Discreet Ships combustion 2.1 at New Price $995

[dmeyer]

:eek:

Well it's good thing I paid a hella lot more than that for it. :annoyed:

Oh well, that's the way it goes. :shrug:

[Nicodemus]

I take they must be feeling the pinch from after effects.

[twilight]

strange though...
a couple of months ago discreet was claiming that they wouldn't lower their prices because they had the best software on the market and wouldn't follow the hype!

is it starting to hurt now, dear?

[Array]

actually the new price reflects the fact that the user can opt not to have media cleaner included in the package.

[Malameel]

With Cleaner, it costs $1495, still a hugh price drop.

[MaDSheeP]

well.. with Shake going out for windows.. eventually... and with Combustion being node based... is this going to take over a nitch?

i don't know a whole lot about Composition software, FX, etc etc.. so i'm not sure if there are others in this catagory... but.. has anyone thought of combustion possibly taking over the #1 spot for Windows?

[3danim8d]

I just wonder how long it will be before they drop the price on Max?

Max 5.1 & CS 4 for $1495 anyone?

[wgreenlee1]

...oooooooooooooo............sweet.
Could this be a trend for Discreet and associates?

[Labuzz]

I hope digital fusion will follow.

[ChickenPixel]

yes yes... good news..

Still not sure which is better AfterFX or Combustion...

[beaker]

>>I hope digital fusion will follow.

I doubt it, digital fusion is more in the range of shake then combustion. Combustion is missing a bunch of functionality that DF comes with by default. Nuke is comming out at 10k, so there is still plenty reason for DF to stay at 5k.

[Thalaxis]

Originally posted by MaDSheeP
well.. with Shake going out for windows.. eventually... and with Combustion being node based... is this going to take over a nitch?

i don't know a whole lot about Composition software, FX, etc etc.. so i'm not sure if there are others in this catagory... but.. has anyone thought of combustion possibly taking over the #1 spot for Windows?

Well, they have to compete with Digital Fusion (www.eyeonline.com), Nuke (www.d2software.com), and SideFX Halo (www.sidefx.com), in addition to AfterFX.

The compositing market seems to be getting more competitive now :)

[Thalaxis]

Originally posted by beaker
>>I hope digital fusion will follow.

I doubt it, digital fusion is more in the range of shake then combustion. Combustion is missing a bunch of functionality that DF comes with by default. Nuke is comming out at 10k, so there is still plenty reason for DF to stay at 5k.

What about DFX+?

I figure you're probably right about DF, but suddenly DFX+ looks overpriced since if you include the price of the modules, it is now close to 2.5 the price of Combustion and I don't think the render nodes are free, either.

[Northchild]

I'm still beginning with 3ds max and using PC art software; just starting to get to the character modeling tutorials and such that were included with the software. I've seen the Combustion page at Discreet but was wondering what the Combustion software means to you. I'm using the educational version of 3ds 5 now - is Combustion something that I will want to look into if I want to work as a game artist when I graduate?

Thanks. :)

[arvid]

c* is now a 10th of the price of Shake, I dont think they're playing the same ballgame anymore, but I really hope this will bring something positive!

so, any buzz on 2.1? :D

[StefanDidak]

Originally posted by twilight
strange though...
a couple of months ago discreet was claiming that they wouldn't lower their prices because they had the best software on the market and wouldn't follow the hype!

is it starting to hurt now, dear?

During that time some of Discreet's officials even made public statements saying that the price drop of Maya was a result of desperation and bad financial health. With that kind of narrow minded approach to marketing I find beauty in the irony that by their own definition this action qualifies them as "desperate and financially unhealthy". Claiming anything else would expose the company as keeping double standards and that'd be strange... :)

With a fairly saturated market it is the only sensible thing to do with your products unless you can show innovations that are worth the extra money for a higher priced approach. Regardless of the outcome in sales Discreet gains another advantage from this drop in price; a new 2.1 is substantially cheaper than an upgrade from 1 to 2, thereby enticing existing users to buy a whole new copy instead of an upgrade. That's nice because then they can add the sale to the 'total seats' and 'total sales' figures (because the rule is that upgrades aren't counted as such). That in turn increases the goodwill value based on 'total seats' which is one of those things a company would want to have and keep at a high level if, for instance, you would want to sell out a division, or a product in a potential acquisition. On top of that a company can amortize part of the goodwill value in the books, thereby gaining a minor financial break.

