Lightwave 8.5
Second pic has some candles modeled in modo.
Candle flame is just an image on a poly with a clip map, point to camera on heading and some glow.
Modeled a tree like object. Glass has bump which is why the window is frostish.
HDR taken down to 1% brightness in image world, hense the dark colors. I still like it though.
Surfaces are pretty simple, there are air polys. Rendering at 1280*960, no antialiasing, scaled to 640 480, added additional glow and artifacts.
no radiosity, no casutics
refractions, reflections, raytrace shadows
One Backlight area
5 point lights with falloffs
I think thats it.

Yazan

Edit: Here's another
http://www.null.jo/ArchDesign/Glass5.jpg

jorust
05-23-2006, 03:56 PM
Welcome to CGSociety and this lighting challenge Yazan.

Nice mood in those renders. Beautiful sunset and candle light. :thumbsup:

Yazan
05-23-2006, 04:21 PM
Thanks JO. Its nice to see fellow modonauts in this part of the woods. I don't post much here, as you can see. But I read posts every now and then!. Your renders are sweet by the way. i also love the clean look. Its really intriguing to see the different moods and ideas.

Yazan

Edit: Last one for tonight.
http://www.null.jo/ArchDesign/Glass6.jpg

elvis75k
05-23-2006, 04:33 PM
@ Yazan great work!
Try just to fix the scattering down the bottle,
you can do it better!!

@ HamburgerTrain : nice depth here!!

this thread rocks!!

-e

herbertagudera
05-23-2006, 04:51 PM
okay, i imade the gobos a bit blurry.
here it is

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_MR_ha_v03b.jpg


and now a night scene.

http://www.geebodigital.com/cornblog/CG_lightingChallenge/challenge04_MR_night_ha_v01.jpg

still working on the shadows, caustics and lighting.

Yazan! those are great renders. i like the bottles with flames inside.

eirenicon
05-23-2006, 05:13 PM
The download link doesn't work anymore, could someone upload it themselves?

par_laura
05-23-2006, 05:16 PM
Hello Everyone
I wanted to enter this challange but i wasn't able to go to the link listed for the obj. file I got an error message. Can sombody please tell me how to get the obj. file please and thank you

elvis75k
05-23-2006, 05:17 PM
also the persp view is gone (in the 1st page) ..
maybe jeremy had some issue with hosting. Wait a while...

http://www.3drender.com/ Disk Space Violation / Exceeded.


file deleted .. problem solved... go down and you'll find it..

hope jeremy agree... :rolleyes:

herbertagudera
05-23-2006, 05:28 PM
okay you can download the zipped files here until jeremy's website is back.

files deleted.

jeremyhardin
05-23-2006, 05:28 PM
and another mirror of the .obj:
EDIT: REMOVED. SEE BELOW.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3572424&postcount=199

Phil Lawson
05-23-2006, 05:38 PM
Every time I come back here, more excellent work has been posted.

modo201
http://www.uberwave.co.uk/odom/glass/bottles3.jpg

Going for a sort of dreamy, soft light scene now. Still to work on materials.

Cheers.

jeremybirn
05-23-2006, 05:46 PM
Sorry about the interruption!

The website is back on-line: http://www.3drender.com/challenges/

-jeremy

lukx
05-23-2006, 05:52 PM
finally put together new rig so I't good oportunity to test it :). Here it is what I got so far:
http://img11.picsplace.to/img10/9/BottleCollectionLukx.jpg

pixym
05-23-2006, 06:08 PM
Here is a quick test I did.

Using a directional light and an HDR, 3 materials, one for the window, one for the bottles and one for the rest of the set. The bottle material is using fresnel and absorption. Setup time was about 5 minutes, rendertime about an hour with DOF, GI, and 13 reflections/13 refractions.

modo 201


I'll play with it some more and see where else I can push this scene. Thanks for the geometry to test with.

Can you tell us on what machine do you render?

Phil Lawson
05-23-2006, 06:26 PM
Can you tell us on what machine do you render?

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3561240&postcount=89

pixym
05-23-2006, 06:56 PM
Thanks Phil ;)

Phil Lawson
05-23-2006, 07:04 PM
No problem :)

valentine
05-23-2006, 07:51 PM
is there any deadline for this challenge? i noticed that this challenge runs since the 12th may.. so if theres some time left, i would enter the challenge, too ;)

thx & best regards
jannis

jeremybirn
05-23-2006, 08:17 PM
Go ahead and enter whenever you want. We're looking forwards to seeing your stuff.

