New Versions are Up (2.4c)

[Taron333]

Here are a list of changes and bug fixes for the 2.4c version:

autosave - multiple auto save files are possible now (up to 100, default
is 10.)
incremental scene saving - save fxs or mpj file incrementally. The new
scene will automatically be incremented by one, so if the original was
myscene0001.fxs the new one will be myscene0002.fxs.
object sequence loading added to dmorph. The surfaces will remain
the same as those of the base object you applied the dmorph to. This
is handy if you have an object, which has been textured in messiah.
When the object is replaced, the texturing will remain intact.
fixed double armature load upon program start
material nodes will not be partially transparent any more obscuring
the node text on certain graphics cards when they overlap
fixed the problem of the mat tray selecting the next material down,
when you delete a shader from a material, and it's the only shader left.
fixed the problem with making a gradient and going into the light block
and when you double click a light the block would collapse.
the view no longer changes focus to the first view, when saving, or auto
save is activated, and you're in a quad or double view.
cylindrical map fliped on x fixed as well as the rotation assignment
problem.
particles - Now able to choose NULLS in particle slave popup.
material copy - connections to material inputs are preserved when a
copy material happens.
particle emitter now has visual guides for type (cone, box, plane).
spot light cone can be seen when looking through the spot light as a
camera object.
graph now zooms with the current frame marker as the center, instead
of the left edge of the graph.
min max can be set for the viewport sliders.
correct list item is selected after a delete of the last of it's child items.
reactivated GI lighting from transparent objects.
inactive keys remain inactive, even after being moved in time and
selection.
fix to self shadow from no cast shadows, and GI from transparent
objects.
fixed chunk files overwritting each other, when 2 messiahs are run
on the same machine.
fixed the background image not being scaled to the same fit, as the
new viewport camera recticle fitting.
image sequence texture color should behave properly now

[DMack]

Cool! Great to see things really are progressing at a pace!Keep it up PMG!

[Wireframes]

Very good news !

Thanks Taron

[AlexK]

Great news!!! Keep it up guys. Woohoo!! :bounce: :bounce:

[biliousfrog]

strewth!....you really are working hard to keep us happy, thanks.

[Panikos]

Thank you, Gracias, Danke, Merci beaucoup, Ευχαριστώ

[Nichod]

Great news!

[Gyuru]

woot. woot. Out of curiosity do you guys uninstall 2.4b? I mean does 2.4c cover all the problems that 2.4b does also?

[Adam-Han]

Thanks guys! :scream:

[rush123]

Thanks pmG :thumbsup:

[ThomasHelzle]

:thumbsup: It feels really great to see promisses kept like that. :thumbsup:
For me, this is even more important than the great update.

Thank you so much for the hard work! :bowdown:

:thumbsup:

P.S. Gyuru: 2.4c contains all fixes from 2.4b. Anything else wouldn't make sense. If 2.4b would have different bugs fixed than 2.4c you would have to switch between them for different things ;) But I normally leave some older versions installed until I'm sure the new one didn't introduce something funny or for testing purposes.

[Panikos]

Taron, Fred !
Why dont you put the HASP Installer as an option to the Custom Installation ?
Every time there is an update, I have to be very careful with the HASP not to install it twice.

Thanks

[MoodyB]

:bounce:

2 updates in 5 weeks !

:bounce:

[dobermunk]

Great stuff! Will delve into this asap (unfortunately - tomorrow :-( )

A question for ease of getting all my assets into these new versions:
I've tried getting my plug-ins into a sub-folder titled "additional" but they are then not recognized by messiah. So I just copy/paste them. No prob.
But I'd like a way to simplify the other assets ie.: materials and scripts. Gets a bit tedious checking to see what's been updated so as not to overwrite goodness.
How are the rest of you going about this?

[maks]

Hey, first of all: thanks! :thumbsup: Lots of nice things in there, and those slider channel limits - mmmmmh, finally :) Now, to take this to another level, how about having such channel limits for *all* items - that would be a killer :D

Unfortunately I seem to have a little OGL glitch again with this patch: whenever I double click something in the list view, to edit the name, all the text first gets selected, but when I want to place my cursor somewhere inside the text, or select portions of the text, the field gets validated instead of beeing able to edit anything. I hope my explanation makes sense...