Clever.... but rather transparent, as far as strategies go. :)

[Fozzie]

I see we have the typical song and dance routine from Stefan on the subject (there are some things in this world you can always depend upon). But regardless of whatever reason people want to pin onto this new price reduction at the end of the day it is a good thing for the end users and there is no disputing that. We all know that Combustion is a really powerful program and at its new pricetag it is an valuable asset to add to your collection of tools (at any price)... its just that now we have less of an excuse not to have it :)

Foz

[StefanDidak]

I see we've got the typical marketing mumbo on the subject! But thanks for the compliment about being dependable. :thumbsup:

However, I do agree that it's great that users can be able to buy C* at the new rock-bottom price, unless or until End-Of-Life letters start to appear, that is (given how Discreet considered huge price drops to be a potential risk to continuity). Then again, for $995 who'd care about such a minor inconvenience since you can always replace it and repeat the learning curve again.

[KiboOst]

I can't understand what some of you seems to think that price drop go with discontinuity. It follow the market, that's all. A friend of mine discuss with some Discreet guys a few months ago, and they ever know that C* will be at that price. Their intention is to clearly killing AE (and sure Ae is died now héhé). The precedent offer C+cleaner was more to sell cleaner licences than combustion, because the price drop was even here.
Anyway, they also spoke about the futur Combustion3 which should arrive around may/june.

Combustion ruled, rules, and will rule !!

Kib

[StefanDidak]

Originally posted by KiboOst
I can't understand what some of you seems to think that price drop go with discontinuity.

It's not too difficult to understand, but putting it as simple as "price drop = discontinuity" is too easy. For me it's just a hunch based on how history tends to repeat itself within Autodesk, wherby good products (or product groups) undergo a sudden change (whether it be in price, management, ownership, etc.) prior to a discontinuation (Edit, being a good example, Frost being another one).

I combine with that the views its management kept regarding price drops (e.g. saying that Discreet would never drop prices on their solutions for reasons of not wishing to devalue the assets of customers), yet there are virtually no such complaints from users who paid the full price. Given that the Edit users were a much smaller base with a louder voice it stands to reason that C* hasn't sold all that great (and dealers easily substantiate that fact in casual talks), it indicates a price drop is based on inability to market or sell. So while A|W got labeled as "going down in flames and executing a final desperate move" by those same officials I can't help but notice there's either a double standard or earlier statements were just based on lack of insight.

Similarly Discreet officials have said at times that dropping prices would lead to a lack of innovation and R&D, yet with most of that already canceled it seems they are eating their own former statements and copping out on the perceived arrogance, or perhaps they have wised up and finally decided to do something right for a change (which may be easier these days after getting rid of their VP of Product Mgmt. after having an unfortunate legal bump with me) :)

In short, my view on it is that if a company starts to sway their own strategy and statements they are either getting their act together or are as desperate as they once claimed others were. With the Discreet that I know, I assume the latter and thus would not be all too surprised if an unssuccessful attempt leads to inadvertent discontinuation. So while the price drop is certainly interesting it doesn't inspire much hope for it at this time since it will now have to prove itself in sales, based on a substantially risky drop, before there can be any conclusion on its success.

[KiboOst]

Yes of course, but sometimes we simply shouldn't listen to what discreet and other company says. Discreet is well known for its arrogance no ? So why listen them ? I love their product, but for example 3dsmax has don't do anything innovative for a while and it's a shame precisely for customers to let it at this price. It would be ore sense to drop it's price, and wouldn't mean discontinuity at all, just put it back into the competition. But let's see what will happens on this road...

[beaker]

There has also been other events that have lead people to believe that C* was being discontinued. Like when they closed down the santa monica office and none of the programmers for it moved to the canadian office and combustion was put in maintanence mode and edit was canned at the same time. Then all these rumors about Toxic replacing C* on windows because turnkey systems is where the money is at(and then rumors that it was being canceled soon after they showed it at NAB as strata/mezzo). Just alot of uncertainty floating around.

[KiboOst]

Talking with some Discreet guys, I've heard that Discreet want to go entirely under windows platform and get ride of silicongraphic, which live actually with governement money. That's why stratta/mezzo will be windows based. And once more C3 is currently under developement ,-)

Kib

[beaker]

>>I've heard that Discreet want to go entirely under windows platform and get ride of silicongraphic, which live actually with governement money.

