Jackie Chan model - redone

[Grosserfrosch]

You should watch his movies again or get a couple of really good recent pictures and memorize the placement of scars and the broken line of his nose. As it is, the face is too unblemished. I like the hair.

[Cryo_RO]

hey , thanks , i haven't thought abot the scars , i'll take a real good look at some of his bigger photos to see where they are.
I will probably add the smaller scars when i map him , there is no use to model them. Oh and by the way , i haven't really done any human face textures , so does anyone here have some pointers for me? like what kind of maps i should use (spec, bump, etc)
I really want to make this model as close to Jackie as possible
so of course the question is , when you take a short look at him , do you immediatly recognise him as jackie?
if not , why? :surprised

(damn , typing with one hand is hard)

[nanabaky]

uhuh, let's see him practicing face-to-foot style :p

[azazel]

Make the rest of him and animate him...that would be the challenge ;)

Seems he is to young, and I do not recognize him immediately,
here's photos:
http://www.clasalle-tunis.com/sebai/chan-jackie-photo-jackie-chan-6200183%5B1%5D.jpg

http://ireadfaces.com/sptanlys/px/jackie%20chan%20bw.jpg

Face seems to be too wide and too "soft", lips need some tweaking. Nose needs to be bigger and rounder. And he needs to be smiling - that's essential for him.

Hair is very nice.

Nice subject of modelling...
:thumbsup:

[nanabaky]

and here how many years old do you think he is ? :p

http://nanabaky.free.fr/gogojackie.jpg

(it's not my fault !! it's in the excellant movie "Magnifique" !!)

[Cryo_RO]

Thanks for the replies guys , i just saw Master with cracked fingers today , one of his first movies , it's really funny , and has a lot of old school fighting. So i was in the mood to continue the model a bit today :D

I worked on the nose and tried to add in some more detail overall to his face (but i still have lots more to add) , and i also tried to fix up the mouth a little bit.
And you were right azazel , he needs to be smiling it adds a lot to his character , and i'm woriking on that just now

[D7X]

very good modelling, i recognised his features :) if you can animate him like a 3d jackie chan clip I saw i will be gobsmacked :D

[Cryo_RO]

you saw a 3d jackie chan clip??? where?? :curious:

here's a side view

[azazel]

Yeah, mouth should be bigger I think. And there's something wrong with eyelids, there should be some loose skin there.

Now he's more recogniseable :)

[Blackassheep]

Make the nose a bit wider and spread the eyes out maybe a tad more. Nice work.

[king of tartine]

Very good!:bounce:

[D7X]

Originally posted by Cryo_RO
you saw a 3d jackie chan clip??? where?? :curious:

here's a side view

damn sorry I had J.C. on the brain, I meant bruce lee *bows head in shame*

[Bezerker75]

looking nice...how did you do the hair?I am working on a character at work and they want it to have hair...and I have tried a few different techniques without any great results...any tips or pointers would be great...thanks
:thumbsup:

[gnarlycranium]

Hey, I think I remember that other Jackie Chan thread of yours-- and it looks like you've come a long way with the model since then! It's really getting to be human-shaped! The lips seem too thin, though... post us up a wire wouldya, so we can help you out with the mesh?

[Cryo_RO]

Thanks for all of your replies , i haven't had a lot of time to work on Jackie lately only to add in a few more details , and i think i'm almost done , i just need to model in a few of his larger wrinkels ,and i think i still need to tweak him to look more like Jackie overall.
Bezerker75: I did the hair with shag:hair , and the eyebrows with fur , the model is done in max 4 , if you need any help with shag , i'll be glad to help you out
D7X: i do plan to animate him , that's why i need to model in some wrinkels , because his face is pretty wrinkeled when he's smiling (and he almost always is :D )
And another thing , does anyone know of any tutorials on how to do a realistic human skin texture and shader? i'm pretty much clueless right now
and here's what my model looks like right now (i'll change his hairstye soon)

[Cryo_RO]

Gnarly Cranium: Here's a wire shot
sorry about the bad quality

[gnarlycranium]

Ahah! You've got some work to do-- but afterwards, your life will be a LOT easier!