Now, I'd also like to profit from this occasion to renew an old, much needed feature request, since our production is in a situation where this would be needed really badly, and there's no workaround that would be a real option for the kind of things we have to do: real Dynamic Parenting *IN PLACE*, aka DynaPIP, and/or general Constraint Compensation, combined with blendable constraints, as in XSI! This is something that is so often needed in character animation, for interaction between characters and objects etc. - please please please, can you make this a high priority feature on your list for the next update...! :D:bowdown:

[ThomasHelzle]

dobermunk: yes, subfolder recognition for plugins and scripts etc. would be great to make organization easier. I vote for it :)
I only copy my own materials over which I have in separate folders already so nothing should be lost.

BTW. I found that I still get the "focus jumping to the next material when deleting nodes" in 2.4c although this is meant to be fixed if I understand the release notes correctly. It seems to be dependent on the (creation-?) order of nodes somehow - it doesn't happen for all nodes.

Maks: Works fine here? Any special circumstances?

Thanks again! :bowdown:

[maks]

Maks: Works fine here? Any special circumstances?



Nope, no special circumstances, and 2.4b works fine...
Geforce 6800 GS, Forceware 83.40 - I might try other drivers...

[ThomasHelzle]

I have drivers 84.21 running with no problems so far.
Are you sure it is OpenGL related?
Did you test it on another machine?

I will try my ATI-Laptop later today...

Cheers and greetings to munich :)

[dobermunk]

real Dynamic Parenting *IN PLACE*, aka DynaPIP, and/or general Constraint Compensation, combined with blendable constraints, as in XSI! This is something that is so often needed in character animation, for interaction between characters and objects etc. - please please please, can you make this a high priority feature on your list for the next update...!

Yeah. What Maks said. Keep the great work up!

[maks]

I have drivers 84.21 running with no problems so far.
Are you sure it is OpenGL related?
Did you test it on another machine?

I will try my ATI-Laptop later today...

Cheers and greetings to munich :)

Actually not sure if it's OGL, just a guess... Just tried it on my laptop with an ATI 9200, and it does the same thing: double click an item in the item list (or an expression in the expression list) to make the name editable, then click anywhere inside the name to position the text cursor, or to select only parts of the name - here it validates (deselects) everything as soon as I click the second time.
But: I just noticed that if I don't click the second time, but use the arrow keys to move the text cursor, it works... So, not that much of a problem, but strange nonetheles :shrug:
Cheers from Munich :beer: ;-)

[catizone]

Thanks for the update...and maybe a minor issue.

Is it just me, or can anyone else move the edit sphere in two directions in the Left/Right windows? In front/back,top/bottom/, and perspective, I can move in more than one axis at a time. But in L/R I just can't seem to activate more than one direction.

Obviously not a huge deal, but it does take two moves to move something, as opposed to one.

Best,
Rick

[Geco]

thanks for the update! :)
... But in L/R I just can't seem to activate more than one direction. ...hello Rick,
try to change to Screen Coordinates (bottom right of the World View)

[catizone]

Thanks. Guess that didn't occur to me; but why is it only in Left/Right ports that it doesn't work with ?

Best,
Rick

[WoodyLWG]

Thank you pmG for the hard work! Good to see the wheels turning. :thumbsup:

[Geco]

Thanks. Guess that didn't occur to me; but why is it only in Left/Right ports that it doesn't work with ?

Best,
Ricki don't know, it's a mystery for me too.
i would like too not to have to switch the coordinate system every time i work in the side view.

perhaps someone at pmG can give an answer.

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, from day one of using messiah, I felt that the whole EditSphere idea isn't really good.
For me, it is the most painful manipulation gadget on the market.
The basic idea isn't that bad, but in the end, I prefer the classical approach with 3 different key-shortcuts for move, rotate and scale, especially if it is implemented like in XSI where you just hold down the key as long as you need it ("Supra Mode"): Select something (with the left mouse key) press "V" to move the object around with 3 arrow handles that are just perfectly logical, release the "V" key and be back in your last mode before pressing it - in this case selection.
I am 10 times faster in XSI than in messiah.