-jeremy

PS- If anyone ever wants an answer to a question like "Is it OK to change the models?" or "Is it too late to enter a challenge?", the answers are in the F.A.Q. (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=319005)

jorust
05-23-2006, 08:40 PM
OK. This is my last one. I promise ;)

A bit 'crazy'...

http://homepage.mac.com/janoverust/.Pictures/CGTalk/bottles_05.jpg

gerardo
05-23-2006, 08:53 PM
Very nice and clean render Polymess!

Yazan, I like a lot that's night scene, man. Maybe you want to increase the SSS effect a little in the candles.



Gerardo

Jeff Dux
05-23-2006, 09:14 PM
polymess that looks good!

here is my attempt:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b276/211er/temp/2.jpg
rendered in 3D max with MR and some postwork.
c&c welcome.

jhasse
05-23-2006, 09:42 PM
http://www.fraternalamor.com/images/bottles1.jpg

http://www.fraternalamor.com/files/bottles_scenes1.jpg

http://www.fraternalamor.com/images/bottles2.jpg

some critique will be good, thanks...

JM

slatr
05-23-2006, 10:04 PM
Mike RB is kicking butt! Those images are like the ones where they ask you to decide... is it real or is it CGI? :applause:

This update of mine got lost earlier I think

http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/8159/bottlewithglassworks6hq.png

The glasses are too bright and I am having trouble with shadows.. more work.. but fun :)

Jeff Dux
05-23-2006, 10:06 PM
@hasse32: have you tried to smooth the bottles?
the bump on the windowsill looks like itīs a bit too much and you could add another light inside the "room" to get a more dynamic lighting.

slatr
05-23-2006, 10:07 PM
You guys that are kicking butt.. how about some screenshots of your lighting within your program of choice :)

Hook us up :)

CaptainObvious
05-23-2006, 10:22 PM
Another variation. The undersampling really killed some areas because it's so dark, and the flame doesn't show up enough in reflections, but bah.

http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles4.jpg

KRZ9000
05-23-2006, 10:23 PM
heres my try

http://www.krz9000.net/01renders/images/00div/images-800x600/lightchallenge04-krz9000-01.jpg

1200x900 version (http://www.krz9000.net/01renders/images/00div/images-1200x900/lightchallenge04-krz9000-01.jpg)

done with maxwell
rendered 4h with a 3800x2 2gig
reached sl11

i will let it render again over night and merge the two mxis tommorrow evening. untill then the noise should be clear and the image should be brighten up alittle bit too.
i rendered with multilight option on, so i can easily adjust light intensities:)

what do you think?

Jeff Dux
05-23-2006, 10:39 PM
hey KRZ9000 i like the mood in your rendering, the materials are also really good, but the lightbox you have in your scene looks too simple, perhaps you could place a modeled lamp in there...
just some thoughts

Mike RB
05-23-2006, 11:23 PM
MODO 201:

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bottop01.jpg

CaptainObvious
05-24-2006, 12:12 AM
http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles5.jpg


Fixed the undersampling. :)



Mike, that's beautiful.

Mortis
05-24-2006, 12:41 AM
Gey guys
You all are doing a great job. I think this challenge is the best opportunity to advance my render/lighting-skills... therefore I would love to participate. But here is my problem and its kinda embarissing to ask. I just cant find a way to import these objects into 3dsmax. I would apreciate any help, but I guess Im better off hiding myself. :D

machuca
05-24-2006, 12:44 AM
polymess, jeff dux, mike rb - nice renders guys!
hasse32 - your bottles need some smoothing to look even better!! also theres no shadow under the bottles.. liek they are floating there..
captain obvious nice diferent render there! maybe something behind the window glasses?? or are they not glass?
KRZ9000 - nice render, but too saturated for my liking ;)
keep up everybody! :thumbsup:

Freak!!
05-24-2006, 02:33 AM
Okay here is another test render....
Starting to get sick of trying to light this scene
dagnabbit!

I will try some multipass and post work
attempts soon.... As i liked them better.

The wood texture has problems,
need to redo some textures again...
C&C welcome...


http://freestyler.site.net.au/Images/Glass2.jpg

Cypher666
05-24-2006, 02:38 AM
Here is an update of my scene. I made the stupid mistake of assigning the glass material to some of the liquid:banghead: (http://misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#), but it took all night to render so I'll fix it up later. I get the feeling that my skylight is still to bright and some of my materials are wrong (the window frame), I would really like to hear some suggestions. Thnx:) (http://misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

jeremybirn
05-24-2006, 02:42 AM
Okay here is another test render....
Starting to get sick of trying to light this scene
dagnabbit!

There's a pool of light on the empty part of the windowsill to the right of the bottles that I'd think could be highlighting the bottles instead. I can't tell if that light is supposed to be coming from inside or outside, or what motivates it, but it looks important enough that I'd think you could move it onto the bottles.