Check out this thread here (http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26813). That shows a basic layout of how to organize a head mesh. Pay special attention to how the lines flow-- around the eyes, around the mouth, down the nose, and from the sides of the nose down across the cheek to the jaw. You need to reorganize Jackie's head so it looks rather more like that, and get rid of 3- and 5- sided polys-- this will take some time, but afterwards your model will be much more intuitive and easy to work with. Wrestling a model with bad topology into the shape of a recognizable head is next to impossible-- you've done very well with what you've got.

Be sure to make a backup copy before you start messing with it, so you don't screw up and loose the shape. If you have problems or questions with how to start, lemme know, I like helpin with heads! :D

[Cryo_RO]

Yeah i really should clean up my mesh , i've been meaning to do this for a while , but i always said i'd do it later :)
But yeah i think i'll start cleaning it up today , i've gotten to the point where my mesh has these wierd distorsions because of it.
Well i think i'll be able to clean up the mesh by my self , but if i'll encounter any problems i'll consider your offer :thumbsup:
oh and i'll also post an update soon
and... anyone got some texturing tips???

[Cryo_RO]

Heh cleaned up the mesh a little , and worked on his nose & mouth
So here's an update , and next to it is one of Jackie's pictures for comparison
i left the hair out this time
i really need some crits..

[gnarlycranium]

Looks like the jaw and the nose are coming along great! Something's bugging me about the lips, but I can't say what just yet. The chin is almost right on... just need to flesh out the sides of the jaw where the lines from the nose come down across the cheek to connect... The part that needs the most work is around the eyes.

[aftahours]

Looks excellent. Only thing I think you can work on is making the cheeks have a bit more fat in them, so they stand out...not too much tho otherwise it will look stupid, just a tiny bit. And the mouth looks excellent but a little more work prolly still has to be done to make it look more like jackies. :)

Good luck man!

[nanabaky]

I think the only thing a litlle wrong is the eyelid, I mean it doesn't look like asian eyelid. Note the kind of pad above it. All of the rest is excellent ;) congratulations. Now needs just a good texture ^^

[Cryo_RO]

Thanks for all the crits and nice words guys , i'm glad you like the model , nice words is what keeps me going (that and jackie chan movies :D )
I know the eyelids are all wrong , that's my biggest problem now , i just can't make them look like jackie's , they still need some more work
I hope i can finish the modeling tomorow, if i can fix those eyelids that is
then it's texturing... ugh... :arteest:

[Cryo_RO]

Ok so modeling is mostly done , and i also played with the hair around a bit more , i still have to redo his eyebrows though.
I'd like to begin texturing him so if you have any crits , let's hear them asap :bounce:
so here's the render

[Cryo_RO]

and another one

[Cryo_RO]

hrmmm... almost 2 weeks and no replies :annoyed:
well anyway , here is the final model
enjoy

[Tommi]

Well, obviously he isn't finished - fix the the line in the middle of his face, make some nice textures... looks very great though! :thumbsup:

[Cryo_RO]

Heh well what i meant to say was that the modeling was done , of course i'll weld the two halves together and texture him , and add some nice hair of course

[Tommi]

Originally posted by Cryo_RO
Heh well what i meant to say was that the modeling was done , of course i'll weld the two halves together and texture him , and add some nice hair of course

LOL... mhm sniff... okay...:D

Looking forward to see him finished!

[nervous_twitch]

I think it looks great. That is a fine resemblance to Jackie Chan. The ears look a little odd, but everyone's ears are different, so maybe they are fine.

:thumbsup:

[Trickster]

will you be doing the eyelids later... cos it's still abit odd! and i think that the profile is good but the nose... i think... jackie's nose is much more deeper than out.

[monkeysweat]

Jackie Chan rules!!!! Are you going to try to animate...good luck getting his moves without MOCAP. Your model look great, can't wait to see it finished.

[Cryo_RO]

Here's my attept at making Jackie smile ,i'm not really happy with it yet , but i'm working on it
I'm doing this smile test just to see if the mesh is ready for texturing , i want to give him some expressions when he's ready , not that neutral expression i see on most models

[lapin]

Wow !
I love Jackie Chan !! lol
Need a good texture … waiting if finish !