If I had to vote, I would get rid of the edit sphere like yesterday.
I just hate it.

Sorry, I don't intend to be negative here, but I think at one point in time this major tool that is one of the core components in everyday work has to be brought to a really intuitive and perfectly working state. Otherwise this single issue has the potential to influence the perception of messiah in a very bad way.

Cheers! :bowdown:

[timnhe]

First of all, Thanks PMG, you are doing a good work!
Thomas, I think the same, the classic esphere edit in the other softwares is more intuitive and handy. Will be a good feature, if this option it will possible ... :thumbsup:

Whats happen with the 'Animate inmediate' ¿...?, it´s lost? :sad:

I have one more problem, (not in this particular version) :

When I zoom out in the perspective view, the viewport it distorts, as when you put very lower values in the camera zoom (eye fish lens effect). it is normal? or only affects to my?

Thanks!

[opera]

Hi !!

T Ha a N K K S S ! ! ! !
MANY T h h a n n k s ! !

You are doing a wonderfull work ! I like the frequent update !
Perfect, continue like this, I can't wait for the next update ;) ...
My refresh button on PMG Web page is burning :)

Cheers!
Opera
Mourad K.

[maks]

First of all, Thanks PMG, you are doing a good work!
Thomas, I think the same, the classic esphere edit in the other softwares is more intuitive and handy. Will be a good feature, if this option it will possible ... :thumbsup:

Whats happen with the 'Animate inmediate' ¿...?, it´s lost? :sad:

I have one more problem, (not in this particular version) :

When I zoom out in the perspective view, the viewport it distorts, as when you put very lower values in the camera zoom (eye fish lens effect). it is normal? or only affects to my?

Thanks!

That's normal from a certain zoom level on, which can occur with e.g. very large objects. In this case use the right mouse button instead of the left one, this "dollies" the camera instead of zooming it. Hope this helps.

[timnhe]

Thanks Maks, another solution that I found is to create a global null parent for all the items in the scene, and scale to reduce it before animate.

I think that the problem when use the dolly whit big objects, is that is very difficult to center the object in the screen, because each time when I press the 'a' key, my object is center in the screen in a big scale and I have to do de dolly once and again ... :shrug:

Regards

[DMack]

I'm with Maks on the Dynamic parenting in place. A must for CA.

Soooo looking forward to getting on with some CA.

[Taron333]

WOW?!?! What's going on here?!? HAahha....amazing! Well, I'm very happy to see all the replies and thanks! Means a lot to us! It's just great to see that much appreciation!

SO, now...what else, aha...Focus jumping in the material editor? That shouldn't happen now, I havn't....oh crap! Now that's entertaining...it doesn't show that it still jumps and you could continue editing just fine, but it actually kinda still does jump...I just kept deleting nodes and it actually deleted the material underneath...hohoho....whotta?! Great, I see 2.4d is already getting it's first entry! Man...sorry. We'll figure it out asap!

As for the fish-eye when zooming out, use "[" and "]" to scale the grid-size in and out! That'll take care of that, you'll see. Zoom is always zoom and it's relative to the grid-size, which acts as a dimension!

Hmmm...edit sphere has changed quite a bit, that's true. Some of it requires a little getting used to, but overall it acts a lot nicer. The biggest thing that I'm not fully sure about is the on one hand great new trade, that object handles, like bone-length for instance, have priority over the edit sphere handles. But the same thing can lead to some confusion in some situations as well. It's a wicked trade-off and I'm not yet perfectly sure, what will be both best to handle in terms of visibility and interaction speed. Another thing to still keep ironing out. But overall I'm getting very much used to it already and get a good flow going.