This doesn't make sense because first, they bought 5d Cyborg and Commander and burried them under big rock. Cyborg is on windows, could easily run under linux/windows here and now and allready has an audience.

Second the render nodes they are comming out with for FFI are on linux, not windows.

Third, before Toxic came out everyone was saying it was Flame on windows. When Discreet showed it off at NAB as strata/mezzo they insisted that it was not a flame replacement but instead aimed at more of a media management/3d/2d/compositing(if they really want to replace flame on windows, they would market it that way). It just came out looking like a way too unfocused product, like they wanted it to do everything, but no one wants to spend 100-200k on a less focused product because you buy expensive products for specific task, not pie in the sky do everything product. Last thing you want is a 200k product that you needs 3-5 different people fighting over to run because it's use is too spread out.

[dmeyer]

Originally posted by KiboOst
. And once more C3 is currently under developement

:buttrock:

Discreet: See this thread...

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35223

[StefanDidak]

Originally posted by beaker
Then all these rumors about Toxic replacing C* on windows because turnkey systems is where the money is at(and then rumors that it was being canceled soon after they showed it at NAB as strata/mezzo). Just alot of uncertainty floating around.

Most of the stuff regarding Toxik was the result of Discreet's own inability to communicate properly, combined with rapidly changing plans and strategies under a situation of consolidations and layoffs. It's no surprise there were like seven different flavors of those rumors if Paul L. makes statements of a shipping target at NAB, then follows up by laying off some 60 folks in R&D directly involved with it, then retracting the statement by indicating a much later shipping target, and then at IBC personally claiming yet something else again. That doesn't seem like a company that's on a stable course so it doesn't surprise me all those rumors pop up.

[StefanDidak]

Originally posted by KiboOst
Talking with some Discreet guys, I've heard that Discreet want to go entirely under windows platform and get ride of silicongraphic, which live actually with governement money.
Kib

That makes no sense at all for two reasons. Their high-end (i.e. financially bigger spenders) customers are not Windows-minded and would prefer Linux solutions instead. And secondly, if what you say was true it would mean that Discreet's officials have been lying to those same customers about their dedication and commitment to SGI based solutions. Either way it doesn't compute properly; a large part of the R&D team that was laid off were mainly *nix experienced engineers but have not been replaced with Windows experienced engineers. Though I won't complain about that since we managed to employ a number of people who unfortunately lost their jobs that way. :)

I can't see Discreet go back on their statement of dedicaction unless they want to seriously loose all credibility and goodwill in the industry that they depend on to create an identity and reputation for their systems products and I won't mention what I hear from Discreet staff and former colleagues because I don't wan to betray any personal trust issues and I doubt anyone is interested in hearing moaning and groaning about lack of leaderhips and uneasy feelings about job security and future, etc.

[Nando]

StefanDidak

Heyas!!

Ive been trying to figure out fort months what you folks at mantiCORE are working on.
You guys gona give us a sneak peek anytime soon? :D
Ive heard good things, but nothing concrete.
;)

Nando

[StefanDidak]

Originally posted by Nando
Ive been trying to figure out fort months what you folks at mantiCORE are working on. You guys gona give us a sneak peek anytime soon? :D Ive heard good things, but nothing concrete.
;)


mantiCORE is making progress in the R&D of 64-bit sweater knitting. :) But seriously, it'll be a while yet before there'll be things on public display (which is also partly due to the long term aspects and the base platforms being used).

It's a bit odd to be under veils so much but it's mainly because what the company does is provide R&D and technology for other parties (commercial, proprietary, and mill...*cough*) that go their own commercial route. The only early results that are visible and out there were certain aspects of a new realtime VSet system ("Scenario XR") that was shown at NAB and launched at IBC last year.

We're more or less a privately owned and independent R&D group that has no (and wishes no) direct involvement in sales, marketing, etc. yet does assist in that where needed. The founding and funding has mostly been caused by other companies (not all in the 3D field) that over the past year or two have shrunk their own R&D efforts, making mC more or less a self-supporting micro-economy in a shape that allows people to be motivated by doing what they love to do without the usual commercial pressure that often requires the wrong kind of compromises to be made. The only compromise is that some 15% of all efforts go towards more mundane projects since that helps to keep things in balance. :)

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