[Cryo_RO]

lapin :heh i sure hope i can give it a cool texture
here's another shot

[elvis75k]

yes... whoa!! But if you plan to skin your model i suggest to put a twice bone set!!! haha:p

[Cryo_RO]

Final Model
now i guess it's texturing time :scream:

[Cryo_RO]

close-up render with skylight

[Cryo_RO]

after a long break from this model i finally decided to texture it
this is what i've got untill now
opinions/crits needed

[gnarlycranium]

Cool! Lookin more Jackie-ish all the time! Somethin about the shape of his lower lip is bugging me, but apart from that it's pretty darn good!

Looks like the texture is just starting out, not much to say about that-- but you will definitely need to do something about the shader itself. It's got that copper-head look. Check out Stahlberg's skin tutorial on 3dFestival, it explains quite a bit about how the skin reacts to light. You'll want to give it a blueish specular, and put in a ramp to add red to the colors near the edges of where light shines on it (if you're not using an app that can do SSS).

[Cryo_RO]

well i'm working in max 5 , and the thing is that i don't know how to do SSS , do i need brasil for that?
I saw Stahlberg's tutorial , it's really good , but there are some parts of it that i don't know how to adapt for max
well i'll keep trying to work something out for the shader

[Cryo_RO]

no one replies , meh....
but i'm not giving up yet :p
I didn't have a lot of time to work on the skin shader, i only did some small tweaks ,but I gave him eyebrows and hair , and also added a comparison photo of the real jackie

http://snow.prohosting.com/cryoror/jackie_comp.jpg

try to give me some crits and opinions , i REALLY need them

edit:copy and paste the link into you browser

[gnarlycranium]

I dunno a darn thing about SSS either, myself... :shrug: Brazil can do it, I don't know if MAX 5 can do it by itself... maybe, not sure.

I know Stahlberg's tutorial is difficult to translate, but some of the basic stuff still applies. Couple recommendations-- make the specular color a little bit blue. Right now it looks pink. He's got that copper thing going on. Then lightly mix the base skin color with a gradient ramp that goes from light to reddish-orange to dark-- a light/shadow gradient ramp, that is. That will add warmth to the transitions between the cooler areas where the light is hitting, and the warmer parts where the edges of the light are. Notice the highlights on his face in the photo are a bit yellow, you can get that with the blue specular. Also, make the skin material a Raytrace material so you can put in a weee bit of Translucency-- not much, just a little.

I would also really recommend fixing that lower lip-- it's too sharply poofy, should be softer.

Coming along great, it seriously looks like him! :cool:

[nanabaky]

i think he has a skin a little more yellow and flashy.

You need to detail the mouth and the area around the eyes. Add some veins and pores and also moderated colours (from dark red to light yellow). Just refer to the photo (or imagine where he could have scraped on when he was a teenager).

The skin misses "life", but it's due to so small and insinifiants details... Texturing a realistic head is so difficult and I still very like you model :thumbsup: !

[Cryo_RO]

Hey , thanks for all the crits & tips guys , it got a little more spare time for Jackie today , so here is another update with details added and a little better shader (i hope) , rendered without hair for shorter render times
It still has that nasty copper look , but i'm working on it

Thanks for all those tips gnarly , you're a great help :thumbsup: ,i played a little with those gradient ramps and got some mixed results , i'l have to look more into them

http://snow.prohosting.com/cryoror/Texture_05.jpg
copy & paste into your browser

[Cryo_RO]

yet another little shader update
i still need to put some details on the skin , especially in the eye area , but i don't have a lot of time :annoyed:

http://snow.prohosting.com/cryoror/Texture_06.jpg

[azazel]

I see 404 error only:annoyed:

[Cryo_RO]

try copying the link into your browser

[Cryo_RO]

no replies :thumbsdow , i was hoping for more feedback so i know what you don't like about my model

Here is yet another skin texture update , one of the last i think since i'm kinda done with texturing unless somebody sees something wrong with it
I rendered him with hair this time
so then , what do you think about the skin ?? i really need some opinions
oh and how much do you think the model looks like jackie?

[frameless]

Hey he looks pretty good now! great work. Exept of the eye brows...i think there have to be a bit more hair. But thats my only crit here. Keep working on this model:thumbsup:

[nanabaky]

yeah good, now just try a kind of ambience lighted scene, just to see how the shadows hang on the model...