BUT...hmmm...more alternative editing handle styles....hmmm, hmmm, hmmm.....I do think it's a good idea. Why not keep customizing things like that. Every single one will have it's lovers and haters, there's no doubt, but it's a great thing to have a chance to choose. I perfectly agree! Not sure what it takes, but we most certainly will look into it and how elegantly it can be made to fit in. :thumbsup:

Double click selects whole name, no way to click inside of the string, yes, I noticed that, too. I apologize to our guys, that I failed to mention that, either. Wasn't sure what's up with that. That's another great one for 2.4d (haha, already collecting...what in the world!). But great! :banghead: (ohmm...wrong smily) :wip: (yeah, that's the one!)


I FREAKING HATE that COORDSYS stupid crap thing there...I always have it deactivated...no idea why I can't convince us to just toss the damn thing, but well....in case you run into any funkiness, you probably have it turned on...just turn the darn thing off by clicking on it! I have it off by default, so I'm always a little confused when I read a post about issues with moving things around. Start messiah, Turn it off, exit again...should be in the config then. I (as in AY <loudly announcing>) shall apologize for our wicked decision to have it in the first place. I think I never once ever used or needed to use it....but someone out there must like it?! :argh: :cry:

(same goes for animate immediate to me, which I really don't like either, but it should still work...no idea, though...I'm not using it!)

Dynamic parenting in place...hmmm...don't we have that in setup? I know that stuff is always a bit more wacky than it seems... :hmm: ...we'll revisit that! Good idea! :lightbulb

Alright, so altogether...I'm very happy about the general reception from all of you and we're on the ball and we're staying on the ball, too! It's a powerful roll and it's a fun one, too! You have to imagine and should understand how much fun it is for us, really, to see how things boost into place. It continues to be a piece by piece procedure, but this is just exactly how it works! With all your help....see what's happening! Just fantastic! SOOOOO:

THANK YOU!!! :love:

[DMack]

Quickie. I'm on 5.4 (was going to go for 5.4b but then 5.4c came out...then it seems 5.4d might be in the works....) Can someone confirm or deny (a Monsters inc line!) if this has gone in 5.4c.

Blank scene, add some KF's for the camera. Now select all the dope master cells using the rectangle lasso. Does it select ALL of them or does it, like at my end, miss out one?

[maks]

I FREAKING HATE that COORDSYS stupid crap thing there...I always have it deactivated...no idea why I can't convince us to just toss the damn thing, but well....in case you run into any funkiness, you probably have it turned on...just turn the darn thing off by clicking on it! I have it off by default, so I'm always a little confused when I read a post about issues with moving things around. Start messiah, Turn it off, exit again...should be in the config then. I (as in AY <loudly announcing>) shall apologize for our wicked decision to have it in the first place. I think I never once ever used or needed to use it....but someone out there must like it?! :argh: :cry:

Well, I actually use the new coord system, don't know, just got used to it, and I find it clearer what you do because the edit sphere alignes to the chosen coord system, which is not the case with the old system. But maybe that's just me :shrug::D

As for having seperate edit spheres for translation, rotation and scale, I'm for it (as I already said on the beta list some time ago) - I'd vote for having it at least optional :)

On a more general note: actually I don't use the new edit sphere, mainly because of some wacky behaviour that I noticed in some complex rigs. I'll try to put together a simplified scene if I can reproduce it... But also because the new edit sphere doesn't let you LMB select items that are behind the edit sphere in animate immediate mode, which brings me to the next point:

(same goes for animate immediate to me, which I really don't like either, but it should still work...no idea, though...I'm not using it!)

I *LOVE* the animate immediate mode, and I use it all the time!!! So, please keep it! :D

Dynamic parenting in place...hmmm...don't we have that in setup? I know that stuff is always a bit more wacky than it seems... :hmm: ...we'll revisit that! Good idea! :lightbulb

Errr, I didn't talk about the setup parenting, but about a dynamic parenting function in animate mode, such as the one that already exists, but which keeps the object in place while switching parents. There was a thread on this subject some time ago: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=230486 - some people tried to make such a plugin, but no one succeeded so far. Apparently such a function involves some heavy matrix conversion operations - unfortunately my programming knowledge isn't up to the task here, or I'd already had done it myself :/ Have you already used XSI? Their constraint system actually is something even more flexible: every constraint is smoothly blendable, and you have a "ConstraintCompensation" button which keeps the constrained object in place if desired, while activating/deactivating a constraint. Think of Dynamic Parenting as a Pose Constraint (MoveTo combined with Align), smoothly blendable, but the constrained object keeps it position and alignment when blending the constraint. Makes sense? :)

SOOOOOOO:
Keep up the good work guys! :D

[ThomasHelzle]

Taron: thanks for the feedback.