In terms of the bottles themselves, they are off to a good start. Sometimes really nailing a glass shader or something is easier if you just do some renders of 1 bottle by itself until you love it.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
05-24-2006, 02:44 AM
heres my try

http://www.krz9000.net/01renders/images/00div/images-800x600/lightchallenge04-krz9000-01.jpg

1200x900 version (http://www.krz9000.net/01renders/images/00div/images-1200x900/lightchallenge04-krz9000-01.jpg)

done with maxwell
rendered 4h with a 3800x2 2gig
reached sl11

i will let it render again over night and merge the two mxis tommorrow evening. untill then the noise should be clear and the image should be brighten up alittle bit too.
i rendered with multilight option on, so i can easily adjust light intensities:)

what do you think?

Looks good, nice colors and cinematic feel.

-jeremy

jeremybirn
05-24-2006, 02:46 AM
http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles5.jpg


Fixed the undersampling. :)

That's looking good. I wish the candle lit the bottles a lot more, the windowframe seems to get all the light and not much candlelight hits the glass.

-jeremy

Freak!!
05-24-2006, 03:01 AM
There's a pool of light on the empty part of the windowsill to the right of the bottles that I'd think could be highlighting the bottles instead. I can't tell if that light is supposed to be coming from inside or outside, or what motivates it, but it looks important enough that I'd think you could move it onto the bottles.

In terms of the bottles themselves, they are off to a good start. Sometimes really nailing a glass shader or something is easier if you just do some renders of 1 bottle by itself until you love it.

-jeremy

Thanks for the crits Jeremy, it's amazing you can pick those little things, that i can't....
(well not really that amazing i guess) :)

It's meant to be coming from outside, but if you can't tell than obviously i've failed.... :)

Yeah i have managed to get much better glass, but due to the amount of bottles rendertimes
i can't really tweak them all easily or quickly. No caustics either.
But thanks, i'll give it another go over the next few days...
And already looking forward to what the next challenge will entail.

Thanks again.

Thanks!

jeremybirn
05-24-2006, 03:02 AM
Every time I come back here, more excellent work has been posted.

modo201
http://www.uberwave.co.uk/odom/glass/bottles3.jpg

Going for a sort of dreamy, soft light scene now. Still to work on materials.

Cheers.

That's coming out really nice. You said you are still working on the materials, probably that'll include getting rid of some of the black areas, once they are all more transparent that'll help complete the low-key dreamy look.

-jeremy

Hamburger
05-24-2006, 03:08 AM
Thanks for the crits Jeremy, it's amazing you can pick those little things, that i can't....

Try getting your final image, before you post it, and put into photoshop or something and flip the image horizontally. Your brain won't recognise it and you'll be looking at your scene with a fresh pair of eyes.

Mike RB
05-24-2006, 05:13 AM
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclear01.jpg

ShadowM8
05-24-2006, 05:38 AM
WoW guys, amazing entries! Would be great if everyone were to post a little making off article, explaining their approach to the scene, and perhaps some tips and tricks learned.

I finally found some time tonight and started on my scene. Nothing special for now. For some reason I was really keen on this particular shot so I spend most of the time trying to draft the mood of the scene. Right now it's broken up into 3 passes (FG, volumic, and zdepth) I am relatively satisfied where this is heading, so next step would be to do further work on the shaders and hdr lighting.

C&C is welcomed and appreciated.

Cheers!

Freak!!
05-24-2006, 05:42 AM
Try getting your final image, before you post it, and put into photoshop or something and flip the image horizontally. Your brain won't recognise it and you'll be looking at your scene with a fresh pair of eyes.

Thanks, as soon Jeremy mentioned that light, is was so obvious...
But before that i could of stared at it all day and not even noticed...
I have fixed the light problem, and am doing a few more renders now.

Staring at the same renders, your eyes become unware of what they are looking at!
the obvious tends to become less so.... Changing the perspective or flipping, looking at something else tends to bring the perspective.. So thanks for the advice.

Yazan
05-24-2006, 08:22 AM
CO: You could put another flame object and set the surface to 500 luminosity and have it unseen by camera. That might give you stronger reflections. Nice one!

Yazan

IestynRoberts
05-24-2006, 09:38 AM
Thanks a lot for doing this Jeremy, it's a really good thread - I'm gonna give this challenge a try when i get home tonight.

Mike - that looks awsome! Excellent stuff.

ShadowM8 - that looks really nice - how did you manage to get the window to look so dirty? The handprint on it looks really cool.
-Iest

slipknot66
05-24-2006, 09:40 AM
Here is a first test with Maya|Mental Ray 3.4, using the l_glass shader2.