But the skin looks very good :)

[gnarlycranium]

Wow, hey, that sucker is really coming along-- instantly recognizable now. Now give him pores! :cool:

[Ian Christie]

Simply amazing, the last pic there looks virtually perfect :beer:

[theartspark]

The eyes look a little small.

[DevonH]

you need to do a lot of work with the eyes. You should finish the model before you texture it. If you start thinking that it isn't done, try working on something else for a day or so, then come back to it, and all the flaws will fly out at you.

[Cryo_RO]

Replies!! cool :)
i didn't do any more work on the model but i posted a zoomed out shot below
the hair definatley needs some more work , and i'll be giving him an upper body as soon as i have some spare time

Gnarly: i'll try giving him some pores but i'm not really sure on how to make them , probably in the spec and bump maps , right?

DevonH: What is wrong with the eyes? what should i fix? be a little more specific please :thumbsup:

Channa: yeah the eyes look a little small in that render , but trust me , they are the right size , below i attched an image with his whole face rendered , and you can see the eyes don't look so small anymore

I'm really gald you guys like my model , i was getting the feeling nobody liked it , heh , thanks
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Cryo_RO]

Started the body today , still very early WIP

[gnarlycranium]

To really be able to help with the eyes (and I still say the lips need some work too) we'd need to see what your wireframe looks like now, I think.

You're really cranking along, at any rate-- the hair doesn't look too bad to me, though something definitely needs to be done about the eyebrows.

As for pores... well, I've never done texturing, but I'm assuming you'd put little dark specks where they go all over the nose and cheeks and the like, in the color and bump and specular maps.... or something of that sort.

[Cryo_RO]

Here's a wire Gnarly , i hope you can spot the errors in the eyes , and the lips too , although i think i know what's wrong with the lower one
I'll try fixing those eyebrows , i just need to tweak some values in shag
I'm going to try to give him pores as well , i think i kinda get the idea about how they are done , if i get any good results i'll be sure to post :D
well here's the wire
copy&paste into your browser
http://snow.prohosting.com/cryoror/wire.jpg

[gnarlycranium]

You'll need to post a closeup of the wire around the eyes for us to see what's going on with that... but I can pick out quite a few other things.

First off, great job-- you've come MILES since that first wire, this really looks tons better, you're getting the right idea! :cool:

But lemme guess, you've got way too dense cheeks, and all kinds of confusion around the corner of the jaw, right?

I've done a wee bit of a paintover-- the yellow dots are problem areas you'll need to fix. I'd suggest separating a few of the spots where edges run together on the nose, for more vertical rows. Also, run the extra brow-details farther up onto the forehead. Keep in mind, though 5-sided Ngons can be tolerated and even tris sometimes, 6-sided Ngons, or poles with 6 edges coming together are a pretty big nono.

Don't worry about trying to keep a vertical/horizontal flow on the sides of the face-- make the edges follow the curves of how the face will wrinkle and move when he makes faces. I've put in some red lines to sortof suggest how you might change the flow-- you will end up needing to take care of an awkward junction at the front of the cheek, it takes some puzzling to fix, but in the end you ought to be able to make the mesh simpler.

[Cryo_RO]

wow Gnarly , thanks a lot for all those crits!
Fixing the face mesh won't be easy , especiallt now that he's textured , but i'll definatley see what i can do , you're right , those lines need to folow the contour of the face
Meanwhile i've worked a bit more on the body adding some details
I'm still experimenting with the pores , no good results yet

[Cryo_RO]

I fixed the head mesh a bit and got rid of a whole lot of extra polygons i didn't need , it works much better now :bounce:
And i also attached the head to his (still wip) upper body
here's a shot
wireframe coming soon

[Cryo_RO]

another shot

[Cryo_RO]

wire shot of the head
i'm still not done fixing the mesh (obviously) :D
http://snow.prohosting.com/cryoror/wire2.jpg
(copy&paste)

[gnarlycranium]

Whoa! That's just rocking more and more as you go along!

Only crit I can think of right now with these funky views is maybe his navel is too big.... and keep in mind Jackie is only 5'10", and has a very compact build, maybe the torso could be scaled down just a teeeny bit.