Good luck with finally fixing the Focus jump when deleting nodes. ;)

The focus jump in dual and quad view is really gone, even with autosave active.
So much for Lyle telling me about having gremlins in my machine for many years...
And the multiple autosaves are great too.

The edit sphere may have some lovers but it isn't efficient.
With the new rollover stuff, it can even be hard to get the center handle to stay at "m" and not jump all the time to "r".
Maybe make a poll about it?
And if you are creating something new in this area, be sure to have a look at XSI (I would be even willing to make a screen capture movie for you to show how it works).
I think I never had a situation where I was confused by moving/rotating/scaling stuff in XSI while in messiah I constantly swear... ;)

Even if it was a missunderstanding: A more "dynamic" parenting in Setup is very high on my list. Currently it is way too complicated to parent something in place. I want it as a global toggle button that either makes every parenting action "in place" or not. Not a procedure where I have to select objects in the correct order and then hit a button that I first have to access from a dropdown somewhere and that just works in Setup...
I personally never use anything else then parent in place in all my other 3D packages!

Being able to select which coordinate system you want to work in is cool and very important IMO. The implementation in messiah still isn't as intuitive as in most other tools - partly related to the overcrowded edit sphere.

I'm sure it would make sense to start with a fresh sheet of paper :arteest: and rethink the whole manipulator/coordsystem area from scratch, without the "I got used to it somehow" bit in mind. And then see what can be actually implemented in what form without killing everything else.
It is propably the most used item in a 3D package!

Thanks a lot! :wavey:

Cheers :bowdown:

[isobarxx]

As Marek said a parent in place function for animate mode would be very nice!

[Lino Grandi]

First of all, Thanks PMG, you are doing a good work!

When I zoom out in the perspective view, the viewport it distorts, as when you put very lower values in the camera zoom (eye fish lens effect). it is normal? or only affects to my?

Thanks!

I think this behavior should be changed. It should work as in Lightwave (or Maya). While working in perspective mode, I think the focal lenght should always stay fixed to a choosen value...so...zooming should be something like "moving far from a fixed point", with no focal change. It would be fine to be able to "center" an item in the viewport, and "move out" from that instead of "zoomig out", but always keeping the perspective rotation centered on the object.

That would be great for me.


(I've found out that right mouse button does the work....GREAT!)

[srt]

thanks for the update!!


possible bug, maybe? if i replace an object using 'multipy items'->'replace' 2.4c crashes. 2.4b works just fine. i tried this with different scenes and different objects.

thanks

[Taron333]

thanks for the update!!


possible bug, maybe? if i replace an object using 'multipy items'->'replace' 2.4c crashes. 2.4b works just fine. i tried this with different scenes and different objects.

thanks

From what I gather we have found the problem already. Should be solved in the next version. We have already found and solved a few other "minor" things, so the next version is already starting to become another fine release, haha.... :wip:

I have right at this second a great anger against bugs, especially moskitos, because such a damn thing was leaving five messages all over me last night, despite the rotten blood I should have thanx to cigarettes and red bull to get through all the nights of working! :argh:
But as opposed to moskito protection it did a whole lot against the ones we found in messiah...pffff....I just woke up, my humor's still in alpha... :wise:

So, yeah, should be fine in the next round! Thanx for mentioning, though! :buttrock:

[DMack]

Can you replace objects another way (without the multiply block) to avoid this crash. I was just about to upgrade to ver c to get some nice fixes but this bug stops me from doing so!

[DMack]

I've noticed that the subdiv level is not stored per item in a scene - is that how it is meant to be? I don't necessarily want all my items to be set to the same subdiv level. When I set them and then re-load my scene, they go back to the default level 3....

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.