Buca
05-24-2006, 10:39 AM
...another Inspirer test

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/5898/bottle49xl.jpg

CaptainObvious
05-24-2006, 10:45 AM
That's looking good. I wish the candle lit the bottles a lot more, the windowframe seems to get all the light and not much candlelight hits the glass.

-jeremy
Could be because the bottles have NO diffuse whatsoever. :)




CO: You could put another flame object and set the surface to 500 luminosity and have it unseen by camera. That might give you stronger reflections. Nice one!

Yazan
Or just fix the flame in post. That works too. I had to do it anyway. ;)




Another update is on the way. This time with a brighter flame object and some diffuse on the bottles. And stochastic antialiasing instead of a 5x5 grid (still 25 samples per pixel, though). It might work better, and should render about as fast. I turned up the reflections on the glass as well.

dmonkey
05-24-2006, 10:52 AM
Nobody seems to think that the bottles are going to be dirty. I know this is a lighting challenge, but would all the bottles be so clean?

CaptainObvious
05-24-2006, 11:32 AM
Nobody seems to think that the bottles are going to be dirty. I know this is a lighting challenge, but would all the bottles be so clean?
I don't know about the rest of you, but the answer for me is that I'm too lazy to texture them. ;)

Jeff Dux
05-24-2006, 11:44 AM
Nobody seems to think that the bottles are going to be dirty. I know this is a lighting challenge, but would all the bottles be so clean?
thought about that too, even tried it but it just looked too fake.
maybe iīll try it again.
perhaps someone has some suggestions how to do it in max (e.g. what material to use, shellac? blend? ...)

elvis75k
05-24-2006, 12:40 PM
I think i'm done..
I had a lot of fun doing this challenge and i have something to tell ya:
with raytracing bottles, one can spend a lifetime tweaking all around
with things like ibl, colors, caustics and more and more..
If nobody stops you, you may continue over and over and over.
So i've decided to take the most with a "one click and go" -
a good balance between light, color, shadow and caustics.
There's no feeling of story or messages behind the look achieved by me (i know)
and you see there is no textures or some mesh add-on to give more power to the shot
(can't tell you why!) -

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3836/finaleb1ae.jpg



I've learned a bit to play with caustics, depth settings,
sample settings (even if some 'in glass reflection' are still noisy)
and once again to keep patience all the time high to wait results...

judgements/critiques c'mon

good luck everybody :)

jiversen
05-24-2006, 03:37 PM
Here is a quick entry; not much love put into this but it was fun to do...

(Houdini 8, with Mantra), raytracing, caustics, DOF, cpu cycles.

CaptainObvious
05-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Another update, but still the same concept. The DOF is made in Photoshop's built-in lens blur filter.

http://tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net/randomcrap/krayBottles6.jpg

Yazan
05-24-2006, 04:45 PM
CO: your image is requesting a user name and password
tegelstenclothes.mememachines.net

Yazan

Edit: Seems to be fixed. I like the image but there is something odd about the shadows. I just expect more light to be present. Maybe its just caustics? The dof is cool though.

CaptainObvious
05-24-2006, 04:52 PM
Should be fixed now.

Mike RB
05-24-2006, 06:11 PM
added a bump noise for more interesting refractions and reflections... and added some camera distortion.

modo 201
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botgreen01.jpg

Yazan
05-24-2006, 06:24 PM
This last one is my fav from the 201 renders you have, along side with Phil's. Whats the time on this last render?

Yazan

Mike RB
05-24-2006, 06:37 PM
about 30-40 mins, don't remember exactly

jeremybirn
05-24-2006, 06:47 PM
Those are great, Mike.

The fisheye one is one of your best, although for that much camera distortion I'd expect as slightly wider angle view (a little more convergence of the parallel lines.)

My other fav. of yours is this one:
http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botclose03.jpg

Maybe for variety now you can make some of them be dirty or dusty (with a diffuse response)?

-jeremy

ThirdEye
05-24-2006, 07:06 PM
one more from modo201, about an hour rendertime with a bit of CC in PS.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/bot8cc.jpg


best one so far, nice job Mike

Mike RB
05-24-2006, 07:20 PM
Maybe for variety now you can make some of them be dirty or dusty (with a diffuse response)?

-jeremy

Thanks, and this sounded like a good idea so I set-up a dusty material (brown diffuse, no spec, no reflection...) and layered it on top using a gradient as a mask. I set the gradient to use slope and tweaked the curve. I payed attention to the rendertime on this one and it was 19mins. Nice.

http://www.elementvfx.com/WebDemo/botgreen02.jpg