The head mesh is looking MUCH better! There's still some weirdness happening around the nose, and the jaw could be reworked a little-- but his cheek and the area around his eye looks great!

[JonasNoell]

Howly crap, it is REALLY looking like Chackie Chan! Good work :thumbsup:

[Cryo_RO]

Gnarly: I didn't make his navel any bigger , but maybe it is too big , i'll have to chek
you're right about the body size , the torso should be a little smaller , Jackie is pretty short
I'm still working on the head mesh , i'll have to fix those areas you mentioned , especially the area around the jaw , and the neck area as well
I'm also going to retexture him , since the one i did the first time was kinda my first true head texture and i larned a lot , maybe i'll get some better results the second time around

cANT: Thanks , i'm gald you like him :thumbsup:

[gnarlycranium]

That texture was looking pretty darn good too-- better results next time around will be a scary thing!! :cool:

It's so great to see ya running with all this stuff, pretty soon I won't be able to help you anymore, I'll just be tryin to keep you from showin me up! :D

:bounce: Speaking of progress-- if you've got a minute, Cryo_RO, check out the Malformed Heads link in my signature. It'd be TOTALLY awesome if you would be interested in participating in that project-- some before/after comparisons of your really old head mesh (the one you posted the FIRST time in the other thread) and what you're ending up with now would be a GREAT example!

[Cryo_RO]

sure thing Gnarly , my pleasure :)

[Cryo_RO]

another lil' update with some rough hair & eyebrows
just click on the link below
http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=32680

[azazel]

Looks good:thumbsup:

some crits:
- his biceps look a bit wrong,
- as I remember from his movies, Jackie's rather "wiry", not smooth - maybe define muscles a bit more, but don't overdo it.

Keep it up :wip:

[Cryo_RO]

update


http://www.visualart.ro/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=33270

[Raul-Reznek]

starting to look very good! :D

i think u should change the render tho

[nanabaky]

yeah cool progress, you are evolving in a good way, i think, keep it on !

[Cryo_RO]

i didn't have any time to work on jackie untill today , so here is the 90% final upperbody and face

and also here is a little test animation of jackie smiling that i did to see how the face mesh deforms

http://angelfire.lycos.com/ex/cryo/Jackie05.avi (30k ; divx 5.02)

i'm also putting jackie on hold for a while , i want to work on something else

[Cryo_RO]

it's been pretty long since my last update since i've been very busy and didn't have any time to work on Jackie lately
i did get some spare time this weekend though and started doing his pants and kung fu shoes , as well as working on his torso a bit more

comments are greatly apreciated

[nanabaky]

aaah it still looks pretty good ! from that point of view his arms looks very short and fine... But i suppose it's due to the camera angle. pants and shoes are ok, nothing to change i think. i really wanna see it full finish !!!!

[Takushii]

i think he's a little too fat , but keep up the work !!!

[ua858]

the model is really good. be honest. he doesn't look like jacky chan. Jacky has a big nose.

[FabioMSilva]

remember that the jackie of nowadays is alot older and a bit more fat. Also his nose has lots of curves and its not so fat/thick as u´ve modeled yours.

try www.jackiechan.com

or was it www.jackie-chan.com ?

i dunno...well it shouldnt be too hard to find decent pictures of him tought...

but the model is going fine..maybe in a near future we will see your cg jackie being used by the Real jackie chan as his Cg-Double? :D (lol i forgot jackie never uses doubles...thats why is movies are so cool! lol)

[Cryo_RO]

The Solid Snake: yeah Jackie never used any doubles , but he's pretty old now (i think almost 50) and said he'd cosider using some CG special effects for his stunts , but CG can never replace those crazy stunts he did himself , too bad , jackie movies will never be the same
oh and about reference pics , i think i've got more that 100 of them :eek:

ua858: yeah he's got a pretty big nose , and i'm still working on it ,the nose infact is what gives me all the trouble , i can't make it look like jackie's , that's because it's pretty curved from all of the times it's been broken , just like solid said

Takushii: too fat? well maybe a little bit... but that's because i haven't gotten to really adding all of the details of the torso

well thanks for all of your responses guys , i'll work on him some more once i have some spare time :thumbsup:

[Cryo_RO]

oh btw this is what jackie looks like with hair :D

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